Poll: Would you be interested in being a Brand Ambassador

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  1. #1
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    Brand Ambassadors

    So my search for a new bike lead me all over the place. I'm fortunate enough to do some traveling for work and visit Denver a couple times a year. Last trip there I took a day and rented a Guerrilla Gravity Megatrail and Smash and was impressed with both. Flash forward six months and I'm ready to buy... cash in the bank... eager to buy so I can stop LOOKING. The Hightower LT and Carbine both piqued my interest as well and I found a dealer all the way across town that rented both. I rented a Hightower LT and didn't love it. Looking at the geometry specs the Carbine would be similar so I skipped renting it.

    This brought me back in contact with Guerrilla Gravity. I was hoping to find somewhere local to rent a Smash on my home trails and I learned they have a program called their Brand Ambassador and Motivated Freeseller program. It is a group of GG riders that are willing to meet people, show them their GG rig, and even allow people to demo their bike. Enthusiastic riders eager to spread the stoke all in the name of growing the Guerrilla Gravity brand.

    This Brand Ambassador program is pure genius. Of course, speaking honestly, they have to have something like this because just about NO ONE sells GG bikes.

    This lead me to wonder why there isn't a network of Brand Ambassadors for ALL bikes? Well, most... Let's face it you can't throw a stick in most towns without hitting a Specialized, Trek, or Giant dealer. But there are so many great brands that you rarely see in an LBS: Evil, Y&T, Ibis, Turner, Canyon, Banshee, Canfield, Nukeproof. A lot of great bikes that many people won't buy because they can't see them in person, let alone give them a spin.

    It seems to me that this COULD be a valuable database to have available to MTBers provided there are enough people that would be willing to spread the stoke like GG's BAMFs are. Who would be interested in spreading the stoke for your brand like this?

    To update on how I see it working:

    I go to my home AZ Forum and ask, "Has anyone tried this bike?"

    Chances are pretty good that someone owns this particular bike. And chances are also pretty good that I know that person, know of that person, or know someone that knows that person. Between everyone involved the introductions are made and, if the owner feels comfortable, I now get to look at and maybe even ride the bike I'm curious about.

    No manufacturers are involved.
    No one gets a discount.
    No one gets a kick back.
    No one gets a bonus.
    No one gets any swag.

    Everyone simply walks away knowing they did a good thing by helping someone else narrow down their bike choice.


    Most of us are cool people.
    Most of us enjoy riding socially.
    Most of us think our brand of bike is pretty damn good.
    Most of us enjoy helping others and spreading the stoke of riding.

    Pretty simple concept that I think a lot of people would be willing to do.
    Last edited by big0mike; 02-08-2018 at 12:55 PM.

  2. #2
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    I just saw that on their site the other day and thought it was interesting (I was looking for a dealer to demo). Interesting concept. I wonder how many they have and what kind of kickbacks you get for getting someone on their bikes?

  3. #3
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    No interest, at all. I've done some testing/reviewing of products in the past. I have no desire to be someone's shill (maybe that is because I am financially stable?)
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by baker View Post
    I have no desire to be someone's shill




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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by baker View Post
    No interest, at all. I've done some testing/reviewing of products in the past. I have no desire to be someone's shill (maybe that is because I am financially stable?)
    I think you misunderstand the "mission" of what I'm getting at. BAMFs are shilling for GG, certainly. They get some form of a kickback and there's nothing wrong with that regardless of financially stability. We get beat up badly every time we buy one. There's nothing wrong with trying to get them cheaper or getting a kickback for encouraging others to buy a bike you truly believe is a great bike.

    What I'm talking about is one mountain biker helping out another.

    We see threads day after day asking about this bike or that bike or one compared to another. They are almost always filled with opinions of someone that doesn't have the experience of the OP or have trails resembling what the OP would ride. I'm in Arizona and opinions from east coast riders with all your trees and loam may not really reflect what I would need in my rocky, cactusy terrain. It would be awesome if I could post a thread somewhere saying, "I'm interested in an Evil Wreckoning but I don't know what size I'd need. Anyone have one I can sit on?" and there would be one or more riders in your area that will let you sit on theirs or even take it for a spin.

  6. #6
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    I know JC Wages was a BA for Intense and I ran into another BA for Intense at my local trail system. Before that, I never knew they existed. I'd be interested in doing it as well but if I have to let people ride my bike, I better be getting the bike for a ridiculous bargain. I'm getting ready to buy a Tracer and casually asked the Intense rep if they needed any ambassadors at the moment but he didn't even reply so I guess not.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    I know JC Wages was a BA for Intense and I ran into another BA for Intense at my local trail system. Before that, I never knew they existed. I'd be interested in doing it as well but if I have to let people ride my bike, I better be getting the bike for a ridiculous bargain. I'm getting ready to buy a Tracer and casually asked the Intense rep if they needed any ambassadors at the moment but he didn't even reply so I guess not.
    That's a fair comment. As I noted above this endeavor would be a voluntary effort on everyone's part so you wouldn't be getting a discount. Just a happy feeling knowing you helped someone make the best bike purchase decision they could. Just spreading the stoke! I have no problem with anyone saying, "ain't no one riding my $5000 bike."

  8. #8
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    As a brand ambassador for KTM, there are no requirements to have anyone ride the bike.
    They simply want you to buy a bike, ride or race it, and make comments on it, make social media posts, and generally get it out there for people to see.

    The "kickback" is a nice discount on the bike (s) and the ability to be some of the first people on them! There are two new ones coming out, that if desired, we would be first on the list to get and ride them in the US.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    I think you misunderstand the "mission" of what I'm getting at. BAMFs are shilling for GG, certainly. They get some form of a kickback and there's nothing wrong with that regardless of financially stability. We get beat up badly every time we buy one. There's nothing wrong with trying to get them cheaper or getting a kickback for encouraging others to buy a bike you truly believe is a great bike.

    What I'm talking about is one mountain biker helping out another.

    We see threads day after day asking about this bike or that bike or one compared to another. They are almost always filled with opinions of someone that doesn't have the experience of the OP or have trails resembling what the OP would ride. I'm in Arizona and opinions from east coast riders with all your trees and loam may not really reflect what I would need in my rocky, cactusy terrain. It would be awesome if I could post a thread somewhere saying, "I'm interested in an Evil Wreckoning but I don't know what size I'd need. Anyone have one I can sit on?" and there would be one or more riders in your area that will let you sit on theirs or even take it for a spin.
    I could sign up for that.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Remember IBEX?
    No, I have no idea what IBEX is...

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    As a brand ambassador for KTM, there are no requirements to have anyone ride the bike.
    They simply want you to buy a bike, ride or race it, and make comments on it, make social media posts, and generally get it out there for people to see.

    The "kickback" is a nice discount on the bike (s) and the ability to be some of the first people on them! There are two new ones coming out, that if desired, we would be first on the list to get and ride them in the US.
    A guy I grew up with (and occasionally MTB with) got hired last year to be the/a special events coordinator for KTM. He is currently going to all the Supercross races and hangs out at the demo rig where they all the bikes out for people to come slobber all over. He was already a KTM guy so aside from a regular paycheck (and a KTM Sprinter to drive), I'm not sure what his discounts are. He's loving it but too much travel for my tastes.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    As a brand ambassador for KTM, there are no requirements to have anyone ride the bike.
    They simply want you to buy a bike, ride or race it, and make comments on it, make social media posts, and generally get it out there for people to see.

    The "kickback" is a nice discount on the bike (s) and the ability to be some of the first people on them! There are two new ones coming out, that if desired, we would be first on the list to get and ride them in the US.
    That would be perfectly acceptable as well. This would be a 100% voluntary endeavor so each rider would be free to do as much or as little to help other riders in their bike quest.

    Myself, I've offered to let my buddy ride my brand new Sentinel that I have a total of three rides on because he's in the market and mentioned an interest in it. Now if I got an email or private message from a stranger it is likely that I would not be as generous. And that's understandable and acceptable.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    A guy I grew up with (and occasionally MTB with) got hired last year to be the/a special events coordinator for KTM. He is currently going to all the Supercross races and hangs out at the demo rig where they all the bikes out for people to come slobber all over. He was already a KTM guy so aside from a regular paycheck (and a KTM Sprinter to drive), I'm not sure what his discounts are. He's loving it but too much travel for my tastes.

    I rode KTM MX bikes since 2001. Had 3 of them, so when I had to stop MX, I wanted to be involved somehow!
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  14. #14
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    I would do it, but I'm not the right guy for the job. My bike set-up is pretty much one-off, and I keep my bikes wayyyy too long. I'm never riding the "latest thing". Plus, they all break.
    It's a great idea, though. On the rare occasion that someone takes an interest in my bike, I will let them ride it (assuming they pass my version of a background check).

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
    I would do it, but I'm not the right guy for the job. My bike set-up is pretty much one-off, and I keep my bikes wayyyy too long.
    This is likely a possibility for many people. But, if I were to sit on your bike and realize your seat could move forward another 20mm and I could replace your 200mm stem with a 50mm and it would probably fit me, then you would have served the purpose of Bike Ambassador.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
    I'm never riding the "latest thing".
    This could be a problem since this really only pertains to NEW bikes. If someone is selling a used bike then you already know where to try it out

  16. #16
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    I know a few brand ambassadors.

    The way most companies run their programs, there are commitments you have to meet. The friends I know doing it have to organize a certain number of events for people to attend, because the focus on the programs they're in is getting people on bikes and riding, and a secondary goal is to get those people interested in that brand's products. For larger events, they might coordinate with a shop or a manufacturer's demo truck to have demo bikes available, but not always.

    I'm generally pretty willing to let folks check out my bikes if they're interested in buying one. But I only want to do so on my terms. I don't really want the manufacturer or anyone else handing out my info to people who are then going to reach out to me whenever. I'm also the sort of person who rides a bike for awhile. So I'm not often on the latest version of whatever. And for that matter, I tend these days towards building it up myself, so I'm not going to be riding anyone's stock build.

  17. #17
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    I've done some on a smaller scale. And, in a way, I am for my LBS. I'm willing to make the commitment. But really, you have to provide something special; big social media presence, GREAT race results that gain attention, etc. Just being passionate isn't enough, and that's about the best I can truly provide.

    Most "Ambassador" programs just give a discount. You can make it work to your benefit, but it isn't worth it to me to advertise like crazy for a brand who is still making money off me buying their bike, just at a big discount.

    On that note, while I will be honest about positive/negative experiences with stuff I pay for, I don't go out and hashtag the shit out of my posts for them. I paid for those parts, I'm not going to advertise them for free. But, again, I'm not special enough.

    I just looked and saw that GG doesn't have an XC bike. While yes, I normally ride an enduro bike, I race XC and take it very seriously.

  18. #18
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    If the bike / bike part does its job well, I have no issues sharing my experiences with another fellow mtb'r. The part about loaning my bike(s) out for test rides, not happening. The sponsor would need to provide demo gear per gratis for that to occur.

    In mtb retail and certain groups, Experticity.com has a brand ambassador program. I have been fortunate to be part of it the last few years.

  19. #19
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    Let someone ride my bike...at full price...for warm fuzzies? You can't be serious. You have to spend money to make money.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    The way most companies run their programs, there are commitments you have to meet. The friends I know doing it have to organize a certain number of events for people to attend, because the focus on the programs they're in is getting people on bikes and riding, and a secondary goal is to get those people interested in that brand's products. For larger events, they might coordinate with a shop or a manufacturer's demo truck to have demo bikes available, but not always.
    That's why this would not be any particular brand's program.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I'm generally pretty willing to let folks check out my bikes if they're interested in buying one. But I only want to do so on my terms. I don't really want the manufacturer or anyone else handing out my info to people who are then going to reach out to me whenever.
    Exactly what I'm thinking of. There'd be a big list and someone would search their area for the bike they are thinking of buying. They shoot you an email and you two meet up IF you want, WHEN you want, and WHERE you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewalk View Post
    Most "Ambassador" programs just give a discount. You can make it work to your benefit, but it isn't worth it to me to advertise like crazy for a brand who is still making money off me buying their bike, just at a big discount.
    There will be no YOU or ME making this work and the ONLY benefit would be to the MTB Community as a whole. It would just be a network of people that wouldn't mind meeting someone so they can check out their bike when they can't find a dealer anywhere near them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewalk View Post
    On that note, while I will be honest about positive/negative experiences with stuff I pay for, I don't go out and hashtag the shit out of my posts for them. I paid for those parts, I'm not going to advertise them for free.
    This wouldn't be anything like that unless you wanted to.

    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    If the bike / bike part does its job well, I have no issues sharing my experiences with another fellow mtb'r. The part about loaning my bike(s) out for test rides, not happening. The sponsor would need to provide demo gear per gratis for that to occur.
    Again, there's NO sponsor. LOANing your bike out would be up to you and my thought is not "yeah, come get my bike and bring it back in 3 hours." It would be more like "Let's meet at a trailhead and go for a ride. At some point we can switch rides so you can see what you think." And, again, it would be up to you if you wanted to talk to this person, meet this person, let them sit on your bike, and let them ride your bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    Let someone ride my bike...at full price...for warm fuzzies? You can't be serious. You have to spend money to make money.
    There's no money being made so no money will be spent. To each his own. I'd be happy to let a buddy try my bike out if I knew it would help them make a $3k to $5k decision. A complete stranger? Not unless they came vetted by someone I personally know very well.

  21. #21
    BOOM goes the dynamite!
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    There's no money being made so no money will be spent. To each his own. I'd be happy to let a buddy try my bike out if I knew it would help them make a $3k to $5k decision. A complete stranger? Not unless they came vetted by someone I personally know very well.
    No money made? If someone buys a 5K bike? And you want these ambassadors to buy one, too? Next thread title should be "bridge ambassadors".

    No way a salesman works for free, which is essentially what you're asking for.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    No money made? If someone buys a 5K bike? And you want these ambassadors to buy one, too? Next thread title should be "bridge ambassadors". No way a salesman works for free, which is essentially what you're asking for.
    You really aren't listening or didn't read everything I've typed so I'm not sure this is actually worth trying to explain again but here goes. It's really simple so don't overthink it:

    Guy in your town wants to buy a bike that's not available anywhere near or online only.
    You have this bike in his size.
    Guy contacts you says, "can I check out your bike."
    You say, "sure, I'll be riding from this trail head at this time."
    Guy meets you, looks at your bike, maybe sits on it for size. Maybe you let him ride it briefly. Maybe not. Doesn't matter.
    Guy leaves knowing if the bike in that size fits, if it looks good, maybe even knows if it rides good.
    You leave knowing you helped a fellow rider narrow his choice. It didn't cost you anything but a few minutes of your time.

    This would have nothing to do with SALES. No direct association with any manufacturer. It's about helping other riders out with their purchasing decision.

  23. #23
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    Maybe you should look up a service called "spinlister". Sorta like an Airbnb for bikes. There is a asimilar one for people to rent out their rv's.

    And you DO get to make money when someone rents your stuff.

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Maybe you should look up a service called "spinlister". Sorta like an Airbnb for bikes. There is a asimilar one for people to rent out their rv's.

    And you DO get to make money when someone rents your stuff.
    That actually looks really cool. I like the fact that they at least attempt to verify people's trustworthiness and you're protected against damage and theft up to $10K. It'd at least be a deterrent to the craigslist mugging style criminals. Plus, you get a little cash for the trouble and added maintenance.

  25. #25
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    I would do this, if there was a decent bro deal on the bike and commission on bikes sold by my referral. It helps that I live in a destination area with two bike parks, with one that's lift accessed, and several trail systems close by. If it was worth it, I'd pick up both a DH and Enduro platform. I would handle it as a demo program and just sell and replace the bikes before they were too toasted.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Maybe you should look up a service called "spinlister". Sorta like an Airbnb for bikes.
    That's pretty cool. I've bookmarked for when traveling... I may have to sign up my old bike for sh|ts and giggles...

    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    I like the fact that they at least attempt to verify people's trustworthiness and you're protected against damage and theft up to $10K. It'd at least be a deterrent to the craigslist mugging style criminals.
    That's a totally legitimate concern and precisely why I would have no problem swapping bikes for a segment or two with a buddy but would shy away from letting any type of cold call ride my bike. To me, that would be the biggest hurdle with this idea.

    But, what I'm thinking of is NOT a bike rental service. Or a bike selling service. Or a way for anyone to make money. Just a bunch of cool people willing to share the stoke and let people check out a bike that they wouldn't normally have access to.

    Now that I'm thinking about it that may be the biggest problem: getting enough cool people together that are willing to share their excitement for whatever bike they happen to ride without having to make money off of just being a cool person.

  27. #27
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    Having talked with multiple outdoor gear companies about similar programs, and having seen these programs in action myself, I have a couple of comments:

    - Unless someone is actively managing the program and monitoring the "ambassadors" constantly, people tend to ditch their commitments pretty quickly. You get that initial benefit of a cheap/discounted bike, and then when you realize that's it, most people stop contributing and disengage completely. Money talks.

    - In a large majority of cases, the company doesn't get much of a benefit at all from having an ambassador program. Most times it's a company's way of trying to get a bunch of exposure "cheaply", but there's very rarely an actual return on the discounts and gear they're handing out.

    - Unless you're directly tracking resultant sales and measuring contributions based on some point system (giving credit for FB and IG posts, for example), it's really, really hard to measure ROI on these programs. The successful programs tend to utilize "semi-pro" athletes as their ambassadors; people who race, or have a lot of social media followers, so the brands are getting more awareness and exposure than actual in-person contacts.

  28. #28
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    Brand Ambassadors

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I would do this, if there was a decent bro deal on the bike and commission on bikes sold by my referral. It helps that I live in a destination area with two bike parks, with one that's lift accessed, and several trail systems close by. If it was worth it, I'd pick up both a DH and Enduro platform. I would handle it as a demo program and just sell and replace the bikes before they were too toasted.
    As a brand ambassador for Guerrilla Gravity, I will meet at bike parks for someone to check it out for a few minutes for sizing and even possibly do a couple of runs. But itís not a full loan my bike out for an hour or longer ride.

    Itís not a full on demo a bike for a day for freeóI wouldnít have signed up for this if this was the case.

    I also ride an XS, and thatís not always an easy fit to find. For me, I was debating between a transition scout and the GG shred dogg, and it definitely went in GGís favor since their local ambassador let me try out the bike for a couple runs. I couldnít find a transition to even stand over for sizing. So if I can help someone else decide on fit, great.

    It wasnít a stock build i test rode. Neither is my bike. People can throw a leg over and get an idea.

    That said, this is my first year doing this, so we will see how it goes. Right now, I like doing this. I have the time as well. While Iím aware that could change, itís a fun thing for me to participate in.
    Guerrilla Gravity BAMF, Colorado Front Range
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    You really aren't listening or didn't read everything I've typed so I'm not sure this is actually worth trying to explain again but here goes. It's really simple so don't overthink it:

    Guy in your town wants to buy a bike that's not available anywhere near or online only.
    You have this bike in his size.
    Guy contacts you says, "can I check out your bike."
    You say, "sure, I'll be riding from this trail head at this time."
    Guy meets you, looks at your bike, maybe sits on it for size. Maybe you let him ride it briefly. Maybe not. Doesn't matter.
    Guy leaves knowing if the bike in that size fits, if it looks good, maybe even knows if it rides good.
    You leave knowing you helped a fellow rider narrow his choice. It didn't cost you anything but a few minutes of your time.

    This would have nothing to do with SALES. No direct association with any manufacturer. It's about helping other riders out with their purchasing decision.
    It gets worse every time you try to explain it.

    There is a new local shop that is a taproom/cafe, repair shop and has demo Whyte Bikes. You demo and if you like it, order one on line. They only keep a small number of bikes on hand so no need for all the space.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    Again, there's NO sponsor. LOANing your bike out would be up to you and my thought is not "yeah, come get my bike and bring it back in 3 hours." It would be more like "Let's meet at a trailhead and go for a ride. At some point we can switch rides so you can see what you think."
    Yeah, I'm gonna change my vote to negative. No way an unknown person is riding a personal bike. Bro-in-law, sure. Old friend from college, yup. Wack-a-doodle rider from the inter-web, not a chance.

  31. #31
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    Having seen some brand ambassadors ride in person, I'm a little leery of the idea. It's one thing to have a nice IG account full of pics featuring you, your partner, cute dog and Sprinter in X, Y and Z scenic locations, "shredding".

    Then, on the ground, it turns out they're slower than molasses in winter. I realize that speed isn't the only quality in a good brand representative, but if someone can't ride a bike particularly well, their opinions on the various qualities of a bike are irrelevant to me. Telling me how plush the suspension is after picking your way down a descent at 2/3rds my speed doesn't mean much. Sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    Having talked with multiple outdoor gear companies about similar programs, and having seen these programs in action myself, I have a couple of comments:

    - Unless someone is actively managing the program and monitoring the "ambassadors" constantly, people tend to ditch their commitments pretty quickly. You get that initial benefit of a cheap/discounted bike, and then when you realize that's it, most people stop contributing and disengage completely. Money talks.

    - In a large majority of cases, the company doesn't get much of a benefit at all from having an ambassador program. Most times it's a company's way of trying to get a bunch of exposure "cheaply", but there's very rarely an actual return on the discounts and gear they're handing out.

    - Unless you're directly tracking resultant sales and measuring contributions based on some point system (giving credit for FB and IG posts, for example), it's really, really hard to measure ROI on these programs. The successful programs tend to utilize "semi-pro" athletes as their ambassadors; people who race, or have a lot of social media followers, so the brands are getting more awareness and exposure than actual in-person contacts.
    It sounds like these companies need to invest in the program a little deeper beyond just swag. Stickers and a T shirt aren't going to keep me interested. A commission will have me yelling your company's name from the top of the lifts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Having seen some brand ambassadors ride in person, I'm a little leery of the idea. It's one thing to have a nice IG account full of pics featuring you, your partner, cute dog and Sprinter in X, Y and Z scenic locations, "shredding".

    Then, on the ground, it turns out they're slower than molasses in winter. I realize that speed isn't the only quality in a good brand representative, but if someone can't ride a bike particularly well, their opinions on the various qualities of a bike are irrelevant to me. Telling me how plush the suspension is after picking your way down a descent at 2/3rds my speed doesn't mean much. Sorry.

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    Brand Ambassadors fill a different role than pro racers, so don't expect them to be something like that. It depends on what the manufacturer really wants out of an ambassador, but many times, the manufacturers are after the attention of a different set of people than pro racers generate. The brand ambassadors I know almost never talk about the bike they're riding. The ones I know are essentially given a bike to demo for a year, after which point they can buy it as used or return it to the mfr.

    I know one brand ambassador who is a former RAAM finisher and who got a podium at 24hr Worlds at least once. You can't tell me that she's not fast.

    Seriously, what's your deal with fast riders, anyway? Your post history here makes it clear that you like to race and ride fast. Are you one of those people that can't dial it back and ride any other way? The majority of people don't ride that way. And the way I understand brand ambassadors, the whole point of their existence is to bring out yet more people that don't ride the way you do. Most brand ambassadors exist to show newbies that you don't have to ride fast or race to enjoy mountain biking. Maybe eventually some will, but that's not the goal.

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    only 2 brand ambassadors I know are slow as molasses

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Brand Ambassadors fill a different role than pro racers, so don't expect them to be something like that. It depends on what the manufacturer really wants out of an ambassador, but many times, the manufacturers are after the attention of a different set of people than pro racers generate. The brand ambassadors I know almost never talk about the bike they're riding. The ones I know are essentially given a bike to demo for a year, after which point they can buy it as used or return it to the mfr.

    I know one brand ambassador who is a former RAAM finisher and who got a podium at 24hr Worlds at least once. You can't tell me that she's not fast.

    Seriously, what's your deal with fast riders, anyway? Your post history here makes it clear that you like to race and ride fast. Are you one of those people that can't dial it back and ride any other way? The majority of people don't ride that way. And the way I understand brand ambassadors, the whole point of their existence is to bring out yet more people that don't ride the way you do. Most brand ambassadors exist to show newbies that you don't have to ride fast or race to enjoy mountain biking. Maybe eventually some will, but that's not the goal.
    I understand that brand ambassadors and pro racers are not necessarily the same thing. I didn't suggest that at any point. But, at some level, unless companies are simply into giving out free or heavily discounted bikes for fun, the goal is to sell bikes. Brand ambassadors help do that, theoretically at least, in several ways.

    When someone who rides a bike in a completely different manner than me tells me that Bike X is better than Bike Y because of A, B and C, it's not something that enters my decision making calculus when buying a new product. I get that they love their bike, and that's great, but they aren't going to convince me on a bike decision.

    I go on social rides all the time. Some fast, some slow. I'm a human, not a robot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes View Post
    As a brand ambassador for Guerrilla Gravity, I will meet at bike parks for someone to check it out for a few minutes for sizing and even possibly do a couple of runs. But itís not a full loan my bike out for an hour or longer ride.

    Itís not a full on demo a bike for a day for freeóI wouldnít have signed up for this if this was the case.

    I also ride an XS, and thatís not always an easy fit to find. For me, I was debating between a transition scout and the GG shred dogg, and it definitely went in GGís favor since their local ambassador let me try out the bike for a couple runs. I couldnít find a transition to even stand over for sizing. So if I can help someone else decide on fit, great.
    Yeah, you get it. All the negatives can't seem to get past the idea that they've made up in their own mind that I'm suggesting people loan their bikes to strangers for days...

    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    Yeah, I'm gonna change my vote to negative. No way an unknown person is riding a personal bike. Bro-in-law, sure. Old friend from college, yup. Wack-a-doodle rider from the inter-web, not a chance.
    Again, l said each case will depend on the rider and the person wishing to check out the ride. I wouldn't let a stranger from the interwebs ride mine if they didn't have some kind of reference from someone I trust. I'll let anyone check it out and even sit on it for size.

    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    It gets worse every time you try to explain it.
    Sounds like it's not for you then. That's fine...

    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    There is a new local shop that is a taproom/cafe, repair shop and has demo Whyte Bikes. You demo and if you like it, order one on line. They only keep a small number of bikes on hand so no need for all the space.
    That's actually a pretty good business model. But, so what? That doesn't have any bearing on this conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    Having talked with multiple outdoor gear companies about similar programs, and having seen these programs in action myself, I have a couple of comments:

    - Unless someone is actively managing the program and monitoring the "ambassadors" constantly, people tend to ditch their commitments pretty quickly. You get that initial benefit of a cheap/discounted bike, and then when you realize that's it, most people stop contributing and disengage completely. Money talks.
    The management of the list is certainly a concern. But, since I've said repeatedly, this is NOT a dealer or manufacturer sponsored program so there's no need for money to do any talking. This would be a peer to peer system of people who like to ride, think their bike is pretty damn good at what it's designed to do, and don't mind sharing their opinions and letting someone see, sit on, and maybe even ride their bike. All of this on a CASE by CASE basis. Completely voluntary. Nothing is mandatory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Having seen some brand ambassadors ride in person, I'm a little leery of the idea. It's one thing to have a nice IG account full of pics featuring you, your partner, cute dog and Sprinter in X, Y and Z scenic locations, "shredding".

    Then, on the ground, it turns out they're slower than molasses in winter. I realize that speed isn't the only quality in a good brand representative, but if someone can't ride a bike particularly well, their opinion on the various qualities of a bike are irrelevant to me. Telling me how plush the suspension is after picking your way down a descent at 2/3rds my speed doesn't mean much. Sorry.
    The only quality a Brand Ambassador needs to have is they own the bike someone else would like to see. If you are looking for an Evil Wreckoning you'd have to be an idiot to NOT know plenty about it. Why would it matter if the person owning it rides it on XC trails only? You already know what it's capable of.

    But, to your larger point, yes... someone that talks a big game about how well a bike climbs, descends, and otherwise rides, but, in reality, does none of that particularly well, is someone who's opinion would be less than ideal. As mentioned before, it's the buyer's job of knowing what bike they need. That's where it would be helpful if these ambassadors would allow a quick run on their bikes. But, as I've noted many times so far, I totally get people NOT wanting to do this with complete strangers.

    Quote Originally Posted by RajunCajun44 View Post
    only 2 brand ambassadors I know are slow as molasses
    Precisely why I would be a terrible Brand Ambassador... Little Girl Leg Syndrome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    I understand that brand ambassadors and pro racers are not necessarily the same thing. I didn't suggest that at any point. But, at some level, unless companies are simply into giving out free or heavily discounted bikes for fun, the goal is to sell bikes. Brand ambassadors help do that, theoretically at least, in several ways.
    AGAIN... this would NOT be any company trying to sell bikes. This would be a peer to peer group of riders interested in helping each other out with a very expensive decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    When someone who rides a bike in a completely different manner than me tells me that Bike X is better than Bike Y because of A, B and C, it's not something that enters my decision making calculus when buying a new product. I get that they love their bike, and that's great, but they aren't going to convince me on a bike decision.
    And it would not be a Brand Ambassador's (under my definition of what I'd be trying to accomplish) job to convince anyone of anything. It would be their job to let others see a bike that they otherwise could not. It's the buyers job to know what they need. Not anyone else's job to convince them of something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    I understand that brand ambassadors and pro racers are not necessarily the same thing. I didn't suggest that at any point. But, at some level, unless companies are simply into giving out free or heavily discounted bikes for fun, the goal is to sell bikes. Brand ambassadors help do that, theoretically at least, in several ways.

    When someone who rides a bike in a completely different manner than me tells me that Bike X is better than Bike Y because of A, B and C, it's not something that enters my decision making calculus when buying a new product. I get that they love their bike, and that's great, but they aren't going to convince me on a bike decision.

    I go on social rides all the time. Some fast, some slow. I'm a human, not a robot.

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    The point is that they're not really supposed to be convincing you to alter a bike decision based on their input, especially if they ride very differently from you. If that's the way the particular ambassador is treating their gig, then they're not really doing it right.

    Forgive me for thinking that you are only able to ride fast, and no other way. I've met people who ARE like that (quite a few, actually - to the point that they get annoyed about riding with slower riders, even when THEY invite known slower riders out), and your posts on mtbr in general led me to develop that impression about you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    The point is that they're not really supposed to be convincing you to alter a bike decision based on their input, especially if they ride very differently from you. If that's the way the particular ambassador is treating their gig, then they're not really doing it right.

    Forgive me for thinking that you are only able to ride fast, and no other way. I've met people who ARE like that (quite a few, actually - to the point that they get annoyed about riding with slower riders, even when THEY invite known slower riders out), and your posts on mtbr in general led me to develop that impression about you.
    Oh, I like to ride fast. I also like to ride slowly. Short, or long. Solo, or with a big group.

    My general point can by illustrated like this:

    Steve wants to know about bike packing bikes. Mike races XC every weekend, Joe is the Pro DH state champ, and Bob is a 3x Tour Divide finisher. All three are great, positive, out going guys who convey a positive image for the brands they represent. They've all been doing it a long time.

    Steve should probably lend more credence to the experience and opinion of Bob than Mike or Joe.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    The point is that they're not really supposed to be convincing you to alter a bike decision based on their input, especially if they ride very differently from you. If that's the way the particular ambassador is treating their gig, then they're not really doing it right.
    Steve wants to know about bike packing bikes. Mike races XC every weekend, Joe is the Pro DH state champ, and Bob is a 3x Tour Divide finisher. All three are great, positive, out going guys who convey a positive image for the brands they represent. They've all been doing it a long time.

    Steve should probably lend more credence to the experience and opinion of Bob than Mike or Joe.
    Both of you are correct on both points...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    My general point can by illustrated like this:

    Steve wants to know about bike packing bikes. Mike races XC every weekend, Joe is the Pro DH state champ, and Bob is a 3x Tour Divide finisher. All three are great, positive, out going guys who convey a positive image for the brands they represent. They've all been doing it a long time.

    Steve should probably lend more credence to the experience and opinion of Bob than Mike or Joe.
    No kidding?

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    So sure. When the brand GIVES me a bike, I'll do all the promo they want.

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    I get what the OP is saying, what I read wasnít so much a person being an ambassador for a brand and having to meet people and loan his/her bike out. What I pictured in my head as I read it was more of an app based program where you put in your location and bike details. Someone in the area can search for a bike theyíre interested in and if thereís a match then the two can arrange to meet up and do a quick ride together, switching bikes so the other person can ride a bike theyíre thinking about buying.

  43. #43
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    KTM had an ambassador program, you get a discount on your KTM bike and gear to show others your stuff; don't remember if you had to let others ride your bike.

    Growler also had an ambassador program going but don't know the details about it.
    Last edited by DiRt DeViL; 02-08-2018 at 01:24 PM.

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    If the brand isn't involved, then how does that make them a "brand ambassador?" Sounds more like an altruistic fan-boy (or fan-girl) database.

    Personally, I would not be interested in the hassle of meeting some rando from the internet to talk about my bike without some sort of compensation besides warm fuzzy feelings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deep Thought View Post
    If the brand isn't involved, then how does that make them a "brand ambassador?" Sounds more like an altruistic fan-boy (or fan-girl) database.

    Personally, I would not be interested in the hassle of meeting some rando from the internet to talk about my bike without some sort of compensation besides warm fuzzy feelings.
    Thatís how I read it anyways, he kept saying no compensation or obligations to the brand, just helping people out who are interested in a particular bike that they canít test ride at a local shop. Chances are someone you already know knows a guy who knows a guy who probably has that bike youíre interested in, without the hassle of the internet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    So sure. When the brand GIVES me a bike, I'll do all the promo they want.
    And you're not getting the point nor have you read much of anything I posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad In A Van View Post
    I get what the OP is saying, what I read wasnít so much a person being an ambassador for a brand and having to meet people and loan his/her bike out. What I pictured in my head as I read it was more of an app based program where you put in your location and bike details. Someone in the area can search for a bike theyíre interested in and if thereís a match then the two can arrange to meet up and do a quick ride together, switching bikes so the other person can ride a bike theyíre thinking about buying.
    Exactly. No obligation to do anything if you don't want to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deep Thought View Post
    If the brand isn't involved, then how does that make them a "brand ambassador?" Sounds more like an altruistic fan-boy (or fan-girl) database.
    The manufacturer (brand) isn't involved but, yeah, it's kinda like a fan-boy-of-their-brand meet up. Someone says, "I like the sound of this bike but I need to see one in person. Who's got one?" They search their area, find someone, they meet up so that this guy can see one in person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deep Thought View Post
    Personally, I would not be interested in the hassle of meeting some rando from the internet to talk about my bike without some sort of compensation besides warm fuzzy feelings.
    Nothing wrong with that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad In A Van View Post
    Thatís how I read it anyways, he kept saying no compensation or obligations to the brand, just helping people out who are interested in a particular bike that they canít test ride at a local shop. Chances are someone you already know knows a guy who knows a guy who probably has that bike youíre interested in, without the hassle of the internet.
    Exactly.

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    To update on how I see it working:

    I go to my home AZ Forum and ask, "Has anyone tried this bike?"

    Chances are pretty good that someone owns this particular bike. And chances are also pretty good that I know that person, know of that person, or know someone that knows that person. Between everyone involved the introductions are made and, if the owner feels comfortable, I now get to look at and maybe even ride the bike I'm curious about.

    No manufacturers are involved.
    No one gets a discount.
    No one gets a kick back.
    No one gets a bonus.
    No one gets any swag.

    Everyone simply walks away knowing they did a good thing by helping someone else narrow down their bike choice.


    Most of us are cool people.
    Most of us enjoy riding socially.
    Most of us think our brand of bike is pretty damn good.
    Most of us enjoy helping others and spreading the stoke of riding.

    Pretty simple concept that I think a lot of people would be willing to do.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    To update on how I see it working:

    I go to my home AZ Forum and ask, "Has anyone tried this bike?"

    Chances are pretty good that someone owns this particular bike. And chances are also pretty good that I know that person, know of that person, or know someone that knows that person. Between everyone involved the introductions are made and, if the owner feels comfortable, I now get to look at and maybe even ride the bike I'm curious about.

    No manufacturers are involved.
    No one gets a discount.
    No one gets a kick back.
    No one gets a bonus.
    No one gets any swag.

    Everyone simply walks away knowing they did a good thing by helping someone else narrow down their bike choice.


    Most of us are cool people.
    Most of us enjoy riding socially.
    Most of us think our brand of bike is pretty damn good.
    Most of us enjoy helping others and spreading the stoke of riding.

    Pretty simple concept that I think a lot of people would be willing to do.
    So why do we need anyone else (like you) getting involved in that process?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    So why do we need anyone else (like you) getting involved in that process?
    You don't. I simply think it would be beneficial to have all this data in one location. Not everyone is on MTBR, or PinkBike or whatever venue you typically visit. And even here on MTBR some of the forums have very little action in them. Posting there would prove relatively useless. Of course, if forum activity is any indication, then the states with weak forums would have equally weak ambassadorship.

    Just thinking out loud about how we can all help each other out when researching new bikes...

  50. #50
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    Wait. Isn't that just a normal bike purchase?

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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    You really aren't listening or didn't read everything I've typed so I'm not sure this is actually worth trying to explain again but here goes. It's really simple so don't overthink it:

    Guy in your town wants to buy a bike that's not available anywhere near or online only.
    You have this bike in his size.
    Guy contacts you says, "can I check out your bike."
    You say, "sure, I'll be riding from this trail head at this time."
    Guy meets you, looks at your bike, maybe sits on it for size. Maybe you let him ride it briefly. Maybe not. Doesn't matter.
    Guy leaves knowing if the bike in that size fits, if it looks good, maybe even knows if it rides good.
    You leave knowing you helped a fellow rider narrow his choice. It didn't cost you anything but a few minutes of your time.

    This would have nothing to do with SALES. No direct association with any manufacturer. It's about helping other riders out with their purchasing decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    You don't. I simply think it would be beneficial to have all this data in one location. Not everyone is on MTBR, or PinkBike or whatever venue you typically visit. And even here on MTBR some of the forums have very little action in them. Posting there would prove relatively useless. Of course, if forum activity is any indication, then the states with weak forums would have equally weak ambassadorship.

    Just thinking out loud about how we can all help each other out when researching new bikes...
    I think you're underestimating the effort involved to build and maintain such a database. Developers don't work for free, so how are you gonna pay for it?

    Then you've got to get the word out and get people to actually use it. How are you going to reach the people who aren't on Pinkbike, MTBR, and the like?

    Seems like a pretty good idea at first glance, but perhaps executing it is another story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    To update on how I see it working:

    I go to my home AZ Forum and ask, "Has anyone tried this bike?"

    Chances are pretty good that someone owns this particular bike. And chances are also pretty good that I know that person, know of that person, or know someone that knows that person. Between everyone involved the introductions are made and, if the owner feels comfortable, I now get to look at and maybe even ride the bike I'm curious about.

    No manufacturers are involved.
    No one gets a discount.
    No one gets a kick back.
    No one gets a bonus.
    No one gets any swag.

    Everyone simply walks away knowing they did a good thing by helping someone else narrow down their bike choice.


    Most of us are cool people.
    Most of us enjoy riding socially.
    Most of us think our brand of bike is pretty damn good.
    Most of us enjoy helping others and spreading the stoke of riding.

    Pretty simple concept that I think a lot of people would be willing to do.
    No. My advised me to never be a lender or borrower. That way there are no misunderstandings. Besides, my bike is set up for me. Besides not having stock geometry, I don't want anyone fiddling with my suspension settings. Dialing in the CCDB was a pain the first time around.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Wait. Isn't that just a normal bike purchase?
    Not if you don't have any buddies with the bike you are thinking of buying...

    Quote Originally Posted by Deep Thought View Post
    I think you're underestimating the effort involved to build and maintain such a database. Developers don't work for free, so how are you gonna pay for it? Then you've got to get the word out and get people to actually use it. How are you going to reach the people who aren't on Pinkbike, MTBR, and the like? Seems like a pretty good idea at first glance, but perhaps executing it is another story.
    I would develop it myself. No, it wouldn't be easy. None of it. I have no delusions that this will be easy. I'll probably never even move forward on it especially given the lukewarm, if not negative, feedback given so far. The voting is split evenly but most of the comments are "I ain't doin' sh|t for free", which, doesn't really surprise me given the "me, me, me, everything is always about me" attitude that society seems to be adopting. Not as many people are willing to just be nice and helpful.

    After going through the searching and buying process just recently it made me wonder why our community as a whole hasn't developed such a program. It wouldn't cost anyone a thing but maybe a few minutes of riding time and save a boatload of people just like me the misery of spending hundreds of dollars renting bike after bike that I knew I wouldn't like after 5 minutes of pedaling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Besides, my bike is set up for me. Besides not having stock geometry, I don't want anyone fiddling with my suspension settings. Dialing in the CCDB was a pain the first time around.
    Yeah... pretty sure I never even eluded to allowing this but that's OK. I know it's a lot of reading to do when you've already made up your mind.

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    This thread got weird.
    Quote Originally Posted by me;
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    Not if you don't have any buddies with the bike you are thinking of buying...


    I would develop it myself. No, it wouldn't be easy. None of it. I have no delusions that this will be easy. I'll probably never even move forward on it especially given the lukewarm, if not negative, feedback given so far. The voting is split evenly but most of the comments are "I ain't doin' sh|t for free", which, doesn't really surprise me given the "me, me, me, everything is always about me" attitude that society seems to be adopting. Not as many people are willing to just be nice and helpful.

    After going through the searching and buying process just recently it made me wonder why our community as a whole hasn't developed such a program. It wouldn't cost anyone a thing but maybe a few minutes of riding time and save a boatload of people just like me the misery of spending hundreds of dollars renting bike after bike that I knew I wouldn't like after 5 minutes of pedaling. If everything looks good on paper, I'll find out where I can demo one and take the time to properly set the sag and tire pressure


    Yeah... pretty sure I never even eluded to allowing this but that's OK. I know it's a lot of reading to do when you've already made up your mind.
    Why bother demoing a bike and getting a feel for the suspension if you don't dial in for your weight? I also don't need to waste someone's time to see if a bike fits. If it's 18" or a large it will fit. Next I look at the TT number then the Geo to see if those numbers are deal breakers. If everything looks good on paper, I'll locate a dealer and reserve a demo, even if it means driving some distance. Then I'll take the time to set sag and tire pressure.
    Ripping trails and tipping ales

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    I would develop it myself. No, it wouldn't be easy. None of it. I have no delusions that this will be easy. I'll probably never even move forward on it especially given the lukewarm, if not negative, feedback given so far. The voting is split evenly but most of the comments are "I ain't doin' sh|t for free", which, doesn't really surprise me given the "me, me, me, everything is always about me" attitude that society seems to be adopting. Not as many people are willing to just be nice and helpful.

    After going through the searching and buying process just recently it made me wonder why our community as a whole hasn't developed such a program. It wouldn't cost anyone a thing but maybe a few minutes of riding time and save a boatload of people just like me the misery of spending hundreds of dollars renting bike after bike that I knew I wouldn't like after 5 minutes of pedaling.
    It's less about me me me and more about a lack of trust with a several thousand dollar piece of equipment in the hands of a stranger with no recourse if it's stolen or damaged...well, that and the fact that it's nothing to do with being a "brand ambassador", which is a whole other thing. Might want a new name for this share-a-bike arrangement to eliminate future confusion.

    There are certain people I'd trust to ride my bike and then there's the internet full of people that I plain don't know. No trust, no ride. Figure a way around that and you've got something pretty darn cool.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    To update on how I see it working:

    I go to my home AZ Forum and ask, "Has anyone tried this bike?"

    Chances are pretty good that someone owns this particular bike. And chances are also pretty good that I know that person, know of that person, or know someone that knows that person. Between everyone involved the introductions are made and, if the owner feels comfortable, I now get to look at and maybe even ride the bike I'm curious about.

    No manufacturers are involved.
    No one gets a discount.
    No one gets a kick back.
    No one gets a bonus.
    No one gets any swag.

    Everyone simply walks away knowing they did a good thing by helping someone else narrow down their bike choice.


    Most of us are cool people.
    Most of us enjoy riding socially.
    Most of us think our brand of bike is pretty damn good.
    Most of us enjoy helping others and spreading the stoke of riding.

    Pretty simple concept that I think a lot of people would be willing to do.
    I think you're over estimating what people are willing to do with their free time.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post

    Seriously, what's your deal with fast riders, anyway? Your post history here makes it clear that you like to race and ride fast. Are you one of those people that can't dial it back and ride any other way? The majority of people don't ride that way. And the way I understand brand ambassadors, the whole point of their existence is to bring out yet more people that don't ride the way you do. Most brand ambassadors exist to show newbies that you don't have to ride fast or race to enjoy mountain biking. Maybe eventually some will, but that's not the goal.

    I consider myself competitive, yet not fast compared to many others. I am however, always trying to go faster. I hardly ever to "fun" rides.

    I personally have always taken the recommendations or thoughts of a fast or competitive person over Joe Blow fun rider who isn't as fast.
    Reason being, usually Joe Blow fun rider doesn't push his equipment or experiment with things in order to try to constantly get faster (as he's not competitive or trying to go faster all the time)

    Thats not saying a weekend warrior can't be fast, but someone who is trying to always go faster can usually have an edge or more intimate knowledge of something.

    I know thats not always true though, of course.

    When I tell someone why I do or do not like an item, I try to give details as to why. Again, usually faster people can tell you WHY they do or do not like something. To me, if I am supposed to try to talk to people about a bike, or piece of equipment, I would think it would be a good idea for me to know how well it works. If it works well for someone fast, it will work for a slower person. If it works for a slower person, it may not work for a faster person.

    Take tires for example. A slow person who just putzes around rail-trails but gets the tire out there, may be happy with 35-40 psi on a junk tire. "This tire is great! I never get flats, and it goes pretty good!"

    How helpful is that?

    Put that same tire on the bike of someone who rides thousands of miles, fast - and you find out really quick that it wears out ridiculously fast because of the rocks, is heavy (slow to accelerate) and the tread durometer is so hard that it doesn't grip anything. The sidewalls are flimsy too, and it cuts up easily.
    "Go soothingly in the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon"

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    So my search for a new bike lead me all over the place. I'm fortunate enough to do some traveling for work and visit Denver a couple times a year. Last trip there I took a day and rented a Guerrilla Gravity Megatrail and Smash and was impressed with both. Flash forward six months and I'm ready to buy... cash in the bank... eager to buy so I can stop LOOKING. The Hightower LT and Carbine both piqued my interest as well and I found a dealer all the way across town that rented both. I rented a Hightower LT and didn't love it. Looking at the geometry specs the Carbine would be similar so I skipped renting it.

    This brought me back in contact with Guerrilla Gravity. I was hoping to find somewhere local to rent a Smash on my home trails and I learned they have a program called their Brand Ambassador and Motivated Freeseller program. It is a group of GG riders that are willing to meet people, show them their GG rig, and even allow people to demo their bike. Enthusiastic riders eager to spread the stoke all in the name of growing the Guerrilla Gravity brand.

    This Brand Ambassador program is pure genius. Of course, speaking honestly, they have to have something like this because just about NO ONE sells GG bikes.

    This lead me to wonder why there isn't a network of Brand Ambassadors for ALL bikes? Well, most... Let's face it you can't throw a stick in most towns without hitting a Specialized, Trek, or Giant dealer. But there are so many great brands that you rarely see in an LBS: Evil, Y&T, Ibis, Turner, Canyon, Banshee, Canfield, Nukeproof. A lot of great bikes that many people won't buy because they can't see them in person, let alone give them a spin.

    It seems to me that this COULD be a valuable database to have available to MTBers provided there are enough people that would be willing to spread the stoke like GG's BAMFs are. Who would be interested in spreading the stoke for your brand like this?

    To update on how I see it working:

    I go to my home AZ Forum and ask, "Has anyone tried this bike?"

    Chances are pretty good that someone owns this particular bike. And chances are also pretty good that I know that person, know of that person, or know someone that knows that person. Between everyone involved the introductions are made and, if the owner feels comfortable, I now get to look at and maybe even ride the bike I'm curious about.

    No manufacturers are involved.
    No one gets a discount.
    No one gets a kick back.
    No one gets a bonus.
    No one gets any swag.

    Everyone simply walks away knowing they did a good thing by helping someone else narrow down their bike choice.


    Most of us are cool people.
    Most of us enjoy riding socially.
    Most of us think our brand of bike is pretty damn good.
    Most of us enjoy helping others and spreading the stoke of riding.

    Pretty simple concept that I think a lot of people would be willing to do.
    I read the thread but didn't know what to quote exactly, but...

    It's not a bad idea. I think if you built it up and got it going you couple even sell it to pink bike or mtbr for a profit.

    The implementation has obstacles, but any good idea does.

    Lots of people are poopooing you, but I think they're just being internet jerks and probably don't have something better to do.

    As a guy who likes a bike between small and medium, this would be useful. Not even shops have sizes for me a lot of the time.

    Also, even though I bought my bike used I could still let someone ride it.

    If you're thinking about it more, I say go for it OP. You would likely get serious traction with ktm, yp, devinci, and other mail order brands

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

  60. #60
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    Better yet, go to a bike event, demo or festival. So many bike makes and brands. Pro service tech will dial in your sus settings and put your pedals on it. Leave your license/ info and ride the 45 minute demo loop. Repeat as needed. Not that hard. No discount, swag, bro deal or $$? That's Un American. Or just go to a bike shop. Hmmm. And how can you be a brand ambassador with no company affiliation? OP seems to be over thinking it and not understanding all the negative push back.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    I consider myself competitive, yet not fast compared to many others. I am however, always trying to go faster. I hardly ever to "fun" rides.

    I personally have always taken the recommendations or thoughts of a fast or competitive person over Joe Blow fun rider who isn't as fast.
    Reason being, usually Joe Blow fun rider doesn't push his equipment or experiment with things in order to try to constantly get faster (as he's not competitive or trying to go faster all the time)

    Thats not saying a weekend warrior can't be fast, but someone who is trying to always go faster can usually have an edge or more intimate knowledge of something.

    I know thats not always true though, of course.

    When I tell someone why I do or do not like an item, I try to give details as to why. Again, usually faster people can tell you WHY they do or do not like something. To me, if I am supposed to try to talk to people about a bike, or piece of equipment, I would think it would be a good idea for me to know how well it works. If it works well for someone fast, it will work for a slower person. If it works for a slower person, it may not work for a faster person.

    Take tires for example. A slow person who just putzes around rail-trails but gets the tire out there, may be happy with 35-40 psi on a junk tire. "This tire is great! I never get flats, and it goes pretty good!"

    How helpful is that?

    Put that same tire on the bike of someone who rides thousands of miles, fast - and you find out really quick that it wears out ridiculously fast because of the rocks, is heavy (slow to accelerate) and the tread durometer is so hard that it doesn't grip anything. The sidewalls are flimsy too, and it cuts up easily.
    You completely missed the point. It's extremely rare that brand ambassadors are expected to say anything technical about their bikes. Social engagement is valued more than technical acumen, riding skill, or race results. The brands that bring in ambassadors simply want those ambassadors to get their products seem somewhere. These people are not necessarily writing reviews of their product. They might, but that's not what's asked of them. Brands want Instagram followers and event attendance. The majority of brand ambassadors I know own a bike-related business so they are going to get seen one way or another. They strike deals with ambassador programs so they're seen on particular bikes or in particular gear. These programs work for them because they help lower some of their costs of running a business.

    I know a couple ambassadors who aren't those sorts of people. They just like to ride, and they do a good job of putting together events that get other people out riding. The exposure is what the brands want. The brands get their names attached to the events, which get the publicity. They sometimes have some schwag for event attendees, too. People develop favorable impressions about those brands.

    THAT is what brand ambassadors generally do. The kind of information you're looking for is available from other places.

    Which is not actually what OP is talking about, anyway. OP, I guess, just wants to formalize what's always been an informal system of people asking to check out someone else's bike.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    Why bother demoing a bike and getting a feel for the suspension if you don't dial in for your weight?
    Because this isn't a demo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I also don't need to waste someone's time to see if a bike fits. If it's 18" or a large it will fit. Next I look at the TT number then the Geo to see if those numbers are deal breakers.
    Not everyone knows as much about size, fit, and geometry as you do. And those numbers don't always reveal how it rides. The Hightower LT I tested had pretty steep seat tube angle but the seat was actually behind the BB making for some awkward pedaling. I never would have known from the geometry numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    If everything looks good on paper, I'll locate a dealer and reserve a demo, even if it means driving some distance. Then I'll take the time to set sag and tire pressure.
    What if they bike you want is a Canyon or YT?

    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    It's less about me me me and more about a lack of trust with a several thousand dollar piece of equipment in the hands of a stranger with no recourse if it's stolen or damaged... There are certain people I'd trust to ride my bike and then there's the internet full of people that I plain don't know. No trust, no ride. Figure a way around that and you've got something pretty darn cool.
    Yeah, that's definitely a huge part of the problem and probably the biggest obstacle to conquer.

    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    well, that and the fact that it's nothing to do with being a "brand ambassador", which is a whole other thing. Might want a new name for this share-a-bike arrangement to eliminate future confusion.
    Yeah... a lot of people are getting hung up on the name and not reading anything I'm writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    I think you're over estimating what people are willing to do with their free time.
    Possibly. But I think you are overestimating the amount of time we are talking about. If a guy contacts me and wants to see my bike I say, "I'm riding from this location at this time. Be there if you wanna see it." I'm already gonna be there so there's very little of my time being consumed by the other person. If a person chooses to make it a pain in the ass that would be their choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    I read the thread but didn't know what to quote exactly, but... It's not a bad idea. I think if you built it up and got it going you couple even sell it to pink bike or mtbr for a profit.
    That would certainly be an acceptable outcome but the goal would be to hook up riders and buyers. If that can't be accomplished easily then it ain't going anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    Lots of people are poopooing you, but I think they're just being internet jerks and probably don't have something better to do.
    I think a few people just aren't reading what's being typed and/or not completely, or even remotely, understanding what the goal is. In any case you can't please everyone all the time...

    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    As a guy who likes a bike between small and medium, this would be useful. Not even shops have sizes for me a lot of the time.
    Yep...

    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    If you're thinking about it more, I say go for it OP. You would likely get serious traction with ktm, yp, devinci, and other mail order brands
    I don't know that I would approach any specific brand because I wouldn't want it to turn into something official with rules. It would just be a peer-to-peer group of people willing to let people check out their bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Better yet, go to a bike event, demo or festival. So many bike makes and brands. Pro service tech will dial in your sus settings and put your pedals on it. Leave your license/ info and ride the 45 minute demo loop. Repeat as needed. Not that hard. No discount, swag, bro deal or $$? That's Un American. Or just go to a bike shop. Hmmm.
    Bike events are sometimes an option but not always a viable option for many due to location. Bike shops don't always have every size of every model bike to demo. And then there's the online manufacturers...

    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    And how can you be a brand ambassador with no company affiliation?
    Try not to get stuck on the name and read what's being typed. I don't have any affiliation with Transition but that can't stop me from telling people that my Sentinel is a great bike. I've already offered to let one buddy ride it because he's looking for a new bike. I'd say that's being a Brand Ambassador...

    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    OP seems to be over thinking it and not understanding all the negative push back.
    Just thinking out loud. I don't really care about the negatives as those voices are raising real concerns. Most of 'em anyway...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    You completely missed the point. It's extremely rare that brand ambassadors are expected to say anything technical about their bikes. Social engagement is valued more than technical acumen, riding skill, or race results. ... I know a couple ambassadors who aren't those sorts of people. They just like to ride, and they do a good job of putting together events that get other people out riding.

    Which is not actually what OP is talking about, anyway. OP, I guess, just wants to formalize what's always been an informal system of people asking to check out someone else's bike.
    Formalize and centralize so that it's easier to hook people up with each other.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post


    I don't know that I would approach any specific brand because I wouldn't want it to turn into something official with rules. It would just be a peer-to-peer group of people willing to let people check out their bike.

    I don't mean sponsorship or anything. But, they would likely promote you, or at minimum be friendly to the project. They may even want to embed some of it into their own sites.

    That's now that I think about it. Really I just meant people who were fans of those brands would be really into it.

    There's really not a downside to any mfr participating or support you. And, they could help bring people to you, which is what you need. The idea only works if you have a large network.

    I think there's a lot of possibility though.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    You completely missed the point.

    I guess my response was more of in response to your inquiry for LeDuke as far as why he seems to put an emphasis on speed or racers. Not so much as an ambassador statement.

    As a KTM brand ambassador, they are not interested in someone pushing a bike to it's limits for racer feedback. They are interested in getting exposure. Fast, slow, road, mountain, racing, joy riding. Just get the bikes out, make some social media posts, and be a decent person!
    "Go soothingly in the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon"

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    I guess my response was more of in response to your inquiry for LeDuke as far as why he seems to put an emphasis on speed or racers. Not so much as an ambassador statement.

    As a KTM brand ambassador, they are not interested in someone pushing a bike to it's limits for racer feedback. They are interested in getting exposure. Fast, slow, road, mountain, racing, joy riding. Just get the bikes out, make some social media posts, and be a decent person!
    Same with GG. They donít make it a requirement to be a racer. I spend a lot of time at the bike parks, so itís easy for me to loan my bike for a quick run.
    Guerrilla Gravity BAMF, Colorado Front Range
    Writer, MTB4Her.

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    ain't nobody got time fo dat

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