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  1. #1
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  2. #2
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    I think it sucks. One more blow to cycling and cycling fans. Is anyone clean?

  3. #3
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    Karma is a bitсh.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackhammer
    I think it sucks. One more blow to cycling and cycling fans. Is anyone clean?
    The concept of "clean" that they try to instill is absurd. Trace amount of astma drug does not affect anything.

    They shoudl only care about a level playing field and low risk to athletes. There is no need to be absolutely "clean". There is no such thing anyway.

  5. #5
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    Can I just echo:
    Ride on, Anthony.

  6. #6
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    As much as i like Schleck alot more, i don't think the quantities justify any title removal from Contador.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hand/of/Midas
    As much as i like Schleck alot more, i don't think the quantities justify any title removal from Contador.
    +1 on that statement

  8. #8
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    "The experts consulted so far have agreed also that this is a food contamination case, especially considering the number of tests passed by Alberto Contador during the Tour de France,'' Vidarte said

    I don't think the verdict is in yet. It never ceases to amaze me how this always seems to come into the limelight AFTER the race is over and not during. It would be a devastating blow to cycling for sure.

    PS – I was more of Schleck fan anyhow, but at this point if anyone is stripped of their title it doesn’t have near the value as it does during the race itself.

  9. #9
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    I am shocked
    Falling down is part of LIFE…Getting back up is LIVING…

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dixie whiskey
    I don't think the verdict is in yet.
    I find the doped cattle theory somewhat credible. True? Don't know.

    It is a substance that is sometimes used to boost cattle growth and the amount detected is very small.

    Who knows what they'd find in me. My meals are not analyzed for chemicals before I eat.

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  11. #11
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    ALl right, as much as I think Contador is a d!ck (not for the Schlek thing with the chain, he was right in doing that, just himself all the time) I think this is utter crap, at least going by that report. If the substance was 400 times below what the tests are supposed to be able to pick up, then I'd think there's a reason for that as Perttime said, all animals these days are given steroids to boost growth and most who eat retail meat would prob show the same traces of this substance, prob in even higher quantities.

    I think that somethinglike this should be gone through behind closed doors until it proved, beyound a shadow of a doubt before anyone outside the UCI knows about it, because no matter what the outcome now, his reputation is tainted.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by perttime
    I find the doped cattle theory somewhat credible. True? Don't know.

    It is a substance that is sometimes used to boost cattle growth and the amount detected is very small.
    Hmmmm....that sounds a bit like Floyd Landis blaming the few beers he had one night as the reason for his high testosterone numbers. All Floyd did was deny, deny, deny, deny until he didn't.

    IMO, Contador is in the same boat as Landis. Currently, it's the deny, deny, deny flotilla.

  13. #13
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    Reading the reports and it was stated that there are only 4 labs in the world with equipment sensitive enough to detect at the level that was found.

    Maybe they got caught out by the right lab or maybe it is an honest mistake.

    I really don't like Contador as a rider but what if it was LA that was the story headliner? Would I be quite so judgemental then? I don't think so.

    For me: Jury's out until we get more evidence from UCI.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by perttime
    I find the doped cattle theory somewhat credible.
    I find it udder bull$#!%.

  15. #15
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    When money is involved cheating is part of the program, it seems everyone wants a even playing field, and thats the only way to get it, I see cheating for trophies, millions of dollars, what do you expect, Richard Petty won 200 races, the winnest racer of all times and he admits cheating, if they don't cheat one way, they will find another, anything is possible in this day and age, bionic cheating may be next, if it's not here yet..LOL!!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by s0ckeyeus
    I find it udder bull$#!%.
    Of course he is guilty: he rides a bike after all.

    ... just like everybody who goes to a gym is on something ...

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by perttime
    Of course he is guilty: he rides a bike after all.

    ... just like everybody who goes to a gym is on something ...
    Sorry, I was just making a couple bad puns. I haven't really done my homework to form an opinion one way or the other.

  18. #18
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    What? El Pistolero has been busted for a reading of 50 parts per trillion of clenbuterol ... no way.

    El Pistolero is the honest bloke who dobbed all of his mates in during Operación Puerto. There is no way he's a cheat, he is the Saviour of cycling. There must be a mistake.

    He may have just gone to Dr Fuentes place for dinner and not realized ... that every morsel is contaminated with something or other illegal, over there.

    I hope the lying cheating arsehole gets at least 2 years ... if it was up to me I'd give him life.

    Warren.

  19. #19
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    I cheated on a game of Battleship. UCI is the jersey shore of sporting bodies.

  20. #20
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    everyone is chasing a level playing field. even if that means everyone is using. its not worth the harmful long term effects. Everyone will know whos been using when they die early of organ failure. I know im going to catch **** in my hat for this but cant people just enjoy the clean honest competition? I play college volleyball and can lose and be fine with it if i played as good as i can. I just dont understand how they think they will get away with it.
    count your blessings

  21. #21
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    To get the science correct, they are gonna hafta start testing a control population group to establish just what stuff ends up in humans "naturally".......

    Then set limits according to these standards...

    This may actually provide some benefits to humankind with respect to health and environment research dollars.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzer16
    I play college volleyball and can lose and be fine with it if i played as good as i can. I just dont understand how they think they will get away with it.
    But how many $$$ are involved? The guy who finishes second isn't the one who gets the sponsorship deals.

    When I race I race to win, not finish second. However there's no financial pressure on me to perform and no-one who will drop me from a team if I routinely don't win.

    I'm not saying doping is right, far from it but I can understand why riders would consider doing it.

    UCI need to re-visit the doping laws but I don't know what the solution to the problem would be. Even if they allowed doping (in a controlled manner) there would still be those that would try to cheat the rules.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    To get the science correct, they are gonna hafta start testing a control population group to establish just what stuff ends up in humans "naturally".......

    Then set limits according to these standards...

    This may actually provide some benefits to humankind with respect to health and environment research dollars.
    You sir, speak with much logic!

  24. #24
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    Wow. So many vitrolic opinions based on so few facts.

  25. #25
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    Only 2 possibilities in my mind. 1) He did, in fact, eat contaminated meat. Possible, but an awefully "convenient" excuse; 2) He dumped in some old blood on the 2nd rest day with trace elements of the chemical in it that no one thought would show up.

    I think option 2 is more likely considering his history, his performance during the race, and the fact he cut his season short. (It would also explain why the story is emphasizing the level of precision of the lab test--400 times more than the minimum requirement (if riders are basing their doping regimes off of the minimal or normal detection standards, this puts them on notice.....)

    However, I will withhold judgment for now until more info comes out, as I was one of the schmucks who thought Landis was framed.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 53119
    I cheated on a game of Battleship. UCI is the jersey shore of sporting bodies.
    HAHA! LMAO!

    I don't hate him, even though I think he is pretty arrogant...and because of this personality I wouldn't doubt a bit he's doping....I don't know...I think it's just a matter of trust? Just by seeing him and his assness I think he's a cheater!

    And by the way, I don't want to sound like a sucka, but it's the PRO TOUR we are talking about! Who doesn't take this or the other to help them out on the suffer fest!
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raineman
    Wow. So many vitrolic opinions based on so few facts.
    wow? c'mon, given the history of doping in road racing, especially in the last 2 decades? Ok, the history of professional sports, period. reaction is for us public folk..response is for those in the situation. Clearly, no good responses yet.

    Wow would be for Missy gettin caught with 400lbs of safety equipment

  28. #28
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    Media loves to run with hearsay.... Guilty until proven innocent, I guess. Common... the banned substance is "asthma" medication, and he's already been convicted, even before the B-sample has been tested, or any punnishment handed down. Everyone wants to break a story... Yahoo said Brett Farve was retiring after talking to a teammate that said another teammate got a text message.... Pretty good source if you ask me. Don't jump to conclusions.... That makes U a tool! J/K

  29. #29
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    To get the science correct, they are gonna hafta start testing a control population group to establish just what stuff ends up in humans "naturally".......
    They do, quite extensively.

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    The testing and appeals process is so incredibly backwards in cycling there is no way of knowing the true.

    The GC/MS that they ran Landis' samples through wasn't even calibrated prior to testing his samples. And I believe it was done in a lab that wasn't even authorized/qualified to do the testing in the first place. A former NCIS chemist gave a lecture on the cycling testing procedures to a chemistry organization that I was in back in undergrad. It was laughable about UCI reaches conclusions that are in no way objective or even defendable due to deeply flawed testing procedures. I wish I could find the powerpoint to link...

    Someone also brought up the excellent point that there is no consensus on which substances should/shouldn't be banned and what levels of the substances qualify as "doping".

  32. #32
    Genius
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    Professional Sports is all FAIL. They all cheat and do drugs. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a fool.
    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6bobby9
    Professional Sports is all FAIL. They all cheat and do drugs. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a fool.
    And why is that a problem?

    It they all do drugs, that is not cheating. It is a level playing field. They do not compete with YOU.

    It is a business existing to drive advertizing and sell tickets. (In case of Olympics it is advertizing your nation). Nothing else to it.

  34. #34
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    I agree with Curmy. It's a collective gasp and then it's a Nike Tiger apology and all is good again. I on the other hand killed my inner roadie awhile ago so I don't know ##** when it comes to their doping issues.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    And why is that a problem?

    It they all do drugs, that is not cheating. It is a level playing field. They do not compete with YOU.

    It is a business existing to drive advertizing and sell tickets. (In case of Olympics it is advertizing your nation). Nothing else to it.
    and thats the problem. they are harming themselves and setting a bad example and they still dont have an edge over the competition. they all want to money but dont think about the consequences. look at landis. hes sure living the life now....
    count your blessings

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzer16
    and thats the problem. they are harming themselves and setting a bad example and they still dont have an edge over the competition. they all want to money but dont think about the consequences. look at landis. hes sure living the life now....
    Professional athletes are harming themselves quite fine without any drugs. Have you seen injuries that some young gymnasts are getting?

    And the "bad example" is a red herring anyway. The only reason for "bad examples" was overzealous drug prosecution. Landis would have remained a great role model if not for those asshats who went after him. Everybody would just celebrate Bonds record, and move on. If the show is running smooth - nobody cares.

    Would much rather have an "enhanced" athlete as an example for my kids, then some fat slob. It is my responsibility to educate them about dangerous habits anyway.

    And why are we counting money in their pockets? You should worry about your coworker hopped up on stimulants working late nights and getting that promotion over you.

  37. #37
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    I just googled:

    " clenbuterol cattle "

    I have not eaten beef recently, more into chicken and fish. Otherwise, how would I know I don't have any in my blood? Call WADA?

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  38. #38
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    Read an article about this stating that a significant amount of tainted beef needs to be eaten to get this level (on the order of several steaks). Seems unlikely that a pro cyclist would be housing steak after steak prior to a mountain stage.

    Also, this is not an asthma med (at least not in the U.S. or most of Europe). Its primary usage is for body building (it is anabolic...which is why it is given to cattle).

    Lastly, why did none of his teammates test positive. If this meat was brought in from Spain specifically for Contador, was there only enough meat brought in for him? Seems unlikely. I would imagine someone else other than him had some as well.


  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowStorm
    why did none of his teammates test positive. If this meat was brought in from Spain specifically for Contador, was there only enough meat brought in for him? Seems unlikely. I would imagine someone else other than him had some as well.
    my thoughts exactly - an exclusive diet just for the team leader?

  40. #40
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    Weeeeeeeeee!

    It wasn't me

  41. #41
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    DumDUUMMM!!!

    Number of people surprised, anyone, anyone?!

    Here comes ban number 2...

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    And why is that a problem?

    It they all do drugs, that is not cheating. It is a level playing field. They do not compete with YOU.

    It is a business existing to drive advertizing and sell tickets. (In case of Olympics it is advertizing your nation). Nothing else to it.
    Why is doping a problem? F$#k dude, you sound like an a$$ when you put it that way. Whether or not its a "level playing field" is not the point. Cheating is cheating. However in the interest of debating the issue, even if they all dope its still not a level paying field unless they all ingested the same amount....

    Just like baseball these days, cycling has no chance of ever getting respect when the champions and record holders are later disgraced by cheating.
    Last edited by De La Pena; 09-30-2010 at 03:34 PM.
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  43. #43
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    As long as athletes believe they're worth multiple millions for a season of swinging a bat or pedaling a bike, there will be those looking for the easier way to the top.

    There will also always be those that do things the respectable way.
    "Fear not the ob-stackles in your path"

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howeler
    Weeeeeeeeee!

    Awesome.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6bobby9
    Why is doping a problem?
    Yes, why exactly is that a problem at this level? Why do we have to assume that having some clonbuterol in your system is bad? Because somebody told us so?

    I do worry about what is in my body. I could not care less what's in Contador's. (But I do enjoy watching him squirm a little, I have to admit)

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowStorm
    Also, this is not an asthma med (at least not in the U.S. or most of Europe). Its primary usage is for body building (it is anabolic...which is why it is given to cattle).
    Yeah, just look at all that muscle mass on Contador!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by HamfisT
    As long as athletes believe they're worth multiple millions for a season of swinging a bat or pedaling a bike, there will be those looking for the easier way to the top.
    They are indeed worth millions of dollars. Have you seen how much companies spend on advertizing? Billions on the top of billions.

    What do you think pays for you being able to use this website. Ads. Many of them featuring pro athletes. Like Armstrong plastered all over Nissan Leaf ads. It does work.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabrabu
    Yeah, just look at all that muscle mass on Contador!
    My son had been prescribed clenbuterol (if I remember correctly) to alleviate wheezing after bronchitis.

    Doper. Now I know why he was so fast at 20 month old..


  49. #49
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    A World Anti-Doping Agency-accredited lab in Cologne, Germany, found a "very small concentration'' of clenbuterol in Contador's urine sample on July 21 at the Tour, according to a statement from the UCI.

    But the amount was "400 time(s) less than what the antidoping laboratories accredited by WADA must be able to detect,'' the cycling organization said.

    My question is if it was "very small concentration" and "400 time(s) less than...able to detect" what benefit does such a small amount gain the rider in way of performance in the first place???

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by dixie whiskey
    what benefit does such a small amount gain the rider in way of performance in the first place???
    "a different theory: that Contador transfused his own blood on the rest day, and that blood contained evidence of earlier Clenbuterol use. German journalist Hajo Seppellt accused the UCI of trying to hide the doping case by denying it when asked earlier this week, and raised the possibility on a German television program that the source was actually a contaminated transfusion. Biological passport expert Rasmus Damsgaard, the man behind the independent testing program previously used by teams such as Saxo Bank, also offered up the same tainted transfusion theory in an SMS to Danish TV2 Sport." -Cyclingnews.
    <!-- google_ad_section_end -->
    Also, atheletes shouldn't be role models, regardless. They're atheletes because they're good at hitting balls and throwing things and going fast, not because they're decent, constructive, intelligent human beings.
    Last edited by p.doering; 09-30-2010 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Better answer.
    Ride on, Anthony.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by p.doering
    Also, atheletes shouldn't be role models, regardless. They're atheletes because they're good at hitting balls and throwing things and going fast, not because they're decent, constructive, intelligent human beings.
    When they are "role models", they earn more money from endorsements.

    What WADA and the Nowitskis'es are doing is counterproductive.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    My son had been prescribed clenbuterol (if I remember correctly) to alleviate wheezing after bronchitis.

    Doper. Now I know why he was so fast at 20 month old..

    What country are you from? In the states, Clenbuterol use is restricted to animals.

    FYI, there are many bronchodilators that are FDA approved (with multiple brand names). Many of them have similar sounding names. Although many of these compounds only differ in side groups, they all function slightly differently. Conversely, many of these compounds have significant side effects (side effects which are occasionally desired).

    In general, these are used mainly for asthma, but are often given out incessantly and unnecessarily by pediatricians for minor respiratory complaints in children. This leads to confusion later on when parents think their children have asthma.

  53. #53
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    A mighty 1/400th of the WADA minimum level for a positive test. What's that supposed to be then? Homoeopathic doping?

  54. #54
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    Great question

    Quote Originally Posted by dixie whiskey
    A World Anti-Doping Agency-accredited lab in Cologne, Germany, found a "very small concentration'' of clenbuterol in Contador's urine sample on July 21 at the Tour, according to a statement from the UCI.

    But the amount was "400 time(s) less than what the antidoping laboratories accredited by WADA must be able to detect,'' the cycling organization said.

    My question is if it was "very small concentration" and "400 time(s) less than...able to detect" what benefit does such a small amount gain the rider in way of performance in the first place???

    Just because you can measure something does not mean it is significant

    So far, I feel more is missing here than revealed. How long can this drug reside in your body? Can you really test positive from eating a food product that has it? If it is used for asthma, could you inhale it second hand by being around someone using an inhaler?

    It sounds from the article like just Contador's A and B samples were run on this new test equipment. If they ran other samples, I wonder who else might turn up positive...

    .

  55. #55
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    Why is this even news, honestly? It's not like it's some shock that they are all cheating, sinewy little coathanger-men, doing whatever it takes to win.

    I say either test them all every day, 3 times per day and burn all cheaters at the stake...

    OR

    Let the little legshavers dope and inject all they want. Open it right up. It'd be pretty sweet to see little tendon-with-lungs guys spontaneously explode. It would be like Castelli-sponsored popcorn!!
    tangaroo: What electrolytes do chicken and turkey have again?
    rck18: All of them, because they're meat.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    My son had been prescribed clenbuterol (if I remember correctly) to alleviate wheezing after bronchitis.

    Doper. Now I know why he was so fast at 20 month old..

    Albuterol, perhaps? My son takes it via nebulizer whenever he gets a wheeze or chest congestion that might trigger his asthma. I"ve actually used it a few times myself (with my doc's ok), most notably the last time I quit smoking. Don't know if it helped my performance on the bike as it was winter but my lungs did clear out better and feel much better. Also gets the heart rate up right after the treatment. I think I'm gonna try it the night before my next ride and again in the morning, while not having any smokes in between. Mostly because I'm curious and partly because I'm stupid like that.
    I'm not big-boned, I'm a Clyde.

  57. #57
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    Who says the ones doing the testing aren't bought off??? When money is involved the game changes, World Cup was a joke, Pro Sports are fixed for ratings, College Sports are no where near perfect, crooked officials, recruitment violations, dives, grades, etc. and those are just the people getting caught.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by charging_rhinos

    Let the little legshavers dope and inject all they want. Open it right up. It'd be pretty sweet to see little tendon-with-lungs guys spontaneously explode. It would be like Castelli-sponsored popcorn!!
    I support the right of all Americans to keep and arm bears.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowStorm
    What country are you from? In the states, Clenbuterol use is restricted to animals.

    FYI, there are many bronchodilators that are FDA approved (with multiple brand names).
    I guess I do not remember correctly. Something through a nebulizer. Does not matter though. Too much stuff that is on the banned list anyway. Excuse me for not caring.

    Yeah, I have read up on that stuff being overprescribed - we discussed it, and decided to do it once in that case to be on the safe side. It did help, and no problems since.

  60. #60
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    A & B samples positive? Guilty.

    There isn't really any way this stuff gets into your body by accident. I've read it's banned in EU food production. Add to that the food for TdF riders is prepared by a nutritionist/chef responsible for making sure the riders know about everything that goes into their body and the chances of it being accidental are nil. Of course Alberto could have a fetish for Chinese horse meat that none of us know about.

    My thoughts are that he got to the mountains, wasn't feeling strong enough to take Andy S, and decided to use the stuff after his test from the first mountain stage, probably to help with recovery. They could have planned on a small dose being out of his system before the rest day drug test. If the test was earlier than anticipated or the dose didn't work it's way out as predicted for some reason, there would still be trace amounts.

    If he gets out of this it's going to be a bigger scandal than the doping itself.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    I guess I do not remember correctly. Something through a nebulizer. Does not matter though. Too much stuff that is on the banned list anyway. Excuse me for not caring.

    Yeah, I have read up on that stuff being overprescribed - we discussed it, and decided to do it once in that case to be on the safe side. It did help, and no problems since.
    Probably Albuterol, mixed with saline. That's what I have for my nebulizer.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by frontierwolf
    A & B samples positive? Guilty.

    There isn't really any way this stuff gets into your body by accident. I've read it's banned in EU food production. Add to that the food for TdF riders is prepared by a nutritionist/chef responsible for making sure the riders know about everything that goes into their body and the chances of it being accidental are nil. Of course Alberto could have a fetish for Chinese horse meat that none of us know about.

    My thoughts are that he got to the mountains, wasn't feeling strong enough to take Andy S, and decided to use the stuff after his test from the first mountain stage, probably to help with recovery. They could have planned on a small dose being out of his system before the rest day drug test. If the test was earlier than anticipated or the dose didn't work it's way out as predicted for some reason, there would still be trace amounts.

    If he gets out of this it's going to be a bigger scandal than the doping itself.
    It is Cen, after all. It may help humans develop lean muscle mass, but the only thing it certainly does is reduce appetite and burns fat- things most cyclists don't want in the middle of a Tour. Given the fact that it was also in such trace amounts... The half life is pretty short- a day later they would have found half as much, which pretty much mean he had a blood transfusion the day before with unfortunate residual Cen, or it was a mistake.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by frontierwolf
    A & B samples positive? Guilty.

    There isn't really any way this stuff gets into your body by accident. I've read it's banned in EU food production. Add to that the food for TdF riders is prepared by a nutritionist/chef responsible for making sure the riders know about everything that goes into their body and the chances of it being accidental are nil. Of course Alberto could have a fetish for Chinese horse meat that none of us know about.

    My thoughts are that he got to the mountains, wasn't feeling strong enough to take Andy S, and decided to use the stuff after his test from the first mountain stage, probably to help with recovery. They could have planned on a small dose being out of his system before the rest day drug test. If the test was earlier than anticipated or the dose didn't work it's way out as predicted for some reason, there would still be trace amounts.

    If he gets out of this it's going to be a bigger scandal than the doping itself.
    Of course he's going to get off, he's 400 times lower than the WADA legal minimum. He could use Floyd Landis as his lawyer and still get off.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by charging_rhinos
    Why is this even news, honestly? It's not like it's some shock that they are all cheating, sinewy little coathanger-men, doing whatever it takes to win.

    I say either test them all every day, 3 times per day and burn all cheaters at the stake...

    OR

    Let the little legshavers dope and inject all they want. Open it right up. It'd be pretty sweet to see little tendon-with-lungs guys spontaneously explode. It would be like Castelli-sponsored popcorn!!
    Are you naive enough to think that MTBers don't dope????????

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuffink
    Of course he's going to get off, he's 400 times lower than the WADA legal minimum. He could use Floyd Landis as his lawyer and still get off.
    There is no legal minimum. Any found is illegal. It's just a lower amount than what they look for because they were using better testing equipment at a better lab.

    If you complain about asthma and your breathing, which is what Contador does every time he has a bad day, you're going to think that what helps you breathe better is going to help you recover better. Clen is used to help breathing, and they were in a region where the air is thinner, which effects breathing.

    It's probably that or the blood doping contamination theory. The main thing is, that unless he can provide a positive 'B' sample from a steak from the same cow, along with a paper trail tracing the delivery of that steak on the day he ate it, he's guilty.

    I guess WADA could always start drug testing cattle.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by frontierwolf
    There is no legal minimum. Any found is illegal. It's just a lower amount than what they look for because they were using better testing equipment at a better lab.

    If you complain about asthma and your breathing, which is what Contador does every time he has a bad day, you're going to think that what helps you breathe better is going to help you recover better. Clen is used to help breathing, and they were in a region where the air is thinner, which effects breathing.

    It's probably that or the blood doping contamination theory. The main thing is, that unless he can provide a positive 'B' sample from a steak from the same cow, along with a paper trail tracing the delivery of that steak on the day he ate it, he's guilty.

    I guess WADA could always start drug testing cattle.
    There's always a minimum level in drug and toxicology tests below which a confirmation test can not be considered accurate even if the screening test is positive. Below that level the chances of a false positive on the screening test become statistically significant.

  67. #67
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    Plastics were also found which indicate a transfusion, looks like he's a doper 4 sure!

    "L'Equipe reports that tests undertaken on the Spaniard's urine sample from the tour detected the presence of a plastic component that is found in blood transfusion bags"

    http://content.usatoday.com/communit...ew-suspicion/1

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    /\ Beat me .

    They found amounts of plasticizers that were 10 times above normal , clear signs of blood doping . So the amount of Clen may be extremely low , the supporting evidence may be what hangs him .

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown_Teeth
    Plastics were also found which indicate a transfusion, looks like he's a doper 4 sure!

    "L'Equipe reports that tests undertaken on the Spaniard's urine sample from the tour detected the presence of a plastic component that is found in blood transfusion bags"

    http://content.usatoday.com/communit...ew-suspicion/1
    Selective quoting, splendid. Can I have a go?

    From the linked article...
    L'Equipe says the method of testing for the plastic component hasn't been validated by anti-doping authorities yet.

  70. #70
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    But its evidence that can be used against him in the future, they busted many for CERA use after it took several years to come up with a test, or maybe Contador just ate the plastic bag that held that imported tainted Spanish beef too

  71. #71
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    I wonder how lance feels right about now
    Fortune favors the bold-Alexander the great

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brown_Teeth
    But its evidence that can be used against him in the future, they busted many for CERA use after it took several years to come up with a test, or maybe Contador just ate the plastic bag that held that imported tainted Spanish beef too
    Maybe. Or maybe the same plasticisers are used throughout the food packaging industry?



    Do you know?

  73. #73
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    Fortune favors the bold-Alexander the great

  74. #74
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    Re Bodybuilding.... an old room-mate used to compete.

    Clen is used for "cutting" - part of getting ready for a show.
    It helps in Fat metabolization - increasing the bodies ability to burn stored fats.
    It also helps supress appetite, so the severe calroie limiting during show prep is a bit more tolerable.

    As for cycling use, not sure what the beneffit would be, unless he gets quite rotund in the off-season and uses to get down to fighting weight... Not the best bronc-dialator so...

    michael

  75. #75
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    The cow did it .

  76. #76
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    ^^^Here's my opinion of what happened.
    Contador used Clen over the Winter to keep lean and maintain muscle mass. He pulled blood out to be frozen.
    The frozen blood was tainted with the Clen. The blood was transfused the night before the rest day in Pau. He was tested the next day.
    AC knew the half-life of the Clen was 24 hours, so he wasn't concerned.
    He did the testing and popped...
    Fortune favors the bold-Alexander the great

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitbull592
    I wonder how lance feels right about now

    he's loving every minute of it.

  78. #78
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    Don't discount the testing. Just because the value is below the minimum detection abilities required to be met by UCI, it doesn't mean it is a false positive. In my line of work, I have samples being tested in the parts per quadrillion range... if the results are <2x the method detection limit, then its reliability on one sample is suspect. If A and B samples came back with a hit, it is far more likely a "real" number....that's why they have 2 samples.

    With the EU having given this substance the boot for food production, it seems more likely that Conti packed in some red cells from earlier in the season to supercharge his way into that next, very important mountain stage...I'd guess that blood was likely tained from earlier use of the drug or by plasticizers in the plastic of the blood bag.
    As if four times wasn't enough-> Psycho Mike's 2013 Ride to Conquer Cancer Page

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  79. #79
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    No big surprises here
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  80. #80
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    1/400, months after the tour, passed though all the tests during the actual tour, sounds like contamination because it's such a miniscule amount.Why are they even continuing to test after the race is over? they are staying in the news though,bicycling grabs another headline,a bit of controversy.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by charging_rhinos

    I say either test them all every day, 3 times per day and burn all cheaters at the stake...

    OR

    Let the little legshavers dope and inject all they want. Open it right up. It'd be pretty sweet to see little tendon-with-lungs guys spontaneously explode. It would be like Castelli-sponsored popcorn!!
    lol

    Would people still watch if they opened it up and made it like top fuel cycling?
    Sure they would
    Falling down is part of LIFE…Getting back up is LIVING…

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitanan
    lol

    Would people still watch if they opened it up and made it like top fuel cycling?
    Sure they would
    Yeah, from the side of the road, because all the sponsors and TV would drop it like a stone.

  83. #83
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    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lequ...-over-contador

    It's over for this doper I'm sure.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitbull592
    ^^^Here's my opinion of what happened.
    Contador used Clen over the Winter to keep lean and maintain muscle mass. He pulled blood out to be frozen.
    The frozen blood was tainted with the Clen. The blood was transfused the night before the rest day in Pau. He was tested the next day.
    AC knew the half-life of the Clen was 24 hours, so he wasn't concerned.
    He did the testing and popped...
    Sounds like a plan.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by 202cycle
    Put a fork in him he's done, now lets see if he gets the same treatment as Landis?
    Fortune favors the bold-Alexander the great

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatshowiroll
    Are you naive enough to think that MTBers don't dope????????
    Meirhaeghe.

  87. #87
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    It was 40x less than the minimum level that the machine has to be capable of detecting. The level referred to is purely related to the machine's specifications and has nothing to do with what's legal or not.

    WADA doesn't have a minimum level for clenbuterol. Any detectable trace is illegal until they set a threshold limit, which they don't have.

    The plastic thing pretty much nails it though. They developed the test for levels from blood transfusions vs a control group. Unless everyone in the control group was avoiding food in plastic packaging then they know what blood bag chemical levels are going to be.

  88. #88
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    I think any rider who is not a Vegan should be disqualified from the Tour. It's the only way.
    "You can't discern by calculating in your mind how it will work. You have to feel how it rides differently to understand."

  89. #89
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    As a bike rider and fan of bike racing, both road and off-road, it just gets worser and worser.
    First, Alberto is innocent until proven guilty, but the rules clearly state that every racer is responsible for what goes into his/her body, no lower limit.
    The positive could be from Euro beef; Clenbuterol is still used in some countries to produce lean meat.
    Then again, there are masking drugs that prevent detection of steroids and how about this: Contador uses Clenbuterol prior to the Tour and saves a bag or two of blood for the rest days. The drugs are in such a small concentration that only the most sophisticated medical equipment can detect it, Contador's team doesn't have that equipment and figures the blood is OK. Plastic in his blood? Might be from a transfusion bag, might be from a coffee cup.
    Looks like another big doping scandal; bike racing is going backwards.

  90. #90
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    everybody in profesional sports use something and they do because this drugs works

  91. #91
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    No matter if it is just an accidental ingestion, other riders this year have been banned for the same drug at the same levels. Notably the rider that was on the Radioshack team prior to the TDF.

    With that precedent...dont know how UCI is going to be able to go easy on Contador. It is their own precedent.
    Originally Posted by XC62701
    Agreed...make it longer. I want to know death is an option

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