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  1. #1
    old skool newbie
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    No good law banning use of baby carriers?

    I am not as big of a poster as a lurker, but thought this would boil some peoples bottoms and the rants here can be pretty interesting...

    bill proposed to stop the use of baby carriers on public roads:
    http://www.washingtonvotes.org/Legis....aspx?ID=42267

    My opinions are probably similar to yours, but lets hear yours (and let them hear yours)

  2. #2
    Misfit Psycles
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    interesting.
    too big for the sidewalk and too dangerous for the road is the argument? let's face it bikes are a big enough annoyance on the roads...the gp doesn't care if a cyclist gets hit, hurt a few kids and the status quo might have to change!

    what about drafting some legislation that forces towns cities to provide a cycling lane? probably better cents (spent) all round.
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  3. #3
    bob
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    I don't like them.

    I don't like baby carriers. I think they put a small child or baby at too much risk. But, that's just my opinion and I will not tell other parents what to do with their kids. Nor would I support any legislation that would do the same.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob
    I don't like baby carriers. I think they put a small child or baby at too much risk. But, that's just my opinion and I will not tell other parents what to do with their kids. Nor would I support any legislation that would do the same.
    I don't like them either, on the road - they're just too low and hard to see for me to feel comfortable dragging my kid along, even with the silly little orange flag.

    There isn't any real alternative, though. Bike-mounted baby seats are deathtraps, even with helmets used (and many are designed without taking helmets into account, so they're uncomfortable even if you try to be responsible about it).

  5. #5
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    I only operate my kid trailer on public bike paths. I have ridden from my house to the path on residential streets in the past and sidewalks and it always made me uncomfortable. I don't know if we need another law to protect us from ourselves though.

  6. #6
    I always bleed like this.
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    My son loves to ride in the burley, but the few times I have had him on the road were enough for me. I will only take him on the road in VERY residential areas where we live, straight streets with no blind turns, 25mph speed limits and only in good light.
    Anywhere else and I find a way to go off the road, often the sidewalks. Truth is, not too many people use them anymore so don't bother flaming me for not supporting the team, my kid is more important.
    This law avoids the problem, drivers not paying attention, and instead attempts to make things safer indirectly by giving inattentive drivers fewer things and people to hit.
    Well, I guess I'll get more time one the trail.

  7. #7
    Lawyer Time! No Comment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpdsurf
    I don't know if we need another law to protect us from ourselves though.
    Thank you!

    As for kid haulers, I have an uncle who inspired me to get into riding when I was a kid. He got so used to riding hauling his kids (too young to stay at home alone) on his solo training rides, he just kept doing it, even as they started getting bigger. Eventually, his kids patience outgrew going on dads daily 60mile training rides, and he got back on his road bike. He missed the power training of it though, so he grabbed the ancient 40lb cannondale (1985ish) mtb again hooked up the kid trailer, and loaded it with a pile of bricks. He's been riding like that for ten years. Hill country & all. The guys a pure monster. Never races, but on group rides, he takes off like a rocket as soon as it's climbing time. I think of him every time I see one of those things. Not really on topic, but I couldn't help think of that...
    Nothing left to lose, & half mad.

  8. #8
    Occidental Tourist
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    Bingo!

    Quote Originally Posted by PoorBehavior
    This law avoids the problem, drivers not paying attention, and instead attempts to make things safer indirectly by giving inattentive drivers fewer things and people to hit.
    Let's ban cars and inattentive drivers.
    Or maybe we can just ban kids.
    Better yet let's ban lawmakers and safety nazis.
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    This is just need to know information: Am i supposed to enjoy the irony or pity the sincerity?

  9. #9
    paintbucket
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    My computer won't let me read the link. Are they banning trailers or kids in trailers? Regardless, its a stupid law designed to protect cage drivers "rights" under the guise of saftey for kids and bikers.
    When the going gets weird its bedtime.

  10. #10
    Tear it all out! SuperModerator
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    Cut and paste from link

    2006 Senate Pre-filed Bill 6142 (Prohibiting the use of bicycles with baby carriers on roadways)

    Introduced by Sen. Jim Honeyford on December 7, 2005, to prohibit a person from operating a bicycle attached to an occupied baby carrier on a street or other roadway, unless the bicycle is operated within a city or town that prohibits the operation of bicycles on the sidewalk adjacent to the street or other roadway.

  11. #11
    Occidental Tourist
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigH
    Cut and paste from link
    Jim's website
    This is just need to know information: Am i supposed to enjoy the irony or pity the sincerity?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by YuriB
    Better yet let's ban lawmakers and safety nazis.
    Lawmakers have their place, but I'm with ya on the safety nazis!

  13. #13
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpdsurf
    I don't know if we need another law to protect us from ourselves though.
    We do, because personal responsibility has eroded so much. If we could somehow keep people from suing the state and others for their own mistakes, then we might be able to live with a little more freedom. People are selfish though and they take advantage of every opportunity to try and wring money out of the system.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  14. #14
    post-ride specialist
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    Without a carrier, how I'm I ever going to bring along a keg?

  15. #15
    "El Whatever"
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    You need more of these ones....
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    Check my Site

  16. #16
    Hairy man
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    Quote Originally Posted by YuriB
    Thanks Yuri, there's a handy "email" link to tell the Senator what you think.
    We all get it in the end.

  17. #17
    I <3 29ers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp2003
    You need more of these ones....


    Soooo, the engine goes in front?

    Once upon a time Mom used to put me on the rack on the back of her "cruiser" when I was too young to ride 2-wheels on my own. She didn't even use bungee-cords! Had anything happened I would have been toast. Keep in mind this was the 70's, eh?

    So, now it's come to the point where people must restrain themselves and their kids from any enjoyment in life, for sake of the irresponsible @'s that can't slow down a little and use some common sense.

    I have a better idea - why not just ban pregnancy altogether. All those stupid little kids getting in the way of everything, right? They cause stress and MUST be the reason the world is such a horrible place to live. Yeah, that's it.

    Why can't these politicians do something CONSTRUCTIVE with OUR time and money? Oh wait, that would make sense.

    Don't get me wrong - I can really understand how something like this could honestly get in the way of the flow of traffic, BUT if it was really THAT big of a problem wouldn't it make more sense to put in BIKE LANES????????

    Nah, the banning pregnancy idea is better, I guess.

    Sorry for the unusual attitude with my post, but this stuff is very upsetting to me. People need to learn.
    I ..... need ..... DIRT!!!!!

    ... and cookies.

  18. #18
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO


    Soooo, the engine goes in front?
    Enough room for a 454, baby!! And I'm not talking about a Pike!

    These things are SERIOUS singlespeed action...

    The only con of these is they occupy a lot of garage space and at least the ones used here in Mexico are workhorses with little or no technology. Somebody could make a nice business doing some of these in the USA with a little of creativity.
    Check my Site

  19. #19
    Occidental Tourist
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    Rember to be civil

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Moody
    Thanks Yuri, there's a handy "email" link to tell the Senator what you think.
    Here is what I sent,

    "Dear Sen. Honeyford,

    I do not live in your district or in Washington. I do however ride bikes on trails, MUTs and streets and on occasion with my son in his Burley trailer.
    I am an upstanding citizen in my community and strive to make my community a better place.
    I am am disturbed by your proposed bill and wonder what the imptus and intnet is.
    As near as I can tell this law avoids a percived problem - drivers not paying attention, and instead attempts to make things safer indirectly by giving inattentive drivers fewer things and people to hit.
    I hope I am wrong and I hope this pre-bill is put to bed.
    If you would be so kind I would like to hear your response.

    Regards,
    Yuri
    Phoenix, AZ"
    This is just need to know information: Am i supposed to enjoy the irony or pity the sincerity?

  20. #20
    Hairy man
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    Quote Originally Posted by YuriB
    Here is what I sent,

    "Dear Sen. Honeyford,

    I do not live in your district or in Washington. I do however ride bikes on trails, MUTs and streets and on occasion with my son in his Burley trailer.
    I am an upstanding citizen in my community and strive to make my community a better place.
    I am am disturbed by your proposed bill and wonder what the imptus and intnet is.
    As near as I can tell this law avoids a percived problem - drivers not paying attention, and instead attempts to make things safer indirectly by giving inattentive drivers fewer things and people to hit.
    I hope I am wrong and I hope this pre-bill is put to bed.
    If you would be so kind I would like to hear your response.

    Regards,
    Yuri
    Phoenix, AZ"
    Polite is key. Anything with profanity or threats probably just gets blocked or trashcanned (and investigated if it's bad enough).

    I live in Washington but not in his district (I live on the Democratic coast, not the Republican interior), so he probably still doesn't care too much, but if enough messages pile up, it'll do some good.
    We all get it in the end.

  21. #21
    I always bleed like this.
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    Everyone seems to ignore the idea of improving drivers because it is perceived as not possible. Thing is and correct me if I am wrong, but in Europe, it takes more than a week of classes and $150 to get your license. You need to spend several thousand Euro and weeks of real training and testing before you get a shot at driving. In America, there is nothing easier than getting a license. Perhaps we should make it a little more difficult.

  22. #22
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    License fees should go up

    Quote Originally Posted by PoorBehavior
    Everyone seems to ignore the idea of improving drivers because it is perceived as not possible. Thing is and correct me if I am wrong, but in Europe, it takes more than a week of classes and $150 to get your license. You need to spend several thousand Euro and weeks of real training and testing before you get a shot at driving. In America, there is nothing easier than getting a license. Perhaps we should make it a little more difficult.
    A drivers license is little more than a movie here. In Germany I think it is like $3000 for a license plus you have to take some lite EMT and fire safety classes.

    Imagine if the license fee went up 100 times. People would just crap. But, they would prolly pay more attention to the classes.

  23. #23
    Keep The Rubber Side Down
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    Jim's a tool

    This toolbox lives in a mostly rural county here in Washington state. The roads are mostly all two lane roads with wide shoulders. I know, because I've been on long road rides in that area. You get one car every 5 min, 3 cars during rush hour.

    Don't bother educating the public on how to be careful when they see cyclist on the road; just take them off the road that solves the problem.

    I don't take my son in his trailer on the street, but we do ride it on the sidewalk. I want him to explain to my 4 year old why we can't go on our rides anymore. I assure you, he'll be getting a letter from me.

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  24. #24
    post-ride specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by noslogan

    Imagine if the license fee went up 100 times. People would just crap. But, they would prolly pay more attention to the classes.

    Yes, they would crap. And then fewer poor people will drive legally, otherwise not much will change. Inattention is the problem, not driver "qualification". Soccer mom will still drive her H2 with a phone in hand, Joe 6-pack will still steer the P/U with his knee while reaching for another cold one.

    Nah. Start prosecuting drivers that hit cyclists for vehicular manslaughter, that'll get their attention.

  25. #25
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    Without knowing him or his politics, Jim looks like a nice, grandfatherly type of guy. I'm guessing this half baked idea is a result of either him or one of his constituents seeing a parent out for a ride with a kid in one of these trailers and either thinking it was flat out dangerous, or maybe even seeeing a arent actually doing something dumb.

    Giving him the benefit of doubt, lets say he actualy witnessed a parent doing something so stupid and dangerous that it ought to be criminal. If so, he could address that much more narrowly than a blanket, state-wide ban on bike trailer use.

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