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  1. #26
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    Too each their own I guess but I ever see one on the trail I won't show the rider any respect. I show all riders the same respect, as well as other trail users but some a** clown comes out on one of those, im just going to point and laugh. I have works my tail off for over 2 yrs to loose 100lbs so far and learn to ride properly, and love the hell outta it. I know half what we are going to see is obese teenage/college age WOW players riding these damn things. Another thing of making tech to make and keep ppl fat and lazy.
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  2. #27
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    I think we mountain bikers should really distance ourselves from these ebikes. Make it clear they another new separate user class on the trails that are totally different from pedal powered bikes. I just see the anti-bike forces trying to lump ebikes in with mountain bikes and try to get us banned from more trails, or at least not open more trails to us. It is not a bicycle, it is a motorized vehicle, totally different and seperate from mountain bikes - has to be emphasized.

  3. #28
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    Where I ride, I think it could totally be fun to get some big air on the logs and stuff but since I ride for fitness, it would be counter productive. I saw a guy with his son on a trail and he had one of those razer mini electric dirt bike type things. The kid looked like he was having fun. I didn't kick it over and slash his tires with my Tanto, i just went around them. It really wasn't that big of a deal and I don't think he was doing any trail damage... I could see those adult electric dirt bikes, but that's just a dirt bike with an electric motor. What's the concern with the ebikes really? Trail damage? I don't see how, they don't have the power or weight to make the ruts that the 2 strokers can do. They aren't any larger, they are fast enough to stay in front of you... I don't see the concern. Can someone explain the hate?

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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    Where I ride, I think it could totally be fun to get some big air on the logs and stuff but since I ride for fitness, it would be counter productive. I saw a guy with his son on a trail and he had one of those razer mini electric dirt bike type things. The kid looked like he was having fun. I didn't kick it over and slash his tires with my Tanto, i just went around them. It really wasn't that big of a deal and I don't think he was doing any trail damage... I could see those adult electric dirt bikes, but that's just a dirt bike with an electric motor. What's the concern with the ebikes really? Trail damage? I don't see how, they don't have the power or weight to make the ruts that the 2 strokers can do. They aren't any larger, they are fast enough to stay in front of you... I don't see the concern. Can someone explain the hate?


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    Good discussion here
    Opinion: A Secret Trail and an Argument Against E-Bikes - Pinkbike
    There is a thread in general discussion going on.

    There is no hate - mopeds are fun and soon all motorcycles will be electric. But they should be used on motocross trails
    Concern for mountain bikes is loss of access to trails we worked so hard to get. There is no way to check what moped you are riding. People will modify their mopeds immediately to be more powerful. So it has to be black and white. No motorized devices on mountain bike trails
    D

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    I'm so glad those things aren't allowed on the trails I ride.
    So what trails are you referring to ? What location and jurisdiction ? very curious to know
    fat old man ... fueled by Mexican pastries....

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    Where I ride, I think it could totally be fun to get some big air on the logs and stuff but since I ride for fitness, it would be counter productive. I saw a guy with his son on a trail and he had one of those razer mini electric dirt bike type things. The kid looked like he was having fun. I didn't kick it over and slash his tires with my Tanto, i just went around them. It really wasn't that big of a deal and I don't think he was doing any trail damage... I could see those adult electric dirt bikes, but that's just a dirt bike with an electric motor. What's the concern with the ebikes really? Trail damage? I don't see how, they don't have the power or weight to make the ruts that the 2 strokers can do. They aren't any larger, they are fast enough to stay in front of you... I don't see the concern. Can someone explain the hate?

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    No hate, I just don't want to advocate for motorcycle use on existing trails. I also don't think motorcycle riders should be able to piggyback on years of work mountain bikers have done to open trails for mountain bikes. If they want to advocate to ride their motorcycles on trails and try to get access that's fine by me, but it's got nothing to do with mountain biking.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    I don't care about electric bikes. They don't bother me, I don't want one... I don't think I'd care if I see one on the trail.. I dunno, they just don't make me feel anything. If people want to be lazy and take the bicycle out of mtbing so be it. Their loss.

    And about disabilities.. There are all kinds of them. You'd be surprised how many people have joint problems but can still ride a bike, but not experience the single track technical trails that we do. But now they can.

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    Joint problems are so ubiquitous it would be an insult to those with actual disabilities to call it a disability. I've ridden and raced with a guy who had only one leg and he could handle his bike on tech trails just fine without electric assistance.

    'E-bikes' are the WMD other user groups have been waiting for to get us banned everywhere.
    When the chicks at school see how gay we are, they're gonna be all over us.

  8. #33
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    I'm partially disabled in my upper body because a deteriorated shoulder joint. Some days my arm feels like it's on fire from nerve damage, other days it's at 50% strength and that's about as good as it gets. Because of the damage, it has also messed up my upper back and my other shoulder too. Just because I still have my arm, that doesn't mean it's any less debilitating. There are also disorders where this happens to all the joints, mine is from trauma but it can be caused by genetics too. It's an insult to people who are disabled in any way to compare their disabilities to other people who are disabled worse, and tell them they're not disabled at all.

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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    Joint problems are so ubiquitous it would be an insult to those with actual disabilities to call it a disability. I've ridden and raced with a guy who had only one leg and he could handle his bike on tech trails just fine without electric assistance.

    'E-bikes' are the WMD other user groups have been waiting for to get us banned everywhere.
    Let's call them what they are - motorcycles. Electric motorcycles more specifically. "ebike" is a marketing buzzword created to disguise what these things really are. They've got electric motors in them - they are motorcycles.

  10. #35
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    One of my friends got shot 5 times, 2 in the foot 2 in the leg and one in the collar bone.. He's pieced together with metal and other crap, and he goes to the gym everyday. He's built, solid muscle. You'd look at him and never know the amount of pain he's in just walking. These things happen. After they put him back together they made him a detective and he got ran over. Again they put him back together, but more pain. So just because somebody looks healthy, that has nothing to do with what they've been through. It's so close minded to assume that if you've got the limb it's 100% functional and doesn't bring pain with its existence. This dude does bike ride everyday, but in the street. He can't handle the terrain of techy trails.. Electric assist he probably could though.

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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    One of my friends got shot 5 times, 2 in the foot 2 in the leg and one in the collar bone.. He's pieced together with metal and other crap, and he goes to the gym everyday. He's built, solid muscle. You'd look at him and never know the amount of pain he's in just walking. These things happen. After they put him back together they made him a detective and he got ran over. Again they put him back together, but more pain. So just because somebody looks healthy, that has nothing to do with what they've been through. It's so close minded to assume that if you've got the limb it's 100% functional and doesn't bring pain with its existence. This dude does bike ride everyday, but in the street. He can't handle the terrain of techy trails.. Electric assist he probably could though.

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    So how is electric assist going to help your friend with the technical aspect of mountain biking? Great, now you have the power to climb a hill. That doesn't mean it will be any easier to absorb the shock of riding over boulders and roots, or give you the skill to put the bike back on line when you get knocked off it.

    Fine, e-bikes on singletrack are ok as long as you are disabled. Guess what? Now everyone who wants one just has to say "I'm totally disabled bro!"
    When the chicks at school see how gay we are, they're gonna be all over us.

  12. #37
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    I'm guessing you've never been disabled lol.. If your problems are in the pressure you have to put on your joints to move the bike, and you relieve that pressure by having electric assist, then you can use what pressure you can use on bike control.

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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    I'm guessing you've never been disabled lol.. If your problems are in the pressure you have to put on your joints to move the bike, and you relieve that pressure by having electric assist, then you can use what pressure you can use on bike control.

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    I'm not one to toss around my problems in an effort to gain support for my argument. So I'll keep them to myself.

    How does electric assist relieve pressure on the downhills? Wrist, elbows, collarbone take a lot of force on the way down.
    When the chicks at school see how gay we are, they're gonna be all over us.

  14. #39
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    But you'll throw around other people's missing legs

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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    But you'll throw around other people's missing legs

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    I did say my problems.

    Moving on, let's say you've won your argument and e-bikes are allowed on trails granted the rider is disabled. How does enforcement work? Our current system relies almost 100% on policing each other. It's easy to enforce no MTB, no hikers, no equestrians. Having to check a condition makes it almost impossible. What is a ranger going to say to someone on an e-bike whom they suspect is not truly disabled? "Excuse me sir, only those with disabilities may ride e-bikes here. I'm going to have to ask you to prove that you are disabled." Behind close doors, this discussion will be had, and the deciders will have to choose between ban them all or allow them all.
    When the chicks at school see how gay we are, they're gonna be all over us.

  16. #41
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    Re: Save us from the enemy....

    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    I did say my problems.

    Moving on, let's say you've won your argument and e-bikes are allowed on trails granted the rider is disabled. How does enforcement work? Our current system relies almost 100% on policing each other. It's easy to enforce no MTB, no hikers, no equestrians. Having to check a condition makes it almost impossible. What is a ranger going to say to someone on an e-bike whom they suspect is not truly disabled? "Excuse me sir, only those with disabilities may ride e-bikes here. I'm going to have to ask you to prove that you are disabled." Behind close doors, this discussion will be had, and the deciders will have to choose between ban them all or allow them all.
    Out here we already have exceptions for motorized bikes on some of the trails and to use them you have to get a special permit from the dec, by sending in a letter from your dr.

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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    One of my friends got shot 5 times, 2 in the foot 2 in the leg and one in the collar bone.. He's pieced together with metal and other crap, and he goes to the gym everyday. He's built, solid muscle. You'd look at him and never know the amount of pain he's in just walking. These things happen. After they put him back together they made him a detective and he got ran over. Again they put him back together, but more pain. So just because somebody looks healthy, that has nothing to do with what they've been through. It's so close minded to assume that if you've got the limb it's 100% functional and doesn't bring pain with its existence. This dude does bike ride everyday, but in the street. He can't handle the terrain of techy trails.. Electric assist he probably could though.

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    If you're friend believes in personal responsibility he shouldn't be getting in over his head in the backcountry. If a motorcycle can take him in further than he can handle, how does he get out in case of mishap? Put search & rescue at risk to bail him out? Your friend should stick to the legal trails he can physically handle. He should also try hiking and horseback riding. Honestly with the disabilities he has neither motorcycling nor mountain biking on extreme terrain sound like safe recreational choices for him.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    But you'll throw around other people's missing legs

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    Well no wonder it's missing if people are throwing them around.....

    Not very nice at all.
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  19. #44
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    Re: Save us from the enemy....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dopamine View Post
    If you're friend believes in personal responsibility he shouldn't be getting in over his head in the backcountry. If a motorcycle can take him in further than he can handle, how does he get out in case of mishap? Put search & rescue at risk to bail him out? Your friend should stick to the legal trails he can physically handle. He should also try hiking and horseback riding. Honestly with the disabilities he has neither motorcycling nor mountain biking on extreme terrain sound like safe recreational choices for him.
    I live in long Island. There is no back country lol

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  20. #45
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    Re: Save us from the enemy....

    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    I live in long Island. There is no back country lol

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    I see. A different environment entirely.

    Where I live people get rescued all the time after getting in over their heads. Or their bodies are discovered later. The penalty for failure is very high here.
    When the chicks at school see how gay we are, they're gonna be all over us.

  21. #46
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    As is such with many things, I feel the negatives possibilities, outweight the positive ones. I think it'd be fine for someone who is disabled (in whatever form) to take an e-bike and go ride some local loops. That would be great for the sport. It also makes sense to me that such an indidvidual may have a hard time on more technical trails due to added weight and their disability--this instance wouldn't bother anyone. The idea of these things zooming up and down single track frustrated me, but that wouldn't be the case in the above scenario, necessarily.
    But really, who's going to be able to afford one anyway? Rich kids. Nothing against rich kids, but they don't have the best track record. I can see the pov footage now of them throttling these things downhill, blowing out berms, being reckless, and having an unwarranted and unbridled speed advantage over pedaling riders, who may not want to loose the hardworking payoff of a pedal bike.
    My example of a previous attempt to aide the disabled (really the wrong word here) or a person who has a hard time pedaling (in this instance) is the crossbow as I've seen mentioned before. At first, it was manufactured to help people who could not muster the energy to operate a bow. We saw pictures of people in wheelchairs, with loved ones getting out and enjoying nature, awesome. The fact is that now crossbow hunting is slowly morphing archery season into a conundrum rifle season of sorts. My point is that the reasoning makes sense, but as we all know, actual outcome is not always trully projected by good intention.

    Other concerns:
    -As mentioned, this hybrid pedal/motor bike is still a motor bike. But it has pedals. Other advocacy groups may latch on to this as a means to an end for mountain bikes.
    -Mountain bike advocacy has been long, slow moving, and hard. It is finally getting somewhere. How will these bikes make progress any smoother? It's a serious wrench in the system.
    -If they are banned, people who have spent thousands are going to ride them anyway-no bueno for the sport.

  22. #47
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    i wouldn't worry about it. the costs should keep any real rider away on any trail. it's the same person who'll by a $3500 boutique builder commuter with custom racks outfitted in a 5th avenue kitsbow kit. one and done.
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  23. #48
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    I see these electric mountain bikes as a flash in the pan. They may sell a few, but there's no way there's going to be enough interest to keep producing them for more than a model year or two. I've still yet to see one on any trail and I ride a lot. I'm thinking that the overwhelming majority of seasoned mountain bikers won't even consider one of these things.

    On the other hand, I do see electric bikes becoming more popular with the urban/street/commuter crowd.

  24. #49
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    Electric dh bikes would negate lift service..

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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    A 65 year old will think it's the most awesome thing and feel like they are 20 years younger.

    In regards to the bike above, now people that are too disabled to ride a normal bike have something they can ride. Where do you draw the line? Do those people not deserve to ride trails? Change is inevitable.
    This!

    e-Bikes are a great development for people with mobility challenges. You may not like it but think about the therapeutic benefits you get when you get away from civilization and get out in the back country/trails. It calms you down, improves your wellbeing, makes you feel better.

    Just because an e-bike exists does not mean you are forced to ride it. Just like single-speeds or riders that only ride hard-tails; those that look down on riders of the new 5+ inch travel trail bikes with their rock eating ability to smooth the trail. Is that cheating? Should I still be riding the fully rigid 26er I started on in the early '90s through boulder fields and trails that people today only consider riding on an "endure" rig? Technology evolves.

    Electric assist is going to happen and electric regenerative braking will come and there will be more tech integration into the bike than you would care for... computer control adaptive suspension, perhaps self adjusting tire pressures, things I cant even think about now.

    You can become a retro grouch or embrace the change! For me I am currently undecided what I want.

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