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  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whore View Post
    No it doesn't and Since he has been doping for his whole career you do not really know if with out it he is "just another rider" anyhow which i highly doubt.
    wow, just wow.....

  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    wow, just wow.....
    I am appalled that you are let down that sadly doping is prevalent in all professional sports even with heavy testing. So to that end i really do not care what lance Armstrong did. Would he have won at the Olympics without doping? Quite possibly....Would he have won all 7 tours probably not...1or 2 i give the nod to doable.

  3. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whore View Post
    Glad we could clear that up.
    you can start dating now.

    LeMond wannabe.. i like that...
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  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whore View Post
    But seriously dude did not become one of the best cycling athletes we have ever seen just from/because of doping it still take massive Training,Dedication and Time. Doping did not make him but did helped.
    before doping: a mediocre performing pack filler who never finished a tour.
    after doping: 7 successive wins.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  5. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whore View Post
    I am appalled that you are let down that sadly doping is prevalent in all professional sports even with heavy testing. So to that end i really do not care what lance Armstrong did. Would he have won at the Olympics without doping? Quite possibly....Would he have won all 7 tours probably not...1or 2 i give the nod to doable.
    i think that without doping, he would still be better than me.

    he would not win the TdF without doping, based on his previous results.

    he would not win the Olympics, based on his previous results.

    but he would beat me. so i almost agree with you. or not.
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  6. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    and when you call someone else a retard - you tell so much about yourself. don't you?
    No, just everyone that disagrees with my opinion.

    I mean after all that is what all the anti Lance people obviously think so I may as well join that train of though.

  7. #507
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    Word.

    I have been reading all your thought's about Lance. I saw the interview
    with Oprah. I have been a Huge Fan of Lance. Though my favorite is Hincappie{sp?]
    I remember working for Specialized in 20005/06 just getting Laughed at by the Boy's.
    I was defending him,I was hoping it was not true? Greg did it? No? Yes, it was only
    3,but tome that is off the chart in term's of pure Hate. So mabye Lance could do it?
    I will leave with this for tonight. Can you all give me your thought's on Greg Lemond?
    I read about some nasty stuff between the two. Will Trek take down that Huge picture of Lance and put one of Greg up? So Greg is USA's greatest roadie right? Word,I'm
    out.

    MTK

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    No, just everyone that disagrees with my opinion.

    I mean after all that is what all the anti Lance people obviously think so I may as well join that train of though.

    that would indeed bring a kumbaya closure to this thread.
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  9. #509
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    If I was Lance's legal counsel, I would be suggesting that he immediately moves to Spain.

    Then offer-up to the Spanish Authorities, 68 US riders, several lazy UCI officials and a hand-full of dodgy medical staff involved with doping, then quote a little known precedent concerning Dr Eufemiano Fuentes and Operación Puerto and some creepy guy called El Pistolero.
    .
    Lance then could have his <b>death sentence</b> back-dated to his last <i>positive</i> drug test ... or even to his first <i>positive</i> drug bust. He then, could be back racing, within a week or two.

    An important historic precedent that should also be cited is ... <i>The acceptance of drug-taking in the Tour de France was so complete by 1930 that the rule book, distributed by Henri Desgrange, reminded riders that drugs would not be provided by the organisers.</i>

    If Lance wanted to get back in the fan's good books, he should haul Honey Boo Boo around the Pyrenees on training rides. Lance and Honey Boo Boo in the Pyrenees, could be a big winner on Oprah's Histrionics Channel. I find that cosy fire side chats, just don't do it for me.

    Warren.

    PS, If anyone close to Lance needs further advice? ... email Alberto Contradoper El Pistolero.
    Last edited by Wild Wassa; 01-20-2013 at 07:22 PM.

  10. #510
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    Allegations of doping has been in the TDF apparently since its beginning,

    What is even funnier is at one point alcohol was considered doping.
    Yet, beer seems to be a very acceptable part of biking today

    Doping at the Tour de France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Towards the bottom there is a list of riders caught doping.
    The list thins out towards more recent years, but were they clean or not just caught?
    For that matter were the rest of the riders in more previous year clean or just not caught?

    Look at the top 10 riders in the years that LA won. Every year, 7-9 of the top 10 riders had at least the suspicion of of doping. Remember, until now, LA also just had the suspicion of doping. So all those not on the doper list could be added at any time but most likely won't since they are not on top.

  11. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by wild wassa View Post
    if i was lance's legal counsel, i would be suggesting that he immediately moves to spain.

    Then offer-up to the spanish authorities, 68 us riders, several lazy uci officials and a hand-full of dodgy medical staff involved with doping, then quote a little known precedent concerning dr eufemiano fuentes and operación puerto and some creepy guy called el pistolero.
    .
    Lance then could have his <b>death sentence</b> back-dated to his last <i>positive</i> drug test ... Or even to his first <i>positive</i> drug bust. He then, could be back racing, within a week or two.

    An important historic precedent that should also be cited is ... <i>the acceptance of drug-taking in the tour de france was so complete by 1930 that the rule book, distributed by henri desgrange, reminded riders that drugs would not be provided by the organisers.</i>

    if lance wanted to get back in the fan's good books, he should haul honey boo boo around the pyrenees on training rides. Lance and honey boo boo in the pyrenees, could be a big winner on oprah's histrionics channel. I find that cosy fire side chats, just don't do it for me.

    Warren.

    Ps, if anyone close to lance needs further advice? ... Email alberto contradoper el pistolero.
    Name:  photo(2).JPG
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    Will trade for some chicken.

  12. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Allegations of doping has been in the TDF apparently since its beginning
    it was not prohibited until 1963. therein lies the difference.

    before 1963 it was not illegal or prohibited to dope.

    after 1963 it was against the rules (i.e. prohibited) to dope.

    see the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued
    ~pro-doping tripe snipped~
    yeah, we get it. you're ok with what lance did. what's with your obsession to rub everyone's nose in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued
    Remember, until now, LA also just had the suspicion of doping.
    wrong. he failed 8 drug tests. that's called "substantiation" not "suspicion".

    the irony is apparent to most, if not all, of us that you rag on the english skills and reading comprehension of others yet consistently struggle with the basics yourself...
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  13. #513
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    Blah, blah, blah.

    Most of you aren't worthy of even sniffing Lances' compression shorts.

    All this holier than thou stuff - SHUT UP!!

  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by legking View Post
    Blah, blah, blah.

    Most of you aren't worthy of even sniffing Lances' compression shorts.

    All this holier than thou stuff - SHUT UP!!
    You are back and this is the best you can do? I'm going to give you a good piece of advice: Take a step back from the keyboard, it's only the internet. Post some content about mountain biking. Do so in a tone that isn't confrontational. Stay unbanned.
    Try this: HTFU

  15. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    all lance posts in passion merged.
    Passion is still non-fiction, they really need to go under cycling fiction.

    Library prank sends Armstrong books to fiction section - Yahoo! News

  16. #516
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    Maplewood Bicycle posted this on their Facebook page:


  17. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadsters View Post
    Maplewood Bicycle posted this on their Facebook page:

    That's Awesome !!!

  18. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    ~anti-doping tripe snipped~
    yeah, we get it. you're not ok with what lance did. what's with your obsession to rub everyone's nose in it?




    You see what I did there?

    You keep posting your anti LA stuff and it is ok.
    But if somebody posts anything that remotely goes against that then they have an obsession to rub eveyone's nose it. That is just ridiculous.

    Maybe we should just have two LA threads.
    One for everyone that thinks he worse than Hitler, child molesters, rapists and murders.
    Another for those that simply just understand why he did it and played the same game all the other top cyclists were playing. That way, there wouldn't be any "nose rubbing".

  19. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    That's Awesome !!!

    I agree, that picture is Awesome!!!

  20. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued;10092411
    Maybe we should just have two LA threads.



    None would be better, then there would be zero sh!ts given.

  21. #521
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    Hah!
    Go to livestrong.com and try Lance Armstrong in the search box.

  22. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    yeah, we get it. you're not ok with what lance did. what's with your obsession to rub everyone's nose in it?




    You see what I did there?

    You keep posting your anti LA stuff and it is ok.
    But if somebody posts anything that remotely goes against that then they have an obsession to rub eveyone's nose it. That is just ridiculous.

    Maybe we should just have two LA threads.
    One for everyone that thinks he worse than Hitler, child molesters, rapists and murders.
    Another for those that simply just understand why he did it and played the same game all the other top cyclists were playing. That way, there wouldn't be any "nose rubbing".
    yeah, i see what you did there. you tried to make it look like having a problem with sociopathic antisocial personality disorder behavior is uncool, questionable, and socially unacceptable.

    lance is a blatant sociopath with antisocial personality disorder. APD affects only 3% of males and 1% of females. thus, 3% of the male population would see nothing wrong with what he did and would sympathize, rationalize, justify, and minimalize his behavior while the other 97% of males (and 99% of females) in this world find his behavior (along with any defense of that behavior) repugnant, immoral, and offensive.

    so clearly the mindset of decrying sociopathic, felonious, abhorrent character/behavior places those who engage in it in the 97% of above mentioned males while your obsession of minimalizing, rationalizing, and justifying it places you in the other 3%.

    get it now?
    Last edited by monogod; 01-21-2013 at 02:48 PM.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  23. #523
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    and 87% of statistics are made up on the spot. lol

    Seriously, you get nothing of what I have said the whole time.
    I have only said I UNDERSTAND why he did what he did.
    I never said I feel sorry for the guy and I have even said just because I UNDERSTAND what he did that I didn't think it was OK yet some people would think that I am rationalizing his actions.

    That being said, I don't think he he is a complete scum because of his actions. I just think he is a guy who made a wrong decision, got caught in a lie and tried to lie his way out as so many TDF riders have in the past. People will tell you he has no remorse. Maybe so, but I choose not to judge people. That being said, I doubt any of the other TDF riders who got caught had any real remorse either. They just fessed up when they felt they could no longer lie their way out (Lance just carried the lie on longer). Then in return for a lesser sentence they turned in other people for doping. Don't you think that if they really had remorse, they would have done that and not taken a lesser sentence?

    If somebody truly had remorse for their actions, would they have not turned themselves in prior to being accused? I am not going to go back and loo up the names, but it only appears that two riders ever did that.

    Now, if LA is truly has APD then should we really hate him or actually have a little sympathy and hope he gets treatment for his problem?

    You can attack my character all you want, it really does not bother me as I know who I am and what I stand for. I realize that nobody is perfect, everyone makes mistakes and most people usually deserve a second chance unless maybe their crimes were extremely grievous. If you consider cheating in the TDF to be an extremely grievous crime, then their is something seriously wrong with you.

  24. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    and 87% of statistics are made up on the spot. lol
    the DSM-IV is not book of made-up statistics.

    APD affects 3% of males. linky

    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued
    That being said, I don't think he he is a complete scum because of his actions.
    unlike most people who DO think that felonious, lying, cheating, bullying sociopaths ARE complete scum.

    starting to make sense now?

    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued
    You can attack my character all you want, it really does not bother me as I know who I am and what I stand for.
    it's not a personal attack on a duck to call it a duck when it looks, walks, and quacks like a duck.

    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued
    I realize that nobody is perfect, everyone makes mistakes and most people usually deserve a second chance unless maybe their crimes were extremely grievous.
    no one has stated, implied, nor could any reasonably sane person infer that calling "wrong" by its rightful name is synonymous with a claim of personal infallibility. whether by myself or others.

    do you think what LA did was extremely grievous? yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued
    If you consider cheating in the TDF to be an extremely grievous crime, then their is something seriously wrong with you.
    if you do not consider over a decade of lying, cheating, blackmailing, retaliation, lawsuits, ruining the lives/credibility/careers of people, destroying people financially out of spite, purjery, being part of organized crime activity, contractual fraud, and intimidation to be extremely grievous crimes then there is something seriously wrong with you.

    checkmate.
    Last edited by monogod; 01-21-2013 at 03:54 PM.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  25. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    checkmate.
    There is no "checkmate" because that would be assuming you can win and you can't
    Not saying I can either.
    We are just two people with different opinions on the how bad what he did is and we will never agree.

    So instead of checkmate, it is stalemate.

    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    if you do not consider over a decade of lying, cheating, blackmailing, retaliation, lawsuits, ruining the lives/credibility/careers of people, destroying people financially out of spite, purjery, being part of organized crime activity, contractual fraud, and intimidation to be extremely grievous crimes then there is something seriously wrong with you.
    Welcome to our federal government. Sad thing is, some people seem to be more disgusted about what some guy did in a race that has zero effect on our lives then they are at our own federal government.

    Maybe the guy that LA for President several posts back had a good ideal after all.

  26. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    i asked you a simple and profoundly straightforward "yes or no" question.

    do you think lance's actions are extremely grievous?
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  27. #527
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    I just know I'm glad they put Lance's face all over honey stinger waffles. Then they have to burn their stock for cheap (16pack for 11.95) yay!

  28. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    i asked you a simple and profoundly straightforward "yes or no" question.

    do you think lance's actions are extremely grievous?
    Well, I have asked you very simple and profoundly straight forward questions way earlier in this thread but yet you never answered it.

    I prefer salmon by the way.

    I think it is pretty obvious what my answer is but I will spell it out for.

    I consider what Adolf Hitler to have done to be extremely grievous.
    Charles Manson was extremely grievous.
    Al-Qaeda have committed extremely acts
    The numb nuts who killed all the children in Sandy Hooks committed an extremely grievous act.
    People that rape, molest children, murder other people commit extremely grievous acts.

    Cheating in the TDF and being a jerk is not extremely grievous and if you feel it is then you priorities in life need some readjusting.

  29. #529
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    BTW, since we are asking simple and direct questions and I answered yours.

    I have a simple and direct question for you....actually a 4 questions.

    Have you ever lied?
    Have you ever cheated?
    Did you always show true remorse for those actions?
    Is there anything lies or cheats that you have never fessed up to?
    Last edited by kjlued; 01-21-2013 at 04:37 PM.

  30. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moustache rider View Post
    Hah!
    Go to livestrong.com and try Lance Armstrong in the search box.
    LIVESTRONG Search Results
    We're sorry, but no results matched your search. Please search again.
    That's beyond AWESOME

  31. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    If you consider cheating in the TDF to be an extremely grievous crime, then their is something seriously wrong with you.
    if you do not consider over a decade of lying, cheating, blackmailing, retaliation, lawsuits, ruining the lives/credibility/careers of people, destroying people financially out of spite, purjery, being part of organized crime activity, contractual fraud, and intimidation to be extremely grievous crimes then there is something seriously wrong with you.

    checkmate.
    griev·ous
    2. flagrant; outrageous; atrocious: a grievous offense against morality.


  32. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod
    i asked you a simple and profoundly straightforward "yes or no" question.

    do you think lance's actions are extremely grievous?
    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued
    I think it is pretty obvious what my answer is but I will spell it out for.

    I consider what Adolf Hitler to have done to be extremely grievous.
    Charles Manson was extremely grievous.
    Al-Qaeda have committed extremely acts
    The numb nuts who killed all the children in Sandy Hooks committed an extremely grievous act.
    People that rape, molest children, murder other people commit extremely grievous acts.

    Cheating in the TDF and being a jerk is not extremely grievous and if you feel it is then you priorities in life need some readjusting.
    wow... i ask a simple yes or no question and get the above blathering, obfuscation, and avoidance in response.

    let's try once more...

    do you consider a decade plus of lying (including to his own children), cheating, blackmailing, retaliation, groundless lawsuits, intentionally ruining the lives/credibility/careers of people, destroying people financially out of spite, bribery to cover up failed drug tests and silence people, numerous counts of perjury, being part of organized crime activity, contractual fraud, and intimidation to be extremely grievous actions?

    yes or no?
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  33. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    wow... i ask a simple yes or no question and get the above blathering, obfuscation, and avoidance in response.
    Are you really too dumb to see my answer on that?
    I mean seriously, are you that dumb?

    At least I gave you a response but yet once again you don't even attempt to answer my simple questions.

    Talk about read herring.

    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post

    do you consider a decade plus of lying (including to his own children), cheating, blackmailing, retaliation, groundless lawsuits, intentionally ruining the lives/credibility/careers of people, destroying people financially out of spite, bribery to cover up failed drug tests and silence people, numerous counts of perjury, being part of organized crime activity, contractual fraud, and intimidation to be extremely grievous actions?
    Oh, and quit over dramatizing because you are really starting to sound like a drama queen.

  34. #534
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    you guys are going to need a room...soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbucket View Post
    you guys are going to need a room...soon.
    Can we use yours?

  36. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Are you really too dumb to see my answer on that?
    I mean seriously, are you that dumb?
    the irony of you calling someone dumb while being incapable of typing either "yes" or "no" to a point blank question is not lost on anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by monogod
    do you consider a decade plus of lying (including to his own children), cheating, blackmailing, retaliation, groundless lawsuits, intentionally ruining the lives/credibility/careers of people, destroying people financially out of spite, bribery to cover up failed drug tests and silence people, numerous counts of perjury, being part of organized crime activity, contractual fraud, and intimidation to be extremely grievous actions?

    yes or no?
    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued
    Oh, and quit over dramatizing because you are really starting to sound like a drama queen.
    refusal to acknowledge the facts on your part does not constitute over-dramatization on my part by recounting them.

    the question stands...
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    do you consider a decade plus of lying (including to his own children), cheating, blackmailing, retaliation, groundless lawsuits, intentionally ruining the lives/credibility/careers of people, destroying people financially out of spite, bribery to cover up failed drug tests and silence people, numerous counts of perjury, being part of organized crime activity, contractual fraud, and intimidation to be extremely grievous actions?

    yes or no?
    I'll take YES THIS DESCRIBES LANCE ARMSTRONG for $1000, Alex

  38. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    the irony of you calling someone dumb while being incapable of typing either "yes" or "no" to a point blank question is not lost on anyone.


    refusal to acknowledge the facts on your part does not constitute over-dramatization on my part by recounting them.

    the question stands...
    Ok, I will play your little game since you are too thick to figure it out on your own.

    No, I do not consider his actions extremely grievous.

    Now, will you quit throwing red herrings up stop avoiding my questions.

    Remember, only yes or no answers. (Your rules, not mine)

  39. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Can we use yours?
    Sorry, I took a vote...No is the result.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Ok, I will play your little game since you are too thick to figure it out on your own.

    No, I do not consider his actions extremely grievous.

    Now, will you quit throwing red herrings up stop avoiding my questions.

    Remember, only yes or no answers. (Your rules, not mine)
    Are you LA's attorney?
    You are adamant about defending a scumbag, the guy that created the biggest fraud in sporting history, what the hell is wrong with you? Don't you want to see a example set for the rest? Cyling has been pretty clean the last few years, it's called progression.
    I am really trying to comprehend how an individual can sit here and defend a person who basically treats other humans like feces. You have been defending him in every LA thread like a madman, you contributed in the locking of a LA thread as well. Seriously, take a break, we know where you stand. You're not going to stop until this thread is locked as well.

  41. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Can we use yours?
    you can use mine... as long as that will make you STFU...

    plus, if you relax, you may even enjoy it...

    Lance got what he deserved. I wonder if they used onion fumes to make him cry... Or Oprah squeezed his nut.
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    Everyone arguing in this thread is wasting a hell of a lot of their time. I care enough about you guys to spend some of my time so that everyone can do something else. Living, breathing, spending energy; for what? It isn't worth a bowl of pinto beans.

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  43. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbucket View Post
    Sorry, I took a vote...No is the result.
    Well damn, that is just selfish.

    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Are you LA's attorney?
    You are adamant about defending a scumbag, the guy that created the biggest fraud in sporting history, what the hell is wrong with you? Don't you want to see a example set for the rest? Cyling has been pretty clean the last few years, it's called progression.
    I am really trying to comprehend how an individual can sit here and defend a person who basically treats other humans like feces. You have been defending him in every LA thread like a madman, you contributed in the locking of a LA thread as well. Seriously, take a break, we know where you stand. You're not going to stop until this thread is locked as well.

    Ahh yes, if I am not with you, I am against you.
    You think he is a scumbag, I don't so I am a supporter. lol

    No, I just don't think he is evil person you think he is.
    I mean seriously they way some of you talk, you would think this guy is the anti-Christ. lol

    Cycling has been clean for the last few years.....that we know of.
    Regardless though, we are not talking about the last few years.
    Yes, progression is great. I hope cycling gets clean.

    I have been defending every LA thread like a madman and contributed to the locking of a thread.

    Well, you have been condemning LA like a madman and contributed to a thread getting locked. Maybe you should seriously take a break. I mean honestly, if you don't like what I have to say then do not reply to me or address me.....or do you secretly enjoy this useless banter?

    I am not going to stop until this thread is locked?
    Maybe, but I suppose the same could be said to you.
    Yet in your feeble little mind, it will be fault and you will never see your part in it.

    I have said it before, if you don't like my responses then don't address me. But what you do, don't ***** and whine because we don't see eye to eye even though you keep address me.

    I will bet you can't resist responding and then *****ing about my response again.

  44. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    you can use mine... as long as that will make you STFU...

    plus, if you relax, you may even enjoy it...

    Lance got what he deserved. I wonder if they used onion fumes to make him cry... Or Oprah squeezed his nut.
    Sorry, I pitch, I don't catch.

    However, I bet you know a lot about relaxing so you can enjoy it.

    Time for you to have a nice hot cup of STFU.

  45. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued
    Ok, I will play your little game since you are too thick to figure it out on your own.
    hmmmm.... seems to me we've had your number for quite some time, and you've gotten all butthurt when confronted with it -- going so far as to deny what was obviously true. (a page straight out of the LA playbook).

    it's been suggested by many that your moral compass points to the same malignant north as LA's, something which you've vociferously and repetitively denied. something to which you've responded with name calling and attempts to discredit those who suggested it. (another page right out of the LA playbook)

    but then the truth comes out...

    Quote Originally Posted by monogod
    do you consider a decade plus of lying (including to his own children), cheating, blackmailing, retaliation, groundless lawsuits, intentionally ruining the lives/credibility/careers of people, destroying people financially out of spite, bribery to cover up failed drug tests and silence people, numerous counts of perjury, being part of organized crime activity, contractual fraud, and intimidation to be extremely grievous actions?

    yes or no?
    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued
    No, I do not consider his actions extremely grievous.
    yep... that's precisely the answer one would expect from a 3%'er.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  46. #546
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    And yet you still can not answer a few yes or no questions.

    What are you hiding?

    I am going to bed, look forward to your next red herring.

  47. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    And yet you still can not answer a few yes or no questions.

    What are you hiding?

    I am going to bed, look forward to your next red herring.
    aside from the fact you clearly have no idea what a red herring is and are merely erroneously regurgitating something you've heard, you've failed to comprehend that your questions were already answered in this post.

    to wit: "no one has stated, implied, nor could any reasonably sane person infer that calling "wrong" by its rightful name is synonymous with a claim of personal infallibility. whether by myself or others."

    seems your reading comprehension is about as developed as your sense of morality and common decency...
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy f View Post
    I'm much more put off by the way he treated people than the dope itself. Pressuring others to dope, bending over backwards to destroy the careers and lives of those who opposed him or threatened to expose his doping are far more heinous offenses IMO.
    You need to check back in at f88, Andy. There's a new sheriff in town.

    Oh...and your summary above is the best post in this thread. You put it in perspective, just right.

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  50. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Thanks Monogod, you make some great points, and I heartily agree with what you are saying. I think that 'conventional' western medicine does have a lot going for it however, and we would be wise to not write it off. In conjunction with holistic methods, and in conjunction with sympathetic care there is little that cannot be completely cured. Greed and the need to 'perform' in all the wrong ways has led us astray in both the fields of medicine, and in pro sports!
    thanks for the intelligent comments and discussion, rocker. this is a topic very near and dear to me as one of my life goals is to start a health and wellness retreat to give people alternatives to western medicine.

    i couldn't agree more with the last sentence in your post, but don't get me wrong bro -- i do think conventional western medicine has its place. on that i agree with you totally as well. same with pharmacology. however, imho pharmacology and surgery are used too often when holistic methods would better serve the patient.

    when someone's triglycerides are high it's not because they have a shortage of Lipitor in their system, it's because of their diet/lifestyle. so why is Lipitor the general long term "solution"? why not treat the CAUSE of the problem instead of merely addressing the symptoms of it? this is my main point.

    i've worked on post CABG (coronary artery bypass graft) units and they simply do not teach patients how to alter their lifestyles post CABG. the patient is set up for failure because rather than being educated on what clogged their arteries in the first place they are cut open, patched up, and sent home only to continue to diet/lifestyle that lead to the occlusions in the first place. why cut and implement long term pharmacological approaches when the patient could well have enjoyed complete reversal and unblockage solely by a commitment to lifestyle change?

    are some meds a good idea during implementation of this new paradigm? especially thinners/anti-coagulants? certainly. but they should be used as stabilization methods only rather than the long term solution. they should be used only to assist in holistic measures rather than seen as the cure.

    pharmacological measures in general should be used for imminent interventions only and weened off asap instead of being used as a long term crutch and/or bandaid. the amount of drugs we give in hospitals is absolutely astounding! it's not uncommon to have a patient on 10-15 routines and another 10-15 prn meds. pain meds are one thing, but non-pain related meds are quite another.

    if you haven't seen the vids i mentioned previously check them out. the power of the human body to heal itself once the factors that are causing insult are removed is phenomenal! any time we can bring healing and/or a better quality of life (even during active dying) to a patient without the insults and side effects common to pharmacological/radiological it is my position that this avenue should be taken.

    there's not as much money in it, but there's way more personal satisfaction and benefit to the patient.
    Last edited by monogod; 01-21-2013 at 11:38 PM.
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  51. #551
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    I will use your words here because they never held more true than now.


    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    wow... i ask a simple yes or no question and get the above blathering, obfuscation, and avoidance in response.

    let's try once more...



    yes or no?
    So yes, let's try this once more.

    Have you ever lied?
    Have you ever cheated?
    Did you always show true remorse for those actions?
    Are there any lies or cheats that you have never fessed up to?

    yes or no?

  52. #552
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    Please give it a rest KJ!
    It's all Here. Now.

  53. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    thanks for the intelligent comments and discussion, rocker. this is a topic very near and dear to me as one of my life goals is to start a health and wellness retreat to give people alternatives to western medicine.

    i couldn't agree more with the last sentence in your post, but don't get me wrong bro -- i do think conventional western medicine has its place. on that i agree with you totally as well. same with pharmacology. however, imho pharmacology and surgery are used too often when holistic methods would better serve the patient.

    when someone's triglycerides are high it's not because they have a shortage of Lipitor in their system, it's because of their diet/lifestyle. so why is Lipitor the general long term "solution"? why not treat the CAUSE of the problem instead of merely addressing the symptoms of it? this is my main point.

    i've worked on post CABG (coronary artery bypass graft) units and they simply do not teach patients how to alter their lifestyles post CABG. the patient is set up for failure because rather than being educated on what clogged their arteries in the first place they are cut open, patched up, and sent home only to continue to diet/lifestyle that lead to the occlusions in the first place. why cut and implement long term pharmacological approaches when the patient could well have enjoyed complete reversal and unblockage solely by a commitment to lifestyle change?

    are some meds a good idea during implementation of this new paradigm? especially thinners/anti-coagulants? certainly. but they should be used as stabilization methods only rather than the long term solution. they should be used only to assist in holistic measures rather than seen as the cure.

    pharmacological measures in general should be used for imminent interventions only and weened off asap instead of being used as a long term crutch and/or bandaid. the amount of drugs we give in hospitals is absolutely astounding! it's not uncommon to have a patient on 10-15 routines and another 10-15 prn meds. pain meds are one thing, but non-pain related meds are quite another.

    if you haven't seen the vids i mentioned previously check them out. the power of the human body to heal itself once the factors that are causing insult are removed is phenomenal! any time we can bring healing and/or a better quality of life (even during active dying) to a patient without the insults and side effects common to pharmacological/radiological it is my position that this avenue should be taken.

    there's not as much money in it, but there's way more personal satisfaction and benefit to the patient.
    You are completely correct in all of that. I wish you the best of success with your project because it is sorely needed. If we could only break from the cycle of unnecessary and worthless 'care' the health system would be so much better off. THAT is where efforts need to be focused to bring overall costs down, and make 'care' something that actually makes well!

    "From small acorns..."
    It's all Here. Now.

  54. #554
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    on a lighter note, this from australia.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The mother of all apology speeches  (lance mega thread)-304926_10151202727121006_1020808180_n.jpg  


  55. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    i would not even say it the way you said it - like you are proud of "your boys" for outcheating every one else. i guess you could say "your boys" are the best cheaters too.
    How else can I say it, nearly everyone cheats and most are celbrated for it or it is laughed off, and no, IM not a big fan of cheating but with the pressure from big money to do "anything it takes to win" I really am not surprised.
    I also do not feel it Legitimate considering the history of this sport, or any sport for that matter to go back a few years to strip anyone of a title. Who knows what drugs were being taken before there were even our current obvious moderatly effective at best testing procedures.
    Home town favorites are nothing new and of course Americans are not very well liked world wide anyhow.
    i also would not brag about american wins at the tour. the win percentage is ridiculously skewed against americans...
    Lance honestly put cycling on the map here in the states, and since he is only the second person to win seven consecutive titles well

    other than that - how is life Blurr? still generally pissed at the government?
    just sitting around waiting for the next internment camp to pop up, hows life on your end?

  56. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr View Post
    Americans are not very well liked world wide anyhow.
    Surely you jest?

  57. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr View Post
    How else can I say it, nearly everyone cheats and most are celbrated for it or it is laughed off, and no, IM not a big fan of cheating but with the pressure from big money to do "anything it takes to win" I really am not surprised.
    I also do not feel it Legitimate considering the history of this sport, or any sport for that matter to go back a few years to strip anyone of a title. Who knows what drugs were being taken before there were even our current obvious moderatly effective at best testing procedures.
    Home town favorites are nothing new and of course Americans are not very well liked world wide anyhow.
    Lance honestly put cycling on the map here in the states, and since he is only the second person to win seven consecutive titles well



    just sitting around waiting for the next internment camp to pop up, hows life on your end?
    Justification to ban all forms of organized/professional sports.

    You'll need to do it for fun .... 'cause we ain't pay'in ya no more

  58. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    Justification to ban all forms of organized/professional sports.

    You'll need to do it for fun .... 'cause we ain't pay'in ya no more
    Fine by me, sports figures are grossly over paid to say the least, especially when you consider the multi million dollar contracts they get while Nike has sweat shops, that is the real crime here, yet nobody seems to give a **** unless their favorite athelete is winning, wuuuppeeee

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    Careful, Blurr ... You'll earn a negative REP from one of the butt hurt people ... "Just Cuz"

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  61. #561
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    Don't care. And that's no lie.
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  62. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy View Post
    Don't care. And that's no lie.
    look man, if you don't care, you don't have to read it.

  63. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    look man, if you don't care, you don't have to read it.
    Sounds good to me. You all continue with your Lance Hatefest, hope you all feel better spewing your hatred.
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  64. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy View Post
    Sounds good to me. You all continue with your Lance Hatefest, hope you all feel better spewing your hatred.
    okay, thanks.

    i think Lance is a bad person for lying about his doping and stomping on anyone who would question him about doping... he is almost as bad as Stalin.

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  65. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy View Post
    Sounds good to me. You all continue with your Lance Hatefest, hope you all feel better spewing your hatred.
    posting a link with a news story is not "spewing hatred".

    i don't "hate" lance.

    i'm just very disappointed and sad that it's come to this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Can you say "statute of limitations"? Good...

    As an attorney, the dude reeked of lying. He was evasive, he squirmed, he refused to answer questions. You knew he was lying without having proof of it.

    I still don't think this means he is worse than Hitler, Stalin, the Hillside Strangler, and the waterlogged corpse of Bin Laden, but he sure needs to trade in his hero card.
    He's only gonna get out of one case via statute of limitations.

    Lance Armstrong Lied To Oprah, Is Being Sued By People Who Bought His Book, And Refuses To Talk To The USADA

    People are even going after him over his book.

    The article has one thing right ... It will be a few years before he has to sign bike locks.

  67. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    okay, thanks.

    i think Lance is a bad person for lying about his doping and stomping on anyone who would question him about doping... he is almost as bad as Stalin.


    In his past life he was a Direct Adviser to Stalin during the 1932 Famine in Ukraine

  68. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr View Post
    In his past life he was a Direct Adviser to Stalin during the 1932 Famine in Ukraine
    Yep. That is when my grandma and grandpa were chased out of Ukraine, settled in south Central Europe and started making babies.
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  69. #569
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    this thread is hilarious. y'all trippin

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    Outside Article on LiveStrong

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeridesabike View Post
    Livestrong contributes almost nothing to actual cancer research. Interesting article in Outside a while back:

    Lance Armstrong and Livestrong | Lance Armstrong | OutsideOnline.com
    This was an excellent article, very well researched, enlightening to me.
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    Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!
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  72. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stugotz View Post
    Excellent rework of the original dribble..
    I mean Lance not Radiohead's work.

  73. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stugotz View Post
    Worth watching. Only 1:30 long. Funny, almost ironic.
    "Head injuries are pretty high-consequence" - AndrwSwitch

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    I am astonished at how much more interested I'd be in the sport if I believed, without a doubt, all were clean. We love sports because we see somebody doing something we enjoy doing, but doing it at a level that is fantasy for us. But, ironically, when they take PEDs, the illusion they are real people doing extraordinary things (what our fantasy is based on) disintegrates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stugotz View Post
    I don't belong here

  76. #576
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    Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!
    German Engineering in Da Haus, Ja!

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    Quote Originally Posted by On the Rocks View Post
    I am astonished at how much sports disintegrates.
    There... feexed it..


    Hey Miraculous... Go Raiders ! .
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  78. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stugotz View Post
    [URL="http://youtu.be/1SUKZD6eqgo"] Lance's original interview that DIDN"T air because the producers thought Lance was S-T-R-E-A-C-H-I-N-G the truth
    .. I did not see that ending coming
    Hey Miraculous... Go Raiders ! .
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  79. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by On the Rocks View Post
    We love sports because we see somebody doing something we enjoy doing, but doing it at a level that is fantasy for us.
    That's the problem IMO. We idolize and sports have become more about "entertainment" than going out and having fun, experiencing endorphins, being competitive, etc. It's more about some 5'9" 230lb guy having a bbq and watching TV while consuming mass amounts of chicken wings, beer, and potato chips. It's the opposite of sports.

    I rock climb. I don't sit there and watch people on TV all day, or rent DVDs of rock climbing, or anything to that extent. If I see something on TV about climbing, I might watch, but I don't care "who is who" in rock climbing, just like I don't care who is winning a tour de france, a mountain bike race, or whatever. It doesn't affect me. I don't care what sports team wins whatever game in whatever city. I like actually DOING these things. That's where my enjoyment comes from. Once this becomes more about entertainment and socializing (socializing is great as long as it's still getting out there and experiencing the "sport"), it goes downhill quickly from there.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  80. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    That's the problem IMO. We idolize and sports have become more about "entertainment" than going out and having fun, experiencing endorphins, being competitive, etc. It's more about some 5'9" 230lb guy having a bbq and watching TV while consuming mass amounts of chicken wings, beer, and potato chips. It's the opposite of sports.

    I rock climb. I don't sit there and watch people on TV all day, or rent DVDs of rock climbing, or anything to that extent. If I see something on TV about climbing, I might watch, but I don't care "who is who" in rock climbing, just like I don't care who is winning a tour de france, a mountain bike race, or whatever. It doesn't affect me. I don't care what sports team wins whatever game in whatever city. I like actually DOING these things. That's where my enjoyment comes from. Once this becomes more about entertainment and socializing (socializing is great as long as it's still getting out there and experiencing the "sport"), it goes downhill quickly from there.
    +1
    I like going downhill quickly!
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  81. #581
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    i LIKE watching the very best basketball, football and baseball players do what they do. (i.e., NBA, NFL, MLB) the last minute and a half of a close game can be quite entertaining. i don't have a problem with what they're getting paid, either--given the fact that the team owners are already rich beyond the comprehension of most people posting in this thread.

    however, i'm not a fanatic. i'd rather be out riding my bike on a lovely saturday or sunday...or a weekday evening after work.

    that doesn't mean i'm going to look down on the five foot nine two hundred and thirty pound chicken wing eating guy who loves to have his friends over for even more chicken wings on game day. that's his choice.

    cameleon, i'll bet there's no shortage of downhill aficionados who spend hours watching pro downhillers on you tube.

    to each their own, i say...unless you're cheating, lying about it and ruining other people's lives and careers in the process.

  82. #582
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    USPS Announces Plan Towards Financial Recovery: Lance Armstrong sued by U.S. for post office sponsorship funds - CNN.com
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  83. #583
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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    USPS Announces Plan Towards Financial Recovery: Lance Armstrong sued by U.S. for post office sponsorship funds - CNN.com
    Fiddy million?
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