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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camaleon View Post
    I just want to ask.
    Do you guys really believe that his opponents were clean?
    But Lance must have cheated more, thats why he won, hell, any of us could with the TDF if we doped, right?

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    But Lance must have cheated more, thats why he won, hell, any of us could with the TDF if we doped, right?
    He did it better that's for sure!
    That still make him the best in my book.
    I agree 100% with you, all that you need to do to win the TDF several times is to dope.
    Why do you think there's a war on dope?
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camaleon View Post
    I just want to ask.
    Do you guys really believe that his opponents were clean?
    That's actually the reason that the UCI has said they're just going to leave the race winner position blank instead of moving everyone up a spot should they decide to strip Lance of his titles based on the USADA evidence, because every single other person on the podium in all of those years has also been involved in doping allegations.

    Pretty sad state of affairs for road cycling (not like MTB has been squeaky clean over that same time period). Assuming that he did dope, if everyone else was doping too, did he still win? Or in that case, with no eligible riders, did the race just not actually take place?
    "Great things are not accomplished by those who yield to trends and fads and popular opinion."-Jack Kerouac

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camaleon View Post
    Why do you think there's a war on dope?




    To rid the world of dopes?

  5. #30
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    wait, Lance was doping???

    my life = ruined.
    my reality = shattered.

    What next????? NFL players on steroids?? WWF wrestling not real??

    Raise your hand if you've never cheated, or taken a short cut to tilt the odds in your favor?

    I'm not advocating that he get to keep the titles (frankly I don't care), but this is getting as bad as Roger Clemens... A CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATION????? Our nation is in shambles (relatively) and we're more concerned with who's Snookie's babies daddy, or which athlete cheated.

    Am I the only one who sees a serious disconnect here?
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadie scum View Post
    To rid the world of dopes?
    whoa!

    dope is an excellent prepping compound for assembling pipes
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    whoa!

    dope is an excellent prepping compound for assembling pipes
    and then using in pipes.................. or so I learn from TV shows..
    Not what you think.

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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Yeah so Lance used his celebrity to promote Livestrong and in turn hid behind Livestrong. I get it. And how they have helped me and other cancer survivors does not excuse anything Lance has done. But big picture, here. Are you saying that cheating and being a lying aggressive @$$ by one guy outweighs the good accomplished by the organization? The previous poster and that Outside article were not even comparing that. They are saying that Livestrong does not support research and implying therefore the charity hides money and spends it suspiciously and is an overall shady organization.
    Nate,

    i was not talking about Livestrong. I was talking about LA.

    here is another quote from the same article. it strikingly applies to our discussion around here - does it not?

    "Others noticed an annoying tendency: whenever questions about doping arose, Armstrong and his supporters changed the subject to his cancer work, a tactic that the bicycling website NY Velocity called “raising the cancer shield.” After the 60 Minutes segment on Armstrong aired in May—complete with damning claims from ex-teammate Tyler Hamilton that Armstrong had cheated—Armstrong’s lawyers denied the allegations and quickly invoked Livestrong in his defense. In their one legal brief to date, they blasted the feds over alleged leaks to 60 Minutes that, they said, were intended to legitimize “the government’s investigation of a national hero, best known for his role in the fight against cancer.”

    The situation is FAR more complicated than that. Lance is a very complicated person and this is a complicated situation.
    i don't see it complicated at all. justice will happen to Lance - the way it is destined to happen. whether he is complicated or not - has nothing to do with the fact that he deceived the world - and he really did not have to. whether he is complicated or not will not affect the outcome of his misjudged decision.

    i hope Livestrong lives without him. for the sake of all of us.

  9. #34
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    just the same though ^^^ why should we really give a fcuk!

    WHY?

    All I hear is rhetoric and BS

    When it comes down to it, it's 'entertainment'

    Sure Footbally players love playing football, but would they if no one was there to watch them?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  10. #35
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    oskolo, Livestrong was brought into it a long time ago, and they are tied to this by Lance. The quote you used really doesn't support your case about it not being about Livestrong, either.

    ...an organization that appears to do good but also enriches a fraudster.”
    as far as i am concerned - that is the summary of Livestrong issue and how LA used it to project his public image as well as a powerful protection shield behind which he ran a successful cheating operation...
    That bolded text implicates Livestrong in NOT helping cancer survivors. Which is absolutely not the case and is what I was specifically pointing out. It is an idea that as far as I can tell was created by Outside Magazine because everyone who likes to cite the tidbit that "Livestrong does not fund research" always throws out that link. The organization definitely DOES good things. It does help people. The way Lance used it is largely irrelevant now because Lance has been outed and his shield won't work anymore because he is no longer running the organization.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    it is just a silly bicycle race.
    why should anyone really care
    Couldn't agree more!! ( i would give you a positive rep but i can't[lol])... i don't even know why the GOV gets involved with issues such as this. one of many wastes of our tax payers money
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  12. #37
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    a radio sports guy said one day ( in reference to MLB/Roger Clemens) if all of the players which most are doping and only 1 or 2 are actually doing anything with it then how is it cheating? " ... personally the only sport i support a drug free program is nascar. because if i was driving 500miles at 200mph with others cars within inches i sure as heck wouldn't when them stoned out of their minds
    Last edited by shwinn8; 10-20-2012 at 09:01 PM.
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    oskolo, Livestrong was brought into it a long time ago, and they are tied to this by Lance. The quote you used really doesn't support your case about it not being about Livestrong, either.
    i thought you were responding to my post, not all posts on this topic. i know what i think about Livestrong and it is different from what you are trying to tell me - that i think. the quote that i posted describes Livestrong as LA's shield - and it was used widely around here as well. even by you. you do acknowledge that LA is a cheater BUT... and then we go with Livestrong etc...

    That was exactly the point of the quote i posted. and you proved it right... not that there is anything wrong with what you did... i understand where you are coming from...



    It is an idea that as far as I can tell was created by Outside Magazine because everyone who likes to cite the tidbit that "Livestrong does not fund research" always throws out that link.........

    The organization definitely DOES good things. It does help people. The way Lance used it is largely irrelevant now because Lance has been outed and his shield won't work anymore because he is no longer running the organization.
    Outside Magazine article states:

    "An Associated Press story from August 2010 described Livestrong as “one of the top 10 groups funding cancer research in the United States.” The comments section of any article about Armstrong will inevitably include messages like this one from ESPN.com: “keep raising millions for cancer research lance, and ignore the haters.” At one point, the foundation brought in a PR consultant to try and clarify the messaging, but Armstrong himself says there’s only so much they can do. “We can’t control what everybody says they’re wearing the bracelets for,” he told me.

    At the same time, though, Armstrong and his supporters help perpetuate the notion that they are, in fact, helping battle cancer in the lab. “I am here to fight this disease,” he angrily told journalist Paul Kimmage at a press conference held during his 2009 comeback."

    Livestrong helps a good cause. I don't dispute that. Though the percentage of what it contributes to helping cancer survivors should be higher.

    i think you are smart enough to know what my point is.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by shwinn8 View Post
    a radio sports guy said one day ( in reference to MBL/Roger Clemens) if all of the players which most are doping and only 1 or 2 are actually doing anything with it then how is it cheating? " ... personally the only sport i support a drug free program is nascar. because if i was driving 500miles at 200mph with others cars within inches i sure as heck wouldn't when them stoned out of their minds
    Nice NASCAR reference

    But realistically, being 'stoned' or drunk during the race is a non issue - but who was that guy high on acid that killed-it in a F1, Kart? race? - shoot - now I gotta google the intertoobs

    **OK it wasn't racing - it was baseball
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    Honestly... ahh I give up

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    but who was that guy high on acid that killed-it in a F1, Kart? race? - shoot - now I gotta google the intertoobs
    Acid isn't considered a performance enhancing drug though, is it?

    Searching around I keep finding hits like,

    which is a good LSD for road racing?
    But they are talking about limited slip differentials....

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    Acid isn't considered a performance enhancing drug though, is it?

    ...
    is pot?

    Ross Rebagliati - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    and..
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    it is just a silly bicycle race.
    why should anyone really care
    This.

    I've never idolized or really cared about any "professional" sports. The closest I came I guess was with ski racing, but I was much more happy just out there skiing by myself and encountering and overcoming my own challenges. Lots of people seem to feed upon watching other people overcome challenges. They are sport-spectator fans. They care about what some "team" (of players from all over with no geographic loyalty) does in some random location. They'd rather sit and watch people driving around a circle than go out and having some fun. They'd rather "keep up to date" on all the drama of sports players and their tribulations.

    I'm not saying that it's wrong or not fun to watch a game every once and a while, but for some people, being a spectator IS their sport. They are so far into it that it completely wrecks their world when something like this happens, or they learn about WWF, or that you really can't make it to the highest levels in some sports due to genetics.

    Some of us just don't care. We only had a passing interest in the first place about the TDF or road racing. The world will move on. The only true hero is you, because YOU get out there and ride, YOU do better than your last ride, YOU do something that you thought wasn't possible. It doesn't matter what OTHER people think, and if you've boxed yourself into a corner where you base so much of your world perception on what other people think and do, you'll end up severely disappointed when the folly of man is shown. I don't think LA has to do or say anything for anyone at this point. You should be able to just move on, and hopefully he can do, and do something better. There is nothing positive or productive doing anything otherwise...
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    that this will happen inevitably and regardless of his actions...

    it'd be nice if he owned to it. it would allow most of us to move on...
    It will do nothing to improve road cycling and racing's North American image problem.

  19. #44
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    He won't own up to anything. Dopers suck.

  20. #45
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    And oh yeah; just make an "unlimited class", where you dope and shoot up (and your heart explodes) all you want. When a rider in the "clean"-class is found to be doping, he automatically moves to the "unlimited" class, where his times are probably not as good as the totally-doped-out racers.

    Darwin would take care of the ones shooting up most likely (unless there were benefits that actually did not detract from life in any way).

    Problem solved.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    is pot?
    I don't think either of them are in the typical sense of "performance enhancing".

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    And oh yeah; just make an "unlimited class", where you dope and shoot up (and your heart explodes) all you want. When a rider in the "clean"-class is found to be doping, he automatically moves to the "unlimited" class, where his times are probably not as good as the totally-doped-out racers.

    Darwin would take care of the ones shooting up most likely (unless there were benefits that actually did not detract from life in any way).

    Problem solved.
    That is PERFECT!
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  23. #48
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    I know right? It's way too good of an idea to ever happen.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackbombay View Post
    I don't think either of them are in the typical sense of "performance enhancing".
    ok - testosterone?
    how about O2?
    red blood cells?
    Cortisone, Cortisol?

    those should be banned - those who say yes should be the 1st to apply to the ban
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    ok - testosterone?
    how about O2?
    red blood cells?
    Cortisone, Cortisol?

    those should be banned...
    Yes, absolutely, those change your muscles and change your blood so there is a "physical advantage", where I assume that weed and LSD just give you a mental advantage, but not in all cases, it could make you think you are an orange too like happened to Syd barrett!

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