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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    right now - dope is illegal. it will never be made legal and free for all.
    Riding above 15mph in local parks is illegal. Yes, even on a wide open fireroad.

    There are hundreds of substances on the banned list for athletes that are perfectly legal, useful and not dangerous.

    Heck, what is illegal about filling yourself up with your own frigging blood?

    What Lance violated are the rules of the game. And they could not even catch him properly in all those years. Excuse me for not giving a damn about some silly games.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    they could not even catch him properly in all those years
    except for all the times during those years when they did catch him with dirty tests. you know, like the time he tested dirty and bribed the UCI to make it go away?
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Word.

    Spectator sports are no fun.
    Amen


    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure View Post
    Lance, if you're out there, come to Colorado. Its legal here now, we don't care. You can sell off what you have left to pay for any of your legal crap. Hit me up, I'll buy you a beer. Dopers are all over the place around here... darn weed is everywhere!
    Word!

    Other than a little alky-hol I don't do any other drugs (legal or illegal).
    That being said, there are a lot of things that are illegal to do to your own body that should not be illegal. Many are less harmful than the alcohol I drink.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post

    There are hundreds of substances on the banned list for athletes that are perfectly legal, useful and not dangerous.

    Heck, what is illegal about filling yourself up with your own frigging blood?

    What Lance violated are the rules of the game. And they could not even catch him properly in all those years. Excuse me for not giving a damn about some silly games.
    Amen to that brotha!

    Seriously, way too many people seem to be taking this way to seriously even though it has absolutely no effect on their life other than the effect they are letting it have.

    If you were in the TDF and not doping then maybe you deserve an apology even though if Lance was not doping, you sill would not have beaten him.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    If you were in the TDF and not doping then maybe you deserve an apology even though if Lance was not doping, you sill would not have beaten him.
    remind us again how many tours LA won (or for that matter even finished) before he started doping?
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    remind us again how many tours LA won (or for that matter even finished) before he started doping?
    Remind us, who was on a major tour podium in the last fifteen years and definitely, absolutely did not dope and would stood up for targeted non-analytical scrutiny like USADA's?

    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Seriously, way too many people seem to be taking this way to seriously even though it has absolutely no effect on their life other than the effect they are letting it have.
    I listen to radio on my way to work - it is flooded with ads for testosterone prescriptions for "feeling tired" and "natural effects of male aging".

    I bet a whole lot of those commercial customers are seething with righteous rage against "dopers".

  6. #106
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    ^^^^ Amen on both

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued
    If you were in the TDF and not doping then maybe you deserve an apology even though if Lance was not doping, you sill would not have beaten him.
    Quote Originally Posted by monogod
    remind us again how many tours LA won (or for that matter even finished) before he started doping?
    Quote Originally Posted by Axe
    Remind us, who was on a major tour podium in the last fifteen years and definitely, absolutely did not dope and would stood up for targeted non-analytical scrutiny like USADA's?
    total red herring since my position is not that everyone on the podium in the last 15 years other than lance was clean.

    my request to Axe was made in response to his claim that lance was a podium level TDF racer before he started doping when in fact he was nothing but a pack filler who never even finished.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Remind us, who was on a major tour podium in the last fifteen years and definitely, absolutely did not dope and would stood up for targeted non-analytical scrutiny like USADA's?



    I listen to radio on my way to work - it is flooded with ads for testosterone prescriptions for "feeling tired" and "natural effects of male aging".

    I bet a whole lot of those commercial customers are seething with righteous rage against "dopers".
    How about Bradley Wiggins? Or Chris Froome?

    Axe - if someone is using testosterone supplement to feel less tired or just to provide his partner with some excitement - is a different ball game compared with someone who uses it to gain competitive advantage over his opponents - despite it is a banned performance drug.

    Really - what are you trying to do? Defend Lance because everyone else doped?

    C'mon man. Sure, if everyone else doped - get them all as well. And they did, for the most part. No one was exempt. How was this "targeted" witch hunt? Most everyone else was caught and stripped off their medals. Lance was one of the last...

    I can't believe anyone can defend Lance... for any reason...
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Riding above 15mph in local parks is illegal. Yes, even on a wide open fireroad.

    There are hundreds of substances on the banned list for athletes that are perfectly legal, useful and not dangerous.

    Heck, what is illegal about filling yourself up with your own frigging blood?

    What Lance violated are the rules of the game. And they could not even catch him properly in all those years. Excuse me for not giving a damn about some silly games.
    Sorry man, your statement is pretty oblivious in my opinion. "They could not even catch him properly"???? What the hell does that mean? They caught him improperly?

    What is illegal about filling yourself up with your own blood? Geez...

    It is illegal man, as defined by those that know what they are doing and accepted by Lance when he obtained his racing license through USA cycling. If he didn't like this rule - he should not have accepted it. But he accepted it and then violated it hoping that he would not get caught... Well, he got caught. Yep, he violated rules of the game. Penalty is pretty obvious.
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    total red herring since my position is not that everyone on the podium in the last 15 years other than lance was clean.

    my request to Axe was made in response to his claim that lance was a podium level TDF racer before he started doping when in fact he was nothing but a pack filler who never even finished.
    Total red herring since Axe's position was not........awe fvck it, we could go round and round with this one.

    Ok, assuming Lance was doping (which he most likely was yet we still have no real proof so we will assume he was)

    If you were clean but not even on the podium for several years because all the guys that were on the podium were on doped up and the only way you could beat them and make a name for yourself was to play the same game, would you

    a) Dope the fvck up and hope not to get caught
    b) Stay clean and just fade away like all the others that stayed clean.


    Don't hate the player, hate the game.

    Don't be pissed at Lance, he obviously tried to do it clean but since the guys in charge couldn't catch the other dopers it forced his hand.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Total red herring since Axe's position was not........awe fvck it, we could go round and round with this one.

    Ok, assuming Lance was doping (which he most likely was yet we still have no real proof so we will assume he was)

    If you were clean but not even on the podium for several years because all the guys that were on the podium were on doped up and the only way you could beat them and make a name for yourself was to play the same game, would you

    a) Dope the fvck up and hope not to get caught
    b) Stay clean and just fade away like all the others that stayed clean.


    Don't hate the player, hate the game.

    Don't be pissed at Lance, he obviously tried to do it clean but since the guys in charge couldn't catch the other dopers it forced his hand.
    i am not pissed at Lance...
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    Sorry man, your statement is pretty oblivious in my opinion. "They could not even catch him properly"???? What the hell does that mean? They caught him improperly?
    I do not consider this targeted investigation an epitome of justice. There were no analytical positives (which I consider the proper way to catch, like with Contador or Landis), and this procedure is not up to the standards of what is accepted in a real court, which I would consider a proper way.

    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    It is illegal man, as defined by those that know what they are doing and accepted by Lance when he obtained his racing license through USA cycling. If he didn't like this rule - he should not have accepted it. But he accepted it and then violated it hoping that he would not get caught... Well, he got caught. Yep, he violated rules of the game. Penalty is pretty obvious.
    USADA is private organization enforcing private contracts. It has nothing to do with law as far as "legality" of those substances. Some rules prohibit caffeine or alcohol in competition. It is a private contract between private parties. I do not care about them.

    The point is, rules of a silly game do not elevate to wrist wringing about destroyed morals and hefty criminal offense terms used.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    my request to Axe was made in response to his claim that lance was a podium level TDF racer before he started doping when in fact he was nothing but a pack filler who never even finished.
    So who won before that? Riis? Ullrich? Pantani? LOL.

    Admitted and caught doping rules violators.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Some rules prohibit caffeine
    Good point, I forgot that caffeine could be considered a performance enhancing drug.

    I better stop drinking coffee if I don't want to be considered a cheat when I bike.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    So who won before that? Riis? Ullrich? Pantani? LOL.

    Admitted and caught doping rules violators.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    I do not consider this targeted investigation an epitome of justice. There where no analytical positives (which I consider the proper way to catch, like with Contador or Landis), and this procedure is not up to the standards of what is accepted in a real court, which I would consider a proper way.
    you do know he tested positive twice , don't you. both times it was swept under the carpet and a "contribution" to the tune of $100,000 went to UCI. mafia and drug cartels are subject to targeted investigations. what's the difference... dude, he is so guilty - based on all the evidence and eye witnesses - your denial is weird, for the lack of better word...



    USADA is private organization enforcing private contracts. It has nothing to do with law as far as "legality" of those substances. Some rules prohibit caffeine or alcohol in competition. It is a private contract between private parties. I do not care about them.
    huh? seriously? USADA is enforcing the same rules as WADA who governs the Olympics and all other major competitions. what do you mean "private"? they are just enforcing rules that Lance and all other athletes ACCEPTED voluntarily when they got their licenses. whether you care or not doesn't matter. Lance ACCEPTED these rules and acknowledged their potential consequences. heck, some geriatrics were caught and banned after tested positive in a friggin' Grand Fondo type of race... it comes with the license (same as Lance) that they took. why is this so hard to accept?

    The point is, rules of a silly game do not elevate to wrist wringing about destroyed morals and hefty criminal offense terms used.
    really? if it was just for doping - i'd agree with you.
    but for all destroyed careers of those that stood up to him and all the millions of dollars that he won in lawsuits - he deserves everything he is called...
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Good point, I forgot that caffeine could be considered a performance enhancing drug.

    I better stop drinking coffee if I don't want to be considered a cheat when I bike.
    you are hilarious... do you read your posts before you hit "submit"?

    if you don't have UCI license or any other racing license and don't race - why would you be considered as a cheat.

    if caffeine is banned - then it is banned. if Lance accepted these rules - and then broke them - he should be penalized, no?

    no one forced him to accept "silly" rules. he accepted them voluntarily.
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  18. #118
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    Honestly guys, can we move away from the totally ridiculous comparisons to coffee, weed, LSD etc to serious performance enhancing drugs like EPO, really its boarderlining on the totally ridiculous....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    you are hilarious... do you read your posts before you hit "submit"?

    if you don't have UCI license or any other racing license and don't race - why would you be considered as a cheat.

    if caffeine is banned - then it is banned. if Lance accepted these rules - and then broke them - he should be penalized, no?

    no one forced him to accept "silly" rules. he accepted them voluntarily.
    Yes I do, but people thinking Lance owes everyone an apology isn't ridiculous, it is just plain stupid.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Yes I do, but people thinking Lance owes everyone an apology isn't ridiculous, it is just plain stupid.
    i personally do not care if he apologizes or not... he is beyond the point of no return with the damage that he's done to himself. no apology can change anything...

    but you are questioning his guilt - and that is what i am debating with you... forget the apology. it is irrelevant...
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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Yes I do, but people thinking Lance owes everyone an apology isn't ridiculous, it is just plain stupid.
    Wrong again, people want him to confess, not apoligize, why the hell would we want an apology.
    The majority of us here don't give a hoot about him doping, there is a small percentage that do, but that's not what all the LA threads are about.
    Have you ever stopped to ask your self why there are no other threads about the other doped riders?
    It's because we don't give a shyte, but what we do give a shyte about is how he lied, decieved, bulled etc etc etc etc, thats why we want to see him taken down, no one will settle for anything less.

  22. #122
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    No, I am questioning the so called proof of his guilt.

    I actually believe he is guilty but laugh at all the people that was on his junk (even though he was missing half of it) then act all shocked, surprised and betrayed as soon as accusations start flying. I also understand why he would do it considering all the top TDF riders probably were and the only chance a man would have to win would be to do it.

    If I was to direct my anger (if I had any), it would be at the governing boards of the TDF for allowing this to happen years before LA won and probably every year after his last win.

    I guarantee we can just go ahead and wipe every title off the books from 1999 to present and probably several years before that. However, we still ignore that fact.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post

    I guarantee we can just go ahead and wipe every title off the books from 1999 to present and probably several years before that. However, we still ignore that fact.
    Dude - that is exactly what happened. Are you really engaging in discussion without knowing even the basics of this case???

    Lance was one of the last cheats that finally got caught.

    You can run, but you can not hide forever.
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  24. #124
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    you do know he tested positive twice , don't you.
    That is not proven. You can allege and believe anything, but under the system in place he was not caught with an analytical. It did not happen. You know that, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    huh? seriously? USADA is enforcing the same rules as WADA who governs the Olympics and all other major competitions. what do you mean "private"? they are just enforcing rules that Lance and all other athletes ACCEPTED voluntarily when they got their licenses. whether you care or not doesn't matter. Lance ACCEPTED these rules and acknowledged their potential consequences. heck, some geriatrics were caught and banned after tested positive in a friggin' Grand Fondo type of race... it comes with the license (same as Lance) that they took. why is this so hard to accept?
    Yes, he did. But that does not make those rules a matter of criminal law, and enforcement of those rule are not in the realm of judicial system.

    It is a private contract. Exactly that. USADA is a private organization with a contract. Subject to arbitration. Which is indeed a kangaroo court of sorts.

    Whatever. Unsubscribing. Arguing with you haters is pointless.

  25. #125
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    So, lets just wipe the TDF off the books from beginning to end because now we all agree the whole series is a farce where only the best cheater won. That being said, we also agree that from 1999-2005 LA was the best cheater.

    LIke I have said before, C'mon he still beat all the other cheaters.

    From now on, lets call it the TDC or the Tour de Cheaters.

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