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  1. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    Godwin's law wins again! Marketing, advertising and salesmen do not sell products, they sell emotions. They don't sell you the thing, they sell you what you want the thing to do for you. In most cases, that boils down to getting laid.
    In general, yes. MTB parts, not so much. I am looking at all the many ads on this very web page, and none of them look like a Gillette razor ad. Ads for geeks is all I see. Maybe the marketing managers for bike component companies are poorly paid, or maybe they think we are too brainy to fall for ads with buxom lasses in them.

  2. #352
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    Agreed. I like choices. The more I use trigger shifters, the less I like them. They put my hands in an uncomfortable position. I like the concept of twisters better. Alas! Shimano makes no respectable ones.
    So if I want twisters I'm gonna have to switch out my entire drive train (fd and crank excluded)!
    It's pronounced "so pro and cool."
    It was an impulse decision.

  3. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    Agreed. I like choices. The more I use trigger shifters, the less I like them. They put my hands in an uncomfortable position. I like the concept of twisters better. Alas! Shimano makes no respectable ones.
    So if I want twisters I'm gonna have to switch out my entire drive train (fd and crank excluded)!
    I used to be one of those twister guys, for years. Then I tried a set of SRAM triggers with Shimano derailers. I'll never go back to twisting.
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  4. #354
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    What combo did you use?
    Don't Shimano and SRAM have different pull ratios?
    It's pronounced "so pro and cool."
    It was an impulse decision.

  5. #355
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    holy groanin' god, this thread is still going?

    i hated grip shift. sachs made grip shifters that felt really nice but worked like (expletive) with shimano derailleurs.

    i'm pretty happy with the SRAM/SRAM i'm using now. it's not by choice, they're just what my new bikes were spec'd with. as a matter of fact, i like the SRAM triggers better than the nineties-era shimano rapid fire on my alibi which i thought were a vast improvement over the thumbshifters and twisters i'd used previously..

  6. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    What combo did you use?
    Don't Shimano and SRAM have different pull ratios?
    SRAM Rocket and Attack trigger shifters are made for Shimano derailers. I have three sets of them and they all work very well.
    '96 San Andreas
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  7. #357
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    Holy shiz. Unsubscribed.
    Last edited by wmac; 12-06-2012 at 11:04 PM.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  8. #358
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    I don't think I'll be getting attacks anytime soon. The 1 to 1 thing gives easier shifting, compared to shimano.
    The main reason I don't like shimano shifters is because of the index finger thing. I can dump a cassette shifting up, but using my index finger on the trails freaks me out. I realize that some higher end ones are convertible, but not the ones in my price range.
    Sram thumb only shifters are nice, but I can't dump a cassette. I don't think that's worth it though. I may give them a try for right hand, but probably not.
    Twisters allow for much easier and much safer shifting, IMHO, because its just a flick of the wrist vs having to let one of your fingers off the bars.
    Def my next shifters will be twisters, provided that the industry doesn't declare them obsolete like friction shifters.
    Hopefully there will be plentiful options forever. Not everybody is alike.
    It's pronounced "so pro and cool."
    It was an impulse decision.

  9. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavyRay View Post
    You forgot to mention Fox.
    just scared that a fan of Fox would come after me with a gun..........

  10. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    You're over thinking it. I like to ride. I like to ride well-built, technologically advanced bikes. If I was poor I'd go on Bikes Direct and stretch my dollar as far as I could on an inexpensive but serviceable bike; as I have money I like to spend it on things I like...the Lord knows that between car payments, auto insurance, health insurance, malpractice insurance, disability insurance, property tax, income tax to support the entitled, the fat, the lazy, and the stupid I certainly spend a lot on things I don't like.

    Mountain biking, by the way, is the opposite of conformity, at least where I live. Nobody understands it, they think spending more than a hundred bucks for a bike is insane, and chicks definitely don't dig it....my girlfriend for her part tolerates it but if I was the assistant manager at Taco Bell she probably wouldn't.

    Additionally, while it's true that progress in technology is incremental, a high-end bike in 2013 is vastly better than one from 1993. By better I mean faster, more rugged, lighter, and just more fun to ride.

    Anti-conformity is itself a kind of conformity, by the way. Avant garde is just as reflexive and provincial as normality. I care what people think about me, I adhere to social norms, I am not a rebel or vastly different in outlook from the majority of people which gives me the freedom to do things that I like without worrying about image.

    The real question is if technological progress offers us real benefits or not.
    Certainly bike maintenance and reliability are a big problem. And when you spend a lot of money you do not want problems, right?
    In ten years many things have changed, it is true, but the feeling of being mocked, for me has increased.
    Conformity and nonconformity are concepts near and far at the same time.
    Here in Europe I guess that as you spend more money than you are intelligent and integrated into the system, not only about bikes.
    I am an expert about useless things: I have a store where I sell gold and watches ...
    A few minutes ago I sold a gold ring to a woman who would have something else to think about, the ring does not change her life but so goes the world ...
    To spend money for someone can be a justification for a lifestyle and an hard job.
    I remember a boy with an old bmx, rode with me and my friends, we were younger, we used to have long and challenging rides. he did not need full frame or carbon ...
    Last edited by toscano; 12-07-2012 at 04:55 AM.

  11. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    I don't think I'll be getting attacks anytime soon. The 1 to 1 thing gives easier shifting, compared to shimano.
    The main reason I don't like shimano shifters is because of the index finger thing. I can dump a cassette shifting up, but using my index finger on the trails freaks me out. I realize that some higher end ones are convertible, but not the ones in my price range.
    Sram thumb only shifters are nice, but I can't dump a cassette. I don't think that's worth it though. I may give them a try for right hand, but probably not.
    Twisters allow for much easier and much safer shifting, IMHO, because its just a flick of the wrist vs having to let one of your fingers off the bars.
    Def my next shifters will be twisters, provided that the industry doesn't declare them obsolete like friction shifters.
    Hopefully there will be plentiful options forever. Not everybody is alike.
    I have always felt the twister to be in the way. And I have had some accidental shifts. I also don't like having like half a good grip and the rest whatever sram wants me to have.
    I aint never going back to twisters. I shift up with the thumb and down with the thumb, I love it.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  12. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    Hopefully there will be plentiful options forever. Not everybody is alike.
    I rest my case....


    EDIT: I quoted myself to emphasize my point, that some obviously overlooked.
    Last edited by sauprankul; 12-07-2012 at 03:09 PM.
    It's pronounced "so pro and cool."
    It was an impulse decision.

  13. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    I rest my case....
    Quoting yourself? That's like masterbating.
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  14. #364
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    Quoting me without my consent? That's like raping.
    It's pronounced "so pro and cool."
    It was an impulse decision.

  15. #365
    dru
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    The problem with all this (un)liked technological 'progress' is more of an issue for store bought bikes. If you are building your own you can pick and choose.

    For instance, my Salsa had state of the art XTR 975 brakes in '09 because I chose them. The same bike also had a set of square taper Middleburn cranks, and 5 bolt 94 bcd rings.

    I use what I like and disregard the rest, otherwise the 'marketing machine' would bother me a lot more than it does.

    I can pick and choose; the other bike just got 9 speed two months back.

    10 speed, I could care less.

    Drew
    occasional cyclist

  16. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    Quoting me without my consent? That's like raping.
    You enjoyed it so it doesn't count.
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  17. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    I don't think I'll be getting attacks anytime soon. The 1 to 1 thing gives easier shifting, compared to shimano.
    The main reason I don't like shimano shifters is because of the index finger thing. I can dump a cassette shifting up, but using my index finger on the trails freaks me out. I realize that some higher end ones are convertible, but not the ones in my price range.
    Sram thumb only shifters are nice, but I can't dump a cassette. I don't think that's worth it though. I may give them a try for right hand, but probably not.
    Twisters allow for much easier and much safer shifting, IMHO, because its just a flick of the wrist vs having to let one of your fingers off the bars.
    Def my next shifters will be twisters, provided that the industry doesn't declare them obsolete like friction shifters.
    Hopefully there will be plentiful options forever. Not everybody is alike.
    I absolutely hate SRAM shifters with a passion. They are designed for dyslexic people, using the thumb to upshift and downshift is not right, you can't execute fast shitfts either. I have both (shimano and sram shifters), and the sram totally blows. I've tried to live with it for 2 yrs, but I just can't, to me it's not natural. You can't position a sram shifter in the optimal position so your thumb can fall on both paddles. Having your thumb fall on the upshift paddle is great, then you have to reroute your thumb to get to the downshift paddle, not cool. It's not an optimal system if you need to take your thumb/finger off one paddle to get to the other paddle. I'll go with ergonomics this time.
    Last edited by SV11; 12-07-2012 at 08:25 PM.

  18. #368
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    Do you really ride with your fingers ready to shift every moment? I don't.

    I have Saint on one bike and X9 on the other. I prefer the X9. Thumbs for shifting, index finger for braking.

    In the end, I'd say it's personal preference. I don't think one is inherently superior.
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

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  19. #369
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    Yeah I do, constantly. Well, my fingers/thumb fall to the paddles naturally (with shimano).
    What seperates them is the ergo's.

  20. #370
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    Back to the point. The industry is doing the right thing by giving people several choices.
    Whether you conceive them to be "must haves" or not is up to you.
    @sv11 I think you mean thumb-thumb shifters, not SRAM shifters.
    It's pronounced "so pro and cool."
    It was an impulse decision.

  21. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Yeah I do, constantly. Well, my fingers/thumb fall to the paddles naturally (with shimano).
    Lets see. 1 finger on up lever, 1 finger on down lever, 1-2 fingers on brake lever.
    That's leaves your pinky to hold on to the bars.

    It's pronounced "so pro and cool."
    It was an impulse decision.

  22. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    Lets see. 1 finger on up lever, 1 finger on down lever, 1-2 fingers on brake lever.
    That's leaves your pinky to hold on to the bars.

    erm no. I use my index finger to brake, reason being is that i dont normally upshift while braking, but I do downshift when braking. I never put my finger on the brake lever unless im about to use it.
    I don't know whats holding back sram/shimano from making a 1 paddle shifter, it's not like they don't have the technology, resources or knowledge.
    Last edited by SV11; 12-07-2012 at 09:18 PM.

  23. #373
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    Twas a joke, mate.
    How would one use a one paddle shifter?

    EDIT: Oh kinda like an indexed thumbie?

    And did somebody hit wmac for his Hitler comment?
    It's pronounced "so pro and cool."
    It was an impulse decision.

  24. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauprankul View Post
    Twas a joke, mate.
    How would one use a one paddle shifter?

    EDIT: Oh kinda like an indexed thumbie?
    Yeah just having 1 paddle, push/pull indexed (or friction) method, below the bar.

  25. #375
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    I guess.
    But there probably a reason neither has made one yet.
    And there also a reason why SRAM still makes twisters.
    And both SRAM and shimano make thumb thumb shutters.
    It's pronounced "so pro and cool."
    It was an impulse decision.

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