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  1. #1
    mtbr member
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    Almost ran over the ranger.... need damage control help.

    After being sick last week with a nasty cold and not getting much riding in I broke away Saturday for a nice spin around one of my favorite new trails (Twisted Pine at Cave Lake State Park). The descent is one of funnest pieces of singletrack I've ridden. It is a multi-use trail for hikers, bikers, and horses but non-motorized.

    Well, I was just getting into the first good down hill section which goes along a side hill and has pretty good visibilty when I see an older gentleman in green scrambling up the slope to get off the trail as he hears me coming. He was still a good 10-15 yards away at this point and even if he hadn't moved I'm pretty sure I could've stopped or veered off the trail to miss him. I came to complete stop just past him (he was well off the trail by now) and turned around and apologized and asked him if he was OK. He just turned around a stomped off up the trail.

    I asked him again if he was ok and finally he grudingly turned around and said yes, but I shouldn't be going so fast on this trail, there may be other hikers. I could tell he was miffed and from the looks of him, (ranger uniform, walking stick, smokey bear hat) I kind of assume he's official.

    I apologized again, and said he was right, I shouldn't've been going that fast especially on a weekend mid-day (I usually ride this trail on a week day between 6:00 and 7:30 am so almost never see another soul). I assured him I'd slow down and be more careful.

    D'Oh.... I felt like Maverick or some other 15 year old downhill kid with no respect for other trail users. I am not. I'm old, responsible, and involved in trail building, maintenance, and public land issues in my area.

    I'm worried now this guy will make a stink and try and do something about getting bikes banned on this trail... What can I do to control the damage at this point?


    The worst part of it was that after I passed him I went out and did some hike-a-biking around the area off trail scouting out some locations for a new technical trail that the local trail guy and FS are planning. When I came climbing back up onto the trail two hours later I see him coming down the trail again... I ditched behind a tree (I felt like a criminal) until he passed....then realized that unless I wanted to climb clear back up to the top I had no choice but to continue down and face having to pass him again.

    The next passing didn't go a lot better. I saw him well in advance and slowed way down but he still panicked and scrambled, falling up the steep sidehill to get out of the way. The whole time I'm talking to him and telling him he's fine... he doesn't have to do that, I can get off and let him pass etc... but he just mumbled something about getting out of my way and I thanked him and told him to have a nice day in as pleasant a voice as I could muster.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
    Isaiah 58:14

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  2. #2
    Nat
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    Oh great. K Rob blew it!

  3. #3
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    Nice,
    After all the work we've been doing to get mountain bikes off the enemy number one list in Nevada -- You go and mess it all up! At least you didn't run over any small children --Did you? Okay, just kidding. Some days you just can't win for trying.

    matt

  4. #4
    On MTBR hiatus :(
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    Dang.

    I think you have to shoot him and hide his body in the woods.

    Either that, or bake him some brownies.

    Dang.
    speedub.nate
    ∑ MTBR Hiatus UFN ∑

  5. #5
    He be a moose too.
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    The fifteen y.o. downhill kid wouldn't have stopped to say 'sorry'. Perhaps the ranger was having a bad day. Maybe you were going a little too fast but you showed contrition and not much more you can do. I've apologized on occasion to people and they dealt with it very poorly. My suspicion is that they weren't expecting it and weren't sure how to deal with it.

    Pinguwin

  6. #6
    post-ride specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    Dang.

    I think you have to shoot him and hide his body in the woods.
    ....

    Nah, blunt trauma. Then gone back with a quad and left tracks to make it look like hit and run.
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  7. #7
    Young, Shawn Young
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    Glad I rode there before the hammer comes down:P
    "Im just going to explore a little bit..."

    Dont make me be the bad guy...

    Do I need a pass to ride this trail?

  8. #8
    Uphill hater
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    "I felt like Maverick or some other 15 year old downhill kid with no respect for other trail users."

    Nice XC snobbery and generalization.
    Why did Kamikaze pilots wear helmets?

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  9. #9
    Masher
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    Yeah, maybe you should have said: "I felt like Maverick and some of the other 15 year old downhill kids on this board that show no respect for other trail users.", then it would be more accurate.

    You could approach the ranger and suggest or volunteer to improve the sight lines on the trail by cutting back some of the brush that limits visibility?

  10. #10
    JMH
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    Cutting back brush and widening the sight lines typically only causes increased speeds. Tight singletrack keeps riders slow so they can stay on the trail. The reduced warning when you meet other users is a tradeoff, but at least you can stop.

    A nice bear bell does a fabulous job of alerting others to your imminent presence. Put it on for the long descents, stuff it in your camelback for the climbs?

    Krob- Sometimes you just get into situations that are best left alone! I don't think you can win this one. It always makes me feel guilty when I encounter a "jumper" on the trail. You could be standing still 50 yards up the trail and they go scrambling 20ft up the slope for the nearest stand of trees and then mutter at you the entire time you are in earshot. I just don't get it, but there is nothing you can do.

    JMH

    Quote Originally Posted by fishbum
    Yeah, maybe you should have said: "I felt like Maverick and some of the other 15 year old downhill kids on this board that show no respect for other trail users.", then it would be more accurate.

    You could approach the ranger and suggest or volunteer to improve the sight lines on the trail by cutting back some of the brush that limits visibility?

  11. #11
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    speaking from experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by icegeek
    Nah, blunt trauma. Then gone back with a quad and left tracks to make it look like hit and run.
    ...um, you say that w/ too much authority.


    --


    krob, next time just don a fake, thick accent and tell him in broken english that in your country old people aren't allowed outside, so you didn't expect to see him on the trail. then mumble something about lunchtime and ask if he's seen any equestrians...

  12. #12
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinguwin
    The fifteen y.o. downhill kid wouldn't have stopped to say 'sorry'. Perhaps the ranger was having a bad day. Maybe you were going a little too fast but you showed contrition and not much more you can do. I've apologized on occasion to people and they dealt with it very poorly. My suspicion is that they weren't expecting it and weren't sure how to deal with it.

    Pinguwin
    But then he slinked around in the woods like a ninja. Ranger was probably upset because K Rob jumped out at him looking like:
    .
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  13. #13
    Just roll it......
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    agree with JMH. You slowed down and then stopped and said you were sorry for the speed.....the guy was a curmudgeon. Not a lot more you can do about the situation.

    Cheers,
    EB

  14. #14
    i worship Mr T
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    sometimes you just have to shrug your shoulders and say 'oh well, i did the best i could.'

    i was once riding fireroad and passed a group of people walking with plenty of warning and space. they freaked out from the noise of my tires on the gravel/dirt. the next time i came up on them i called out "on your left" and the person i was trying to pass stepped....to her left! so i corrected to the right just as she realized what she'd done and stepped to the right. needless to say, even braking as well as i could, i ran right into her calling out "SORRY!!' as i hit her. i stopped, apologized profusely, offered to get help (she had a cut on her knee), offered to run home and get a first aid kit, apologized some more. it was no one's fault yet she and her friends told me to go away and threatened to call the cops on me because i was "riding too fast" and "scaring people". i

    you apologized. you were careful the next time you saw him. you did everything you could to make up for scaring him the first time. hopefully he'll take that into consideration and this will be just one bad moment in his long happy life.

    my $0.02
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner1
    "I felt like Maverick or some other 15 year old downhill kid with no respect for other trail users."

    Nice XC snobbery and generalization.
    True... and that was kind of the secondary point of the post. Even an old, responsible, normally courteous trail user can come off getting stereotyped by another trail user that only sees a "crazy, out of control, armoured up, punk", destroying nature and trying to ruin the peaceful serenity of his casual morning hike.

    So, my apologies to those I've stereotyped in the past. Obviously not all older, sensible, responsible XC riders have good trail etequette and not all young, impetuous, devil-may-care downhillers are bad trail users...... not only that... but not all older responsible courteous trail users are just XC riders (I was out to explore some technical features for a proposed future trail and had my 6.6 and full armour) and vice versa.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
    Isaiah 58:14

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  16. #16
    Nat
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    Send the Ranger some flowers to his office.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner1
    "I felt like Maverick or some other 15 year old downhill kid with no respect for other trail users."

    Nice XC snobbery and generalization.

    I LOVE how politically correct mountain bikers have become. "Ohh, you hurt my feeling AND insulted my style of riding, please apologize and make me feel better", get over it.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
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    We just ride...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    Cutting back brush and widening the sight lines typically only causes increased speeds. Tight singletrack keeps riders slow so they can stay on the trail. The reduced warning when you meet other users is a tradeoff, but at least you can stop.
    Funny you should mention that. The ironic thing is that when they first cut in the trail it was tighter and a bit rougher in that section and they kept cutting back trees and brush and smoothing it and widening the bench. When we tried to point out to them that it would actually be safer and cause the bikes to go slower if they left it rougher and tighter they gave us the "multi-use standard" yadda yadda" answer. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I think this was the very ranger that told us that. Maybe he understands now.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    Krob- Sometimes you just get into situations that are best left alone! I don't think you can win this one. It always makes me feel guilty when I encounter a "jumper" on the trail. You could be standing still 50 yards up the trail and they go scrambling 20ft up the slope for the nearest stand of trees and then mutter at you the entire time you are in earshot. I just don't get it, but there is nothing you can do.

    JMH
    Yeah, I think this was the case. Probably not much else I could've done .
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
    Isaiah 58:14

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  19. #19
    post-ride specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    I LOVE how politically correct mountain bikers have become. "Ohh, you hurt my feeling AND insulted my style of riding, please apologize and make me feel better", get over it.
    Clearly it's the roadie cross-over crowd.
    Since when did Need have anything to do with this?

  20. #20
    mtbr member
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by icegeek
    Clearly it's the roadie cross-over crowd.
    Hey! I resemble that remark! WTF?!
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  21. #21
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    Hey! I resemble that remark! WTF?!
    Quick, someone apologize!

  22. #22
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    Hope

    Nat, thank you for considering my feelings. Although you weren't the one specifically (icegeek, you heartless bastard!) who insulted me (at least in this thread) and my particular style of riding I can at least take comfort in the fact that some faceless stranger out there in internet-land who I'll probably never meet is thinking about how much I hurt right now.
    Gone are the days we stopped to decide,
    Where we should go,
    We just ride...

  23. #23
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    Nat, thank you for considering my feelings. Although you weren't the one specifically (icegeek, you heartless bastard!) who insulted me (at least in this thread) and my particular style of riding I can at least take comfort in the fact that some faceless stranger out there in internet-land who I'll probably never meet is thinking about how much I hurt right now.
    A bouquet of flowers is on its way. You can begin the healing soon.

  24. #24
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    I agree with other posters, shoot him and put him in he woods!

    Any how this sounds like this guy had a typical eco nazi reaction. "Oh my gosh there is an evil trail user (insert anything other than a hiker) they are obviously on an out of control rampage and I must fling myself to safety!!!!"
    Then after you pass and they grumble even after you attempt to appolgize for not really doing anything wrong.
    He will go on to spin tales of how he was almost killed by a pack of rabid _____ (insert non hiking trail user of chioce here) and they must be evicted from all public lands.

    You did all you could to apologize even in the fact you really didn't do anything wrong. Just gotta accept that there are many a turd out there.

  25. #25
    Loser
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob
    but not all older responsible courteous trail users are just XC riders ...
    Being the older, responsible XC type, I had a strange thing happen a few weeks ago. I was riding at a popular spot, one I go to very often and have been for 20 years. I know every rock.

    I come around an open (not blind) corner, see two noobies fighting their way down a technical descent. The one further back fell off his bike and let me pass before he got back on. The one in front was way off to the right, and as this is a highly used system, there is plenty of room to pass on the left. I'm moving at a good clip, but in complete control (from my perspective). When I get close enough I yell out "on your left" and execute a perfect pass, didn't let off the gas, and gave the noob plenty of room (from my perspective). Just as I pass he yells out "Effing PUNKS!" I guess he didn't get a good look at me, as I'm old enough to be his father.

    Anyway, I felt terrible, I obviously scared the guy. As I said I was moving pretty good and had someone right on my tail, I didn't stop - but in retrospect I probably should have, just to set it right. I waited for just a bit at the top of the next hill, but they never showed up - I guess they took a turn.

    In any event, first time I've been called a punk since I was one and shows that even doing the "right" thing is not always perceived the way you think its going to be perceived.

  26. #26
    Linoleum Knife
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    Thanks for screwing it up for EVERYONE.


  27. #27
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    The same thing happened to me

    This past weekend I was riding a trail I've been riding for about 12 years, but has become overrun with equestrians in the last 5. I always go out of my way to make sure I'm curteous to the horsemen, and I always ride 'heads up' when going downhill. I came around a corner and was greeted by about 10 horses, and it scared the pants off of me! I grabbed a handjul of front brake in the panic, and rolled my tire off the rim, which pretty much caused a giant yard sale, spooking a couple of the horses and sending them bolting. I wasn't going all that fast, and had plenty of time to stop (the horses were still a good 30-40 feet from me when I finally got up off the mat), but in the calamity of the tire blowing off, and the dirt flying, it probably seemed as though I was outta control. Most of the equestrians were cool, and understood, but one older gentleman was clearly bent, and refused to even acknowledge my apology.

    What really sucks is that all the people we (as mountain bikers) go out of our way to be kind to probably never say anything to anyone, but tick one guy off, and he'll tell everyone what an a-hole mtbers are. I feel like all the work I've done in 12 years up there to help us all get along was undone in one small incident.

  28. #28
    The Notorious S.L.O
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    what I don't get.....

    they way hikers way over-react when they see me. When approaching one from behind, I slow to an absolute crawl before I call out, then they turn and just freak, running left, right and in circles. When approaching going the opposite direction, I often see them long before they see me, again slowing to a crawl, but when the finally do see me, same reaction, freak out scurry 10 yards off the trail into the woods. what the heck?
    I realize that I am 250lbs of rider coming down the trail, but when the finally see me, they all react like an ipod user approached from behind.....and that is one user that I don't feel badly when I see the panic and the frantic scurry to get out of the way of a mtb biker approaching at 3mph.
    BT
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  29. #29
    Loser
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    When I approach hikers from the front or the back, I click my brake levers. Usually that alerts them to presence without startling them. I think no matter how you "call out" you will startle someone.

    John

  30. #30
    zrm
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    I always ride trails that I know are popular as if there is always someone around the next blind corner. When i see a hiker, I'll slow down to a crawl or stop as I'm calling out to them. Often I startle them regardless of all this, but 95% of them are cool (eco-nazis??? where do some of you guys get that term, Rush Limbaugh?? ) about it and friendly once they get over their surprise. Usually they'll step off the trail and let me pass which I do slowly with a friendly "thank you, nice day for a hike, etc".
    Yes, riding like this means on popular trails I'm not going as fast as I can and my "flow" might be interrupted, but being courteous is something that is not only the right thing to do from the perspective of preserving trail access, but it's simply the characteristic of a any decent, civil, society.
    That said, you can't please everyone and some folks will never like the idea that mountain bikes are on trails, but I think those folks are a small minority. In my experience, most hikers are regular folks like everyone else and if treated with respect and courtesy will treat you the same way.
    As far as what you can do, just ride responsibly, encourage those you ride with to do the same, call bulls**t on "Mountian Dew" mountian biking in inappropriate places. Do your part on trail work days, be nice to others you meet on the trail. That's all you can do and IMO and experience, as long as the mountain bike community behaves this way, we'll have plenty of great places to ride

  31. #31
    RIP 12/95 - 02/09
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    No worries....

    Where ever I ride, I notice people often scramble out of the way when they see a rider coming. A few more years, we'll have all of them trained. Well, maybe not the horses.

    lol.

  32. #32
    I like Squishy Bikes
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    you'd be surprised

    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    Send the Ranger some flowers to his office.
    or you may not be surprised...
    some Rangers like to browse Mtbr (in a Big Brother kinda way)

    I love it when Hikers walk 2X2 on the trail (with their unleashed dogs).
    A dirty book is rarely dusty

  33. #33
    I plead the fizif
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    I seem to more often than not come across hikers that are walking the wrong way on a multi-use trail. They are going in the bike direction, so I come up behind them. I always give a "comin' up behind ya" at least 30 or 40 yards away while going fairly slowly so they have some time to react and are less likely to be startled if I am not right up on them. Sometimes they are surprised and jump, and I say "sorry, didn't mean to startle you" when I pass them. In this situation I let them decide which side to be on and ride on past. If they are going the right way on the path and see me coming head on, 99% of the time nothing needs to be said outside of "Good Morning" and I pull over to a full stop and let them past. They, after all, do have the right of way.

    Just about every time I come across someone walking the wrong way (it is posted and on the maps) I feel like telling them that they actually aren't walking the right way (to avoid accidents, etc), but can never figure out a way to say it that doesn't sound ...... well, pissy, so I don't say anything.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm

    Often I startle them regardless of all this, but 95% of them are cool (eco-nazis??? where do some of you guys get that term, Rush Limbaugh?? )
    Eco Nazis are those who want it to be only their fellow greeny hikers on the trail with them. They want nothing with wheels to be allowed off the pavement be it dirt bike, atv, 4wd vehical, or a mountain bike. So by wanting to close down access to all but one type of user and using sometimes unethical tactics to get that result they have earned their nicname of eco nazi's. These are the fawktards that are trying to close our trails. You don't have to be a right winger to see that.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by beadlock
    they way hikers way over-react when they see me. When approaching one from behind, I slow to an absolute crawl before I call out, then they turn and just freak, running left, right and in circles. When approaching going the opposite direction, I often see them long before they see me, again slowing to a crawl, but when the finally do see me, same reaction, freak out scurry 10 yards off the trail into the woods. what the heck?
    I realize that I am 250lbs of rider coming down the trail, but when the finally see me, they all react like an ipod user approached from behind.....and that is one user that I don't feel badly when I see the panic and the frantic scurry to get out of the way of a mtb biker approaching at 3mph.
    I know exactly what you mean. Sometimes I have too laugh at their reaction, even when they"ve see me 50 yards away. Its obvious that some people make an concerted effort too make it seem I am totally out of control, and about to crash into them by flailing wildly running off the trail. I make sure too ask them if their ok if its aparent they may exaggarating a bit. Some people amaze me.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by palerider
    I know exactly what you mean. Sometimes I have too laugh at their reaction, even when they"ve see me 50 yards away. Its obvious that some people make an concerted effort too make it seem I am totally out of control, and about to crash into them by flailing wildly running off the trail. I make sure too ask them if their ok if its aparent they may exaggarating a bit. Some people amaze me.
    Yea. I had that problem a lot. Now I always shout "rider up" or "rider back" when i see them even if they see me first or not, because a lot of hikers tend to be in their own little world and don't notice things coming directly at them. I don't say on your left or on your right because I've almost hit people who realize they moved to the wrong side (as mentioned before), I let them decide where to move then I pass them. It doesn't work perfectly, some hikers still get really scared and run off the trail, but they'll do that whatever you do.
    "My scraper bike go hard, I don't need no car."

  37. #37
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    People spend to much time worring about what people think of them. Just ride and enjoy!

  38. #38
    zrm
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    Quote Originally Posted by pappaf2
    Eco Nazis are those who want it to be only their fellow greeny hikers on the trail with them. They want nothing with wheels to be allowed off the pavement be it dirt bike, atv, 4wd vehical, or a mountain bike. So by wanting to close down access to all but one type of user and using sometimes unethical tactics to get that result they have earned their nicname of eco nazi's. These are the fawktards that are trying to close our trails. You don't have to be a right winger to see that.
    Maybe it's different where you are, but we have none of that here where I live in Summit County Colorado. We have a pretty good relationship with hkers, the Forest Service, the local open space departments and even (gasp) the environmental groups

    Usually I've found that when you take the time to talk to folks who have different desires than you or negative disposition about your group, you usually find that they have come to their point of view due to some negative experience(s) they have had, or because in their mind they see something they value being threatend and/or degraded.

    One of the first things I try to do when someone accuses me of doing something negative is to consider how much, if any, truth is in their accusation. Sometimes there is and if there is, I try to improve my behavior. If there isn't any truth, then I try to come to an understanding with the other person. While there are people that no amount of reasoning will reach, I've found that most people are pretty reasonable when treated with respect.

    I have spent almost twenty years working on helping keep mountain bike trails open and in good shape and build new trails. One of the first things I did was ask myself if there was truth in what some of the detractors of our sport where saying. What I found was there was so one of the first things we did was start an education campaign. We actually helped to close or re-route some bandit trails. This gained us a great deal of credibility with land managers, private property owners and other user groups and environmental groups.
    I have served on many citizensí advisory boards and sat across the table with hikers, horseback riders, dirt bikers, Jeepers, ATVers, snowmobiliers, you name it. While it is sometimes impossible to come up with consensus solutions to conflict, I've found that in the very least, we can come to respect each others passion for whatever it is that is important to us.

    Calling people "fawktards" who are trying to close "your" trails (My trail? you mean as in it's on private property?) without putting a little effort to understand where they are coming from is 1. Not going to preserve or increase mountain biking opportunities and 2. Not helping your own personal Karma.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm
    Maybe it's different where you are, but we have none of that here where I live in Summit County Colorado. We have a pretty good relationship with hkers, the Forest Service, the local open space departments and even (gasp) the environmental groups

    Usually I've found that when you take the time to talk to folks who have different desires than you or negative disposition about your group, you usually find that they have come to their point of view due to some negative experience(s) they have had, or because in their mind they see something they value being threatend and/or degraded.

    One of the first things I try to do when someone accuses me of doing something negative is to consider how much, if any, truth is in their accusation. Sometimes there is and if there is, I try to improve my behavior. If there isn't any truth, then I try to come to an understanding with the other person. While there are people that no amount of reasoning will reach, I've found that most people are pretty reasonable when treated with respect.

    I have spent almost twenty years working on helping keep mountain bike trails open and in good shape and build new trails. One of the first things I did was ask myself if there was truth in what some of the detractors of our sport where saying. What I found was there was so one of the first things we did was start an education campaign. We actually helped to close or re-route some bandit trails. This gained us a great deal of credibility with land managers, private property owners and other user groups and environmental groups.
    I have served on many citizens’ advisory boards and sat across the table with hikers, horseback riders, dirt bikers, Jeepers, ATVers, snowmobiliers, you name it. While it is sometimes impossible to come up with consensus solutions to conflict, I've found that in the very least, we can come to respect each others passion for whatever it is that is important to us.

    Calling people "fawktards" who are trying to close "your" trails (My trail? you mean as in it's on private property?) without putting a little effort to understand where they are coming from is 1. Not going to preserve or increase mountain biking opportunities and 2. Not helping your own personal Karma.
    I am happy that you have a better relationship with those people in your neck of the woods. I live in California where currently groups like the Sierra Club and others are doing their best to close lands to all but hikers. In some places the Forest Service is very helpful and willing to work with those who use the lands. In Eldorado national Forest, one area I enjoy recreating, they are not at all helpful to anyone who wishes to experiance the forest on anything with wheels. Currently they are trying to shut down about 3/4 of all the four wheel drive routes in the forest and even with much public outcry agaist the closers they don't really take any of the seriously. Sure a mountain bike isn;t a 4 wheel drive but they are means to the same end, experiancing the outdoors via wheeled transport. For a more bike centered example just check out the NorCal forum on here. There are many a example of the East Bay Regional Parks (San Fran area) not giving any love for mountain bikers not matter how they (bikers) try to make things work to get more trails open.

    I am just getting back into mountain biking and am only the ripe old age of 25 so I can't say I have fought to keep bike trails open yet, but I have spent several years and much time trying to keep four wheel drive trails open, doing trail matinence and try to help educate the public about proper use. Now that I am getting into biking I plan on devoting some time to keeping mountain bike trails open. Although I am and always have been "Access for All !!!"

    Anyhow sure there irrisponsable users out there of mountain bikes. There are also irrisponsable people driving cars on freeways all over the world. According to the "Eco Nazi's" logic because we have all had experiances with irrisposable drivers we should outlaw cars on the freeway.
    Any resonable person knows that there are a few in every group that are irrisponsable. What those groups fail to realize is that we're not all bad. They just wish to see us banned.
    I wish and hope that they could see the light that we are a good bunch but I'm not going to hold my breath. Maybe calling them fawktards isn't great but thats what I think of them. The ones we are dealing with out here are not reasonable, and don't seem to want to rethink thier views on wheeled trail users IMO.
    BTW I don't think I said "my" trails I said "our" trails as in everyone's trails: hiker, biker, atv rider, dirt biker, 4 wheeler, equestrian, etc. Public land for public use.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob
    So, my apologies to those I've stereotyped in the past. Obviously not all older, sensible, responsible XC riders have good trail etequette and not all young, impetuous, devil-may-care downhillers are bad trail users...... not only that... but not all older responsible courteous trail users are just XC riders (I was out to explore some technical features for a proposed future trail and had my 6.6 and full armour) and vice versa.
    Cool, I'm with you. I am a very older trail user who just started DH and even on some of my local XC trails, I armour up sometimes!

    Just run over the damn ranger next time and leave him covered in a pile of horse poop for a hiker to find. Now THAT'S multiuse trail!!!!
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  41. #41
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    i run CK hubs and they are LOUD! that will usually warn the hikers i'm on the way.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoFaster2
    People spend to much time worring about what people think of them. Just ride and enjoy!
    It's not about being popular or well liked. It's about being safe and allowing others to feel safe. I can blaze through a couple of trees with 2" spare at high speed so I can certainly buzz a hiker with 12" to spare but it doesn't make them feel safe. People have a right to be comfortable on the trails, them, us, we, etc.

    It's also about trail access. Get 100 people a weekend who disregard others for six months and see how long cycling lasts on that trail. Myself, when I see a person, I go overly slow, click the levers or something non-startling as others do, to let them know, smile and thank them for moving aside.

    I had a XC skier raise hell with me once when I was snowmobiling. Yes, I was on the groomed ski trail with the snowmobile. He was waving his ski poles and threatened me with contacting the resort that groomed the trails, the forest service, the pope, etc. He pointedly wrote down my registration number. Boy was he pissed.

    I tried to explain to him that I was the one who groomed the trails and had just dropped off the groomer and took a wrong turn for a couple hundred yards. There was no reasoning or apologizing with this man and I told him I would go get the groomer and re-do that section of trail. No luck.

    The others in the group were cool about it and said that he would forget before long. The next day my family, who owned the resort, had the skiers over for a chili dinner and the it was as if the incident had never happened.

    Pinguwin

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinguwin
    I tried to explain to him that I was the one who groomed the trails and had just dropped off the groomer and took a wrong turn for a couple hundred yards.
    Wow, that's nuts. It was even your family that owned the resort! That skier really didn't understand where his meal came from, so to speak.

    That just reminded me of back-in-the-day when bikes started riding the Slickrock Trail in Moab. I recall seeing some bikers scowling at and complaining about the motorcycles that were on the trail. They didn't know that it was motorcyclists who developed the trail before them.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat
    Wow, that's nuts. It was even your family that owned the resort! That skier really didn't understand where his meal came from, so to speak.
    Yeah, I got to the part about his family owning the resort and though "99% of the time that guy would have been kicked out of the resort just because." Not saying that's right, but mouth off to the wrong person on accident and watch what happens.

  45. #45
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    Posted by btadlock
    what I don't get.....
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    they way hikers way over-react when they see me.
    I believe there are two reasons this occurs.
    1. Hikers become lost in their own thoughts when on the trails and they are easily startled. I've had this happen to me while riding the trails

    2. They have some reason to over-react. Someone else mentioned past experiences. You may be witnessing a response created by jerks who don't respect others on the trails.

    Don't take it personally. Be friendly and courteous and you will have done your part.
    It is difficult for some people to use the two words "too" and "to" appropriately.

    "I had to go where I went, to get where I am. Any other path would have taken me elsewhere, and I may have missed the joy."

  46. #46
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    To avoid conflict....

    I've never, ever had a conflict with any trail user....on a night ride....

    (Gee, hope I didn't hurt someone's feelings)

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albee
    I've never, ever had a conflict with any trail user....on a night ride....:
    Huh! I have

    One chilly moonless night, as a thin layer of fog wafted in, a voice began calling out, "Heeeyyyy!" "HEEEYYYYYYYY!" not far from the base of a local fire road climb.

    As I pressed on, a pasty looking guy dressed in white running shorts and a tank top merged with my light beam, his forearms held up, shielding his eyes from my lights.

    I mumbled a generic trail greeting, and apologized for blinding him.

    "Well, aren't you dedicated!" commented the lightless trail runner as we passed.

    Does that count?
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jspharmd
    I believe there are two reasons this occurs.
    1. Hikers become lost in their own thoughts when on the trails and they are easily startled. I've had this happen to me while riding the trails

    2. They have some reason to over-react. Someone else mentioned past experiences. You may be witnessing a response created by jerks who don't respect others on the trails.

    Don't take it personally. Be friendly and courteous and you will have done your part.
    I think a third reason may be that, never having ridden a bike off road, they have a hard time comprehending that some one else can... and still be in control. Things always look faster and more out of control to the observer....especially if the've never done it before themselves.

    My wife and I went hiking on this same trail a few months ago and she kept saying, "I can't believe you are able to ride your bike on this. It's so narrow and steep."

    Yeah, I don't take it personally. I'm not too concerned about what he thinks of me personally, just concerned what he thinks about and what actions he might take against bikers in general because of our little encounter.
    Last edited by KRob; 09-20-2007 at 10:01 AM.
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  49. #49
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    valid point

    Quote Originally Posted by KRob
    I'm not too concerned about what he thinks of me personally, just concerned what he thinks about and what actions he make take against bikers in general because of our little encounter.
    indeed... rumor has it that just such an incident is what sparked the anti-MTB policy in boulder, "back in the day" (80's?). a councilman(?) or other official w/ a vendetta after a single bad experience on the trail.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble Maker
    99% of the time that guy would have been kicked out...where his meal came from
    I wasn't fussed about it. First off the skiers were paying pretty good money to be there and I did understand where my meals came from.

    But also I understood his anger. There are hundreds of miles up there where people can snowmobile including a dedicated trail system on which you can drive across the state. So given that, there is a snowmobile on the 20 miles of trail that are dedicated to skiing and it's the only area nearby to ski. They see the grooming destroyed and it was very clear that I was on a groomed and tracked section so I sympathized with that skier.

    The reason I was on the groomed section is that some of non-skiing areas got groomed when I was dragging around the groomer on shortcuts and the like and I thought I was on a shortcut, my bad. Whenever I see a motorized vehicle on the trails, I always nicely talk to the person and if they ignored me, call it in to the forest service.

    But sometimes that is why the people get irritated when the trails are damaged by irresponsibile people, i.e. "You can go on hundreds of miles of fireroads with your atv yet you choose the only walking track in the area."

    So to get along with people, we need to put ourselves in their shoes (boots?) and see how we might view it (and vice-versa). Now if I could only manage to actually apply that big of wisdom in my daily life, I'd be a lot better off.

    Pinguwin

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