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  1. #1
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    Cyclist shot just for the fun of it.

    http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/5390917/detail.html

    The more I look at it the madder I get.

    This is just one more nail in the coffin of getting people to commute to work. 4 miles, He rode 4 Miles.

    An excuse or not for people to get out of commuting is becoming more justified. The most common reaction I get from people when they find out i ride a bike to work is "You ride your bike on these streets".

    I met a guy on the trails (Blue River Park . . . aka BuRP) by my house this week; we got to talking and he said he'd never ride on these streets again. He was out there with his son and was very greatful for the trails so they had a place to ride.

    I'm not going to drive my bike to some place where I can ride my bike.

    By Friday Night I should have a bike up (Ghost Bike) at the site. In fact just a week before this a cyclist was run off the road (Drive Off) and ended up in the hospital . So that will be 2 by this weekend.

    It will be something like this.
    http://flickr.com/photos/bikeportland/tags/ghostbikemlkwygant/

    I guess the original is down or something. Does anybody know about this?
    http://www.ghostbike.org/

  2. #2
    DOH!
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    The shooter needs to fried to crispy goodness ASAP. Asshat. ...How much of a grasp on reality can a person have if a cure for boredom is killing someone in cold blood?

  3. #3
    yeah, uh............bikes
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    Wow, that's disturbing

    I'm speechless, i've been staring at my screen for the last 5 minutes trying to find words that convey the sick feeling I got after reading that article.

  4. #4
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    I don't know where you all have been ? This is the sick world I've been living in . M-Fer's at every turn.
    Yeah I gotta question. You got any excuses tonight Roy ? -Antonio Tarver

    There is room for it all, just ride what you like to on what you like to...that's freeriding. -rbn14



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evel Knievel
    I don't know where you all have been ? This is the sick world I've been living in . M-Fer's at every turn.
    "Killing for the fun of it" - Totally amazing. I'll gladly remain a naive country bumpkin.

  6. #6
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    That is how

    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaFish
    I'm speechless, i've been staring at my screen for the last 5 minutes trying to find words that convey the sick feeling I got after reading that article.
    I just felt after reading that.
    My beat box is bumpin' and my rhymes are fresh...
    www.grovelandtrailheads.org

  7. #7
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    That is awful. My heart goes out to his family and friends. I cannot believe that someone would shoot a person just for the fun of it. IMO the family should be able to kill the two that shot the cyclist. But that is just my opinion, I believe in "an eye for an eye."

  8. #8
    Lawyer Time! No Comment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair
    "Killing for the fun of it" - Totally amazing. I'll gladly remain a naive country bumpkin.
    I don't know if that's going to help you any. I grew up in the country as well, and most of my "friends" would entertain themselves (again, when "bored") by driving around in trucks and beating anyone they saw with bats. If there was someone on a bike, they'd hit them with their car for a laugh. Yeah, people are great.
    Nothing left to lose, & half mad.

  9. #9
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    Should receive a swift and painful end.

    Ever Seen Braveheart, The Disembowelment at the end is too compassionate for these F**Krs.

  10. #10
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    Omg..

    Shocking...and sad..


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  11. #11
    life is a barrel o'fun
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    I saw the title of this thread and thought, "I hope they mean more photos......"

    But there was no little camera icon

    Don't think I can bring myself to read the story. Hope that people understand, though, that it wasn't the biking; could've been in the supermarket, school, mall parking lot........if somebody wants to kill as a pasttime, they'll find somebody on or off a bike.
    "We sat outside the dentist, tooting a horn on the guy's bike."-overheard in the Underground

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by protolith
    Ever Seen Braveheart, The Disembowelment at the end is too compassionate for these F**Krs.
    That would be too quick. I personally like to see sick SOB's like this wheeled. Drag it out a few days. Know what I mean? I HATE people like this. NO respect for their fellow man!

  13. #13
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    Originally

    Quote Originally Posted by Christine
    I saw the title of this thread and thought, "I hope they mean more photos......"

    But there was no little camera icon

    Don't think I can bring myself to read the story. Hope that people understand, though, that it wasn't the biking; could've been in the supermarket, school, mall parking lot........if somebody wants to kill as a pasttime, they'll find somebody on or off a bike.
    As the story goes the killers originally were going to kill a girl walking down the street, when they saw the cyclist. The cyclist appealed to them more because he was a moving target.

    Once you get to that place in life where you just kill people for fun I doubt if he has any remorse or cares about his life. I take it personal because I commute to work everyday. It could have easily been me. I'd love to get ahold of the guy, but what would I say to make him care? He's a few ticks past no respect for anything. It's someone that doesn't see the difference in freedom and a jail cell for life. How do you get convinced of that?

  14. #14
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    There are some cases where the death penalty is warranted in my mind, this is one of them. So sickening I have a hard time finding words, I feel like crying just reading about this.

    Reminds me of an episode of Star Trek Voyager where they meet an alien race who's justice systems key point is that the family of the victim gets to decide the purpetrators punishment. I wonder if a system like that would work, provided there were limitations to what the punishment was, ie no torture, even though it would be very tempting in cases like this.

  15. #15
    Get Down Do you
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb3designs
    That is awful. My heart goes out to his family and friends. I cannot believe that someone would shoot a person just for the fun of it. IMO the family should be able to kill the two that shot the cyclist. But that is just my opinion, I believe in "an eye for an eye."


    I couldn't agree more. The family should make these 2 suffer like they did to them. This story honestly sickens me.
    Progression is fine just remember to respect your roots.

  16. #16
    I throw poo
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    I used to commute on my bike when I lived in K.C., I only lived a couple of miles from where that guy was shot. I feel kind of sick, and sad, and really, really angry.
    Dang it, now I'm running a coolness deficit for sure.

  17. #17
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    omg, im in shock now....

  18. #18
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    Obituary for Robert Wynn Osborn

    KC homicide #114: Bicyclist

    With this killing in the news today, here is the obituary published in The Star:
    ROBERT WYNN OSBORN Robert Wynn Osborn, 43, Kansas City, MO tragically lost his life on November 20, 2005. Visitation will be held 5-7 p.m. Friday, Nov. 25, 2005 at Missouri Funeral Care, 6113 Blue Ridge Blvd., Raytown, MO. Funeral services will be held 10 a.m. Saturday, Nov. 26 at the funeral home. Burial in Brooking Cemetery. Robert was born May 17, 1962 in Kansas City, MO. Robert was a member of the Boy Scouts where he earned Eagle Scout. He was a graduate of Raytown High School. While attending Purdue University, Robert was recommended to the Navy as a Pilot for Naval air-craft carriers. Robert was a member of the Huguenot Society and the Sons of the American Revolution. He was very interested in Egyptology and traveled to the pyramids during the millennium celebration. Robert loved aviation and was a member of the Civil Air Patrol. He is preceded in death by his mother, Martha Osborn. Survivors include: father, Glen Osborn, KCMO; brothers, Richard Osborn, KCMO, Ronald Osborn, Lancaster, TX; brother and sister-in-law, Randall and Kim Osborn, Pleasant Hill, MO. (Arr; Missouri Funeral Care, 816-3531700).
    Attached Images Attached Images

  19. #19
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    this is a terrible story

  20. #20
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    What a disgusting

    display of the human condition. I'm bored, lets go kill someone at random???? Clearly this was a hate crime. How utterly F*cking repugnant. If the perps were white and the victim black, this would be headline news; everywhere. What sort of degenerate rational can be given for this? Poverty. Oppressed by the MAN. All BS. The hell with just these two, need to end the whole family line. And before any of you flame me; I'd feel the same way if the perps were white and the victim black. Whatever gene pool birthed that mess needs to be ended.

  21. #21
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    Terrible tragedy ... but it won't deter me from cycle commuting. Judging from the story, I don't think he was killed just because he was a cyclist. He was a random victim ... sadly, lots of people are killed randomly (40 native Indian women abducted and murdered here in Vancouver- - where is the outrage there?). He happened to be riding his bike in the wrong place at the wrong time. D.
    Last edited by Duncan!; 11-24-2005 at 10:28 AM.
    You be you. I'll be riding.

  22. #22
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    losers in life

    I agree his gene pool adds zero to this planet. Is there a capital punisment law in KC ? If so that thing should go to the front of the line.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheckler
    I just felt after reading that.
    It takes a senseless death for you FEEL anything ?

    ,
    Yeah I gotta question. You got any excuses tonight Roy ? -Antonio Tarver

    There is room for it all, just ride what you like to on what you like to...that's freeriding. -rbn14



  24. #24
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    Just another Canadian showing a total lack of remorse...

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave16
    Just another Canadian showing a total lack of remorse...
    "remorse", as defined by the American Heritage Dictionary - "Moral anguish arising from repentance for misdeed"

    Are you suggesting I was the shooter? Or are you saying the shooter was Canadian? (As we seem to be the cause of all the rest of America's problems). Which part of "terrible tragedy" didn't you understand? D.
    You be you. I'll be riding.

  26. #26
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    I don't believe that a-life-for-a-life adequately settles this case. This sort of "murder as relief for boredom" is an example of the grossest disregard for human life and the rights of others. There exists no circumstances nor background situation that can even begin to put this murder in any sort of light in which anybody can say, "It's definitely wrong, but I can understand these factors that went into this act." There is nothing.

    This grossest disregard for the life and rights of somebody else should not be answered by putting the perp through a structured system of civilized execution that still treats them like people, only condemned. This system is good for others whose crimes were terrible, yet still you would have to say, "these were terrible people". These perps have forfeitted their right to humanity, and I think a system needs to exist to deal with these special circumstances.

    As you might know, law and punishment is supposed to provide a level of deterrence for would-be perpertrators. As you also might know, a long incarceration or even the drawn-out death penalty that we have today is no longer the deterrence it used to be for a sector of the population that believes it has little else to lose. At the same time, our government has a prohibition against "cruel and unusual punishments". It sullies the hands of the state and attributes viciousness to a justice system that is supposed to be cold and impartial.

    The elegant solution is to simply revoke the perp's right to be regarded as human. It is poetic, as that is precisely the attitude that they acted upon to get them there anyways. As such, these items become properties of the state. Aside from the fact that slavery is outlawed and abhorrent, it takes a human to be a slave and the presumption that the human-as-slave is capable of generating value. Hence these items cannot be made slaves. As properties of the state, their greatest value lies in the tissues and organs that lie within. But before that, they need to be processed for easy handling and minimal upkeep. They will be fully amputated, including the tongue, so that these items can be kept indefinitely on a feeding tube until their tissue match is needed. When and if it is needed, the organs/tissues will be harvested, much like the salvaging of parts from a wrecked automobile.

    It is not torture nor cruel and unsual punishment because the state, erring on the side of caution, will provide anesthetics. It will be cold and impartial.

    Yes, this whole train of thought is fairly sick. But as Solomon said, "an eye for an eye". Saying that this crime was the simple taking of a life is a gross oversimplification. Revoking the perp's right to be treated as human is the better response to the act committed.

  27. #27
    you know your crazy right
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    sad

    This is a very sad story and really makes me angry. What are we coming to. Killing for boredom....Really?? Well then put them out of their boredom..we don't need them here anyway.K
    Last edited by konahottie_311; 11-24-2005 at 01:41 PM. Reason: spelling
    Boobs to the tube.......

  28. #28
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    When you look at it from another perspective though, it kinda makes you smirk, smile, and eventually laugh out loud.


    Think about this - these two 'hard-core thughs' are gonna be bubba's roomie for the rest of their lives. I can't think of a better way to repay their debt than to get to know, very intimately, the broom handle and other such items. Wouldn't you just like to ask these asshats, about a week after being sentenced.. "wow, were you really THAT bored?"

    I hope they get raped and beat on a daily basis, for the next 10 years, before finally giving up and trying to off themselves.

    Kinda makes you smile when you think of what they are about to get thrown into - 'because they were bored'.. Stupid hard-core thugs.. ROFL!.

  29. #29
    Yes, that's fonetic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evel Knievel
    It takes a senseless death for you FEEL anything ?

    ,
    Read the title too, you're taking him out of context.

  30. #30
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    Welcome to the new world

    Where gangsta Rap lyrics and violent video games that glorify killing cops, steeling cars and street racing through crowded padestrian areas don't effect society. Thats BS folks we are numbing people to violence and disrespect. A sad story.

  31. #31
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    Upset And my neighbors and friends..

    ...just don't understand why I pack a Colt Commander everywhere I go...on my bike or in my Jeep, Uncle Sam Colt is my co-pilot. I'd like to shoot that motherless f$%k myself IF he's convicted.

  32. #32
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    No good Amazing...

    Amazing the stupidity and simplemindedness of our society today. Couldn't you find something better to do with your time then kill someone??? Jeesh!!!

  33. #33
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    Outstanding solution sir.

    Quote Originally Posted by DtEW
    I don't believe that a-life-for-a-life adequately settles this case. This sort of "murder as relief for boredom" is an example of the grossest disregard for human life and the rights of others. There exists no circumstances nor background situation that can even begin to put this murder in any sort of light in which anybody can say, "It's definitely wrong, but I can understand these factors that went into this act." There is nothing.

    This grossest disregard for the life and rights of somebody else should not be answered by putting the perp through a structured system of civilized execution that still treats them like people, only condemned. This system is good for others whose crimes were terrible, yet still you would have to say, "these were terrible people". These perps have forfeitted their right to humanity, and I think a system needs to exist to deal with these special circumstances.

    As you might know, law and punishment is supposed to provide a level of deterrence for would-be perpertrators. As you also might know, a long incarceration or even the drawn-out death penalty that we have today is no longer the deterrence it used to be for a sector of the population that believes it has little else to lose. At the same time, our government has a prohibition against "cruel and unusual punishments". It sullies the hands of the state and attributes viciousness to a justice system that is supposed to be cold and impartial.

    The elegant solution is to simply revoke the perp's right to be regarded as human. It is poetic, as that is precisely the attitude that they acted upon to get them there anyways. As such, these items become properties of the state. Aside from the fact that slavery is outlawed and abhorrent, it takes a human to be a slave and the presumption that the human-as-slave is capable of generating value. Hence these items cannot be made slaves. As properties of the state, their greatest value lies in the tissues and organs that lie within. But before that, they need to be processed for easy handling and minimal upkeep. They will be fully amputated, including the tongue, so that these items can be kept indefinitely on a feeding tube until their tissue match is needed. When and if it is needed, the organs/tissues will be harvested, much like the salvaging of parts from a wrecked automobile.

    It is not torture nor cruel and unsual punishment because the state, erring on the side of caution, will provide anesthetics. It will be cold and impartial.

    Yes, this whole train of thought is fairly sick. But as Solomon said, "an eye for an eye". Saying that this crime was the simple taking of a life is a gross oversimplification. Revoking the perp's right to be treated as human is the better response to the act committed.
    This is Old testament damnation.

  34. #34
    Get out of town!
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair
    "Killing for the fun of it" - Totally amazing. I'll gladly remain a naive country bumpkin.
    Last week I was riding my road bike out through the country and a some guy slowed down and tried to flick his lit cigarette at me as I passed. For a second I thought about turning around and beating his fat redneck @ss. But then I decided it wasn't worth the effort and I was really enjoying my ride. It is astonishing how completely stupid and shallow some people are though. I feel deeply for the victim and family. But the moron who did this isn't worth a second thought.

  35. #35
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    The anger this generates in me is inexplicable and my heart goes out to the guys family and especially parents - it just isn't rightr to bury your own kids.

    Quote Originally Posted by DtEW
    I don't believe that a-life-for-a-life adequately settles this case. This sort of "murder as relief for boredom" is an example of the grossest disregard for human life and the rights of others. There exists no circumstances nor background situation that can even begin to put this murder in any sort of light in which anybody can say, "It's definitely wrong, but I can understand these factors that went into this act." There is nothing.

    This grossest disregard for the life and rights of somebody else should not be answered by putting the perp through a structured system of civilized execution that still treats them like people, only condemned. This system is good for others whose crimes were terrible, yet still you would have to say, "these were terrible people". These perps have forfeitted their right to humanity, and I think a system needs to exist to deal with these special circumstances.

    As you might know, law and punishment is supposed to provide a level of deterrence for would-be perpertrators. As you also might know, a long incarceration or even the drawn-out death penalty that we have today is no longer the deterrence it used to be for a sector of the population that believes it has little else to lose. At the same time, our government has a prohibition against "cruel and unusual punishments". It sullies the hands of the state and attributes viciousness to a justice system that is supposed to be cold and impartial.

    The elegant solution is to simply revoke the perp's right to be regarded as human. It is poetic, as that is precisely the attitude that they acted upon to get them there anyways. As such, these items become properties of the state. Aside from the fact that slavery is outlawed and abhorrent, it takes a human to be a slave and the presumption that the human-as-slave is capable of generating value. Hence these items cannot be made slaves. As properties of the state, their greatest value lies in the tissues and organs that lie within. But before that, they need to be processed for easy handling and minimal upkeep. They will be fully amputated, including the tongue, so that these items can be kept indefinitely on a feeding tube until their tissue match is needed. When and if it is needed, the organs/tissues will be harvested, much like the salvaging of parts from a wrecked automobile.

    It is not torture nor cruel and unsual punishment because the state, erring on the side of caution, will provide anesthetics. It will be cold and impartial.

    Yes, this whole train of thought is fairly sick. But as Solomon said, "an eye for an eye". Saying that this crime was the simple taking of a life is a gross oversimplification. Revoking the perp's right to be treated as human is the better response to the act committed.
    I do believe that Dt has totally hit the nail on the head here - they should no longer be considered human and as such have zero rights. Don't know if I'd risk infecting someone with an organ etc from someone like that though, more likely I would let them be a chew toy for about 10 pit bulls, then stictch them up and heal for a day or two and then let the pit bulls back at them.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  36. #36
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    Memorial Fund???

    My mind is racing. First point, TreadhedTed had it right with the headphone comment. The world is a pretty messed up place anymore in a lot of situations. Sometimes, we have to think a bit about things, work on our situational awareness, be aware of each and every environment we enter in to and out of.

    Slowrider, couldn't agree with you more regarding the impact that the permissiveness of mass media is having on society. Robert Bork said it best when he coined the phrase "Defining Deviancy Down", i.e., more obscenities (of all forms) today are socially acceptable. I'm only 36 but I can remember when I was a kid you didn't hear certain words on tv or radio etc.

    OK, now the rant on those two worthless F$#kholes: 1)it's only 'fun' if the other party is armed. Sure, throw some buckshot my way, I'll be throwing 230gr hollowpoints back your way you sorry sacks of s! 2)If you're that bored, go kill each other and do society a big favor! 3)Hope MO has the death penalty and the family members get to throw the switch!

    As for Robert Osborn (that was the victim's name), I choked up reading his obituary as I got the sense that he was a good man that his family was proud of. This guy was accepted for naval aviation school, you have to be something to get chosen for that privelege. Not sure where he was in life when he was torn so savagely from it, or who depended on him, but.......

    What does anybody else think of trying to get a memorial started for a fellow cyclist to help his family out? Maybe one of the MTBR administrators (sorry for the obvious profanity here, hope you understand) have some ideas/suggestions on this?

  37. #37
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    What a shitty world we live in....

    Im getting my Concealed Weapons Permit tomorrow. This is one cyclist that shoots back...

    And yes, I do feel safer with 10 rounds of 180 grain Hollowpoints in my Camelback.

    Oh how I wish I didn't have to be like this, but utopia is a long way off....

    Once again, my prayers go out to this man and his friends and family.

    Shot through the heart
    And you're to blame
    You give love a bad name...

  38. #38
    life is a barrel o'fun
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    I don't see how carrying a loaded gun is the answer, either. If Robert had a gun, what good would that have done him?

    Random violence happens. Can't go packin' heat for every time a person is shot. Not that it wouldn't be immensely satisfying to fry the perp with a flame thrower or something.
    "We sat outside the dentist, tooting a horn on the guy's bike."-overheard in the Underground

  39. #39
    life is a barrel o'fun
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    There were two of them, and most snipers hit their targets on the first shot. Had he stopped and reached for a gun, they could've gotten away in time.

    The odds of the handgun actually serving a noble purpose are too slim to justify carrying it around, where children or drunken grown-ups can get a hold of it too easily. But we've been through this debate in another thread.
    "We sat outside the dentist, tooting a horn on the guy's bike."-overheard in the Underground

  40. #40
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    Good job! After 30 some odd years...

    ...with a concealed weapons permit, I never have had to worry about my kids putting their hands on my weapons, or diving into my wine cellar for an impromptu wine tasting contest with the neighborhood, or for that matter, pulling out all my fine Japanese and german cutlery and playing Ninja turtle with steak and butcher knives. Even the few "drunks" in my family and circle of friends are too respectful to be so stupid as to play with my nail gun or chainsaw. There is so much in a household that one can use for deadly defense, but never has there been a mishap on my plantation...the bottom line, you bring them up appropriately, without the benefit of pantywaste social workers who for the most part, don't have childen of their own, teach your kids respect for each other and the community at large, have dire consequences when they get real stupid, and teach them to defend themselves from all the scrote bags that are out there in this world. Having a carry permit is an earned right, and no guarantee that it will save your bacon, but it sure helps when a scumbag wants to make his day just for the fun of it...I prefer to make my year with those animals.

  41. #41
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    My hope for the shooter is this ...

    I hope that the police find him and that he tries unsuccessfully to shoot at them. I hope that they respond in turn and take him down but that their shots do not kill him. My fervent hope is that his wounds leave him fully conscious and aware, but completely paralyzed from the eyes down. I hope he spends the rest of a long life going insane from the boredom induced by not being able to move or communicate. I hope that his accomplice is condemned to a life sentence of caring for the shooter and that he hates every minute of it. That would be karma.

    Please understand that I am not saying anything against people who suffer from paralysis. I have met a number who live happy and productive lives. I would not expect the shoote to be one of those.

  42. #42
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    No kidding, I could have eaten lunch in that amount of time...

    Quote Originally Posted by treadheadted
    Your ignorance of firearms is very obvious. The sniper course I took in the military never even mentioned shotguns, nor did it provide any training with them. Do you even know what a shotgun is, or what it does? Do you know what a sniper is, or does? Do you know what the capability of any firearm is in properly trained hands, including those of an Eagle Scout? Do you know how fast I can get my Beretta out of its holster? Maybe you should educate yourself in firearms and their proper use before you spout off any more hypothetical situations based in mass media-fed ignorance. I wasn't there when this incident occured, you weren't there either, but I have no doubt in my mind who out of either of us would have had a better chance of surviving this attack.

    Two missed 12 gauge rounds? And they had to drive ahead of the guy, hiding behind a wall before finally shooting him? Gee, sorry - I have to wait for my gun to warm up before I return fire....

    At any rate, pro or anti gun, a person shouldn't have to worry about getting into a firefight just biking home from work, that's just wrong......put those guys in the chair and set to simmer!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christine
    There were two of them, and most snipers hit their targets on the first shot. Had he stopped and reached for a gun, they could've gotten away in time.

    The odds of the handgun actually serving a noble purpose are too slim to justify carrying it around, where children or drunken grown-ups can get a hold of it too easily. But we've been through this debate in another thread.

    My father was a gun collector and had me shooting before I could walk. No joke. Had me pulling the trigger on a BB gun while he held me on his lap. Growing up I was taught a healthy respect for firearms. When I was a teenager my friends and I would go back into the woods to go "plinking" with a couple rifles. As long as I paid for the ammo and took care handling the guns, my dad didn't care. Never had a problem.

    As far as getting the gun out in time to be of use, I think you would be surprised. My dad had a little cheap, stubby .45 he'd carry in his front pocket. believe me, he can get it out QUICK if need be. You can buy all kinds of quick access stuff. Purses and fanny packs w/ velcro "ripaway" pockets for quick access, shoulder holsters, holsters to stick just inside your belt, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladge
    At any rate, pro or anti gun, a person shouldn't have to worry about getting into a firefight just biking home from work, that's just wrong...
    As much as I believe in the right to protect myself, own a few handguns, and do think it's sometimes a good idea to obtain a concealed weapon permit for mountain biking... I'm not sure this case is an effective argument for arming cyclists. If anything, it is an argument against firearms in general.

    I do want to make a special note and make sure that I am not misquoted: even though I said this case can be viewed as an argument against firearms in general, there is no effective way to implement policy that would have a realistic effect on firearm availability to criminals, in light of the fact that we are not a military dictatorship that can go around house-to-house to scour for anything we wanted and imprison anyone we want on the weakest suspicion. As a representative democratic society with a strong tradition of 1) upholding human rights and 2) private possession of firearms, there is no policy that could be implemented that could have kept the shotgun out of the perp's hands.

    The presumption that Robert Osborn could have protected himself had he been armed is flawed. The reality is that he could have somewhat protected himself (dumped his bike to run for cover after the first two shots missed him) if he had been aware of his surroundings. Even if he had been armed, his obliviousness to the initial assaults would have produced the same result. Of course, one cannot consider his obliviousness a 'mistake' as all normal, non-paranoid people should not have to be constantly on-guard for random deadly assaults.

    As much as the insecure part of ourselves want to believe that there are always things that we can do to protect ourselves and the ones we love, the reality of life is that we are still very much subject to random turns of fate, whether that be execution by inhuman monster or just an inattentive driver in a Chevy Suburban.

    That then brings up the idiom "fate favors the prepared." (A slight mistranslation/bastardization of Pasteur's original.) So no, I'm not offering any sort of clear advice/argument as to whether you should or shouldn't 'pack'.
    Last edited by DtEW; 11-25-2005 at 07:50 PM.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by TraumaARNP
    teach your kids respect for each other and the community at large
    Oh, the irony!

    How can I take you at all seriously when I just got finished reading you go on-and-on about guys who wear lycra as being "girly boys" and "fruit salad," and calling women "goils," then read that you say to teach your kids about having respect for the community at-large???
    Last edited by Nat; 11-25-2005 at 08:05 PM.

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    The idea of packing heat for every ride........I dunno, even with training and all, some dude could easily out-muscle me and use my own gun against me. I'd need martial arts training to go with the gun permit and shooting practice.

    You know, I think I'd rather just get shot in the head and die before I know what's going on, rather than live in constant fear that I'm not armed and dangerous enough.

    Because even with a gun, I could just as easily get hit by a bus.
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    You just don't know when to quit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    Oh, the irony!

    How can I take you at all seriously when I just got finished reading you go on-and-on about guys who wear lycra as being "girly boys" and "fruit salad," and calling women "goils," then read that you say to teach your kids about having respect for the community at-large???
    ...I suspect an obsession with fault finding whenever someone does not agree with you or you find a way to twist other people's opinions...this post has nothing to do with spandex fella'; lighten' up...it is apparent that we see things from a different set of lens, so get over it, stop looking to find ways to trip me up...we are just never going to agree about anything, I suspect

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christine
    The idea of packing heat for every ride........I dunno, even with training and all, some dude could easily out-muscle me and use my own gun against me. I'd need martial arts training to go with the gun permit and shooting practice.

    You know, I think I'd rather just get shot in the head and die before I know what's going on, rather than live in constant fear that I'm not armed and dangerous enough.

    Because even with a gun, I could just as easily get hit by a bus.
    I rode for a year in St Louis with a sidearm. I drew it weekly. Fired it a couple times a month. Kept me alive. But what I eventually found is that if you keep the shoulder holster visible, most people tend to give you a little more road. But I was younger then and pretty fiesty. Nowadays, I guess my attitude is changing. If the people of this world are really still so miserably primitive that they can't overcome their need to conquer & destroy, well, then I'm happy to leave it. How it happens matter not. Since people have to make choices themselves, all you can do is make the positive change in your own life, and be content to know that if you're pulling it off, chances are others will understand it through observation. Progress will spread on its own, if it's really progress. The knuckledraggers will slowly die off. That's why they call it progress. If the world chews you up and spits you out, in the mean time, well, then they weren't ready for it yet, & it's their loss & not yours.
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by treadheadted
    Once you have a cur like that on your leg, it's hard to kick them off. Check his posting history a little and know that you don't own the only pant-leg he has given himself pleasure in starching. Irrational mutts are best left ignored, don't you think?
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarkgriswald
    This is Old testament damnation.
    Whatever works Clark.

    It's the difference between "rehabilitating" an offender or seeing them punished for their gross misdeed.

    You'd rather rehab eh? Pity.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by treadheadted
    Your ignorance of firearms is very obvious. The sniper course I took in the military never even mentioned shotguns, nor did it provide any training with them. Do you even know what a shotgun is, or what it does? Do you know what a sniper is, or does? Do you know what the capability of any firearm is in properly trained hands, including those of an Eagle Scout? Do you know how fast I can get my Beretta out of its holster? Maybe you should educate yourself in firearms and their proper use before you spout off any more hypothetical situations based in mass media-fed ignorance. I wasn't there when this incident occured, you weren't there either, but I have no doubt in my mind who out of either of us would have had a better chance of surviving this attack.
    Quote Originally Posted by treadheadted
    I don't see moderator under your cheesy handle. Your self-appointed assholiness is pretty lame. Maybe you should be banned for not posting mountain biking content
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  52. #52
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    British opinion

    Why do you all have guns?

    For christ sake you guy's have the greatest country and the bigest empire on earth and probably in all history and i am no Yank basher Americans are ok by me.

    But you guy's need to get a grip on your own country first.
    I am as scared of holidaying in the USA as iam of going to central Africa and ive been there in the midle of a war.

  53. #53
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    Starting on topic

    An absolutely tragic story. Both of these phuckers should die as slowly and painfully as possible. Heck, engage trauma doctors to keep them going just to drag out the suffering. I like the link to Medievel devices but nothing beats a good ol' fashioned stoning. That, and throwing stars.

    Back OT:
    Gun nuts take a breather. There are no credible stats supporting how private gun ownership stops or abates crime...at all. In fact, all the evidence is too the contrary. I'm always amazed at the people that are convinced they are (or will be) the exception to the rule. I was raised by a certified gun nut and have plenty of my own. I'm a good fast shot - as evidenced by several .45 and 9mm falling plate trophies. That said, I wouldn't give two shytes if ownership was made illegal as long as the owners received equitable compensation when handing over their assets. A gun is a mechanical device just like a bike. You can have fun with both. Unfortunately, the former can and does kill even the best trained in its application - military, police, privateers alike.

    Protecting yourself from a brown bear and mindless hoodlums are two completely different things. The only thing more retarded than saying packing a sidearm could have saved this man [or somebody else in the same scenario] is the fact that it took these two gutless arsephuks three shots to hit a person with shotgun. If you're going to be a cold blooded murderer at least be a good one. Have some self respect. Show some ambition and drive. Three shots???

    As for the poster describing weekly drawing and monthly firing of his handgun I assume he never hit anybody. If they were warning shots where did they go? Into the sky, into a house...? I just hope you never had to shoot at Nelly.

    We don't need guns. Access to guns is too easy. There are too many [unaccounted for] guns. There are too many guns of inappropriate type - i.e. handguns and assault style weapons. There are too many lunatics citing gawd and country and their "birthrite" to gun ownership. The vast majority of pro-gun positions are absolutely baseless, selfish, ignorant, counterintuitive BS.
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    Rehab???

    The post I was replying to advocated amupating appendages and keeping the perps alive until their organs can be harvested. Which I think is an oustanding idea.

    If you interpret that as supporting rehab...odd, on your part.

    And I admit I am not completley conversant on the Old Testament, I do not recall anything abut rehab.

    Rehab would work for petty criminals. These two passed petty criminality long ago.



    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    Whatever works Clark.

    It's the difference between "rehabilitating" an offender or seeing them punished for their gross misdeed.

    You'd rather rehab eh? Pity.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexonxonx
    As the story goes the killers originally were going to kill a girl walking down the street, when they saw the cyclist. The cyclist appealed to them more because he was a moving target.

    Once you get to that place in life where you just kill people for fun I doubt if he has any remorse or cares about his life. I take it personal because I commute to work everyday. It could have easily been me. I'd love to get ahold of the guy, but what would I say to make him care? He's a few ticks past no respect for anything. It's someone that doesn't see the difference in freedom and a jail cell for life. How do you get convinced of that?
    Someone else may have already commented but from the story:
    "The two drove around the area of Highway 40 and Noland Road. About 5:15 a.m., the pair saw a woman driving by herself and Willis told investigators that he and his friend came up with a plan to rob and kill her, but then they saw Osborn riding his bike near 47th Street and Norfleet."

    So they were going to attack a woman driving in a car alone. The bike probably appealed to them not because it was a faster moving target but because it was just easier. Most criminals are lazy people who will in the end go to great effort not to challenge themselves or do honest work.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kris
    There are some cases where the death penalty is warranted in my mind, this is one of them. So sickening I have a hard time finding words, I feel like crying just reading about this.

    Reminds me of an episode of Star Trek Voyager where they meet an alien race who's justice systems key point is that the family of the victim gets to decide the purpetrators punishment. I wonder if a system like that would work, provided there were limitations to what the punishment was, ie no torture, even though it would be very tempting in cases like this.
    The people who forgive anyone anything without holding them responsible would muck up such a system IMO at least in the western world. It is part of the duty/responsibility of the government system to look out not only for the individual victum but for society as a whole.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christine
    I don't see how carrying a loaded gun is the answer, either. If Robert had a gun, what good would that have done him?

    Random violence happens. Can't go packin' heat for every time a person is shot. Not that it wouldn't be immensely satisfying to fry the perp with a flame thrower or something.
    Since it took the perps three shots to even hit him had he been armed he might could have shot back.

    Because he apparently didn't even notice he was getting shot at and take cover or change his route or try to backtrack to a phone probably not much.

    Weapons alone are not a magic protective cover but being aware of what is going on and having the ability (mental capability and means) to act in your own defense goes a long way before you even have to fire a shot. Had these two scumballs tried this with someone who noticed them and was prepared to return fire you can bet they would 1) picked on someone else instead (just like they decided not to attack the driver when a easier target on a bike showed up) 2) Assuming they didn't know at first their victum was armed broken off the attack instead of lining up for a second and third attempt. (If this guy had even noticed he was under attack they would probably have vacated the area.)

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christine
    There were two of them, and most snipers hit their targets on the first shot. Had he stopped and reached for a gun, they could've gotten away in time.

    The odds of the handgun actually serving a noble purpose are too slim to justify carrying it around, where children or drunken grown-ups can get a hold of it too easily. But we've been through this debate in another thread.
    These were not snipers these were armed thugs who missed twice.
    Most criminals are not any better at using firearms than the LA police who shoot off 50 rounds and hit everything but the perp.

    I have used the threat of a firearm in my own defense when I was not even carrying. Against a dedicated opponent that ruse would not have worked. I don't associate with drunks and I keep my loaded firearms where children cannot get at them. Children should be trained from an early age in safe behaviour around firearms. My earliest memories of such training are about age 4 and I've been shooting BB guns and firearms since about age 10. I've been involved in training seminars both as a student and instructor everyone makes their own choices about what they are willing to do in their own defnese.

    Where I work it is not possible for me to carry 38 ounces of firearm and ammo because of regulations. I would be perfectly willing to do so however if it were legal.

  59. #59
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    No good

    Quote Originally Posted by archer
    Since it took the perps three shots to even hit him had he been armed he might could have shot back.

    Because he apparently didn't even notice he was getting shot at and take cover or change his route or try to backtrack to a phone probably not much.

    Weapons alone are not a magic protective cover but being aware of what is going on and having the ability (mental capability and means) to act in your own defense goes a long way before you even have to fire a shot. Had these two scumballs tried this with someone who noticed them and was prepared to return fire you can bet they would 1) picked on someone else instead (just like they decided not to attack the driver when a easier target on a bike showed up) 2) Assuming they didn't know at first their victum was armed broken off the attack instead of lining up for a second and third attempt. (If this guy had even noticed he was under attack they would probably have vacated the area.)

    Dude, I can live with people owning guns. I don't like the "room full of mousetraps" idea, but I can live with it. However, your post is absurd. First of all, take the end of your firstsentence and the beginning of the second.

    ...had he been armed he might could have shot back.
    and
    Because he apparently didn't even notice he was getting shot at...

    Yeah. So that wouldn't have really helped then, would it...

    And then:

    Had these two scumballs tried this with someone who noticed them and was prepared to return fire you can bet they would 1) picked on someone else instead (just like they decided not to attack the driver when a easier target on a bike showed up)

    I'll bet two kids who decided to kill someone and fire at them, miss, and find themselves in return fire are going to say, "well, lets see, he's shooting at us, we have this gun, but lets go away and shoot someone else, and hope he doesn't come after us." nope, at that point, it's called a gunfight. Your chances of surviving a gunfight are of course better if you bring a gun. This is the argument that makes some kind of sense on your side. Try it out.

    2) Assuming they didn't know at first their victum was armed broken off the attack instead of lining up for a second and third attempt. (If this guy had even noticed he was under attack they would probably have vacated the area.)

    So what you're saying is, if the attackers didn't know their victim was armed, they'd just go away? Well, ok, so in REALITY, the victim wasn't armed, meaning the attackers indeed probably DIDN'T know he was armed. But they didn't go away, did they?

    If that's what you were trying to say, and it's hard to tell exactly, since your post looks like it was written by someone either very new to the english language or simply very bad at it. If you are either, keep working on it, you'll get there someday.
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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christine
    The idea of packing heat for every ride........I dunno, even with training and all, some dude could easily out-muscle me and use my own gun against me. I'd need martial arts training to go with the gun permit and shooting practice.

    You know, I think I'd rather just get shot in the head and die before I know what's going on, rather than live in constant fear that I'm not armed and dangerous enough.

    Because even with a gun, I could just as easily get hit by a bus.
    In order:
    1) As I said we all make our own decisions about what we are willing to do in our own defense. However I know a number of ~100-140+# women who can shoot quite well. One is a 98# black belt. At 190# I can take most of them barehanded but most of them are also shooters and I wouldn't even try to take a firearm away from them.

    2) As I said you make your own decisions.

    3) The guy in the article could have been hit by a bus or a fire truck with the siren going for that matter. Are you as oblivious as he was? Do you look before crossing the street? Are you in the headphones and daydreaming when riding the street or do you pay attention to the traffic, noise and signals?

  61. #61
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    This whole conversation, which seems to revolve around the notion of shooting your way into and out of work or a bike ride is making me (and I assume a lot of other non-Americans) shake my head in disbelief. Is America really that messed up? (PS In my youth, I used to be a competitive shooter). D.
    Last edited by Duncan!; 11-28-2005 at 02:53 PM.
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  62. #62
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    [QUOTE=clarkgriswald]display of the human condition. I'm bored, lets go kill someone at random???? Clearly this was a hate crime. QUOTE]

    Not to flame you, but what's clear? They killed the second person they saw, they passed up the first because they thought the guy on the bike was easier. No racial motive voiced by anyone.
    We all get it in the end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mzungo101@yahoo.co.uk
    Why do you all have guns?

    For christ sake you guy's have the greatest country and the bigest empire on earth and probably in all history and i am no Yank basher Americans are ok by me.

    But you guy's need to get a grip on your own country first.
    I am as scared of holidaying in the USA as iam of going to central Africa and ive been there in the midle of a war.
    I allways have fun talking with folks from the UK and their impression of the U.S..
    They always seem to be expecting to see a Dodge City shootout in the street as if it is an everyday everywhere occurance.

    BTW, how do the Home Office's stats compare to crime in the U.S. when they are not doctored? I seem to recall they admitted this year they have been downplaying the stats plus there have been a number of unarmed and non-criminal folks shot by LEOs in the UK in the last couple years for suspicion of being armed. Seems the Irish have been dropping the ball on criminal prosecutions as well. (Something like 100,000 police reports this year dropped before filing as opposed to 64,000 last year?) Not to mention the unarmed police woman killed in the UK responding to an armed robbery or the movement to arm LEOs in general in the UK.

    In general the U.S. is not much more of a violent place than the rest of the world.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer
    ...how do the Home Office's stats compare to crime in the U.S. when they are not doctored?...
    Yes, it's all just a big conspiracy. The rest of the world is in on it.
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    RIP Mr. Osborne

    Man, this thread has gone pretty far afield. I thought about you this morning, Bob, and said a prayer for your family. The rest of you, armed or not, keep your eyes open.

    Happy trails to you...
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  66. #66
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    The death penalty would be too good for these guys... senseless killing=Stupid and Bad

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christine
    There were two of them, and most snipers hit their targets on the first shot. Had he stopped and reached for a gun, they could've gotten away in time.

    The odds of the handgun actually serving a noble purpose are too slim to justify carrying it around, where children or drunken grown-ups can get a hold of it too easily. But we've been through this debate in another thread.
    Your premise is contradicted by recent scientific studies (e.g. Dr. J Lott) as well as crime stats from the 38+ states with "shall issue" concealed carry laws. Responsible citizens who go through the process to get permits (inc. fingerprinting and background checks) are rarely involved in crimes or allow misuse of their sidearms. Violent crime rates generally decrease in states after the passage of new concealed carry laws.

    FWIW- Having grown up in metro Detroit, I was saddened but not shocked but this senseless act of brutality. Some years ago my brother was a victim of a random drive-by beating while riding his bike. In a sad commentary on life in that area- my overwhelming emotion at the time was not anger but relief that he was not critically injured.

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    Good job! Agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by treadheadted
    Once you have a cur like that on your leg, it's hard to kick them off. Check his posting history a little and know that you don't own the only pant-leg he has given himself pleasure in starching. Irrational mutts are best left ignored, don't you think?

    There should be no question now on why I pack everywhere I go...I just hate it when a mangey cur tries to tear up my "manly" pant legs

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupboy
    If they were warning shots where did they go? Into the sky, into a house...? I just hope you never had to shoot at Nelly.
    i'm sorry. but.... OH SNAP!

  70. #70
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    [QUOTE=DtEW]The presumption that Robert Osborn could have protected himself had he been armed is flawed. The reality is that he could have somewhat protected himself (dumped his bike to run for cover after the first two shots missed him) if he had been aware of his surroundings. Even if he had been armed, his obliviousness to the initial assaults would have produced the same result. Of course, one cannot consider his obliviousness a 'mistake' as all normal, non-paranoid people should not have to be constantly on-guard for random deadly assaults.QUOTE]

    I agree, the best outcome would have resulted from him hearing/knowing what was going on. I wish he would have forgotten his headphones that day. If he would have known at least he could have practiced the five D's behind some cars or something.
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    [I'm at a loss for words. I'm not a violent person, but stories like that make me wish stoning was a legal way for the death penalty. People like that should not get the right to do anything. I wil never put my bikes down road or mountain, but I might start carrying some other equipment.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaleid
    When you look at it from another perspective though, it kinda makes you smirk, smile, and eventually laugh out loud.


    Think about this - these two 'hard-core thughs' are gonna be bubba's roomie for the rest of their lives. I can't think of a better way to repay their debt than to get to know, very intimately, the broom handle and other such items. Wouldn't you just like to ask these asshats, about a week after being sentenced.. "wow, were you really THAT bored?"

    I hope they get raped and beat on a daily basis, for the next 10 years, before finally giving up and trying to off themselves.

    Kinda makes you smile when you think of what they are about to get thrown into - 'because they were bored'.. Stupid hard-core thugs.. ROFL!.

    These jerks will not be raped. They will be considered heros. I'm not kidding. When a black person kills a white person and goes to jail the other black inmates give them status. On the otherhand the whites do nothing about it. Whites are a minority in prison and even when they are the majority they do not "run" the show there.
    I may not be as good as I once was.
    But I'm as good once, as I ever was.
    Toby Keith

  73. #73
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    It really sinks in reading Osborn's bio and seeing his picture. I read him to be a rather smart fellow who led an interesting life. Well, he could be someone I knew or my dad went to school with. A few things stuck out to me that we shared in common. I wish his family well getting through this and to a good future, sans Robert W., bless them.

    It really hits home because in reality I ride in southern KC. To make it worse I work in the am so on my days off i tend to ride in the am. I only ride the streets to get to certain trails, lots, etc. But I do encounter a few cars. Hexonxonx, you say someone was driven off the road here recently, we would hope that it wasn't intentional, but I've known bully kids who would do crap like that for laughs. You never know, and let me reiterate that living closeby and having coworkers all the sudden repeatedly question your bike riding is driving it deep in my mind.

    Riding alone, at night/am, can be spooky at times. Everytime I see headlights behind me I watch them close. Not much you can do if they swerve at you with speed. I ride on the edge of the pavement/grass and used to think I could outrun and outmaneuver them if they threatened me. I suppose on some stretches that would be successful but I don't like my odds. I've had people throw empty beer cans and bs like that at me, but miss. Not much you can do if someone drives by or ambushs you with a gun, but hope they miss, and hope you can react.

    Offroad I sometimes worry about encountering druggies in the woods who leap out at me or whatever. I find myself scanning the woodline in a very scrutinizing way, looking for anything reflecting back. But so far I only happen across a good number of animals each night.

    I think bikeriders are highly susceptible to ambush with a variety of lethal weapons, on or off-road. We can only hope to realize the opportunity to get out of the situation.

    I will post my feelings on that tomorrow.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Shake
    Dude, I can live with people owning guns. I don't like the "room full of mousetraps" idea, but I can live with it. However, your post is absurd. First of all, take the end of your firstsentence and the beginning of the second.

    ...had he been armed he might could have shot back.
    and
    Because he apparently didn't even notice he was getting shot at...

    Yeah. So that wouldn't have really helped then, would it...

    And then:

    Had these two scumballs tried this with someone who noticed them and was prepared to return fire you can bet they would 1) picked on someone else instead (just like they decided not to attack the driver when a easier target on a bike showed up)

    I'll bet two kids who decided to kill someone and fire at them, miss, and find themselves in return fire are going to say, "well, lets see, he's shooting at us, we have this gun, but lets go away and shoot someone else, and hope he doesn't come after us." nope, at that point, it's called a gunfight. Your chances of surviving a gunfight are of course better if you bring a gun. This is the argument that makes some kind of sense on your side. Try it out.

    2) Assuming they didn't know at first their victum was armed broken off the attack instead of lining up for a second and third attempt. (If this guy had even noticed he was under attack they would probably have vacated the area.)

    So what you're saying is, if the attackers didn't know their victim was armed, they'd just go away? Well, ok, so in REALITY, the victim wasn't armed, meaning the attackers indeed probably DIDN'T know he was armed. But they didn't go away, did they?

    If that's what you were trying to say, and it's hard to tell exactly, since your post looks like it was written by someone either very new to the english language or simply very bad at it. If you are either, keep working on it, you'll get there someday.

    ...had he been armed he might could have shot back.
    and
    Because he apparently didn't even notice he was getting shot at...

    Yeah. So that wouldn't have really helped then, would it...


    Might have. For example, if he had noticed. He didn't necessarily mean he WOULD have.





    I'll bet two kids who decided to kill someone and fire at them, miss, and find themselves in return fire are going to say, "well, lets see, he's shooting at us, we have this gun, but lets go away and shoot someone else, and hope he doesn't come after us."

    Based on the evidence, they probably would have left him alone. They were looking for an easy kill. Someone shooting at you would not be an easy kill. Furthermore, no they aren't going to hunt him down to make sure he "didn't come after them." Only a fool would think that their thought process would have changed to "Oh no! We'd better kill him now to make sure he doesn't catch up to our car in his bike and shoot us!"



    nope, at that point, it's called a gunfight. Your chances of surviving a gunfight are of course better if you bring a gun. This is the argument that makes some kind of sense on your side. Try it out.

    They're also better if you decide to drive away in the car you so conveniently happen to be sitting in, instead of instigating a prolonged gunfight with someone who more than likely can shoot better than you.





    So what you're saying is, if the attackers didn't know their victim was armed, they'd just go away? Well, ok, so in REALITY, the victim wasn't armed, meaning the attackers indeed probably DIDN'T know he was armed. But they didn't go away, did they?

    Notice he said "assuming they didn't know AT FIRST" and "instead of lining up for a SECOND and THIRD attempt." Implying there would have already been a first attempt, and at that point they would definitely find out that their intended victim was armed.




    Sounds like you're the one who needs to work on your english, or maybe reading comprehension.
    Last edited by sovietspyguy; 12-04-2005 at 04:52 PM.

  75. #75
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    Robert Osborn Memorial Ride

    ================================================== ====
    Robert Osborn Memorial Ride: "Safe Streets, Safe City"
    ================================================== ====

    We are meeting and riding in memory of a committed bicyclist who was senselessly murdered two weeks ago, and in support of safer streets and a safer city.

    Time: 11 AM, Sunday, December 11th, 2005
    Meeting Place: Parking lot of HyVee, 4545 Noland Rd, Independence, Missouri
    Route: 8 miles, including Robert's usual bicycling commuting route

    Who is invited:
    Anyone (bicyclist or not) who would like to meet in support Robert's family and friends and in support of safer streets and a safer city
    Bicyclists who would like to ride in memory of Robert and in support of safer streets and a safer city.

    --

    Kansas City area bicyclists,

    We are meeting and then riding in memory of Robert Osborn, the Kansas City bicyclist who was murdered 2 weeks ago while riding his bicycle home from work.

    I hope you will come out and ride in support of the ride's message, "Safe Streets, Safe City" (suggested by Robert's brother Rich), and in support of this committed bicyclist, who was so senselessly and needlessly murdered, and in support of his family and friends.

    Some of Robert's friends & family will be there to talk about Robert and his life for a few minutes starting at 11AM.

    Then the Memorial Ride will follow Robert's usual bicycle commuting route home (he worked at HyVee) and some of the other roads he often rode in the area.

    Robert was a committed transportational bicyclist who usually bicycled to work and often bicycled to other destinations around the Kansas City area.

    Map of meeting point and ride route with other details:

    http://www.wayfaring.com/maps/show/1432

    Map of possible bicycle routes to the ride start:

    http://www.wayfaring.com/maps/show/1544

    The memorial ride is jointly sponsored by the Missouri Bicycle Federation and the Greater Kansas City Bicycle Federation.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kris
    There are some cases where the death penalty is warranted in my mind, this is one of them. So sickening I have a hard time finding words, I feel like crying just reading about this.
    I too am against the death penalty, but stories like this make me rethink this.

  77. #77
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    I know this might sound unamerican but why do we need to waste tax $$ on keeping this guy alive in prision for ever? Cant we just hang him?
    "The two drove around the area of Highway 40 and Noland Road. About 5:15 a.m., the pair saw a woman driving by herself and Willis told investigators that he and his friend came up with a plan to rob and kill her, but then they saw Osborn riding his bike"

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan!
    This whole conversation, which seems to revolve around the notion of shooting your way into and out of work or a bike ride is making me (and I assume a lot of other non-Americans) shake my head in disbelief. Is America really that messed up? (PS In my youth, I used to be a competitive shooter). D.
    In summary, yes, it really is that messed up. Police do almost nothing to enforce laws. They are simply low level beureaucrats who show up after the fact to write up documentation. Long gone are the days of the beat cop walking the street and actually doing some good.
    Guns are everywhere and easily obtainable. Education (especially the moral kind) is so inadequate it's ridiculous. This country has become a near anarchy of desperation and the general mindset is "gotta get mine and who cares about you"...

    ****KANSAS!

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    I do believe that Dt has totally hit the nail on the head here - they should no longer be considered human and as such have zero rights. Don't know if I'd risk infecting someone with an organ etc from someone like that though, more likely I would let them be a chew toy for about 10 pit bulls, then stictch them up and heal for a day or two and then let the pit bulls back at them.
    Just because one (or the state) claims they are no longer human, this in no way makes it so. As horrible as this crime was, we should not allow it to diminish each and every one of us. And from reading the posts here, anger has gotten the better of many.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianthebiker
    Just because one (or the state) claims they are no longer human, this in no way makes it so. As horrible as this crime was, we should not allow it to diminish each and every one of us. And from reading the posts here, anger has gotten the better of many.
    I will admit that my original post was partially driven by outrage, but I want to point out why your argument (a standard argument against the death penalty) does not apply in this case.

    Here we have perps who have have actually confessed to their inhuman motivations.

    See, you, me, and probably everyone else on this board can empathize somewhat to the all-too-human motivators of other hideous crimes, such as passion, jealousy, greed, pettiness, hatred, bitterness, conviction, irrationality, whatever. We all have an idea how powerful these motivators can drive a person, even in the absence of irrationality. It could almost be said that many murders are the worst manifestations of humanity, but nevertheless, humanity. So it could be argued that an inhuman punishment for this does diminish every one of us.

    In contrast, killing out of boredom is an assertion of inhumanity. It is an idea that nobody can relate to, as it necessitates the complete contempt of humanity.
    Last edited by DtEW; 12-08-2005 at 01:54 PM.

  81. #81
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