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  1. #1
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    Just a few more....

    hope you enjoyed the pics!
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  2. #2
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    A different view

    We headed out Friday afternoon to a place nearby that is popular for winter riding. This time we followed some interesting trials trails. The moto trials guys have a great network - all official on BLM land. The loops consist of entry level fun stuff to world class black diamond routes. Andy descended one of the climbing routes and here are just a few pics. Some of the trials trails look faint, but signs were there routing all of them.

    Even more interesting was the pack of hikers we ran into that tipped us off to some of the routes. We tipped them off on an old faint road leading to some more interesting areas in return. Nice group of people to talk to.
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  3. #3
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    Thanks again Matt...definitely a great ride.


  4. #4
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    Where, where?

    Given that it is BLM land and the terrain, that narrows it down quite a bit, but where exactly was this ride, it looks great.
    Disclaimer: ComCycle USA

  5. #5
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    New Mexico, that's all I can say

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDad
    Given that it is BLM land and the terrain, that narrows it down quite a bit, but where exactly was this ride, it looks great.
    Rules of the forum: Never ask if the poster ain't telling. ;-)

  7. #7
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    Was it windy?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyN
    New Mexico, that's all I can say
    Somewhere in NM? I know I've seen this butte before...

    Looks like some great riding.

    Bruce
    Slow-core. -.. .-. .. -. -.- .... --- -- . -... .-. . .--

  8. #8
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    Really

    where are these "rules" posted?
    I may not be as good as I once was.
    But I'm as good once, as I ever was.
    Toby Keith

  9. #9
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    The poster can always refuse to disclose locations so what's the harm in asking? Besides, are there any mtbers who do not want new places to ride? I thought that was one of the benefits of these message boards. The more riders who become aware of places to ride means more will help in maintaining them, protecting access to them and yes riding them! It's selfish and harmful to the cause to conceal locations. They will be discovered anyway.

  10. #10
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    Silly puppy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog
    It's selfish and harmful to the cause to conceal locations. .
    Yeah, I must be a real a$$hole for taking the time to share my pics. Damn I REALLY am selfish.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pain Freak
    where are these "rules" posted?
    Francois posted them right near that rock in the first picture.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog
    It's selfish and harmful to the cause to conceal locations.
    i see selfish is you not post any like timo. timo post many good foto and story. i see none of this from true selfish. some take and not give that is selfish.

    raimondas

  13. #13
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    Thanks for sharing. Looks like a beautiful day to be out. Trials is insane fun to watch. It's amazing what pro level guys can do on a motorcycle....or bike for that matter.

  14. #14
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    Sh*t MT,

    Another reason for me to really dislike you. I'm here in Mighty Mo with mud up to my arse and there you are -- all skinny and fast -- riding trail. Davis is off on a cruise, all the other guys are MIA and I'm wishing I had something dry to ride. Guess it's another fixie ride with all the crazy KC drivers.

    Yeah, you're selfish for riding trail when I can't. But, please, more photos. I live vicariously through you. Tell that wife of yours howdy.

  15. #15
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    selfish ba$tard

    Quote Originally Posted by Timo
    Yeah, I must be a real a$$hole for taking the time to share my pics. Damn I REALLY am selfish.

    You are selfish. Take them back, NOW!!!

    I'll give up the goods. The location is a little northwest of here

    I'd be tempted to find this on my own but from the looks of your pictures, I'd lose the trail in no time. Oh well, that's part of the ride anyways.

    bruce
    Slow-core. -.. .-. .. -. -.- .... --- -- . -... .-. . .--

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Widebody
    Sh*t MT,

    Another reason for me to really dislike you. I'm here in Mighty Mo with mud up to my arse and there you are -- all skinny and fast -- riding trail. Davis is off on a cruise, all the other guys are MIA and I'm wishing I had something dry to ride. Guess it's another fixie ride with all the crazy KC drivers.

    Yeah, you're selfish for riding trail when I can't. But, please, more photos. I live vicariously through you. Tell that wife of yours howdy.
    Heyya Scott -

    Fixie ride sounds fun, but you might want to try that over in JoCo where the roads at least have shoulders! Saw pics of the mud...at least on the TV...damn really wet over your way.

    Davis on a cruise....how quaint. :-)

    M

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by notaknob
    You are selfish. Take them back, NOW!!!I'd be tempted to find this on my own but from the looks of your pictures, I'd lose the trail in no time. Oh well, that's part of the ride anyways.

    bruce
    Hey Bruce -

    You'd have no trouble finding your route through there....signs are everywhere. Somehow I didn't get pictures of the signs...but AndyN has one he might share with us. The trick for this, however, is finding the route to the top....

    M

  18. #18
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    I apologize for not acknowledging your tremendous contributions to this site by sharing pictures of your outstanding trails and rides. However that was not my point but if you need some more validation just let me know. I guess you just like to tease us with your pictures and then not share the trail locations. Kind of like a little kid who shows all the other kids his bag of candy but won't share any. That's your right of course. Enjoy riding your secret trails. If you're ever in SoCal let me know and I will tell you about some great places to ride and tell you where you can get maps. I keep no secret trail locations. That would be selfish.

  19. #19
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    I was prepared for the holiday break with all the snow so I could go crosscountry skiing and then what happens? the temps climb into the low 40's and there's not enough left to skate on. then you post some sweet looking trails and sprinkle salt into "the wound" oh well, at least the days are getting longer.

    do a lap for me would you?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timo
    Hey Bruce -

    You'd have no trouble finding your route through there....signs are everywhere. Somehow I didn't get pictures of the signs...but AndyN has one he might share with us. The trick for this, however, is finding the route to the top....

    M
    I'm planning on heading out there now. If I'm going to be doing bushwacking, I'd rather do it alone so as to not embarrass myself in front of others.

    Bruce
    Slow-core. -.. .-. .. -. -.- .... --- -- . -... .-. . .--

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog
    Kind of like a little kid who shows all the other kids his bag of candy but won't share any.
    Merry Christmas and have a Happy New Year! Hopefully your anger towards me will eventually subside. But if you choose to continue to paint me that way, based on a few lines found on the internet, then it is you choice.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeine Powered
    I was prepared for the holiday break with all the snow so I could go crosscountry skiing and then what happens? the temps climb into the low 40's and there's not enough left to skate on. then you post some sweet looking trails and sprinkle salt into "the wound" oh well, at least the days are getting longer.

    do a lap for me would you?
    Hey will do....but I am jonesing for some x-c skiing myself. And if we don't get the snow soon enough, we'll be riding road in the summer when the shut down the forests. Better ride while I can. ;-)

  23. #23
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    Yeah Matt, Davis on a cruise. He signed up for Spin classes prior to going...he was afraid he'd put on 10 lbs while out there. I hope so...slow that boy down some. Tired of the arse whippings. Last week when we rode in the snow I was flogging myself and still couldn't keep his wheel.

    Glad you had a chance to ride. Believe or not, it wasn't trail but I enjoyed freaking the drivers out today. And it was nearly 60 here so I wore my speedo. WOOHOO!

  24. #24
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    Who's angry? You wouldn't like me when I'm angry! I only have a few lines on the internet to go by and those lines tell me that you won't share trail locations which I believe is selfish and contrary to one of the main functions of this site. If you don't like my conclusions about what you have said then do something to change my mind. Like I said, you have the right to conceal trails from anyone if you so choose but others have a right to make judgements based on what you say and do. It happens all the time. I'm always making ride invites and sharing trail info, just like those hikers you met on the trail. If you shared with them, why not fellow mtbers? Don't worry about me though. If I ever come out to the Albequerque area, I'll check out the trails on this site, find a good shop with a map and friendly info and probably see you on the trail. If you ever want info about some of the trails around here, I'll glad you give you all the info you want. And a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you too!

  25. #25
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    Smile Looks fantastic............

    Thanks for sharing the pictures, we had quite a bit of bc xc skiing from early Dec up till last week, we have had rain yesterday and today as well as unseasonbly warm weather. Your pictures make me want to ride!
    There are two paths you can go by but in the long run........

  26. #26
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    Thanks for the pics - the topography and weather look sensational (particularly compared to the pissing rain on top of snow we are currently experiencing).

    I am also of the "show, don't tell" mentality. Posting locations on the 'net is an invite for every Tony & Joey to ravage the local goods. Think I'm selfish? Show up at my place and I'll take you there and provide the beer afterward. But don't expect me to post exactly where it is.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair
    I am also of the "show, don't tell" mentality. Posting locations on the 'net is an invite for every Tony & Joey to ravage the local goods. Think I'm selfish? Show up at my place and I'll take you there and provide the beer afterward. But don't expect me to post exactly where it is.

    You hit the nail on the head with that reply.

    My feelings exactly.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog
    I guess you just like to tease us with your pictures and then not share the trail locations. Kind of like a little kid who shows all the other kids his bag of candy but won't share any.
    how old are you age not mature level?

  29. #29
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    I'm glad that the posters over on the Trail Reviews section and the many who post both pics and locations/trail names on the forums don't share your views on revealing trail info. I've used the Reviews section many times to find trails as I'm sure most mtbr members have. Thanks for the ride invite and beer offer. As I have stated it is your right to conceal trail info however useless such efforts may be. People do have the right to ask and to form opinions about the behavior of others. I believe it is selfish behavior to conceal trail info and arrogant to caution people not to even ask based on some unwritten rule. I would hope that you develop more trust in your fellow mtbr's to not trash the local trails. Happy New Year.

  30. #30
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    I believe I'm more mature than someone who adopts the identity of a 1970's TV character.

  31. #31
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    Andy Kaufman was funny. You're no Andy Kaufman.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog
    ... As I have stated it is your right to conceal trail info however useless such efforts may be...
    LOL, useless? Anyway, I do plenty to promote our sport and provide more trail opportunities for the public. Some rides have sensitive issues, such as crossing private land. I know those landowners would not approve of public postings that you advocate. Parking & off-trail riding are factors that could even come into play on BLM land. It is your right to form an opinion based on a couple sentences posted on the 'net, but that doesn't make it an informed opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog
    ... I would hope that you develop more trust in your fellow mtbr's to not trash the local trails.
    Don't be so naive. There are plenty of places struggling with crowded trails and blown out singletrack. More people means more trail braiding and more required maintenance, but the same handful of us will be doing it (the maintenance, that is).

    Happy new year.

  33. #33
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    Thanks for the pics and your opinion Timo. Both were appreciated.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by notaknob
    Somewhere in NM? I know I've seen this butte before...

    Looks like some great riding.

    Bruce
    Shiprock? Cabezon Peak?

  35. #35
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    Nice thanks. Being in NM narrows it down a bit. I can at least cross off the other lower 47 states. ;-)

  36. #36
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    This tread is sucking out some of the holiday spirit out of the air.

    Nice pictures, Timo.
    Some of my happiest memories in life took place on my bicycles. - Me

  37. #37
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    and there's so much more........

    to this huge area. North, south, west, and beyond. As mentioned, there are some sensitive land ownership issues, and there are always those geology guys digging up fossils and dinosaurs and such where you can't tread.

    WM is indeed great, but there's better out there if you're willing to explore. The former King Ranch is spectacular and you can ride from there all the way to cabezon and beyond......
    Don't hate me because I'm Ti

  38. #38
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    There may be unique situations for a particular trail that would be justifiable reasons for concealing locations. Lacking further info, I do not believe Timo was motivated by such reasons. Of all the ride posts I have read on this site, his was the first which did not reveal the location and on top of that, admonished people not to even ask. His motive seems to be simply "I know something you don't". Please refer to my kid with a bag of candy illustration. I've ridden on lots of trails which receive many recommendations on this site which are well taken care of by the users. Bootleg Canyon, San Juan trail, Fruita, Monarch Crest and many others. These locations may have problems but given the volume of riders on them, I'd say they're doing O.K. The more people who ride trails the more there are to work to maintain and ensure access to them assuming the trail is on public land. Private land is a whole different issue. I think you and Timo are too paranoid and should have more faith in us uninformed fellow mtbers.

  39. #39
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    Perhaps a bit ironic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timo
    We headed out Friday afternoon to a place nearby that is popular for winter riding. This time we followed some interesting trials trails. The moto trials guys have a great network - all official on BLM land. The loops consist of entry level fun stuff to world class black diamond routes. Andy descended one of the climbing routes and here are just a few pics. Some of the trials trails look faint, but signs were there routing all of them.

    Even more interesting was the pack of hikers we ran into that tipped us off to some of the routes. We tipped them off on an old faint road leading to some more interesting areas in return. Nice group of people to talk to.

    A thread that starts out praising good spirited give and take cooperation between bikers and hikers morphs into a bit of a biker fuss.

    Sweet and inspiring pics.

    FWIW, I find post surfing to be vicarious biking. If I can't be riding (work, blech), I can be thinking of riding. A bit of location context helps fill out the fantasy ride experience. I see awesome stunning pictures of riders "in Iceland west of [city name]," and I think "Wow!, I wish I could be there." Or some big tree trail shots that are "in the [name] forest off the Oregon coast," and I think "Someday I would love to take a trip there." The forum is like a virtual bike pictorial magazine to which I have a daily subscription.

    I don't think anyone was asking the precise whereabouts of the trailhead and routes - just a general "we rode here" comment would have probably have more than sufficed. It is testament to the quality of your pics and comments that folks yearned for more info on the trails.

    You give quite a bit of detail that it is a popular, official, signed trail network on BLM land with a variety of loop options from entry level to world class black diamond and is favored by moto trials guys. That's a very motivating sales pitch. You don't lose anything by adding "It's about [X] miles northwest of Albuquerque. No one is going to be able to sneak in, locate and despoil the trails based on that kind of general note. However, some stray MTBRer who might have occasion to wander through the ABQ zone one of these weekends might be inclined to ask a local for some more 411 if they know a bit about the area goods.

    I love spreading the word on my fave local trails, but I'm just a pimp that way

    Enough chatter from the likes of me. You do great things Timo - you can be as "selfish" as you wanna be, just keep the (Bike) Area 51 pics coming.

    -d-

  40. #40
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    Well, you are obviously free to think what you want, but don't jump to quick conclusions given scant information on which to base them. If Timo's posts are the first you've read with this show don't tell mentality then you haven't been reading Passion ride reports for very long.

    Fruita is a great example. The locals are constantly trying to educate people to keep their singletrack narrow and not be braiding, piling cheater stones, etc. Talk to them and hear the frustration - the popularity is both a blessing (economically) and a curse. Look at Prime Cut - it's 3' to 4' wide in places - I'm sure it didn't begin that way. What do you think some of those fine narrow trails will look like in 10 years? How about 20?

    I think it's safe for us to agree to disagree. My apologies for the significant thread hijack, but I think it's a worthy discussion.

  41. #41
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    Bs!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog
    There may be unique situations for a particular trail that would be justifiable reasons for concealing locations. Lacking further info, I do not believe Timo was motivated by such reasons.
    After an indepth analysis of these posts, I've had the following random thoughts:

    1. Timo's a troll. He just wants to entice people with drooling singletrack.
    2. Timo's a photoshop wizard. These pictures were composits of pictures other people had made. He really lives in North Dakota and NOT in the good part.
    3. Timo just didn't know where he was riding. He and his fellow riders were transported there blindfolded in black helicopters from Kirtland/Whitesands.
    4. homebrew.
    6. somthing???
    7. PROFIT!!!!
    Slow-core. -.. .-. .. -. -.- .... --- -- . -... .-. . .--

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair
    Well, you are obviously free to think what you want, but don't jump to quick conclusions given scant information on which to base them. If Timo's posts are the first you've read with this show don't tell mentality then you haven't been reading Passion ride reports for very long.
    i am think this maddog not read here long. hfly not tell secret trails of moab. others do not tell secret here.

  43. #43
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    I'm not sure how much time is adequate to draw conclusions from Passion reports but I've been reading them since July 2004. I based my conclusions on words written by Timo. I'm sure he's a great person and obviously posts great pictures of his rides which I and many others appreciate. In the area of sharing trail info however, and perhaps that aspect of his life alone, he is behaving in a selfish manner. I would say the same thing about my mother if it were true. I see no evidence to the contrary concerning this one area. Believe it or not, Timo's post is the first one I have read which did not disclose at least a general location or trail name. Perhaps I am not as well read as you.

    What you say about Fruita is true about every trail which receives a high number of riders. When places are publicized on the net and mtb publications trails get used and changed. The city and the shop, which is very good, promote the area as well. The damage or changes in the trails will happen and it brings benefits and problems for areas such as those. This is another reason why we should share trail info. The more trails available to ride will disperse the crowds and relieve the pressure on places like Fruita. This is progress and is good for all mtbrs.

  44. #44
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    We all have our secrets. Gee. I wonder what yours is?

  45. #45
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    Very well said. Nobody expects gps coordinates although I have seen them on a few threads. I like sharing trail info too. Bike Area 51 huh. Maybe Timo just wants to conceal the location of the alien ship crash landing. It must be near Roswell!

  46. #46
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    found it!!!

    OK, incase there was a trail access issue looming that was Timo's reasons for not sharing I pulled the information...
    Last edited by stiingya; 01-08-2006 at 11:59 AM.

  47. #47
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    I'm glad you guys "outed" Timo because he's a real dick. In fact, not so long ago four of us invaded his house and he took time off work to show us around and baby sit us for four days. This after going to the bike shop to pick up our bikes after they arrived via UPS, storing them in his house and helping us assemble/disassemble them. We loaded down his car with gear and bikes, drove the wheels off it and drank beer as he headed into work late at night and before sunrise to make up time on a project because he was spending his days with us. And then he was so dispassionate that he waited for our slow a$$e$ during day-long rides when he coulda been blazing the trails we were on. What a peckerhead, right?

    If he had reason to keep an area secret on a public, international web site, I'd say he did so for a very good reason. And knowing him the way I do, I'd say that's good enough for me.

    He'd probably have time to continue this stupid discussion if he weren't spending so much time fighting "the man" to maintain access to some of New Mexico's favorite trails. But he's just selfish that way.

  48. #48
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    Well I talked to someone at the Rio Puerco Field office, and they hadn't heard of anything concerning trail access for the San Ysidro Trials Area. He said he thought this area had been quite a successfull venture with great cooperation between users. So I think that as long as the mt. bikers are respectfull of the trails and trail users there shouldn't be any problems. I actually didn't see anyone out on the trails, though there were lots of motorcycle tracks, and then some mt. bike tracks and horse and foot prints. Must have had more users on Saturday, but Sunday afternoon was deserted!

    So again, here is the information.

    http://www.nm.blm.gov/recreation/alb...rails_area.htm

    I thought this was a truely wonderfull area to ride in. Quite alot of technically challenging section's. I ended up hike-a-biking several short techy climbs. As well as alot of the very sandy and rocky dry streambeds. If you were going down these they were great, but again trying to climb these was really hard! The coolest thing is that there are some "slickrock" sections that you can just ride around and play on that were just amazing! I ended up getting a pichflat and having to walk out next to a stream that lead back to the highway because of a pump issue. But it was totally amazing, very "primitive" trail sections going over the granit "slickrock". There were several times where it was difficult to locate the next trail marker. But no big deal, just needed to stop and look around for a second. You can't get lost since you can see the trails of White Mesa right across the highway. I think the parking lot for this area is just about right across the highway from where you drop down the dragons tail trail. Funny that there was so much secrecy about it since most people have probably been looking right at it everytime they rode white mesa!

    Anyway, I would strongly suggest getting out to these trails sometime. They were really cool!
    Thanks

  49. #49
    taxi mechanic
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    Quote Originally Posted by stiingya
    So again, here is the information.
    karma will get you for this i am sure.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by eebeedah
    karma will get you for this i am sure.
    That would be awsome!!! Cause after people experiance the sheer joy and exuberation they get from riding out there my karma should have me winning the lotto or an all expense paid trip to boulder city with unlimited shuttle runs or something!!!

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