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Thread: Angry Hiker!

  1. #1
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    Angry Hiker!

    Check this out...this guy has a little angst and unfortunately some well worded arguements against Mounain Bikers.

    Well worded...but I think he's off base factually!

    This just proves the point that we ALL need to err on the supreme diplomacy when it comes to trail advocacy and ettiquette!

    Angry Hiker?
    "I may be old and fat, but at least I'm slow." - Me


  2. #2
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    It's by Mike Vandeman....I think quite a few here already know how skewed this guy's perspective is.
    The more out of shape you are, the steeper the hill looks.

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    Mikey V. Trolling Again...

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeCOLORADO
    Check this out...this guy has a little angst and unfortunately some well worded arguements against Mounain Bikers.

    Well worded...but I think he's off base factually!

    This just proves the point that we ALL need to err on the supreme diplomacy when it comes to trail advocacy and ettiquette!

    Angry Hiker?
    Do a google search on Mike V. He's a peach. The "information" presented in the post you listed is simply rehashing stances Mike has taken over the past 10 years. Nothing new, nothing interesting. Same old stuff.

    Organization with whom he was associated have kept him at arms length simply because he isn't exactly stable.

    Ken

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    ..and I thought I was a savvy Advocate...I've never heard of him before.
    "I may be old and fat, but at least I'm slow." - Me


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    Don't even mention that name!!

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeCOLORADO
    Check this out...this guy has a little angst and unfortunately some well worded arguements against Mounain Bikers.

    Well worded...but I think he's off base factually!

    This just proves the point that we ALL need to err on the supreme diplomacy when it comes to trail advocacy and ettiquette!

    Angry Hiker?

    I cringe every time I see anything from that Eco-Terrorist. If it has his name on it.....skip it. You'll be much happier.
    Last edited by WarrGuru; 03-26-2004 at 01:40 PM. Reason: typo

  6. #6
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    Wtf!!!!!

    Hey CC, thanks for posting this she-itt, but I think you got it wrong when you say this guy has some good stuff against mountain bikers. Nearly all his arguements could be used against hikers as well! Maybe we should never move at all, for fear of stepping on some small insect. This crap is from one messed up individual, but all it takes is one freak in a position of power to really screw it up for us! We transport invasive species and fungi? Can't shoes do the same thing, hooves too for that matter? Trail maintenance is uneccessary without bikes, what? Without any travel, trails will revert back to an undisturbed state. How about clearing fallen logs? Is that considered trail maintenace. When is the last time you knocked down a tree with your mountain bike, rendering the trail impassable? Why do mountain bikers get picked on so much? There are so many other horrible, dire issues to spend energy on fighting than people enjoying nature on a bike! I could go on and on, but I have better things to do, like kill countless animals and transport some fungi. -t

  7. #7
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    Another bike love site....

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeCOLORADO
    ..and I thought I was a savvy Advocate...I've never heard of him before.
    This is a great site too:

    http://www.wheeled-locusts.org/


    More reading for you. Check out this interesting and humorous bit of "science":

    http://www.safetrails.net/bkr_psych.asp

    Enjoy.

    Ken

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by toad
    Hey CC, thanks for posting this she-itt, but I think you got it wrong when you say this guy has some good stuff against mountain bikers. -t
    No, no...I said it's WELL WORDED, but off base in fact! I'm sure plenty of other Redsock hikers listen to his tripe like it's the gospel.
    "I may be old and fat, but at least I'm slow." - Me


  9. #9
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    He's not really worth that much energy...

    Quote Originally Posted by toad
    Hey CC, thanks for posting this she-itt, but I think you got it wrong when you say this guy has some good stuff against mountain bikers. Nearly all his arguements could be used against hikers as well! Maybe we should never move at all, for fear of stepping on some small insect. This crap is from one messed up individual, but all it takes is one freak in a position of power to really screw it up for us! We transport invasive species and fungi? Can't shoes do the same thing, hooves too for that matter? Trail maintenance is uneccessary without bikes, what? Without any travel, trails will revert back to an undisturbed state. How about clearing fallen logs? Is that considered trail maintenace. When is the last time you knocked down a tree with your mountain bike, rendering the trail impassable? Why do mountain bikers get picked on so much? There are so many other horrible, dire issues to spend energy on fighting than people enjoying nature on a bike! I could go on and on, but I have better things to do, like kill countless animals and transport some fungi. -t
    Why argue with the irrational? You will never change their minds. Mikey's really not really worth getting worked up over.

    Ken

  10. #10
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    lol

    That read was a good wast of web resources...

    Glad the club I ride is basically only MTB. Never seen a hiker, horse, etc. Not that I would mind, but we don't have those types of problems.
    Cheers!

  11. #11
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    Sigh....

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeCOLORADO
    No, no...I said it's WELL WORDED, but off base in fact! I'm sure plenty of other Redsock hikers listen to his tripe like it's the gospel.
    I don't agree with labeling hikers or any other trail user group. All this does is cause hurt feelings and creates conflicts that make it difficult for mountain bike advocates.

    All trail users have a right to the trails. It doesn't matter if they're equestrians, hiking or biking. Making fun of another user group won't help foster good feelings toward mountain bikers.

    Ken

  12. #12
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    respect

    I agree, we all do have the right to trail access. I think people who post such remarks against groups just enjoy creating conflict with others. Unless you or your group can get land that if private for one purpose, everyone is just going to have to get along and "respect" other trail users.

    respect for all is the key to a win, win for everyone!
    Cheers!

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    While this guy is an extremist, and off base from reality, many of these guys have footholds in the organizations that decide on BLM and state owned land use. Let's not forget to join in the cause of getting MTB included in the land management lpan in your area.

    www.imba.com
    www.bikesbelong.com

    or your local group or club. Don't let Mike (or other mis-informed folks) be the only voice heard when land management issues come up.

    {Stepping off my soapbox}

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    dup post

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    Quote Originally Posted by ibmkidIII
    It's by Mike Vandeman....I think quite a few here already know how skewed this guy's perspective is.
    Mike Vandeman????

    Oh for Cryin' out loud he's been an Anti-MTB Zealot since, well forever!I remember waaaay back, ('95 and probably even earlier) before mtb forums, when the online mtb community used to post to a mail-list type bulletin board, he'd send in the most absurd self indulgent LENGTHY tripe and then argue endlessly with anyone foolish enough to rise to the bait. I would have thought someone might had bumped him off by now...He certainly received his share of threats. He's pretty much dedicated his life to keeping the general public, and especially MTB'ers out of the woods. For him and his ilk, most of mankind is an affront to nature, incapabile of appreciating it and should never get any closer to the wild than the pictures they bring home to print in their natural society magazines. Basically if you're not one of them...stay the feck out!

    Being intellegint and well spoken does not automatically mean you're right. Just ask an attorney.

    What a incredible PITA!
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  16. #16
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    Maybe I am already pissed...

    but that guy is ignorant, dumb, and just plain f-ed up its disturbing. My sense of humor at the moment won't extend to anyone who has inherent opinions which are inherently false. What a mofo. Mountain bikers are lazy??? Tell that to the downhillers who don't even pedal uphill for the most part. How many hours do they spend perfecting lines, how many days do freeriders spend constructing implements to huck off, and of course, how many god damn mother loving hours to racers haul themselves around, probably sore and tired. Lazy???? My HR sitting right here is probably 180, oh man am I pissed. He probably agrees with the arson activity against Vail a few years back. What a messed up dude.

  17. #17
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    Deep breath bro. Deep Breath. This guy ain't worth having a heart attack over.

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    Where can I get me some Monoamine Oxidase?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken in KC
    More reading for you. Check out this interesting and humorous bit of "science":

    http://www.safetrails.net/bkr_psych.asp

    Enjoy.

    Ken
    I'm sure it's cheaper than what I spend on bikes.
    Don't you ever, don't you ever, stop being dandy showing me you're handsome.

  19. #19
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    Wow... what a moron.

    "(But if mountain biking is the high point of your week, as it seems
    to be for many mountain bikers, you must be leading a pretty dull life, off of
    the bike!)"

    I imagine his life is a non-stop party.

    Though I know this guy doesn't adhere to logic, I can't resist deflating some of this argument.

    A) I mountain bike for thrills and for cardio (amongst many other reasons). I backpack when I want to do long distance traveling. My loaded expedition pack weighs more than twice what my bike does and that doesn't count the added weight of my heavy boots, ice axe or trekking poles. I think people who refuse to get their heart rates up are lazy : )

    B) Trails are already impacted areas. Not to say we shouldn't do everything in our power to keep them in top shape, but we certainly don't need plants growing on them or animals on them. That habituates the animals to human exposure and as for plants... The whole point of having trails is to minimize impact in other areas. Tough luck for plants that try to grow on the trail - trails save the lives of thousands of other plants.

    C) I can think of many other things that rip up a trail worse than a mountain bike. Why isn't this guy *****ing about horsepackers whose horses dump in the middle of the trail, or ATVers who tear the living **** out of everything?

  20. #20
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    LOL! thanks for posting that. I love reading his stuff!!! It's like standing in the grocery line and reading the tabs while you wait. Sick but fun.

    ciao,

  21. #21
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    Ok deep breath...Im...all..right...

    Yeah I am okay, just a little pedal issue, and after reading that, things got messy. Mountain bikes really challenge the belief "never take crap from inanimate objects." I read it again after venting a little on my punching bag, and actually laughed really hard. I think if my hill intervals I just did could laugh, they would too. Lazy? HahahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahaHahahahahahaha hahahhahahahahhahahahaHahahahahahahahahahhahahahah hahahahaHahahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahaHahaha hahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahaHahahahahahahahahahh ahahahahhahahahaHahahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahaha ha!!!!!!!

  22. #22
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    I've never head of this guy either... if he's such an enviromental freak, why the hell would he pick on mountain bikers? I can't think of anything worse for him to waste time and spew BS about. Why not put some of that energy toward cars, pollution, corporations, blah blah blah...

    What's the biggest harm a mountain bike does? Trample a few plants? I think this guy has a personal vendetta against bikers, perhaps because of some experience he had before in his life and now he's bitter.

  23. #23
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    MV pretty much killed one of the mtb newsgroups... can't remeber if it was rec.bicycles.off-road or alt.mountainbike, but the newsgroup decided to go moderated because of him. I left shortly after since the traffic pretty much dried up after that.

    MV was post new rants almost every day and people would fall for it resulting in length flamwars.

    george
    Trogs: Too Tough for Carbon Fiber

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    How dumb!

    Some people sure have an odd perspective on things. It seems they are trying to say that bikes should only belong on roads...hmmm, Now roads arent hurting the environment are they? Oh well, They say if you argue with an idiot its hard to tell who is who. I guess I need to go out and "exercise the demons of my puberty".

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    Quote Originally Posted by rokklym
    Some people sure have an odd perspective on things. It seems they are trying to say that bikes should only belong on roads...hmmm, Now roads arent hurting the environment are they? Oh well, They say if you argue with an idiot its hard to tell who is who. I guess I need to go out and "exercise the demons of my puberty".
    The more i read the article, the more it got my blood boiling...Frankly, for a PhD he doesn't make very many valid arguments if at all? If anything, he made me want to go out, poach a trail, and run over a damn banana slug tomarrow.

  26. #26
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    Ahhh... Mikey... It's been a while...

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeCOLORADO
    Check this out...this guy has a little angst and unfortunately some well worded arguements against Mounain Bikers.

    Well worded...but I think he's off base factually!

    This just proves the point that we ALL need to err on the supreme diplomacy when it comes to trail advocacy and ettiquette!

    Angry Hiker?
    I first encountered, and attempted to debate, Mike V in college. I attempted to reason and discuss like an adult. He selectively edited my, and many others, responses. I remember that real biologists and scientists were in on some of the early debates and they were all cast down as idiot mountain bike drones. Even though some stated when they started that they never had ridden.

    Ahh those were the days - yeah right!

    I was pissed off, I was determined to do something. I joined my local mountain bike club. I have had a hand in personally opening up over a dozen miles of trail! Since then I've moved and become even more involved. I'm now living in Indiana, the VP of the local mountain bike advocacy group, and helping to try and organize the state. We've just gotten the go ahead to open (selected) state parks to mountain biking.

    So thanks to Mikey I decided I needed to get involved. As funny as it sounds but he was a part of my motivation for starting to do the advocacy side of stuff instead of just riding.

    BTW - It's worth noting Mike V's credentials are not in any related field. I believe that his PHD is in Mathematics. Fine I'm sure, but it does not make him an authority of wildlife, biology, or mountain biking.

    JmZ

    A bunch of Mike V links follow - a snapshot as it were.

    Look at the very bottom. In Mike's own words his vitals. Back in '92. I think before he discovered mountain bikes.

    Mike Related Link One - Mike V and Suess

    Mike's Home . To really understand him... visit... but resist the urge to mail him.

    A few antics

    And one more
    JmZ

    From one flat land to another.

    Advocate as if your ride depends on it...

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JmZ
    I first encountered, and attempted to debate, Mike V in college. I attempted to reason and discuss like an adult. He selectively edited my, and many others, responses. I remember that real biologists and scientists were in on some of the early debates and they were all cast down as idiot mountain bike drones. Even though some stated when they started that they never had ridden.

    Ahh those were the days - yeah right!

    I was pissed off, I was determined to do something. I joined my local mountain bike club. I have had a hand in personally opening up over a dozen miles of trail! Since then I've moved and become even more involved. I'm now living in Indiana, the VP of the local mountain bike advocacy group, and helping to try and organize the state. We've just gotten the go ahead to open (selected) state parks to mountain biking.

    So thanks to Mikey I decided I needed to get involved. As funny as it sounds but he was a part of my motivation for starting to do the advocacy side of stuff instead of just riding.

    BTW - It's worth noting Mike V's credentials are not in any related field. I believe that his PHD is in Mathematics. Fine I'm sure, but it does not make him an authority of wildlife, biology, or mountain biking.

    JmZ

    A bunch of Mike V links follow - a snapshot as it were.

    Look at the very bottom. In Mike's own words his vitals. Back in '92. I think before he discovered mountain bikes.

    Mike Related Link One - Mike V and Suess

    Mike's Home . To really understand him... visit... but resist the urge to mail him.

    A few antics

    And one more
    Thanks for the research... The more I read his manifesto's, the more he reminds me of the Unabomber of Mountain Bikers... This dude needs to get away from the library and do the very thing he says us cyclists aren't doing enough of, LIVE A LITTLE!!!

  28. #28
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    whoa!

    Well thanks for posting this, made me laugh ona saturday morning. But at the same time, its a bit scary that there are people out here with those views. But extremists are bad, no matter what camp they are in, ecologists, mtbriders, jews, christians, muslims, shoppers....

  29. #29
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    Bite your tongue!

    His PhD is in Psychology. No mathematician is that much of an idiot.

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    PhD = Pin headed Dork

    I particularly liked this quote on his take regarding mountain bike races http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/ebrpd16.htm

    "The last race was held last September 23. I visited the park four days later, to document the damage that was done to the park. The race course was twenty miles long, so I knew I couldn't possibly hike it in a day. Consequently I borrowed a friend's mountain bike. It was lucky that I did, because I discovered that, contrary to what the mountain bikers claim, riding a bike off of paved roads is no fun at all! I rode only on fire roads, but even there, I was continually subject to violent jarring, due to the hoof- and tire-pocked "washboard" surface of the road. (I know that there are bikes with a so-called "suspension", but there is no way to make a ride like that "smooth" or enjoyable.)"

    I'm embarassed to also be a Mike V.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssmike
    I particularly liked this quote on his take regarding mountain bike races http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/ebrpd16.htm

    "The last race was held last September 23. I visited the park four days later, to document the damage that was done to the park. The race course was twenty miles long, so I knew I couldn't possibly hike it in a day. Consequently I borrowed a friend's mountain bike. It was lucky that I did, because I discovered that, contrary to what the mountain bikers claim, riding a bike off of paved roads is no fun at all! I rode only on fire roads, but even there, I was continually subject to violent jarring, due to the hoof- and tire-pocked "washboard" surface of the road. (I know that there are bikes with a so-called "suspension", but there is no way to make a ride like that "smooth" or enjoyable.)"

    I'm embarassed to also be a Mike V.
    OMG, LOL!! Nice gem..thanks for sharing that one.

  32. #32
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    I bet you guys didn't know MV posts here every so often, although I haven't seen him around in awhile.

    He goes by Delwood Kelp.

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    Lol

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeCOLORADO
    Check this out...this guy has a little angst and unfortunately some well worded arguements against Mounain Bikers.

    Well worded...but I think he's off base factually!

    This just proves the point that we ALL need to err on the supreme diplomacy when it comes to trail advocacy and ettiquette!

    Angry Hiker?
    It is so funny to hear the eco freaks say you shouln't ride thru the puddle on the trail killing the plant and animal life underneath it and then hear the other side of the eco freaks say you shoudn't dare ride outside of the puddle widening the path and destroying our world. Usually written and said by a hiker that didnt like a bike passing them while they were enjoying themselves hiking. How dare us mountainbikers interupt that beautifull moment they were having enjoying nature as i just zipp on by. How dare i? How dare i? Why he almost ran me over. I had to jump out of the way for my life i tell ya. The trail is only like two feet wide you know. ooh it was horrible. It's like the only correct thing to do with this type of freak is too stop my bike , Get off and walk it past the hiker and have a conversation too.That is about the only thing that would satisfy that crybaby. I agree with your point totally about we need to be the kings of trail ettiquette for our own sakes. It is kind of weird that i read this today because today i was ashamed of not using more ettiquette. I was in a racing type trance and all i could muster up was a thankyou as i passed fellow bikers. I usually say much more.....peace

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drewpy
    I bet you guys didn't know MV posts here every so often, although I haven't seen him around in awhile.

    He goes by Delwood Kelp.
    Just so long as you don't confuse this Mike V for that Mike V.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by george_da_trog
    MV pretty much killed one of the mtb newsgroups... can't remeber if it was rec.bicycles.off-road or alt.mountainbike, but the newsgroup decided to go moderated because of him. I left shortly after since the traffic pretty much dried up after that.

    MV was post new rants almost every day and people would fall for it resulting in length flamwars.

    george
    DAMMIT That was the one!

    That was such a great newsgroup. I made a bunch of friends that I kept in touch with over the years. Nothing lasts forever but it totally sucks when something gets cocked due to an insessent jerk. But hey we let it happen. Ignore him.

    If you want to help the land use cause, maybe do some advocacy or trail maintenence once in a while, try to slow down to a stroller's pace when approaching a hiker and greet them cheerfully...(no one likes to get blown by)...those with animals are often very enthusiastic about their pets, be respectful of this and maybe offer a sincere complement about the animal. They'll appreciate this as much as we do complements about our bikes. If you spook a pet, you're almost guaranteed to create an anti-mtber. Hikers might be different over here but most are very friendly when I pause to say hello, and I bet that goes a long way to minimize the ***** sessions at the land use meetings.

    The thing is if we let most of the multi users know we appreciate the wilderness as much as they do, and that it isn't just a thoroughfare for us, maybe some will see us as partners and not opponents.

    But the MVs in the world will never be convinced, so don't waste your time on them.

    Cheers, gears, and beers!
    Faster is better, even when it's not.

  36. #36
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    How do you say....

    Idiot! In a diplomatic Way?
    What is a "healing vibe"???
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  37. #37
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    oh god. I remember that dude from alt.mountain-bike usenet forum. what a loser. Talk about wasting your time fighting the wrong fight.

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    what a knob

  39. #39
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    Too one-sided for me

    If we expect to win arguments over trail use then our faults should be admitted and corrected, if possible. Some anti-bike arguments are factual such as the complaint of ever-widening trails because some riders go around obstacles. For an example look at today's post Poor Farms ride w/ pics. There is photographic proof of trail widening in process. I hope the newbies learn to accept the challenge of riding over the roots, not around them. It's up to the guide to say "ride it or walk it".

  40. #40
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    Well spoken.....

    Arguably(i'd say not), but definitely not intelligent arguments. Just about every argument he makes can be applied to any outdoor user group. I find elitist's that obviously are not interested in other's opinions extremely unpersuasive. That's cool though, he must not have much else to do than to flame bikers... Don't get mad at him, just feel sorry for him. If he was so in touch with nature, he wouldn't spend so much time on his computer dissing bikers. (i know, pot calling the kettle black, but at least i'll admit it).

  41. #41
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    I was lucky enough to attend the Midwest Summit several days ago and hear the presentation from (I believe) Cort Anderson. With graduate degrees in geology and earth sciences, he's fairly qualified to talk about trail impact. I'm not expecting actual facts and research to affect folks like MV, but anyone that's interested in trail impact by hikers, MTBs, horses, etc, should check out some of the research articles at http://www.mtbaccess.com

    Just click on Resources > Research to find some great stuff, such as how much more impact there is to a trail from the initial impact of a hiker's heel striking the ground and causing displacement and shearing of the soil with 1200 lbs per sq. inch vs. MTB tires that only place about +30% over the weight of the bike and rider.
    A man is only a man, but a good bicycle is a ride.

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    Corrections....

    Quote Originally Posted by bhutata
    I was lucky enough to attend the Midwest Summit several days ago and hear the presentation from (I believe) Cort Anderson. With graduate degrees in geology and earth sciences, he's fairly qualified to talk about trail impact. I'm not expecting actual facts and research to affect folks like MV, but anyone that's interested in trail impact by hikers, MTBs, horses, etc, should check out some of the research articles at http://www.mtbaccess.com

    Just click on Resources > Research to find some great stuff, such as how much more impact there is to a trail from the initial impact of a hiker's heel striking the ground and causing displacement and shearing of the soil with 1200 lbs per sq. inch vs. MTB tires that only place about +30% over the weight of the bike and rider.
    \

    Don Weir was the speaker. Cort presented on web site development.


    Also, addressing pacman's comments:

    You're making some extremely broad based assumptions on the thread you cited as an example:

    1. That is is only a mountain biking trail.
    2. The the original trail or line was closer to the trees vs. where the riders are located.
    3. That the trails are designed properly. They look fall line to me, which clearly indicates that the trail design and not the trail users are the reasons why it's wider.

    Added later as an edit: I'm not suggesting that mountain bikers weren't responsible for widening the trail. We simply don't have enough information on which to conclude anythign from few pictures.

    One of my concerns regarding mountain bikers and advocacy actually mirrors pacman's comment: Mountain bikers appearing sanctimonious toward other trail users based on our own perceptions of our value.

    Not that giving back to the trails isn't great, but presenting ourselves as responsible trail users while suggesting that other trail users aren't as responsible is beginning to wear on some people, IMO. (end edit)

    Ken
    Last edited by Ken in KC; 03-30-2004 at 09:12 AM. Reason: Clarification.

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    Help screampint!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken in KC
    \
    Also, addressing pacman's comments:
    You're making some extremely broad based assumptions on the thread you cited as an example:
    Ken
    No assumptions here, the photo of the young lady shows exactly what many complaints cite: "Cyclists go around obstacles taking the smooth line on undistured soil, yada yada."

    Where the trail should be is not the point, how the trail is constructed is not the point, whether hikers or horses contribute is not the point. Hikers widen trails, horses make straight slopes concave, but that's not an excuse.

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    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacman
    No assumptions here, the photo of the young lady shows exactly what many complaints cite: "Cyclists go around obstacles taking the smooth line on undistured soil, yada yada."

    Where the trail should be is not the point, how the trail is constructed is not the point, whether hikers or horses contribute is not the point. Hikers widen trails, horses make straight slopes concave, but that's not an excuse.
    If the trail were constructed properly (not fall line) and there was no erosion (which there clearly is), would a trail user of any kind have to ride (walk or hike) around the exposed roots, since they wouldn't be exposed in the first place? Which is easier: Trying to educate 100% of all trail users on proper trail use (regardless of their knowledge of trail use) or to simply design and build the trails to minimize the impacts of the user?

    While there are some who claim that "Cyclists go around obstacles taking the smooth line on undistured soil, yada yada:" their contention is as easily dismissed by citing examples of bicyclists <b>not</b> doing exactly what they contend. That is of course followed up by a lecture of not jumping to broad based conclusions about mountain bikers (cyclists, if you prefer) and their trail use any more than someone should jump to a conclusion about <b>all</b> hikers based on this hiking only trail:

    <img src="http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/hiking(2).jpg">

    That "trail" is a recreational hiking trail that is obviously not designed, built or maintained properly. Are all hikers this irresponsible? Of course not! By citing sweeping generalization about trail user groups, people lose credibility.

    Should mountain bikers keep singletrack single? Sure they should, just as all other trail users should.

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    Some like it hard

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken in KC
    If the trail were constructed properly (not fall line) and there was no erosion (which there clearly is), would a trail user of any kind have to ride (walk or hike) around the exposed roots, since they wouldn't be exposed in the first place? Which is easier: Trying to educate 100% of all trail users on proper trail use (regardless of their knowledge of trail use) or to simply design and build the trails to minimize the impacts of the user?
    .
    Hi Ken, On a steep slope a properly constructed trail includes steps of rock or wood. (Sierra hikes seem to be all granite steps). Uphill hikers will use the steps, exhausted downhill hikers will babystep on the smooth slope, or cut a switchback and slide. Similarly bike riders make choices, some bike riders love the challenge and workout, others don't and look for a away around. There is no perfect trail, it's up to the users.

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    hahahahaha:

    (But if mountain biking is the high point of your week, as it seems
    to be for many mountain bikers, you must be leading a pretty dull life, off of
    the bike!)

    too funny!! maybe it is a sign of a problem when I'm out doing other "non-dull" stuff like drinking and partying that I'm still thinking, and talking about, mountain biking.

    it's obvious he just wants attention, otherwise he'd actually change his name/etc. when he posted. PhD? Attention-whore is more like it...

    dante

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    ... and if we just ... Phd's

    Quote Originally Posted by dante
    hahahahaha:

    (But if mountain biking is the high point of your week, as it seems
    to be for many mountain bikers, you must be leading a pretty dull life, off of
    the bike!)

    too funny!! maybe it is a sign of a problem when I'm out doing other "non-dull" stuff like drinking and partying that I'm still thinking, and talking about, mountain biking.

    it's obvious he just wants attention, otherwise he'd actually change his name/etc. when he posted. PhD? Attention-whore is more like it...

    dante
    Ph.d.'s you guys are so smart. We lmost forget how perfect you are.
    That said, Phd's are usually theones with no Clue. Like the ones who run the company I work for. No Clue of Reality.
    as demonstrated by that Psycho of a Ph.D. Michael J. Vandeman.
    Go terrorize someone else. Let us Huck!

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpatterson6
    Ph.d.'s you guys are so smart. We lmost forget how perfect you are.
    That said, Phd's are usually theones with no Clue. Like the ones who run the company I work for. No Clue of Reality.
    Go terrorize someone else. Let us Huck!

    Sore loser with no brains. People with your non-existing mental abilities are those who give all mountain bikers a bad reputation.

    If I see you "hucking" on my trails - expect a good knuckle sandwich for lunch. From a Ph.D., no less.

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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe
    Sore loser with no brains. People with your non-existing mental abilities are those who give all mountain bikers a bad reputation.

    If I see you "hucking" on my trails - expect a good knuckle sandwich for lunch. From a Ph.D., no less.
    Mr. Ph.d. you wouldnt even have a mountain bike to ride if it werent for guys like us.
    Again, you had to let someone else do the work while you take all the credit.
    "Huck yourself."
    This conversation is over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddy
    His PhD is in Psychology. No mathematician is that much of an idiot.
    No mathamatician is that much of an idiot? Please. Idiots come in all shapes, sizes- and college majors/degrees. His degree in Psychology has nothing to do w/ the fact this guy's an irrational ass. I have a Master's in Ed and a Master's in Psych., so I get a bit touchy when I hear comments like that.

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