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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by CannondaleF9 View Post
    Seriously what is with all those OLD Charlie and the Chocolate factory references?
    Can somebody get this kid some cliff notes?

    The Good Ol' 26er?-d60.jpg

  2. #102
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    Interesting that I see this thread today…I had an awakening this weekend. I went to demo a popular 27.5 with “all Mtn” geometry that I had to demo as part of my quest for a new ride. I’ve been doing the 29er thing, and it just isn't for me. All of the 27.5 bikes I’ve ridden have that “feel” that I miss. Well, there were multiple brand demos going on and one of the bikes I wanted to demo (Mach 6) was unavailable in my size at the time, so I demo’d a Pivot Mach 5.7 26” I felt like I had just come out of amnesia and remembered who I was and what riding was really about. I about $h%6 myself over the fun level!

    I ended up riding that “other” high end, carbon 27.5 bike like I had planned and it was sweet, but could not compare to the 26” Now I know Im comparing 2 different brands and models, but wow! I was pretty much sold on 27.5 because they all felt great and much closer to the feel of the 26. Now a 26” bike (albeit a very nice one) just spread the gap…I may be going back to 26er status. I don’t care if its popular or not, I just loved that ride!
    Hey, is that a Huffy? That's a nice-lookin' bike, boy!

  3. #103
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    So... I hear one vocal retro-grouch complaining excessively about the 650b trend, a bunch of yuppies spouting "I for one welcome our cycling overlords. everything new is the best always"

    and a small handful of people going "Meh, I could ride one. It's not bad, I guess"

    Personally. I am all for more options. When the option makes cycling better for someone. There are people out there that 650b is perfect for. I am happy for them to have it. It should totally exist. But not at the sake of a wheel standard that works great for a lot of people. I'm well aware of the excuses that will be flung at me for "One Or The Other" And I don't care. Cycling is a boutique industry full of lowish production numbers and high costs. Keep all 3 around. make everyone happy. the end.

    It is clear that the Cycling industry is going hard for forced obsolescence. and it will bite them in the ass sooner or later.

    I can gel with a lot of the changes. Oversized head tubes? you can adapt them down if you need to, but what they offer is a noticable upgrade. So... I'm cool with it.

    1x10+ drivetrains? 2x11? yeah. whatever floats your boat. that's nifty.

    Dropper posts? ...okay... It's your money. It's not going to hurt me.

    Tubeless? Definitely perks there!

    Press fit bottom brackets... getting glued in like crazy... because they suck so hard... Red flag.

    Killing a popular wheel size for no reason other than to force your customer base to upgrade? Dick move.

    That being said I ride mostly road/gravel/commuter/cx/flowy camping trails with no jumps or rock gardens.

    so 700c, 700c and 700c. We're just stoked to finally be getting discs and frames that fit fatter tires.

  4. #104
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    Re: The Good Ol' 26er?

    My favorite excuse for the proliferation of 650b is that we've stopped buying 26ers. Well duh! If it ain't broke, don't fix or replace it. My 2003 bike is still going strong and I see no need to replace it anytime soon.

    I'm eager to see the sales numbers of all bikes in the next few years. The industry requires growth in sales or it all goes to hell. Maybe Americans just have their fill of bikes or just plain can't afford what the industry is pumping out.
    The leg bone's connected to the Cash Bone!

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    My favorite excuse for the proliferation of 650b is that we've stopped buying 26ers. Well duh! If it ain't broke, don't fix or replace it. My 2003 bike is still going strong and I see no need to replace it anytime soon.

    I'm eager to see the sales numbers of all bikes in the next few years. The industry requires growth in sales or it all goes to hell. Maybe Americans just have their fill of bikes or just plain can't afford what the industry is pumping out.
    May 2014 IBD Sales Summary | Bicycle Product Suppliers Association

    Mountain bike dollars fell 5% to $56M on a 10% unit drop and 5% increase to average retail-selling price. 
All growth came from 27.5-inch-wheeled bikes’ explosive growth. Sales reached $10M this May. Twenty-niner dollars plunged 18% to $28M and 26-inch models dropped 24% to $18M.
    That's vs. May 2013. Compared to last month, April 2014:

    - 26" market share is holding steady at 32%
    - 29er share fell from 56% to 50%
    - 650b picked up the slack, going from 12% to 18%

    Discuss....

  6. #106
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    Re: The Good Ol' 26er?

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    May 2014 IBD Sales Summary | Bicycle Product Suppliers Association



    That's vs. May 2013. Compared to last month, April 2014:

    - 26" market share is holding steady at 32%
    - 29er share fell from 56% to 50%
    - 650b picked up the slack, going from 12% to 18%

    Discuss....
    So sales of mountain bikes overall dropped 5% from 2013 to 2014? Yikes
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  7. #107
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    That 5% is a lot more tremendous than it sounds, and the "due to 27.5's explosive growth" seems more like a short sighted opinion than evidence. even if 27.5 see's a peak in sales as it is hitting it's initial stride upon entry into the market. What becomes of it when it is no longer the Veblen good of choice?

    I genuinely have half a mind to start a bike company that makes nothing but rigid steel 26 inch wheeled bikes without suspension correction. mass produced through a reliable Taiwanese supplier. spec'd with reliable mechanical discs (Or V brakes, naturally) and reliable drivetrain. It'd be a hell of an ATB for 400 to 800 bucks.

    maybe then someone other than dentists would like this sport.

  8. #108
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    Re: The Good Ol' 26er?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agwan View Post
    That 5% is a lot more tremendous than it sounds, and the "due to 27.5's explosive growth" seems more like a short sighted opinion than evidence. even if 27.5 see's a peak in sales as it is hitting it's initial stride upon entry into the market. What becomes of it when it is no longer the Veblen good of choice?

    I genuinely have half a mind to start a bike company that makes nothing but rigid steel 26 inch wheeled bikes without suspension correction. mass produced through a reliable Taiwanese supplier. spec'd with reliable mechanical discs (Or V brakes, naturally) and reliable drivetrain. It'd be a hell of an ATB for 400 to 800 bucks.

    maybe then someone other than dentists would like this sport.
    I was just looking over the report when you commented.

    Mountain bike dollars fell 5% to $56M on a 10% unit drop and 5% increase to average retail-selling price. 
All growth came from 27.5-inch-wheeled bikes’ explosive growth. Sales reached $10M this May. Twenty-niner dollars plunged 18% to $28M and 26-inch models dropped 24% to $18M.
    While sales of 650b increased and 26er decreased, 26er still made 80% more money than 650b.

    So what would be the head tube angle on these bikes you are planning to produce?
    The leg bone's connected to the Cash Bone!

  9. #109
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    The fact is 26" has been removed from the line ups in bike shops. The average rider wanting a new bike, and doesn't want to go all the way up to 29" sees no choice but to go 650B now.
    If new mid and higher end 26" bikes were there to choose from, and people could feel for themselves the difference in weights and ride qualities, then LOADS more people would choose to buy 26". The stats don't tell the true story.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by xr600 View Post
    The fact is 26" has been removed from the line ups in bike shops. The average rider wanting a new bike, and doesn't want to go all the way up to 29" sees no choice but to go 650B now.
    No, they haven't, and you're just telling stores.

    26" is still widely available, and is clearly much more common than 650b. The sales figures bear that out. There are still many midrange bikes in 26", some full suspension trail bikes, and vast majority of the all mountain, freeride, and DH market.

    Did you see how 26" is holding steady? 650b has grown at the expense of 29er sales. CLEARLY.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    I was just looking over the report when you commented.

    While sales of 650b increased and 26er decreased, 26er still made 80% more money than 650b.

    So what would be the head tube angle on these bikes you are planning to produce?
    Not to mention, 26" overall are much less expensive per unit. Comparing units, I've guess that 26" is currently selling 3x more than 650b.

    26" lost all it's sales to 29er's last year. Over the last three months, 26" has been holding steady around 30%.

    650b is cutting into 29er sales. This is not what the industry planned or what the marketing says, but it should be pretty obvious to anybody that it would happen.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    No, they haven't, and you're just telling stores.

    26" is still widely available, and is clearly much more common than 650b. The sales figures bear that out. There are still many midrange bikes in 26", some full suspension trail bikes, and vast majority of the all mountain, freeride, and DH market.
    I can attest to 26" being dropped at my LBS. They are pushing 650b heavily. I only see 26ers at Walmart, Academy, etc. At least they are still selling parts. Sad to see since the 26 is still a viable option. I like choices and I think all three have their place. Given the attitude of said bike shop and my experiences with them, I bought elsewhere.

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    I have been a devoted 26" hard tail rider for more than a decade, but have switched to a 29" bike this year. I would prefer a high end 26" hard tail, but there is a serious lack of options in this category, plus there are new tire and wheel offerings do not include 26".

    The bike is fun to ride but I do miss the snappy feel of the smaller wheel. If bike companies go back to building up 26" bikes for their higher end models I would get on board and buy one.

  14. #114
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    Yes, 26" bikes are being weeded out of LBS but how would someone who's personal profile lists "Nowhere" as his home and "Your MOM" as his favorite trail know anything worth listening to?

    Grow up Pete!

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    That is what I am seeing, as news of the 2015 bikes is slowly coming through, (as was already the case in 2014).
    When, sometime in the future, I need to replace my current bikes, with a new, mid range hardtail, & also a full suss, I want them both to be 26", but I just don't think that option will be there, unless I am prepared to source old bikes and bits, then, an in future years down the line.
    I want to see mid range 26" bikes in the current & future manufacturers line ups, and not just old stock or below entry level bikes.
    I am not at all against the existence of 29 & 650b bikes, its just that the ability to roll over rough stuff easier, was never something that I felt I was missing.
    If I have no choice but to move to 650B next time I but a bike, I am just going to be thinking about how much more I would have liked that same bike, if only it had come with good old 26" wheels!

    When did people forget what makes a bike feel better.
    Lighter, stiffer, stronger, faster, RADer!
    As for the ability to roll over stuff with better momentum, Who gives a toss?

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw2jr View Post
    So what would be the head tube angle on these bikes you are planning to produce?
    well, obviously the first model would just be a knock off of early 90's Rockhoppers. with models coming on in the following years that address other needs. a Rigid Huck bike much like the old Evil Imperials and Banshee Morphine would need to be in there as well.

    And since we're not suspension correcting these bikes, there will need to be a model with a tall, AWOL/Vaya style head tube. so that you can run a stem without an insane amount of rise!

  17. #117
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    Re: The Good Ol' 26er?

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    No, they haven't, and you're just telling stores.

    26" is still widely available, and is clearly much more common than 650b. The sales figures bear that out. There are still many midrange bikes in 26", some full suspension trail bikes, and vast majority of the all mountain, freeride, and DH market.

    Did you see how 26" is holding steady? 650b has grown at the expense of 29er sales. CLEARLY.
    Clearly more common at the trailhead? Yeah, but not for long... More common at wal-mart? Yes. More common at the LBS? Not by a long shot.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    No, they haven't, and you're just telling stores.

    26" is still widely available, and is clearly much more common than 650b. The sales figures bear that out. There are still many midrange bikes in 26", some full suspension trail bikes, and vast majority of the all mountain, freeride, and DH market.

    Did you see how 26" is holding steady? 650b has grown at the expense of 29er sales. CLEARLY.
    Maybe where you live. Where I live, Its nothing but 29ers (and admittedly, it does suit the terrain) My local shops did not even order 26" bikes THE LAST 2 SEASONS in most of the higher end brands and models. Its rare to see a 26" around here! I dont like it, but that's whats happening. Now I know there are other places where that's not the case. Usually shops that cater to a more gravity orientated scene, still represent well with the 26"
    Hey, is that a Huffy? That's a nice-lookin' bike, boy!

  19. #119
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    Well, clearly the market is fractured, confused, and unhappy. Which is why sales are down.

    You don't just kill off a wheel size that a bunch of people like, without backlash. (26")

    And you don't just prop up sales with a new wheel size that probably isn't right for a bunch of people, without a backlash. (29er)

    And you don't just prop up sales with a new wheel size, AGAIN, that is clearly a shallow attempt to force people into a completely new standard....without a backlash. (650b)

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agwan View Post
    That 5% is a lot more tremendous than it sounds, and the "due to 27.5's explosive growth" seems more like a short sighted opinion than evidence. even if 27.5 see's a peak in sales as it is hitting it's initial stride upon entry into the market. What becomes of it when it is no longer the Veblen good of choice?

    I genuinely have half a mind to start a bike company that makes nothing but rigid steel 26 inch wheeled bikes without suspension correction. mass produced through a reliable Taiwanese supplier. spec'd with reliable mechanical discs (Or V brakes, naturally) and reliable drivetrain. It'd be a hell of an ATB for 400 to 800 bucks.

    maybe then someone other than dentists would like this sport.
    Yeah, and it's really only being propped up by price increases of bikes, and that the average 650b is pretty expensive. Being down 10% by units in one of the biggest selling months is kind of a big deal.

  21. #121
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    So I wonder, how does the industry expect to sell more mountain bikes when the trail mileage growth rate is so low? Are we all just going to ride in a conga line through the woods and desert or what?

    Also, the value does seem to be going down on these new bikes. I look at a $1000-1500 bike and all I get is a steel stanchion air fork? I'm not paying $1500 for a 5lb turd with a crap damper on the front of my bike. Maybe I'm just spoiled? The used market is where it's at. I got my wife a 2009 Trance X0 with Revelation fork and Roval wheels for $1400. It's like riding a Cadillac through the woods. I may never buy a new bike again. There's too much perfectly good and cheap second hand stuff out there.
    The leg bone's connected to the Cash Bone!

  22. #122
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    You answered your first paragraph with your second paragraph. The same riders you see on the trails are buying the bikes. I have 7 to my name...

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin_Federline View Post
    You answered your first paragraph with your second paragraph. The same riders you see on the trails are buying the bikes. I have 7 to my name...
    How do you ride 7 bikes at once?!
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    That's what my wife says.....

  25. #125
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    Re: The Good Ol' 26er?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin_Federline View Post
    That's what my wife says.....
    Probably the same way mine wear her 25+ shoes and bags...

  26. #126
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    What the Hell?!?! there's other sizes than 26 inch, when did this happen?
    All the gear and no idea.

  27. #127
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    Funny you should mention that. I sold my last 26er (Intense SS1) and have gone through 2 mid/high end 29er hardtails (superfly carbon and kona raijin) and recently demo'd a 27.5 all mountain. The ride was a revelation. I was just as fast going up due to gearing and had SO much more fun going down I was saying to myself out loud, "I forgot what MOUNTAIN biking was all about!"

    And FWIW I think I'd have just as much fun on a 26er FS, but there weren't even any available to demo. IMO on a FS bike there really isn't much need for larger wheels as the suspension is doing the work of soaking up bumps. I know there is a lot of room for argument, but for me field testing is king. Smaller wheels just make it more fun and given that they're such a mature tech, relatively cheap, relatively less rotating mass I don't see why they need to fall by the wayside.

    I just ordered a new 27.5, but I'd have been just as happy if there was a 26" version available in the model/geo I wanted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Monkey View Post
    Interesting that I see this thread today…I had an awakening this weekend. I went to demo a popular 27.5 with “all Mtn” geometry that I had to demo as part of my quest for a new ride. I’ve been doing the 29er thing, and it just isn't for me. All of the 27.5 bikes I’ve ridden have that “feel” that I miss. Well, there were multiple brand demos going on and one of the bikes I wanted to demo (Mach 6) was unavailable in my size at the time, so I demo’d a Pivot Mach 5.7 26” I felt like I had just come out of amnesia and remembered who I was and what riding was really about. I about $h%6 myself over the fun level!

    I ended up riding that “other” high end, carbon 27.5 bike like I had planned and it was sweet, but could not compare to the 26” Now I know Im comparing 2 different brands and models, but wow! I was pretty much sold on 27.5 because they all felt great and much closer to the feel of the 26. Now a 26” bike (albeit a very nice one) just spread the gap…I may be going back to 26er status. I don’t care if its popular or not, I just loved that ride!

  28. #128
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    Reply

    Quicker steering NOPE
    Quicker acceleration NOPE
    Easier to pedal kick WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?
    Easier to build short chain stay frames, WHO CARES
    Axle closer to ground requires less lean angle to turn same arc JUST MORE PEDAL STRIKES
    Fits wider range of riders SO?
    Fits easier onto bike racks, NOPE
    Fits easier into car or trunk NOPE
    Wheels are lighter and stronger, ONLY FOR DH
    Small diameter brake rotors provide plenty of stopping power (less weight = lower rotating mass) NOT AN ISSUE
    Strong second hand market for parts, ??

    These things will matter to some more than others. If you think you need more roll over then by all means ride a bigger wheel. More 26er crap for me![/QUOTE]

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadgoat View Post
    Quicker steering NOPE
    Quicker acceleration NOPE
    Easier to pedal kick WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?
    Easier to build short chain stay frames, WHO CARES
    Axle closer to ground requires less lean angle to turn same arc JUST MORE PEDAL STRIKES
    Fits wider range of riders SO?
    Fits easier onto bike racks, NOPE
    Fits easier into car or trunk NOPE
    Wheels are lighter and stronger, ONLY FOR DH
    Small diameter brake rotors provide plenty of stopping power (less weight = lower rotating mass) NOT AN ISSUE
    Strong second hand market for parts, ??

    These things will matter to some more than others. If you think you need more roll over then by all means ride a bigger wheel. More 26er crap for me!
    So you don't know what a pedal kick is but you have a strong opinion of wheel sizes... Interesting.

    Pedal strikes have more to do with BB height than axle height. There is a difference.
    The leg bone's connected to the Cash Bone!

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    What the Hell?!?! there's other sizes than 26 inch, when did this happen?
    About the same time all wheels smaller than 27.5" stopped turning.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    What the Hell?!?! there's other sizes than 26 inch, when did this happen?
    Its like we're in a parallel universe or something.

  32. #132
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    Just came back from the LBS. Went in looking for a new rear tire for my 26'r. They had TWO 26" mtb tires in stock. TWO!! All the others were 29'rs!!

    Now, I know a bunch of knee-jerk reactions would be to respond "go to another LBS". This isn't the case. The shop is cool and can have whatever you want ordered & in stock in a few days.

    I asked why only 2 26" tires in stock, their response was most of the high end bikes being sold are 29'rs. Okay I get that. Those who already run 26" are part of club and/or sponsored and get their tires direct for cheap (from Maxxis, etc.). Okay. I get that too.

    What I really think is contributing to the "outdating" of the 26" bike are manufacturers. Its new, buy it! The sales floors of decent mtbs are 80-90% 29'rs. If you haven't bought a new complete bike in the last 3-4 years, the technology in frame design, components, and shocks has changed TREMENDOUSLY. If you've been on a 26" bike since 2009 and then rode a 2014 29'r, you'd be blown away by the new technology but you'd mistakenly contribute all the progress to the bike being a 29'r. Anyway, that's my $.02. I think this contributes to the situation. FWIW, I've ridden a 29'r a bunch of times and the wheel size wasn't enough to make me reconsider. I'm currently riding a 2 week old new 26" dualie which I believe is the best bike I've ever ridden in my life--and isn't that the point? Ride what you brought, yes. But if you buy any new bike, shouldn't it be the best you've ever ridden?

    Ride happy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    Just came back from the LBS. Went in looking for a new rear tire for my 26'r. They had TWO 26" mtb tires in stock. TWO!! All the others were 29'rs!!

    Now, I know a bunch of knee-jerk reactions would be to respond "go to another LBS". This isn't the case. The shop is cool and can have whatever you want ordered & in stock in a few days.

    I asked why only 2 26" tires in stock, their response was most of the high end bikes being sold are 29'rs. Okay I get that. Those who already run 26" are part of club and/or sponsored and get their tires direct for cheap (from Maxxis, etc.). Okay. I get that too.

    What I really think is contributing to the "outdating" of the 26" bike are manufacturers. Its new, buy it! The sales floors of decent mtbs are 80-90% 29'rs. If you haven't bought a new complete bike in the last 3-4 years, the technology in frame design, components, and shocks has changed TREMENDOUSLY. If you've been on a 26" bike since 2009 and then rode a 2014 29'r, you'd be blown away by the new technology but you'd mistakenly contribute all the progress to the bike being a 29'r. Anyway, that's my $.02. I think this contributes to the situation. FWIW, I've ridden a 29'r a bunch of times and the wheel size wasn't enough to make me reconsider. I'm currently riding a 2 week old new 26" dualie which I believe is the best bike I've ever ridden in my life--and isn't that the point? Ride what you brought, yes. But if you buy any new bike, shouldn't it be the best you've ever ridden?

    Ride happy!
    Stuff hasn't changed much since 2009. That's part of why the industry has to prop up sales with these new wheel sizes. Many, many people are just fine on 2009 bikes or even older.

  34. #134
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    While you guys are in here beating dead horses, lets talk about clips vs flats.
    Lone biker of the apocalypse.

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    I love my Kona Unit and it's a 29er but if I could have the choice between having my unit built up as it currently is or have my Stumpjumper HT 26er back. I would take my stumpy back. I loved that bike too bad it was stolen! I have been more curious about 650B than 29ers. I decided to go with a 29er but still thinking of getting a Surly 1x1 frame and building it up. I want to demo a 650b though.

    I don't believe that any size is better than the other. Just better for rider preference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by waffleBeast View Post
    While you guys are in here beating dead horses, lets talk about clips vs flats.
    I like 'em both, but I'm rather particular about chain lube. DuMonde Tech, FTW!

  37. #137
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    How about thumb shifters vs triggers? DH vs XC? Blonde vs brunette? Republican vs democrat? Or maybe we could finally settle the score on how much cooler mountain bikers are than those drugged up lycra loving roadies?

  38. #138
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    I dont know about you guys, but I plan to have one of every size. I have a FS 26er, a hardtail 26er, a hardtail carbon 29er, and ill build up a carbon 27.5" next year with some taxes and whatnot. I say they all have their place. I actually think the fun factor on a 26er is great, those bikes like to jump and be tossed around. The 29er is fun in its own way because it just bulldozes over stuff...its fast and going fast is fun. The 27.5 should combine a little of both and thats good too. I am sad to see companies abandoning the 26er but Ill just stockpile parts for mine and they will run forever. Ride on!
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -

  39. #139
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    Went out for a ride earlier and I must say, I really like my 26er. I'm finally dialed in with the comfort, the wheels, and I couldn't be happier.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie88 View Post
    Went out for a ride earlier and I must say, I really like my 26er. I'm finally dialed in with the comfort, the wheels, and I couldn't be happier.
    I should have lubed my chain. Nothing like a dry drivetrain to turn an otherwise GREAT experience into one that borders on mediocre.

    Did I mention that DuMonde Tech is probably the best lube for my particular riding conditions?

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tres Bottelas View Post
    I should have lubed my chain. Nothing like a dry drivetrain to turn an otherwise GREAT experience into one that borders on mediocre.

    Did I mention that DuMonde Tech is probably the best lube for my particular riding conditions?
    Better than White Lightning?

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie88 View Post
    Better than White Lightning?
    Yes. It does not clump, and sheds really well. I haven't cleaned a chain in a very long time, and have gotten much longer life from my drivetrain as a result. I usually mix half yellow (lite) and half blue (original), but you can fine tune the ratios for your conditions. During the winter, I will usually go with a little more blue.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tres Bottelas View Post
    Yes. It does not clump, and sheds really well. I haven't cleaned a chain in a very long time, and have gotten much longer life from my drivetrain as a result. I usually mix half yellow (lite) and half blue (original), but you can fine tune the ratios for your conditions. During the winter, I will usually go with a little more blue.
    I'll have to give it a try after I use up what I have. I'm going to send a bottle of the lite to my brother out in AZ. It says the lite is good for dry climates.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie88 View Post
    I'll have to give it a try after I use up what I have. I'm going to send a bottle of the lite to my brother out in AZ. It says the lite is good for dry climates.
    It is, but it doesn't last long. The trade-off is that everything stays clean.

  45. #145
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    This thread lost all of its dumb nastiness so... Du Monde Tech = Catpiss! Real honchos ride Rock n' Roll Lube!
    Lone biker of the apocalypse.

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by CannondaleF9 View Post
    You're just telling yourself this over and over again to make yourself believe it. 650B is the new 26, 29" is in a class of its own. I bet in 2016 there will be no 26" wheeled bike left (except for in Walmart and Kmart). 650B is only 1" bigger in diameter, it isn't that much bigger than a 26" and if you rode on you couldn't tell the difference.

    EDIT: Fat Bikes are still 26", so theoretically 26" will live on.
    I had the same perception with my XTC 26er when I saw the new Giant XTC 27.5 @ Sea Otter. I compared side by side and they almost the same size. I'm running Conti SS 2.2 front and 2.0 on my 26er and I could hardly tell the difference. I remember thinking in my head, there's no way the 27.5 can perform so much better that my 26er. Fast forward I demoed 2014 Giant XTC team 0 27.5 from Giant and I was blown away how fast it was. it turns and accelerate like a 26 but it rolls over rocks & roots like a 29. Oh by the way her name was Nancy and I don't mind riding her again.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by 08_Yukon hard tail View Post
    I had the same perception with my XTC 26er when I saw the new Giant XTC 27.5 @ Sea Otter. I compared side by side and they almost the same size. I'm running Conti SS 2.2 front and 2.0 on my 26er and I could hardly tell the difference. I remember thinking in my head, there's no way the 27.5 can perform so much better that my 26er. Fast forward I demoed 2014 Giant XTC team 0 27.5 from Giant and I was blown away how fast it was. it turns and accelerate like a 26 but it rolls over rocks & roots like a 29. Oh by the way her name was Nancy and I don't mind riding her again.
    Was there any difference between the two models, other than slightly bigger wheels?

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tres Bottelas View Post
    Was there any difference between the two models, other than slightly bigger wheels?
    Nancy (2014 Giant XTC Team 0)
    Full carbon frame
    XX1 drive train
    Giant carbon wheels
    I weight her @ 20.8 pounds

    My bike 08 XTC AO
    Xtr drive train
    Easton wheelset etc.etc.
    Weight 21 pounds flat

    They about even in weight but I find 27.5 ride so much faster and better in every way.
    I also own a 29er composite 0.

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by 08_Yukon hard tail View Post
    Nancy (2014 Giant XTC Team 0)
    Full carbon frame
    XX1 drive train
    Giant carbon wheels
    I weight her @ 20.8 pounds

    My bike 08 XTC AO
    Xtr drive train
    Easton wheelset etc.etc.
    Weight 21 pounds flat

    They about even in weight but I find 27.5 ride so much faster and better in every way.
    I also own a 29er composite 0.
    Thanks.

  50. #150
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    Re: The Good Ol' 26er?

    Quote Originally Posted by 08_Yukon hard tail View Post
    Nancy (2014 Giant XTC Team 0)
    Full carbon frame
    XX1 drive train
    Giant carbon wheels
    I weight her @ 20.8 pounds

    My bike 08 XTC AO
    Xtr drive train
    Easton wheelset etc.etc.
    Weight 21 pounds flat

    They about even in weight but I find 27.5 ride so much faster and better in every way.
    I also own a 29er composite 0.
    Pretty awesome stable you have. How does your 9er ride compared to the 27.5 rig?

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvrbreeze View Post
    Has anyone else found that amid all the wheel size debates the good old 26er is still a heck of alot of fun?
    All I have ridden is 26 and I love it. I pay no attention to wheel sizes. You can ride over anything on a 26 with the right skill level. I may be old school (started mtb in 1992) but I feel like 29er is almost cheating. Less agility than 26 and better over bumps. It doesn't sound challenging to me. Disclaimer: Never ridden a 29er.

    Maybe I'm intolerable of change, I don't know.

  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin_Federline View Post
    Pretty awesome stable you have. How does your 9er ride compared to the 27.5 rig?
    29er is very stable and fast once you get it rolling but the 27.5 is more nimble with explosive acceleration. You can do late braking on switchbacks and be able to turn quickly. My 29er weights @21.4 setup 1x10.

  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackitout View Post
    All I have ridden is 26 and I love it. I pay no attention to wheel sizes. You can ride over anything on a 26 with the right skill level. I may be old school (started mtb in 1992) but I feel like 29er is almost cheating. Less agility than 26 and better over bumps. It doesn't sound challenging to me. Disclaimer: Never ridden a 29er.

    Maybe I'm intolerable of change, I don't know.
    29'ers are challenging in their own way.
    I like both wheel sizes for different things.

  54. #154
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    Re: The Good Ol' 26er?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackitout View Post
    All I have ridden is 26 and I love it. I pay no attention to wheel sizes. You can ride over anything on a 26 with the right skill level. I may be old school (started mtb in 1992) but I feel like 29er is almost cheating. Less agility than 26 and better over bumps. It doesn't sound challenging to me. Disclaimer: Never ridden a 29er.

    Maybe I'm intolerable of change, I don't know.
    Do you ride rigid singlespeed? Because gears and suspension can also be considered cheating depending on who you ask...

  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8iking VIIking View Post
    Do you ride rigid singlespeed? Because gears and suspension can also be considered cheating depending on who you ask...
    I don't think 29er's are cheating, I think they are a hinderance for technical riding!!!

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    I don't think 29er's are cheating, I think they are a hinderance for technical riding!!!
    Which again you are wrong. Santa Cruz Tallboy 29er proves itself on Vancouver trail | Bike Magic this article and video proves that 29ers are as capable as 26ers on technical trails.

  57. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by CannondaleF9 View Post
    Which again you are wrong. Santa Cruz Tallboy 29er proves itself on Vancouver trail | Bike Magic this article and video proves that 29ers are as capable as 26ers on technical trails.
    Finally! There's proof!!!

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8iking VIIking View Post
    Do you ride rigid singlespeed? Because gears and suspension can also be considered cheating depending on who you ask...
    This is a good point. I haven't ridden rigid single speed in a very long time. Part of the fun for me is finding ways over technical parts on my lowly 26 inch wheels.

  59. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by CannondaleF9 View Post
    Which again you are wrong. Santa Cruz Tallboy 29er proves itself on Vancouver trail | Bike Magic this article and video proves that 29ers are as capable as 26ers on technical trails.
    Why does everybody trying to ride tech on a 29er look like they are dancing on stilts....?



    Tallboy's have been on heavy discount / closeut for many months.....I guess they aren't as popular as you would like us to believe.

  60. #160
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    The Good Ol' 26er?

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    Why does everybody trying to ride tech on a 29er look like they are dancing on stilts....?
    Probably because they're "trying."

    Do or do not do. There is no try.

  61. #161
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    Re: The Good Ol' 26er?

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    Why does everybody trying to ride tech on a 29er look like they are dancing on stilts....?



    Tallboy's have been on heavy discount / closeut for many months.....I guess they aren't as popular as you would like us to believe.
    They're popular enough that SC made a Tallboy 2....maybe that's why the originals are on closeout?

    BTW, did you see that the big S is abandoning ship on 26? How many tears were shed when you heard that news?

  62. #162
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    You'll never guess what size wheel this is :P

    <iframe width="853" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/CRK2tHrA-3Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post

    Tallboy's have been on heavy discount / closeut for many months.....I guess they aren't as popular as you would like us to believe.
    Well they still make Tallboys. The same can't be said for most Specialized, Trek, Cannondale, and Scott 26ers save the basic hardtails and a few Freeride and Downhill bikes.

  64. #164
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    You guys are really stretching on this technical riding thing. I can tell you, every time I've ridden with people on 29ers, I've very clearly outridden them, both climbing and decending. I was riding, while they were walking - especially on the climbs. These are experienced riders too.

  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    You guys are really stretching on this technical riding thing. I can tell you, every time I've ridden with people on 29ers, I've very clearly outridden them, both climbing and decending. I was riding, while they were walking - especially on the climbs. These are experienced riders too.
    That's just a lie. I rode both a 26er and a 29er on the same technical climb. I made it on my 29er and once because of a bad line choice I had to walk my 26er but every time I rode my 29er up it I made it.

  66. #166
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    I owned a Niner Air 9 for a little over 18 months. I recently sold it because I just could not come to grips with the way the bike handled. I think it's mostly due to getting my weight in the right position on the bike. For this reason, I never saw that the 29 was any faster than my 26, but I did see that I was burning more energy riding the 29 when compared to the 26.

    A 27.5 Anthem has replaced the Niner. I still have my 2003 HT 26" bike and ride it regularly.
    2015 Kona JTS
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  67. #167
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    This 26, 27.5, 29 is way too confusing for me. I can't make up my mind so I'm going to wait until they come out with the 28 or 28 1/4. This will make everything ok in the bike world.

  68. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by CannondaleF9 View Post
    That's just a lie. I rode both a 26er and a 29er on the same technical climb. I made it on my 29er and once because of a bad line choice I had to walk my 26er but every time I rode my 29er up it I made it.
    Cool man. How much rear suspension travel do you have?

    I have almost 7.5" of very active travel with no pedal feedback, and very grippy tires. Trust me, I can out climb you and any 29er's I come across.

  69. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    Cool man. How much rear suspension travel do you have?

    I have almost 7.5" of very active travel with no pedal feedback, and very grippy tires. Trust me, I can out climb you and any 29er's I come across.
    You owe me a monitor. I just spit beer all over it.

    Maybe you could yell upstairs and ask Mom for the money.

  70. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    Cool man. How much rear suspension travel do you have?

    I have almost 7.5" of very active travel with no pedal feedback, and very grippy tires. Trust me, I can out climb you and any 29er's I come across.
    Well I have a 100mm hardtail with very grippy tyres. I could outclimb you with my hardtail and any other 10 or 11 speed 29er out there.

  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddie88 View Post
    this 26, 27.5, 29 is way too confusing for me. I can't make up my mind so i'm going to wait until they come out with the 28 or 28 1/4. This will make everything ok in the bike world.
    brilliant!
    2015 Kona JTS
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  72. #172
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    Ride a Turner Burner 26. It handles great and love it. But most of my friends leave me in the dust on their 29ers, they are faster. Can't see how at 27b is faster than a 29er but I can see how it would out handle it in really curvy terrain.
    agmtb

  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    You guys are really stretching on this technical riding thing. I can tell you, every time I've ridden with people on 29ers, I've very clearly outridden them, both climbing and decending. I was riding, while they were walking - especially on the climbs. These are experienced riders too.
    What do you consider to be technical anyhow? I rode most of last season on a 29er, raced BME on it and it never really hindered my ability to go where I wanted. I didn't care for how it jumped too much, and really would have like more travel, but I rode everything on that that I can on my 26... If there's a move I can't conquer, 99% chance that has to do with my mental state and ability, and about 1% or less has to do with the wheel size.

    I believe people tend to put too much stock in wheel size, and not enough their own ability. It's not the wheel size, it's the rider....
    Airborne Flight Crew

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  74. #174
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    Can somebody please remind me how to unsubscribe from a thread?

  75. #175
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    Re: The Good Ol' 26er?

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    Cool man. How much rear suspension travel do you have?

    I have almost 7.5" of very active travel with no pedal feedback, and very grippy tires. Trust me, I can out climb you and any 29er's I come across.
    Say you came across your evil twin (or in your case, good twin), you're saying you could outclimb him if he was on....for instance....an uber light carbon FS 29er? You can't be serious....

  76. #176
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    And you never answered my question turbodong, how much did you cry when your boy Mikey S decided to pull the plug on 26?

  77. #177
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    Both of my bikes are 26'ers, but I am not pushing back against the 650B revolution. My next bike is likely to be a 650B and I won't cry about it.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8iking VIIking View Post
    Say you came across your evil twin (or in your case, good twin), you're saying you could outclimb him if he was on....for instance....an uber light carbon FS 29er? You can't be serious....

  79. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by CannondaleF9 View Post
    Well I have a 100mm hardtail with very grippy tyres. I could outclimb you with my hardtail and any other 10 or 11 speed 29er out there.
    Maybe on a dirt road, but not on anything remotely technical.

  80. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott forty G. View Post
    You'll never guess what size wheel this is :P

    <iframe width="853" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/CRK2tHrA-3Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    lol, I can tell exactly what size wheel that is. It's not quite as big as a 29'er and not quite as nimble as a 26".

  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie88 View Post
    This 26, 27.5, 29 is way too confusing for me. I can't make up my mind so I'm going to wait until they come out with the 28 or 28 1/4. This will make everything ok in the bike world.
    You will get your wish when they finally make a high volume 27.5" tire.

  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    Cool man. How much rear suspension travel do you have?

    I have almost 7.5" of very active travel with no pedal feedback, and very grippy tires. Trust me, I can out climb you and any 29er's I come across.
    With just a single sentence, you have rendered the previous 872 posts completely useless.

    Next time throw in a little dirt roadie humor if you want people to laugh WITH you, instead of at you.

  83. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Both of my bikes are 26'ers, but I am not pushing back against the 650B revolution. My next bike is likely to be a 650B and I won't cry about it.
    Revolution? That just means it went full circle, doesn't it?

  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    Cool man. How much rear suspension travel do you have?

    I have almost 7.5" of very active travel with no pedal feedback, and very grippy tires. Trust me, I can out climb you and any 29er's I come across.
    He's fast, way faster than you. Way faster than you and you too.
    "...when I stand to climb I'm like the Hulk rowing the USS Badass up the Kickass River."
    -michaelscott

  85. #185
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    You should be a pro xc racer turdo, or a pro downhiller for that matter, since you're the best at both!

  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tres Bottelas View Post
    With just a single sentence, you have rendered the previous 872 posts completely useless.

    Next time throw in a little dirt roadie humor if you want people to laugh WITH you, instead of at you.
    Not sure you're following my point. All I'm saying is that my setup is massively superior for technical climbing (and decending) vs. the large majority of 29er's out on the trails. While I am a very good climber, I'm only at a moderate fitness level currently. Big part of it is the bike.

    Futhermore, people will argue that you can setup 29er like my bike or any all mountain 26", and that's really the difference. But you can't really.

    It's tough to get anything in a 29er with over 5" of travel, there's only a few models and they are pretty new and EXPENSIVE. I paid $350 (used) for my frame several years ago. Trust me, there is a pretty big difference between 4.5" of travel and 7.5".....like 3".

    There is a ten percent weight difference for the larger 29er wheels vs. 26". What is borderline uncomfortable to pedal uphill on a 26" AM bike with an agressive tire/rim setup, becomes fully uncomfortable on a 29er. You're talking about nearly a full pound heavier in the wheels on the 29er, this costs you not only aceleration but also the nimbleness which is extremely important for technical cimbing.

    So, the 29er rolls over stuff better? Great. But there is a LONG list of reasons why VAST majority of 29er's are short travel FS or HT, with nearly semi-slick tires. Better rollover simply isn't enough to let them keep up with a 26" trail/AM bike on technical terrain, including climbing.

  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    Cool man. How much rear suspension travel do you have?

    I have almost 7.5" of very active travel with no pedal feedback, and very grippy tires. Trust me, I can out climb you and any 29er's I come across.
    you must get laid a lot bro

    as for Tres Bottelas, ignore him (or her, not sure of gender) as you probably know yourself, a small penis has many a negative consquence in attitude

  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinGT View Post
    The sad thing about the whole wheel size argument is how the bike industry is using what they shoved down our throats as BENEFITS of 29ers as the reasons 29ers are now obsolete.


    Watching videos of "industry reps" telling us that 650b wheels are 'quicker, lighter, and stronger' than those big, bulky unwieldy 29ers they sold us 2 years ago while barely able to keep from smirking is a joke.

    Oh, and how much easier is it to design frames around 650b for small riders? Really? The same small riders you spent years convincing would be fine on a bike with 29" stand over and a -25 deg stem?

    And people believed every word.../boggle
    Isn't that the truth. I'm glad I still have all my vintage 26" bikes.
    A garage full of steel frames means happiness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle View Post
    you must get laid a lot bro

    as for Tres Bottelas, ignore him (or her, not sure of gender) as you probably know yourself, a small penis has many a negative consquence in attitude
    At least there was humor in that post of his you quoted. < one big grin >

    Fo, the thought of you imagining my gender and my nethers is somewhere between a compliment and flat out creepy.

  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    I believe people tend to put too much stock in wheel size, and not enough their own ability. It's not the wheel size, it's the rider....
    it's that negative thinking that will preclude your from ever being offered a job at Mountain Bike Action

  91. #191
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    Could be a new category, PRO-X-Technical-C-Down-Enduro-Hill-Technical where he could race and destroy everyone at once....
    Airborne Flight Crew

    Jerry Hazard – website

  92. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    Could be a new category, PRO-X-Technical-C-Down-Enduro-Hill-Technical where he could race and destroy everyone at once....
    I didn't say I can beat everyone, just most normal people on 29er's on technical terrain. But it's not a contest. Thanks.

  93. #193
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    Re: The Good Ol' 26er?

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    I didn't say I can beat everyone, just most normal people on 29er's on technical terrain. But it's not a contest. Thanks.
    Heh, let's see what you said. Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    Trust me, I can out climb you and any 29er's I come across.
    So is it "most normal people" or "any"?

  94. #194
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    You can beat people, but it's not a contest... how's that work? (sorry, just having fun)

    Do you have an example of what your technical terrain is?
    Airborne Flight Crew

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  95. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by 802spokestoke View Post
    But Kona and Santa Cruz are pushing up production on the next round of tweeners? Also, Gwinn has been doing some of the cup on a 7ish inch travel 650b.

    I think Santa Cruz Syndicate is the only team running 26ers exclusively. Gwinn runs a 650b, but with no tire it's more like a 26er.

  96. #196
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    Re: The Good Ol' 26er?

    Quote Originally Posted by MOJO K View Post
    I think Santa Cruz Syndicate is the only team running 26ers exclusively. Gwinn runs a 650b, but with no tire it's more like a 26er.
    Ratboy and Peaty are on 650b V10...
    Santa Cruz V10 27.5 Wheels Prototype

  97. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    You can beat people, but it's not a contest... how's that work?
    It's called STRAVA!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Heh, let's see what you said. Exactly.

    So is it "most normal people" or "any"?
    "any 29er's that I come across".

    Most (all) the really good technical riders I see out on the trails in my area are on 26".

  99. #199
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    Can we throw some clipless/flats debate into this equation too? 'Cuz I think we all agree that clipless is cheating and most/all/any/some flats riders' technical abilities will surely be better than your pet squirrel's?

  100. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    Maybe on a dirt road, but not on anything remotely technical.
    I can out climb you on any surface.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbodog View Post
    Not sure you're following my point. All I'm saying is that my setup is massively superior for technical climbing (and decending) vs. the large majority of 29er's out on the trails. While I am a very good climber, I'm only at a moderate fitness level currently. Big part of it is the bike.

    Futhermore, people will argue that you can setup 29er like my bike or any all mountain 26", and that's really the difference. But you can't really.

    It's tough to get anything in a 29er with over 5" of travel, there's only a few models and they are pretty new and EXPENSIVE. I paid $350 (used) for my frame several years ago. Trust me, there is a pretty big difference between 4.5" of travel and 7.5".....like 3".

    There is a ten percent weight difference for the larger 29er wheels vs. 26". What is borderline uncomfortable to pedal uphill on a 26" AM bike with an agressive tire/rim setup, becomes fully uncomfortable on a 29er. You're talking about nearly a full pound heavier in the wheels on the 29er, this costs you not only aceleration but also the nimbleness which is extremely important for technical cimbing.

    So, the 29er rolls over stuff better? Great. But there is a LONG list of reasons why VAST majority of 29er's are short travel FS or HT, with nearly semi-slick tires. Better rollover simply isn't enough to let them keep up with a 26" trail/AM bike on technical terrain, including climbing.
    I'm sorry to tell you this (not) but you are the biggest idiot on this site. Only a moron would be led to think that a full blown downhill bike is easier to climb than a hardtail. I mean come on, a non lockout heavy full suspension bike versus a lightweight bike designed for climbing would see the hardtail as the winner no matter the wheel size (but 29ers rollover stuff better so it will still be a better technical climber because it will have less junk to avoid on the trail).
    You might want to rethink your theories now.

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