Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 44
  1. #1
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
    Reputation: CHUM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    8,139

    American Hiking Society = OverreactingPanicFreakOut!

    Looks like the American Hiking Society is freaking out about us MTB'rs who would like to research sections of National Scenic Trails that would be suitable for Mountain Biking.

    They are requesting donations of $50,000 specifically to keep MTBr's from even evaluating if multi-use would work on sections of thousands and thousands of miles of underutilized public trails.

    weird huh?

    Hiking Experience at Risk on National Scenic Trails

    American Hiking Society (AHS) believes that National Scenic Trails, and/or sections of these trails, where mountain bikes are currently prohibited, should remain closed to bicycles...

    ...To effectively meet this threat, AHS needs your support!...

    ...particular segments of National Scenic Trails such as the Continental Divide Trail (where mountain bikers want to create a "megaEpic" ride), North Country Trail, and others, have been directly and publicly targeted for a concerted effort aimed at gaining access for mountain bikes...

    ...To ensure that we can respond rapidly to this latest threat AHS is seeking to raise $50,000 - to be used solely in these protection efforts....
    All this stems from IMBA announcing they would like to check out underutilized and suitable sections of National Scenic Trails that could easily accommodate MTB's....and the American Hiking Association decides to lose it's marbles by running a campaign like this...

    Why do these aging hiker groups hate our youth?
    American Hiking Society = OverreactingPanicFreakOut!-314989_10150324769041225_872628933_n.jpg
    [obligatory shot of toddler MTB'ing]
    Visit these 2 places to help advance trail access:
    http://www.sharingthepct.org/
    http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

  2. #2
    AZ
    AZ is offline
    banned
    Reputation: AZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    19,999
    They fear change and that is the only thing they cannot fight. Change is ever constant and they see the handwriting on the wall thus the extra ordinary measures, the "Hail Mary" so to speak. Change is coming, keep up the good work.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kubikeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    516
    This is a sad waste of people's money
    The cake is a lie.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    119
    I blame Strava douches.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    151
    Let's get a counter-donation going! I'll take one for the team and act as treasurer
    2002 Giant Rincon
    2012 Diamondback Podium 3
    2013 Specialized Stumpjumper EVO 29
    2013 Giant Anthem X Advanced 2

  6. #6
    Interplanetary Poultry
    Reputation: scatterbrained's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    220
    Unbelievable. It really makes me appreciate what we have here. All of the trails here have been put in by our organization, or resurrected and maintained by our organization so the hikers have to use our trails. You won't meet a hiker with an attitude here, because they know the trails exist because of Mt bikers.
    Editor In Chief, "Internet Tough Guy Magazine"
    "Home of Chuck Norris' Keyboard"

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mevadus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    131
    That is very low of AHS, particularly since I am currently sitting at work staring at the IMBA sticker I have on my Nalgene bottle. What does the slogan say.., "Better Trails For All".

  8. #8
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
    Reputation: CHUM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    8,139
    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    Unbelievable. It really makes me appreciate what we have here. All of the trails here have been put in by our organization, or resurrected and maintained by our organization so the hikers have to use our trails. You won't meet a hiker with an attitude here, because they know the trails exist because of Mt bikers.

    We have the same thing going on in many parts of Santa Cruz County - trails that are built/maintained by Mountain Bikers are equally utilized by hikers, dog walkers, trail runners - no conflict, no problem...
    Visit these 2 places to help advance trail access:
    http://www.sharingthepct.org/
    http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

  9. #9
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
    Reputation: CHUM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    8,139
    Here's a list of the American Hiking Society's sponsors that may have a problem with this....It's Facebook, so if you are a user sending comments is super duper easy:

    https://www.facebook.com/adventureme...rofile_browser

    https://www.facebook.com/Ospreypacks...rofile_browser

    https://www.facebook.com/REI?fref=pb

    https://www.facebook.com/GrandAmeric...rofile_browser

    https://www.facebook.com/thenorthface

    https://www.facebook.com/GerberLegendaryBlades

    https://www.facebook.com/LedLenserUSA

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Grego...s/109561876758

    https://www.facebook.com/TwoKnobbyTi...ocation=stream

    https://www.facebook.com/GoLite?hc_location=stream

    there's more....you can get to them via here:
    Corporate Sponsors | American Hiking SocietyAmerican Hiking Society


    if each one of these companies get 15 or 20 inquiries...well, that will put substantial pressure on the AHS and their anti-MTB policies.
    Visit these 2 places to help advance trail access:
    http://www.sharingthepct.org/
    http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

  10. #10
    Rep Power: Infinity
    Reputation: NateHawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    11,202
    Here in Indiana, a lot of the "general public" find that the trails that the mtb group builds and maintains turn out to be better than the old school ridgeline trails that use the fall line to go from one ridge to another and get nasty rutted.

    I have heard some of the crabby types upset by this process of change criticize the trails that mtb riders design and build, saying "it seems like the mountain bikers build trails around every tree in the forest" because they don't understand the concept of grade reversals in minimizing or eliminating erosion. There are a couple hiker groups here that are still building trail, and they're doing it the exact same way it's been done for 100 years. It's sad, really, because good trailbuilding techniques are not exclusively the property of any one user group and the parameters of the design can be modified to accommodate different types of users. The core concepts do not differ.

  11. #11
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
    Reputation: CHUM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    8,139
    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Here in Indiana, a lot of the "general public" find that the trails that the mtb group builds and maintains turn out to be better than the old school ridgeline trails that use the fall line to go from one ridge to another and get nasty rutted.

    I have heard some of the crabby types upset by this process of change criticize the trails that mtb riders design and build, saying "it seems like the mountain bikers build trails around every tree in the forest" because they don't understand the concept of grade reversals in minimizing or eliminating erosion. There are a couple hiker groups here that are still building trail, and they're doing it the exact same way it's been done for 100 years. It's sad, really, because good trailbuilding techniques are not exclusively the property of any one user group and the parameters of the design can be modified to accommodate different types of users. The core concepts do not differ.
    exactly - in a recent USFS decision regarding MTB access to a new re-route on the Continental Divide National Scenic Trail, the USFS flat out stated that MTBr's not only are the ones that actually build and maintain the trails...but the design class is virtually identical to that of hiking/equestrian trails.

    Many hiking groups are not enthused about that decision.

    Hey Nate, aren't you a fairly experienced backpacker? If so, what's your honest take on re-evaluating sections of underused trails opening up to MTB use?

    thanks!
    Visit these 2 places to help advance trail access:
    http://www.sharingthepct.org/
    http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

  12. #12
    Rep Power: Infinity
    Reputation: NateHawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    11,202
    I've done a bit of backbacking, but honestly most of my experience outdoors has been through work. I've had a few jobs (as well as a number of years of my education) where I'd work outside daily and cover sometimes 15-20mi in a day. On foot.

    My personal opinion on the matter is to make trails multiuse by default unless there are strong specific and documentable reasons not to. My primary reason for taking that position is that the more you spread users out, the less wear and tear you have in specific locations and the lower your chances for conflicts. A lot of hikers like to cite overuse as a reason not to allow mt bikes in a place. Many areas that have overuse problems have a permitting system in place and restrict the number of people on the trails in those areas already. I do not see why bikes cannot be included in said permitting system without increasing overall use. If concerns are "this trail was not designed to accommodate bikes" then the trail was also not designed to accommodate hikers.

    The biggest reason I see that most hikers do not want to share trails with bikes is because they cannot mentally handle sharing. They want to think that they're the only person on a given trail at a given time. I've hiked past these people at times, and they can be just as grumpy about other hikers on the trail. Also, add to the fact that many are old and crotchety, anyway, and oftentimes hard of hearing (announcing yourself with a polite "Excuse me" from a good distance back doesn't work) and you have a recipe for many hikers not wanting to share.

    When it comes to federal land and other large open spaces (like state forests) where off-trail hiking is permitted, I think multiuse trails should be the rule rather than the exception, because hikers (and sometimes horses) are permitted to go just about wherever they want by rule. Bikes are not afforded the same considerations.

    On a personal level, I don't mind stepping off the trail to allow someone on a mountain bike to pass. Even when I'm carrying a pack. The pack doesn't cripple me, as some hikers seem to try to make you believe. As long as the person on the bike slows and politely asks to pass. It doesn't ruin my day, or my hike. I'm just not going to jump into a cactus or down a ravine to let that happen.

  13. #13
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
    Reputation: CHUM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    8,139
    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    I've done a bit of backbacking, but honestly most of my experience outdoors has been through work. I've had a few jobs (as well as a number of years of my education) where I'd work outside daily and cover sometimes 15-20mi in a day. On foot.

    My personal opinion on the matter is to make trails multiuse by default unless there are strong specific and documentable reasons not to. My primary reason for taking that position is that the more you spread users out, the less wear and tear you have in specific locations and the lower your chances for conflicts. A lot of hikers like to cite overuse as a reason not to allow mt bikes in a place. Many areas that have overuse problems have a permitting system in place and restrict the number of people on the trails in those areas already. I do not see why bikes cannot be included in said permitting system without increasing overall use. If concerns are "this trail was not designed to accommodate bikes" then the trail was also not designed to accommodate hikers.

    The biggest reason I see that most hikers do not want to share trails with bikes is because they cannot mentally handle sharing. They want to think that they're the only person on a given trail at a given time. I've hiked past these people at times, and they can be just as grumpy about other hikers on the trail. Also, add to the fact that many are old and crotchety, anyway, and oftentimes hard of hearing (announcing yourself with a polite "Excuse me" from a good distance back doesn't work) and you have a recipe for many hikers not wanting to share.

    When it comes to federal land and other large open spaces (like state forests) where off-trail hiking is permitted, I think multiuse trails should be the rule rather than the exception, because hikers (and sometimes horses) are permitted to go just about wherever they want by rule. Bikes are not afforded the same considerations.

    On a personal level, I don't mind stepping off the trail to allow someone on a mountain bike to pass. Even when I'm carrying a pack. The pack doesn't cripple me, as some hikers seem to try to make you believe. As long as the person on the bike slows and politely asks to pass. It doesn't ruin my day, or my hike. I'm just not going to jump into a cactus or down a ravine to let that happen.
    how dare you clutter this forum with common sense and a well thought out easy solution!!!
    Visit these 2 places to help advance trail access:
    http://www.sharingthepct.org/
    http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

  14. #14
    CrgCrkRyder
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2,047
    When I read their (AHS) posts I can't help but think its all about the money. They are probably trying to tap in to some disillusioned cash rich ex-Sierra Club members.
    http://s227.photobucket.com/albums/dd66/CraigCreekRider
    Its Jake - From State Farm. What are you wearing?

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    598
    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    I've done a bit of backbacking, but honestly most of my experience outdoors has been through work. I've had a few jobs (as well as a number of years of my education) where I'd work outside daily and cover sometimes 15-20mi in a day. On foot.
    Nate, what was it that you did for work, and what did you study? Sounds awesome.
    Stay aware of those who hide in plain sight.

  16. #16
    Rep Power: Infinity
    Reputation: NateHawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    11,202

    American Hiking Society = OverreactingPanicFreakOut!

    Worked for the USFS for a couple of seasons as a wildlife technician in a couple different states. This is where I spent most of my time outside for work.

    Also worked as an environmental consultant. Much less walking for that one.

    Studied biology and wildlife in school. I worked on a few research projects over the years with a lot of outside time in remote places.

  17. #17
    Professional Crastinator
    Reputation: Fleas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,278
    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    ...have been directly and publicly targeted...
    Yes. Yes they were.
    .
    .
    .


    Great answers, Nate! It's funny (not "ha ha" funny... peculiar and tragic funny) how such sound logic is somehow corrupted by these self-proclaimed "environmentalists" who want the world with a fence around it. Yours is the right message.

    -F
    It's never easier - you just go faster.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    838
    A well built trail will hold up to lots of use. Most trail users don't understand that water run off is the most common degrading factor. That and stuff with motors.

  19. #19
    Master of the Face Plant
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,815
    A good example of Nates arguement about spreading users out is Marin. With the limited options available for legal riding places that are legal get hammered like China Camp. Then, hikers and Equestrians site the overcrowded legal areas as a reason to keep other areas off limits.

    All I can say is in response to the AHS thing I was reminded that my IMBA membership had expired. I renewed today, I also sent the following email to all 1700 members of my local MTB meetup group. Hopefully I can get a few newbies to sign up.

    "Good afternoon, I just wanted to drop everyone a quick note to recognize the great work done by our local chapter of the International Mountain Bike Association (IMBA). The San Diego Mountain Bike Association has worked with the Center For Natural Lands Management to create a great new trail behind La Costa Preserve called Copper Canyon. Rich Julien, Liason to La Costa Preserve worked diligently to get us access and lay out a sustainable fun trail design. It is really a great trail and a great effort in San Diegos ever dwindling trail riding locations. You can check out details and photos of the trail here: SDMBA - San Diego Mountain Biking Association
    Photos Here: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...6071171&type=1
    This is just another example of how IMBA and its local affiliates are expanding trail opportunities for all of us in addition to combating recent attempts to ban bikes from our local trails. If you have not already joined please consider joining. Our trail access is under constant threat. Your $30 dollar single membership helps support worthwhile trail projects, trailwork, and most importantly advocacy. Please go to SDMBA - San Diego Mountain Biking Association and click on Join Now!!! Membership gets you a subscription to bicyling magazine, a pair of cool socks and tons of discounts from sponsors like Stone Brewing, REI, Turner Bikes etc."
    http://www.nbbikes.com/
    ^^^Best Bike Shop of MTBR 2008^^^

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    598
    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Worked for the USFS for a couple of seasons as a wildlife technician in a couple different states. This is where I spent most of my time outside for work.

    Also worked as an environmental consultant. Much less walking for that one.

    Studied biology and wildlife in school. I worked on a few research projects over the years with a lot of outside time in remote places.
    Ah, thanks Nate. I've been mulling over changing direction for a while and your post really caught my attention. 'Preciate that!
    Stay aware of those who hide in plain sight.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    174
    Here in Aus that is a message that we push all the time. The various organisations work very hard to get access to the national parks. an area that was previously off limits to pushbikes. 3 years ago or so the National Parks service put out a proposal to open up national parks with sustainable trials built and maintained by the various mtb clubs. I went to one of the townhalls meetings and it was friggen hilarious watching the greenies screaming about damaging the plants. The clubs game back and said, we will only being going into areas deemed not enviromentally senitive and out trails will be better built than some of the current walking trails as we prefer trails that will last and not get damaged. The result places like glenrock were opened as an experiment, including a downhill track and seem to be a complete success with the trail fairys building and maintaining the tracks. MT Stromlo was out shining example, a multi use park proposed by the Canberra Off Road Club (CORC) that has an cross country track, firetrails for the walkers, a trial park, a crit track and a horse trail. and many km of sweeeeet single track for all levels and a DH track used for the wold champs a couple of years ago. the local gov stumped up half the funding, corc the other half witha permant pavillion with first aid room, showers and toilets and facilities to help run major events its proving to be a roaring success for all users.
    sadly some of the single track elsewhere in Canberra has been sabotaged by the same sorts of idiots that you where just taking about with bridges destroyed, wire strung between trees or logs dragged across trials. dangerous as hell.

  22. #22
    beater
    Reputation: evasive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    3,304
    This is the subject of the most recent IMBA blog post.

    (The trail in the photo is actually one of my local favorites.)
    "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." - Dr. Peter Venkman

    Riding in Helena? Everything you need to know, right here.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    168
    So, I visited the AHS website. You can donate any some of money - Including $0.01 - kind of like a one penny tip at a restaurant. The donation is paid by your credit card.

    I did not complete the transaction. I am not sure what impact a $0.01 donation may have.

    On one hand, subversion. I have donated money to charitable things. They always end up sending me fliers, magazines, return address labels, etc. I often feel the money spent on sending me junk for five years would have been better spent on whatever charitable purpose the organization represents.

    With that in mind, a $0.01 donation will cost them money to process and paid credit card fees. Additionally, if I get on their mailing list for the next X years - they will have wasted a bunch of money on me instead of pursuing their goal of trials for hikers alone.

    On the other hand, my idea is a bit mean spirited - and I then get tossed into a bucket of X thousand of people support the AHS cause.

    What are your thoughts on a $0.01 donation?

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: telemike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    204
    Are they evil? Greedy?

    Maybe not. Maybe they're sick of "on yer left" as six bikers force them into the bushes to avoid collision. When the adrenaline from that sudden "on yer left" wears off, they like MTBers even less than when they started.

    Yes, there are some Mike Vandeman jerks out there that just hate anything that they don't do, but there are also a lot of inconsiderate ballistic jerks on MTBs that expect that the trail is theirs and you'd better hurry out of the way.

    Lots of the animus between hikers and horsey people and MTBers is well earned by inconsiderate reckless MTBers.

    The issue is complex and the ballistic jerks among us will ensure that we never get much more access than we have now and that we may even keep losing some access we have now.

    Thank goodness that MTBs don't leave MTB turds all over the trail! We'd really be in trouble.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,968
    Quote Originally Posted by telemike View Post
    Are they evil? Greedy?

    Maybe not. Maybe they're sick of "on yer left" as six bikers force them into the bushes to avoid collision. When the adrenaline from that sudden "on yer left" wears off, they like MTBers even less than when they started.

    Yes, there are some Mike Vandeman jerks out there that just hate anything that they don't do, but there are also a lot of inconsiderate ballistic jerks on MTBs that expect that the trail is theirs and you'd better hurry out of the way.

    Lots of the animus between hikers and horsey people and MTBers is well earned by inconsiderate reckless MTBers.

    The issue is complex and the ballistic jerks among us will ensure that we never get much more access than we have now and that we may even keep losing some access we have now.

    Thank goodness that MTBs don't leave MTB turds all over the trail! We'd really be in trouble.
    This is one of the problems I have with stuff like Strava. Public, shared, multi-use trails should not be used for xc mtb race-training, especially in areas where there is already a tension between cyclists on trails and hikers, and equestrians. I wouldn't want to find a horse galloping full-tilt at me around a twisty section of singletrack.....
    Re-Cycled Person who rides a mountain bicycle.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. New American Hiking Society logo....
    By rideit in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 08-06-2013, 08:34 PM
  2. American Hiking Society doesn't want to share trails...
    By SkaredShtles in forum Colorado - Front Range
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 08-03-2013, 12:30 PM
  3. Where do I buy a Society Fury fork in the US?
    By AC/BC in forum Where are the Best Deals?
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-09-2013, 07:51 PM
  4. Average American perception of American Beer
    By Guerdonian in forum Beer Forum
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 09-25-2011, 11:15 AM
  5. OT: Hiking (yes hiking) and Lodging Near Nevada City..
    By cohenfive in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 06-26-2011, 10:09 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •