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  1. #1
    No one calls me Maurice.
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    Rate my behavior

    So two incidents in the past two days have me wondering if I'm the problem on the trail or the solution. Here's your chance to rate me on the "Jackass" scale from 0 (not that bad) to 5 (complete jackass).

    Scenerio #1: 9' wide limestone trail riding with my wife. I see an on-coming cyclist and drop back but my wife is also slowing (unintentional, she can't hold a pace) and this guy is coming fast. I manage to get over to the point where my handlebar in inside my side of the trail (nothing past 4.5') so he has a full half of the available space beginning 25 feet from when he passes by. He yells out "Really!" and "Jackass" (hence the rating system).

    Scenero #2: Riding a similarly constructed rails-to-trails and hit a section where both sides are washed out pretty bad (steep drop off and protruding sharp rocks). I see an on-coming cyclist so I move to the right so we both have about 1/2 of the remaining useable trail and we won't run our handlebars together (so long as he moves over too). Right as we are about to pass he locks up the brakes, gets his feet planted to recover from the panic stop and yells something about the spacial relationship between my head and rectum.

    In both cases I think I was reasonable in my actions, neither rider had to depart the trail and the rider in scenero #2 would have had to yield no more space than I had he not freaked out. What say you?
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  2. #2
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    Sounds like you have a bunch of rodeies on your trail in your area...?

    I don't get how people can be so B!tchy while riding..????

    I am the happiest guy in the world when on my bike...I guess I'm in love with the ride not the Strava numbers or record braking pace or whatever it is that makes thease people so grumpy...I just egnor them..meh whatever dude!! Just like keyboardtuffguys online = boring

    If you realy moved over like you said then = 0
    You just have a bad case of TrailJackass incounter :-)
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  3. #3
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    From the sounds of it, I'd say 0. Now, if you were climbing, the jackassedness goes the other way for the descender who failed to yield to you.

  4. #4
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    I have only had one time where another rider hollered at me when I was riding. Was riding down a very technical section and didn't notice the guy coming up and after he got to the top he hollered supposed to yield. Technically he was right and it was just an honest oversight on my part -I am the most yielding rider you will find on the trail. I am not a Stravahole by any means of the word.

    For the most part, the two reactions I get is a greeting or they just ride like you don't exist. I say hello and have a good ride to all I see on the trail.
    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  5. #5
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    I would rate it at a zero. In both cases they were descending huh? I guess they had to slow down a bit. Bummer for them...........Dumb-a....

  6. #6
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    Sounds like you need to find a new riding area. I'm rating you at a solid 0.
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  7. #7
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    Intolerance is everywhere.
    Do what you can to accommodate, shrug it off and move on.

  8. #8
    All fat, all the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mookie View Post
    Sounds like you need to find a new riding area. I'm rating you at a solid 0.
    exactly!

  9. #9
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    If you feel you did the right thing, you're okay.
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  10. #10
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    A little different take on scenario #1; if you are yielding, yield. Give the other rider as much trail as possible, and safely as you can. I've come across 1/2 yields from bikes and hooked handlebars. When I'm yielding, I now make the effort to get out the way, and give all the trail to the oncoming rider. Riders can take up some space, especially leaning into a turn; and with wider bars now, the trail just isn't enough for the pass.

    Scenario #2; stuff happens. Move on. Can't be 100% perfect all the time.
    Really steep climbs are not my forte, so I always dread that lowest gear because I figure, god, Iím doomed. - Julie Furtado

  11. #11
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    Re: Rate my behavior

    #1
    A 9' wide trail?! 3 riders can easily fit. A little bit of yielding and possibly slowing down from both parties is all that is needed. 0 for you, 5 for the other guy

    #2
    If you both could fit the width, again same procedure and score as #1.

    How do these guys ride singletrack? We buzz by each other all the time around here with our handlebars clearing each other by inches. We simply slow down a bit, smile, and say "hey."

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mookie View Post
    Sounds like you need to find a new riding area. I'm rating you at a solid 0.
    Wrong answer. Stop giving stickweeds reason to be stickweeds. Make them stop every single time they are in the wrong until they get it. Perpetuating bad trail etiquette is shameful and says you simply don't care.
    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

  13. #13
    No one calls me Maurice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    From the sounds of it, I'd say 0. Now, if you were climbing, the jackassedness goes the other way for the descender who failed to yield to you.
    Essentially flat on both counts.
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  14. #14
    No one calls me Maurice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryFriend View Post
    #1
    A 9' wide trail?! 3 riders can easily fit. A little bit of yielding and possibly slowing down from both parties is all that is needed. 0 for you, 5 for the other guy

    #2
    If you both could fit the width, again same procedure and score as #1.

    How do these guys ride singletrack? We buzz by each other all the time around here with our handlebars clearing each other by inches. We simply slow down a bit, smile, and say "hey."
    That's probably one of the problems in the Midwest, since we have so little single track folks aren't used to riding a specific line. Also, so many new recreational riders who haven't quite sorted the sport out yet.
    The most expensive bike in the world is still cheaper than the cheapest open heart surgery.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryFriend View Post
    #1
    A 9' wide trail?! 3 riders can easily fit. A little bit of yielding and possibly slowing down from both parties is all that is needed. 0 for you, 5 for the other guy

    #2
    If you both could fit the width, again same procedure and score as #1.

    How do these guys ride singletrack? We buzz by each other all the time around here with our handlebars clearing each other by inches. We simply slow down a bit, smile, and say "hey."
    This ^
    experienced singletrack riders come much closer without incident all the time- these are novice riders who don't know the rules and think people should move out of the way. If they do this to hikers that gives us a bad image- I would polite inform them that uphill riders have the right of way and if they scoff tell them to learn how to ride...being polite would be tough in this situation though-

  16. #16
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    0 in both cases, your taking the other riders space in your consideration which is rare, your yielding space to the other riders and lastly your taking everyone's safety into consideration.

  17. #17
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    Each time I ride, IT's MY RIDE, my pace I get out of the way when I can. I treat each person with respect and always ask if they need help and help when the situation calls for it. Now that said, a guy yelled at my wife, but shortly after he was apologizing in the parking lot. Guess he didn't want to pull his head out of his ass!!!

    0 in both!!!

  18. #18
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    If you were going downhill- you are a jack ass.
    If you were going uphill- you are a negative 1,000
    If you were going on flat ground- 0

  19. #19
    zrm
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    Personally I think if you're going to bring out the "jackass" rating , there needs to be a level of intent. Even if you cause a problem - and almost all of us do at one time or another - if it's just an honest mistake then there is no "jackassesness". If, however, you do something like not give enough room, don't yield to the climbing rider, brush people back out of a chip of your shoulder, sense of "the trail is all mine get out of my way I can do whatever I want" sense of entitlement, then the jackass scale comes into play.

  20. #20
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    I'll give you a 2 since both times you intended to leave plenty of room for them to pass but if multiple riders are getting upset maybe you're not leaving as much room as you think.

  21. #21
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    I rate you a "0" and them a "5". You were considerate of them but they were not considerate of you.

  22. #22
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    Make yourself scarier and more intimidating next time and you won't have to deal with them. They will pull off to the side until you and your group pass.

    -F
    It's never easier - you just go faster.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locool View Post
    A little different take on scenario #1; if you are yielding, yield. Give the other rider as much trail as possible, and safely as you can. I've come across 1/2 yields from bikes and hooked handlebars. When I'm yielding, I now make the effort to get out the way, and give all the trail to the oncoming rider. Riders can take up some space, especially leaning into a turn; and with wider bars now, the trail just isn't enough for the pass.
    This, precisely this.

    So, you've been cursed by oncoming cyclists twice in a row. Whatever could the problem be?

    I have no interest n rating your behavior, but would encourage you to think creatively -- you've responded (twice) to oncoming riders by giving them the exact amount of space that you considered "fair" and not one jot more and gotten an extremely negative result both times. Next time, as suggested above, try giving extra space, as much as you possibly can, to an oncoming rider. Does this result in a better outcome? Let the empirical evidence be your guide.

    Happy trails!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forster View Post
    So two incidents in the past two days have me wondering if I'm the problem on the trail or the solution. Here's your chance to rate me on the "Jackass" scale from 0 (not that bad) to 5 (complete jackass).

    Scenerio #1: 9' wide limestone trail riding with my wife. I see an on-coming cyclist and drop back but my wife is also slowing (unintentional, she can't hold a pace) and this guy is coming fast. I manage to get over to the point where my handlebar in inside my side of the trail (nothing past 4.5') so he has a full half of the available space beginning 25 feet from when he passes by. He yells out "Really!" and "Jackass" (hence the rating system).

    Scenero #2: Riding a similarly constructed rails-to-trails and hit a section where both sides are washed out pretty bad (steep drop off and protruding sharp rocks). I see an on-coming cyclist so I move to the right so we both have about 1/2 of the remaining useable trail and we won't run our handlebars together (so long as he moves over too). Right as we are about to pass he locks up the brakes, gets his feet planted to recover from the panic stop and yells something about the spacial relationship between my head and rectum.

    In both cases I think I was reasonable in my actions, neither rider had to depart the trail and the rider in scenero #2 would have had to yield no more space than I had he not freaked out. What say you?
    In the end any pass (overtaking or opposite direction) is a good pass if both riders are still happily riding their bikes and no has to (or feels the need to dab etc).

    That would result in a pass rating (say 5 to 10 on a 1 to 10 scale).

    One or both riders off means a passs rating of 0 to 5.

    Both riders off with yelling 1 to3

    Both riders off with physical contact 0

    So the pass is a 5 on number one cause everyone was still on thier bikes...but yelling occurred.

    So the pass is a 3 on number two cause one off with yelling.

    The concept here is you are out for a fun and enjoyable time, both riders...both but failing that one riders, need to be nice to keep it fun and enjoyable.

    In my opinion one of the worst riders is a fast guy out for a fast ride, he insists on passing everyone going up, and yells at them to get off their bikes so he can pass with as little effort as possible. He then rides down the hill, and passes the uphill riders with no care if they feel they have to get off the bike....

    I have been confronted with this I stayed on my bike, and yelled back pass me if you have the skills, instead of getting off he eventually passed, but was very unhappy.

  25. #25
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    It would be a good thing that in Arizona we don't have many flat trails (that I ride at least)... but the god damn 90% of mtb bikers have no idea downhill needs to yield to uphill...

    And for god sakes please slow down when passing hikers on the trail... I get so sick of seeing other mountain bikes blazing by hikers...

  26. #26
    No one calls me Maurice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by June Bug View Post
    This, precisely this.

    So, you've been cursed by oncoming cyclists twice in a row. Whatever could the problem be?

    I have no interest n rating your behavior, but would encourage you to think creatively -- you've responded (twice) to oncoming riders by giving them the exact amount of space that you considered "fair" and not one jot more and gotten an extremely negative result both times. Next time, as suggested above, try giving extra space, as much as you possibly can, to an oncoming rider. Does this result in a better outcome? Let the empirical evidence be your guide.

    Happy trails!
    I don't think either situation was a matter of me yielding what I perceived as fair. In the first situation I moved as far as I could without taking out my wife (really high on the scale). In the second situation we both had use of 1/2 the available trail (really all there was without one of us taking a dive). In the second situation (to the earlier post concerning the ability of the rider), we both should have considered yielding perhaps. I assume that other adult riders are in control and capable of riding in a reasonable amount of space as parts of that trail are 9" to a foot wide for hundreds of feet at a time (with goat head thorns on both sides). The error perhaps is that he underestimated his skill and I over estimated his skill.
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  27. #27
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    some folks just get annoyed when they see people riding two-wide. I don't even feel safe walking two-wide on our local rec. trail because, ha!, roadies like to blaze down this thing at 30 mph. Back to riding; my girlfriend and I have had a discussion that if we are riding two-wide and someone aproaches, she always goes first and I drop back so there isn't any last second confusion. It seems like a petty conversation to have to have but it helps us be able to ride two-wide (when safe) without feeling like trail hogs.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryFriend View Post
    #1
    A 9' wide trail?! 3 riders can easily fit. A little bit of yielding and possibly slowing down from both parties is all that is needed. 0 for you, 5 for the other guy

    #2
    If you both could fit the width, again same procedure and score as #1.

    How do these guys ride singletrack? We buzz by each other all the time around here with our handlebars clearing each other by inches. We simply slow down a bit, smile, and say "hey."
    Wow 9' wide trail... We don't have that here in Az. Here that is called a road (at best a "jeep road") and nobody even considers slowing down. Just move over and ride on through. Our "wide" trails are 4 feet wide and two riders can pass side by side if they both move over. The only time I see the need to stop on a true single track where there is no room to pass without going off the track or over the edge of a cliff face.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MtbAZ44 View Post
    It would be a good thing that in Arizona we don't have many flat trails (that I ride at least)... but the god damn 90% of mtb bikers have no idea downhill needs to yield to uphill...
    I see that alot at Sonoran. I think those trails bring out newer riders. On other trails I see much better understanding of the rules.
    Joe
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  30. #30
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    I think you did the right things. In my experience a lot of guys...especially if they deem themselves more experienced than you, expect the yielder, to slow or stop and give EXTRA room. I like to give equal room provided i assess we could both cruise through with ease. If i can see the other rider get nervous or act as such, I try to just stop and say hello, have fun.

    I have been yelled at just like you in a situation where we had at least 8 feet between us on a flat fire road. The elder gentlemen just felt strongly i should stop or slow for him. Not sure why but I just chalked it up to everyone having different comfort levels and expectations. I do my best to be polite and even say sorry if another rider yields to me for any reason even if I had the right away to begin with and most of my encounters have been just as pleasant.

  31. #31
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    good grief, you get a zero. But you need to work on your comebacks.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    good grief, you get a zero. But you need to work on your comebacks.
    Good point. I'm so used to engaging motorists and pedistrians that I was caught off guard by both situations. Usually my bike v. bike antics involve a roadie buzzing me from behind. I don't have a verbal for that yet, my best effort to date is catching them and screaming "on you left" if we're on pavement or locking my rear tire up if we're on limestone trails. I think the brake locking is more unnerving.
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  33. #33
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    It's better to not say anything and keep riding, exceptions might be if they caused a problem for your wife/kids riding with you. But even with that you don't want to look like a jackass in front of your family. A more neutral come back might be "there's plenty of room" and just leave it at that.

    The second situation sounds like the guy had a beginner like skills and panicked, some jackasses just feel entitled and so he blamed you. For guys like that, you are better off not saying anything, hold your line and let them crash, it's the only way they learn how to improve or they quit riding as it's toot traumatic.

    Overall, there's exceptions, best thing is just don't pay attention to the jackasses and keep riding.

    "On your left" to me is not helpful. A one word warning really loud "Bike!!!" is better, then they can get over, almost always to the right since that's the custom for overall traffic yield in the USA, people tend to go that way unless they get confused by the "On your left" BS.

    All the rules and etiquette debates on mountain biking is bit over the top to me, just overall try to be polite and avoid incidents. The trail yeilding "rules" aren't really practical/helpful most of the time.

  34. #34
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    Do you pull over and stop your automobile on two lane roads when you see an oncoming vehicle?
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  35. #35
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    Forster both scenarios the other riders were the Jack asses. Case closed!

    Seriously riders like that it is just a matter of time before they piss off the wrong person. Lights out!
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    I've just about given up riding the local rail trail after several incidents involving poor spatial awareness and one that was straight up mean. When a guy on a road bike pushed my daughter off the trail into a marsh and I had to take a swim to fish her bike out of six feet of mosquito infested brine that was pretty much the last straw. Before I took the swim I took off and caught up to him and left him in a physically debilitated state waiting for an ambulance though.

    In the woods there's rarely a problem with other riders. Hikers and horses are a different story though...

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    I've just about given up riding the local rail trail after several incidents involving poor spatial awareness and one that was straight up mean. When a guy on a road bike pushed my daughter off the trail into a marsh and I had to take a swim to fish her bike out of six feet of mosquito infested brine that was pretty much the last straw. Before I took the swim I took off and caught up to him and left him in a physically debilitated state waiting for an ambulance though.

    In the woods there's rarely a problem with other riders. Hikers and horses are a different story though...
    So many tough guys on the interwebz.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    I've just about given up riding the local rail trail after several incidents involving poor spatial awareness and one that was straight up mean. When a guy on a road bike pushed my daughter off the trail into a marsh and I had to take a swim to fish her bike out of six feet of mosquito infested brine that was pretty much the last straw. Before I took the swim I took off and caught up to him and left him in a physically debilitated state waiting for an ambulance though.

    You left your daughter floundering in six feet of mosquito infested brine and ran off to go beat on some dude?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    You left your daughter floundering in six feet of mosquito infested brine and ran off to go beat on some dude?
    Toughness runs in their family, apparently.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    Do you pull over and stop your automobile on two lane roads when you see an oncoming vehicle?
    yes, when i see she's texting

  41. #41
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    i had a similar encounter yesterday as i was patrolling a race. i was called upon to assist an accident and the only way to get to the scene was to take a two-track that was part of the course. the course was still open to the public so basic rules apply, i did see several non racer folks on the course too. i was sprinting opposing race traffic, but riding the fringe of the 2 track and a racer comes barreling through a corner on his far left. i locked the rear and released to slingshot me over into the "rough" and he cussed me up n down as i apologized. funny thing was the next race he did, i also did, and low n behold i was tailing him. a couple tire rubs in a corner was all it took to make the pass.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelscott View Post
    If you were going downhill- you are a jack ass.
    If you were going uphill- you are a negative 1,000
    If you were going on flat ground- 0
    This.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    You left your daughter floundering in six feet of mosquito infested brine and ran off to go beat on some dude?
    Read more carefully - her bike was in six feet of mosquito infested brine.

    You must not have kids.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair View Post
    Read more carefully - her bike was in six feet of mosquito infested brine.

    You must not have kids.

    Sorry if I got that wrong, I admit my reading comprehension might be a little dodgy sometimes but to be fair you're no Hemingway yourself, I'm sure that I'm not the only one who read it that way.

    I have kids.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair View Post
    Read more carefully - her bike was in six feet of mosquito infested brine.

    You must not have kids.
    I have kids, too, but your post left me in a debilitated state, so much so that I rushed for an ambulance to a conclusion.

  46. #46
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    Who gives a rat's.... Riders pass on trails. I never get why there is an issue with this regardless of how it goes.

  47. #47
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    easy answer:

    were you climbing ? if so, you own the trail, descenders must yield

    were you descending ? if so, your fault 100%

    was it flat ? both of you should ease up and roll by slowly, or go way around. fault is the offending dweeb


    in any case it sounds like the other peeps are on a training mission and too adrenaline pumped and 'point break attitude'

    I used to be this way a TON until I finally figured out that my super hard training must be solo or indoors or on road, and on the trail I can ride hard but 'I must totally accept' having to slow down or even stop for others. So...now I have my pain cave I am a fair bit nicer on the trails. others may be the same as me, not intending to be dic*s, but when on trail they want to keep tha hammer down.

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: masterofnone's Avatar
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    You did nothing wrong. Riders who know what they're doing don't have conflicts like this. It is my opinion that there are too many wanna-be's riding too fast on rail trails. IMO rail trail riding is about a casual pace, watching and enjoying the (usually) happy faces on the others, not setting a personal best at the expense of everyone else using the trail.
    To appreciate the flowers you must also walk among s**t to know the difference

  49. #49
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    The idea of the ascending rider _always_ having the ROW is silly. It depends on the situation.

    If someone is on a 9' wide trail with no obstacles and easy passing lines, just slow down a bit, yield some space, and pass by each other.

    I like what Mrwhlr said about cars driving in opposite directions. If there is enough space on the trail, no one should have to completely stop and get off the trail.

  50. #50
    No one calls me Maurice.
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    Met a couple on the trail and they decided to ride the right and left limits of a paved trail (at least 10' wide) which wasn't too bad but they were approaching around a blind corner. I shot the gap and hoped for the best.
    The most expensive bike in the world is still cheaper than the cheapest open heart surgery.

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