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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    Living in the mountains, storms sometimes do un expectantly blow in and I have personally been caught out in some both on and off road.
    No, they don't. Anyone with enough knowledge and ability to ride a bike can interpret the weather forecast and basic weather products, especially when we are talking about looking at it before you go and not 5 days before.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  2. #77
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    Wrong answer....while you may have an idea of a possible storm coming in...sometimes.
    I'm a fan of following the weather, and not just for my rides.
    Living in the mountains(my house is at 6800'), storms do come up as a surprise sometimes, been caught out in a few over the years, one of such rides happened last September, got caught in a thunderstorm with the heaviest downpour I've ever ridden in and the temperature dropped about 30 degrees, it happened about 15 miles with about 1200' of climbing left to go from my house, I did get a little cold, but the more I rode, the better I felt, it was an awesome ride.
    I cannot speak for the road rider in particular that the OP was talking about, who knows? maybe he was taking a big risk, maybe the OP can pipe in here, since he lives in Tahoe, and he can inform us of the weather forecast that day, but its all behind us now, I sure the guy did learn something about being a little more prepared.

  3. #78
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    Oh, I've been caught in thunderstorms more than a few times, but they were not surprises. In fact, given a warm mountain area in excess of the normal lapse rate and decent humidity, it's likely. I live in Alaska and we have far less weather reporting than the lower 48, yet we can still forecast the weather with enough accuracy so that when you are out there you have a good idea of what to expect. Storms do not "come out of nowhere" these days. Maybe bikepacking without access to the internet you would be subject to a variety of "weather out of nowhere", but in that case one would expect one to be prepared for nearly all types of weather.

    Thunderstorms can form relatively fast, I've watched them many times in AZ, but you'd have a good idea what the weather is doing by watching the clouds and being aware. They wouldn't be "coming out of nowhere".
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  4. #79
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    Hey Jayem, can't really speak for Alaska or even Tahoe so much, where I live in Big Bear Lake which is 70miles east and 6500' above LA, we have some of the most unpredictable weather in the world, partially due to having the largest expanse of flat terrain( the Pacific ) and we are surrounded by deserts.
    I have checked the local weather before rides and in a couple of situations, the forecast had a very low possibility of rain and/ or snow, so I would take the chance and not carry extra clothing. Yes, I have been caught out in weather a few times unprepared, but since I started mountain biking in 1982, I never had a life threatening circumstance.
    As far as mountain bikers being more prepared then road riders, I've seen almost as much off road as I have on, but at least on the road, you have more access to help in most cases.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    Hey Jayem, can't really speak for Alaska or even Tahoe so much, where I live in Big Bear Lake which is 70miles east and 6500' above LA, we have some of the most unpredictable weather in the world, partially due to having the largest expanse of flat terrain( the Pacific ) and we are surrounded by deserts.
    I have checked the local weather before rides and in a couple of situations, the forecast had a very low possibility of rain and/ or snow, so I would take the chance and not carry extra clothing. Yes, I have been caught out in weather a few times unprepared, but since I started mountain biking in 1982, I never had a life threatening circumstance.
    As far as mountain bikers being more prepared then road riders, I've seen almost as much off road as I have on, but at least on the road, you have more access to help in most cases.
    July/Aug/Sept that's monsoon season in SoCal and especially AZ, need to expect T-storms with heavy downpour if there's even a whiff of humidity.

  6. #81
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    Here is great article on this very subject.
    Pinkbike Poll: Are You Prepared, or Are You a Parasite? - Pinkbike

  7. #82
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    The one time I was caught in a dangerous storm I was riding on the East side of an 11,000 foot peak. When I left my home on the west side of the peak the sky's were perfectly clear and plenty warm. No sign of storm on the horizon nor in the forecast. It formed unexpectedly out of nowhere on the west side of the mountain and therefor, we could not see it at all until it came over the summit. It moved so fast that we didn't have more than 5 minutes to react and turn for home. Mountains CAN create weird freaky weather all on their own. Yes, I SHOULD have had some kind of weather gear with me in the mountains. But to say that any intelligent person can always know when a storm is coming is just way too simple of a conclusion. There are weird exceptions to every possible situation.

  8. #83
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    MTBers don't wear spandex 'cause they want to be cool vs roadies don't wear packs 'cause they want to be cool. I wear a pack everywere I ride and wear spandex on the trail. I must look like an idiot.
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  9. #84
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    The difference between caught out in a dangerous storm on a mountain bike in a remote area, and being caught out in a dangerous storm on a road bike on a well traveled road close to town seems to have escaped some folks.

    On a road bike...most of the time...help and shelter are not far away, and you won't be hard to locate if you have an emergency.

    On a mountain bike, out in the desert or up in the mountains miles from a roadway...not so much.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion_ View Post
    The difference between caught out in a dangerous storm on a mountain bike in a remote area, and being caught out in a dangerous storm on a road bike on a well traveled road close to town seems to have escaped some folks.

    On a road bike...most of the time...help and shelter are not far away, and you won't be hard to locate if you have an emergency.
    Once again roadies relying on someone else for their safety. Man up lycratards!
    " I only Ride Enduro'

  11. #86
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    ^^^
    Dude.

    It's the difference between getting in your car and driving to the next town, and getting into a jeep e and going off road out into the wilderness.

    Do you carry all sorts of survival gear and mechanics tools in your automobile? For those that don't...does that make them tards?

    Very different aspects of a similar sport. Roadies are all about speed. Real speed. Montainbiking requires a different set of skills and the ability to deal with much more difficult conditions and potentially much more difficult situations.

    If you can't understand that...

  12. #87
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    Is the real discussion a question of personal responsibility? It is good to help out a fellow human, but is someone else responsible for the care of those who make bad choices? I have stopped to fix flats for strangers and drove by others based on what I was doing at the moment. I personally evaluate their need versus my "cost" at the time and proceed accordingly. A 1 mile ride in weather is a good life lesson, a 10 mile ride in weather is a danger.

    My OPINION is if you sign up for something you are responsible to see it through and need to prepare for the obstacles. Buyer beware, rider be prepared. This goes for Home loans, student loans, used cars, anything in life. You make the choice and reap the benefits, you are responsible for the downside as well.

    He did not "need" to ride, he "chose" to ride, there is a big difference to me.
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  13. #88
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    Poor roadies… well actually, maybe it serves them right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reelchef67 View Post
    Once again roadies relying on someone else for their safety. Man up lycratards!
    But we get their body parts after they get hosed ... it's a win, win.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by HBSURFDAD View Post
    Is the real discussion a question of personal responsibility? It is good to help out a fellow human, but is someone else responsible for the care of those who make bad choices? I have stopped to fix flats for strangers and drove by others based on what I was doing at the moment. I personally evaluate their need versus my "cost" at the time and proceed accordingly. A 1 mile ride in weather is a good life lesson, a 10 mile ride in weather is a danger.

    My OPINION is if you sign up for something you are responsible to see it through and need to prepare for the obstacles. Buyer beware, rider be prepared. This goes for Home loans, student loans, used cars, anything in life. You make the choice and reap the benefits, you are responsible for the downside as well.

    He did not "need" to ride, he "chose" to ride, there is a big difference to me.
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  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by HBSURFDAD View Post
    Is the real discussion a question of personal responsibility? It is good to help out a fellow human, but is someone else responsible for the care of those who make bad choices? I have stopped to fix flats for strangers and drove by others based on what I was doing at the moment. I personally evaluate their need versus my "cost" at the time and proceed accordingly. A 1 mile ride in weather is a good life lesson, a 10 mile ride in weather is a danger.

    My OPINION is if you sign up for something you are responsible to see it through and need to prepare for the obstacles. Buyer beware, rider be prepared. This goes for Home loans, student loans, used cars, anything in life. You make the choice and reap the benefits, you are responsible for the downside as well.

    He did not "need" to ride, he "chose" to ride, there is a big difference to me.
    Yes I believe it is the correct question. ( btw I carry tools, and other roadside emergency stuff in my car)
    Its one thing to road riding an urban environment but up the boonies in a mountain pass requires a whole different level preparedness.
    You to yourself and families.

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    I reserve to the right to be politically incorrect and use the term "Lycratards" when it is appropriate to the situation at hand.
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  16. #91
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    I used to live in the area in the OP. Although those 'freak storms' happen from time to time (I remember riding my sportbike to work in the sun one morning and back in the snow in the afternoon in april) they don't happen all the time. If you're not from the mountains it's sometimes hard to know that the weather might be a *LOT* different 1500-2k vert higher than the nice and sunny you started in.

    I don't see why everyone is making such a big deal. Guy got caught out, someone almost certainly stopped and helped. Guy will check the weather and maybe bring rain gear and some warmers next time.

  17. #92
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    Interesting thread and in honesty I am not sure on which side I fall.

    I always carry a Camelbak (Blowfish20) pack with me, which contains a small tool kit/multi tools, Co2 tubes, a mini pump, spare tube (even though I run tubeless) a rain coat etc, 2 energy bars etc My friends laugh as it 'weighs a ton' and this why I can't climb as quick as them! (The real reason is the 30 extra pounds I carry around these days from when I was younger!).

    At work we are split into 2 camps, Roadies (3 or 4) and MTB riders (3 or 4). Of the Roadies, only 1 carries a pack with a tool kit, spares, coat etc... the rest run 2 water bottles, and this is it - the reason... Strava. They are obsessed with keeping weight down, retaining their KOMs on the way home etc. It is not unheard of them to leave their gear cached behind a tree or bush before a Strava KOM attempt, only to pick it up on the way back. In honesty, I don't get it.

    Knowing how unprepared some of them are, if I saw a rider that wasn't in danger, I'd be tempted to do the same as the OP if I had no room in the car to give them a lift. After a few miles walking, maybe they think twice next time. (obviously if it was a -20c freak blizzard I'd help).

    Maybe I'm a bad person, but heck it doesn't take a lot to look at the weather forecast before a ride, or carry a Co2 canister, rain coat or pump.
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  18. #93
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    I too would not stop to help unless the riders were in danger of injury or death. Sure, if I had room and it was no problem, but with the car already full, nope. The rider must take responsibility and be prepared.

    Also, critiquing a subset of riding culture (roadies) is a valuable thing to do. Each type of cycling has a somewhat different culture and each has faults or quirks that put them in danger. BMX riders, even the pros, tend to not wear helmets. Similarly, roadies tend to be caught without helpful gear. Mountain bikers ride in remote locations where medical evac can be a lengthy process.

    Observing and commenting on these differences isn't being a jerk. Or at least it doesn't have to be expressed in a mean-spirited way.

    I personally like to be prepared and always have more clothing, tools, water and calories than is needed 99% of the time. It's that other 1% of the time that I prepare for. Roadies tend not to do this. But does this make me or other well equipped camelpak wearers superior? In one way, yes. But looking at just that in isolation isn't the right perspective. Mountain bikers ride trails where it might take an hour or more just to haul an injured person back to a dirt road. So who's putting themselves in more danger?

    So that's what I try to tell myself when seeing unprepared cyclists riding on the road. They might get caught without enough clothing and request a ride. Yet someday I might find myself with a broken leg and need evacuation far from a road. Each type of rider weighs the probabilities and might need to rely on the help of others.

  19. #94
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    Interesting because I do road ride, and I've gotten some flack from "roadies" (who in my book are different than someone who just rides on the road, like me) for carrying too much stuff. Like it is a sign of my noob-ness. I don't like wearing a backpack on the road, so I have a rear rack with a small bag on it with extra stuff. Of course, my idea of lunch on a ride is a slice of chicken pot-pie and a banana, not goo out of a packet. I also pack all the water I need for the ride I want to do (which is often the back-back roads), not plan my route around water stops to save the weight of a 2nd water bottle. And if I am going to stop somewhere for lunch in the middle of the rural VA or WV, I do the other patrons (and myself) a favor and bring some thin light pants to cover up my junk. Yes, my Strava times suffer, but whatever.

    I lived in Tahoe for a few years, and abso-freaking-lutely I always had an extra layer even on the road. Don't care what time of year it was. Was not rocking the rear rack (stupid race bike) so wore a backpack if I needed to (to the chagrin of my road-riding companions).

    Now, in defense of those roadies who are gram-obsessed minimalists, part of the reason mountain bikers really need to carry so much extra stuff is that we are often out in the middle of nowhere, miles from the nearest help (such as a road). Road riders (especially in a place like Tahoe) are never that far from help if things get dire. Those folks you passed were inconvenienced, and uncomfortable, but that is about it. If things got really bad (like hypothermia was a risk) they could most likely get someone to help them out. Not so out on the trail.

    Just due to the nature of what mountain bikers do, even with all the stuff we bring along, I am willing to bet that we require more outside help to get us out of bad situations more than the minimalist roadies do.

    BTW, when I say "roadies" I am referring to a particular subculture (a very prevalent one) within the on-road cycling community.
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  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Also, critiquing a subset of riding culture (roadies) is a valuable thing to do. Each type of cycling has a somewhat different culture and each has faults or quirks that put them in danger. BMX riders, even the pros, tend to not wear helmets. Similarly, roadies tend to be caught without helpful gear.

    It's only valuable if it's helpful and wrongly painting an entire group with a broad brush is anything but helpful IMO. My experience has been that most roadies are very well prepared and pay close attention to weather forecasts. I used to go on daily group rides that included 50 or so riders and every person there was always appropriately dressed and carrying spare tubes and pumps.

    I don't carry a lot of gear on road (or mtb) rides but I accept the consequences of my choices. I can, and have waited out a storm under a barn eave or something similar or just toughed it out and busted home. So have most other riders I've known.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    It's only valuable if it's helpful and wrongly painting an entire group with a broad brush is anything but helpful IMO. My experience has been that most roadies are very well prepared and pay close attention to weather forecasts. I used to go on daily group rides that included 50 or so riders and every person there was always appropriately dressed and carrying spare tubes and pumps.

    I don't carry a lot of gear on road (or mtb) rides but I accept the consequences of my choices. I can, and have waited out a storm under a barn eave or something similar or just toughed it out and busted home. So have most other riders I've known.
    Certainly everyone is an individual. Yet the different groups do have different cultures and behaviors. It is ok to discuss these differences. Granted, sometimes that can devolve into attacking and defending rather than good natured discussion.

  22. #97
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    roadie on a mountain bike:


    51% smartass, 49% dumbass

  23. #98
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    That's the trailhead for Corral/Sidewinder in south tahoe. That rock is a super easy launchpad, but not if you don't pull up on the bars.

    Quote Originally Posted by parkmeister View Post
    roadie on a mountain bike:



  24. #99
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    Poor roadies… well actually, maybe it serves them right.

    Some roadies really enjoy risk. I recently had one tailgate me down a winding mountain road. I was in my car and I guess, since I was going the speed limit, I was too slow. He was very close and I couldn't safely pull over into the gravel shoulder. If an animal would've ran across the road and I braked suddenly, he'd had been toast. Roid rage is dangerous.

  25. #100
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    Please, let the sleeping pigs be...
    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

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