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  1. #101
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    whoot

    Quote Originally Posted by imtnbke View Post
    For the last two to three years a small group of us has been working to get mountain bike access to non-Wilderness sections of the Pacific Crest Trail. (About 60% of the PCT lies outside Wilderness.)

    We have convinced the Forest Service that its 1988 closure order requires reconsideration.

    As a result, the Forest Service is going to begin a rulemaking procedure, probably in March of 2013, to consider making the non-Wilderness parts of the PCT multiuse. This will involve public notice and comment.

    When something similar happened with the Continental Divide Trail about four years ago, the Forest Service received about 8000 comments. The PCT reconsideration can be expected to generate even more controversy.

    If the Forest Service decides to keep bikes off the Pacific Crest Trail, we can expect that closure to stay in place for the rest of our lives and maybe those of our children. If the Forest Service decides to open it, it will be revolutionary.

    Stay tuned. We'll be looking for your help in coming months.
    coolio

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    I was just thinking about my experiences with cycling The Arizona Trail. The AZ trail is around 700 miles long, I believe, and traverses Arizona from the Mexican border all the way up to the south rim of the Grand Canyon. Over the years, I've ridden most of it. It's very similar to the PCT in many ways.....it crosses all kinds of terrain, and for the most part it is singletrack. It's much shorter than the PCT, but aside from that, lots of similarities, and traffic on it, whether foot, hoof, or soft-rubber air-filled tire traffic, is very low in general. Just like the PCT in that respect.

    The major way it DOES differ from the PCT is that right from the get-go, the AZ trail has always been open to ALL non-motorized users. And I gotta say, that for all of Arizona's boneheaded politics (IMO) I have never encountered a hiker on this trail, or a horse person, who acted like they didn't approve of me being there. In fact, everybody I encountered seemed to be quite friendly to me. One day, the only person I saw for an entire stretch of the trail , from Lake Mary down past Mormon Lake, was a guy who kinda looked like Osama bin Laden! He turned out to be a Sikh, not a Muslim, but he also turned out to be a real friendly guy. He was hiking north, I was riding south. He gave me all kinds of useful info on the trail, and on different segments of the trail....he's hiked the whole route at least once.

    In all, my experience with other kinds of trail users on the AZ trail was completely, 100%, positive.
    Only here, in CA, do I encounter this highly divisive, possessive attitude towards a public trail on public land used by members of the .....Public.

    If anything, people I encountered on the AZ trail were concerned about MY safety, telling me about upcoming obstacles, the size of their mountain lions, etc.... Imagine that!

    So, I think that the attitudes of those opposing cycling on the PCT are to a large extent supported by ideological-fueled agendas, which is sad, because when I talk to these people, I find that I share a love for the land, and for nature, and also have a shared value for solitude and the benefit of communing with nature via a solo ride on the trail, that matches their love of hiking the same surface.

    It's a damn shame that the 'anti's' are so entrenched in their beliefs, their ideological line in the sand, that they feel entirely comfortable with what amounts to denying me the equal right to enjoy the trail, in my way. I sense that in so many ways, these hiker folk are otherwise entirely decent, reasonable people, and most of the horse-folk are, as well.

    So, I'm optimistic about this issue. Call me a hopeless romantic, but I think that, like Rodney King, (God bless that poor tortured soul) we CAN all get along. It's just gonna take some work, and a bit of 'Tough Love', on our part, both towards the haters and also towards our own kind who are bent on bullying other users.

    Sorry for the run-on, rantlike statement. I'll try not to let it happen again!

    Oh yeah, and I wanted to mention, that my bikes all have a really nice-sounding, 'mellifluous' two-tone brass bell. Coming up behind a hiker or equestrian, it never fails to deraw a smile, even from the 'haters'. Although in their case the smile is a fleeting one, quickly suppressed, and replaced with the requisite, dissaproving frown.

    Oh yeah....one other thing. Bells are USELESS in the face of an I-pod wearer. They couldn't hear a rattler if they were about to step on it this their ear buds firmly in place!
    most of those people opposing cycling do nothing but walk around the trailhead.

  3. #103
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    Nice article just published:
    Advocates hope for reversal of Pacific Crest Trail bike ban

    Bike advocates say the 1988 ban was done too abruptly, without public comment or opportunity to appeal. The Oregon-based group, Disciples of Dirt, who fully supports the mission of Sharing the PCT, wrote on their website that the ban was "just fear and misunderstanding, mixed with a lot of well funded ignorance."

    In 2010, a group of citizen activists decided to probe further into the 1988 decision. They wrote a letter to the USFS on November 12, 2010 asking them to "put in place a process to examine the continuing usefulness of the 1988 closure order."

    click here to read more

    Sharing the Pacific Crest TrailHome Sharing the Pacific Crest Trail
    Visit these 2 places to help advance trail access:
    http://www.sharingthepct.org/
    http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

  4. #104
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    Here's a legal way to hike and "ride" the PCT No pedals or drivetrain = not a bike!


  5. #105
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    I know your just joking around, but a foldable gravity bike just seems kinda silly in most cases.

    But I have looked into packing a bike on a light weight military Alice frame some what disassembled as a possible tool to create larger loops on the PCT. But as I researched it I discovered that you cannot even possess a bike (even disassembled and not rideable) in wilderness or the pct. So why bother, just ride it, if your gonna get a ticket either way.

    I have recently after ignoring this little project for a few years got the rig ready for my first adventure to combine some non rid-able peak bagging and unconnected trail's for some interesting adventure riding/off trail hiking that I hope to try out as soon as the snow melts next year.

    Here is a photo someone posted that got me interested in the ideal in the first place, this fellow did the whole Tahoe Rim, hiking the non-bike legal sections and even this could have gotten him a ticket



    And the thread I started a few years ago on this.
    Bike Backpack - Non Poach alternative
    Last edited by TahoeBC; 11-13-2012 at 07:22 AM.
    Go get that KOM "You Deserve" - http://www.digitalepo.com/index.php

  6. #106
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    Good luck

    I'm not from your country, so I don't really have anything to offer but my best wishes that you not only gain access to this and other trails that fall under the odd 'no motorized vehicles - that includes mountain bikes' rule, but that you also manage to achieve some kind of harmony with the other user groups that seem so threatened by your potential presence.

    The small amount of time I've spent being (albeit minimally) involved with trail advocacy, I've noticed it was beneficial to form the approach that we as MTB users were all about making the trails better and more sustainable for ALL users, whereas other user groups were all about making the trails better just for themselves. This distinction proved to make a difference in at least one 'battle' I knew of. But we're still a very young sport in Australia, and there's a long way to go.

    Best of luck. I hope I find myself back there one day riding some of your amazing trails.

  7. #107
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    Thanks, Nuclear Powered. A lot of this dispute can be attributed to the unique influence of the 17th century Puritan tradition in the United States, which continues to exert a powerful pull even on issues like this. That influence turns what should be a land management issue into a moral panic.

    See this link: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/op...l-puritan.html

  8. #108
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    One of the best ways to get bicycles included is to let hikers know you're coming towards them. You really don't hear a mountain bike approaching till it's very close and often startles whoever you are approaching, the very thing they don't like. They feel like they're being stalked.
    Say hello, use a bike bell. Whatever it takes to get the surprise out of the encounter. I ring my bell and inform walkers that I have dogs with me, off leash. The only surprise is they are informed.
    Also offer water when I see people not carrying any.
    agmtb

  9. #109
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    I don't have the patience to read this thread in it's entirety, but having submitted a "Mountain Biker Survey" a few days ago, and afterwards I found this whole other thread was bumped-up, I'm not sure if this point has already been included in the argument "for" MTB's to be allowed on PCT... I am an individual "off-road" cyclist. I am lumped in to a much larger group of "Mountain Bikers", and of course as any other group that is seen from the outside, we are subject to generalizations. i.e. the Mountain Dew Downhiller Extreme dudes that we are perceived as by "naturalist" hikers. This is as always an unfortunate reality. I am a 48 year old asthmatic, I started riding again 3-4 years ago. I enjoy the challenge of a back country singletrack, but, I'm slow as hell! I stop to rest often, I walk my bike often, I occasionally get passed by hikers, (and don't feel the need to catch up and "put them in their place!") I'm of course faster on the declines, but I still ride within my capabilities, and try to be considerate of other trail users AND the resident critters. To "CHUM" and the other advocates that are working to get the PCT access for us, please let me know if there is anything else that we as individuals can do to help.

  10. #110
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    Subscribed! As a Forest Service employee, I know first hand how difficult and slow change can be, hopefully this initiative doesn't fall on def ears. Keep up the good fight!

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by imtnbke View Post
    For the last two to three years a small group of us has been working to get mountain bike access to non-Wilderness sections of the Pacific Crest Trail. (About 60% of the PCT lies outside Wilderness.)

    We have convinced the Forest Service that its 1988 closure order requires reconsideration.

    As a result, the Forest Service is going to begin a rulemaking procedure, probably in March of 2013, to consider making the non-Wilderness parts of the PCT multiuse. This will involve public notice and comment.

    When something similar happened with the Continental Divide Trail about four years ago, the Forest Service received about 8000 comments. The PCT reconsideration can be expected to generate even more controversy.

    If the Forest Service decides to keep bikes off the Pacific Crest Trail, we can expect that closure to stay in place for the rest of our lives and maybe those of our children. If the Forest Service decides to open it, it will be revolutionary.

    Stay tuned. We'll be looking for your help in coming months.
    It's about time. I lived in Tahoe for a few years, and there was NOTHING else for me to ride there
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  12. #112
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    NEW POSSIBILITIES FOR THE PACIFIC CREST TRAIL

    From an IMBA blog

    If you live in the Pacific Northwest and love mountain biking, you have probably thought about how great it would be to ride your bike on the Pacific Crest Trail (PCT), which runs from California to British Columbia and is currently closed to bikes. Each time I hike a portion of the 2,600-mile National Scenic Trail, I find myself wishing that I could also access the stunning scenery, backcountry setting and phenomenal singetrack on my mountain bike. I also think about what a great resource mountain bikers could be in the efforts to maintain the PCT and other long-distance, remote trails.

    The U.S. Forest Service recently indicated that it might consider a process to review the current ban on bicycle access to the PCT. Some bicycle advocates have actively challenged the legal basis for the current bike ban, but IMBA has not joined these efforts. We are instead focusing on communicating with both the Forest Service and other key stakeholders in the recreation community to assess current trail-use issues and identify potential opportunities.

    IMBA believes that mountain bike access to long-distance backcountry trails is extremely valuable, though that does not necessitate opening the entire PCT to bikes (we will not pursue bike access in designated Wilderness areas, and some sections might not be conducive to riding). As the discussions evolve, IMBA will provide updates about which trail segments of the PCT are best-suited for bicycle access, and we will advocate for access to those sections.
    Click on the above link for more info.
    Visit these 2 places to help advance trail access:
    http://www.sharingthepct.org/
    http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

  13. #113
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    Doubt it will happen.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unkown View Post
    Doubt it will happen.
    Please elaborate

  15. #115
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    Cool-blue Rhythm Jolly jolly

    Quote Originally Posted by Unkown View Post
    Doubt it will happen.
    And a very merry Christmas to you too.

  16. #116
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    After accidentally "discovering" the PCT in my search for new MTB trails, in my "new" neighborhood in the High Desert of So. Cal. (all I will say is a very short portion of the trail is great for mountain biking) I was disapointed(sp?) that it is off-limits to us, disapointed that it is so well marked as off-limits to MTB's, and VERY disapointed that it is hardly ever used by ANYONE in this area (please post if you disagree, because only once have I actually seen any other hikers on the trail, and they were as glad to see me as I was to see them!) I actually have submitted a survey to "CHUM" and the "Share the PCT" group. AS I used Google Earth to investigate the different pieces of PCT in my area, I found it to be very diverse (a portion of the trail goes from the south end of Hesperia, Ca. to a "hot springs" and is frequented by "naturalists") the trail goes (in only a few miles) from desert, to "Chapparal"(where there are cactii and small trees and brushies that would require equestrians to wear chaps) to our typical So. Cal. mountain "sage and manzanita" environment zones. I have started to break up my riding schedule to include hikes so I can survey different areas of the trail for future bike rides.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimwg View Post
    After accidentally "discovering" the PCT in my search for new MTB trails, in my "new" neighborhood in the High Desert of So. Cal. (all I will say is a very short portion of the trail is great for mountain biking) I was disapointed(sp?) that it is off-limits to us, disapointed that it is so well marked as off-limits to MTB's, and VERY disapointed that it is hardly ever used by ANYONE in this area (please post if you disagree, because only once have I actually seen any other hikers on the trail, and they were as glad to see me as I was to see them!) I actually have submitted a survey to "CHUM" and the "Share the PCT" group. AS I used Google Earth to investigate the different pieces of PCT in my area, I found it to be very diverse (a portion of the trail goes from the south end of Hesperia, Ca. to a "hot springs" and is frequented by "naturalists") the trail goes (in only a few miles) from desert, to "Chapparal"(where there are cactii and small trees and brushies that would require equestrians to wear chaps) to our typical So. Cal. mountain "sage and manzanita" environment zones. I have started to break up my riding schedule to include hikes so I can survey different areas of the trail for future bike rides.
    Thanks jimwg

    Your knowledge, along with many others, has proven invaluable in outlining and defining sections of the PCT that are PERFECT for riding.

    We have amassed a considerable amount of data from all 3 states from short sections to tie in longer loops, to some pretty epic stretches...

    Keep the suggestions coming everyone - all really GREAT stuff!
    Last edited by CHUM; 12-27-2012 at 08:47 AM. Reason: spelling
    Visit these 2 places to help advance trail access:
    http://www.sharingthepct.org/
    http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

  18. #118
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    Good job!!!!!

  19. #119
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    Thanks! We'll let everyone know when we hear something from the Forest Service.

  20. #120
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    Think that restricting mountain bikers from certain trails is more due to a concern of speed and surprise rather than trail erosion. We as mountain bikers know that horses do much more trail damage than a mountain bike, yet claims are made that mountain bikers harm trails by erosion. In my opinion hiker's aversion to mountain biking is due mostly to the surprise of a rider sneaking up on them and scaring them around a corner or blind spot. I think we can help our cause by being polite to hikers by taking a few seconds to pull over for them and show them courtesy. Wearing a bear bell is also a big help. Just my 2 copper Lincolns.
    "The most persistent principles of the universe are accident and error." -Frank Herbert

  21. #121
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    I agree with that, except for the part about bear bells. I've heard that some hikers find other hikers' use of them annoying, so maybe they wouldn't appreciate them on handlebars or CamelBaks either. The main thing is that we should be scrupulously honest with ourselves about our impact, always assessing it to see how it affects others, and then, to the extent there is a real problem (as opposed to a perceived or invented problem) in a particular area, fix it.

  22. #122
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    On that topic about using bells to warn people on foot, see video clip below*.

    * not in English, but you shouldn't have a prob understanding it.


  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by tribune View Post
    Think that restricting mountain bikers from certain trails is more due to a concern of speed and surprise rather than trail erosion. We as mountain bikers know that horses do much more trail damage than a mountain bike, yet claims are made that mountain bikers harm trails by erosion. In my opinion hiker's aversion to mountain biking is due mostly to the surprise of a rider sneaking up on them and scaring them around a corner or blind spot. I think we can help our cause by being polite to hikers by taking a few seconds to pull over for them and show them courtesy. Wearing a bear bell is also a big help. Just my 2 copper Lincolns.
    Quote Originally Posted by imtnbke View Post
    I agree with that, except for the part about bear bells. I've heard that some hikers find other hikers' use of them annoying, so maybe they wouldn't appreciate them on handlebars or CamelBaks either. The main thing is that we should be scrupulously honest with ourselves about our impact, always assessing it to see how it affects others, and then, to the extent there is a real problem (as opposed to a perceived or invented problem) in a particular area, fix it.
    One alternative to the constantly ringing bear bell (which I also find incredibly annoying) is an activated bell. I ride with one on my bars and I ring it any time I'm approaching a blind turn.

    I also agree with imtnbke that we need to be honest with ourselves about what we do to the trails . . . both environmentally and socially. It's the best and only way we are going to increase our access broadly, beyond just the PCT.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  24. #124
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    So the rules of the trail....



    I'm coolio with the concept and adhere to them. Question: How do you "yield" to a hiker going the same direction? When you catch up to them and they let you pass, do you then immediately yield to them, then pass them again, then yield... and so on and so forth?



  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by imtnbke View Post
    I agree with that, except for the part about bear bells. I've heard that some hikers find other hikers' use of them annoying, so maybe they wouldn't appreciate them on handlebars or CamelBaks either.
    Hope hubs. Just spin back a few turns, you can hear them quite well. Some other good hubs work too.

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