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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatorgrizz27 View Post
    It does surprise me that he wasn't able to maintain his body temp by riding, I'll start off on cool days feeling chilled and warm up almost immediately, but it's another lesson to be learned.
    Not too surprising. Sure it is easy to stay warm on a climb or pedaling on the flat, but it is easy to get chilled on even a short descent. Especially in a thin layer that is damp from rain or perspiration from sweating on the climb up.

    And how many of us could continue to exert enough effort to stay warm on a 50+ mile ride without refueling? If you are bonking, it is hard to even stay upright, let alone ride strong.

    It's sad that something as simple as a couple of energy gels and a rain layer in a jersey pocket could have made this story turn out differently.
    I drank the 29er koolaid- turns out it was POWERade

  2. #127
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    I don't mean to dig up an old thread but I'm watching the news and a snowboarder at boreal was doing some back country boarding/skiing and it's currently dumping snow, and there are a ton of search and rescue volunteers out there now. Also in Forest Hill, a runner on the Western States Trail has gone missing and it is snowing out there as well. He was told to only have light running gear. There is a HUGE effort to locate this runner. It too, is snowing heavily in that area but search and rescue is out there doing there best to get him home. So I'm curious what the differences are. Why do volunteers go out in the heavy snow to look for a runner and a snowboarder (in northern california) but nobody went out to look for a mountain biker (in southern california). Thoughts anyone?

  3. #128
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    Location experience and the SAR teams ability at a guess ie the LAC feels conditions arent so bad as to put his teams at risk so they will continue until the situation changed

  4. #129
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    When it rains hard in Southern California everything goes to hell. The roads turn to mud. In northern California it rains and snows all the time so things don't get as dangerous.

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by iWiLRiDe View Post
    I don't mean to dig up an old thread but I'm watching the news and a snowboarder at boreal was doing some back country boarding/skiing and it's currently dumping snow, and there are a ton of search and rescue volunteers out there now. Also in Forest Hill, a runner on the Western States Trail has gone missing and it is snowing out there as well. He was told to only have light running gear. There is a HUGE effort to locate this runner. It too, is snowing heavily in that area but search and rescue is out there doing there best to get him home. So I'm curious what the differences are. Why do volunteers go out in the heavy snow to look for a runner and a snowboarder (in northern california) but nobody went out to look for a mountain biker (in southern california). Thoughts anyone?
    Local sheriff officials who are in charge (legally responsible) for the search make decisions on search management. Risk is always a factor. The snowboarder is equipped for the conditions based on info from family. Selected southern California SAR teams are responding as part of a mutual aid request. It is very easy to armchair quarterback these efforts. Contact your local SAR team and see about volunteering. FYI- the runner was found alive.

  6. #131
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    So I can share a little bit of knowlege I have learned over the past few years. I am currently stationed on a remote island that is part of the aleutian chain, and I have also been to a number of military survival schools. I also work search and rescue.

    Fire- fire is generally considered to be morale. You will use a lot of energy collecting wood, kindling, etc.., to have fire. It is absolutely not a necessity in a survival situation.

    Shelter- your primary shelter is your clothing. Plan ahead! Where I live it can be 45*F and sunny one moment, and freezing/sleeting with 60 kts of wind the next. I personally bring enough gear to survive the night, even on short hiking trips up mountains I can see from my living room window. I do not wear all the clothing at once. If you live in a colder climate, the packable puff jackets are amazing! I also carry an emergency bivvy sack. It is about the size of an avocado compressed, and will save your life.

    Food- food is a good thing to have and most of us are knowlegable of what to bring for caloric intake, however it also is not a necessity. Personally, I like to have extra gels and lots of water just in case. If you are stuck out and run out of water, dont be afraid to drink from a flowing river. It is better to have giardia than to die from dehydration. That being said, dont eat snow, it will make you hypothermic.

    Cell phones- do not depend on them. Where I ride, cell service is often non-existent. Batteries die. Phones break when you fall. It is best to leave a plan with a family member or friend.

  7. #132
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    They found the runner after two days. He's fine, amazingly.

  8. #133
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    It was amazing, Anne. The runner was able to find help near the bridge and the snowboarder found a home and called for help. It was said that the chances of either surviving was very low, yet they beat the odds.

  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbr6fs View Post

    One tragic story of Bill ewasko that went missing in the Joshua Tree National Park in June 2010, after days and weeks of repeated searches he still hasn't been found.
    Searching for Bill Ewasko
    Another of a father/daughter who when missing in NM on a two mile hike back in 2002 and weren't found until 2010.
    ABQJOURNAL UPFRONT: Death in El Malpais: Mystery Lingers
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  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by iWiLRiDe View Post
    I don't mean to dig up an old thread but I'm watching the news and a snowboarder at boreal was doing some back country boarding/skiing and it's currently dumping snow, and there are a ton of search and rescue volunteers out there now. Also in Forest Hill, a runner on the Western States Trail has gone missing and it is snowing out there as well. He was told to only have light running gear. There is a HUGE effort to locate this runner. It too, is snowing heavily in that area but search and rescue is out there doing there best to get him home. So I'm curious what the differences are. Why do volunteers go out in the heavy snow to look for a runner and a snowboarder (in northern california) but nobody went out to look for a mountain biker (in southern california). Thoughts anyone?
    Well for one, the area around Boreal is relatively tame by backcountry standards and bounded by a road on all sides (highway 80 and Soda Springs), not to mention Donner Ski Ranch and Boreal make up a large portion of that area. It also depends on what kind of assets you have in place and what gear they have, how far they have to go to reach said lost/injured person and what may be required to pull them out. Going in 20 miles on foot can be a lot different than covering a mile of snow-covered terrain on skis. My point is that you really can not compare one situation to then next. Totally different variables and dynamics.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBNate View Post
    Another of a father/daughter who when missing in NM on a two mile hike back in 2002 and weren't found until 2010. ABQJOURNAL UPFRONT: Death in El Malpais: Mystery Lingers
    A similar situation with a guy who went for a very short walk (a quarter mile) on a broad paved trail at Mesa Verde National Park in June 2013 and simply disappeared. It was very hot and he had no water, but the trail head is at the visitor center/museum area of a hugely popular national park and the paved trail leads to a cliff dwelling down in the canyon.
    Searchers saturated the area as well as a broader area and found nothing. Oddly, two people possibly heard him call out for help, one of them a reporter from High Country News. Her account and some ruminations on her experience, death in the wilderness and Ed Abbey are here.

    Having worked & lived at MVNP in the past, I guess it is possible that he ventured off the path and was killed by a mountain lion; they are common in the park and partially bury the remainder of their kill after they have eaten. He may have been disoriented from heat and lack of water and wandered off the trail. However, nothing can account for no one finding him or any remains. He was in a canyon. Every inch was scoured by searchers. He was visiting the park with his family and there is no evidence that he took a powder. What the heck?

    As for the runner who was found alive? He was in amazingly good shape for having spent two nights out in bitter cold. I can't say much for the running group who left him behind (unless he was ahead of the group when he made his wrong turn).
    Last edited by June Bug; 04-02-2014 at 06:00 PM.

  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by mevadus View Post
    Cell phones- do not depend on them. Where I ride, cell service is often non-existent. Batteries die. Phones break when you fall. It is best to leave a plan with a family member or friend.
    I do not have nearly the amount of training or experience you do, but I like to think I've got common sense.

    I worked at a summer camp for kids ages 9-15 before graduating college. Along with doing trail and property maintenance I also taught kids "outdoor skills." One of the primary things I taught them was how to tell people where you are going. We did several excises that involve teams of "searchers" and "lost hiker". I played the lost hiker in both cases. The first round, I showed the kids a map and which trails on the map I'd use to get to my destination. I showed them what I was wearing, how much water I had, and how long it would take me to get to my destination.

    As a lost hiker, I told them that I'd be simulating someone who was injured WITHIN 50FT THE PATH I told them I'd use and could not move or speak.

    The first time, with all the information I told them, they'd find me (as long as they used the map correctly) within 10-15 minutes.

    In most cases the searcher teams would walk right by me sitting in jeans in a t-shirt within 50ft of the trail. I usually just sat with my back against a tree. There was one girl in particular who was better at spotting me than the others. We played this game twice a week for 8 weeks and most weeks she'd spot me at least once.

    The second time, I wouldn't give them any information other than "I'll meet you at the pool."

    They never found me.
    I do custom ArcGIS and Google Maps, including data collection and sustainable trail layout. Ride Welsh Mountain

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by June Bug View Post

    As for the runner who was found alive? He was in amazingly good shape for having spent two nights out in bitter cold. I can't say much for the running group who left him behind (unless he was ahead of the group when he made his wrong turn).
    The newspaper article says that he was in a big group of runners, which split into a faster group and a slower group. He was with the slower group. When they stopped for a rest, he said that he'd keep on going and catch up to the faster group. He made a wrong turn before reaching the faster group.

    I think his runner friends are off the hook on this one. When they all got together at the end and realized he was not among them, they raised the alarm.

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