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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    Great idea.
    Agreed . . . and to add to that, if someone were willing to generate MAPS of those potential trails, that would be AWESOME.

    Public Request: I need maps, pictures, etc. of people biking, doing trail maintenance, etc. for our website. Please provide pictures to which YOU own the rights to, or point me in the direction of whom I can request rights from. By posting your pictures here, you acknowledge the intended use as for publication via a website affiliated with the PCT Reassessment Initiative.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBrewing View Post
    This is a key argument point. All studies to date have indicated that horses have more, or at least the same, impact as mountain bikes.
    Horses have a far larger impact on the environment, they have to be carefully fed certified weed free hay so their **** cannot spread weeds. Their hair of course will hold onto seeds, their footprints alone cause far more trail damage and of course they are noisier than a MTN bike unless you have wet squeaking brakes

    Its a non issue however, to even sit and have to fight for such a wonderful silent sport such as mtn biking to be allowed onto the peoples land is simply amazing.
    I certainly hope this passes, and it should not take any real thought to let it.

  3. #78
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    Just another thought in case of so much opposition arises that failure appears eminent, the MTBers could offer a compromise of designating even days open to mountain bikes and odd days open to hikers/horses only. We have some trails in Salt Lake City set up like that. The benefit for us (besides gaining access to trails that might not have otherwise allowed bikes) is that on those even days when bikes are allowed, dogs MUST BE ON A LEASH. This also helps reduce trail conflicts. On hiker-only days, dogs can be off leash.
    Obviously full time access would be better, but sometimes baby steps are a good start.


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  4. #79
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    My Vasque Clarion's have a wider and more aggressive tread than my mtb tires. Each boot will hit the trail in two different spots. If I use a walking stick or poles, they will contact the trail in 1 or 2 additional spots. That means I am contacting the trail in 3 or 4 different spots within a few feet. On my bike the two contacts are in the same spot. On a multi day trip my pack usually weighs more than my bike, so size and weight of a bike itself is not really an issue in regards to the trail.

    IMO, the real issue is elitist attitudes. If all outdoor enthusiasts were courteous and watched out for each other, there would be no problem. However, too many people/groups have a hard-on about how great they are compared to everybody else. We are out there for the same experience, but we all just do it in different ways.

  5. #80
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    Where I ride, there are very few multi-use trails. Most parks have multi-use "two-track" for the vehicles which help with trail maintenance, and hikers, equestrians, and mountain bikers each have their own designated trails. I occasionally come across people hiking the MTB trails and I usually warn them to keep eyes and ears open for approaching bikes as riders won't be expecting to encounter them. Other than that, I actually encourage them to hike or run the bike trails as they are much more challenging than the hiking-only trails.

    There was a recent mass lay-off of USFS personnel, everywhere except the most popular parks for mountain biking. The bikers contribute 90%+ of the income to the park, they designed, created, and maintain the trail system. The rangers maintain the hiking and horse trails because neither of those user groups do any maintenance at all. Other areas of the state thinking about giving trail access to bikers talk to Alafia River State Park rangers about their experience working with the SWAMP club as it has become a model of success.

    SWAMP maintains 4 trail systems, by the way. They rotate trail maintenance on Saturdays and hold club rides on Sundays.
    '06 Cannondale Rush 1000 4" travel 27lbs
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  6. #81
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    Interesting, I hope you achieve your goal!

  7. #82
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    UPDATE: The Pacific Crest Trail Reassessment Initiative website is now LIVE! Please visit, explore and show your support by leaving a comment!

    Sharing the Pacific Crest Trail
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  8. #83
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    Hopefully some down only signs can be added to the trails. There are some great ridge lines.

  9. #84
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    I was just thinking about my experiences with cycling The Arizona Trail. The AZ trail is around 700 miles long, I believe, and traverses Arizona from the Mexican border all the way up to the south rim of the Grand Canyon. Over the years, I've ridden most of it. It's very similar to the PCT in many ways.....it crosses all kinds of terrain, and for the most part it is singletrack. It's much shorter than the PCT, but aside from that, lots of similarities, and traffic on it, whether foot, hoof, or soft-rubber air-filled tire traffic, is very low in general. Just like the PCT in that respect.

    The major way it DOES differ from the PCT is that right from the get-go, the AZ trail has always been open to ALL non-motorized users. And I gotta say, that for all of Arizona's boneheaded politics (IMO) I have never encountered a hiker on this trail, or a horse person, who acted like they didn't approve of me being there. In fact, everybody I encountered seemed to be quite friendly to me. One day, the only person I saw for an entire stretch of the trail , from Lake Mary down past Mormon Lake, was a guy who kinda looked like Osama bin Laden! He turned out to be a Sikh, not a Muslim, but he also turned out to be a real friendly guy. He was hiking north, I was riding south. He gave me all kinds of useful info on the trail, and on different segments of the trail....he's hiked the whole route at least once.

    In all, my experience with other kinds of trail users on the AZ trail was completely, 100%, positive.
    Only here, in CA, do I encounter this highly divisive, possessive attitude towards a public trail on public land used by members of the .....Public.

    If anything, people I encountered on the AZ trail were concerned about MY safety, telling me about upcoming obstacles, the size of their mountain lions, etc.... Imagine that!

    So, I think that the attitudes of those opposing cycling on the PCT are to a large extent supported by ideological-fueled agendas, which is sad, because when I talk to these people, I find that I share a love for the land, and for nature, and also have a shared value for solitude and the benefit of communing with nature via a solo ride on the trail, that matches their love of hiking the same surface.

    It's a damn shame that the 'anti's' are so entrenched in their beliefs, their ideological line in the sand, that they feel entirely comfortable with what amounts to denying me the equal right to enjoy the trail, in my way. I sense that in so many ways, these hiker folk are otherwise entirely decent, reasonable people, and most of the horse-folk are, as well.

    So, I'm optimistic about this issue. Call me a hopeless romantic, but I think that, like Rodney King, (God bless that poor tortured soul) we CAN all get along. It's just gonna take some work, and a bit of 'Tough Love', on our part, both towards the haters and also towards our own kind who are bent on bullying other users.

    Sorry for the run-on, rantlike statement. I'll try not to let it happen again!

    Oh yeah, and I wanted to mention, that my bikes all have a really nice-sounding, 'mellifluous' two-tone brass bell. Coming up behind a hiker or equestrian, it never fails to deraw a smile, even from the 'haters'. Although in their case the smile is a fleeting one, quickly suppressed, and replaced with the requisite, dissaproving frown.

    Oh yeah....one other thing. Bells are USELESS in the face of an I-pod wearer. They couldn't hear a rattler if they were about to step on it this their ear buds firmly in place!
    Last edited by Old Ray; 10-25-2012 at 12:15 AM.
    Re-Cycled Person who rides a mountain bicycle.

  10. #85
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    Why apologize? Input like this - especially of an experiential nature - is invaluable.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  11. #86
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    nice

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    Why apologize? Input like this - especially of an experiential nature - is invaluable.
    Thank you, secret agent man....do you think that post would be helpful if I put it up on the PCT comments page? My previous post there was a wee, tad bit in-their-face.
    Re-Cycled Person who rides a mountain bicycle.

  13. #88
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    Hi, Ray — That's an excellent comment about the Arizona trail. Yes, put it on the PCT comments page. And the moderator of the sharing the PCT Facebook page would like to make it the highlight there for today too, if that's OK with you.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by imtnbke View Post
    Hi, Ray — That's an excellent comment about the Arizona trail. Yes, put it on the PCT comments page. And the moderator of the sharing the PCT Facebook page would like to make it the highlight there for today too, if that's OK with you.
    That's totally OK with me. anything that will help.
    Re-Cycled Person who rides a mountain bicycle.

  15. #90
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    I'll be a bad influence and donate time and my own money in sustainment of the PCT in northern NM that would allow cyclists access on the trail.

    Area is perfect for cycling and very remote to access on foot. If one could bikepack in the area it would be perfect. My daughter is almost old enough where she could ride with us (without gear) to make it a perfect family trip

  16. #91
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    Crux, do you mean the CDNST? The PCT runs through Washington, Oregon, and California.

    If you do mean the CDNST, what's it like? Do you mean south of Cumbres Pass? I've ridden it north of Cumbres Pass. It's fantastic.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by imtnbke View Post
    Crux, do you mean the CDNST? The PCT runs through Washington, Oregon, and California.

    If you do mean the CDNST, what's it like? Do you mean south of Cumbres Pass? I've ridden it north of Cumbres Pass. It's fantastic.
    I'm thinking south of Cumbres Pass. East of Cuba NM there are quite a bit of trails there and I think your right I confused PCT for CDNST. Currently there is a section of trail that is prime for cycling yet the letter of the law on the trail is anything with a wheel is not allowed.

    Trail sign specifically call out wheelbarrows, trailers and wheelchairs as well from entering the area. Don't know how the last one is quite legal and wish I had a camera at the time taking a photo of the sign. Wonder how the wilderness act views individuals with a disability from entering the area. Not asking we pave the woods, but if someone is disabled and inclined of entering wilderness areas I don't feel as if they should be faced with a sign indicating they are not welcome.

  18. #93
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    Crux, that's a long story. The Forest Service's Wilderness rules are nonsensical, counterproductive, and arguably in violation of the congressionally enacted Wilderness Act of 1964, which was passed by a Congress that wanted people to get outdoor exercise and signed by President Johnson, who made statements during his presidency about his appreciation for bicycles. Check out this website. It explains a lot.

    Wilderness and bicycling issues, philosophy, and advocacy

    Wheelchairs, BTW, are allowed in Wilderness, but that's a more recent law and maybe the FS hasn't gotten around to changing the sign.

  19. #94
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    OK, to reiterate a post I did in the Washington forum.... and a follow up here....

    Google Earth shapefiles from Wilderness.net + PCT trail file from Forest Service

    And when you put them all together you get a 7MB KMZ here. It's too large to load into Google Maps (probably because it includes the entire PCT) but that gives y'all the tools to start really drilling into this sucker. Most of Washington state is obviously off-limits, but there are some interesting (albeit shortish) possibilities south of I90.
    "...Some local fiend had built it with his own three hands..."

  20. #95
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    Thanks, Slow . . . . you are right about the wilderness portions. We've held off on posting maps of "the possibilities" for now though for a few particular reasons. Send me a PM if you want to know more.

    Also note: People who are interested in the PCT and want to be kept abreast of information can post here about joining the PCT group on here. There's a private social group that is invite only (PM CHUM for permission) where we can discuss, argue, ***** and moan all we want without fear of scrutiny from the opposition.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  21. #96
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    Great observation, sirvalve. That's the kind of thing the Forest Service will benefit from hearing when the public comment and rulemaking process gears up. We still anticipate it happening next spring—not that many months away now.

    As always, we invite people to check out our website:

    Sharing the Pacific Crest TrailHome » Sharing the Pacific Crest Trail

    and our Facebook page:

    www.facebook.com/sharingthepct

  22. #97
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    Buy ticket 5 dollars

    Like entrance at Acadia national park , 5 dollars each hike or bike

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maurizio View Post
    Like entrance at Acadia national park , 5 dollars each hike or bike
    We've thought of this idea, however, its my understanding that such fees actually CREATE a headache for the Administration in charge because its now a program that they have to implement, facilitate, enforce and monitor . . . in a system that is already low on resources. Many times the fees collected are simply directed in an loop that perpetuates the program itself without any real benefit.

    Plus then there's the whole issue of "Double taxation" . . . . take a look at the recently abandoned Adventure Pass program.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  24. #99
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    What about proposing seasonal-use guidelines? I believe most thru-hikers start at the Mexico border in April, and make their way north as summer unfolds. At least for the So-Cal region south of Kennedy meadows, bikers allowed June through Feb./March, so they are not "interfering" during the heavy hiker traffic times. Of course, the downside of this would be riding in the hot desert in summer, which ain't so fun....

    sorry if this has already been mentioned, I was skimming to catch up on the post.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3blackbikes View Post
    What about proposing seasonal-use guidelines? I believe most thru-hikers start at the Mexico border in April, and make their way north as summer unfolds. At least for the So-Cal region south of Kennedy meadows, bikers allowed June through Feb./March, so they are not "interfering" during the heavy hiker traffic times. Of course, the downside of this would be riding in the hot desert in summer, which ain't so fun....

    sorry if this has already been mentioned, I was skimming to catch up on the post.
    No worries man. Any and all ideas are welcome.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

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