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  1. #1
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    The mother of all apology speeches (lance mega thread)

    It's coming. Probably this weekend at the Livestrong anniversary party.

    I think it will go like this:

    1) He had no choice but to dope as a cyclist.
    2) He could not admit because the people with cancer were counting on him.
    3) He will now devote his remaining life to fighting cancer.

    The interesting information will come in interviews afterward. I cannot see Armstrong not passing the blame around.



    An interesting blog post
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  2. #2
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    I doubt it . . . a confession would lead to substantial legal issues at this point, no? Perjury, etc.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  3. #3
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    Lance is ruined.

    Now he is just some doper who was THAT much better then all the other dopers.

    What a dope.

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    He won't say a thing and he will ignore questions about it, even though the media will be there in droves in hopes that he will say something.

    Livestrong itself has been very quiet in their PR stuff lately. I have seen one blog post about Lance stepping down and one or two tidbits about moving on and trying to redirect attention to cancer patients.

    I could see Lance pulling out his famous sharp tongue if the media is too pushy.

  5. #5
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    Better life through chemicals!
    He beat them all, including the system.
    More power to Lance.
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  6. #6
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    i think

    that this will happen inevitably and regardless of his actions...

    it'd be nice if he owned to it. it would allow most of us to move on...


    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    I doubt it . . . a confession would lead to substantial legal issues at this point, no? Perjury, etc.

  7. #7
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    Lance wont be admitting anything, its not in his make up, he might have had the guts to cheat his way to 7 tours and beat cancer but he wont have the guts to admit and come clean on this....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    it'd be nice if he owned to it. it would allow most of us to move on...
    You really have problems if you can't move on due to Lance's doping allegations. I think the only sad thing about this whole incident is that, it is very apparent, doping is nearly the only way to compete in professional cycling (roadies).

    That all said, Livestrong has, at the very least, brought a large focus the horrible illness that is cancer and the hopes to find a way to fight it. He has also been a huge influence which boosted the American passion in all forms of cycling. I would bet this also improved the health of many folks who wouldn't have cycled before this passion. More ppl are healthier and happier now from Lance's motivation to get on a bike and just pedal.

  9. #9
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    Pedal damn it!
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetboy23 View Post
    You really have problems if you can't move on due to Lance's doping allegations.
    i think you are onto something here...

    That all said, Livestrong has, at the very least, brought a large focus the horrible illness that is cancer and the hopes to find a way to fight it. He has also been a huge influence which boosted the American passion in all forms of cycling. I would bet this also improved the health of many folks who wouldn't have cycled before this passion. More ppl are healthier and happier now from Lance's motivation to get on a bike and just pedal.
    maybe, if it wasn't for McDonald's and Krispy Kreme....

    he could have achieved the same influence without cheating...

  11. #11
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    "Cheating" "Ruined" LOL Lance Haters dancing on his virtual grave. Dance on, Haters.
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  12. #12
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    Livestrong contributes almost nothing to actual cancer research. Interesting article in Outside a while back:

    Lance Armstrong and Livestrong | Lance Armstrong | OutsideOnline.com
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    The two most traumatizing moments of my life.... finding out Santy Claus is not real and Lance being a cheater.

    Go figure.

  14. #14
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    Why would he even BE there? He stepped down from the Foundation. If it was ME, I wouldn't be anywhere NEAR the thing.
    A bike is the only drug with no bad side effects....

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeridesabike View Post
    Livestrong contributes almost nothing to actual cancer research. Interesting article in Outside a while back:

    Lance Armstrong and Livestrong | Lance Armstrong | OutsideOnline.com
    How many times do I have to say this? They don't claim to. The organization promotes survivorship support. They give money to orgs who provide that support and they offer support services of their own. It is an important aspect of caring for cancer patients that was not receiving much attention in the past.

    I am a recipient of some of those services. Livestrong paid for me to attend a weekend survivorship retreat where I got to meet other survivors my age. I made some lifelong friends there and learned a great deal about the emotional recovery survivors go through.

    The organization also works with the YMCA to provide memberships to survivors so they can get healthy again.

    You don't have to fund research to be a viable cancer charity. I am a volunteer with a couple other orgs that provide survivorship support and not a dime to research. It doesn't make them any less important.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpedaler View Post
    Why would he even BE there? He stepped down from the Foundation. If it was ME, I wouldn't be anywhere NEAR the thing.
    He is still a member of the board even though he no longer leads the organization. Not to mention, the speaking engagement has likely been set for some time.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huskywolf View Post
    The two most traumatizing moments of my life.... finding out Santy Claus is not real and Lance being a cheater.

    Go figure.
    Santa isn't real? I know you had to make that one up.
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  18. #18
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    don't want to argue with you

    out of respect for what you've gone through, and you obviously benefited from Livestrong. if you were the only person they helped - Livestrong is worth of it's existence.

    i guess one of the points that few people are trying to make is represented by this statement:

    “The issue with Lance Armstrong isn’t whether he has done good for cancer victims,” accounting professor Mark Zimbelman wrote on his blog Fraudbytes, in a post comparing Mortenson to Armstrong, “but rather, whether he first cheated to beat his opponents, then used his fraudulent titles to help promote an organization that appears to do good but also enriches a fraudster.”

    as far as i am concerned - that is the summary of Livestrong issue and how LA used it to project his public image as well as a powerful protection shield behind which he ran a successful cheating operation...

    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    How many times do I have to say this? They don't claim to. The organization promotes survivorship support. They give money to orgs who provide that support and they offer support services of their own. It is an important aspect of caring for cancer patients that was not receiving much attention in the past.

    I am a recipient of some of those services. Livestrong paid for me to attend a weekend survivorship retreat where I got to meet other survivors my age. I made some lifelong friends there and learned a great deal about the emotional recovery survivors go through.

    The organization also works with the YMCA to provide memberships to survivors so they can get healthy again.

    You don't have to fund research to be a viable cancer charity. I am a volunteer with a couple other orgs that provide survivorship support and not a dime to research. It doesn't make them any less important.

  19. #19
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    Yeah so Lance used his celebrity to promote Livestrong and in turn hid behind Livestrong. I get it. And how they have helped me and other cancer survivors does not excuse anything Lance has done. But big picture, here. Are you saying that cheating and being a lying aggressive @$$ by one guy outweighs the good accomplished by the organization? The previous poster and that Outside article were not even comparing that. They are saying that Livestrong does not support research and implying therefore the charity hides money and spends it suspiciously and is an overall shady organization.

    The situation is FAR more complicated than that. Lance is a very complicated person and this is a complicated situation. On the one had he is supremely arrogant and has pushed to ruin people who have tried to uncover his doping and yet on the other he helped create and promote this organization that has helped so many cancer survivors.

    I am saying you don't have to throw it all out. Condemn and punish the lying and cheating and all of that stuff. Let the good work continue by supporting cancer survivors locally and globally.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy View Post
    "Cheating" "Ruined" LOL Lance Haters dancing on his virtual grave. Dance on, Haters.
    LOL, I think those two words are just about as spot on as you can give.
    No hating about them, they are as factual as you will get in these threads lol
    yes he cheated, and yes he is ruined, i think you are confusing 'hating' with the facts....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    On the one had he is supremely arrogant and has pushed to ruin people who have tried to uncover his doping and yet on the other he helped create and promote this organization that has helped so many cancer survivors.

    I am saying you don't have to throw it all out. Condemn and punish the lying and cheating and all of that stuff. Let the good work continue by supporting cancer survivors locally and globally.
    Jekyll & Hyde for sure!!

    Thanks for the breakdown on livestrong natehawk, I wasn't 100% sure what the organization was about.
    feelin good is good enough

  22. #22
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    it is just a silly bicycle race.
    why should anyone really care
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  23. #23
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    lance will always be the best cyclist there ever was!!!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Yeah so Lance used his celebrity to promote Livestrong and in turn hid behind Livestrong. I get it. And how they have helped me and other cancer survivors does not excuse anything Lance has done. But big picture, here.
    ...

    The situation is FAR more complicated than that. Lance is a very complicated person and this is a complicated situation. On the one had he is supremely arrogant and has pushed to ruin people who have tried to uncover his doping and yet on the other he helped create and promote this organization that has helped so many cancer survivors.

    I am saying you don't have to throw it all out. Condemn and punish the lying and cheating and all of that stuff. Let the good work continue by supporting cancer survivors locally and globally.

    This is very well said. I think there are a lot of angles to this, and most folks don't sift through them.

  25. #25
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    I just want to ask.
    Do you guys really believe that his opponents were clean?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camaleon View Post
    I just want to ask.
    Do you guys really believe that his opponents were clean?
    But Lance must have cheated more, thats why he won, hell, any of us could with the TDF if we doped, right?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    But Lance must have cheated more, thats why he won, hell, any of us could with the TDF if we doped, right?
    He did it better that's for sure!
    That still make him the best in my book.
    I agree 100% with you, all that you need to do to win the TDF several times is to dope.
    Why do you think there's a war on dope?
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camaleon View Post
    I just want to ask.
    Do you guys really believe that his opponents were clean?
    That's actually the reason that the UCI has said they're just going to leave the race winner position blank instead of moving everyone up a spot should they decide to strip Lance of his titles based on the USADA evidence, because every single other person on the podium in all of those years has also been involved in doping allegations.

    Pretty sad state of affairs for road cycling (not like MTB has been squeaky clean over that same time period). Assuming that he did dope, if everyone else was doping too, did he still win? Or in that case, with no eligible riders, did the race just not actually take place?
    Can't wait for the snow to melt and the dirt to dry

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camaleon View Post
    Why do you think there's a war on dope?




    To rid the world of dopes?

  30. #30
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    wait, Lance was doping???

    my life = ruined.
    my reality = shattered.

    What next????? NFL players on steroids?? WWF wrestling not real??

    Raise your hand if you've never cheated, or taken a short cut to tilt the odds in your favor?

    I'm not advocating that he get to keep the titles (frankly I don't care), but this is getting as bad as Roger Clemens... A CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATION????? Our nation is in shambles (relatively) and we're more concerned with who's Snookie's babies daddy, or which athlete cheated.

    Am I the only one who sees a serious disconnect here?
    Not what you think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roadie scum View Post
    To rid the world of dopes?
    whoa!

    dope is an excellent prepping compound for assembling pipes
    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    whoa!

    dope is an excellent prepping compound for assembling pipes
    and then using in pipes.................. or so I learn from TV shows..
    Not what you think.

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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Yeah so Lance used his celebrity to promote Livestrong and in turn hid behind Livestrong. I get it. And how they have helped me and other cancer survivors does not excuse anything Lance has done. But big picture, here. Are you saying that cheating and being a lying aggressive @$$ by one guy outweighs the good accomplished by the organization? The previous poster and that Outside article were not even comparing that. They are saying that Livestrong does not support research and implying therefore the charity hides money and spends it suspiciously and is an overall shady organization.
    Nate,

    i was not talking about Livestrong. I was talking about LA.

    here is another quote from the same article. it strikingly applies to our discussion around here - does it not?

    "Others noticed an annoying tendency: whenever questions about doping arose, Armstrong and his supporters changed the subject to his cancer work, a tactic that the bicycling website NY Velocity called “raising the cancer shield.” After the 60 Minutes segment on Armstrong aired in May—complete with damning claims from ex-teammate Tyler Hamilton that Armstrong had cheated—Armstrong’s lawyers denied the allegations and quickly invoked Livestrong in his defense. In their one legal brief to date, they blasted the feds over alleged leaks to 60 Minutes that, they said, were intended to legitimize “the government’s investigation of a national hero, best known for his role in the fight against cancer.”

    The situation is FAR more complicated than that. Lance is a very complicated person and this is a complicated situation.
    i don't see it complicated at all. justice will happen to Lance - the way it is destined to happen. whether he is complicated or not - has nothing to do with the fact that he deceived the world - and he really did not have to. whether he is complicated or not will not affect the outcome of his misjudged decision.

    i hope Livestrong lives without him. for the sake of all of us.

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    just the same though ^^^ why should we really give a fcuk!

    WHY?

    All I hear is rhetoric and BS

    When it comes down to it, it's 'entertainment'

    Sure Footbally players love playing football, but would they if no one was there to watch them?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  35. #35
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    oskolo, Livestrong was brought into it a long time ago, and they are tied to this by Lance. The quote you used really doesn't support your case about it not being about Livestrong, either.

    ...an organization that appears to do good but also enriches a fraudster.”
    as far as i am concerned - that is the summary of Livestrong issue and how LA used it to project his public image as well as a powerful protection shield behind which he ran a successful cheating operation...
    That bolded text implicates Livestrong in NOT helping cancer survivors. Which is absolutely not the case and is what I was specifically pointing out. It is an idea that as far as I can tell was created by Outside Magazine because everyone who likes to cite the tidbit that "Livestrong does not fund research" always throws out that link. The organization definitely DOES good things. It does help people. The way Lance used it is largely irrelevant now because Lance has been outed and his shield won't work anymore because he is no longer running the organization.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    it is just a silly bicycle race.
    why should anyone really care
    Couldn't agree more!! ( i would give you a positive rep but i can't[lol])... i don't even know why the GOV gets involved with issues such as this. one of many wastes of our tax payers money
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  37. #37
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    a radio sports guy said one day ( in reference to MLB/Roger Clemens) if all of the players which most are doping and only 1 or 2 are actually doing anything with it then how is it cheating? " ... personally the only sport i support a drug free program is nascar. because if i was driving 500miles at 200mph with others cars within inches i sure as heck wouldn't when them stoned out of their minds
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    oskolo, Livestrong was brought into it a long time ago, and they are tied to this by Lance. The quote you used really doesn't support your case about it not being about Livestrong, either.
    i thought you were responding to my post, not all posts on this topic. i know what i think about Livestrong and it is different from what you are trying to tell me - that i think. the quote that i posted describes Livestrong as LA's shield - and it was used widely around here as well. even by you. you do acknowledge that LA is a cheater BUT... and then we go with Livestrong etc...

    That was exactly the point of the quote i posted. and you proved it right... not that there is anything wrong with what you did... i understand where you are coming from...



    It is an idea that as far as I can tell was created by Outside Magazine because everyone who likes to cite the tidbit that "Livestrong does not fund research" always throws out that link.........

    The organization definitely DOES good things. It does help people. The way Lance used it is largely irrelevant now because Lance has been outed and his shield won't work anymore because he is no longer running the organization.
    Outside Magazine article states:

    "An Associated Press story from August 2010 described Livestrong as “one of the top 10 groups funding cancer research in the United States.” The comments section of any article about Armstrong will inevitably include messages like this one from ESPN.com: “keep raising millions for cancer research lance, and ignore the haters.” At one point, the foundation brought in a PR consultant to try and clarify the messaging, but Armstrong himself says there’s only so much they can do. “We can’t control what everybody says they’re wearing the bracelets for,” he told me.

    At the same time, though, Armstrong and his supporters help perpetuate the notion that they are, in fact, helping battle cancer in the lab. “I am here to fight this disease,” he angrily told journalist Paul Kimmage at a press conference held during his 2009 comeback."

    Livestrong helps a good cause. I don't dispute that. Though the percentage of what it contributes to helping cancer survivors should be higher.

    i think you are smart enough to know what my point is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shwinn8 View Post
    a radio sports guy said one day ( in reference to MBL/Roger Clemens) if all of the players which most are doping and only 1 or 2 are actually doing anything with it then how is it cheating? " ... personally the only sport i support a drug free program is nascar. because if i was driving 500miles at 200mph with others cars within inches i sure as heck wouldn't when them stoned out of their minds
    Nice NASCAR reference

    But realistically, being 'stoned' or drunk during the race is a non issue - but who was that guy high on acid that killed-it in a F1, Kart? race? - shoot - now I gotta google the intertoobs

    **OK it wasn't racing - it was baseball
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    but who was that guy high on acid that killed-it in a F1, Kart? race? - shoot - now I gotta google the intertoobs
    Acid isn't considered a performance enhancing drug though, is it?

    Searching around I keep finding hits like,

    which is a good LSD for road racing?
    But they are talking about limited slip differentials....

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    Acid isn't considered a performance enhancing drug though, is it?

    ...
    is pot?

    Ross Rebagliati - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    and..
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    it is just a silly bicycle race.
    why should anyone really care
    This.

    I've never idolized or really cared about any "professional" sports. The closest I came I guess was with ski racing, but I was much more happy just out there skiing by myself and encountering and overcoming my own challenges. Lots of people seem to feed upon watching other people overcome challenges. They are sport-spectator fans. They care about what some "team" (of players from all over with no geographic loyalty) does in some random location. They'd rather sit and watch people driving around a circle than go out and having some fun. They'd rather "keep up to date" on all the drama of sports players and their tribulations.

    I'm not saying that it's wrong or not fun to watch a game every once and a while, but for some people, being a spectator IS their sport. They are so far into it that it completely wrecks their world when something like this happens, or they learn about WWF, or that you really can't make it to the highest levels in some sports due to genetics.

    Some of us just don't care. We only had a passing interest in the first place about the TDF or road racing. The world will move on. The only true hero is you, because YOU get out there and ride, YOU do better than your last ride, YOU do something that you thought wasn't possible. It doesn't matter what OTHER people think, and if you've boxed yourself into a corner where you base so much of your world perception on what other people think and do, you'll end up severely disappointed when the folly of man is shown. I don't think LA has to do or say anything for anyone at this point. You should be able to just move on, and hopefully he can do, and do something better. There is nothing positive or productive doing anything otherwise...
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    that this will happen inevitably and regardless of his actions...

    it'd be nice if he owned to it. it would allow most of us to move on...
    It will do nothing to improve road cycling and racing's North American image problem.

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    He won't own up to anything. Dopers suck.

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    And oh yeah; just make an "unlimited class", where you dope and shoot up (and your heart explodes) all you want. When a rider in the "clean"-class is found to be doping, he automatically moves to the "unlimited" class, where his times are probably not as good as the totally-doped-out racers.

    Darwin would take care of the ones shooting up most likely (unless there were benefits that actually did not detract from life in any way).

    Problem solved.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    is pot?
    I don't think either of them are in the typical sense of "performance enhancing".

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    And oh yeah; just make an "unlimited class", where you dope and shoot up (and your heart explodes) all you want. When a rider in the "clean"-class is found to be doping, he automatically moves to the "unlimited" class, where his times are probably not as good as the totally-doped-out racers.

    Darwin would take care of the ones shooting up most likely (unless there were benefits that actually did not detract from life in any way).

    Problem solved.
    That is PERFECT!
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  48. #48
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    I know right? It's way too good of an idea to ever happen.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    I don't think either of them are in the typical sense of "performance enhancing".
    ok - testosterone?
    how about O2?
    red blood cells?
    Cortisone, Cortisol?

    those should be banned - those who say yes should be the 1st to apply to the ban
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    ok - testosterone?
    how about O2?
    red blood cells?
    Cortisone, Cortisol?

    those should be banned...
    Yes, absolutely, those change your muscles and change your blood so there is a "physical advantage", where I assume that weed and LSD just give you a mental advantage, but not in all cases, it could make you think you are an orange too like happened to Syd barrett!

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