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  1. #101
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    So what part in this will the Fed. Government have ?? they were handing out the money for the team to win... No?

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berm View Post
    Not only did he cheat, but he crucified all those who dare challenged him. He does not deserve a pass.
    He's not gonna get a pass. It's just business now. Image management. Do you think he will cry?

  3. #103
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    I understand this is a forums and we all can debate and say what we want , but seriously some of you guys need to get your washed up heads out of your ass and go ride . There is no point of being on an internet trying to prove this and that when the case has nothing to do with any of you , your not the jury nor the judge so stfu already . There is doping in all sports , it has been around and will be around , this is not the first nor the last case , GET USED to it . You can say he was a scumbag , a cool guy , whatever you want , but in the end he is just another guy that got busted big deal .

    I will give him credit tho for starting the Livestrong foundation , havent seen many other dopers do something of this caliber , im not saying it makes him a better person but at least hes not a full cup of **** right ? Whatever happens happens , but whatever the outcome is it will not affect ANY of you guys on here so relax you dr phil's .

    Point being , there are bigger pictures in your life im sure you should worry about and focus on then something thats on the news


    Regarding KJlueds comment , cmon really ? Are you guys that butt hurt and sensitive to words typed over the INTERNET ? lol wow might as well throw on the high heels and lipstick at that rate . Who gives a fuk

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiskare View Post
    He's not gonna get a pass. It's just business now. Image management. Do you think he will cry?
    Thats a tough one to answer... Has he shown remorse....... yet?

  5. #105
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    I have to agree this is getting ridiculous. And saying Lance is worse than a serial killer for cheating at a bike race or being mean to those that also cheated and then tried to deflect their own problems by blaming him? Wow you really need some perspective.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by sxotty View Post
    I have to agree this is getting ridiculous. And saying Lance is worse than a serial killer for cheating at a bike race or being mean to those that also cheated and then tried to deflect their own problems by blaming him? Wow you really need some perspective.
    Bwahahaha hook line and sinker, i knew that comparison would get a bite lol and bang his on...

    But seriously he is a worse liar than Richard Ramirez, Ted Bundy and David Berkowitz ( the son of sam), thats a fact, as they all come clean after they were caught and didnt try to throw others under the bus, i didnt say he was a worse person than them, just a bigger liar, and infact Lance is a bigger sociopath than all of them,.

    Lance is in the John Wayne Gacy class of liar, both of then living in denial, both self serving, both sociopaths, and both try and throw others under the bus to cover their own asses.

    I studied forensics for years at night at uni for a hobby, serial killers is a very interesting topic to me thats why im referring to their traits, there are actually a lot of similarities between lances sociopathic nature and a few of them, seeings many sociopaths are serial killers......
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Lance is in the John Wayne Gacy class of liar, both of then living in denial, both self serving, both sociopaths, and both try and throw others under the bus to cover their own asses.
    Let's crank it up another level ... someday LA will be a political player on the national level. He doesn't seem to care about anything but winning, the perfect attitude for a career in DC.
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    But seriously he is a worse liar than Richard Ramirez, Ted Bundy and David Berkowitz ( the son of sam), thats a fact, as they all come clean after they were caught and didnt try to throw others under the bus, i didnt say he was a worse person than them, just a bigger liar, and infact Lance is a bigger sociopath than all of them,.
    We already went over this he is sort of a stellar liar. Terrible liars are rarely sociopaths because they feel guilty and give away that they are lying. Sociopaths make much better liars.

  9. #109
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    Armstrong threads always start slow, then build up momentum, until hilariousness ensues. Great thread.

    I haven't seen this possibility thrown out there, and I don't profess enough knowledge to validate my thoughts, but what if...

    ...Lance comes out, admits to doping, et al, but spins it to this: the reason why he doped was to ensure that we won the TdF and he knew that he needed to not only win one TdF, but to string enough wins together to immortalize him so that the Livestrong Foundation would have enough brand recognition to generate real tangible assets and money to provide cancer support to the extent that it does.

    Maybe his spin will be that he did all of this not for himself, but to ensure that the Livestrong Foundation would solidify its presence to last on its own regardless of whatever outcomes Armstrong the individual would ensue. Give the Foundation a kick start, emboss it in the general public for now and forever, and accept whatever personal risks come out of it. Given his cancer, he possibly thought that his time was limited, so he used his celebrity status to create a lasting testament to the Foundation that would survive his life and give back to those that had gone through cancer such as himself. After all, if you survived cancer, what have you got to lose? You've already faced a life threatening event, I'm sure everything else pales in comparison.

    He could have thought that maybe he'd only have ten years to live, so why not cheat, get the Foundation its starting mark, and be damned with the personal consequences. Do you think he really cares what happens to him personally when he's been given a second chance at life anyways? Possibly he thinks his time was up when he got cancer and his life since has just been "extra" and he's using it to do something meaningful (for the Foundation).

    Yeah, he'd have to deny all doping accusations to ensure that the Foundation was well established. Couldn't have the Foundation come under scrutiny in the midst of his TdF wins. Years after the TdF wins, the Foundation will live on regardless of what happens to Lance. I haven't yet seen somebody blast the Foundation, only Lance the individual, so in that sense, I think he succeeded.

    Just a thought. I'm not defending him, but possibly his mindset earlier was to setup the Foundation based on his TdF wins, and arrogance, et al came later when his second chance at life went longer than he originally thought.

    Just a theory, guess we'll see later on.

    Disclaimer: please don't quote me and challenge me to a dual. I've already confessed that I'm not entirely fluent with all aspects of Armstrong the individual and Armstrong the Foundation. Please don't attempt to rile me up with grammar or spelling errors I may have made, or attempt to present me with evidence to the contrary as I'm not presenting a end-all argument or thesis here.

    Yes, I have a mom, and no, I don't have first experience with kangaroos, so hopefully those aspects won't present themselves along with quotations of my post later on.

    I have no fear of negative rep, so flame away, although I am more partial to green chiclets than red.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkirkpatri View Post
    Disclaimer: please don't quote me and challenge me to a dual. I've already confessed that I'm not entirely fluent with all aspects of Armstrong the individual and Armstrong the Foundation. Please don't attempt to rile me up with grammar or spelling errors I may have made, or attempt to present me with evidence to the contrary as I'm not presenting a end-all argument or thesis here.

    That's got 'Signature line' ... written all over it.


  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
    ...... There is doping in all sports ,... GET USED to it
    I expect there is cheating of some sort in many sports, but I don't think I'll GET USED to it. I believe in winning fair. Call me a hopeless idealist.

    To make it fair, you'd have to explicitly allow drug usage to enhance performance. Then, you'd have people trashing their lives to win, which happens already in some sports. Winners would be those most willing to trade their futures for some short term glory. In my view, that's not what sport should be about.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  12. #112
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    In many cases even when people don't dope that is still what happens.

    People lose the joint mobility to sports on a pretty regular basis. Contact sports are worse on the body, but many sports end up with a price.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by sxotty View Post
    In many cases even when people don't dope that is still what happens.

    People lose the joint mobility to sports on a pretty regular basis. Contact sports are worse on the body, but many sports end up with a price.
    True enough. But I still don't like the idea of using drugs for competitive advantage.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  14. #114
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    It's clearly a PR move, he and his multimillion dollar PR and lawyer team will control the stagecraft. I think there is little to no chance anything new will be disclosed, and he will dodge and deflect the USADA allegations. If this were a sincere heartfelt mea culpa, he would sack-up and go through the official channels. I speculate that he will play the cancer card. He will say that he only did it, because he would do anything to help find the cure to cancer. He will not rest until he has found the cure...it is his life's work and his legacy and it makes no sense to stop him from working on cancer and giving people hope and motivation.

    Oprah should include Dr Phil to call BULLturd, and bring out the people who he defamed, and the careers he has destroyed. Better yet, Lance should confess on Springer, or Maury -- That might be worth watching.
    jW

  15. #115
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    I can't even tell what's sincere and who is being a joker in these threads anymore.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post


    I understand this is a forums and we all can debate and say what we want , but seriously some of you guys need to get your washed up heads out of your ass and go ride . There is no point of being on an internet trying to prove this and that when the case has nothing to do with any of you , your not the jury nor the judge so stfu already . There is doping in all sports , it has been around and will be around , this is not the first nor the last case , GET USED to it . You can say he was a scumbag , a cool guy , whatever you want , but in the end he is just another guy that got busted big deal .

    I will give him credit tho for starting the Livestrong foundation , havent seen many other dopers do something of this caliber , im not saying it makes him a better person but at least hes not a full cup of **** right ? Whatever happens happens , but whatever the outcome is it will not affect ANY of you guys on here so relax you dr phil's .

    Point being , there are bigger pictures in your life im sure you should worry about and focus on then something thats on the news


    Regarding KJlueds comment , cmon really ? Are you guys that butt hurt and sensitive to words typed over the INTERNET ? lol wow might as well throw on the high heels and lipstick at that rate . Who gives a fuk
    Seems like you should make some time to ride. 1600 posts since 2011?

    The case has nothing to do with any of you so stfu already, but I will add my two cents. ???
    Last edited by petersbike; 01-12-2013 at 02:41 PM.

  17. #117
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    I've lost respect for him for sure....

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by petersbike View Post
    Seems like you should make some time to ride. 1600 posts since 2011?
    I'm sorry I own a cell phone and browse the forums with it while I'm at work or the fact that I had an injury that cost me almost 6 months of not doing anything. I'm glad that post count is what you worry about lol loser. I see you must be part of the butt hurt group

    Ya cuz you guys *****ing like you raced against him and acting like this is going to end the world.Not here to argue so suck it up or be a little sissy and not like my post.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
    I'm sorry I own a cell phone and browse the forums with it while I'm at work or the fact that I had an injury that cost me almost 6 months of not doing anything. I'm glad that post count is what you worry about lol loser. I see you must be part of the butt hurt group

    Ya cuz you guys *****ing like you raced against him and acting like this is going to end the world.Not here to argue so suck it up or be a little sissy and not like my post.
    Stop making excuses and own up to the fact that you are a hypocrite.

  20. #120
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    Okay you win ! But yes a type 3 separated r AC and 3 fractures to my scapula put me out for months, nice try . I'm done with you and this silly thread, peace out tool .

  21. #121
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    He is definitely an insult to bicycle sport, his foundation was just a way to make him look more clean and human.

    He was doping only for money, not to win or be the best. That is what makes guys like Hinault or Pantani "forgivable" riders.

    He made his own laws of terror inside the peloton. One man faced him and had been banned for this, Christophe Bassons.

    He was only there for money
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  22. #122
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    They all were doping. He just so happened to be the Best one doping. The guy is still and always will be a legend to millions of people. He has raised billions of dollars for cancer and cycling industry/associations all over the world. In my opinion, this man does not deserve to be dragged through the mud.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Are you thick?
    How the hell do you know that "it didn't bother him AS MUCH"?
    It means the same thing, you are assuming on how he feels.
    Quit whle you're behind.
    Are you thick?

    You obviously care more about it then what he does because you just won't let it go.

    Maybe you should quit while you are behind.

    But ok, if it will help you let it go

    Mono, I am sorry I talked about your mamma.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbucket View Post
    I'll jump into this....

    The affect you were looking for was to belittle his mother and make the argument personal... Most likely because you were not being heard or agreed with. ( 'llI go with the latter)

    It's a deflection tactic to amp up the other person, and then when they blow-up, you use that as a chance to chop them down. to make proof, they are the irrational one.

    I will agree and disagree.

    Maybe it was a deflection tactic but really it was just because this whole thing has gone round and round and is going nowhere. I mean seriously he has been lowered below murders, rapists, and pedophiles by some. Other completely belittle what he has done for cancer research and the other good he has done.

    So what if he doped?
    If he didn't, the second place doper would have won.

    Does this make it right?
    No

    However, it is really sad how so many people can be so self righteous and turn their back on him and cast him away like yesterdays trash.
    Like I have stated before, I would bet that the majority of those who have discarded him would do the exact same thing he did if presented the chance.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by chombers View Post
    They all were doping. He just so happened to be the Best one doping. The guy is still and always will be a legend to millions of people. He has raised billions of dollars for cancer and cycling industry/associations all over the world. In my opinion, this man does not deserve to be dragged through the mud.



    Jebus, where to start on this one? There is not one factual sentence in this post.

  26. #126
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    surely the great good which his foundation has done mitigates some of the wrong?

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by floydlippencott View Post
    Jebus, where to start on this one? There is not one factual sentence in this post.
    Well, I am sure not every TDF rider was doping but I would guess he was referring to the top guys when he said "ALL".
    So I guess if you want to take it for the word all, we go with you are right, that is not factual.

    I am sure many still view him as a legend.
    I would say this is factual

    He didn't raise billions but he did raise almost half a billion.
    Ok, so not factual but he did raise a lot of money for cancer.

    And he he stated that it was his opinion that Lance didn't deserve to get his name dragged through the mud.
    Well, it is factual that his opinion is that.

    So half his post is factual and if we want to get technical the other half is not.

    Just saying

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by floydlippencott View Post
    Jebus, where to start on this one? There is not one factual sentence in this post.
    How so? Sure they "all" weren't doping, but the top ones that were next in line to win were. So he didn't raise billions for cancer, his sponsors, the races he took part in, the sport of cycling as a whole? Go find facts that don't support these statements. Then come back with your fictitious character Jebus and actually back up your claims.

  29. #129
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    Does a thief get a break because, he helped an old lady across the street?
    Depends on what was stolen?

    What if it was you he stole from?

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopsuk View Post
    surely the great good which his foundation has done mitigates some of the wrong?
    That is actually a great question.
    Some will say yes, and others will say no.
    It really comes down to opinion.

    Personally, doing good doesn't excuse the wrong.
    However, it does help to make penance.

    It certainly proves though that the guy is not the lowest form of scum considering something that low would have never cared about anyone else other than himself.

  31. #131
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    My opinion,

    If the theif owned up to the crime and returned the goods... directly after walking the old lady across the street.

    .... not years later.


    .

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbucket View Post
    Does a thief get a break because, he helped an old lady across the street?
    Depends on what was stolen?

    What if it was you he stole from?
    No, but what if the thief helped millions across the street by using his stolen proceeds to hire an official old lady walker for that said intersection?

    Not trying to be difficult, but I think my example is more relevant to this situation.

    I'm not defending either example, I'm just expanding on your example.

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Are you thick?

    You obviously care more about it then what he does because you just won't let it go.

    Maybe you should quit while you are behind.

    But ok, if it will help you let it go

    Mono, I am sorry I talked about your mamma.
    Neither will you, you keep coming back for more, I really don't understand what the fark is going thru your head...you tell someone that their mom likes your penis and you are trying to make excuses to why its ok? Are you a farkn moron or just retarded?

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11
    Are you thick?
    How the hell do you know that "it didn't bother him AS MUCH"?
    It means the same thing, you are assuming on how he feels.
    Quit whle you're behind.
    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued
    Are you thick?

    You obviously care more about it then what he does because you just won't let it go.

    Maybe you should quit while you are behind.

    But ok, if it will help you let it go

    Mono, I am sorry I talked about your mamma.
    so your apology was not because you think you actually did something wrong, but rather is a political move made for your own benefit? little wonder you relate so well to lance.

    now it really makes sense why you're so bent on creating sympathy/compassion for him and are on a quest to rationalize/minimize/justify his actions. birds of a feather, and all that...
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  35. #135
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    to everyone suggesting that LA should get a pass due to the Livestrong Foundation (LF), are you aware that it contributes virtually NOTHING to cancer research? no funding. no support. no nothing.

    neither LA nor LF has furthered cancer research. the purpose of the LF is cancer awareness and to line the pockets of LA with cash. the IRS has recently become very interested in the LF as well for this very reason.

    i'm pretty sure everyone knew cancer sucked before the LF came into existence, so nothing groundbreaking there.

    just sayin'....
    Last edited by monogod; 01-12-2013 at 09:20 PM.
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  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Neither will you, you keep coming back for more, I really don't understand what the fark is going thru your head...you tell someone that their mom likes your penis and you are trying to make excuses to why its ok? Are you a farkn moron or just retarded?

    That's good complain about my insults by tossing out insults.

    Oh wait, I guys because my included a mom reference, it was the ultimate low blow. ok

    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    so your apology was not because you think you actually did something wrong, but rather is a political move made for your own benefit? little wonder you relate so well to lance.

    now it really makes sense why you're so bent on creating sympathy/compassion for him and are on a quest to rationalize/minimize/justify his actions. birds of a feather, and all that...
    LOL, political move, you got me.

    I suppose if it really did upset you then I will really apologize and it won't be a "political" move.

    BTW, I don't think Lance deserves any sypathy and I don't really think he cares if he gets it. I just don't think he needs to apologize to the world for his actions.
    I also don't think people need to be so upset over what is done just like I don't think SV needs to be so upset over my childish mom joke that wasn't even directed towards him.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    BTW, I don't think Lance deserves any sypathy and I don't really think he cares if he gets it. I just don't think he needs to apologize to the world for his actions.
    I also don't think people need to be so upset over what is done just like I don't think SV needs to be so upset over my childish mom joke that wasn't even directed towards him.
    Why don't you stop worring about what people should or should not be upset about . Instead worry about what you are trying to convey. Have some conviction and stand up for what you write. Apologize or do not but do not attempt to do both. Doing so gives you no credibility.

  38. #138
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    Sorry if this is mentioned elsewhere, but I just heard the statute of limitations for perjury has run out and that's why he's willing to talk to Oprah. Didn't she have this same conversation with the author of A Million Pieces or what ever it was called?
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  39. #139
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    i don't see the reason he should admit. hes got a ton of money in the bank, a good family. if he doped, you can bet others did too, and he finished those races with the fastest time at the end of the day.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Did he cheat?
    Probably, I dunno.

    But really who gives a fvck?
    After all, he did beat the other dopers.


    Yeah, that's what's odd here to me. He was better than the other dopers that he was riding against. Yet, we still hear little about that.

    So, the "playing field" was level and he still won.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe3 View Post
    i don't see the reason he should admit. hes got a ton of money in the bank, a good family. if he doped, you can bet others did too, and he finished those races with the fastest time at the end of the day.
    What do you mean "bet"??? I'm thinking they all had to because everyone else was and they knew it.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  42. #142
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    Lance Armstrong is the Robert Pickton of the bike world....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  43. #143
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    Actually he is the Ed Gein of the bike world
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

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  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by chombers View Post
    They all were doping. He just so happened to be the Best one doping. The guy is still and always will be a legend to millions of people. He has raised billions of dollars for cancer and cycling industry/associations all over the world. In my opinion, this man does not deserve to be dragged through the mud.
    You are the type of person he and his PR team will be playing to.

    BAMN (by any means necessary)? Does the end justify the means?
    jW

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    Yeah, that's what's odd here to me. He was better than the other dopers that he was riding against. Yet, we still hear little about that.

    So, the "playing field" was level and he still won.
    this question has been answered many times in many threads on here, you obviously have not done much reading. i'll spoon feed you the short version...

    you hear little about it because others didn't engage in the additional behaviors LA did: bribery, extortion, retaliation, lawsuits, intimidation, perjury, etc. and so forth. LA created the whirlwind he's now reaping while others never created a whirlwind in the first place.

    "the playing field was level", you say? um... no. it was not even level among the dopers, as those who could afford the better doctors/substances/etc got more of a performance increase than those who could not.

    moreover, do you think the clean riders would agree with you that LA, or doping in general, created a "level playing field"?
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe3 View Post
    i don't see the reason he should admit.
    those 8 little words speak VOLUMES about your character.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    this question has been answered many times in many threads on here, you obviously have not done much reading. i'll spoon feed you the short version...

    you hear little about it because others didn't engage in the additional behaviors LA did: bribery, extortion, retaliation, lawsuits, intimidation, perjury, etc. and so forth. LA created the whirlwind he's now reaping while others never created a whirlwind in the first place.

    "the playing field was level", you say? um... no. it was not even level among the dopers, as those who could afford the better doctors/substances/etc got more of a performance increase than those who could not.

    moreover, do you think the clean riders would agree with you that LA, or doping in general, created a "level playing field"?
    your words are every bit the truth, monogod BUT...where are you? i'll show you where:
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  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    your words are every bit the truth, monogod BUT...where are you? i'll show you where:
    kinda feels more like here sometimes...

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YBusptmJq4Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    kinda feels more like here sometimes...

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YBusptmJq4Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    one of my old riding buddies is firmly in the hard-headed camp no matter what i show him...

    still, i love the old *&!@#$ like a brother...

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    You are mistaking "PROOF" for what we know to be probably true.
    What we see as probably true though is nothing more than a matter of opinion.

    Would hate to see you on a jury.
    facepalm...

    you have not read USADA evidence - have you?
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  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Tones, it's funny up to a point. I'm ok with mum jokes and whatnot in a comical environment, but when it comes up out of the blue in debate/arguement, then generally it's used to antagonise, and that I'm not ok with.
    i don't think all this crap with penises is funny at all. particularly when mothers are involved as well. there should be some respect. i am disappointed that mods did not clean this up.

    can we not discuss this in civilized manner?
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  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    Sorry if this is mentioned elsewhere, but I just heard the statute of limitations for perjury has run out and that's why he's willing to talk to Oprah. Didn't she have this same conversation with the author of A Million Pieces or what ever it was called?
    ah now it makes a whole lot more sense...

    why not make a ton of cash off of Oprah?

    really, why not... he'll need them for all the lawsuits that are coming....
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  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    Yeah, that's what's odd here to me. He was better than the other dopers that he was riding against. Yet, we still hear little about that.

    So, the "playing field" was level and he still won.
    Yup

    I would be curious to know if people here that are pissed at Lance really searched their soul deep down inside and were honest with themselves what they would do if were in something like the TDF riding it clean but knowing you were the best but could not win because all the people above you were doping.


    1) Do you fight the good fight and ride clean knowing you will never win, you will never make the big bucks, get the sponsorships, and will fade away in the books like all the others who have never won.

    or

    2) Do you break the rules like all the other guys beating you and do what they do and hope not to get caught?

    I mean honestly all of us would like to think we would pick #1. I know I would like to think it.
    However, I can be honest with myself and I know I would choose #2. Just as I am sure that most the haters here would chose to do what he did if presented the opportunity.

  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Yup

    I would be curious to know if people here that are pissed at Lance really searched their soul deep down inside and were honest with themselves what they would do if were in something like the TDF riding it clean but knowing you were the best but could not win because all the people above you were doping.


    1) Do you fight the good fight and ride clean knowing you will never win, you will never make the big bucks, get the sponsorships, and will fade away in the books like all the others who have never won.

    or

    2) Do you break the rules like all the other guys beating you and do what they do and hope not to get caught?

    I mean honestly all of us would like to think we would pick #1. I know I would like to think it.
    However, I can be honest with myself and I know I would choose #2. Just as I am sure that most the haters here would chose to do what he did if presented the opportunity.
    you've made it abundantly clear you would absolutely and without question or remorse lie, cheat, disregard rules, use whatever unscrupulous/nefarious/underhanded tactics, and stoop to the most base and immoral levels of soul and character bankruptcy to get what you want.

    there's no need to keep repeating yourself. we get it.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    you've made it abundantly clear you would absolutely and without question or remorse lie, cheat, disregard rules, use whatever unscrupulous/nefarious/underhanded tactics, and stoop to the most base and immoral levels of soul and character bankruptcy to get what you want.

    there's no need to keep repeating yourself. we get it.
    Yup, you got me.

    So, you have never nor will never do anything dishonest in your life again?

    If you can honestly say that, then you win.
    Otherwise you are just standing on a soapbox of judgement.

  57. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Yup, you got me.

    So, you have never nor will never do anything dishonest in your life again?

    If you can honestly say that, then you win.
    Otherwise you are just standing on a soapbox of judgement.
    I dont think its the issue of ever having done anything wrong, its a matter if you are willing to throw others under the bus, bully, really try to take others down.
    Its not the way average people act.
    Your trying to make out that lances deeds are things anybody could have done, i dont think so, not everybody is a sociopath, not everybody goes to the extent that he has gone to, even in pro biking circles, the way he has acted is nothing but a disgrace.
    Its certainly not in my make up to carry on the way lance has acted.
    Lance is a grub, end of story.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    I dont think its the issue of ever having done anything wrong, its a matter if you are willing to throw others under the bus, bully, really try to take others down.
    Its not the way average people act.
    Your trying to make out that lances deeds are things anybody could have done, i dont think so, not everybody is a sociopath, not everybody goes to the extent that he has gone to, even in pro biking circles, the way he has acted is nothing but a disgrace.
    Its certainly not in my make up to carry on the way lance has acted.
    Lance is a grub, end of story.
    So Lance bullied grown adults of pretty much the same physical conditions?

    Maybe he was a jerk to people around him but a bully?
    It isn't like he was snatching the lollipops out of little kids mouths.

    So if acting like a jerk makes somebody a grub then read back through this thread and you can come up with a list of about half the people that posted (and before somebody else says it, myself included).

  59. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Yup

    I would be curious to know if people here that are pissed at Lance really searched their soul deep down inside and were honest with themselves what they would do if were in something like the TDF riding it clean but knowing you were the best but could not win because all the people above you were doping.


    1) Do you fight the good fight and ride clean knowing you will never win, you will never make the big bucks, get the sponsorships, and will fade away in the books like all the others who have never won.

    or

    2) Do you break the rules like all the other guys beating you and do what they do and hope not to get caught?

    I mean honestly all of us would like to think we would pick #1. I know I would like to think it.
    However, I can be honest with myself and I know I would choose #2. Just as I am sure that most the haters here would chose to do what he did if presented the opportunity.
    Speak for yourself. Not everyone here is so rotten.

    Simeoni did the right thing and stood up to Lance.

    Lance destroyed Simeoni's career for that.

    Not just Simeoni's.

    That is why I don't have any simphaty for the cheat.
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  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    Speak for yourself. Not everyone here is so rotten.

    Simeoni did the right thing and stood up to Lance.

    Lance destroyed Simeoni's career for that.

    Not just Simeoni's.

    That is why I don't have any simphaty for the cheat.
    So you are mad at a doper for ruining another dopers career?

    Seriously, how did Lance ruin Simeoni's career?
    Because he was better at playing the game?

    Either way, you support my claim since Simeoni doped too.

  61. #161
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    Sorry, I don't intend to waste my time proving to you that the water is wet. I would fail anyway. I submitted my opinion and have nothing else to add FOR YOU at this time.

    My comment was directed at other participants of the thread who at least have some substance to offer.

    I am glad that despite your disapproval - Armstrong got what he deserved and regardless of your outcry, a great majority of posters see Lance for what he really is - a cheating sociopath.
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  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    Sorry, I don't intend to waste my time proving to you that the water is wet. I would fail anyway. I submitted my opinion and have nothing else to add FOR YOU at this time.

    My comment was directed at other participants of the thread who at least have some substance to offer.

    I am glad that despite your disapproval - Armstrong got what he deserved and regardless of your outcry, a great majority of posters see Lance for what he really is - a cheating sociopath.
    Agreed....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  63. #163
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    This first article is a summary of some (by no means all) who have experienced the wrath of Armstrong. This is all old news now, but bears a review. Keep in mind also that there was tremendous wealth to fuel the LA public relations/legal machine that provided the muscle to retain power and control -- this is all about manipulating public perception to protect the image and the brand. So many of the posts to this and many, many other threads speak to the brutal effectiveness of this campaign (and I use campaign in the military, not political, sense).

    The wrath of Lance Armstrong: USADA outlines witness intimidation

    The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency sketched a chilling portrait of a vindictive and ruthless Lance Armstrong in its files Wednesday, painting the seven-time Tour de France winner as a peloton bully, capable of intimidating rivals both on the bike and at the bar.

    The USADA report details confrontations or issues with Filippo Simeoni, Tyler Hamilton, Levi Leipheimer, Betsy and Frankie Andreau and Jonathan Vaughters, among others. The Armstrong character drawn isn’t a kind illustration of the disgraced champion, instead conveying the Texan as someone determined to keep those who would shed light on doping in cycling subdued.

    At the 2004 Tour de France, Armstrong famously chased down Simeoni when he was in a breakaway group. Simeoni had testified against Dr. Michele Ferrari, who was Armstrong’s trainer.

    “You made a mistake when you testified against Ferrari… I can destroy you,” Simeoni says Armstrong told him. Armstrong forced Simeoni back to the peloton, with a sinister “zip the lips gesture” that was replayed constantly on television, though at the time commentators claimed to have no idea what it really meant.

    One journalist recalled Simeoni’s face — it was wet with both his tears and the spit of the peloton.

    “Mr. Armstrong’s statement to Mr. Simeoni in which he referred directly to Mr. Simeoni’s testimony in a legal proceeding and said ‘I can destroy you,’ and Mr. Armstrong’s actions in connection with his threatening statement, constitute acts of attempted witness intimidation,” the USADA report reads.


    Full text here.

    I think the key to thinking about this is there is a very long and consistent pattern of the behavior that speaks to the man's character and this does not even begin to touch intimidation through lawsuits.

    Article from Daily News UK (scroll down to about half way through the article).

    If you’re finding it difficult to sympathize with those — including many reporters — who cowed before the threats of Armstrong’s army of white-shoe lawyers and high-end agents and publicists, consider that Armstrong was probably the most litigious athlete in the history of sports.

    He set a precedent for other athletes who would go on to use guerilla tactics to attempt to intimidate the media or silence accusers.

    As the Daily News wrote in 2008, Armstrong unleashed a shotgun blast of litigation at virtually everyone involved with “L.A. Confidential: Les Secrets de Lance Armstrong.” Just as the book was hitting shelves in Europe, Armstrong sued the authors, the publisher, the sources (including Emma O’Reilly), a magazine that ran an excerpt, and the Sunday Times of London, the British newspaper that ran a preview of the book. Armstrong announced the suit at a splashy Maryland press conference on June 15, 2004, then quietly dropped it in 2005, withdrawing his claims before a trial could begin, a tactic similar to the ones athletes Roger Clemens and Shane Mosley would later use against their own accusers.

    “In France, we say it had l’effet d’annonce,” Paris attorney Thibault de Montbrial, who defended the book’s publisher and authors, told The News. “He makes the announcement, but when the emotion goes away, no one realizes that he didn’t go to court.”

    Armstrong’s message was heard: his army of lawyers effectively scared away American publishers from translating the French-language book.

    “In a sense, it was an effective play,” Walsh said then. “The American publishers were frightened. Why would you take on a book that you knew was being sued in France?”

    Armstrong had also filed a bevy of suits in France and even initiated a special emergency hearing with a French court in Paris, where he tried to get a disclaimer inserted into the book calling its allegations defamatory. The judge sided with the publishers, hitting Armstrong with a small fine for abusing the French legal system.

    “Our lawyer told the judge it would be the death of investigative journalism,” Walsh said. “It would have been very convenient for all the rogues of the world to ignore uncomfortable questions and then just silence their accusers afterwards.”

    Armstrong withdrew all of his French defamation cases shortly before they were to go to trial in the fall of 2005.


    Full text here.

    Ironically (but not incidentally), Radio Shack was running a large ad in the side bar of this article and I kept accidentally triggering the pop up window. Kinda funny that Radio Shack has found a way to keep getting their money's worth from LA -- no publicity is bad publicity.
    Last edited by June Bug; 01-13-2013 at 08:06 AM.

  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    Sorry, I don't intend to waste my time proving to you that the water is wet. I would fail anyway. I submitted my opinion and have nothing else to add FOR YOU at this time.

    My comment was directed at other participants of the thread who at least have some substance to offer.

    I am glad that despite your disapproval - Armstrong got what he deserved and regardless of your outcry, a great majority of posters see Lance for what he really is - a cheating sociopath.
    What, you said Armstrong ruined Simeoni's career.
    Simeoni doped during his career which is a proven fact.

    My statement to you was a result of your statement to me and now that you don't have a defense, you play it this way.

    You need to prove to yourself the water is wet because I don't think you believe it.

    But whatever.

  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by June Bug View Post

    Ironically (but not incidentally), Radio Shack was running a large ad in the side bar of this article and I kept accidentally triggering the pop up window. Kinda funny that Radio Shack has found a way to keep getting their money's worth from LA -- no publicity is bad publicity.
    I was in Radio Shack a month ago and employees were still wearing Live Strong stuff but it seemed anything with a Live Strong logo on it was being deeply discounted.

    Got some neoprene armbands for the iphone reg price $20 for $2ea lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbucket View Post
    Does a thief get a break because, he helped an old lady across the street?
    Depends on what was stolen?

    What if it was you he stole from?
    But your Honor ... What about all the people I didn't kill

  68. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    to everyone suggesting that LA should get a pass due to the Livestrong Foundation (LF), are you aware that it contributes virtually NOTHING to cancer research? no funding. no support. no nothing.

    neither LA nor LF has furthered cancer research. the purpose of the LF is cancer awareness and to line the pockets of LA with cash. the IRS has recently become very interested in the LF as well for this very reason.

    i'm pretty sure everyone knew cancer sucked before the LF came into existence, so nothing groundbreaking there.

    just sayin'....
    Thus,possibly, being nothing more than an attention getter for all involved, or suffering.

    Not knocking the extra attention, but IMHO those suffering from this disease, would be better served via funding styles of support.

  69. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    Sorry if this is mentioned elsewhere, but I just heard the statute of limitations for perjury has run out and that's why he's willing to talk to Oprah. Didn't she have this same conversation with the author of A Million Pieces or what ever it was called?
    True, without a lot of lawyer speak within the courts, as it relates to the USADA charges ... But within a civil case, I'm not so sure.

  70. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    So Lance bullied grown adults of pretty much the same physical conditions?

    Maybe he was a jerk to people around him but a bully?
    It isn't like he was snatching the lollipops out of little kids mouths.

    So if acting like a jerk makes somebody a grub then read back through this thread and you can come up with a list of about half the people that posted (and before somebody else says it, myself included).
    You do understand that "bullying" does not have to take a physical form ... Don't you ?

  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    You do understand that "bullying" does not have to take a physical form ... Don't you ?
    Yeah, but I think the claims of bullying against LA is a little silly.

    If he was verbally bullying ] some children or other defenseless people, I see it.
    However, claiming he was verbally bullying people of the same stature as him I think is a little silly. I agree he may have been a jerk but I just don't see bully. But I guess that is all schematics on how you view the difference between a bully and a jerk.

  72. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Yeah, but I think the claims of bullying against LA is a little silly.

    If he was verbally bullying ] some children or other defenseless people, I see it.
    However, claiming he was verbally bullying people of the same stature as him I think is a little silly. I agree he may have been a jerk but I just don't see bully. But I guess that is all schematics on how you view the difference between a bully and a jerk.
    And I don't thnk you got my meaning
    Throwing money at lawyer's, to get the results LA has gotten, can also be a form of bullying.

  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Yeah, but I think the claims of bullying against LA is a little silly.

    If he was verbally bullying ] some children or other defenseless people, I see it.
    However, claiming he was verbally bullying people of the same stature as him I think is a little silly. I agree he may have been a jerk but I just don't see bully. But I guess that is all schematics on how you view the difference between a bully and a jerk.
    You need to do some research on bullying, Lance weilded a lot of power behind the scenes and was not bullying people of the same stature or power.

    The more i read your posts the more i realise that you havnt read the USADA report or really studied this case much, lance was a massive bully in every sense of the word..
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  74. #174
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    Cancer can reoccur.
    Some people need multiple treatment regimens over the years.
    Carboplatin is a chemo drug that also affects the bone marrows ability to produce red blood cells. If your hemoglobin count gets below 8.1 your choice is Procrit(EPO). A big dose of 20-40K units/kg is necessary every week to get your red blood cell and hemo up to avoid infections and continue treatment.. It's likely he had that treatment as part of his initial cancer treatment. Sometimes patients has reoccurrences and need additional treatment regimens.
    If he needed more cancer treatments during his career Procrit would likely have been necessary. Fighting cancer shouldn't keep him from riding
    Livestrong is about doing even with cancer

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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    Cancer can reoccur.
    Some people need multiple treatment regimens over the years.
    Carboplatin is a chemo drug that also affects the bone marrows ability to produce red blood cells. If your hemoglobin count gets below 8.1 your choice is Procrit(EPO). A big dose of 20-40K units/kg is necessary every week to get your red blood cell and hemo up to avoid infections and continue treatment.. It's likely he had that treatment as part of his initial cancer treatment. Sometimes patients has reoccurrences and need additional treatment regimens.
    If he needed more cancer treatments during his career Procrit would likely have been necessary. Fighting cancer shouldn't keep him from riding
    Livestrong is about doing even with cancer
    Let's hope that cancer hasn't come back.
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  76. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    Yeah, that's what's odd here to me. He was better than the other dopers that he was riding against. Yet, we still hear little about that.

    So, the "playing field" was level and he still won.
    As already mentioned, not everyone had the same access to doping that Lance and his teams did.

    Additionally, people have said here and on other sites that a good doping program can make you 3-5% faster. What's 3-5% slower? Well, depending on the year, 3% slower than Lance would put you somewhere around 80th place. So if just one rider in the top 80 was riding on pan y agua, they may have conceivably been faster than Lance, and won the TdF themselves. Yeah, there were a lot of people cheating, but I just can't see every single rider in the top 80 cheating. And that's just at 3%

    I for one hope that Lance's reputation isn't rehabbed by this admission.

  77. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    Cancer can reoccur.
    Some people need multiple treatment regimens over the years.
    Carboplatin is a chemo drug that also affects the bone marrows ability to produce red blood cells. If your hemoglobin count gets below 8.1 your choice is Procrit(EPO). A big dose of 20-40K units/kg is necessary every week to get your red blood cell and hemo up to avoid infections and continue treatment.. It's likely he had that treatment as part of his initial cancer treatment. Sometimes patients has reoccurrences and need additional treatment regimens.
    If he needed more cancer treatments during his career Procrit would likely have been necessary. Fighting cancer shouldn't keep him from riding
    Livestrong is about doing even with cancer
    LA's PR team probably already knows that. Wouldn't be surprised if that sort of explanation isn't rolled out to Oprah.
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  78. #178
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    Whatever happens there of course they will put a spin on it and people will gripe about that too.

    Then we can start a whole new thread on how he didn't come clean or how his apology wasn't sincere.

  79. #179
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    Isn't this a Mountain bike forum? Just saying.. lol you people need to worry about your country and government rather then this bs. This type of stuff goes on daily and happens all the time with bullying, lies, and extortion, and I'm talking about in all aspects not just cycling. Seems like most of you live in a box and act like this is such a crime. Mods should delete this thread as it had nothing to do with Mountain biking review forums.

  80. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by m schmidt View Post
    Let's hope that cancer hasn't come back.
    Yep. Lets hope he doesn't come back into the sport.
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  81. #181
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    I think I'll get a LIVESTRONG sticker on my bike just to piss people off.

  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
    Isn't this a Mountain bike forum? Just saying..
    You're a bright spark, LA mountainbikes as well....so you're point is?


    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
    Mods should delete this thread as it had nothing to do with Mountain biking review forums.
    Ok, while you're at it, tell them to delete the Off Camber section as well...seeing that has nothing to do with mountainbikes as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
    ...you people need to worry about your country and government rather then this bs.
    Ah, no. Thats what the politicians are for, that's why they get paid the big bucks.
    Last edited by SV11; 01-13-2013 at 11:08 AM.

  83. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Ah, no. Thats what the policitians are for, that's why they get paid the big bucks.
    And they're doing such a great job aren't they!

  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millfox View Post
    And they're doing such a great job aren't they!
    Thats beside the point, but yeah they are a bunch of monkies.

  85. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
    Mods should delete this thread as it had nothing to do with Mountain biking review forums.
    Ok, while you're at it, tell them to delete the Off Camber section as well...seeing that has nothing to do with mountainbikes as well.
    Touche

  86. #186
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    Lmao.. This thread needs a lot of hugs.

    Ya they get paid the big bucks from your pocket unless your a scrub leeching off the system.

    There is no passion about this thread? Unless arguing , bickering, and name calling is passion for you guys. Trying to justify who's right or wrong lol .I see a lot of jealous hate against the guy. I'm not saying what he did was right but it's nothing new to me since steroids , synthetics , and enhancers will always be around.

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  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    Yeah, but that is only good with the hipster fixie people.
    There are no hugs in mountain biking.

  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Yeah, but that is only good with the hipster fixie people.
    There are no hugs in mountain biking.
    good one...heh heh heh...

  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    There are no hugs in mountain biking.
    For LA, this is most likely true











    IMO, this is perfect for a Passion Thread.

  91. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiskare View Post
    There have been several analysis' of the affect this would have since the story was first floated last week. The consensus seems to be that Lance would open himself to less than 20 million in paybacks and costs (so all in, and maybe as lil as 10) but no jail time (and maybe no criminal charges) as the SOL has run on almost everything. These aren't my conclusions, so I can't vouch for any of it. To me, the more interesting question is what will this do to his legacy/brand.

    And of course he might just hold fast with the 'no, no, no it wasn't me' story.
    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
    Isn't this a Mountain bike forum? Just saying.. lol you people need to worry about your country and government rather then this bs. This type of stuff goes on daily and happens all the time with bullying, lies, and extortion, and I'm talking about in all aspects not just cycling. Seems like most of you live in a box and act like this is such a crime. Mods should delete this thread as it had nothing to do with Mountain biking review forums.
    We are talking about someone who has made somewhat of a mark in mtn biking by winning the "Leadville 100". He has definitely brought all kinds of cycling up on the radar of people that I interact with on my job and other social circles, hopefully it will end up being good exposure in the long run if we as cyclists put a positive touch on it. After all, we are ambassadors of this sport. He has to be one of, if not the most polarizing personalities that has been involved in cycling. Even this thread has revealed a difference of opinions on him and his story. Most of us do want to be associated with winners, albeit legit ones. I remember cheering for him enthusiastically thru the TV during the tours, especially the comeback tour. Yet after weighting all the information being provided by various sources including Tyler Hamilton's book "The Secret Race", it appears that he is not the champion that I and many others had once thought and hoped him to be. Apparently there are a number of us who have an opinion about him who felt like expressing it here. I thought it was kinda appropriate under the "passion category." It is still an option for anyone to chime in, including you and it is obvious that you feel some passion about the topic or we would not have heard from you

  92. #192
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    Dope free


  93. #193
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    No one wants the truth, they want the jucy story!!!
    I hope he drops his drawers and full moons the world, then flies a bird with a fiew choice phrases.
    '09 Specialized Rockhopper expert 29
    Born 26" trials
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  94. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by curtboroff View Post
    No one wants the truth, they want the jucy story!!!
    I hope he drops his drawers and full moons the world, then flies a bird with a fiew choice phrases.
    All you want to see is his a$$?
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  95. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    All you want to see is his a$$?
    Nah. But a good pic of his balls(shriveled?) should clear all this steroid talk up, truth or not.
    '09 Specialized Rockhopper expert 29
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  96. #196
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  97. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by curtboroff View Post
    Nah. But a good pic of his balls(shriveled?) should clear all this steroid talk up, truth or not.
    Balls?

    Can't happen he's got only one left.

    Therefore - a ball. Not balls.

    If be bad balls he would have owned up to his crap a long time ago.
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  98. #198
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  99. #199
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    the guy is a piece of ****. lied to cancer fighters saying " i did it so can you"...ruined many peoples lives and carrers,sued the **** out of tons of people, threatned to kill tyler hamilton in resturant and then said he was a liar.....

    Fug him.....

  100. #200
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    [QUOTE=bikeabuser;10067419]For LA, this is most likely true



    Well, pic one is a hot chic hugging a pro athlete not a huf between mountain bikers.

    Pic 2 is somebody hugging a new frame. I mean seriously, not only do I hug my bike daily, I snuggle up to it at night when I go to bed and if you don't, there is something seriously wrong with you.

    Neither depicts mountain bikers hugging.

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