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  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Sometimes I like violins.
    If they ever come to Australia, you should catch an Avett Brothers concert.
    They have a guy that really rocks the violin.

  2. #252
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    Oprah Says Armstrong Admitted Doping

    Oprah Winfrey is confirming that Lance Armstrong came clean to her about his use of performance-enhancing drugs during their 2 ½-hour interview Monday. She says the cyclist was "forthcoming" as she asked him in detail about doping allegations that followed him throughout his seven Tour de France victories.

    Speaking on "CBS This Morning," Winfrey said she had not planned to address Armstrong's confession before the interview aired on her OWN network but, "by the time I left Austin and landed in Chicago, you all had already confirmed it."


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  3. #253
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    Regardless of all this talk that he has come clean, i still have serious doubts, i think it will be more self serving lies and manipulation from lance, and he will not devulge any more info than everybody already knows..
    And i think that theres a good chance that him and Oprah are doing it.......and have been for ages
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  4. #254
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    Much more interested in how he financially/professionally attacked people that came clean/told the truth about him. Also more interested in how he was (and others) were able to pass the doping tests initially as I've always thought he and others used PEDs in TDF. Figured out to be a level paying field, albeit a dirty one.

  5. #255
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    Should say "figured it to be a level playing field"

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadsters View Post
    Oprah says Lance Armstrong 'did not come clean' like she thought he would

    Oprah Winfrey said Lance Armstrong, who she said confessed to her that he used performe-enhancing drugs during his string of Tour de France victories, did 'not come clean in the manner' she expected, Reuters reported.

    Winfrey went on to say that she would leave it to others to decided if the former champion was contrite during the interview that was taped on Monday, but she did call him thoughtful and serious.


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    Thursday night - 8 pm central channel 203 in HD (at least on my cable listing). I'll be tuned in (and on Friday for part 2 as well).

  7. #257
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    Here's to hoping that Lance Armstrong gets crucified. Not because he took PEDs, but because he vociferously went after those in the courts and media, who claimed he did.

  8. #258
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    I always expected it to happen, However I am a little surprised at how early the confession was made I was expecting to hear this years down the road from now meh whatever..

  9. #259
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    On a side note, I wonder how much this bike is worth now.



    Price: $500,000
    Designed by renowned British Artist Damien Hirst and ridden by Lance Armstrong during the 2009 Tour de France, the Butterfly Trek Madone bike was auctioned off at Sotheby’s, raising $1.3 million for the Texan’s Livestrong charity. The bike was sold for $500,000, which makes it the most expensive bike in the world. Real butterfly wings were used in the making.

  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spastook View Post
    Even before all the drug crap came out. I always regarded Greg LeMond as America's greatest cyclist. Armstrong was good but much of his success (not including the drugs) was due to the teams that surrounded him. LeMond likely could have won 5 or maybe even 6 tours if he didn't have Bernard Hilnault for a team mate then suffer a collapsed lung from a hunting accident.
    not even a comparison. 2 very diff eras of cycling but either way LA crushes whats his name.

  11. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    I see no comparison in that stretch.

    The exchange affects an entire worlds economy to some degree.
    The TDF affects the TDF.

    Kind of like comparing a guy who shoplifts a few groceries to feed his family because he was laid off his job to a guy who mugs little old ladies because he is too lazy to get a job.
    Sure, they are both stealing but I find it easier to understand and show sympathy too.

    As far as LA goes, I could care less if you show him sympathy and I am sure he could care less too. I just understand why he did what he did.
    Nice rationalization. This might help you understand why it is the same thing:
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  12. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Regardless of all this talk that he has come clean, i still have serious doubts, i think it will be more self serving lies and manipulation from lance, and he will not devulge any more info than everybody already knows..
    And i think that theres a good chance that him and Oprah are doing it.......and have been for ages
    Tone, I mostly agree with the first part of your statement, don't know about him and Oprah doing the wild thing. When this thread started, I did not mean totally clean, I meant kinda like someone who had fallen into a mud pit, wallowed around in it, got out and rinsed their face off, enought to look and see where they need to be going and moving in that direction. I am of the opinion that he will not spill like a cement truck, unless somewhere down the road the situation dicates it. In the court of "public opinion" for the most part he has not only been implicated, but convicted for some time. The depth of his offenses are not likely to be owned up to by him.This partial confession is for self survival.

    I did not think that I would be able to pick the OWN station up, but after going to the OWN website, there is a place where you can plug your zip code in and your TV station provider and it will tell you if the broadcast is available and also what channel it is on.

  13. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Kind of like comparing a guy who shoplifts a few groceries to feed his family because he was laid off his job to a guy who mugs little old ladies because he is too lazy to get a job
    Hopefully you will also see why your statement above is ignorant and elitist.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  14. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    Hopefully you will also see why your statement above is ignorant and elitist.
    Ok, so what you are saying is that dishonesty is dishonesty and it is all the same no matter which way you rationalize it?

  15. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by bt2S88 View Post
    So, what did WE learn from all of this?
    that for self-vindication, enlightenment/atonement there is spirituality, religion of all sorts BUT all i really need is Oprah in my living room. Oprah Saves.
    i'm on my Last Herb
    RestInPeace Hook

  16. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by 53119 View Post
    that for self-vindication, enlightenment/atonement there is spirituality, religion of all sorts BUT all i really need is Oprah in my living room. Oprah Saves.
    LMAO

  17. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Ok, so what you are saying is that dishonesty is dishonesty and it is all the same no matter which way you rationalize it?
    Watch the video and then I'll discuss it with you.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  18. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    Watch the video and then I'll discuss it with you.
    What makes you think I did not?

    Now, answer the question, it is a simple one.

  19. #269
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    I agree with the camp that LA is initiating a calculated recovery plan. There is no telling what Oprah is paying him for the exclusive. While I acknowledge the whole "If everybody is doing it..." rational I believe LA to be of low character. His attacks were personal and hateful towards his teammates and others. Let the cards fall where they will..
    I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I just hate vegetables.

  20. #270
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    LA will only say what the lawyers have said it is safe to say. The lawyers and the show producers will hash out what can and can't air.

    Kjlued, I've been following your arguments. All you have really done is position yourself so that you can't be wrong no matter what. It's a pretty nifty piece of argumentation for a parlor trick.
    Noogie...Noogie...Noogie.

  21. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    What makes you think I did not?
    If you did, then I'm not sure why you asked that question in that way. Either you did not comprehend it, or you are ignoring the findings. Since you are asking me to explain it to you for some reason (troll), I will.

    1. You said the Wall Street guys effected the global economy and the TDF is the TDF - suggesting the magnitude wasn't the same. Airely discussed in the very beginning that his research finds that a lot of little cheaters effects the economy negatively at exponentially higher rates than the few big cheaters. Armstrong's cheating resulted in accumulation of wealth for himself and those involved to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. On a global scale, it was small, but in a micro scale, it was massive. Since many of the riders rationalized using PEDs, all those little bits of cheating led to one massive cheat. Add up all the sponsorship dollars, all the advertising, all the bike sales, all the books sold, all the posters hanging on walls, all the dreams crushed as a result of the rationalizing of the cheating and you'll see how big this fraud was.

    2. When you stated you understand the guy getting laid off and stealing and do not understand the lazy guy robbing, what you did was rationalize the same behavior that takes place in two different socio-economic strata. You could see yourself getting laid off and stealing to feed your family, but you couldn't see yourself mugging someone because you can't rationalize that behavior. But the reason your statement is ignorant and elitest is, because, robberies are most often committed by males from the lower socio-economic strata and are "motivated by life’s needs, rather than drugs" (Gill 2001; Matthews 2002; Mouzos & Borzycki 2003).

    Stealing a pencil is the same as taking 10 cents from petty cash to go buy a pencil just as stealing groceries is the same as mugging someone to go buy groceries.

    Cheating to win a race to get more sponsorship money is the same as embezzling hundreds of millions of dollars from several corporations and personal bank accounts of people who belived you were playing by the rules. Using your fraudulent success story as a way to motivate people to do better in their lives is the same as a pastor who preaches against same sex marriage while paying male prostitutes for sex behind closed doors.

    Rationalizing dishonesty at any level is bad for ourselves and each other. The reason Lance Armstrong wants to come clean is explained at the end of the video. He wants to wash himself clean and show that he is remorseful. Well, guess what? So does Bernie Madoff. But, deep down, neither of them think they did anything wrong. They are only sorry they got caught. In Armstrong's case, he's sorry that he is no longer looked at as the greatest cyclist of all time.

    He wants to come back and prove to everyone that he can do it without PEDs. But he doesn't deserve that.

    Lance Armstrong deserves to be in prison, or a mental ward, because, that's where sociopaths belong.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  22. #272
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    not mine, stolen from FB
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lance Armstrong finally to come clean?-lance_oprah_et.jpg  


  23. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by bt2S88 View Post
    So, what did WE learn from all of this?
    Fess up and tell it like it is early on, even if you are the arsehole of the month, you might be able to come back from that. The longer you wait the worse it is.

    There is no money in honest business for most of us, unfortunately.


    Blueliner

  24. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by uglyguy2 View Post
    Turns out it was just a typo. LIE STRONG. That's what the bracelets meant to say. Not his fault.

  25. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestatevirgin View Post
    Kjlued, I've been following your arguments. All you have really done is position yourself so that you can't be wrong no matter what. It's a pretty nifty piece of argumentation for a parlor trick.
    So, if I positioned myself where I can't be wrong then I must be right.

    Next time would you prefer if I position myself where I can be totally wrong or only partially wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    If you did, then I'm not sure why you asked that question in that way. Either you did not comprehend it, or you are ignoring the findings. Since you are asking me to explain it to you for some reason (troll), I will.
    Since I don't agree and ask a simple question in which you still dance around, I am a troll? ok

    First off I did watch it and I did get it.

    However, it still boils down to saying all dishonesty is equal and in your long winded explanation you say the same thing.

    I will agree, that you have some valid points about LA not being remorseful about what was done but instead about being caught. This is most likely true. If it was not, he would have come forward on his own. I am sure every single one of have done something in our life wrong and were caught for it. At first we may have only been remorseful because we got caught. Otherwise, I am sure we would have came forward on our before getting caught.

    I will agree that all dishonesty is wrong, however, I do not view it as all equal.

    If LA would have been doping in a field of clean athletes just because he couldn't make the grade, I view that to be more wrong then if he was staying clean, realized that all the top guys were doping and the only he would beat them was to dope.

    Do I still think it to be wrong? Yes
    Do I think it to be just as wrong? No
    Do I hold either to be as bad as what Bernie Madoff did?
    Hell no, as Bernie Madoff did what he did knowing it would destroy the lives of those he swindled.

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