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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by CannondaleF9 View Post
    Seriously what is with all those OLD Charlie and the Chocolate factory references?
    Can somebody get this kid some cliff notes?

    The Good Ol' 26er?-d60.jpg
    29er = Hybrid Bike.

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  2. #102
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    Interesting that I see this thread today…I had an awakening this weekend. I went to demo a popular 27.5 with “all Mtn” geometry that I had to demo as part of my quest for a new ride. I’ve been doing the 29er thing, and it just isn't for me. All of the 27.5 bikes I’ve ridden have that “feel” that I miss. Well, there were multiple brand demos going on and one of the bikes I wanted to demo (Mach 6) was unavailable in my size at the time, so I demo’d a Pivot Mach 5.7 26” I felt like I had just come out of amnesia and remembered who I was and what riding was really about. I about $h%6 myself over the fun level!

    I ended up riding that “other” high end, carbon 27.5 bike like I had planned and it was sweet, but could not compare to the 26” Now I know Im comparing 2 different brands and models, but wow! I was pretty much sold on 27.5 because they all felt great and much closer to the feel of the 26. Now a 26” bike (albeit a very nice one) just spread the gap…I may be going back to 26er status. I don’t care if its popular or not, I just loved that ride!
    Hey, is that a Huffy? That's a nice-lookin' bike, boy!

  3. #103
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    So... I hear one vocal retro-grouch complaining excessively about the 650b trend, a bunch of yuppies spouting "I for one welcome our cycling overlords. everything new is the best always"

    and a small handful of people going "Meh, I could ride one. It's not bad, I guess"

    Personally. I am all for more options. When the option makes cycling better for someone. There are people out there that 650b is perfect for. I am happy for them to have it. It should totally exist. But not at the sake of a wheel standard that works great for a lot of people. I'm well aware of the excuses that will be flung at me for "One Or The Other" And I don't care. Cycling is a boutique industry full of lowish production numbers and high costs. Keep all 3 around. make everyone happy. the end.

    It is clear that the Cycling industry is going hard for forced obsolescence. and it will bite them in the ass sooner or later.

    I can gel with a lot of the changes. Oversized head tubes? you can adapt them down if you need to, but what they offer is a noticable upgrade. So... I'm cool with it.

    1x10+ drivetrains? 2x11? yeah. whatever floats your boat. that's nifty.

    Dropper posts? ...okay... It's your money. It's not going to hurt me.

    Tubeless? Definitely perks there!

    Press fit bottom brackets... getting glued in like crazy... because they suck so hard... Red flag.

    Killing a popular wheel size for no reason other than to force your customer base to upgrade? Dick move.

    That being said I ride mostly road/gravel/commuter/cx/flowy camping trails with no jumps or rock gardens.

    so 700c, 700c and 700c. We're just stoked to finally be getting discs and frames that fit fatter tires.

  4. #104
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    Re: The Good Ol' 26er?

    My favorite excuse for the proliferation of 650b is that we've stopped buying 26ers. Well duh! If it ain't broke, don't fix or replace it. My 2003 bike is still going strong and I see no need to replace it anytime soon.

    I'm eager to see the sales numbers of all bikes in the next few years. The industry requires growth in sales or it all goes to hell. Maybe Americans just have their fill of bikes or just plain can't afford what the industry is pumping out.
    When the chicks at school see how gay we are, they're gonna be all over us.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    My favorite excuse for the proliferation of 650b is that we've stopped buying 26ers. Well duh! If it ain't broke, don't fix or replace it. My 2003 bike is still going strong and I see no need to replace it anytime soon.

    I'm eager to see the sales numbers of all bikes in the next few years. The industry requires growth in sales or it all goes to hell. Maybe Americans just have their fill of bikes or just plain can't afford what the industry is pumping out.
    May 2014 IBD Sales Summary | Bicycle Product Suppliers Association

    Mountain bike dollars fell 5% to $56M on a 10% unit drop and 5% increase to average retail-selling price. 
All growth came from 27.5-inch-wheeled bikes’ explosive growth. Sales reached $10M this May. Twenty-niner dollars plunged 18% to $28M and 26-inch models dropped 24% to $18M.
    That's vs. May 2013. Compared to last month, April 2014:

    - 26" market share is holding steady at 32%
    - 29er share fell from 56% to 50%
    - 650b picked up the slack, going from 12% to 18%

    Discuss....
    29er = Hybrid Bike.

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  6. #106
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    Re: The Good Ol' 26er?

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    May 2014 IBD Sales Summary | Bicycle Product Suppliers Association



    That's vs. May 2013. Compared to last month, April 2014:

    - 26" market share is holding steady at 32%
    - 29er share fell from 56% to 50%
    - 650b picked up the slack, going from 12% to 18%

    Discuss....
    So sales of mountain bikes overall dropped 5% from 2013 to 2014? Yikes
    When the chicks at school see how gay we are, they're gonna be all over us.

  7. #107
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    That 5% is a lot more tremendous than it sounds, and the "due to 27.5's explosive growth" seems more like a short sighted opinion than evidence. even if 27.5 see's a peak in sales as it is hitting it's initial stride upon entry into the market. What becomes of it when it is no longer the Veblen good of choice?

    I genuinely have half a mind to start a bike company that makes nothing but rigid steel 26 inch wheeled bikes without suspension correction. mass produced through a reliable Taiwanese supplier. spec'd with reliable mechanical discs (Or V brakes, naturally) and reliable drivetrain. It'd be a hell of an ATB for 400 to 800 bucks.

    maybe then someone other than dentists would like this sport.

  8. #108
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    Re: The Good Ol' 26er?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agwan View Post
    That 5% is a lot more tremendous than it sounds, and the "due to 27.5's explosive growth" seems more like a short sighted opinion than evidence. even if 27.5 see's a peak in sales as it is hitting it's initial stride upon entry into the market. What becomes of it when it is no longer the Veblen good of choice?

    I genuinely have half a mind to start a bike company that makes nothing but rigid steel 26 inch wheeled bikes without suspension correction. mass produced through a reliable Taiwanese supplier. spec'd with reliable mechanical discs (Or V brakes, naturally) and reliable drivetrain. It'd be a hell of an ATB for 400 to 800 bucks.

    maybe then someone other than dentists would like this sport.
    I was just looking over the report when you commented.

    Mountain bike dollars fell 5% to $56M on a 10% unit drop and 5% increase to average retail-selling price. 
All growth came from 27.5-inch-wheeled bikes’ explosive growth. Sales reached $10M this May. Twenty-niner dollars plunged 18% to $28M and 26-inch models dropped 24% to $18M.
    While sales of 650b increased and 26er decreased, 26er still made 80% more money than 650b.

    So what would be the head tube angle on these bikes you are planning to produce?
    When the chicks at school see how gay we are, they're gonna be all over us.

  9. #109
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    The fact is 26" has been removed from the line ups in bike shops. The average rider wanting a new bike, and doesn't want to go all the way up to 29" sees no choice but to go 650B now.
    If new mid and higher end 26" bikes were there to choose from, and people could feel for themselves the difference in weights and ride qualities, then LOADS more people would choose to buy 26". The stats don't tell the true story.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by xr600 View Post
    The fact is 26" has been removed from the line ups in bike shops. The average rider wanting a new bike, and doesn't want to go all the way up to 29" sees no choice but to go 650B now.
    No, they haven't, and you're just telling stores.

    26" is still widely available, and is clearly much more common than 650b. The sales figures bear that out. There are still many midrange bikes in 26", some full suspension trail bikes, and vast majority of the all mountain, freeride, and DH market.

    Did you see how 26" is holding steady? 650b has grown at the expense of 29er sales. CLEARLY.
    29er = Hybrid Bike.

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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    I was just looking over the report when you commented.

    While sales of 650b increased and 26er decreased, 26er still made 80% more money than 650b.

    So what would be the head tube angle on these bikes you are planning to produce?
    Not to mention, 26" overall are much less expensive per unit. Comparing units, I've guess that 26" is currently selling 3x more than 650b.

    26" lost all it's sales to 29er's last year. Over the last three months, 26" has been holding steady around 30%.

    650b is cutting into 29er sales. This is not what the industry planned or what the marketing says, but it should be pretty obvious to anybody that it would happen.
    29er = Hybrid Bike.

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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    No, they haven't, and you're just telling stores.

    26" is still widely available, and is clearly much more common than 650b. The sales figures bear that out. There are still many midrange bikes in 26", some full suspension trail bikes, and vast majority of the all mountain, freeride, and DH market.
    I can attest to 26" being dropped at my LBS. They are pushing 650b heavily. I only see 26ers at Walmart, Academy, etc. At least they are still selling parts. Sad to see since the 26 is still a viable option. I like choices and I think all three have their place. Given the attitude of said bike shop and my experiences with them, I bought elsewhere.

  13. #113
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    I have been a devoted 26" hard tail rider for more than a decade, but have switched to a 29" bike this year. I would prefer a high end 26" hard tail, but there is a serious lack of options in this category, plus there are new tire and wheel offerings do not include 26".

    The bike is fun to ride but I do miss the snappy feel of the smaller wheel. If bike companies go back to building up 26" bikes for their higher end models I would get on board and buy one.

  14. #114
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    Yes, 26" bikes are being weeded out of LBS but how would someone who's personal profile lists "Nowhere" as his home and "Your MOM" as his favorite trail know anything worth listening to?

    Grow up Pete!

  15. #115
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    That is what I am seeing, as news of the 2015 bikes is slowly coming through, (as was already the case in 2014).
    When, sometime in the future, I need to replace my current bikes, with a new, mid range hardtail, & also a full suss, I want them both to be 26", but I just don't think that option will be there, unless I am prepared to source old bikes and bits, then, an in future years down the line.
    I want to see mid range 26" bikes in the current & future manufacturers line ups, and not just old stock or below entry level bikes.
    I am not at all against the existence of 29 & 650b bikes, its just that the ability to roll over rough stuff easier, was never something that I felt I was missing.
    If I have no choice but to move to 650B next time I but a bike, I am just going to be thinking about how much more I would have liked that same bike, if only it had come with good old 26" wheels!

    When did people forget what makes a bike feel better.
    Lighter, stiffer, stronger, faster, RADer!
    As for the ability to roll over stuff with better momentum, Who gives a toss?

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    So what would be the head tube angle on these bikes you are planning to produce?
    well, obviously the first model would just be a knock off of early 90's Rockhoppers. with models coming on in the following years that address other needs. a Rigid Huck bike much like the old Evil Imperials and Banshee Morphine would need to be in there as well.

    And since we're not suspension correcting these bikes, there will need to be a model with a tall, AWOL/Vaya style head tube. so that you can run a stem without an insane amount of rise!

  17. #117
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    Re: The Good Ol' 26er?

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    No, they haven't, and you're just telling stores.

    26" is still widely available, and is clearly much more common than 650b. The sales figures bear that out. There are still many midrange bikes in 26", some full suspension trail bikes, and vast majority of the all mountain, freeride, and DH market.

    Did you see how 26" is holding steady? 650b has grown at the expense of 29er sales. CLEARLY.
    Clearly more common at the trailhead? Yeah, but not for long... More common at wal-mart? Yes. More common at the LBS? Not by a long shot.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    No, they haven't, and you're just telling stores.

    26" is still widely available, and is clearly much more common than 650b. The sales figures bear that out. There are still many midrange bikes in 26", some full suspension trail bikes, and vast majority of the all mountain, freeride, and DH market.

    Did you see how 26" is holding steady? 650b has grown at the expense of 29er sales. CLEARLY.
    Maybe where you live. Where I live, Its nothing but 29ers (and admittedly, it does suit the terrain) My local shops did not even order 26" bikes THE LAST 2 SEASONS in most of the higher end brands and models. Its rare to see a 26" around here! I dont like it, but that's whats happening. Now I know there are other places where that's not the case. Usually shops that cater to a more gravity orientated scene, still represent well with the 26"
    Hey, is that a Huffy? That's a nice-lookin' bike, boy!

  19. #119
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    Well, clearly the market is fractured, confused, and unhappy. Which is why sales are down.

    You don't just kill off a wheel size that a bunch of people like, without backlash. (26")

    And you don't just prop up sales with a new wheel size that probably isn't right for a bunch of people, without a backlash. (29er)

    And you don't just prop up sales with a new wheel size, AGAIN, that is clearly a shallow attempt to force people into a completely new standard....without a backlash. (650b)
    29er = Hybrid Bike.

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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agwan View Post
    That 5% is a lot more tremendous than it sounds, and the "due to 27.5's explosive growth" seems more like a short sighted opinion than evidence. even if 27.5 see's a peak in sales as it is hitting it's initial stride upon entry into the market. What becomes of it when it is no longer the Veblen good of choice?

    I genuinely have half a mind to start a bike company that makes nothing but rigid steel 26 inch wheeled bikes without suspension correction. mass produced through a reliable Taiwanese supplier. spec'd with reliable mechanical discs (Or V brakes, naturally) and reliable drivetrain. It'd be a hell of an ATB for 400 to 800 bucks.

    maybe then someone other than dentists would like this sport.
    Yeah, and it's really only being propped up by price increases of bikes, and that the average 650b is pretty expensive. Being down 10% by units in one of the biggest selling months is kind of a big deal.
    29er = Hybrid Bike.

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  21. #121
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    So I wonder, how does the industry expect to sell more mountain bikes when the trail mileage growth rate is so low? Are we all just going to ride in a conga line through the woods and desert or what?

    Also, the value does seem to be going down on these new bikes. I look at a $1000-1500 bike and all I get is a steel stanchion air fork? I'm not paying $1500 for a 5lb turd with a crap damper on the front of my bike. Maybe I'm just spoiled? The used market is where it's at. I got my wife a 2009 Trance X0 with Revelation fork and Roval wheels for $1400. It's like riding a Cadillac through the woods. I may never buy a new bike again. There's too much perfectly good and cheap second hand stuff out there.
    When the chicks at school see how gay we are, they're gonna be all over us.

  22. #122
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    You answered your first paragraph with your second paragraph. The same riders you see on the trails are buying the bikes. I have 7 to my name...

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin_Federline View Post
    You answered your first paragraph with your second paragraph. The same riders you see on the trails are buying the bikes. I have 7 to my name...
    How do you ride 7 bikes at once?!
    When the chicks at school see how gay we are, they're gonna be all over us.

  24. #124
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    That's what my wife says.....

  25. #125
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    Re: The Good Ol' 26er?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin_Federline View Post
    That's what my wife says.....
    Probably the same way mine wear her 25+ shoes and bags...

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