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Big news: Feds to consider allowing bikes on PCT

47K views 203 replies 76 participants last post by  Empty_Beer 
#1 ·
For the last two to three years a small group of us has been working to get mountain bike access to non-Wilderness sections of the Pacific Crest Trail. (About 60% of the PCT lies outside Wilderness.)

We have convinced the Forest Service that its 1988 closure order requires reconsideration.

As a result, the Forest Service is going to begin a rulemaking procedure, probably in March of 2013, to consider making the non-Wilderness parts of the PCT multiuse. This will involve public notice and comment.

When something similar happened with the Continental Divide Trail about four years ago, the Forest Service received about 8000 comments. The PCT reconsideration can be expected to generate even more controversy.

If the Forest Service decides to keep bikes off the Pacific Crest Trail, we can expect that closure to stay in place for the rest of our lives and maybe those of our children. If the Forest Service decides to open it, it will be revolutionary.

Stay tuned. We'll be looking for your help in coming months.
 
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#20 ·
I'm in.. huge hiker myself but also always willing and glad to share the trails. If I am on my bike I slow down and say hi to hikers or equestrian folks. If I am hiking I move out of the way as much as I can. I don't get all the hate. The PCT should be open to all.. I was just on a portion of it last month and it is amazing. I bet you.. no I guarantee you more maintenance would be done by the MTBers.
 
#21 ·
Thanks to everyone who's expressed interest or is offering to help. It might be a while before we ask for anything. Following suggestions on various mtbr threads (I've posted this news on 5 Pacific or Nevada regional forums plus the Passion forum), I realize we should create a Facebook page. I'll be working on that and report back.

007, your enthusiasm is most welcome! The idea of a petition makes sense. It can't hurt, even though the Forest Service will be asking for everyone's input when the decision-making process gets going, hopefully in just five months. If you'd like to work with me on designing one, please send me a private message.

There are two other things that you can and others can do now if you have time and motivation:

The first is to contact the sports editor of your local newspaper and ask him/her to write a story about this. There's been some great sports coverage about mountain biking access in the past:

Sandsberry: Mountain bikers belong in the Wilderness : Sports Yakima

The second very helpful thing would be to contact one board member (assuming that's all you have time for) of the Pacific Crest Trail Association (Pacific Crest Trail Association - Home) and talk with him/her about the value of including mountain bikers in the PCT trail community. The PCTA is conservative; the staff are opposed to bicycles on the trail, and that is the group's official policy. But it's the PCTA board that sets the policy. Some of the board members might be willing to change the policy. Here's a link to the board members:

Pacific Crest Trail Association
 
#22 ·
PM Sent. I think the value in a petition is that it can provide an indication to legislators of the extent of interest surrounding this topic. Even though its you are correct that the actual decision making will involve input from multiple sources, this can be one loud voice if we get enough people on board. It would SUCK to see the opposition come to the table with a few thousand signatures if we weren't prepared.
 
#26 · (Edited)
"I know a section moto guys thrash often."

If you don't mind saying, which section is that, how often do motorcycles use it, and what damage (if any) do they do?

We're trying to gather all the information we can about the actual conditions on the PCT, as opposed to people's mental image of the trail, which may not jibe with reality. Everyone's personal knowledge is most helpful.

Thanks.
 
#31 ·
Honestly, I don't want to see mountain bikers when I'm out on the PCT. I've considered how great of a trail it would be to bike, but still, I like to backpack on backpacking trails. Keeping it continuous would be great. Sorry to rain on the parade of those interested, I know some people would love it. This is just a conflict of interest. Because of past conflicts with cyclists while hiking multi use trails, I usually don't hike multi use. It seems like another deterrent for the PCT to me.
 
#32 ·
It brings up the point that you need more points that better support your message, than something unreliable like that, when delivered in a concise manner. You can't give someone like that a 3 paragraph message and expect them to read it all, considering how busy they are. Most people wouldn't know what to say when they try to contact...

You got to have plenty of reliable support for your statement in order to convince someone, yet keep it concise. Best if you cite a reputable source (pref non-biased) and use their credentials to enhance your claims.

I've also hiked trails and find it disturbing how inconsiderate how a vast majority of mtn bikers were to hikers, especially those in groups. Hikers on the trails can feel like cyclists on a road. On a narrow road with plenty of traffic, a cyclist can feel unwelcome and prefer a road where there's no cars. The more bikers on a trail, a hiker can feel unwelcome and may prefer a trail with no bikers. I don't hike much since they seem too much of a minority and minorities in these kinds of cases tend to lose. I don't think opening trails in general to mtn bikers is a bad thing though. Still plenty of places to hike where bikers can't ride (up at least), which are true gems.
 
#35 · (Edited)
That's amazing. I don't know where you live, but I have to wonder if there's something in the air or the water there. I've ridden perhaps 30,000 miles on trails and dirt roads and have hiked and backpacked hundreds of miles, and I can barely remember any unpleasantnesses. Admittedly I hike much less than I used to, because I much prefer mountain biking; and when I backpacked in the 1970s and 1980s there were few if any trail cyclists around. But on recent hikes, the mountain bikers I've encountered have been just fine.

I do hear stories like this from adamantly antibicycle old-school hikers, and they sometimes allege they were injured by a mountain biker, but no one has ever been able to document a bad encounter with a police report, a hospital record, or the like. Our local park statistics show a number of allegations of rude or dangerous mountain biker behavior but, according to official records, zero documentation of actual injury. I think they're making the injury claims up. I see it as being like claims of voter fraud in states that lack a photo ID requirement to vote: allegations of fraud all over the place but virtually no proof that any has occurred (maybe it's happened once or twice).
 
#36 ·
Well that's a bummer. The bad apples in every user group sure do some PR damage... but I think they'll always be the exception, not the norm. I personally feel that the PCT goes through some very remote areas that even when it opens, will see very little bicycle traffic. Not a lot of people (from any user group) typically go much more than 5-10 miles beyond any trailhead. If I was hiking the PCT for several weeks, and was 20 miles from nowhere, and I bumped into a mt. biker or bikers, I think I'd be thrilled to see/talk with another person(s), and possibly get info about what's ahead of me.
 
#38 ·
You technically don't ever seen other hikers unless they're going the other way, and they're usually pretty cool and considerate. You can see the expressions on their face and body language and their gear and can get a basic story about them from that, making it cool to see them. I rarely catch up to other hikers nor have other hikers catching up to me, going in the same direction, unless in a group with young kids in it. On occasion, some pass along some gossip that there's some *******s or a large group on the trail that I should look out for and it's sad when they're identified as mtn bikers.

When I see equestrians, I'm usually polite, and marvel at how healthy, strong, and good looking their horses look, but then when I see the gouges in the trail and the horse poo... I definitely yield, since I don't know how to really act around horses and know they're a bit faster than me. Amazing to see them go down hills.

I know hikers have the right of way on a trail, but I rather step off the trail to let any faster folks pass, no matter what they're riding or not riding, and in some areas, that's kind of inconvenient. I guess since I'm trying to be considerate. Bikers are typically the fastest, and I consider it an interruption every time a biker goes by. The most annoying type of biker is the one that quietly "sneaks up" from behind. I put a bell on my hardtail, since I didn't want to be that kind of rider. :p

If I were a local to the PCT and hiked it, I simply would just switch to biking, since hiking would no longer be appealing due to the trail being used by a "bigger beast". If there are less hikers, would the wilderness areas of the trail get neglected? The portion close to me goes through Big Bear, which has all sorts of good riding nearby, but I can think of epic rides going north along the PCT.

People say they feel unsafe riding their bikes on the road, while many others insist that it's safe. On the road, you can ride to the right and drivers can give ya room without much inconvenience, but roadies still prefer lightly traveled roads that feel safe, due to having space to ride without dealing with traffic going in the same direction. It's sort of the same feeling with hikers, except that it's hard to go nonstop with bikers passing by in the same direction and not all bikers actually yield to hikers going in the opposing direction. I know there are times where my companion has screamed out in fear as bikers skid to a stop (but laugh afterwards, embarrassed by their reaction). Just easier to give plenty of room to let people pass, since people look out of control when they slow down.

What would you do as a biker if you saw a big animal on the trail, that wasn't hostile to humans? Hikers feel like the rabbits, deer, birds, etc. on the trail, and feel like it's best to prepare to flee. If hikers had the strength, size, and mass of a moose, it'd be a different story.

I've been known to be rude to cyclists that don't yield. I might say something like "thanks a lot" in a sarcastic manner when they slow down, see that I am hanging on the edge of side of the trail with exposure, and then skid through. It's even more worrisome when it's a newb and he's shaking all the way down, maybe dabbing and waddling. Then there's the Strava guys... That's why I made an earlier comment that I found it interesting that IMBA was encouraging the creation of sustainable bike park and flow type trails (for bikers only) to help keep aggressive riders from abusing multiuse trails.

Hikers do feel unwelcome on multi-use trails. Rather just stick to hiking up mountain peaks, where it's typically far too steep and rugged to ride unless you're a masochist or something. Figured I'd try trail running and bouldering again once it cools down or something.
 
#39 ·
I agree with a lot of you.. Both sides. I've come across angry MTBers who act like they are shooting a Mountain Dew commercial and I am in their way. I have also come across granola hikers who act like no one should be on "their trail." I always try to be sincere to anyone I see on the trail because I feel we are both out doing something a lot of folks don't even experience at all. Doesn't matter if I'm hiking or biking. I was hiking in the sierras in August and came across the rudest hiker/backpacker I have ever come into contact with. I can guarentee that he would have been just as rude, if not more of a jerk, to MTBers. A-holes are everywhere and I have to agree with someone's comment above, 99% of my trail interactions are positive.. It's the 1%ers (haha) that can ruin the experience. I am totally for opening the PCT to MTBing.
 
#43 ·
Thanks for your efforts imtnbke!

Hopefully the outcome in the end will be left to the individual land mangers which are many to decide if sections should be opened up or not. I do not think the PCTA has any authority what so ever to decide if the trail is closed or opened to bikes, although there opinion may weigh heavily with the feds.

Of course Wilderness areas will be off limit, but there are many sections of trail that just opening short section to bike use opens up amazing links for larger rides (These happen to be the most poached sections because of this).

Saying that the trail was not built to sustain bike traffic is ridiculous, if it was built to sustain horse traffic it fine for bikes. A buddy of mine who builds lots of trails was explaining how much longer it takes to build trails to support horse traffic, not only the trail bed, but clearing a large swath both horizontally & vertically allow a horse with panniers to pass.

Getting bikers involvement with the trail will only improve the trail as MUCH more maintenance will occur on sections being overgrown and with tree removal. Not to mention the monetary effect of people joining the PCTA.

Some how 1000 of miles of trails are shared between Hikers / Horses / Bikers, for the most part without indecent, and guess what the trails seem to hold up ok.

Ideally some sections will open up. Possibly with an odd/even day thing, or something seasonal, like Sept 1st till the first snowfall when the though hikers are done.

There's one example of a 1/4 miles section of PCT blocks the connection of 100's of miles of trails, do we really need to create another parallel trial in the forest, just because this 1/4 mile section that runs next to a major freeway cannot be shared? pretty unbelievable.
 
#53 · (Edited)
Crazy? Are you kidding? Take a walk in their shoes.
Hike all your life, reach the age of 40, discover all your favorite local hiking trails are now allowing mountain bikes, get run off the trail countless times and see what you'd have to say if you were them.
I'd have some 'crazy' **** to say about mountain bikers.

There isn't some 1% of us tarnishing our reputation. It's a much larger percent than that.

Mountain bikers make up for a lot of trail stewardship, but that's a lasting impression that doesn't ward off the first impression that many experience as they get dusted when they step off the side of the trail to yield.

To those of you too immature to acknowledge the impression that some mountain bikers give off, grow up. I'm not saying any of you are one of them, but seriously, we impress some and piss off other's. If you fail to acknowledge that we have confliction with and have hurt the feelings of other user groups, it looks really bad for the rest of us when you can't see through someone else's eyes for a minute. There isn't any right or wrong on this issue, it's a conflict of interest.
 
#52 ·
In some parts, the Forest Service relies on mountain bikers to maintain the Perfect Cycling Trail. When was the last time you saw hikers and equestrians lending a hand. Not around here. I'd even finally pay for the double tax called the "Adventure Pass" to sport my mistress in public.
 
#57 ·
From a PCT hiker's perspective

Hi all,

While I don't expect to convince you that the PCT hiker is right, I will give you my perspective as a PCT thru-hiker and hopefully convince you that our reasoning is not malicious or intended to keep the trail exclusive. I hiked the entire PCT in 2007, I have volunteered on trail maintenance crews, and my wife is on a local chapter of the PCTA.

I think our set of arguments against allowing bikers on the PCT come down to one common factor: the speed disparity between hikers and bikers. Speed disparity comes through in each of the following arguments:

-"Loss of the wilderness feel" Let's say for the sake of simplicity that mountain bikers on average travel twice the speed of hikers. On a hiker-only trail, two people traveling by foot can hike for an entire day in the same direction, separated by as little as a half-mile, and never see each other. The same separation is never maintained when the person behind is traveling by bike.

-"Safety/Annoyance" I frequently hike on multi-use trails near my home that are major mountain biking destinations, and find that it's a very common occurrence to have bikers come from behind on downhills at high speeds. I am in almost every occasion the one who is must move from the trail (sometimes to avoid being hit). It could be just my human nature to avoid fast moving objects. But in many cases, the biker does not even announce their approach. I don't think they're doing this out of neglect or for mean-spirited reasons; it's just the nature of the situation: the biker is moving fast, flying around a corner, and in many cases just does not have the time to give enough forewarning. Regardless of the reasoning, this can be annoying, particularly in the near-miss cases, and this effect is amplified on narrow trails like the PCT.

-"Trail Damage" I am no physicist, but I know that faster things move more dirt. Fast rivers move more sediment, hard winds blow more dust. Bikers move faster than hikers, and skid, break, and jump to avoid obstacles. These things damage trails. Whereas I can understand bikers thinking of the PCT as "any old trail", it's not. It actually ties an entire community together. There are numerous volunteers that work hard all summer to keep up with the current level of trail maintenance (fallen logs, drainage,..), and in many cases they can't keep up. And the people that tend to volunteer are the people who have thru-hiked, intend to thru-hike, or are connected to a thru-hiker. The volunteers TEND not to be the casual hikers who just happen upon the PCT for a weekend. And since bikers will likely never be able to "thru-bike" the PCT (Wilderness act), they are less likely to join that community and feel the community obligation to the trail. Thus by introducing a new group who inflicts more damage on average per user, we should expect that the PCT will be in much worse shape.

Thank you for reading, and see you on the trails,
Nick
 
#65 ·
Hi all,

While I don't expect to convince you that the PCT hiker is right, I will give you my perspective as a PCT thru-hiker and hopefully convince you that our reasoning is not malicious or intended to keep the trail exclusive. I hiked the entire PCT in 2007, I have volunteered on trail maintenance crews, and my wife is on a local chapter of the PCTA.
Small world Nick! My wife and I thru hiked the PCT in 07 too. What was your trail name?

I'm conflicted about this, honestly, since I do a lot of hiking and started mountain biking a couple years ago. I can see the points of both sides, and have been on both sides at some point. I think it is important for everybody to listen and for each side not to dismiss the other side's arguments without trying to understand them.

I agree with most of Nick's point and would like to expand on them from my experience. We encountered mountain bikers a couple times on the trip. Some were good, some were bad.

Many parts of the trail are quite exposed and could be extremely dangerous for hikers/bikers to encounter each other. We encountered one group as they came from behind and they had to follow us for almost a mile before it was safe to pass. They were fortunately the good ones.

We encountered another group later which were quite antagonistic after they were told bikes were not allowed on the PCT. Fortunately it was not as dangerous a location and they rode around us quickly after giving us a piece of their mind.

Everyone should remember that compared to bikes, hikers and horses move slow. Encounters between groups of hikers, and between hikers and horses were not a surprise (unlike the bikes). I spent a significant amount of time hiking "in the zone" when I would have reacted quite slowly to the arrival of a mountain bike. The ability to do that was part of the beauty of the PCT. Most of the people I hiked with and spoke with enjoy being away from it all.

Please also consider that most hikers will probably not be looking out for them. And that in an encounter between a hiker and a biker, the hiker will probably lose. Similar to how between a biker and a car, the biker will lose. I'm sure most bicyclists that have ridden on the road have experienced a jerk in a car who drives too close or cuts you off. To the driver in the car it's no big deal, but to you the cyclist, it's much more serious since it can result in your death. Similar thing with hikers and bikers.

I'm not sure every biker really understands that. I know some of the people I've ridden with, or encountered on the trails do not. They don't understand what it is like to have a bike come out of nowhere on a scary piece of trail. The experience level of the hikers on the trails vary greatly too. You have the hard-core Triple Crowners as well as the section hikers, weekend warriors and families with kids.

On the other side, I'm not sure I completely buy the trail damage argument. At least the physical part (the volunteering part makes sense). Portions of the trail in Oregon and Washington, as well as multiple campsites, were in horrible condition due to the combination of rain and horses, and horses are allowed on the PCT. There are irresponsible people everywhere.

I think the "loss of wilderness feel" is a big factor in this. If you have never been out on a long hike, you might not understand what the hikers are concerned about. I'm not sure I am able to explain that without this turning into a novel.

That all said, I'm not sure where I sit on the issue of bikes on the PCT, but if the policy is changed, it hope it is done intelligently with minimal impact to the current users. As Nick said, the PCT is not "any old trail." It is unique and I feel lucky that it was around for me to have experienced it.

IMO, the mountain bike community should step up and try to show what they can contribute to the PCT and how they can help make it better, rather than just argue that it is their "right" to bike there.

Btw, some of the mountain bikers should come experience the hiking side and the PCT community. It's amazing!

-Patrick
 
#58 ·
Hi, Nick -- Thank you for taking the time to post these arguments. I for one am trying to grasp and understand the antibicycle hikers' mindset and point of view. It helps that I've backpacked about 125 miles of the PCT. The best way to reach a satisfactory outcome is for people to try to be as open-minded as possible.
 
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