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  1. #101
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    The real question is...will ebikes be available in all three wheel sizes? Also, how will this be dealt w/r to Strava segments? Will there be ebike segs and regular bike segs? As they long as they work these 2 issues out, I am ok with.
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  2. #102
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    I'm really surprised we haven't seen more mopeds on MTB trails. They have gotten cheaper with low priced tank kits and kits to put a weedwhip engine on a bike. You can probably convert a bicycle to gas power for as little at $100.

    I've seen plenty of these on the road, and quite a few on no motorized vehicle rail trails. Some guys are smart and use them to cover lots of ground between other users, when they switch off the engine and coast on by, only to start up again after passing.

    Most of the time they are converted cruisers or cheap walmart full suspension MTBs.

    I have never seen a moped on an MTB trail.

    If this new generation of e-bike was selling for $500, I might be concerned, but I think we're safe for at least another couple of years.
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  3. #103
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    I want an E bike so I can feel dope like Lance
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  4. #104
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    We have a problem with dirt bikes on the trails, but I've never seen a an electric bike or mtb with a 2 stroke. I do see them on the street because I live in a rich beach community on the north shore of long Island where people have plenty of disposable income.. But honestly I just don't see 5k bikes in the trails, nevermind electric ones. Maybe that will change, but i don't see how a dude pedaling less is going to affect me in any way. If i had a front motor on my fat bike, would that impact the trail system at all because I'm pedaling less up hills? Seriously I don't get the controversy. I wish whatever company makes these things would pay for my indifference, where do I sign up?

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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Good article. I think it's awesome that the editor of Bicycling Magazine stepped down because they were insistent on promoting e-bikes, hats off to Jimmy Mcllvain for sticking to his principals!


    The A.S.S. is right on target IMO, I've been saying this in one form or another since first hearing about these electric motorcycles with pedals attached to them-
    It was mountain Bike Action, just to keep it straight.....but yeah, Jimmy Mac shows some backbone there. When you look at MBA's parent company, Hi-Torque Publications, you get that MBA is put out by a company that was first and foremost a moto magazine publisher to begin with, so their slide into pushing e-bikes is kinda not surprising.

    What blows me away is the article in Dirt Rag.............a supposedly grass-roots, 'core' cycling mag. They end their article, their last paragraph (which usually summarizes or states outright any editorial intent on the part of the magazine) with this quote from none other than Gary Fisher, arguably the "father" of mountain biking:

    "It takes 10 years for just about anything to be accepted". He goes on to mention the decade it took for suspension forks, full suspension, different frame materials to be accepted.

    Then, he is quoted in a way to at least infer that he is all gung-ho for e-bikes: "Just relax and hit it right on time, and your'e gonna hit the early adapters at the beginning. There are going to be more people having fun, there are going to be more people buying our bikes! This whole sport is going to be bigger! I think it's going to be great".

    Not a word about all of the concerns regarding access issues, as if everything will just sort itself out.

    Yeah. Just like it did for Gary and crew up there in Marin.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    Not a word about all of the concerns regarding access issues, as if everything will just sort itself out.
    What are the access issues? instead of trying to portray them as motorcycles you could do the opposite and portray them as bicycles and create the same acceptance as for non-assisted mountainbikes. In europe they are bicycles according to the law when they have <250W and assist <25kph also they shouldnt be able to ride by themselves but only when pedalling power is applied. The bikes that can ride without pedalling or assist up to 45kph are considered mopeds and need insurance and helmets and probably are not allowed in the forests. But in the netherlands almost all forests are government owned and are open to all hikers and cyclists and thus also the pedelec bikes.

    The point remains that the pedelec bikes (<250W and <15mph) cant do more then a mountainbike. The only difference is that they can be faster uphill or on slower sections but you dont suddenly beat everyone on a track or wreck a track (250W isnt enough for that).

    And by the way I dont work in the bicycle industry or have any financial interest in pedelec bikes.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by carverboy View Post
    A bike with a motor is not a MTB plain and simple. Have fun riding them at one of the OHV trails,but don't ever think you will legally ride a MTB trail!
    I'm pretty complacent when it comes to most social/political issues.
    Having said that I will fight tooth and nail to keep you off MTB trails. I have a strong suspicion many others will step forward to do the same.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyvG View Post
    What are the access issues? instead of trying to portray them as motorcycles you could do the opposite and portray them as bicycles and create the same acceptance as for non-assisted mountainbikes. In europe they are bicycles according to the law when they have <250W and assist <25kph also they shouldnt be able to ride by themselves but only when pedalling power is applied. The bikes that can ride without pedalling or assist up to 45kph are considered mopeds and need insurance and helmets and probably are not allowed in the forests. But in the netherlands almost all forests are government owned and are open to all hikers and cyclists and thus also the pedelec bikes.

    The point remains that the pedelec bikes (<250W and <15mph) cant do more then a mountainbike. The only difference is that they can be faster uphill or on slower sections but you dont suddenly beat everyone on a track or wreck a track (250W isnt enough for that).

    nd by the way I dont work in the bicycle industry or have any financial interest in pedelec bikes.
    Access issues for bicycles on trails vary a lot region to region. Where I live in San Diego county, mere human-powered bikes are blocked from more than half the singletrack trails in many areas, and all the singletrack in others.

    Adding a motor-assist bike to the mix would kill access for us.

    Try this: ask the Sierra Club why they oppose bicycles on all of the PCT, not just the designated 'wilderness' sections, and on all trails, in general. After they tell you why, maybe you will get it.

    But just for yucks, while yer at it, ask them if they dig your cool new e-mountain bike.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclelicious View Post
    Manufacturers won't make them if people won't buy them ... the reality is people are buying them.
    Very good statement there.

    This same kind of situation occurred with the slopes (skiing/snow boarding) surfing (surfers, long boarders, tow in surfing, SUP surfing, body boarding) and skateboarding (to name a few). We can't avoid it, it will come. Haters and friction will only fragment what we love to do. Working together like a neighborhood I think is the only way. I personally don't agree with having them on the trails but if it gets people out riding isn't that what we are all trying to do (get out and away from the stresses of life and enjoy the outdoors)? If we hate them (the bikes) and the people (just because they're riding them), then right away there'll be rift and seems that won't help anyone. Remember, many of us are responsible mountain bikers but we often associated with "those irresponsible, reckless guys". How does that feel??? Instead, what if we all just start saying "why can't we all just get along" and treat them like the long lost cousins that just think a little different?

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyvG View Post
    What are the access issues? instead of trying to portray them as motorcycles you could do the opposite and portray them as bicycles and create the same acceptance as for non-assisted mountainbikes. In europe they are bicycles according to the law when they have <250W and assist <25kph also they shouldnt be able to ride by themselves but only when pedalling power is applied. The bikes that can ride without pedalling or assist up to 45kph are considered mopeds and need insurance and helmets and probably are not allowed in the forests. But in the netherlands almost all forests are government owned and are open to all hikers and cyclists and thus also the pedelec bikes.

    The point remains that the pedelec bikes (<250W and <15mph) cant do more then a mountainbike. The only difference is that they can be faster uphill or on slower sections but you dont suddenly beat everyone on a track or wreck a track (250W isnt enough for that).

    And by the way I dont work in the bicycle industry or have any financial interest in pedelec bikes.
    Let them ride them in the EU. Let them ride them in the Netherlands and where there are not so many access issues as in the USA. They have a motor. Not allowed where I ride in MA. Butt out of my riding areas where access is not always a sure thing. We don't want them here, GET IT ?

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Let them ride them in the EU. Let them ride them in the Netherlands and where there are not so many access issues as in the USA. They have a motor. Not allowed where I ride in MA. Butt out of my riding areas where access is not always a sure thing. We don't want them here, GET IT ?
    I think from reading some of the posts in this thread that there is not much awareness of how tenuous trail access is in some places, like here, in San Diego county.

    We have a very delicate situation here, where ALL other trail user groups are tolerating bikes on multi-use trails, but just barely. Motorized bikes would be the nail in the access coffin.

    I personally have zero problem with the concept, but I know that it would kill bike access here if/when these e-bikes start showing up on local trails.

  12. #112
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    Re: Save us from the enemy....

    The issue in Utah is traffic. Park City on the weekend is a nightmare with hikers and bikers lined up in both directions on a single track trail. E-bikes will exacerbate this problem by an order of magnitude and the other user groups will have all the ammo they need to get bikes banned.
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  13. #113
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    Fact is, these new "assisted" mountain bikes are just another way to help the overweight and lazy world "participate" when they shouldn't be able to unless they're willing to do it like it should, under their own power. Don't get me wrong, I think that these new electric, hybrid, whatever you want to call them bikes are fantastic, for what they ere originally designed for, people who commute/use a bike as transport, on roads and gravel roads, they DO NOT belong on trails, unless specifically designed for them.
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  14. #114
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    The leg bone's connected to the Cash Bone!

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmats View Post
    ... but if it gets people out riding isn't that what we are all trying to do (get out and away from the stresses of life and enjoy the outdoors)?
    Actually, no. I don't want more people out on the trails, thank you.
    If I wanted to socialize I'd go to the bar. If I want to be surrounded by people I don't know, I'll go to a mall. I ride to get away from people and the fitness that I have earned over the years allows me to pedal the f- away from them.
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  16. #116
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    Watch out for the Grey Hairs

    Jayem you are so right. I've been riding for 20 plus years and hope to get in another 20 or so. By that time I'll be in my 80s and will accept any assistance that is available. We're all pretty hard core now but there comes an inevitable decline as we age. We age at different rates and the more we exercise the more we delay it but it comes to get everyone. I for one have no qualms about any technological advantage I can add to my bike. I already have Disc brakes, TALAS (Travel adjustable) fork, Dropper Seat post, Sticky rubber tires just to name a few. You bet I'll be out there rippin it up

  17. #117
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    Deth to muthafukkin E-bikes!
    If I see somebody riding one I'm-a fuk 'im up!

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish View Post
    Actually, no. I don't want more people out on the trails, thank you.
    If I wanted to socialize I'd go to the bar. If I want to be surrounded by people I don't know, I'll go to a mall. I ride to get away from people and the fitness that I have earned over the years allows me to pedal the f- away from them.
    That's cool. Everyone's got their own agenda. Unless you own your own land and have your own trails, we all have to share our trails. I'm with you in that I do believe in earning the rides through the climbs. However, by saying "no. I don't want more people out on the trails, thank you." isn't going to help because there was a day someone said that years ago when you and I started riding and adding to the traffic. It's unfortunate and it will happen with or without e-bikes. It's inevitable with the rise in population, the increase in congestion and the need and want for many to get an "escape" with the addition of technology. It all comes down to responsible use of technology. Creating a rift between "us" and "them" as I see it will only make things worse. Want it or not want it is one thing, my concern is if we hate, it'll only make things worse.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmats View Post
    That's cool. Everyone's got their own agenda. Unless you own your own land and have your own trails, we all have to share our trails. I'm with you in that I do believe in earning the rides through the climbs. However, by saying "no. I don't want more people out on the trails, thank you." isn't going to help because there was a day someone said that years ago when you and I started riding and adding to the traffic. It's unfortunate and it will happen with or without e-bikes. It's inevitable with the rise in population, the increase in congestion and the need and want for many to get an "escape" with the addition of technology. It all comes down to responsible use of technology. Creating a rift between "us" and "them" as I see it will only make things worse. Want it or not want it is one thing, my concern is if we hate, it'll only make things worse.
    If we want the hikers and equestrians to continue tolerating us we need to create that rift. I mean if we MTBers are having this debate about e-bikes on the trails, how do you think the other user groups are going to handle it? They already see the bicycle as an impure machine that allows us lazy mountain bikers access to wilderness we would not be able to reach on foot. I know it's hypocritical of them considering equestrians enslave another living organism to do the work, but they have the upper hand because "they were here first". We've made many deals with many devils and the terms of the contract are that we do more than our fair share of trail work, yield to everyone, and power our own way uncomplemented.
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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    If we want the hikers and equestrians to continue tolerating us we need to create that rift. I mean if we MTBers are having this debate about e-bikes on the trails, how do you think the other user groups are going to handle it? They already see the bicycle as an impure machine that allows us lazy mountain bikers access to wilderness we would not be able to reach on foot. I know it's hypocritical of them considering equestrians enslave another living organism to do the work, but they have the upper hand because "they were here first". We've made many deals with many devils and the terms of the contract are that we do more than our fair share of trail work, yield to everyone, and power our own way uncomplemented.
    ^^^ All true. Plus, now that there are several credible evidence-based studies on trail tread impact that have shown that our soft rubber, human-powered tires impact the trail surface no more , and sometimes less, than boot soles and always have far less impact than horse hooves, the last thing we need is the introduction of this type of powered 'bicycle' .

    We mtb riders have plenty of haters out there already, and they are basically at the end of the line when it comes to rationale for opposing our presence.

    The promotion of powered bicycles accessing those same trails would for sure be seized upon as another opportunity to lump all "bicycles" together, and make for another attempt to ban us all from the trails.

    Who knows...next time, the haters might just win.

    The more I think about it, the more I think e-bikes are a really good idea for pavement commuters, and a really bad idea for multiple use trails.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    The more I think about it, the more I think e-bikes are a really good idea for pavement commuters


    I'm not so sure about that either. Aside from inclement weather I think traffic danger is the #1 reason people don't cycle to work, and because e-bikes can't keep pace with traffic they're no better, or safer than bicycles in that regard.

    The U.S. needs to (but won't) invest in infrastructure that supports cyclists, and maybe even potential e-cyclists.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    The U.S. needs to (but won't) invest in infrastructure that supports cyclists, and maybe even potential e-cyclists.
    ^So true.

    I live in a fairly cycling friendly city and the animosity towards people on bicycles (not necessarily cyclists) is remarkable. I see it in the paper every day.

    I think an e-bike could be a way for those with limited fitness to get out on a bike, but if with one, in most cities in the US, you have your work cut out for you.

    1. A route with minimal traffic can be pretty tough. It takes some mapping and work. Have you ever looked at a particular intersection and thought to yourself "how the hell would you ride a bike through this and not get yourself killed?" Commuting really gains you a perspective.
    2. Your destination may not have a way to safely store your bike. Ortlieb bags aren't cheap, and if they get stolen, they are even MORE expensive.
    3. Your destination may not have a way to change/clean up. Some places to, but most do not.
    4. Respect/courtesy from drivers can be hit or miss. Some states/drivers are quite accommodating but I've heard some real horror stories.

    So if an e-bike is an enabler to those who want to commute, bravo. Otherwise, as others have stated, our relationship with the "entitled" trail users is pretty tenuous. Ebikes could really endanger it. Folks won't differentiate between ebikes and non-ebikes. They are bikes, and in some cases, they already hate us.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmats View Post
    That's cool. Everyone's got their own agenda. Unless you own your own land and have your own trails, we all have to share our trails. I'm with you in that I do believe in earning the rides through the climbs. However, by saying "no. I don't want more people out on the trails, thank you." isn't going to help because there was a day someone said that years ago when you and I started riding and adding to the traffic. It's unfortunate and it will happen with or without e-bikes. It's inevitable with the rise in population, the increase in congestion and the need and want for many to get an "escape" with the addition of technology. It all comes down to responsible use of technology. Creating a rift between "us" and "them" as I see it will only make things worse. Want it or not want it is one thing, my concern is if we hate, it'll only make things worse.
    I'm fairly certain I don't have an agenda.

    You are correct though, all the trails I ride are multi use and I happily share those trails. Regardless of how I may come off here, I'm one smiley MF'er on trail in regards to other users on or off bikes. But to assume I, or others "want" more trail users is hilarious. To assume that I, or others want to encourage more trail use or the imagined conflict that would surely result by inviting another form of highly questionable user is mind boggling.

    Have I seen a huge increase in the number of riders on trail since the early 90’s when I started, yup. Is it inevitable that we see an increase in the number of trail users in the years to come, probably. I will begrudgingly accept that (not that I have much of a say… ) in the form of users already allowed on multi-use trails. Even considering and accepting that I added to the number of trail users back in the day it doesn’t change my mind on motorized vs. non-motorized trail use.

    I’ve got to add that I’m highly skeptical of the masses or ”cyclists” being able to use technology responsibly. IMO, part of the “escape” is escaping technology. That being said, if folks would like to use motor assisted cycles there are plenty of jeep trails and OVH trails that allow you to get into the backcountry, have at it.

    Lastly, I think by smoothing over the “rift” between e-cyclists and mountain bikers you are automatically creating a rift between “us” and those other user groups that are already established. That, IMO will jeopardize access.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carverboy View Post
    A bike with a motor is not a MTB plain and simple.
    I'm pretty complacent when it comes to most social/political issues.
    Having said that I will fight tooth and nail to keep you off MTB trails. I have a strong suspicion many others will step forward to do the same.
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  24. #124
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    I heard from a few peeps that the last Interbike, the buzz were the ebikes and Trek or Felt was leading the way...

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    Re: Save us from the enemy....

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott forty G. View Post
    I heard from a few peeps that the last Interbike, the buzz were the ebikes and Trek or Felt was leading the way...
    Not surprising at all. Mountain bikes are as good as they are gonna get. The next logical step from the industry perspective is to throw on a motor. Revenue growth continues and everyone gets to keep their jobs, beards, and flannel.
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  26. #126
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    Yup, and then the fat and unfit get to go pretend to be the next Vandeham, Bearclaw, Peat, Graves etc and either injures someone else, themselves or have a massive heart attack and block the trail, either way costing the tax paying public some form of grief

    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    Not surprising at all. Mountain bikes are as good as they are gonna get. The next logical step from the industry perspective is to throw on a motor. Revenue growth continues and everyone gets to keep their jobs, beards, and flannel.
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    My main concern is that Strava KOMs being tainted by E-bike riders. They need their own E-Strava. I have no hatred towards the E-bike I would love to give one a try. I know that if I were to show up for my local group ride with one, most of my freinds would laugh at me then ask to ride it. Is it to late to trademark E-Strava?

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tricker Joe View Post
    My main concern is that Strava KOMs being tainted by E-bike riders.
    That's your big concern...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tricker Joe View Post
    They need their own E-Strava.
    ...and your big fix?

    Thankfully there are well-connected and reasonable human beings in this thread. E-bikes are definitely going to be something of an issue. Where I am the local advocacy groups have denounced them and it looks like most land managers agree they are motorized vehicles. However, the industry does make a pretty penny off them. And they do open up those fat lazy people to the market. So I expect the industry to do what corporations do, try to make a buck. Instead of sticking to their morals and roots, which happens to be ****ing pedaling a goddamn bike.
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  29. #129
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    Does anyone else think e-bikes are like playing basketball on a Segway? The Segway "assists" you up and down the court but you still have to shoot the ball yourself!
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    Lot's of pride wrapped up in this thing. I'm content to watch this cookie crumble on its own.

    It's a fad at best, and is not going to jeopardize the life or trail access of mountain biking. I'm calling it now, that aside from your occasional e-bike user on some pretty mild singletrack (with whatever their reasonings/ motivation is to ride an e-bike), there will not be a sudden explosion of wild handicapped senior citizens cutting rooster tails and terrorizing pedestrians at your local trail or public land.

    E-bikes have very narrow applications and buying one grants the consumer the worst of both worlds, motorcycle and bicycle, at a price that could have paid for a high end contender in either category.


    Bottom line, this will not have nearly the impact everyone thinks it will have. I feel like what most people are actually afraid of is feeling invalidated by a machine that makes breathing hard obsolete.

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    No matter what happens with e-bikes, those who ride under their own power will always have stronger bodies. IMO after the good feel this is the best benefit of mountain biking.

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    I've yet to encounter somebody on an e-bike on any of our local multi-use trails in San diego but mtb access is continually under pressure here, just for keeping what we do have open.

    Again, I'm pretty sure, that if e-mtb's start showing up o our local trails, that what the bike-haters will do is to utilize the 'trend' to attack access for ALL bicycles.

    I'm hoping that I just will never see one out there at all. That would be the best-case scenario, IMO.

    What I would do, if I was a bike-hater, is go to my local Seeairra club high council, and in a secret meeting, acquire funding to purchase one of those 4500 watt, 50 mph, 8" travel FS rigs, and put on a black full-face with reflective visor and engage in Sunday AM terrorist trail activities.

    Kinda like what the club did to sabotage the Barstow to 'Vegas off-road race.

    Theyr'e certainly NOT too "ethical" to try something like that.

    In fact, I'm a bit surprised they haven't tried it, already!

  33. #133
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    Ebikes?....Meh
    Lazy fat people?......with out my mtb, there go I.
    Let's save the hate for a more worthy target.
    Consciousness, that annoying time between bike rides.

  34. #134
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    So what is the difference between using a motor to get up the hill, and using a ski-lift? (I have no desire to do either).

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by andytiedye View Post
    So what is the difference between using a motor to get up the hill, and using a ski-lift? (I have no desire to do either).
    When you're on the ski lift you're not on the trail.
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  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by andytiedye View Post
    So what is the difference between using a motor to get up the hill, and using a ski-lift? (I have no desire to do either).
    The difference would be, to migrate that metaphor over to our issue, that using the ski lift would deny you the right to ski on the mountain.
    That's exactly the issue here....not whether I care about fat people on e-bikes.
    I care about losing access to trails because of ANYBODY riding those trails on a motorized bike. Anti-bike groups like the Sierra Club would jump on this like a mountain lion on Bambi.
    That's the reality with trail access, at least in San Diego California.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Miller View Post
    Jayem you are so right. I've been riding for 20 plus years and hope to get in another 20 or so. By that time I'll be in my 80s and will accept any assistance that is available. We're all pretty hard core now but there comes an inevitable decline as we age. We age at different rates and the more we exercise the more we delay it but it comes to get everyone. I for one have no qualms about any technological advantage I can add to my bike. I already have Disc brakes, TALAS (Travel adjustable) fork, Dropper Seat post, Sticky rubber tires just to name a few. You bet I'll be out there rippin it up
    All those things you mention are part of a natural evolution of mountain biking. Motors are not. They are antithetical to the sport.

  38. #138
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    There was another thread about this very recently, and my opinion hasn't changed. If it has a motor, whether it's electric, gasoline, or nuclear powered, then it's now a motorized vehicle and belongs on trails designated for such use. And there are plenty of those trails around already. Combining motorized and non motorized vehicles on trails is a recipe for disaster. If you don't think so, go search the news articles the past few months on how many road cyclists have been killed by cars. Now, I realize there's a big difference between the two as far as mass is concerned, but an e bike roosting along at 45mph while a pedaling rider is struggling to make 10mph is just not a good idea. Again, my opinion and nothing more.

    As far as being disabled; I'm pretty sure this guy could have pulled that card had he wanted to. Instead, he rode a longer, much more grueling loop in this years Tour De' Franklin than I did. And I never once heard him say he needed some batteries to help him out.


  39. #139
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    I have not been riding on a regular basis since having children appear in my life three years ago, and it's been about that long since I posted here on MTBR.

    I finally started checking out the local bike shops again, and one of them had the Haibike e-assist mtb available to ride.

    My opinion on this topic is as follows: an irresponsible rider, is an irresponsible rider--regardless of what bike they ride.

    I know that some of you guys make it a black and white issue, motor or no motor. Well, think about all the other innovations that have happened to mountain bikes: suspension, disc brakes, lighter/stronger materials, etc... They all allow you to ride with more comfort/control, which allows you to ride faster/farther.

    I'll leave it at that for the time being, and post a more thoughtful response when I'm not on a tablet.

  40. #140
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    ^^^ Yes ,it is a black and white issue. All these other innovations do not involve a motor. You said it yourself, " allow you to ride" . Not activate a battery.

  41. #141
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    Ebikes that require you to pedal and only amplify your torque are legally still bicycles in Europe and some us states. There is a big difference between the low power pedelecs and a higher power throttle operated "bike" which are legally mopeds or even motorcycles.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    ^^^ Yes ,it is a black and white issue. All these other innovations do not involve a motor. You said it yourself, " allow you to ride" . Not activate a battery.
    Exactly. How is this even in question?

    Has a motor - motorized.
    Doesn't have a motor - non-motorized.

    Not really all that complicated.
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  43. #143
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    It gets complicated when you look at it logically. We have programs that allow handicapped people to use motorized vehicles in some of our trails here. That means gas. I think with electric they would fit the environment better because they won't be making all the noise smoke and trail damage. Maybe I'm stupid but pedal assistance and not needing to pedal seem like completely different things.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    It gets complicated when you look at it logically. We have programs that allow handicapped people to use motorized vehicles in some of our trails here. That means gas. I think with electric they would fit the environment better because they won't be making all the noise smoke and trail damage. Maybe I'm stupid but pedal assistance and not needing to pedal seem like completely different things.
    Sorry I fail to see why or how this is an issue of handicap or not. There is no "right" to being able to do what anyone else does. May I enter the Olympics and use an E-bike because I was not born as physically able as the other competitors? While quite frankly I could care less if someone uses one of these jokes on trails I use, if someone is so disabled they cant pedal themselves up a trail how the hell are they planning on pushing these tanks through the technical sections? This whole argument is disingenuous.... Most of us fit and able body people have an issue unclipping or getting our own feet down in time to stave off a fall or injury, elderly and disabled ... just strap them to trike and push them off a cliff for all the good a motor will do them.

  45. #145
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    Oh come on. What if I don't have a lot of time and can't hit the trail that often but want to go out with my fit friends that ride 3 to 5 days a week. I could never keep up on a regular bike, is it fair that I get left behind just because I don't have time to keep in shape? Shouldn't I be able to toss a couple hundred watts onto my pedal stroke so I can hang with the fast group? Seriously no one wants to get dropped or left to ride with the beginners just because they have gained a few pounds and lost their fitness.

    Please note that I used the sarcasm font. But it is an argument that I could see selling some of these things.

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyWilliams View Post
    ...Please note that I used the sarcasm font....
    I have for years been trying to get a universal sarcasm font created.... by the way Comic Sans is the "hipster" font not sarcasm... but +1 for effort...

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    ^^^ Yes ,it is a black and white issue. All these other innovations do not involve a motor. You said it yourself, " allow you to ride" . Not activate a battery.
    I think it is rather simplistic to think of this issue as "black or white."

    I think you may have failed to understand my post. I was liking the non-throttle, pedal-assist models to the other big innovations in mountain biking.

    My fully suspended 5" travel "trail" bike could easily "allow" me to exceed 30+ mph on more than a few downhills around my area. That same bike has nice, powerful, easily modulated hydraulic dis brakes that could easily "allow" me to bleed off all that speed and slow down to a pedestrian 5 mph in a couple of seconds.

    Now if I was riding my fully rigid, circa 1993 chromoly steel mtb down that same trail, I'd have to really work, maybe even scare myself, to get past 20 mph on that same stretch.

    Would you ban long travel suspension and disc brakes because they make it easier to potentially attain an "irresponsible" speed on the trail?

  48. #148
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    ^^^^ You're in CA? Correct? The riders there have even more trail/land access issues have we have here in MA and New England. It is all about the motor. The areas we pedal clearly state no motor vehicles allowed. Period. They have already banned them in CA. What are you not getting? I ride rigid singlespeed, old school 26ers, fat bikes and my new enduro 29er. They all are pedal powered only, with no motor. How quickly will the no wheeled trail d bags lump us all together, mt bikes, ebikes, electric motorcycles and regular trail rippers with gas spewing 50 hp all together? There is a storm coming. Are you watching what's happening? My mt bike organization has been fighting for equal trail access for all users. That is hikers and mt bikers should have the same rights to use the same trails, not with motors. Out.

  49. #149
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    It'll become clearer and clearer who in the bike industry is simply interested in the bottom line and who genuinely cares about the integrity of the sport. As a consumer, I will show my support to those companies that care about mountain biking, and completely boycott those that start down the road of E-bike/motorcycles. Trek, Scott or whoever will not get another dime from me.

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    It gets complicated when you look at it logically. We have programs that allow handicapped people to use motorized vehicles in some of our trails here. That means gas. I think with electric they would fit the environment better because they won't be making all the noise smoke and trail damage. Maybe I'm stupid but pedal assistance and not needing to pedal seem like completely different things.
    If they were strictly used for handicapped access, I wouldn't have a problem with that. I'd consider people that use them without a need to be just like those that steal handicapped parking spaces though. D-bags.
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