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An open letter to the bike industry

31K views 387 replies 136 participants last post by  fenix501 
#1 ·
An open letter to the bike industry

Dear Bike Industry,

I’m beginning to feel that you don’t have myself and my fellow rider’s best interest at heart, all you seem to be interested in is creating new “standards” and try to force people to buy them under the auspice that the new “standard” is better than before. I would like to think that most cyclists are a savvy bunch, but we do glom onto new tech with eagerness, a fault that you (the bicycle industry) seems more than happy to exploit.
Every year there’s a new bottom bracket “standard”. Something becomes a standard once it is in wide, common, and accepted use like a square taper bb. I have never felt the need to put any of these new, false standards on my bike instead of using a tried and true standard. I think you need to think about how you label all of these pointless bottom bracket options out there. The advantages are nominal to the rider, and only serve to create more niche markets and confuse new riders that get overwhelmed by all the “standards” that have been made. Shame on you. The people that can really gain any benefit if at all from any of these alleged improvements are pro racers, and pro races get their bikes and parts for free, we, the majority of the bike buying public have to pay for our stuff. Did my square tape bb suddenly stop working after years of loyal service and 1000’s of miles? No, it did not. My mountain bike is old for sure and my friends that have newer bikes are still behind me just like they are before they had a new bike with all of the new “improvements” in technology, I expected them to leave me in the dust being that I have only 21 speeds and they 30, but alas it did not happen. I also find it funny that I having 21 speeds never once thought I could make this traverse or climb that section of trail if I only had some more gears, and now you try and sell me less gears in the form of a 2 x10 drive train for more money than my 21 gears, do you take me for a fool? Shame on you bike industry. I can go on, how lame and pointless 31.8 bars are and how ugly they look, or how a 200 dollar seat post that drops can’t beat a 10 buck quick release seat post clamp and to take the 10 seconds to take in the view before you drop in is worth way more than another lever do-hickey on your bike, are you really that lazy? And the 29 wheels, really? Every time I see some poor 5.5” guy on a 29er, I just feel like the bike industry is made up of carneys and we are it’s willing dupes. And these massive head tube bearings they look like the wheel bearings in my van, there’s no way you can convince me I “need” that junk. At some point I just feel like you think I’m an idiot they will buy anything that you put before me, I think you think so little of us as a group that one can keep changing things endlessly chasing one’s tail in the pointless quest of improving something that needs no improvement, even the bike magazines are getting weary of your cavalcade of falsehoods, they are usually your ever loyal heralds but that is even changing.
I turned away from mountain biking magazines for few years and when I came back, mountain bikes no longer existed. There are xc, all mountain, free ride, downhill, etc. but there are no “mountain bikes” anymore. I still own and use a mountain bike, I understand that by creating labels and slicing the pie in ever-smaller slices you can perhaps sucker someone into buying a bunch of bikes that only get used for one type of trail. I guess that’s clever marketing and sales go up, but I think in doing so you alienate the beginner that will certainly be confused and intimidated by all the jargon and techo-babble when they go to their local shop and want a “mountain bike” Shame on you bike industry, I think you need a time-out to think about what you’ve done.
 
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#155 ·
Obviously the OP has a hard time understanding that the bike industry is a Business. Yes, to make money. Otherwise, no innovation, no new bikes, no specialties, nothing. Marketing? Yes, some of it BS, some of it actually works. You can also thank the pros that have pushed the sport to the limit.

I personally thank God for 29ers. I started road bike racing and in 5 years I fell behind in MTB technology. The only thing that saves me are fully rigid 29ers and that is now also tricky with oversized forks and BB30. That I do not like. CArbon wheels on a MTB? Humm Dont know. I still nurse the carbon wheels on my roadbike.

So Thank you bike industry for:
Tubless tires
29ers
Carbon Forks
Rear shock platform and brains
Super light hydro disk breaks
Carbon Fiber frames
Carbon Fiber Parts
 
#156 ·
So Thank you bike industry for:
Tubless tires
29ers
Carbon Forks
Rear shock platform and brains
Super light hydro disk breaks
Carbon Fiber frames
Carbon Fiber Parts
Sounds like a scary ride...a 29" carbon frame 5" travel bike with a rigid carbon fork, ultra light brakes, tubeless tires and carbon bits holding it all together. :thumbsup:
 
#157 ·
So OP, with this type of reasoning, you are basically saying that once the bicycle was invented, all evolution or change should have stopped. Or is it that all evolution of the bicycle should have stopped once you bought your, "mountain bike"? For me, I can't wait to see what the next 20 years has in store for the mountain bike, which ever type of mountain bike I decide to buy, or not to buy.
 
#160 ·
Like anything else, cycling is a big business. In order for companies to remain solvent, they need to sell their product. Providing 'new', yet maybe unnecessary products give them the opportunity to bring in their needed capital.

No one forces us to buy. We're all suckers to some degree!
 
#161 ·
No one forces us to buy.
See this is where I disagree.

It would be nice if the new stuff, was just added to the list of options.
The problem is that standards are hardly standards anymore, so spares and wear items are pretty specific.
This is all good and fine, till the standards change, so spares and wear items are becoming obsolete, forcing us to bin a bike that otherwise is still good.

A good example would be, that finding a high quality 8sp cassette, is close to impossible by now. So a perfectly good XTR 8sp drivetrain is pretty much for the bin.

Magura :)
 
#168 · (Edited)
In response to OP. as a consumer, you have a right to feel that way, and the right to express it. However, as someone else here mentioned, the bike industry is out there not just for your enjoyment/convenience, but to make MOOLAH. They need to get paid. And if bikes were made so that they lasted forever without obsoletion, then people would hold onto their rigid steel bikes with center pull cantis.

Progress is good, most of the time. I like my disk brakes and my thread less headset and dual compound tires. I like having 24 speeds. And this one I don't get: what's your beef with 31.8 bars? You may think they look ugly, but mine look sick! And I drool over technologies like black box motion control and brain. We live in an industrialized world, and you can try and hold onto the past, but someday the industry will leave you hanging. you may kick butt with your bike. But have you tried kicking butt on a more recent bike? It's easier.

You mentioned the square taper bb. It is widely accepted that sq tp is inferior to other standards. It flexes and is heavy. In response to that, Shimano created its proprietary Octalink. It sucked because the bearings were too small (or something). So they created Octalink V2. Other crank/bb manufacturers were mad that Shimano made a proprietary bb, and they wanted splines too. I.S.I.S. was born. RF, FSA and I believe SRAM all support ISIS. But people wanted to do better. They needed external bearings. And thus was born the 2 piece crank. Press fit was created by trek for even more rigidity and lightness.

Square taper, octa, octa v2, ISIS, external bearing, and Press fit.
Seems like a lot of places to screw up, but feel blessed. At least they all use 68mm bb shells with English thread (ISO) (except for pf, which is screwy IMHO). You can get any one of these at any time. The 68 x 30 English thread has survived a long time. You may still want a UN 55 or w/e but let us have our x types and hollow techs please. The bike industry doesn't force kool aid down everyone's throats. it asks the majority if they like it. If they do, then we have called obsoletion of old stuff ourselves.
 
#169 ·
...
Press fit was created by trek for even more rigidity and lightness.
The bike industry doesn't force kool aid down everyone's throats. it asks the majority if they like it..
No. They make changes to cut their production time & costs. Many changes have occurred recently, which I feel is a result of their attempt to mass-market carbon. IME, Press-fit is a PIA, and a deterrent to buying a new bike/frame.
Anyone who cross-threaded has bigger issues, should rely on their LBS, become a lemming, and increase industry profits.
No thanks, sheeple. :D

Mmm... tapas
 
#171 ·
Sorry if my info wasn't totally accurate, should have had a disclaimer. The point was to show there was a REASON why all those bottom bracket "standards" exist. They aren't just trying to get more money from you, they are actually making better bikes, believe it or not.
 
#172 ·
Yep, I remember watching videos of people bending and snapping square taper cranksets. They were not up to the task when we started going freeride, downhill and all mountain. What many of us consider normal drops and not freeride or downhill stuff will bend and snap them. That and it's stupid easy and quick to take off the shimano cranks without excessive force or wearing down a taper-interface (which can cause creaking, wobble, play, etc).

I was just trying to point out that octalink V1 was pretty good. Most people had no problems with it, but it was an intermediary step. Huge difference between V2 and square, but still V1 was a step up for sure. ISIS on the other hand, that was a "me-too!" trainwreck.
 
#181 ·
I kind of like the progress. As someone who moved away from the sport of "Mountainbiking" over 10 years ago to pursue other things in my life, I am excited and in awe of the new technology, and how much things have changed (for the better). Things that were top of the line when I used to ride are considered entry level now, and as such much cheaper to buy. My current ride (A Giant STP-0) is a dream bike for me when I think back to my old "mountainbike" all purpose bike. The first jump I pulled on the new bike was a revelation. How the hell did I achieve what I did ten years ago on what was considered a very good bike at the time (I had a Diamond Back V-Link with Marzocchi Bomber Z2's). Without progress, no-one moves forward...
 
#186 ·
I didn't read thru all the responses that were posted, so forgive me if it's all ready been suggested...


The #1 thing that I think that Shimano should do is remake the XT/XTR line of 8-speed from about 96-01. Talk about a money-maker! They would be selling gold from a gold mine, and all the tooling is already made!

;)
 
#191 ·
Magura... where does that come from?
Anyway, it has been mentioned that the progress in MTB tech has been incremental. Its true, but only to a certain extent. Try free riding on a rigid 5 speeder with cantis. I dare you...
Tech has allowed athletes to push the sport to its extremes, and new tech is made to accommodate those extremes.
 
#192 ·
I got that name back when hydraulic brakes were fairly unknown, and I guess I was much into them back then, so I got the nick. ;)
Now I just go by that name.

If you take a look around the MTBR, you'll see that I'm all for development, in fact I have made a few bits here and there myself.
What I am against, is change for the sake of change, with no benefit besides lining the pockets of the industry.
Much of the "development" we see, has no real benefit. A great example is the new Sram XX1. That has to be a joke if you ask me. Even 10 speed offers very limited benefit.
The limited benefit XX1 offers, could be achieved without making another "standard", and at a minimal cost.

Magura :)
 
#193 ·
Really? I like the concept of XX1. Not having to worry about shifting in front is already a known + of the 1 x n setup. Being able to achieve most of the ratios of a triple is awesome. Would it be possible to but a 42-10 cassette on a standard hub? Maybe the 11 speeds are unnecessary though.
 
#194 ·
I'm doing a 40-11, 10 sp. at the moment, which does not seem to leave much to wish for compared to a 42-10, and mine is compatible with all the usual hubs.
I would much rather have seen the industry do that, but the industry chose to make it a 1000$ upgrade, instead of a 50$ solution ;)

Besides that, I guess we want the same thing, I just like that my stuff is not at total loss every time something goes south away from home.
So I develop stuff that can be replaced by just about anything on the market, if need be, but offers the same as the top shelf stuff or better.

Magura :)
 
#225 · (Edited)
I like carbon frames over aluminum. Raced both.

I like 29er wheels on my hardtail vs 26" on my hardtail. Raced both.

I like carbon hoops better than aluminum. Raced both.

I like my modern fork with lock out better than my generation 1 Manitou with elastomer bumpers. Raced both.

I like disc brakes better than cantis and v brakes. Raced both.

If I raced DH, I would buy a dropper post in a heartbeat.

Yadda yadda yadda.

Shame on the industry? Funny. What you fail to realize is that the bike you currently ride has evolved from the bikes available in the 1800s.

Go buy a penny farthing and get on with it then..

Industry...please continue to evolve. I will manage to ignore the 10% of silly "must haves" that are introduced each season...

**Note: Look at what happened to Chris King when they refused to evolve. Still a great company, but making way way less money than 10 years ago.

Thanks.
 
#236 ·
There are more and more innovations (as well as marketing - granted).
But these usually have an ever-decreasing impact on the scale of improvement. It's like we're reaching the plateaux - race times falling by lower increments; bike bits weigh less, but only by a few grams.
Every so often there is a step-change that lifts the game significantly. For me, tubeless is a good example - from 20 flats a year to none - incredible. Or 29" wheels for technical climbing.
What will the next step change be? Difficult to imagine, but it will come.
 
#238 ·
I keep trying to ignore this post, but i just cant.

The splintering of mountain bikes into countless sub sections is the industry recognizing that i ride differently then you, i have different terrain in the place i live then you with different obstacles and features.

The fact that RnD is being pushed as hard as it is, is the a great sign. It means mountain biking is becoming more mainstream, and is attracting a larger following and more interest. Why is this a good thing?, because we have come a long way form the days of rake and ride. Trails systems are being supported by towns and local communities, they are being supported by the land owners and are becoming draws for tourism and business to small towns everywhere.

Now do we "need" half the things that are put out ever year?, hell no (buts its still fun to buy, thank you anodized matching parts and spacers). But from time to time something comes along that quickly becomes a must have, like the dropper seat post and like the disc brakes before it. Are there two things needed?, no maybe not. Did they make riding easier for many people?, hell yes. And ya know, thats a good enough reason for me to buy into it.

Most technology that is quickly embraced are the things that make riding more exciting and safer, and these are two areas that always need to be worked on.

Shame the bike industries?. shame the auto industries, i mean the speed limit is the speed limit... who needs after market performance parts?. Hell shame the electronics industries, shame the entertainment industries (really do we need remakes of classics?). Shame everyone who ever put out a new product when the old one still worked fine, i mean did we need an iphone 5, the 4s is still pretty freaking amazing.

You know what happens when companies stop R&D and dont release new products, the go under and lots of people lose their jobs.

TL;DR
The op sounds like a kid who's friends have all the new toys and hes stuck using a department store bike, and is generally angry his parents wont buy him a new bike. I know because i used to be one of these people, suspension is stupid, hydros breaks are just going to leave you stranded on the side of the trail and dropper seat posts are just a gimmick. Stopping ever 20min on a trail to adjust my seat height is just as good.

I most likely should not be wasting my time to feed the trolls but really... i mean really?
 
#239 · (Edited)
The fact that RnD is being pushed as hard as it is, is the a great sign. It means mountain biking is becoming more mainstream, and is attracting a larger following and more interest. Why is this a good thing?, because we have come a long way form the days of rake and ride. Trails systems are being supported by towns and local communities, they are being supported by the land owners and are becoming draws for tourism and business to small towns everywhere.

You know what happens when companies stop R&D and dont release new products, the go under and lots of people lose their jobs.
It's not the R&D departments that are being pushed, but the marketing departments....huge difference.
If the R&D departments were working that hard, and got that much funding, we would see real development from more than a handful of companies. The rest are just changing things to make them seem different, and leave the "development" to the marketing guys.

In fact what happens when the R&D departments don't develop new products, is that the development is grinding to something close to a standstill.
......and that is exactly what we have pretty much had for the last 10 years.

Counting out the Shimano Dynasys, carbon MTB rims, some improvement of suspension, and some attempts at making a hydraulic dropper post work, nothing really new has hit the market for the last 10 years, just minor adjustments, and many of those not for the better.

Loads of BS has hit the market in that period, heavily supported by the respective marketing departments. Mind you, that is what most of the cash goes towards, or we would have some pretty hefty bikes today.

Magura :)
 
#240 ·
Oh, come on, Magura, don't you think that 10 speeds make me so much faster than 9 or even 8? I own those climbs now, (unless I need to shift the front because I have a 38 t big gear.)

My 70 mm stem makes me so edgy going down that my crappy climbing position doesn't even matter. Hell, if I drop it in the corners, it's not the bike's fault (maybe the short stem's though), it's mine because I forgot to get my weight forward.

Those wide bars give me so much more leverage than before (even though I'm riding a bike not a 240 lb motocrosser).

And I like buying new rings every second season the BCD changes. It's my money after all, and I'm faster damn it.

My ultra small frame with 18 inches of post isn't fashion either. Don't you know a smaller frame is stiffer and handles better?

Tongue in cheek aside, we are at the 'motocross stage', where actual improvements are small each season. In moto, after 12 inches front and back in 1979, everything else has been minor by comparison.

Imho, on bicycles disc brakes and really good suspension are the big breakthroughs. Stuff like carbon fibre, tapered steerers, stiff cranks, and OS bars definitely help incrementally. Pretty much everything else is hyped up stuff that the sheeple "just have to have".

Drew
 
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