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  1. #251
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    Human nature is fascinating. I think poorly of him but it will be interesting to watch how it pans out.

  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySlowRdr View Post
    I still think Lance was a terrific athlete; just his success went to his head. I think but for all of the strongest humans, we get away with what we can. Bad part is he trashed so many in doing so.
    How do we know he was a terrific athlete because he was doping. He's a disgrace and no amount of softball interviews will change that fact. He had me fooled. It seemed that the cyclists who doped got caught in a year or two but Lance strung this lie for a very long time. I hope all cycling federations uphold their punishment just like Pete Rose.

  3. #253
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    Haven't seen it yet - has he dumped on the team manager and doctor and UCI and the testing agencies?

  4. #254
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    Not at all . I thought the two big lies of the interview were of him senying the Christian Van De Velde accusation and the Hey the UCI did not make a deal with me (pay off 2001) oh and the Betsy Andreu story. SCA lawsuit . oh that is three. He simply avoided the team director and owners issue by saying he would only talk about himself.

  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by petersbike View Post
    Not at all . I thought the two big lies of the interview were of him senying the Christian Van De Velde accusation and the Hey the UCI did not make a deal with me (pay off 2001) oh and the Betsy Andreu story. SCA lawsuit . oh that is three. He simply avoided the team director and owners issue by saying he would only talk about himself.
    D you thinks that suggests there is still something going on between LA and the UCI?

  6. #256
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    I don't know and rightly could be worng about the whole thing. From the information that is out there that I have read I feel he made some deal with the UCI.
    Tothe other guy who says that we have all gone 5mph over the speed limit ; Sorry I am not going to rationalize his incorrect behavior. When you get caught doing 5 mph over you suck it up. Now Lance must suck it up. I honestly believe he will be better off regardless of how this affects his finances and status. Lies and secrets revealed are liberating.

  7. #257
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    Confession is only liberating if there's real remorse attached to it. Lance is only sorry he got caught.....not sorry he cheated, lied, bullied, etc. He even said as much in the interview. "If I hadn't come back after retiring we wouldn't be sitting here."

    I mean he did flat out admit most of the things he did..... but he never would've done that had he not been caught.
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  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Confession is only liberating if there's real remorse attached to it. Lance is only sorry he got caught.....not sorry he cheated, lied, bullied, etc. He even said as much in the interview. "If I hadn't come back after retiring we wouldn't be sitting here."

    I mean he did flat out admit most of the things he did..... but he never would've done that had he not been caught.
    ^^^This.
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  9. #259
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    I wanna hear from all his fanbois out there....I started thinking something was fishy in 2003. Man, if you brought up Lance and doping back then you'd have a ton of people coming down on you. I can't tell you how many times people would actually get angry with me for suggesting it.

    It all just didn't add up. He progressively got more and more dominant as each year went by. That didn't make sense. And all the while all the lemmings out there were defending him citing "heart", "determination", and "hard work".

    What do all you lunkheads think now?

  10. #260
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    oprah winfrey, people. american tabloid television at its finest.

    i dunno, to me something doesn't quite smell right about this.

    however, that's just my (humble) opinion and everyone has a right to their own opinion.

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  11. #261
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    Yeah, I wonder how part II is going to be spun.

  12. #262
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    He was a dumb ass. Like everybody else in his time. They were all doing it. Or they all knew to win you had too. It was the culture of the time, probably still is, but the Lords of that sport knew it and know it. They are worse than him. They pretend it is a clean sport. No...Stupid political crap.

    Lance still won them all, as far as I'm concerned.

    I have to ad. If you want to play allstars, Greg LeMond is a monster, no contest.. Sorry Lance. Hah!
    Last edited by flyxaos; 01-18-2013 at 12:58 AM.

  13. #263
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    I didn't watch it and I probably won't for some time. That's my feedback.

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  14. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyxaos View Post
    He was a dumb ass. Like everybody else in his time. They were all doing it. Or they all knew to win you had too. It was the culture of the time, probably still is, but the Lords of that sport knew it and know it. They are worse than him. They pretend it is a clean sport. No...Stupid political crap.

    Lance still won them all, as far as I'm concerned.

    I have to ad. If you want to play allstars, Greg LeMond is a monster, no contest.. Sorry Lance. Hah!
    Agreed. They were all juicing so it was a level playing field and he still won 7 times. Stripping him of the titles is pointless. Does it go to the next cheat that was never caught?

  15. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi_GR_Biker View Post
    Agreed. They were all juicing so it was a level playing field and he still won 7 times. Stripping him of the titles is pointless. Does it go to the next cheat that was never caught?
    You have no idea. Really. Not all teams were injecting junk. Not all teams were pressuring their riders to inject. Do you know any athletes who are 15 years old? Do you want them to start injecting roids so they can win whatever game they are playing?
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  16. #266
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    Ok I keep reading "He was still the best, because he beat all the other cheaters"


    NO.

    This is wrong. It is not correct. As in, false.

    By cheating, even if everyone cheated, the competition was no longer valid. There can only be a winner if there is a level playing field, and the competitors abide by the rules. If half, 3/4, 90% or all of the competitors cheat, you can not determine who is the real winner. Who cheated how much? What was real, what wasn't? The statement that LA would have beat all of them on a level playing field is 100% speculation. It can not be proven anymore than the statement that any of the other guys like Cadel Evans, Pantani, Ulrich or some guy who never made the top 50 would have beaten all the others. It is absolutely impossible to tell if LA truly would have been a superior rider, or if he was just fairly talented, but cheated more ruthlessly than the others.
    And please don't gimme that "he has superior willpower, he was the hardest training athlete" crap.
    Doping affects the psychological side of the competition, knowing that the doctors have given you superhuman strength is guaranteed to boost your morale when you are chasing someone up Alpe D'Huez, or completing another gruelling training ride. Even if its just the believe that you have the better doctors. There are plenty of people out there that should be admired for true, honest willpower that isn't boosted by injections. Just maybe not in the pro circuit.

    That is what it comes down to. Better doctors, and better, more ruthless methods of beating the system. No winner, and no "if"s and "but"s.
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  17. #267
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    And the guy who ran GE for 20 years had fake accounting which made him too a hero although the day he left the business recorded huge writedowns and losses on the (easiest place to cheat) insurance division. Years of painful accountability followed. This is the way America loves it : Heroes and villians.....they sell well. What idiot doesn't think doping is still going on in both professional and top level amateur cycling?

  18. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi_GR_Biker View Post
    Agreed. They were all juicing so it was a level playing field and he still won 7 times. Stripping him of the titles is pointless. Does it go to the next cheat that was never caught?
    Not all of them were doping, what about Christophe Bassons? One of the (admittedly few) riders who refused drugs and was absolutely pilloried for it by a lot of other riders, including Lance. If you don't believe me, read this - Christophe Bassons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    What chance did he ever have of winning? Why not give him the win?

    I have always hated the "they were all on the juice, so it still counts for something" argument, it does nothing for the credibilty of cycling.
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  19. #269
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    My thoughts?

    It wouldn't have been anywhere near as big a deal if he hadn't had a legion of fawning, arse-licking fanboi's repeating his every lie and excusing his cheating and bullying. And they're still doing it.

    The craven, moral pygmies created such a backlash of revulsion toward the man, from people who'd normally not give a damn, that they all but guaranteed his downfall and that the retribution would be severe.

    So all of you "they were all at it" and "tested clean 500 times" and "just jealous losers" merchants, give yourselves a big pat on the back. You didn't cause this but you sure helped make it worse.

  20. #270
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    Watched some of the interview and it has reinforced my opinion that he is just a lying, cheating, arrogant and remorseless SOB. Oprah is just as moronic as ever to allow this, but it does not surprise me, she has built her empire on this fawning BS that she does so well, even when she is interviewing a self-confessed cheating D'bag of the first order. He really should go to prison for a long time for what he has done.


    I just reread this thinking it might be a bit strong, but then realised that I still feel the same way. If he had shown an ounce of contrition I might have softened my opinion...
    It's all Here. Now.

  21. #271
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    Saw some of the interview and he showed no remorse. He is an arrogant a'hole who deserves zero respect and zero forgiveness. Had he shown an ounce of contrition he might have caused me to think twice about saying this, but until he does, I feel the same. The only good he has done in my book is to throw light on this whole issue, an unintended result of course! I only hope the repercussions are deep and far-ranging, and the dishonesty in this sport, and possibly in all sports, is thoroughly investigated and hopefully rooted out. Lance should go to prison, he has committed some pretty serious fraud I believe.
    To those people who ask why get our panties in a wad over this, he's only a cyclist, I say that he has affected many people, and to ignore him is to condone his behavior.
    To those people who say that he is still a great athlete because he was the best of a bad bunch, I call complete BS on that. He is a remorseless cheat and has shattered the dreams of many good people.
    Off with his head!
    It's all Here. Now.

  22. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Saw some of the interview ......Off with his head!
    Something you and I can agree on.

  23. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbucket View Post
    Something you and I can agree on.
    There is always common ground! Usually on a trail somewhere...
    It's all Here. Now.

  24. #274
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    Watched the whole painful interview. An arrogant asshat interviewed by an arrogant asshat. I thought the statement Oprah made about fame and its effects on personality - jerks become bigger jerk, humanitarians become bigger humanitarians. I kinda thought she was aluding that she was the bigger of the two... I mean, she has a magazine that features her on every cover.

    I can't deny that I was duped. I always wanted to believe that he was clean - I always knew he wasn't. I can't deny the good he has done with the Livestrong foundation. He has inspired many. I have always thought he was a jerk, but I likened him to Micheal Jordon or Tiger Woods. That type of person - they have tremendous focus, but they lose touch with reality.

    I wish they would have had someone help Oprah with the interview. She knows absolutely nothing about the sport or the people in it. I'm curious to she what she does in the second half of her show. Want to hear more from George Hincappe. I want to hear more about his comeback and Alberto Contador.

    Did he dope for the Leadville 100 ?

    At the end of it all, Lance is an asshat, but he has raised millions and millions for cancer research and will continue to do that. For that, I'll give him somewhat of a pass. I won't throw away my Livestrong bands because that doesn't mean "Lance Armstrong" to me.

    He rode the bike. That asshat can ride.

  25. #275
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    "He rode the bike. That asshat can ride." Oh wait, he can ride when he's doped! He committed perjury, felony fraud, and his actions will effect the lives of many young cycling athletes who dreamed of a bike-riding career. Those young athletes will be denied. The International Olympic Committee said it will not allow cycling (Road or MTB) in future games if the UCI was complicit in his actions (they were). His sponsors will claw back all of his wages; he will lose all of his winnings; he will not have much, if any assets remaining after all of this. The only good thing that came from any of this is the Live Strong Foundation. That entity will continue to do good things.

  26. #276
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    The light air in the room, and the laughter made it obvious why he selected a talkshow host and not a news reporter to conduct the interview...I think he's only making things worse for himself...if that's even possible.

    One comment that really burns me...he couldn't remember whether or not he sued Emma O'reilly because he had sued so many people. Yet another slap in the face....

  27. #277
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    the phone call

    lance: Hi oprah, ths is lance
    oprah: hi lance
    L: listen i need to confess to get these people off my back, would you be interested in that interview?
    O: sure, can i ask all the hard questions?
    L: sure, but i will write the script
    O: no
    L: come on your network is about to go under, you need me
    O: ok, but we have to at least make it look good
    L: right, and it has to look sincere too
    the time is right for violent revolution

  28. #278
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    does anybody have a screen cap of his face after she rolled the tape of his testimony saying that Michele Ferrari was a clean doctor. that was priceless

  29. #279
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    Here's a question. Would you guys go on a ride with him?
    Last edited by Millfox; 01-18-2013 at 08:24 AM.

  30. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    oprah winfrey, people. american tabloid television at its finest.

    i dunno, to me something doesn't quite smell right about this.

    however, that's just my (humble) opinion and everyone has a right to their own opinion.
    100% agree, was never really a big Armstrong fan but something really doesn't add about all of this, there is definitely more than meets the eye and a hell of a lot more sh*t waiting to hit the fan. What really sticks out is that other cyclists like George Hincapie that testified against Lance and admitted to doping only received a 6 month ban apposed to Lance's lifetime ban. But meh, I don't think I really care, people are getting far too worked up over all of this, especially the morons who think Armstrong should get a jail sentence.
    Last edited by StevieGriff; 01-18-2013 at 11:07 AM.

  31. #281
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    Fat joke in front of Oprah

    I loved the look on her face when Lance made a fat joke, something like "at least I didn't call her fat".
    I want her to ask "what did Trek know?", "what did the sponsors know?". Lots of people made money off of Lance's success, I suspect that made it easier to get away with it for all these years!
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  32. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Confession is only liberating if there's real remorse attached to it. Lance is only sorry he got caught.....not sorry he cheated, lied, bullied, etc. He even said as much in the interview. "If I hadn't come back after retiring we wouldn't be sitting here."

    I mean he did flat out admit most of the things he did..... but he never would've done that had he not been caught.
    Seemed to me the "confession" was more about him than any genuine intent or remorse to make things right.

    "Yes, I doped, but...."
    "Yes, I did that, but...."
    "Yes, I said that, but...."

    There was an attempt to justify or at least minimize it all and none of it was his fault. It was the culture. Dope in your blood was like air in your tires... you had to have it to ride. None of it was his fault or anything he could have done anything about or change.

    No, it seemed to me to be more spin than anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi_GR_Biker View Post
    Agreed. They were all juicing so it was a level playing field and he still won 7 times. Stripping him of the titles is pointless. Does it go to the next cheat that was never caught?
    I've heard so many people say that and I wonder if it's a true statement. Dope will have different effects on people - more on some, less on others - so is it really level? Is this an argument with any merit whatsoever? I don't think it is.

    To answer your question about the titles, they're just leaving them open; no one won the Tour during those years.

  33. #283
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    I truly believe that because of Lance's story of achievement - near defeat - comeback; it generated soooo much media attention and MONEY through the years that the cycling community turned a blind eye. He was too big to fail. They could've took him down anytime they wanted to. Just think of all the people who got caught cheating while Lance just kept on riding.

  34. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevieGriff View Post
    100% agree, was never really a big Armstrong fan but something really doesn't add about all of this, there is definitely more than meets the eye and a hell of a lot more sh*t waiting to hit the fan. What really sits out as well is that none of the other cyclists like George Hincapie that testified against Lance and admitted to doping only received a 6 month ban apposed to Lance's lifetime ban. But meh, I don't think I really care, people are getting far too worked up over all of this, especially the morons who think Armstrong should get a jail sentence.
    You know perjury and fraud are felony offenses with minimum jail or prison sentences, right?
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  35. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millfox View Post
    Here's a question. Would you guys go on a ride with him?
    I'd love to................and throw a tire pump in his spokes!

  36. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by lelebebbel View Post
    Ok I keep reading "He was still the best, because he beat all the other cheaters"


    NO.

    This is wrong. It is not correct. As in, false.

    By cheating, even if everyone cheated, the competition was no longer valid. There can only be a winner if there is a level playing field, and the competitors abide by the rules. If half, 3/4, 90% or all of the competitors cheat, you can not determine who is the real winner. Who cheated how much? What was real, what wasn't? The statement that LA would have beat all of them on a level playing field is 100% speculation. It can not be proven anymore than the statement that any of the other guys like Cadel Evans, Pantani, Ulrich or some guy who never made the top 50 would have beaten all the others. It is absolutely impossible to tell if LA truly would have been a superior rider, or if he was just fairly talented, but cheated more ruthlessly than the others.
    And please don't gimme that "he has superior willpower, he was the hardest training athlete" crap.
    Doping affects the psychological side of the competition, knowing that the doctors have given you superhuman strength is guaranteed to boost your morale when you are chasing someone up Alpe D'Huez, or completing another gruelling training ride. Even if its just the believe that you have the better doctors. There are plenty of people out there that should be admired for true, honest willpower that isn't boosted by injections. Just maybe not in the pro circuit.

    That is what it comes down to. Better doctors, and better, more ruthless methods of beating the system. No winner, and no "if"s and "but"s.
    ^^^^^ This.
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    A little bit of pee just trickled out of my pipi when I saw that.

  37. #287
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    I ride a 26'er with tubes and rim brakes.
    Yeah, I'm basically living in the stone age.

  38. #288
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    I'm guessing that Oprah will somehow get the interview to end with the focus on the Livestrong foundation. Their donations will keep coming. They will continue to do good. For the time being, it will be without Lance. He will be back with Livestrong at some point. He can and will do good there. More than we will ever know.


    Sucks for cycling. He didn't invent doping. I actually believe that he believes that EPO etc comes along with the game - air in the tires, water in the bottle. He's delusional at best. Almost feel sorry for him....almost. Once an asshat, always an asshat. He is a sociopath.

    FU Cancer. Everybody donate, no matter how small, it helps.

  39. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by lelebebbel View Post
    Ok I keep reading "He was still the best, because he beat all the other cheaters"


    NO.

    This is wrong. It is not correct. As in, false.

    By cheating, even if everyone cheated, the competition was no longer valid. There can only be a winner if there is a level playing field, and the competitors abide by the rules. If half, 3/4, 90% or all of the competitors cheat, you can not determine who is the real winner. Who cheated how much? What was real, what wasn't? The statement that LA would have beat all of them on a level playing field is 100% speculation. It can not be proven anymore than the statement that any of the other guys like Cadel Evans, Pantani, Ulrich or some guy who never made the top 50 would have beaten all the others. It is absolutely impossible to tell if LA truly would have been a superior rider, or if he was just fairly talented, but cheated more ruthlessly than the others.
    And please don't gimme that "he has superior willpower, he was the hardest training athlete" crap.
    Doping affects the psychological side of the competition, knowing that the doctors have given you superhuman strength is guaranteed to boost your morale when you are chasing someone up Alpe D'Huez, or completing another gruelling training ride. Even if its just the believe that you have the better doctors. There are plenty of people out there that should be admired for true, honest willpower that isn't boosted by injections. Just maybe not in the pro circuit.

    That is what it comes down to. Better doctors, and better, more ruthless methods of beating the system. No winner, and no "if"s and "but"s.
    YES. Very well said.

  40. #290
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    I'm just glad that it will no longer be acceptable for men to wear stupid yellow rubber bracelets.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  41. #291
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    The whole thing's freakin' sad. I really looked up to the guy, only to discover that he is, as previously mentioned, an epic asshat. One of the last century's greatest liars. I think his fall has only begun. Many lawsuits & possible perjury charges to follow. Marion Grace did 6 months for perjuring herself to the feds, Lance could be looking at the same thing.

    While I question the decision to bar him from competition - who is the federal government to dictate who can and cannot ride their bike in a race?? - I ultimately think he deserves it. He's revealed himself to be a sociopathic liar. Who's to say that he'll stop doping? He's shown that he's very skillful at avoiding detection as well. He bought the ticket for this trip, let the asshat take it.
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  42. #292
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    My answer to the OP's question: Not anytime soon. MF'r needs to CURE cancer or something. Then maybe.
    Check out my You Tube Channel

  43. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by B-Mac View Post
    The whole thing's freakin' sad. I really looked up to the guy, only to discover that he is, as previously mentioned, an epic asshat. One of the last century's greatest liars. I think his fall has only begun. Many lawsuits & possible perjury charges to follow. Marion Grace did 6 months for perjuring herself to the feds, Lance could be looking at the same thing.

    While I question the decision to bar him from competition - who is the federal government to dictate who can and cannot ride their bike in a race?? - I ultimately think he deserves it. He's revealed himself to be a sociopathic liar. Who's to say that he'll stop doping? He's shown that he's very skillful at avoiding detection as well. He bought the ticket for this trip, let the asshat take it.
    He subscribed to the rules of USADA and the UCI to race bicycles. There for he must abide by the ban placed upon him. Lifetime ban good.

  44. #294
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    The reason Lance got hammered wasn't for doing drugs but for being an obstinate D-Bag. All the best TDF riders did drugs...and some of the commoners. I couldn't care less...

  45. #295
    I'm just messing with you
    Reputation: wv_bob's Avatar
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    Everybody sing along
    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9Wrn7gPN1-Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  46. #296
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    Didn't read many posts but are there people out there that actually care that he doped? There's more important things going on than whether or not someone doped, especially in the cycling world where doping is prominent at the highest level.

    I take issue with the fact that he financially and professionally ruined people he was once close to because they were telling the truth.

  47. #297
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    I'm not sure what some of you were expecting from the interview (harakiri perhaps?), but I didn't hear one excuse for what he did and just admitted it.

    Yes, he said for him dope in his blood was like air in your tires, but he was talking about himself, not the Tour. He even said the excuse that everyone else was doing it isn't an excuse and everyone wasn't doing it. This is all on me. I was the team captain, I should have lead by example and I was a bad example. He even called himself a cheating bullying prick (or something like that).

    He might end up in jail. He might end up bankrupt. Does he deserve it? Yes.

    But I think the best thing he can do now is devote his life to charity work. He'll save more lives than most of us combined on this forum ever will. That's not an excuse for a pass, but at least he's done some good with what he cheated to get. There are so many cheats and lairs in this world that have done similar (whether in sport, businesses or politics) and have done it all for themselves.

    The question is will he be greedy and do nothing, or will he use his fame to do something good with it? Hopefully the latter, but we shall see.....

  48. #298
    the train keeps rollin
    Reputation: snowdrifter's Avatar
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    Question for those who follow road racing Closely. Please, in your honest opinion, name the last rider to win the TDF Clean, no PEDs.

    I would like to think Cadel won clean, but he met with Lance's doping doctor Ferrari in 2000, he does seem to suffer much more than the rest of the GC leaders, still doubtful.

    I have to go back to 1990, Greg Lemond.

    Edit: 2008 Carlos Sastre, seems quite clean.
    Last edited by snowdrifter; 01-18-2013 at 10:02 AM.
    beaver hunt

  49. #299
    Give it a crank
    Reputation: Mtn-Rider's Avatar
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    After seeing his Oprah interview, I have no more doubts about LA being a compulsive liar who deserves to pay for the damages he has inflicted. Hit him hard, send out the right message, clean up the mess for a better future.

  50. #300
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    I forget

    What are we suppossed to forget???

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