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OT: Cholesterol med advice

1K views 21 replies 17 participants last post by  billybobzia 
#1 · (Edited)
The doc and I have finally gave up on diet and exercise to control my cholesterol and stuck me on Lipitor. Family history suggests I'm doomed to meds. Seems like I've lost all energy and my muscles are sore enough I don't care if I ride or not. Will someone please put me out of my misery or maybe (preferably) suggest something else.
 
#2 ·
Couple of questions?

fred-da-trog said:
The doc and I have finally gave up on diet and exercise to control my cholesterol and stuck me on Lipitor. Family history suggests I'm doomed to meds. Seems like I've lost all energy and my muscles are sore enough I don't care if I ride or not. Will someone please put me out of my misery or maybe (preferably) suggest something else.
How long have you tried to improve your numbers with diet and exercise?
What's you family history look like for cardiovascular disease?
Are you overweight?
How old are you?
How high is your cholesterol?
LDL?
HDL?
Triglycerides?
Do you have hypertension?
 
#3 ·
Get in touch with your doc!

Sounds like you're suffering from one of the common side effects of the statin class of drugs, myositis - which can result in muscle pain, weakness, etc. You should call your doctor and let him know, so that he can change your regimen. He may have you try another med from the statin class or switch you to a different class altogether.

fred-da-trog said:
The doc and I have finally gave up on diet and exercise to control my cholesterol and stuck me on Lipitor. Family history suggests I'm doomed to meds. Seems like I've lost all energy and my muscles are sore enough I don't care if I ride or not. Will someone please put me out of my misery or maybe (preferably) suggest something else.
 
#4 ·
2farfwd

2farfwd said:
How long have you tried to improve your numbers with diet and exercise? 5 years
What's you family history look like for cardiovascular disease? Nothing that stands out other than both parents with high cholesterol
Are you overweight? A little 5'10 @ 190
How old are you? 52
How high is your cholesterol? The numbers I spotted were 255 - 180
LDL?
HDL?
Triglycerides? I didn't ask
Do you have hypertension? 120/70

My complete profile is at http//:datehunk.com Just kidding, thanks for asking.
 
#5 ·
fred-da-trog said:
[QUOTE My complete profile is at http//:datehunk.com Just kidding, thanks for asking.
Great, that was going to be my recommendation..have more sex!

Seriously though, Peanuthead was right you should contact your physician ASAP and let him know you are experiencing muscle pain and muscle fatigue which are very common side effects of statin drugs. Your physician might check for an increase in your creatine phosphokinase (CPK) values. If your CPK levels are significantly elevated and you are experiencing spreading muscle pain and/or weakness it might be time to be switched off of lipitor.

It looks like you have given it 5 years of diet and excercise with no success. I have seen people get good results on Niacin supplements and Niacin drugs, so maybe have a discussion with your physician about some alternatives to lipitor.

Please see your doctor though as online medical advice is a scary thing in itself :D
 
#6 ·
Maybe this is a little off-topic but have any of you heard the debate over whether or not cholesterol is even bad for you? Apparently, there isn't a strong link between cholesterol level and heart problems. Just as many people with low cholesterol have heart attacks compared to those with so-called high cholesterol. One source said that heart troubles are caused by the arterial plaque that builds up after eating red meat and that plaque (or maybe it was the acids that are somehow associated with the plaque) can be combated with folic acid after eating meals of red meat. The inference being that "high cholesterol" is only a problem because drug companies can sell you something to fight it.

All of this is just based on 2nd hand info and a local column written by some athletic trainer (who wants everyone to eat more protein / red meat) so don't take any of it with too much authority. I just bring it up because you say your family has a history of high cholesterol, not necessarily heart disease.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Have you tried Herbs?

Hawthorn Berry ( HerbaCrataegus laevigata ) is an herb used succesfully by Chinese herbalist to lower Cholesterol and improve digestion. It is called Shan Zha in Chinese and is in the category of reducing food stagnation. It is high in anti-oxidant flavinoids and improves cardiac blood flow...
I have seen this herb used to reduce B.P. and LDL levels after four weeks of use. The only know side effect is hypotension (low B.P.) with higher doses...
You can research more about the benefits of hawthorn, evaluate your diet ( Oatmeal works ) and drink Green Tea daily (3-5 cups) to lower LDL, stabilize blood glucose levels, improve energy and protect against many cancers...
Good luck,
Jefe'
 
#8 · (Edited)
More info.!

What is your diet really like?

I ask because, for instance, the Americans with Diabetes Association's long-time recommeded diet actually made for worse-off insulin issues. The no/low fat recommendations they outlined proved to just drive up portal vein/liver inundation, and subsequent insulin spikes and fat storage!

From the posts I can recall about you & your adventures, seems to me like you're out riding a good amount, and not entirely unhealthy. ;) I'd suggest looking at another 'diet', that includes a balance of HEALTHY fats & cholesterol, as you NEED the good to get the bad out.
 
#9 ·
No medical advice here...

Just remember there's a big difference between having a "life" and being merely alive.

If it stops you riding, is it worth it?
 
#10 · (Edited)
Not PC

fred-da-trog said:
The doc and I have finally gave up on diet and exercise to control my cholesterol and stuck me on Lipitor. Family history suggests I'm doomed to meds. Seems like I've lost all energy and my muscles are sore enough I don't care if I ride or not. Will someone please put me out of my misery or maybe (preferably) suggest something else.
That's what finally got me to go veggie, vegan at home, occasional cheese or eggs (which make me ill if I eat much of that while traveling). I was already exercising a ton and eating well below the MD recommended "low" cholesterol recommendations. I didn't want to be a drug dependant. There are side effects as you are noticing. There are also some fallacies about low cholesterol. Apparently higher cholesterol is more healthy for people over 55. I don't know specifics.

My whole health improved. After years of increasing allergies and quarterly flues lasting 4 - 6 weeks. Now I've nearly eliminated all flues and I now have no allergy symptoms.

My cholesterol dropped, my body makes enough of it's own. My physical endurance to ride longer distance improved, and my ability to concentrate long hours at work is improved too.

I enjoy a much wider range for foods and flavors. And cost of food is lower.

There are many do-gooder positives too. But the moral, poor health effects, and environmental destruction issues of animal farming are hot button issues stronger than religious or political issues in the western world.

Ask Jack Lalain who turned veggie at age 55. He's 90 and still pumped up and pulling semi-trucks around.

- ray
 
#11 ·
fred-da-trog said:
The doc and I have finally gave up on diet and exercise to control my cholesterol and stuck me on Lipitor. Family history suggests I'm doomed to meds. Seems like I've lost all energy and my muscles are sore enough I don't care if I ride or not. Will someone please put me out of my misery or maybe (preferably) suggest something else.
If the doc hasn't had you have your liver function tested after you started taking the drug, I think that is a mistake. I started taking Zocor a month ago ('cause the insurance wouldn't cover Lipitor, as originally prescribed) and I took a bllod test at 2 weeks and at 4 weeks (yesterday) after starting the drug. The two week test result was 'OK' and the doc takes this seriously enough that she wouldn't renew my prescription until after she sees the results of the 4 week test.

I also was sent to a 2-session 'heart smart' class where I learned a great deal about different types of fat, and some of the newer research that may result in more detailed blood tests being done, instead of the usual HDL/LDL triglycerides tests being done routinely today.

Simple take-aways - stay off the transfats (never eat anything with hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated in the ingredients labels) as these increase total cholesterol through raising LDL (the bad stuff) and lowering HDL (the good stuff). Polyunsaturated fats are the good ones, they tend to lower LDL , the ones with omega-3 fatty acids are the best. Learn to enjoy salmon, herring, anchovies, sardines, mackeral. :eek:
 
#12 ·
dir-T said:
Maybe this is a little off-topic but have any of you heard the debate over whether or not cholesterol is even bad for you? Apparently, there isn't a strong link between cholesterol level and heart problems. Just as many people with low cholesterol have heart attacks compared to those with so-called high cholesterol. One source said that heart troubles are caused by the arterial plaque that builds up after eating red meat and that plaque (or maybe it was the acids that are somehow associated with the plaque) can be combated with folic acid after eating meals of red meat. The inference being that "high cholesterol" is only a problem because drug companies can sell you something to fight it.

All of this is just based on 2nd hand info and a local column written by some athletic trainer (who wants everyone to eat more protein / red meat) so don't take any of it with too much authority. I just bring it up because you say your family has a history of high cholesterol, not necessarily heart disease.
You are not off the mark. Reduction of cholesterol levels with statins is linked with a 16-32% reduction risk of heart attack... in high risk people. That is the bit they don't tell you. High risk people are those with high blood pressure, obese and who smoke. There are many more factors to your health than cholesterol. Don't believe the hype.
 
#14 ·
Thanks everyone

I have to admit my "diet" changes were to elimnate some cheeseburgers and a some extra red meat and little else. I figured all the biking should compensate for my poor diet. I'm thankful to those of you that saw through that and called me on it.. I've sat down and done some research for a serious diet that I can stick to. I've called the doc for a med change and have stopped taking Lipitor since Sunday. I starting to feel "normal"(?) already. Off I go to the grocer's produce section. Thanks again. -fdt
 
#15 ·
fred-da-trog said:
The doc and I have finally gave up on diet and exercise to control my cholesterol and stuck me on Lipitor. Family history suggests I'm doomed to meds. Seems like I've lost all energy and my muscles are sore enough I don't care if I ride or not. Will someone please put me out of my misery or maybe (preferably) suggest something else.
I'm sure that your doctor has mentioned why he put you on medication. As I understood, there are cases (who has high risk factors) that diet and exercise alone would not be enough to control the "bad" cholesterol - LDL, a cholesterol lowering drug is needed.

What (muscles tenderness) you've experienced is one of the side effects of taking these drugs (statins - Lipitor, Zocor.....)

I have some relative/family members who have been on both Lipitor and Zocor for years and have had no problem. They watch their diet and exercise daily, however.

Here's some general info regarding cholesterol from the WebMD if you're interested in...

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/98/104659.htm

I hope you'll get back your engery and your riding soon. Hiking/running can be fun too.

Good luck,

Tammy
 
#16 ·
fred-da-trog said:
I have to admit my "diet" changes were to elimnate some cheeseburgers and a some extra red meat and little else. I figured all the biking should compensate for my poor diet. I'm thankful to those of you that saw through that and called me on it.. I've sat down and done some research for a serious diet that I can stick to. I've called the doc for a med change and have stopped taking Lipitor since Sunday. I starting to feel "normal"(?) already. Off I go to the grocer's produce section. Thanks again. -fdt
Good news! Another american off the status-quo pill-centric-pharmacopia medical BS. Or at least off one of 'em. :D Eat a balanced diet of wholesome foods. This is 95% of the battle. Check Dr. Dianna Schwartzbein's book "The Schwartzbein Principal" for a point-of-departure in building a healthy diet - and what it will do to make you feel better; from seratonin levels to energy and health.

FWIW, watch out for too much fruit - unless it's got a good balance of sugar (though natural, it's still suger) and FIBER! Good luck.

Frank Lloyd Wright, the famous Architect, died thin & fit and still gettin' the ladies with his mantra:

"Anything in moderation"
 
#17 ·
Better diets can be just as satisfying as our old habits

fred-da-trog said:
I have to admit my "diet" changes were to elimnate some cheeseburgers and a some extra red meat and little else. I figured all the biking should compensate for my poor diet. I'm thankful to those of you that saw through that and called me on it.. I've sat down and done some research for a serious diet that I can stick to. I've called the doc for a med change and have stopped taking Lipitor since Sunday. I starting to feel "normal"(?) already. Off I go to the grocer's produce section. Thanks again. -fdt
As you have noted, most people's initial dietary changes are nothing short of "wimpy"....

Most Americans could cut their intake of meats, "full fat" dairy, eggs (whites OK), and oils in half and never even miss the stuff or lack any needed protein...
What I did was cut all those....animal products and oils in half (or more) and filled my stomach by tripling my veggies, and increasing my whole grains......pasta, rice, oatmeal etc.
I get enough protein, and my stomach is filled to full, yet my weight dropped and my cholesterol numbers got better.

BTW, if you can, find a good produce store. Usually they have fresher veggies, and more selection than the supermarket.. Start trying new kinds of veggies. After living in Asia I discovered so many new veggies and many of them are now available in a good produce store. The usual American veggies can become very boring.
I now look forward to the veggies and salads as much or more then my shrinking meat portion. I probably eat about 1/3 the portion of meat and still have all the energy for biking.

I'd bet......that without meds......you can easily get your cholesterol under 200 without eating a diet that is too weird..
In fact you mention family history......genetics. Actually the biggest factor in family history is the family tradition of eating the typical American diet.
I am positive that if your family had somehow grown up in rural China, your family "history" or genetics, would have your cholesterol under 175.....
You don't have to become a vegetarian......just slowly head in that direction until you reach your comfort level. If you slowly shift to smaller and smaller portions of meat and full fat dairy, you won't even miss the larger portions. Five or six fork fulls of meat become just as enjoyable as fifteen used to be. Same with ice cream.

Slow steady steps will give you great long term results in the same way that slow steady progress in cycling fitness yields amazing results over a few years.
 
#18 ·
Same problem and I'm only 34. I switched immediately from breakfast sandwiches at home everyday to oatmeal with blueberries, flaxseed meal and soy milk. I did away with a lot of red meat and poultry and tried to eat more fish like salmon.
In one year, I lost 20 lbs and dropped 10 points from my overall cholesterol and my triglycerides were half of the previous #. I also stopped eating anything with hydrogenated oils.
Sticking with it this year and hoping to drop another 10 points.
I just ordered a cookbook on the Mediterranean Diet which is supposed to be great for lowering cholesterol.
 
#19 ·
i'm on both sides, soon to be vegan and pharm rep lipitor guy. Bashing companies aint gonna get you nowhere but higher blood pressure, don't let them win. Who's worse, a drug that has been proven to prevent Cardiovascular events or chicken and other companies who pump millions of doses of antibiotics into everything we eat,,,,,why, b/c we want it and can pay for it.

This is such a huge topic, i'm not gonna tow the line for pharmaceutical companies but everything in life is a risk/benefit ratio. Many products cause myopathy and it's documented to be only about 3-5%. You may hear of the ones who have it b/c in our society(and even in mtn biking) it's easier to complain than it is to praise the good things. I'm not trying to say our industry is perfect, who's is? Is the company your working for sucking taxes out of the community, dumping waste, charging workers for healthcare that is way out of their range, polluting the air???? we live in a world where everyone is out to get theirs, it's that simple. We don't trust eachother anymore.....doctors hate patients, patients hate doctors, nurses hate doctors it goes on and on. What i do know is these products do save lives and their is a large amount of data to support it.

it's easy to use the "man who" statistic(i know a guy who smoked till he was 95, i guess it doesn't kill ya!) Jack LaLane also worked out everyday took vitatimins and had an immune system that was of a 20 year old. His juicer ironically takes all the micronutrients apart and if your a whole food nut you could argue that point, but i'd rather him be out there pushing a healthy lifestyle.

this truly is a broad topic but i ask that you bash me respectfully :)

hey, anybody want to ride


p.s. ldl 195, i asked for 6 more months before i would bring on the meds
 
#21 ·
My overall cholesterol is way under 200

fred-da-trog said:
The doc and I have finally gave up on diet and exercise to control my cholesterol and stuck me on Lipitor. Family history suggests I'm doomed to meds. Seems like I've lost all energy and my muscles are sore enough I don't care if I ride or not. Will someone please put me out of my misery or maybe (preferably) suggest something else.
I'm not bragging, this site is filled with healthy people, my diet is fair at best and I carry 5 to 10 lbs of excess, the thing I'm wondering is if moderate alcohol and moderate THC use along with intense cardio workouts have any thing to do with my low stress & low cholestrerol.
 
#22 ·
Bike Nazi said:
I'm not bragging, this site is filled with healthy people, my diet is fair at best and I carry 5 to 10 lbs of excess, the thing I'm wondering is if moderate alcohol and moderate THC use along with intense cardio workouts have any thing to do with my low stress & low cholestrerol.
i personally think its more of a genetic thing, for example, my wife loves red meat, eats it 3-5 times per week, doesn't do too much cardio exercising and her cholesterol is 150 ish, i eat red meat maybe 1-2 times per week, ride a lot, exercise a lot and mine is around the 200 mark, go figure...ever read or hear about the book eat right for your blood type? i thought it was crap until i found our i have A blood and red meat isn't recommended and my wife is O and red meat seems ok for her...i do think low stress in life is helpful too...
 
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