• 01-09-2013
    Pedalfast
    Lance Armstrong finally to come clean?
    I just read a news release announcing that Lance has agreed to an exclusive interview with Oprah Winfrey to discuss his use of drugs. This is scheduled to air 1-17-13. I think he is going to fess up. What do you think?

    I'll try to post the link to the article.

    Lance Armstrong to Speak With Oprah Winfrey on Doping Scandal - ABC News
  • 01-09-2013
    Lenny7
    I hate it when I'm forced to watch Oprah.
  • 01-09-2013
    B-Mac
    Drazil's possibly right, but I'm not sure when he was deposed last and what the statute of limitations for perjury is.
  • 01-09-2013
    Wishful Tomcat
    Forget Oprah, Barbara Walters would get the truth out.
  • 01-09-2013
    53119
    you think off camera he'll snap one of those yellow wristbands in his eye to induce a tear for effect when the camera turns to him? I mean this is a sad sympathy/money grab for both from both.

    wtf? seriously, who at this point would watch this crap? nevermind. i know the answer to that.
  • 01-09-2013
    CS2
    From what I've heard/seen he's been working on a deal with USADA on confessing. USADA obviously promised him something in return for the public confession. Whether he get's his Tour titles back or can compete in triathalons remains to be seen.
  • 01-09-2013
    gsomtb
    The best part of this is it will be on Oprah.

    If he totally comes clean, future generations will read cycling anthologies full of stories about Merkx and his attacks, Hinnault and his tenacity, Moser and the hour record and LA's confession on Oprah, lol....
  • 01-09-2013
    Fiskare
    There have been several analysis' of the affect this would have since the story was first floated last week. The consensus seems to be that Lance would open himself to less than 20 million in paybacks and costs (so all in, and maybe as lil as 10) but no jail time (and maybe no criminal charges) as the SOL has run on almost everything. These aren't my conclusions, so I can't vouch for any of it. To me, the more interesting question is what will this do to his legacy/brand.

    And of course he might just hold fast with the 'no, no, no it wasn't me' story.
  • 01-09-2013
    53119
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Trail6 View Post
    Forget Oprah, Barbara Walters would get the truth out.

    good call, Trail. she could make the money shot happen. she makes everybody cry!
  • 01-09-2013
    elrollo
    He should confess to Howard Stern instead...lol
  • 01-09-2013
    Fiskare
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by CS2 View Post
    From what I've heard/seen he's been working on a deal with USADA on confessing. USADA obviously promised him something in return for the public confession. Whether he get's his Tour titles back or can compete in triathalons remains to be seen.

    I've never seen LA as that pragmatic. He seems more like a blood thirsty wolf than a wily old fox. He may be mellowing, or I have my head up my arse.
  • 01-09-2013
    bikeabuser
    Forget USADA ... If he confesses, he'll be paying off costs and fines from a multitude of civil court decisions that will be rendered against hm.

    I see no value in this, and I will not watch Dopra ... I'll wait for the results of the interview to appear, elsewhere.
  • 01-09-2013
    jkirkpatri
    Subscribed for the guaranteed entertainment that this thread will become after the interview is aired. :)
  • 01-09-2013
    wv_bob
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 53119 View Post
    good call, Trail. she could make the money shot happen. she makes everybody cry!

    Stand him up in front of Judge Judy and at least you'd get the pleasure of watching her brow-beat him while he stonewalls.
  • 01-09-2013
    Fix the Spade
    Clean eh? The only way that man could ever be clean inside is if he started drinking bleach.

    I'm expecting a big sob story about victimisation and character assassination with little old Lance as the victim.
    He knows that if he admits to anything he will have a couple dozen people calling lawyers to give instructions briefly described as nail that f##ker to the wall.
  • 01-09-2013
    Lenny7
    It's weird to see people get so upset over someone they don't know.
  • 01-09-2013
    ArmySlowRdr
    And I surmise that Oprah will pay every penny of it for the exclusive. And why not. Her empire is worth billions. Even more incentive for Lance if he can save not being legally convicted, can save at least one or two of his titles and eventually be allowed to compete again.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fiskare View Post
    There have been several analysis' of the affect this would have since the story was first floated last week. The consensus seems to be that Lance would open himself to less than 20 million in paybacks and costs (so all in, and maybe as lil as 10) but no jail time (and maybe no criminal charges) as the SOL has run on almost everything. These aren't my conclusions, so I can't vouch for any of it. To me, the more interesting question is what will this do to his legacy/brand.

    And of course he might just hold fast with the 'no, no, no it wasn't me' story.

  • 01-09-2013
    Highlander1
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lenny7 View Post
    I hate it when I'm forced to watch Oprah.

    No one is forcing you to watch it :)!!
  • 01-09-2013
    Spastook
    Even before all the drug crap came out. I always regarded Greg LeMond as America's greatest cyclist. Armstrong was good but much of his success (not including the drugs) was due to the teams that surrounded him. LeMond likely could have won 5 or maybe even 6 tours if he didn't have Bernard Hilnault for a team mate then suffer a collapsed lung from a hunting accident.
  • 01-09-2013
    skiahh
    Hmmm... interesting. I posted this topic a couple of days ago and got neg rep'd, then it got moved to General.
  • 01-10-2013
    Gasp4Air
    Coming "clean" would be Armstrong just telling the truth for its own sake. Fess up, period. What this is Armstrong trying to finagle something for himself. He regards the truth as something to denied, revealed or twisted to his own advantage.
  • 01-10-2013
    richwolf
    Just remember that there is not too much difference between the worst of us and the best of us.
    Did the "old time" cyclists cheat?? Probably so. Who knows how the others would have fared with our 24 hour news "cycle"??
    As far as the others who turned evidence against Armstrong, in my opinion they are no better than him. They all cheated and took away opportunities from those who even though talented, refused to cheat and would not even get a chance to compete.
    Really it matters little what he has to say. The evidence against him is out there and damaging. I admit to enjoying his run over the years. A story that good generally has it's dark side.
    Our society is set up to adore or crucify with little in between. There isn't much in life that money hasn't screwed up.
  • 01-10-2013
    Gasp4Air
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    Just remember that there is not too much difference between the worst of us and the best of us.
    Did the "old time" cyclists cheat?? Probably so. Who knows how the others would have fared with our 24 hour news "cycle"??
    As far as the others who turned evidence against Armstrong, in my opinion they are no better than him. They all cheated and took away opportunities from those who even though talented, refused to cheat and would not even get a chance to compete.
    Really it matters little what he has to say. The evidence against him is out there and damaging. I admit to enjoying his run over the years. A story that good generally has it's dark side.
    Our society is set up to adore or crucify with little in between. There isn't much in life that money hasn't screwed up.

    I agree, and don't mean to crucify him. There is greatness in what he did, and great deceit as well. The giant has feet of clay. But sadly, it seems he cheated on a grand scale for many years, and now that he's been outed, still regards the truth with contempt.
  • 01-10-2013
    AZ
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wv_bob View Post
    Stand him up in front of Judge Judy and at least you'd get the pleasure of watching her brow-beat him while he stonewalls.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/P4yqbLHYbcI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  • 01-10-2013
    June Bug
    Anybody watch the Travis Tygart interview on 60 Minutes Sports last night? I missed it.
  • 01-10-2013
    eyejustamazeyall
    shouldve gone with bryant gumble!
  • 01-10-2013
    Wishful Tomcat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by June Bug View Post
    Anybody watch the Travis Tygart interview on 60 Minutes Sports last night? I missed it.

    Had to do with this:

    Lausanne Laboratory Gave Armstrong Key To Beating EPO Test, Says Tygart | Cyclingnews.com
  • 01-10-2013
    June Bug
    That's a bombshell.
    "Most tested athlete in the world," indeed.
  • 01-11-2013
    Tone's
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wv_bob View Post
    Stand him up in front of Judge Judy and at least you'd get the pleasure of watching her brow-beat him while he stonewalls.

    Hahahaha great call, judge judy lol....

    Oprah and Lance are already great mates, it will be nothing more that a well planned load of garbage.

    Lance is a sociopath, and this Winfey interview will only prove it even more.

    Dont expect anything more than more self serving lies from lance, its the only way he knows.
  • 01-11-2013
    Tone's
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by richwolf View Post
    Just remember that there is not too much difference between the worst of us and the best of us.
    Did the "old time" cyclists cheat?? Probably so. Who knows how the others would have fared with our 24 hour news "cycle"??
    As far as the others who turned evidence against Armstrong, in my opinion they are no better than him. They all cheated and took away opportunities from those who even though talented, refused to cheat and would not even get a chance to compete.
    Really it matters little what he has to say. The evidence against him is out there and damaging. I admit to enjoying his run over the years. A story that good generally has it's dark side.
    Our society is set up to adore or crucify with little in between. There isn't much in life that money hasn't screwed up.

    Sorry wolf, i dont buy into this one iota...
  • 01-11-2013
    kjlued
    Did he cheat?
    Probably, I dunno.

    But really who gives a fvck?
    After all, he did beat the other dopers.:thumbsup:
  • 01-11-2013
    Millfox
    Doper or not. I feel sorry for the man.
  • 01-11-2013
    Gasp4Air
    From TheOnion store:
  • 01-11-2013
    markymark
    this is my body and i can do whatever i want to it... :skep: This ad was made at the height of his drug cheating...

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MIl5RxhLZ5U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  • 01-11-2013
    sxotty
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Sorry wolf, i dont buy into this one iota...

    You should at least a bit since there was loads of cheating on cocaine, amphetamines, and whatever happened to be around at the time since the beginning of the tour.
  • 01-11-2013
    floydlippencott
    Lance tried to destroy people. That is a few notches above doping, so anyone who suggests that "its okay because everyone was doing it" really needs to have a long look at themselves.
  • 01-11-2013
    DirtyHank
    Like he's used to doing, I think he'll just spin...Blame it on his trainers, say something like everybody was doing it and say it was the fault of industry.

    Hank :skep:
  • 01-11-2013
    NEPMTBA
    Let's see?...

    ...the Oprah book club, Hum? Lance will be penning a few new books really soon!

    They will both make lots of money!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Join the book club!
  • 01-11-2013
    fishwrinkle
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by markymark View Post
    this is my body and i can do whatever i want to it... :skep: This ad was made at the height of his drug cheating...

    oh he was tweakin' it. ppl need to stop caring about pro athletes. who gives a rats ass if they cheat, maybe thats why he had a nut chopped off. my nuts would want to abandon ship too, if i was spinning for 6 hrs a day and spiking **** into my body. go out and have fun and when it stops being fun then find something else. i'm so sick of hearing about oprah and lance i might chop my nuts off
  • 01-11-2013
    Fishbucket
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 53119 View Post
    you think off camera he'll snap one of those yellow wristbands in his eye .

    :lol:

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Fix the Spade View Post
    Clean eh? The only way that man could ever be clean inside is if he started drinking bleach..

    :lol:

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    From TheOnion store:

    :lol: :lol:

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fishwrinkle View Post
    , maybe thats why he had a nut chopped off..... i might chop my nuts off


    :lol: :lol: :lol:
  • 01-11-2013
    monogod
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by floydlippencott View Post
    Lance tried to destroy people. That is a few notches above doping, so anyone who suggests that "its okay because everyone was doing it" really needs to have a long look at themselves.

    yup. :thumbsup:
  • 01-11-2013
    monogod
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sxotty View Post
    You should at least a bit since there was loads of cheating on cocaine, amphetamines, and whatever happened to be around at the time since the beginning of the tour.

    substance bans weren't implemented until 1963, so for the first 60 years of the tour using PEDs wasn't cheating.
  • 01-11-2013
    monogod
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Did he cheat?
    Probably, I dunno.

    But really who gives a fvck?
    After all, he did beat the other dopers.:thumbsup:

    you can bet the first clean, non-doping rider across the line gives more than just one.
  • 01-11-2013
    jerry68
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    you can bet the first clean, non-doping rider across the line gives more than just one.

    I am betting you'd be hard pressed to find one at that level.
  • 01-11-2013
    alphazz
    Quote:

    I am betting you'd be hard pressed to find one at that level.
    And that's a shame. I'd rather see what men can do than what drugs can do. Even if that is a lot slower.
  • 01-11-2013
    kjlued
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    And that's a shame. I'd rather see what men can do than what drugs can do. Even if that is a lot slower.

    Sure, we all would.
    I mean lets face it, even the TDF on dope isn't "exciting" to watch.
    As far as excitement goes, the few more minutes it would take wouldn't make a difference.

    Does the fact that everyone doped at that level make it "ok"?
    No

    However, the fact that everyone at that level doped made it necessary to win.

    I would bet money that lance not doping would have beaten every non doper.
    Lance not doping probably would have also beaten several of the dopers.

    So, what do you do if you busted your ass your whole life to win only to find out you won't win and nobody will know who you are because all the top people are doping.
    It is easy for all of us to say we will fight the good fight and not sully the results because we are not in that position. However, I would bet the majority of us that say we would never do what Lance did would do exactly what Lance did if presented the opportunity.

    If Lance would not have doped up, nobody would know his name at all.
    Instead the name of the next doper would be on our tongues.

    BTW, just out of curiosity who here could name the 2nd place winner of every year from 1999 to 2005? Unless you are seriously in to watching cycling I bet most people couldn't name the five 2nd place guys. I would even bet the majority of people could not name the guy that got 2nd place 3x's in those years even though he doped too.
    Yet, Lance Armstrongs name would still be the first to come to mind of the majority of people in the world when it comes to cycling.

    nuff said
  • 01-11-2013
    Tone's
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Sure, we all would.
    I mean lets face it, even the TDF on dope isn't "exciting" to watch.
    As far as excitement goes, the few more minutes it would take wouldn't make a difference.

    Does the fact that everyone doped at that level make it "ok"?
    No

    However, the fact that everyone at that level doped made it necessary to win.

    I would bet money that lance not doping would have beaten every non doper.
    Lance not doping probably would have also beaten several of the dopers.

    So, what do you do if you busted your ass your whole life to win only to find out you won't win and nobody will know who you are because all the top people are doping.
    It is easy for all of us to say we will fight the good fight and not sully the results because we are not in that position. However, I would bet the majority of us that say we would never do what Lance did would do exactly what Lance did if presented the opportunity.

    If Lance would not have doped up, nobody would know his name at all.
    Instead the name of the next doper would be on our tongues.

    BTW, just out of curiosity who here could name the 2nd place winner of every year from 1999 to 2005? Unless you are seriously in to watching cycling I bet most people couldn't name the five 2nd place guys. I would even bet the majority of people could not name the guy that got 2nd place 3x's in those years even though he doped too.
    Yet, Lance Armstrongs name would still be the first to come to mind of the majority of people in the world when it comes to cycling.

    nuff said

    he wouldnt have beaten Cadel Evens, ''id bet money had lance had not doped he would have beaten every other non doper''
  • 01-11-2013
    Tone's
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jerry68 View Post
    I am betting you'd be hard pressed to find one at that level.

    CADEL EVENS, universally seen by his pears, insiders and fellow riders as a clean skin AND WINNER AND NUMEROUS TIMES PLACE GETTER OF THE TOUR.......
    Enough said...
  • 01-11-2013
    kjlued
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    he wouldnt have beaten Cadel Evens, ''id bet money had lance had not doped he would have beaten every other non doper''

    Speculation and we will never really know.




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    CADEL EVENS, universally seen by his pears, insiders and fellow riders as a clean skin AND WINNER AND NUMEROUS TIMES PLACE GETTER OF THE TOUR.......
    Enough said...

    Not second place any of the years Lance won

    Also "seen as clean" just like Lance was PROVEN as clean until new evidence comes out.

    ENOUGH SAID!!!!!
  • 01-11-2013
    Tone's
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Speculation and we will never really know.






    Not second place any of the years Lance won

    Also "seen as clean" just like Lance was PROVEN as clean until new evidence comes out.

    ENOUGH SAID!!!!!

    Lance was never proven clean, he rorted the system and plenty knew about it.
    There was a mountain of talk about him being a drug cheat, and this is during his career,
    and now its been proven....
  • 01-11-2013
    kjlued
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Lance was never proven clean, he rorted the system and plenty knew about it.
    There was a mountain of talk about him being a drug cheat, and this is during his career,
    and now its been proven....

    Well, nothing has really been proven.

    However, I have a feeling that will change after the Opera interview.
  • 01-11-2013
    petersbike
    [QUOTEBTW, just out of curiosity who here could name the 2nd place winner of every year from 1999 to 2005?][/QUOTE]

    This is such a red herring. Who cares ? Lance cheated and ****ed people over. The guy does meet the criteria for sociopath.
    He seemed like such a great gift for cycling. Miracle one ball cancer man! However once you unwrap that wrapping paper and delve a bit furthur you realize how bad he is.
  • 01-11-2013
    monogod
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Well, nothing has really been proven.

    yeah, you pretty much got us there....

    after all, LA's dirty drugs tests have proven nothing.

    his documented perjury have proven nothing.

    his documented blackmailing, extortion, retaliation, and pay-offs has proven nothing.

    his documented association with a known drug doctor and the money trail of over $1,000,000 leading from LA to ferarri.

    the sworn testimony of 30+ people proves nothing either.

    the fact that he willing accepted having his wins stripped and banned for life rather than face the evidence/testimony in an open hearing proves nothing.

    the fact that he's considering coming clean now that he sees that in his benefit proves nothing.

    my guess is that for LA's minions in his peanut gallery it will prove nothing even if he admits everything.
  • 01-11-2013
    kjlued
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by petersbike View Post
    [QUOTEBTW, just out of curiosity who here could name the 2nd place winner of every year from 1999 to 2005?]

    This is such a red herring. Who cares ? Lance cheated and ****ed people over. The guy does meet the criteria for sociopath.
    He seemed like such a great gift for cycling. Miracle one ball cancer man! However once you unwrap that wrapping paper and delve a bit furthur you realize how bad he is.[/QUOTE]

    I like this whole "red herring" claim people are taking.

    I have no answer, so I will claim red herring.

    BTW, your second part of your response is what you would call a red herring. Just saying. :rolleyes:
  • 01-11-2013
    kjlued
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    yeah, you pretty much got us there....

    after all, LA's dirty drugs tests have proven nothing.

    his documented perjury have proven nothing.

    his documented blackmailing, extortion, retaliation, and pay-offs has proven nothing.

    his documented association with a known drug doctor and the money trail of over $1,000,000 leading from LA to ferarri.

    the sworn testimony of 30+ people proves nothing either.

    the fact that he willing accepted having his wins stripped and banned for life rather than face the evidence/testimony in an open hearing proves nothing.

    the fact that he's considering coming clean now that he sees that in his benefit proves nothing.

    my guess is that for LA's minions in his peanut gallery it will prove nothing even if he admits everything.

    You are mistaking "PROOF" for what we know to be probably true.
    What we see as probably true though is nothing more than a matter of opinion.

    Would hate to see you on a jury.
  • 01-11-2013
    monogod
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    I would bet money that lance not doping would have beaten every non doper.
    Lance not doping probably would have also beaten several of the dopers.

    yeah, as a clean rider he really handed everyone their ass by being nothing more than a pack filler who couldn't finish a tour.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjuled
    However, I would bet the majority of us that say we would never do what Lance did would do exactly what Lance did if presented the opportunity.

    speak for yourself. i'd rather never be a contender than win like LA did. it's called personal integrity. read up on it some time, your pro-cheating position suggests you have little if any first hand knowledge.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjuled
    If Lance would not have doped up, nobody would know his name at all.

    'nuff said. :thumbsup:
  • 01-11-2013
    Slow Danger
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    yup. :thumbsup:

    Double yup. Doping is the least of Lance's problems.
  • 01-11-2013
    monogod
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    You are mistaking "PROOF" for what we know to be probably true.
    What we see as probably true though is nothing more than a matter of opinion.

    Would hate to see you on a jury.

    aw geez... you just pwned us again.

    and here all this time we mistakenly believed documented perjury, documented failed drug tests, and documented money trails of cover-ups, bribes, and money funneled to a known drug doctor he swore to have no contact consisted of proof when the whole time they were nothing but a matter of opinion.

    good thing you set us straight. :thumbsup:
  • 01-11-2013
    kjlued
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    speak for yourself. i'd rather never be a contender than win like LA did. it's called personal integrity. read up on it some time, your pro-cheating position suggests you have little if any first hand knowledge.

    So easily said when you are not even a contender.
    I also love how you assume what my position is just because I have an understanding of the other guys reasons and don't turn my back on him.

    Walk a mile in a mans shoes before you judge him.
    If you busted your ass all your life to do things the right way only to fall short because the guys ahead of you were breaking the rules, I would bet money your "integrity" would fall short. Now, we could go round and round and you could claim whatever you want and I could claim whatever I want but when it comes right down to it, we will never know because neither of us are even contenders.

    Desperation will make most men do what they otherwise would claim they never would do.
  • 01-11-2013
    kjlued
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    aw geez... you just pwned us again.

    and here all this time we mistakenly believed documented perjury, documented failed drug tests, and documented money trails of cover-ups, bribes, and money funneled to a known drug doctor he swore to have no contact consisted of proof when the whole time they were nothing but a matter of opinion.

    good thing you set us straight. :thumbsup:

    Awe geez, I am sawy, I feel so pwned now.:rolleyes:

    Lets throw out a whole thread of sarcasm and insults since we can't prove our point.

    FYI, I believe he did dope.
    However unless you were there to see it first hand, it is opinion.

    The difference is, I can separate factual proof from my opinion or belief.
    Not that I care, I believe he did do it.
    However, there still is no concrete proof that he did.

    I believe he will eventually fess up and then we have that proof, but guess what, I still won't care.:thumbsup:
  • 01-11-2013
    monogod
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    So easily said when you are not even a contender.
    I also love how you assume what my position is

    you post what your position is. i have assumed nothing.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjuled
    If you busted your ass all your life to do things the right way only to fall short because the guys ahead of you were breaking the rules, I would bet money your "integrity" would fall short.

    my guess is you are not a professional gambler. you like to throw "i would bet" around but the last few times you've done it here you've been on the losing end.

    i could give you several very specific instances that would prove your last wager to be a losing one, but this isn't about me. nor will any amount of your floundering around wildly throwing red herring make it be.

    btw... quite the contradiction you've introduced by admonishing me to "never judge a man..." but then turning around and doing that very thing by saying "i would bet your "integrity" would fall short".

    which is it? don't judge a man or judge him? you can't have it both ways.
  • 01-11-2013
    SV11
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Well, nothing has really been proven.

    However, I have a feeling that will change after the Opera interview.

    Yes it has, have you been living under a rock the past year?
    Seriously, you want proof?
    There is a mountain of evidence, why are you so arrogant?
  • 01-11-2013
    kjlued
    I suppose we could just keep going round and round but I need to get up early to go biking. Now that they are busting all the dopers, I think I could be a contender.:rolleyes:
  • 01-11-2013
    Tone's
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Awe geez, I am sawy, I feel so pwned now.:rolleyes:

    Lets throw out a whole thread of sarcasm and insults since we can't prove our point.

    FYI, I believe he did dope.
    However unless you were there to see it first hand, it is opinion.

    The difference is, I can separate factual proof from my opinion or belief.
    Not that I care, I believe he did do it.
    However, there still is no concrete proof that he did.

    I believe he will eventually fess up and then we have that proof, but guess what, I still won't care.:thumbsup:

    The USADA has a mountain of proof, some of it like phone records, doctors and first hand witnesses, paper trails, this is concrete proof, so much so that Lance would not face the proof on the big day...
    Lance is 100% guilty as charged, 100% there is no doubt in any rational persons mind..
  • 01-12-2013
    monogod
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    However unless you were there to see it first hand, it is opinion.

    those who disbelieve and/or disregard anything of which they lack first hand knowledge live in very tiny worlds.

    using this logic history books are filled with mere opinion. the holocost? meh... mere opinion. space flight? unsubstantiated personal belief by kooks. some moron was on the news yesterday with an opinion there was a shooting in a california school. i guess we shouldn't believe it since we weren't there to see it first hand.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjuled
    The difference is, I can separate factual proof from my opinion or belief.

    actually you cannot. when provided with factual proof you dismissed it as unsubstantiated opinion.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjuled
    However, there still is no concrete proof that he did.

    your refusal to acknowledge concrete proof does not negate it.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjuled
    I believe he will eventually fess up and then we have that proof

    hmmmm. by your own logic it would stand to reason that since we weren't there to see it first hand we'll be bound to dismiss any confession from LA as nothing more than mere opinion.
  • 01-12-2013
    SV11
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Well, I lied and will post one more time before I go to bed. lol

    I can separate proof from reality just fine.
    If the proof is presented in front of me, I will accept it.
    Yes, I still believe he did it, but yet have not seen the proof.
    You don't see any proof either as the proof has not been made 100% public and you just take the claims of others that they have proof.
    However even if the proof becomes public it still will not change the fact that I understand why he did it, and could really care less that he did.

    If 100 people on these forums claim that you have a small penis, I wouldn't take it as factual even though I believe it to be true. Even if they all proved it, it still would not change the fact that could really care less that your penis is small.

    You see what I sis there?

    BTW, me changing the topic to me about your small penis is a red herring.


    Are you high?
    Let me see if i got this right. Just because you peronsally have not seen the mountain of evidence against him, you are trying to argue the fact that there is no proof?
    Really, grow up.
  • 01-12-2013
    kjlued
    No, are you?
  • 01-12-2013
    Tone's
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Well, I lied and will post one more time before I go to bed. lol

    I can separate proof from reality just fine.
    If the proof is presented in front of me, I will accept it.
    Yes, I still believe he did it, but yet have not seen the proof.
    You don't see any proof either as the proof has not been made 100% public and you just take the claims of others that they have proof.
    However even if the proof becomes public it still will not change the fact that I understand why he did it, and could really care less that he did.

    If 100 people on these forums claim that you have a small penis, I wouldn't take it as factual even though I believe it to be true. Even if they all proved it, it still would not change the fact that could really care less that your penis is small.

    You see what I sis there?

    BTW, me changing the topic to me about your small penis is a red herring.


    LOL, If 100 people on this forum have seen your penis and say that it is very small, then it is a fact, unless it is one big conspiracy to make it look like you have a small penis.

    Many people that have nothing to gain or lose say they saw lance dope, eye witnesses, not second hand accounts.
    Theres no way in hell its a conspiracy against him, its as good as a fact...
  • 01-12-2013
    kjlued
    Damn this insomnia

    Yes, many people have very little to nothing to gain or lose.

    I have nothing to gain or lose to inform everyone of monogods small penis.

    However, now that the cat is out of the bag, lets discuss that because it has more relevance to then LA's doping.

  • 01-12-2013
    monogod
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Damn this insomnia

    Yes, many people have very little to nothing to gain or lose.

    I have nothing to gain or lose to inform everyone of monogods small penis.

    However, now that the cat is out of the bag, lets discuss that because it has more relevance to then LA's doping.

    TRANSLATION: "my mom's letting stay up especially late cuz it's the weekend so i'm going to sit in her basement on the interwebs and talk about my most favoritest thing in the whole wide world... penises."
  • 01-12-2013
    petersbike
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    I suppose we could just keep going round and round but I need to get up early to go biking. Now that they are busting all the dopers, I think I could be a contender.:rolleyes:

    Hold on I cannot defend my opinions anymore, I have got to go biking.
  • 01-12-2013
    kjlued
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    TRANSLATION: "my mom's letting stay up especially late cuz it's the weekend so i'm going to sit in her basement on the interwebs and talk about my most favoritest thing in the whole wide world... penises."

    Close, but it wouldn't be plural as my most favorite thing in the world is not penises, just my penis.

    Funny, that is also your moms most favorite thing in the world....my penis.
  • 01-12-2013
    kjlued
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by petersbike View Post
    Hold on I cannot defend my opinions anymore, I have got to go biking.

    That ploy would have worked if I didn't post several times due to not actually going to sleep after I made that statement.

    Sorry, but try again later.:rolleyes:
  • 01-12-2013
    petersbike
    Really ? You have just been posting about Penises since then.
  • 01-12-2013
    SV11
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Funny, that is also your moms most favorite thing in the world....my penis.

    You kind of farked up majorly here.
    Do not, I repeat, Do not sit behind your keyboard saying stuff you normally won't say to someones face in real life, there is one simple reason why...you know why and if you don't theres no point me telling you why.
    Maybe you should lay off the computer for today.
  • 01-12-2013
    monogod
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by monogod
    my mom's letting stay up especially late cuz it's the weekend so i'm going to sit in her basement on the interwebs and talk about my most favoritest thing in the whole wide world... penises."
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued
    Close, but it wouldn't be plural as my most favorite thing in the world is not penises, just my penis.


    hmmmm... so by your own admission you live in your mom's basement, she lets you stay up late on the weekend, and you're fascinated by your own own penis.


    i am jack's complete lack of surprise.


    the two options:

    1. you're a prepubescent boy who has not yet discovered how awesome girls are; or

    2. you're a grown man living in your mom's basement who either still has no idea how awesome girls are or is shunned by them.

    which is it?
  • 01-12-2013
    Tone's
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    You kind of farked up majorly here.
    Do not, I repeat, Do not sit behind your keyboard saying stuff you normally won't say to someones face in real life, there is one simple reason why...you know why and if you don't theres no point me telling you why.
    Maybe you should lay off the computer for today.

    LOL, C'mon , it was pretty funny, even mono probably thought it was funny haha:thumbsup:
  • 01-12-2013
    SV11
    Tones, it's funny up to a point. I'm ok with mum jokes and whatnot in a comical environment, but when it comes up out of the blue in debate/arguement, then generally it's used to antagonise, and that I'm not ok with.
  • 01-12-2013
    shekky
    in regards to the tone and direction of this thread, which i have been reading with amusement:

    in organized team sports, a good team will often play down to the level of a bad opponent, which at times will allow said bad opponent to beat the superior team.

    my two cents...
  • 01-12-2013
    mazspeed
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    yeah, you pretty much got us there....

    after all, LA's dirty drugs tests have proven nothing.

    his documented perjury have proven nothing.

    his documented blackmailing, extortion, retaliation, and pay-offs has proven nothing.

    his documented association with a known drug doctor and the money trail of over $1,000,000 leading from LA to ferarri.

    the sworn testimony of 30+ people proves nothing either.

    the fact that he willing accepted having his wins stripped and banned for life rather than face the evidence/testimony in an open hearing proves nothing.

    the fact that he's considering coming clean now that he sees that in his benefit proves nothing.

    my guess is that for LA's minions in his peanut gallery it will prove nothing even if he admits everything.

    Well said. Lance is the ultimate scumbag, its funny that he wanted to come clean now only to get something in return. Unbelievable. Its not even that he cheated, a lot of them did, it was the way he bullied, lied and cheated the entire way through. Now he's a national disgrace. He earned that last distinction. The media is not giving this man a pass for admitting anything at this,point. It's not that he cheated, its how he did it and the way he went about it. He deserves nothing in return for admitting to be a lying cheating dirtbag. Sorry guys, i know some of you like him, but I have no respect for this man.
  • 01-12-2013
    mazspeed
    Delete
  • 01-12-2013
    Sandrenseren
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by floydlippencott View Post
    Lance tried to destroy people. That is a few notches above doping, so anyone who suggests that "its okay because everyone was doing it" really needs to have a long look at themselves.

    How exactly did Lance destroy people? Did he plant false evidence on someone, then call the cops? Did he verbally abuse people, grinding them into misery? Or is the "destroying" you speak of just the commentators saying stuff like "Lance absolutely destroys Vinokourov!!" when in fact all he was doing was to ride his bike slightly faster?
  • 01-12-2013
    Sandrenseren
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by alphazz View Post
    And that's a shame. I'd rather see what men can do than what drugs can do. Even if that is a lot slower.

    Watch some amateur bike racing, it's mostly clean as there is no real money in that.

    The trouble is, if they started televising amateur races it would attract advertising, big money and suddenly it's no longer just about the glory, riders will make it a living and need to win more often rather than just once in a while, some will start cheating and we're back at the "cheat or be poor and forgotten"-dilemma.

    If you want to watch clean sport, no matter what kind, you have to get out there and watch the grassroots live. As soon as a sport gets televised, the big money enters and people start cheating to stay ahead and get the wins.
  • 01-12-2013
    MNRon
    Emma O'Reilly. Greg LeMond. Betsy and Frankie Andrue. David Walsh. Five names of people that were highly affected by LA's attempt to destroy them. Many more are out there.
  • 01-12-2013
    Sandrenseren
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MNRon View Post
    Emma O'Reilly. Greg LeMond. Betsy and Frankie Andrue. David Walsh. Five names of people that were highly affected by LA's attempt to destroy them. Many more are out there.

    Again, how did he try to destroy them?

    Just picking one, Emma O'Reilly was signed to the team as a handyman, doing laundry, preparing meals, massaging sore legs, stuff like that. I haven't seen her contract, but I think it's safe to bet that there was some sort of clause about discretion in there. Despite that she chooses to spill her guts in a book. She gets sued by the team for doing so and the team tried to discredit her statements by telling nasty stories about her. How is that destroying someone? Is she now destroyed?

    If I speak ill of my employer I'll probably end up being fired. If there was a discretion clause in my contract I might end up being sued. Does that mean that my employer is evil and trying to destroy me? Or are they merely doing what every corporation would do to protect their name and setting an example to other employees about honoring the discretion clause?
  • 01-12-2013
    kjlued
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    You kind of farked up majorly here.
    Do not, I repeat, Do not sit behind your keyboard saying stuff you normally won't say to someones face in real life, there is one simple reason why...you know why and if you don't theres no point me telling you why.
    Maybe you should lay off the computer for today.

    Actually, there is a lot of things I would say in person that would surprise you.
    But if a joke gets to you that bad there the must be some truth to it.

    It obviously did't bother mono as much because either I am prepubescent or an adult living in my moms basement and he doesn't take me seriously. Also he knows it to not be true. However, it seems to bother you, I wonder why?

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    hmmmm... so by your own admission you live in your mom's basement, she lets you stay up late on the weekend, and you're fascinated by your own own penis.


    i am jack's complete lack of surprise.


    the two options:

    1. you're a prepubescent boy who has not yet discovered how awesome girls are; or

    2. you're a grown man living in your mom's basement who either still has no idea how awesome girls are or is shunned by them.

    which is it?

    Yup, that is what it is... you chose, I will go with either one. :thumbsup:


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mazspeed View Post
    Well said. Lance is the ultimate scumbag,


    Oh, c'mon.
    Ultimate scumbag? Really?

    So you think he is low than murderers, rapists and pedophiles?
    Or is he just equally as low?
  • 01-12-2013
    kjlued
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sandrenseren View Post
    Watch some amateur bike racing, it's mostly clean as there is no real money in that.

    The trouble is, if they started televising amateur races it would attract advertising, big money and suddenly it's no longer just about the glory, riders will make it a living and need to win more often rather than just once in a while, some will start cheating and we're back at the "cheat or be poor and forgotten"-dilemma.

    If you want to watch clean sport, no matter what kind, you have to get out there and watch the grassroots live. As soon as a sport gets televised, the big money enters and people start cheating to stay ahead and get the wins.


    Well said.

    I don't think anyone is saying it is ok because everyone is doing it.
    We are just saying we understand the nature of the beast.

    It is real easy to point fingers and call somebody a scumbag and say you would never do something but when millions of dollars are waved in your face, I am sure a lot of those attitudes will change.

    Say you won't and believe you won't if it makes you feel better but in reality everyone has a price they would be willing to pay to be on top.
  • 01-12-2013
    SV11
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    It obviously did't bother mono as much because either I am prepubescent or an adult living in my moms basement and he doesn't take me seriously. Also he knows it to not be true. However, it seems to bother you, I wonder why?

    I haven't read anything by mono saying he didn't mind that statement, and I challenge you to find me where he did say he didn't mind. Dont tell me how you think mono feels.
    Even if he didn't mind, that does not make it ok.
    Bringing a mom into a debate/arguement to me indicates a complete lack of respect and intelligence, why the fark would you even go there?
    Thats all I have to say on the subject.
  • 01-12-2013
    Fiskare
    It's starting to look like he is gonna admit doping. Now, will he ever give Landis a nickle?
  • 01-12-2013
    kjlued
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    I haven't read anything by mono saying he didn't mind that statement, and I challenge you to find me where he did say he didn't mind. Dont tell me how you think mono feels.
    Even if he didn't mind, that does not make it ok.
    Bringing a mom into a debate/arguement to me indicates a complete lack of respect and intelligence, why the fark would you even go there?
    Thats all I have to say on the subject.

    I challenge you to find where I said he didn't mind.
  • 01-12-2013
    Tone's
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MNRon View Post
    Emma O'Reilly. Greg LeMond. Betsy and Frankie Andrue. David Walsh. Five names of people that were highly affected by LA's attempt to destroy them. Many more are out there.

    No doubt about it, Lance is a low life of the highest order.

    Even people like, David Berkowitz (son of sam), Richard Remirez, Ted Bundy have been honest after they where caught.

    But Lance remains in the class of the John Wayne Gacy's of this world and has never had the balls to come clean, and has continued to throw others under the bus to cover his own ass.......:thumbsup::D
  • 01-12-2013
    SV11
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    I challenge you to find where I said he didn't mind.

    Post #87
    I even quoted you....are you blind?
  • 01-12-2013
    kjlued
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Post #87
    I even quoted you....are you blind?

    No, but I know basic reading comprehension.

    I said it didn't bother him AS MUCH.

    No where did I say he didn't mind or that it didn't bother him at all.
    There is a difference.

    You would think that since you even quoted it, you would be able to at least comprehend it. :rolleyes:
  • 01-12-2013
    DirtyHank
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    and has continued to throw others under the bus to cover his own ass.......:thumbsup::D

    Maybe he'll throw Oprah under the bus.

    Hank :p
  • 01-12-2013
    MNRon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sandrenseren View Post
    Again, how did he try to destroy them?

    Just picking one, Emma O'Reilly was signed to the team as a handyman, doing laundry, preparing meals, massaging sore legs, stuff like that. I haven't seen her contract, but I think it's safe to bet that there was some sort of clause about discretion in there. Despite that she chooses to spill her guts in a book. She gets sued by the team for doing so and the team tried to discredit her statements by telling nasty stories about her. How is that destroying someone? Is she now destroyed?

    If I speak ill of my employer I'll probably end up being fired. If there was a discretion clause in my contract I might end up being sued. Does that mean that my employer is evil and trying to destroy me? Or are they merely doing what every corporation would do to protect their name and setting an example to other employees about honoring the discretion clause?

    How about LeMond and Trek? Documented that LA used his influence to get Trek to drop The LeMond line.

    As far as an employer handling itself after firing someone, they don't libel someone in the press while in a lawsuit with them.
  • 01-12-2013
    bhc
    So will Lemond be in the audience on the Oprah show? :D
  • 01-12-2013
    Fiskare
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DirtyHank View Post
    Maybe he'll throw Oprah under the bus.

    That's no way to treat a bus.
  • 01-12-2013
    Berm
    Not only did he cheat, but he crucified all those who dare challenged him. He does not deserve a pass.
  • 01-12-2013
    SV11
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    No, but I know basic reading comprehension.

    I said it didn't bother him AS MUCH.

    No where did I say he didn't mind or that it didn't bother him at all.
    There is a difference.

    You would think that since you even quoted it, you would be able to at least comprehend it. :rolleyes:

    Are you thick?
    How the hell do you know that "it didn't bother him AS MUCH"?
    It means the same thing, you are assuming on how he feels.
    Quit whle you're behind.
  • 01-12-2013
    Fishbucket
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    No, but I know basic reading comprehension.

    I said it didn't bother him AS MUCH.

    No where did I say he didn't mind or that it didn't bother him at all.
    There is a difference.


    I'll jump into this....

    The affect you were looking for was to belittle his mother and make the argument personal... Most likely because you were not being heard or agreed with. ( 'llI go with the latter)

    It's a deflection tactic to amp up the other person, and then when they blow-up, you use that as a chance to chop them down. to make proof, they are the irrational one.

    :)