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  1. #251
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    "The rain drops make holes in stone not by violence but by oft falling" -some guy I don't remember.
    Point is, little things add up. And you end up with a holey stone. no need of revolutions every time.
    It's pronounced "so pro and cool."
    It was an impulse decision.

  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    "The rain drops make holes in stone not by violence but by oft falling" -some guy I don't remember.
    Point is, little things add up. And you end up with a holey stone. no need of revolutions every time.
    Which is also fine with me. I really don't need a revolution.

    What ticks me off, is that nothing much is happening lately, besides making things incompatible, disguised as development.


    Magura

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    Yet nobody besides you have brought up that topic in this thread.

    So get your female hormones under control, and quit reading stuff that people don't type

    Magura
    What do you think "it is the Indian not the arrow" means?

    Maybe you better check your own female hormones out before you try commenting on others.

    kjlued

  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    What do you think "it is the Indian not the arrow" means?

    Maybe you better check your own female hormones out before you try commenting on others.

    kjlued
    It means either that Indians are troublemakers, and can't be trusted, or that he also pointed out that it's the man, not the equipment

    Nobody in this thread till that post, had claimed that equipment was the major factor....later it went downhill though.

    Magura

  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    Bikes still have 2 wheels, fat tires, gears, seats and handlebars. Overall they are the pretty much the same.

    Frame materials have improved allowing for lighter bikes, but to to some degree they have offset by other things.

    In the end a good rider on old bike and still ride the same trails as before. He or she may not be able to go quite as fast it is can still be done. Look 40 year ago mtn biking did not really exist so change does happen, but right now we are in the refinement phase. The first big revolution was create mtn bike in first place. That means double triangle bike with "fat" tires with gears and an intended purpose of riding in the dirt another rough surfaces.

    The next revolution front suspension. The one following that was rear suspension. Since then there have been refinements to a lot of things. The funny thing about even these "revolutions" is that while most people run front suspension there are some that chose not to. There are even more still that chose to not run rear suspension. So that while the are revolutionary they are not not requirements either.






    There improvements are detail changes and refinements. People would like to say a 10 speed drive train is 100% better than a 7 speed, but really it is not. It is a refinement and if used properly and improvement, but a minor one. On a recreational trail ride it not big deal either way. Still given the choice I would rather use my 9 spd vs the 7 spd on my 1998 bike. Even so I can't really say my riding got "better" on the 9 spd.

    As for racing... I did one race for the fun of it. I will do some additional ones. I will not race to win, but I always give 100% because it is what I do. Now if I really wanted to dedicate myself to winning races I would start with a lot of training. Lots more than I do now and I know I don't have time for that. Then I would try to eek out every less ounce of speed from my bike. I have background in club level car racing so I know what it takes to race competitively. A few years ago I placed 4 in my class at the national championship race. I lead half the race and finished 4th 2.5 seconds out of the lead after 40 min. This is in a class where all the cars are "identical". I built and maintained my car myself so I know what it takes to try to get 100% from something. On race bike ounce make a difference and you need the latest whiz bang gizmo because seconds matter. What I am doing now on bike is far cry from that so I see no need to chase the latest "go fast" stuff. I am tired of that. I prefer to have fun of competition without the work it takes to win. I train when I can and race what I have. I give my 100% on course, but realize I will never win and just hope to be in the pack having fun. That goal is achieved even on an old bike because fundamentally the old bike is still competent with a competent rider. There more difference in rider skills and fitness separating overall field of riders in mtn bike race than in the equipment old or new.



    This is quite true... and it is why they like to change standards and come out with new "must have" "Revolutionary" products each year.

    Cars for that last 20+ years still just have pretty much 4 wheels, seats and motor, otherwise they are pretty much the same. Which is why I don't feel compelled to have a brand new one. However, they still continually come up refinements compelling people to buy them. So what is your point.

    Every industry will come up with newer greater "must have" stuff otherwise they will go out of business. If they kept just producing the same products, people would just be happy with the old and never buy new and replace unless it broke.

    However, you still have a choice to keep what you have and be happy or be a sheep and follow the flock. In all honesty this whole thread comes across as sour grapes.

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    It means either that Indians are troublemakers, and can't be trusted, or that he also pointed out that it's the man, not the equipment

    Nobody in this thread till that post, had claimed that equipment was the major factor....later it went downhill though.

    Magura
    Yes, but you said I was commenting on something that somebody didn't right.

    Anyways, most threads go down hill after a the first couple pages.

    Trying to insult people doesn't help.

  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Cars for that last 20+ years still just have pretty much 4 wheels, seats and motor, otherwise they are pretty much the same. Which is why I don't feel compelled to have a brand new one. However, they still continually come up refinements compelling people to buy them. So what is your point.

    Every industry will come up with newer greater "must have" stuff otherwise they will go out of business. If they kept just producing the same products, people would just be happy with the old and never buy new and replace unless it broke.

    However, you still have a choice to keep what you have and be happy or be a sheep and follow the flock. In all honesty this whole thread comes across as sour grapes.
    The car industry actually makes game changing developments on regular basis.

    For instance ABS, traction control, collision control, parking aid, air bags, active suspension, and so on.

    Those things actually slowly sifts down to even cheap cars today, making them a lot safer.
    The bike industry on the other hand, is comparatively at pretty much a standstill.


    Magura

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Yes, but you said I was commenting on something that somebody didn't right.

    Anyways, most threads go down hill after a the first couple pages.

    Trying to insult people doesn't help.
    No offense intended.
    Sorry if it looked that way.
    I figured a smiley made it obvious that it was tongue in cheek.


    Magura

  9. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    The car industry actually makes game changing developments on regular basis.

    For instance ABS, traction control, collision control, parking aid, air bags, active suspension, and so on.

    Those things actually slowly sifts down to even cheap cars today, making them a lot safer.
    The bike industry on the other hand, is comparatively at pretty much a standstill.


    Magura
    Yeah, but a lot of that stuff has been around for 20 years.

    Me, I would rather own a 20 year old car, pay $1000-$1500 for it, drive it for a few years to the wheels are ready to fall off and sell it somebody that whats a mechanic special for $500.

    Why? As much as the newest latest greatest thing would be nice, I can't justify spending that kind of money for something I pretty much only use to only get me to the trail and back and the occasional road trip to see family. (I do have a company truck though).

    Bikes are no different.
    The old stuff will do the job, you pedal they go.
    But without innovations, no matter how small, people would no longer feel compelled to buy and companies would go out of business. The worst part about that is that less competition means less R&D which means the next big thing may never be invented.

    Although the bike companies keep making changes, nobody forces anyone to buy them.

  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    No offense intended.
    Sorry if it looked that way.
    I figured a smiley made it obvious that it was tongue in cheek.


    Magura

    I never take offense to anything typed on the internet.

    Just couldn't figure why you thought I was commenting on something that nobody wrote especially after I put it in bold type.

  11. #261
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    FIGHT THE POWER!

    Seriously, I had a square taper BB back in the day and that thing couldnt handle the riding I did, it was loose every night after a day of riding. Octalink worked great but I dropped over a pound when I switched to a two piecer with hollow BB.
    I think the OP probably has the right idea, ride what you have and enjoy it, but don't try to take away everyone else's enjoyment in buying new stuff all the time. Just remember that a portion of what people are spending makes its way into the hands of the people who build and maintain trails.
    And any sport that is not evolving is dying, so there are your two choices. Just relax and go ride.
    Flyin the TallBoy...Clyde style.


    SOMEBODY I LOVE NEEDS A HEART!

    I AM AN ORGAN DONOR, ARE YOU?

  12. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzlyplumber View Post
    And any sport that is not evolving is dying, so there are your two choices. Just relax and go ride.
    See this is most likely very true.

    I'm all for real development, actually I'd prefer to be able to just go and buy the bits I need off the shelf.
    Fact is that I still make a load of parts myself, cause the development is hardly there in the industry.

    So don't get me wrong, I'd love to see real development, it's the goofy marketing BS, and wannabee development that gives nothing but compatibility issues, that I don't like so much.


    Magura

  13. #263
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    Magura, are you implying that MTBing is dying?
    It's pronounced "so pro and cool."
    It was an impulse decision.

  14. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    Magura, are you implying that MTBing is dying?
    Not tomorrow, but with time MTBing is getting less, if the industry don't get going.

    This would not be the first time something similar has happened.

    The industry has put emphasis on equipment and technology, but fail to deliver.
    That situation can be saved by the marketing departments for a while, but not in the long run.

    At some point even the most dense customers, are going to figure that "upgrades" are not really anything but change. At that point, selling new high $$ gear is going to be hard.


    Magura

  15. #265
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    Actually, I think the mountain biking industry and the bicycle industry as a whole is exactly where it needs to be in order to grow.

    It is proving it can hold through tough economic times.
    Sure, maybe some of the small time shops and high end frame builders can't compete in these tough economic times and they end up fading away which is a shame but the industry itself will hold strong.

    Also, because of these economic times, people are choosing cheaper affordable forms of transportation such as bicycles.

    We are are finally catching on to environmental awareness.
    More people are using human power to move themselves and although this does not generally affect the mountain biking industry directly, it does affect the biking industry as a whole.

    People are becoming more health conscious. Almost anyone can bicycle and it is a fun affordable way to get exercise (well affordable if you don't have to have the latest greatest innovations lol)

    So to say the industry would die is a little foolish.

    I honestly don't know what kinds of leaps and bounds anyone expects to be delivered in new innovations because when it comes right down to it, it will still always be two wheels, pedals and handlebars.

  16. #266
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    If you take a look at the facts, the use of bicycles as transportation globally is decreasing, and has been since 2001.

    The number of bikes sold is dropping, the use of bicycles (total ridden distance) is dropping,and the number of commuters is dropping.

    Now where do you see the industry doing well?

    The above is from figures obtained about the situation in Denmark, but the rest of the world seems to show a similar tendency.

    None of this has anything to do with the topic at hand though, so I'm not sure why you brought it up ?

    The sports segment of the industry is not doing well in any way. A few big brands are at status quo, the rest are doing whatever they can to stay alive, which in most cases has meant minimal quality, minimal development, and manufacturing in Asia.

    Magura

  17. #267
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    Come to think of it, a good example of how little development there really is in the industry, is the new suspension company called DVO.

    They did a bit of real development work, and put a bit of cash towards development as well.
    I'll bet you they are going to prove poisonous to many of the established manufacturers, as they for the most part, have tried to keep development at a bare minimum, and had the marketing departments take care of the rest.


    Magura

  18. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    None of this has anything to do with the topic at hand though, so I'm not sure why you brought it up ?

    Actually, you brought it up.

  19. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Actually, you brought it up.
    I was talking about the sports segment of the industry, as this entire thread is about that.
    I did not say anything about the bicycle industry as a whole.

    Anyhow, both are not doing too well. I guess for different reasons though


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  20. #270
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    Well, regardless, it really doesn't matter as this thread has really gone through 11 pages of nonsense that will never achieve anything. I mean honestly do you think the bicycle industry will cave in to a plea that makes people not want to buy new stuff?

    It really is quite simple.

    They will keep developing changes and if people don't think it is worth it then don't buy it.
    If your old bike is good enough then love it and ride it.
    If it makes you feel like a better rider because you just got the latest piece of carbon fiber bling then get it. Buy or keep whatever makes you smile but don't b!tch and whine because the industry is profit driven.

    (Not directed at you or anyone in particular)

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    (I know this has been beaten to death by now but I want to offer my insight anyway)

    I get frustrated by all the different standards too. Trying to buy a new frame without needing a new seatpost, fork, rear wheel and BB is getting increasingly difficult. I need a new front derailleur and it's almost easier just to buy the whole drivetrain so don't have to worry about 49.5 vs. 51mm spacing, 8 vs. 9 vs. 10 speed, etc.

    However to think that the 'bike industry' is intentionally pulling one over on us, going "heh heh this will get them to buy more stuff" is a conspiracy theory well removed from the real world. There is a huge amount of engineering going into components all the time, by a lot of different companies.

    Let's take the various new rear axle standards for instance. They crop up because related technologies (full suspension bike frames with lots of pivots) make them relevant (rear ends are flexier with all these pivots, and we're riding said frames harder than ever). A large part of why we end up with way too many different 'standards' is because a lot of different companies are working on the new designs simultaneously. Company A has already put hundred of engineering hours into their design by the time Company B releases their design.

    Kudos to companies that are making their product adaptable (such as replaceable ends on Hope hubs) to help alleviate the problem.

  22. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Well, regardless, it really doesn't matter as this thread has really gone through 11 pages of nonsense that will never achieve anything. I mean honestly do you think the bicycle industry will cave in to a plea that makes people not want to buy new stuff?

    It really is quite simple.

    They will keep developing changes and if people don't think it is worth it then don't buy it.
    If your old bike is good enough then love it and ride it.
    If it makes you feel like a better rider because you just got the latest piece of carbon fiber bling then get it. Buy or keep whatever makes you smile but don't b!tch and whine because the industry is profit driven.

    (Not directed at you or anyone in particular)
    You don't see me whine, I merely stated an observation of that the industry is not making the best of the situation

    If the industry would focus on getting forward, instead of claiming to move forward, and going all kinds of directions, they could put the money in development, sack 80% of the marketing budget, and come out ahead.

    Personally I don't give a rats ass what the industry does, as I make most of my stuff myself these days.


    Magura

  23. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    Personally I don't give a rats ass what the industry does
    Then why do you keep endlessly arguing with everyone about what the industry is doing? While you're posting your smileys faces all over the place, like you're trying to make people feel good while you're endlessly tearing them a new ahole, because they have a different opinion.

  24. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Then why do you keep endlessly arguing with everyone about what the industry is doing? While you're posting your smileys faces all over the place, like you're trying to make people feel good while you're endlessly tearing them a new ahole, because they have a different opinion.
    That's called having a discussion, and has nothing to do with tearing anybody a new ahole.

    That some are unable to have a discussion, without feeling stepped on by anybody who don't share their point of view, or even worse back up their claims with evidence, is really their own problem.
    This seems to be an issue to some here, so I suggest those don't engage in discussions, if all they want is to state their opinion, and be padded on the back, no matter how far their opinion may be from reality.


    Magura

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    You're having a discussion about something that you, " don't give a rats ass" about. So, it seems like your primary purpose for being at this thread is just to argue with people.

  26. #276
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    I think what Magura sees as "different", others recognize to be better. External bearing, tapered steerers, post mount, 31.8 wide bars, 12 x 142, 15mm, XX1, etc. are not just arbitrary changes. They were created in response to problems with older stuff like 9mm, square taper, 1 x 10, 25.4 bars, 1 1/8 steerers etc. They aren't all bad, and they still exist today. But the new stuff is for those who need more out of their bikes, and who have absolutely no room for compromise.
    It's pronounced "so pro and cool."
    It was an impulse decision.

  27. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    or even worse back up their claims with evidence

    I am pretty sure I can back up my claims

    Industry Overview 2011 - National Bicycle Dealers Association

    Bike Europe - Bicycling is Booming in Britain, Says London School of Economics

    Now, can you?

  28. #278
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    Oh believe me, he'll have some argumentative comeback. Wait, let me get my popcorn!

  29. #279
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    Bike Europe - Market Report

    All but E-bikes are not doing well, and have not for a number of years by now.

    I have been unable to find substantiated numbers for the states.

    The numbers you got, are about all bikes, not even just the sport segment, let alone the MTB sport segment.


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  30. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    You're having a discussion about something that you, " don't give a rats ass" about. So, it seems like your primary purpose for being at this thread is just to argue with people.
    Try looking up the words "discussion" and "argument".

    Quite a difference, until somebody gets his panties in a bunch, and turns the discussion into an argument, due to his hurt ego.


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  31. #281
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    ^ you might try to read the articles that you just posted. They look pretty positive to me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    I think what Magura sees as "different", others recognize to be better. External bearing, tapered steerers, post mount, 31.8 wide bars, 12 x 142, 15mm, XX1, etc. are not just arbitrary changes. They were created in response to problems with older stuff like 9mm, square taper, 1 x 10, 25.4 bars, 1 1/8 steerers etc. They aren't all bad, and they still exist today. But the new stuff is for those who need more out of their bikes, and who have absolutely no room for compromise.
    Naah, I agree that 31.8 bars are better, 20mm axles too, also external BB's.
    They solved issues.
    Those inventions are though like 10 years old by now.

    The rest are diminishing improvements at best, if any at all, as I recall them.

    It's the lack of such during the last 10 years I am pointing out.

    Actually the front axle circus is a good example.
    The 20mm 110mm standard was more or less a standard followed by everybody.
    All of a sudden, somebody (Fox as I recall) decided to make a 15mm version. That offered absolutely nothing but change and another goofy "standard".

    Magura

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    ^ you might try to read the articles that you just posted. They look pretty positive to me!
    If you look a bit in depth, you'll find that they're positive due to the hope of the downwards development of the market, is about to change.

    It's been going downwards since like 2002 as I recall, and there is a long way till they're back up where they were in 2000.


    Magura

  34. #284
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    I posted about this in a thread last year, in short the entire industry is worth 6 billion dollars in sales, the same as it was 30 years ago. It rises and falls a bit year to year, but for all intents and purposes there is no significant growth (in dollars) across more than a few decades. Fighting for the same dollars does not indicate any growth, so the companies are fighting for their share of the same market total. If you add inflation to the figures it bodes even worse.

  35. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post


    The numbers you got, are about all bikes, not even just the sport segment, let alone the MTB sport segment.


    Magura
    Read on and you might learn something.

    The firs link goes on to break it down to the percentage of sales vs type of bike.

    Not Magura

  36. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Read on and you might learn something.

    The firs link goes on to break it down to the percentage of sales vs type of bike.

    Not Magura
    Thanks for the hint.

    Now that you point me to it, why didn't you read it?

    MTB marketshare in 2005 = 29%
    MTB marketshare in 2011 = 23%

    That does not look like a market that is doing good.


    Magura

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    I posted about this in a thread last year, in short the entire industry is worth 6 billion dollars in sales, the same as it was 30 years ago. It rises and falls a bit year to year, but for all intents and purposes there is no significant growth (in dollars) across more than a few decades. Fighting for the same dollars does not indicate any growth, so the companies are fighting for their share of the same market total. If you add inflation to the figures it bodes even worse.
    You also have to factor in that in a lot of countries, populations are no longer increasing. In some European countries the populations are getting smaller. That's one reason why the global economy has been suffering for the last few years. Our whole economic system is based on the need for constant growth in order to do well. Compared to the global economy, the bike industry is holding up pretty well.

  38. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    Thanks for the hint.

    Now that you point me to it, why didn't you read it?

    MTB marketshare in 2005 = 29%
    MTB marketshare in 2011 = 23%

    That does not look like a market that is doing good.


    Magura
    Yes I did and don't consider 6% to be a significant change or the death of mountain biking.
    However since 2006 it has only slightly fluctuated which probably means that in 2005 it simply had a spike. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

    Still not Magura

  39. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    I posted about this in a thread last year, in short the entire industry is worth 6 billion dollars in sales, the same as it was 30 years ago. It rises and falls a bit year to year, but for all intents and purposes there is no significant growth (in dollars) across more than a few decades. Fighting for the same dollars does not indicate any growth, so the companies are fighting for their share of the same market total. If you add inflation to the figures it bodes even worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    You also have to factor in that in a lot of countries, populations are no longer increasing. In some European countries the populations are getting smaller. That's one reason why the global economy has been suffering for the last few years. Our whole economic system is based on the need for constant growth in order to do well. Compared to the global economy, the bike industry is holding up pretty well.


    ^ So, it makes perfect sense that the bike industry is trending sideways.

  40. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    ^ So, it makes perfect sense that the bike industry is trending sideways.
    Trending sideways is a good thing in these economic times especially since for many, a bicycle is a luxury item (especially a mountain bike).

  41. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Trending sideways is a good thing in these economic times especially since for many, a bicycle is a luxury item (especially a mountain bike).
    Thank you!!

  42. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Yes I did and don't consider 6% to be a significant change or the death of mountain biking.
    However since 2006 it has only slightly fluctuated which probably means that in 2005 it simply had a spike. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

    Still not Magura
    6% of the total market, yes, and 20% of the MTB market.

    The numbers you can see everywhere else, supports that from 2002 till today, the loss of MTB market, is on the other side of 20%, so obviously 2005 is not a spike.

    Magura

  43. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    Bike Europe - Market Report

    All but E-bikes are not doing well, and have not for a number of years by now.

    I have been unable to find substantiated numbers for the states.

    The numbers you got, are about all bikes, not even just the sport segment, let alone the MTB sport segment.


    Magura
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    Thanks for the hint.

    Now that you point me to it, why didn't you read it?

    MTB marketshare in 2005 = 29%
    MTB marketshare in 2011 = 23%

    That does not look like a market that is doing good.


    Magura
    If you take the relatively new Ebike market out, you will see that it is doing very well.

  44. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    If you take the relatively new Ebike market out, you will see that it is doing very well.
    The E-bike market is doing well yes, but the rest are not.

    So far all the numbers you have supplied, and the numbers I have supplied, establish that the MTB market is not doing well.


    Magura

  45. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    6% of the total market, yes, and 20% of the MTB market.

    The numbers you can see everywhere else, supports that from 2002 till today, the loss of MTB market, is on the other side of 20%, so obviously 2005 is not a spike.

    Magura
    Post these so called numbers

    Again though, a mountain bike is a luxury item.

    Motorcycle sales have been down over the years too.
    Do you think that means the end of motorcycling is down?

    No, it just means people are not spending as much money during these times on things that are necessities.

    Still happy to not be Magura

    (BTW, off topic but in all honesty why the hell do people feel the need to sign their posts with their user name? It isn't like we can't see it on the side. )

  46. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Post these so called numbers
    To be honest, I can't be bothered to spend time searching for it.
    Those numbers are all in bits and pieces, can't seem to find one single sheet that shows all the years globally, but the trend is the same all over.

    2000 to 2002 were the top MTB years, and it has slowly gone downhill from that point, with some ups and downs in the mix.


    Magura

  47. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    To be honest, I can't be bothered to spend time searching for it.
    Those numbers are all in bits and pieces, can't seem to find one single sheet that shows all the years globally, but the trend is the same all over.

    2000 to 2002 were the top MTB years, and it has slowly gone downhill from that point, with some ups and downs in the mix.


    Magura
    If I said the sky was blue on a clear day, you would argue it.

  48. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    To be honest, I can't be bothered to spend time searching for it.
    Those numbers are all in bits and pieces, can't seem to find one single sheet that shows all the years globally, but the trend is the same all over.

    2000 to 2002 were the top MTB years, and it has slowly gone downhill from that point, with some ups and downs in the mix.


    Magura
    Can't be bothered to spend the time searching for it but you can spend countless time to make posts in a thread arguing it.

    I suppose we will just have to take your word for it.

  49. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Can't be bothered to spend the time searching for it but you can spend countless time to make posts in a thread arguing it.

    I suppose we will just have to take your word for it.
    Don't forget, that's for an industry that he doesn't, "give a rats ass" about. He's to busy making his own parts. Unbelievable!

    Oh wait I forgot the

  50. #300
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    I think Magura is losing, so I'll see if I can't help him.
    Magura makes his own parts because the industry doesn't make better stuff anymore. It just makes different stuff. He feels no reason to "upgrade".
    So, he has shunned the biking industry and all of its hype. He does not give a rat's ass about the industry because, in his opinion, it has come to a standstill.
    However, he would care about the industry if it stopped marketing these relatively insignificant changes as revolutions and put that money into RnD. But they don't, which is what he is saying.
    Am I right, Magura?
    It's pronounced "so pro and cool."
    It was an impulse decision.

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