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  1. #1
    Really I am that slow
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    PSA keep it single

    Just a reminder....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PSA keep it single-002.jpg  

    Read my BLOG!

    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

  2. #2
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    Is that down in St George? I saw the jumping crowd got a hold of church rocks.

  3. #3
    Ridin' Furry
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    Tell it like it is brotha.

  4. #4
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    I like someone's sig I read recently. "If no one could ride it, there wouldn't be a trail there. Just because you can't ride doesn't mean that someone can't." Or something to that effect.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
    Isaiah 58:14

    www.stuckinthespokes.com

  5. #5
    Really I am that slow
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffbucc View Post
    Is that down in St George? I saw the jumping crowd got a hold of church rocks.
    This is on the Jem, close to hurricane
    Read my BLOG!

    just a guy who loves bikes and exploring

  6. #6
    El Gato Malo
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    An alternate trail was ridden in to avoid some rocks?

  7. #7
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    I support your cause!

    ...but hopefully plowing a swath off-trail with my body doesn't count against me.

    -F
    It's never easier - you just go faster.

  8. #8
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    Yeah I thought I saw that on jem. That 25 hour race wrecked the trail. Not too happy about that.

  9. #9
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    There is nothing wrong with having a bypass on technical features and planning them can avoid a lot of messes where people go all over, but yeah in this case it isn't really clear what the heck is going on.

  10. #10
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    One nice thing about trails in the Northeast is there usually plenty of deadfall lying around to drag over to block off and obscure braids. Much easier to work with than big rocks.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  11. #11
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    Have to admit though, our big rocks are quite the deterrent.

  12. #12
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    "Improve your skill, not the trail!"

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sxotty View Post
    There is nothing wrong with having a bypass on technical features and planning them can avoid a lot of messes where people go all over, but yeah in this case it isn't really clear what the heck is going on.
    I agree that it has become more necessary to put bypasses on tech features. Especially on popular trails. More and more recreational riders are out there and they don't have the skills to ride some of the more difficult features or knowledge of trail etiquette to not braid trails.

    The rule (yes, I'm calling it a rule) is simple.

    Stay on the trail.

    If the trail has features you can't ride, walk it! Don't change it, don't ride off trail to go around it.

    If you want to change a trail, join the trail crew and put in your 2 cents.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Ninja's Son
    You may be happy to hear that my dad has kicked cancer's ass. Now he's looking for whoever sent it.

  14. #14
    Te mortuo heres tibi sim?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    One nice thing about trails in the Northeast is there usually plenty of deadfall lying around to drag over to block off and obscure braids. Much easier to work with than big rocks.

    Yeahbut... two days later, the same (or other) gomers have then taken the time to un-block the braid.

    I don't get it. It would take them more time to try and ride the existing trail a couple times/session it to get it down than it would to drag everything back out of the way of "their" trail.
    Florence Nightingale's Stormtrooper

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffbucc View Post
    Yeah I thought I saw that on jem. That 25 hour race wrecked the trail. Not too happy about that.

    This explains a lot. It's amazing the little "short cuts" racers will take to save a few hundredths of a second.

    We host an Enduro out here every year and there are fun twisty trails that now have new lines cutting accross some of the "S" turns. Love the race and most of the racers are not to blame.... but there's always a few that think their race result is more important than keeping trails as they are.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
    Isaiah 58:14

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover View Post
    Yeahbut... two days later, the same (or other) gomers have then taken the time to un-block the braid.
    Yup, it's happened to me. I just cover it up again even better.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  17. #17
    zrm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail6 View Post
    An alternate trail was ridden in to avoid some rocks?
    Or an alternate line to go over the rocks. You see that too.

  18. #18
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    We fight this battle constantly around here.

    SPP
    Rigid.

  19. #19
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    please expalin to me why that picture is bad. I see lots of land with out a trail on it.

    i guess what does it truly hurt?

  20. #20
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    Seems to be a universal problem, along with moving the rocks off the trail.

    Personally, I have no problem walking over features that I can't clear. It gives me a challenge to work on the skill to clear it.

  21. #21
    Rolling
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowerThenSnot View Post
    This is on the Jem, close to hurricane
    WOW....I'm trying to recall what part of the JEM trail is hard to ride!?...other than that steep part. near the highway.

    There is an alternative solution. Make this the new trail.

  22. #22
    see me rollin, they hatin
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    well messing with a trail is one thing, but there's nothing wrong with having a "b!tch line"
    sorry, i mean a B line. it's better than widening the existing trail to double track
    fap

  23. #23
    Afric Pepperbird
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    This explains a lot. It's amazing the little "short cuts" racers will take to save a few hundredths of a second.

    We host an Enduro out here every year and there are fun twisty trails that now have new lines cutting accross some of the "S" turns. Love the race and most of the racers are not to blame.... but there's always a few that think their race result is more important than keeping trails as they are.
    I agree; whenever there's a race here in Bend (XC, Super D, it doesn't matter...), this happens.

    By the way, that original photo does not look that difficult at all. Maybe it's just the angle, and that it's not a close-up.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Ninja View Post
    The rule (yes, I'm calling it a rule) is simple.

    Stay on the trail.

    If the trail has features you can't ride, walk it! Don't change it, don't ride off trail to go around it.

    If you want to change a trail, join the trail crew and put in your 2 cents.
    Yeah I did. And I had this nice rock jump I built over a log with a heavy slab of rock I had to drag...then someone took it out and threw it off a cliff... I would rather they had built a bypass (and it was easy too I mean I am not a tricksy rider just a nice smooth jump just over a foot high is all so you could roll off super slow and not endo)

  25. #25
    NOT Team Sanchez
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    People have actually altered stunts to be easier in our town, mind you these are already off the main lines. On a trail fully dedicated to FR this has also occurred.
    I like bikes.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Ninja View Post
    If you want to change a trail, join the trail crew and put in your 2 cents.
    My stand, too. But you wouldn't believe the people I've run across who think that just because they pay club dues (or ride on the trails, without even paying club dues) who think they automatically have equal input to the people on the trail crew.

    no amount of explanation regarding the fact that some decisions are made on the ground by folks on the crew, and they can't be planned out in meeting rooms in front of a projector screen will appease them. it's not even good enough to tell them that if they have input and they can't make it to the work day for that spot, that they should give their input to someone who WILL be there so it can be given due consideration.

    where I live, it's REALLY rare for people to make lines so they can ride OVER some rocks or a log or something. super common for people to make lines to avoid tech.

  27. #27
    I hate sugar sand.
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    I've come across a few splits on the trail I ride. I think most of the times it's because there's a tree that's nearly in the center of the trail, and some people choose to go left around the tree and some choose right. There's no daunting obstacles that people are avoiding.

    I can't imagine that people straying from the "correct" path has any effect on how much you enjoy your ride.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoinkMobb View Post
    I've come across a few splits on the trail I ride. I think most of the times it's because there's a tree that's nearly in the center of the trail, and some people choose to go left around the tree and some choose right. There's no daunting obstacles that people are avoiding.

    I can't imagine that people straying from the "correct" path has any effect on how much you enjoy your ride.
    Trial purity can be overdone, I believe, but braiding spreads trails out and if left unchecked in heavily ridden areas turns the woods into a jumble of varicose veins. That's why I work to hide and block many of them
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  29. #29
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    Those tough lines I have trouble cleaning can usually be cleaned when riding in the other direction.

  30. #30
    I hate sugar sand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    Trial purity can be overdone, I believe, but braiding spreads trails out and if left unchecked in heavily ridden areas turns the woods into a jumble of varicose veins. That's why I work to hide and block many of them
    That makes sense.

    People of lesser ability (like myself) might appreciate a bailout spot here or there, but if I have to bail at every turn, maybe I shouldn't be riding that trail.

  31. #31
    Excuse4fun
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    I'm new to riding and I kinda go into it thinking "Well I got myself into this mess gotta keep going" Would totally walk it through if I couldn't handle it. Kinda seems like the right thing to do.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    Trial purity can be overdone, I believe, but braiding spreads trails out and if left unchecked in heavily ridden areas turns the woods into a jumble of varicose veins. That's why I work to hide and block many of them
    Unfortunatly blocking and hiding trail braids is often done rather haphazardly...

    One particular spot goes through about 200 feet of standing water the water lasts all summer....the low spot was originally created by cattle and horse traffic.

    There was a relatively clean bypass....anyway some do gooder blocked off the bypass...

    and bingo we had many braided bypasses....course they kept blocking them off....

    Finally someone put a sign up that said use this bypass......and finally the do gooders stopped blocking the bypass.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excuse4Fun View Post
    I'm new to riding and I kinda go into it thinking "Well I got myself into this mess gotta keep going" Would totally walk it through if I couldn't handle it. Kinda seems like the right thing to do.
    Yup that is what we do around here.....

    I do stay off the steep downhill runs though.....cause I don't want to get smacked by downhillers bombing the run.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffbucc View Post
    Yeah I thought I saw that on jem. That 25 hour race wrecked the trail. Not too happy about that.
    It's not just racers, it's the Strava KOM crowd also. Anyone that does time trials, races against the clock, or is in pursuit of saving the most amount of energy or straightening out the line does the same kind of damage.

    I built a trail 3 years ago and put plenty of stuff in it to keep the speeds down to under 15 MPH to make it safe single track in both directions, as a multi use trail. Last year, the Strava King of Mountain crowd short cutted, straightened, and in general did everything they could to turn the trail I built into a drag strip. In the process of doing so, along came head on collisions on blind intersections, ripped up soil, skid bump whoop de do's in front of turns, massive erosion problems, and no one to come out and do maintenance on the damage they'd created.


    Not happy at all with Strava users, that have something to prove as KOM holder. Save that stuff for the closed competition race courses. Racers can be their own worse enemies, we don't allow them to exhibit such behavior on public, roads, it should not be tolerated on public use trails either, save it for closed course competition events only.

  35. #35
    Excuse4fun
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    An old friend of mine once got knocked out on a downhill corner because someone decided to walk back up. Don't ask me why that would ever seem like an intelligent idea. My poor bud had to spend the night in the hospital and get his cat scanned to make sure he was okay.

  36. #36
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    I am starting to see more and more of this in North Phx. Aggravating to see it happening...

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott View Post
    Unfortunatly blocking and hiding trail braids is often done rather haphazardly...

    One particular spot goes through about 200 feet of standing water the water lasts all summer....the low spot was originally created by cattle and horse traffic.

    There was a relatively clean bypass....anyway some do gooder blocked off the bypass...

    and bingo we had many braided bypasses....course they kept blocking them off....

    Finally someone put a sign up that said use this bypass......and finally the do gooders stopped blocking the bypass.
    I agree. Sometimes bypasses make sense, such as this case, or to allow less skilled riders an alternative to a difficult or dangerous obstacle. But it gets overdone, often for no apparent reason other than to avoid a minor obstacle or cut off a corner or curve. Those are the ones I try to block and hide.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  38. #38
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    A B-route is one thing, you have a line going over a feature and a line around it. That's fine both are valid options. I have always found the worst mess is formed not by people trying to avoid obstacles but by people playing on them. You have a section of trail with a few obstacles close together and people line up, hit the jump/drop/whatever and then pull off into the woods to watch their buddy do it. Then ride around up through the woods to do it again. Maybe cut through to one on the other side of the switch back. Before you know it people have stitched every feature together in an infinite number of ways until all your left with is trees rocks and bare dirt in a large area. It was so bad at nam that they actually had to build stone walls along both sides of the trail in paces to keep people on the trial.

  39. #39
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    Oh jees...
    "Save the world". "One 30-foot go-around will destroy the planet!" Get off your high horse...
    2007 Cdale Caffeine 29er Lefty.
    "Your not going to shove you're proper grammer down are throats!!"

  40. #40
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    I don't know anything about the trail in the OP above but there are many good reasons why that braid may be a problem. There is a lot of opposition to mountain bike trails all over North America. Getting permission to build them or to ride on existing trails can be very difficult and in a lot of cases, impossible. In my own experience, I've had trails shut down for a braid no bigger than the one shown.

    Let's try a hypothetical situation similar to one that happened to me, using the photo above.

    PSA keep it single-property.jpg

    The owner of Property B has given permission for me to put a trail across his property that is the only access to a larger trail system on public land. He was reluctant, but finally agreed that if I stayed within 10 feet of his property line, the trail could go through.

    People riding on the trail decided to go around the difficult section and rode-in the braid you see.

    The owner of Property A comes out and sees the trail running through his land. He gets in touch with Property B and threatens to sue him for allowing bikers to ride on his land. He may or may not have a case against Property B but Property B isn't going to take the chance. He was reluctant to have the trail there in the first place. Property B denies access to his land and effectively shuts down the whole trail system.

    A lot of people didn't get what the big deal was and thought both property owners were being dicks, but it's their land and they can be dicks about it if they want.

    In my case if the braid had gone to the right instead of the left it would have encroached on a "riparian zone" on a salmon bearing stream and the landowner would have been in all kinds of trouble with the federal government's ministry of the environment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Ninja's Son
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excuse4Fun View Post
    My poor bud had to spend the night in the hospital and get his cat scanned to make sure he was okay.
    At least he did not have to get his dog scanned then you know your really in trouble

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