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  1. #1
    MattSavage
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    Wydens Wilderness bill...

    What's the status on Wydens Wilderness bill? I was on his website the other day and there are tons of maps of new areas and what not, but I couldn't figure out how we as mtb'ers were affected. I know I've been riding trails in several of these new "wilderness areas" up until the snow hit... I'm not big on political/legal jargon, so the pdf's of the actual bill was not helpful. He had a statement on there how he wanted to improve access for cyclists to these areas, but that was very vague.

    Looking for legit information, not opinions and rants on bikes vs. wilderness...

    Thanks!
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  2. #2
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    link?

    There is talk of a John Day and Maury Mountains land swap that would create new BLM wilderness. I've been told there is existing and historic mountain bike use there.

    ONDA (Oregon Natural Desert Assoc.) is working with Wyden's office but it is "years out there".

    I support "No net loss of trails." Not sure yet where this one leaves us bikers.
    "“May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Edward Abbey

  3. #3
    MattSavage
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    http://wyden.senate.gov/issues/Legis...Mount_Hood.cfm

    I looked around in here, but didn't see much...
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  4. #4
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    That has passed. We basically gave up 127 miles of open, legal trail in exchange for squat.

    Some of us learned the difficult lesson that when Mt. Bikers were invited "to the table" to discuss these proposals, it was merely so that the Wilderness Coalition could say that we were "invited to the table". I believe, as do many of the others who originally worked on that issue, the W.C. never intended to incorporate our wishes to continue access to these trails.

    On the other hand there was a post on here recently that someone went and rode in the Roaring River area (one of the new Wilderness areas) the ranger said I don't care if you do. This new Wilderness area (like many others I suspect) was set up to protect the land and the adequate funding to keep the trails open was not part of the deal. Mt. Bikers were critical for performing the necessary maintenance for these trails but of course we won't maintain anything we can't ride.

    I support Wilderness as much as the next tree hugger but the argument of creating Wilderness for the increased "recreational opportunities" is purely hogwash.

    Mountain biking advocates need to become more proactive if we want to stop losing trails in this way.

    End of rant.
    "“May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Edward Abbey

  5. #5
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    Wyden is just another Politician... Doing deals in secret and hiding his real objectives from those who elect him. Time for change in Washington... Also some TERM Limits.
    Last edited by willem3; 02-12-2010 at 06:36 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Wilderness is certainly a difficult issue for Mountain Bikers. On the one hand, it is the one sure way to "permanently" eliminate future development or resource extraction. On the other, because mountain bikes weren't even heard of around the time of the original Wilderness Act, they have never really been considered for inclusion as allowed activities in wilderness areas (unlike horses). So, bikers really have three options: try to get special exceptions for existing bike trails put into each new wilderness designation (lots of time and money); amend the wilderness act to allow land managers to provide for biking (one time deal, but extreme amounts of money, and low chance of success); or fight every wilderness bill that impacts bike trails (hurts relations with land managers and environmental groups which might otherwise support bikers).

    As for the Mt. Hood bill, it really sucks to have lost Dry Ridge/Grouse Point even if some people are still riding it...

  7. #7
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    willem3,

    If you are asking for people to support COTA, as you do in your signature, you shouldn't alienate at least half your potential supporters by posting such a polarizing opinion. No one cares who you voted or didn't vote for, you should turn off FOX news and go for a ride.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmeldrum26
    willem3,

    If you are asking for people to support COTA, as you do in your signature, you shouldn't alienate at least half your potential supporters by posting such a polarizing opinion. No one cares who you voted or didn't vote for, you should turn off FOX news and go for a ride.
    O brother

  9. #9
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    "The opinions expressed herein do not necessarily represent COTA, it's board of Directors, members, sponsors, heirs, assigns or next of kin."

    No matter who you voted for, can't we mountain bikers all agree that we are opposed to losing single track?
    "“May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Edward Abbey

  10. #10
    MattSavage
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    Did I not specify in my first post that I did NOT want rants or opinions in this thread?

    Thanks Sans Soucie, that kind of solidified my idea of what was going on. I've read elsewhere that not only mtb'ers are losing out. Alot of trails in general are going to wind up being abandoned without volunteer support due to lack of funding and changes in mgmt. plans.

    15 mile creek appears to be a wild and scenic river area, so technically should be open to bikes still, luckily. That area is my favorite to ride on the eastside.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsavage
    15 mile creek appears to be a wild and scenic river area, so technically should be open to bikes still, luckily. That area is my favorite to ride on the eastside.
    Yep, it is still open. This was part of a compromise, that sans soucie seems to feel, did not happen.
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

  12. #12
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    Yeah, you're right, there was a compromise. We mountain bikers were granted the "most popular trails". Fifteen Mile is probably the most primitive of those, so I guess we did get more than "squat" as I previously stated. Sorry.

    Having worked closely on the issue, I like the others, felt betrayed by the end result and the "process". It seemed that this "compromise" was best for everyone but legal mountain biking is seriously curtailed around Mt. Hood. We lost all the most primitive trails.
    "“May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Edward Abbey

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sans soucie
    "The opinions expressed herein do not necessarily represent COTA, it's board of Directors, members, sponsors, heirs, assigns or next of kin."

    No matter who you voted for, can't we mountain bikers all agree that we are opposed to losing single track?
    My apologies. I should not have ranted. The Government is not exactly an easy thing to watch. It is time to RIDE!! And do some trailwork!!
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  14. #14
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well

    Quote Originally Posted by Hack
    O brother
    How is mobbing up and down courtney road shuttling the syncline, pissing off local land owners and users, eventually leading to the closures of these areas any different than setting them aside as wilderness?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsavage
    Did I not specify in my first post that I did NOT want rants or opinions in this thread?

    How about that motorboat ban at Waldo Lake? (Ducks and covers)

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by willem3
    My apologies. I should not have ranted. The Government is not exactly an easy thing to watch. It is time to RIDE!! And do some trailwork!!

    No need to apologize. When has the Government ever been easy to watch? (Let alone participate in)

    Ride, do trailwork - couldn't agree more - clears the cobwebs wonderfully!
    "“May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Edward Abbey

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by freebiker
    How is mobbing up and down courtney road shuttling the syncline, pissing off local land owners and users, eventually leading to the closures of these areas any different than setting them aside as wilderness?

    Very good point. I agree. We should work hard to NOT allow closures on these trails, that would really be a shame.
    "“May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Edward Abbey

  18. #18
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    Dealing with the government is always a battle! Yuck! No matter what part you deal with... The worst part is that all the politicians...no matter what side...are only in it for themselves. Even if they say they are in it for their constituents. I am all for some term limits. This will help greatly. It might be the magic ingredient necessary to make things better.

    For now...Just ride....Enjoy nature... I just came back from some amazing Backcountry Skiing around Todd Lake... Nice conditions! Happy camper here! All the best!
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  19. #19
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    It's a shame

    [quote=sans soucie]Very good point. I agree. We should work hard to NOT allow closures on these trails, that would really be a shame.[/quote
    I spoke with an older long time white salmon(actually lives just north of hospital hill) local the other day on the highline trail, he was out there jogging, he is an avid cross country mtb'er and cross country skier. He seemed rather involved in local trail politics and knows most of the folks that live up and around the hill/sincline. I asked him about his thoughts on the future of syncline in regards to closures and he quoted freeriders as the main sources to the problem. I thought that was interesting. The cheapest and easiest solution I could think of to mitigate/prevent shuttle access and keep the trails open was to just close access from the top on courtney road. Still allow users to climb up trails from the bottom, this would weed out all the shuttlegypsies and keep the trails open. You could still climb up to do the coyote cliffs/agony trail from the bottom and you could still climb up and ride coyote proper from the bottom. The only downside would be losing the ability to do out and backs from the bottom of hospital hill to the bottom of the syncline viia the coyote/agony trails. You could still do out and backs with coyote proper to hospital hill trails via milennium. Just a thought on weeding out the problem. Too bad there isn't a mtb mafia to do this type of work!

  20. #20
    Daniel the Dog
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    Everybody wants some...

    We all want what we want when it comes to trails. For example, I want motorcycle off Post Canyon because they screw up Mitchell and the trails I enjoy. The hikers want me off their trails because it is scary having a mountain biker coming at them and their dogs. The local homeowners just want peace and quiet. The problem is ridable trails are getting harder and harder to find. I have seen Whoop's trail and other awesome trails closed due to logging and wacko politically driven jerk offs like Wyden. I hear the Scappoose trail system is going to be logged. Thanks goodness for new areas like Sandy Ridge opening up. I just wish folks would quit driving up and down roads in Hood River but I'm a trail guy and think shuttling is goofy.

  21. #21
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    I went to an early meeting in Hood River with a couple of Wyden's staff & they seemed to be genuinely interested in accommodating everyone's desires as much as possible, but we all know how politics works. Personally, I'm OK with what they ended up with & think it could have been a lot worse.

    As far as the Wilderness Act goes, my opinion is we all need to hammer our gov't reps with emails, letters & comments at any & all meetings we can attend until they change that one stinking word in the Act that kills us; "mechanical" needs to be changed to "motorized". Plain & simple.

    Hope that doesn't start another firestorm. : )

  22. #22
    MattSavage
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    [QUOTE=gorgedon] Personally, I'm OK with what they ended up with & think it could have been a lot worse.

    ...change that one stinking word in the Act that kills us; "mechanical" needs to be changed to "motorized". Plain & simple.

    Hope that doesn't start another firestorm. : )[/QUOTE

    You're right, it could have been worse... What I want to know is how strongly will they be implementing and enforcing these changes? IMBA still hasn't updated its list of affected trails since 2007. MHNF website notes the changes about new wilderness areas, but hasn't updated its list of trails and allowed usage either. I know it's not reasonable to expect overnight change, but it has been almost 3 years.

    Until signage and available public information is updated, there's gonna be alot of people playing dumb... or just truly ignorant of the situation.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    We all want what we want when it comes to trails. For example, I want motorcycle off Post Canyon because they screw up Mitchell and the trails I enjoy. The hikers want me off their trails because it is scary having a mountain biker coming at them and their dogs. The local homeowners just want peace and quiet. The problem is ridable trails are getting harder and harder to find. I have seen Whoop's trail and other awesome trails closed due to logging and wacko politically driven jerk offs like Wyden. I hear the Scappoose trail system is going to be logged. Thanks goodness for new areas like Sandy Ridge opening up. I just wish folks would quit driving up and down roads in Hood River but I'm a trail guy and think shuttling is goofy.
    There always seems to be someone or organization that wants to take away what you enjoy to do and this applies to many outdoor recreational activities.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gorgedon
    I went to an early meeting in Hood River with a couple of Wyden's staff & they seemed to be genuinely interested in accommodating everyone's desires as much as possible, but we all know how politics works. Personally, I'm OK with what they ended up with & think it could have been a lot worse.

    As far as the Wilderness Act goes, my opinion is we all need to hammer our gov't reps with emails, letters & comments at any & all meetings we can attend until they change that one stinking word in the Act that kills us; "mechanical" needs to be changed to "motorized". Plain & simple.

    Hope that doesn't start another firestorm. : )
    Unfortunately motorized vs mechanical turns us against them and leaves less to fight again.

  25. #25
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    Anybody else notice that Outside Magazine (Mar 2010), in an Editorial, is advocating letting bikes *back* in Wilderness?

    Cool. It's a start, even if it doesn't happen now.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeMan
    Anybody else notice that Outside Magazine (Mar 2010), in an Editorial, is advocating letting bikes *back* in Wilderness?

    Cool. It's a start, even if it doesn't happen now.
    I did not see it.Thank you for the information LeeMan!The simple sound of it is inspirational...well,it did make my evening .More than one of my favorite rides are trapped in there.
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    Your Welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by poppa#1
    I did not see it.Thank you for the information LeeMan!The simple sound of it is inspirational...well,it did make my evening .More than one of my favorite rides are trapped in there.
    You are welcome, my friend.

    Perhaps you can show me some of the (legal, of course) trails out there some day. I've only ridden a few Mt. Hood trails, but I'd better ride the rest while I can! (And I need a change from Tilly, as much as I love riding there.)
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  28. #28
    Daniel the Dog
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    Interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by walangkatapat
    There always seems to be someone or organization that wants to take away what you enjoy to do and this applies to many outdoor recreational activities.
    I agree but what if my outdoor activity is 4-wheeling on the Syncline? Would you support that? We have to look honestly at what makes sense for all recreationalist. Right? For example, guys running up and down Courtney shuttling works for a few but hurts most of us because it annoys some of the home owners on the Syncline. It puts the Syncline at risk.

  29. #29
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    whats the differance betwwen a developer and an enviromentalist?

    I agree but what if my outdoor activity is 4-wheeling on the Syncline? Would you support that? We have to look honestly at what makes sense for all recreationalist. Right? For example, guys running up and down Courtney shuttling works for a few but hurts most of us because it annoys some of the home owners on the Syncline. It puts the Syncline at risk.
    There are arguments for and against 4-wheel activity. But to be annoyed because some one drives in front of your house is indefensible intolerance and to lay that blame on someone who wants to shuttle instead of the home owner is as wrong as the people that cut us out of the wilderness bill.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I agree but what if my outdoor activity is 4-wheeling on the Syncline? Would you support that? We have to look honestly at what makes sense for all recreationalist. Right? For example, guys running up and down Courtney shuttling works for a few but hurts most of us because it annoys some of the home owners on the Syncline. It puts the Syncline at risk.
    Well 4 wheeling is not allowed on the syncline, dont confuse the issue. What is at stake here and what we need to focus on is the reason we will experience a BIG loss of quality trail all together Jay because of
    1, environmental reasons(Mostly on loose loosy and hidden canyon) easily mitigated by only allowing access from below or laterally(ie no shuttling).
    2, because of private property, yes local owners complain(To quote a local land owner): "shuttlers, people who park up here and do last minute road partying and urinating right in sight of my house for my kids to see, they approach local residents houses in the dark seeking help in the dark because they are not self sufficient backcountry users, they need their "BROS" and their marzocchi monster turbo diesel trucks.
    3. You also get first time hikers up and around these areas, that are not used to walking on steep trails, sometimes these folks are elderly. You could see how they would be shocked by the bro brigrade ripping by. This again would easily be resolved by closing access from the top.

    4. Finally, to compound the warranted complaints from other users and local residents, you have the forest circus, who does not have the money or energy to work with local land owners to finalize and maintain existing easments and create closures from the top. Not to mention all the complaints and or lobbying from core/pro/gnar/123 and OHV lobbyist groups.

    As you can tell I am upset and feel quite threatened by these issues. I feel like I am stuck in the middle, I love to ride chunky trail, but I go slow and I stop and chat with other users. I don't know whats going to happen but I pray to the trail gods every day

  31. #31
    Daniel the Dog
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    Okay

    Quote Originally Posted by freebiker
    Well 4 wheeling is not allowed on the syncline, dont confuse the issue. What is at stake here and what we need to focus on is the reason we will experience a BIG loss of quality trail all together Jay because of
    1, environmental reasons(Mostly on loose loosy and hidden canyon) easily mitigated by only allowing access from below or laterally(ie no shuttling).
    2, because of private property, yes local owners complain(To quote a local land owner): "shuttlers, people who park up here and do last minute road partying and urinating right in sight of my house for my kids to see, they approach local residents houses in the dark seeking help in the dark because they are not self sufficient backcountry users, they need their "BROS" and their marzocchi monster turbo diesel trucks.
    3. You also get first time hikers up and around these areas, that are not used to walking on steep trails, sometimes these folks are elderly. You could see how they would be shocked by the bro brigrade ripping by. This again would easily be resolved by closing access from the top.

    4. Finally, to compound the warranted complaints from other users and local residents, you have the forest circus, who does not have the money or energy to work with local land owners to finalize and maintain existing easments and create closures from the top. Not to mention all the complaints and or lobbying from core/pro/gnar/123 and OHV lobbyist groups.

    As you can tell I am upset and feel quite threatened by these issues. I feel like I am stuck in the middle, I love to ride chunky trail, but I go slow and I stop and chat with other users. I don't know whats going to happen but I pray to the trail gods every day

    Why do you feel stuck in the middle?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by freebiker
    2, because of private property, yes local owners complain(To quote a local land owner): "shuttlers, people who park up here and do last minute road partying and urinating right in sight of my house for my kids to see, they approach local residents houses in the dark seeking help in the dark because they are not self sufficient backcountry users, they need their "BROS" and their marzocchi monster turbo diesel trucks.
    Gating Courtney Rd. would be a fine solution, IMO. I do my urinating at the bottom, like all proper trail riders.
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  33. #33
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    ...and what does shuttling Syncline have to do with the Mt. Hood Wilderness? Last I checked, Syncline is in Washington, Mt. Hood is in Oregon, and shuttling is not an issue because you can't drive in a Wilderness Area.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsavage
    ...and what does shuttling Syncline have to do with the Mt. Hood Wilderness? Last I checked, Syncline is in Washington, Mt. Hood is in Oregon, and shuttling is not an issue because you can't drive in a Wilderness Area.
    Good point...speakin' of Washington...did you know that one can drive to the top of Red Mountain.It is in the Indian Heaven Wilderness.There is a lookout at the summit and the porta potty has to be changed every so often.I have been told that the road is utilized during the hunting season too(in case of "emergencies").Mattsavage,excuse me for going OT.I coul not resist...BTW,the "compromise" is a joke when you consider that Knebal and Eight-Mile have been over-logged and Fifteen Mile is a dust trap by the time Jim and the other nice folks clear it.Cheers!
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  35. #35
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    Good points

    The Syncline area debate is full of divergent opinions and thoughts. I have met with folks--due to my job--who live in the Syncline area up. I have also went to the community meetings. The houses and property up there are mostly expensive and those folks want country living. Many don't mind quiet, easy going users but the ones I have talked to get annoyed with noisy folks in their environment. They just want to have peace and quiet. No pissing, talking, driving, etc. They don't give a rat's tail about mountain biking, hiking, hunting, etc. I certainly don't speak for all landowners up there but overall I have heard they want quiet. No drama!

    By the way, the Wilderness Bill didn't close any of my desired rides. I just think it sucks that any trail gets closed. I worry about my favorite hobby getting screwed due to closed trails and logging ;(

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I agree but what if my outdoor activity is 4-wheeling on the Syncline? Would you support that? We have to look honestly at what makes sense for all recreationalist. Right? For example, guys running up and down Courtney shuttling works for a few but hurts most of us because it annoys some of the home owners on the Syncline. It puts the Syncline at risk.
    It's not just about 4 wheeling, its about divide and conquer. Its about environmentalists restricting one area then moving onto another then banning the use all together. I don't know any of the details of whats going on with the trails(besides info from this forum). I don't use the trails you're referring to, but when this clyde finally gets in decent enough shape I want to get out there with my kids, if we still can. I've seen this kind of crap for over two decades following the gun control movement and its no different from the environment movement. We need to stick together or we ultimately lose.

    Locally where I ride the city council sold out to the feds. I did what I could to make sure the councilors understood that the land should stay in control of the locals, not the feds. Unfortunately like most politicians all they cared about was the $800,000. I've already seen survey marks right down the middle of one trail I use, don't know whats going to happen now.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by walangkatapat
    It's not just about 4 wheeling, its about divide and conquer. Its about environmentalists restricting one area then moving onto another then banning the use all together. I don't know any of the details of whats going on with the trails(besides info from this forum). I don't use the trails you're referring to, but when this clyde finally gets in decent enough shape I want to get out there with my kids, if we still can. I've seen this kind of crap for over two decades following the gun control movement and its no different from the environment movement. We need to stick together or we ultimately lose.

    Locally where I ride the city council sold out to the feds. I did what I could to make sure the councilors understood that the land should stay in control of the locals, not the feds. Unfortunately like most politicians all they cared about was the $800,000. I've already seen survey marks right down the middle of one trail I use, don't know whats going to happen now.
    Host a Tea Party!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Muesl
    Host a Tea Party!
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppa#1
    Good point...speakin' of Washington...did you know that one can drive to the top of Red Mountain.It is in the Indian Heaven Wilderness.There is a lookout at the summit and the porta potty has to be changed every so often.I have been told that the road is utilized during the hunting season too(in case of "emergencies").Mattsavage,excuse me for going OT.I coul not resist...BTW,the "compromise" is a joke when you consider that Knebal and Eight-Mile have been over-logged and Fifteen Mile is a dust trap by the time Jim and the other nice folks clear it.Cheers!

    Yes, the summit and the lookout is just inside the wilderness area boundary, the road which comes in from the south side of the mountain is mainly outside. Similar situation for Badger Lake, there's an "easement" of sorts for the road that cuts straight through the Wilderness Area and allows access to the lake by vehicle which makes this new Wilderness bill all the more hypocritical. If they want these areas to be "wilderness" then cut out the vehicular traffic and keep the rednecks from wheeling around out there. Badger Lake is a shithole... I tried to camp there awhile back but there was partying going on all night and the entire area was trashed. Gate that road off make people hike in. Leave the white trash down at Timothy and Trillium.

    Can you drive to Flag Point as well? It has a similar boundary drafted around the road. I've never ventured up there.
    "I wrote a hit play! What have you ever done?!"

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  40. #40
    Daniel the Dog
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    Have they destroyed the trails?

    If not night ride on the closed trails at night. Trail W in PDX is awesome--at night. I wasn't advocating a 4-wheeler on the Syncline just that there are limits to every recreational area.

  41. #41
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    Why

    Why do I feel stuck in the middle
    I feel stuck in the middle, because as a xc mtb'er, I have to stand back and watch our industry get polluted by the infection of freeriding and downhilling's lame ass image and I watch our public lands/backcountry become threatened and or closed to mtb because of of overuse/conflict. I am sick of being associated with them. They need to come to terms with what their affects are and confine their activities to dedicated areas like post canyon, whistler, black rock, etc.

    Do you see downhill skiers up at the local xc resort? No
    Do you see uphill traffic allowed during business hours at you local dh ski resort. No.
    Downhill oriented sports like freeriding and DH skiing need dedicated areas to conduct their activities.

    With the syncline, all that needs to be done is put a coded gate at the bottom of courtney rd and or close the trails from the top. This will weed out the majority of the problem. One of the main allure's of dh mtb'ing is the fun factor, well, when you take away the free lift uphill, allot of these grande cahones adrenaline freeks with no cardiovascular endurance/purist agendas will stay at home and drink their monsters energy drinks and watch nascar.

    I think if you have to climb for your descents, you'll see a huge decrease in impacts/conflicts. Certainly, anyone who primarily does dh/fr and shuttles, is welcome to come climb with us(xc riders) up the hill. As heroes would.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by freebiker
    Why do I feel stuck in the middle
    I feel stuck in the middle, because as a xc mtb'er, I have to stand back and watch our industry get polluted by the infection of freeriding and downhilling's lame ass image and I watch our public lands/backcountry become threatened and or closed to mtb because of of overuse/conflict. I am sick of being associated with them. They need to come to terms with what their affects are and confine their activities to dedicated areas like post canyon, whistler, black rock, etc.

    Do you see downhill skiers up at the local xc resort? No
    Do you see uphill traffic allowed during business hours at you local dh ski resort. No.
    Downhill oriented sports like freeriding and DH skiing need dedicated areas to conduct their activities.

    With the syncline, all that needs to be done is put a coded gate at the bottom of courtney rd and or close the trails from the top. This will weed out the majority of the problem. One of the main allure's of dh mtb'ing is the fun factor, well, when you take away the free lift uphill, allot of these grande cahones adrenaline freeks with no cardiovascular endurance/purist agendas will stay at home and drink their monsters energy drinks and watch nascar.

    I think if you have to climb for your descents, you'll see a huge decrease in impacts/conflicts. Certainly, anyone who primarily does dh/fr and shuttles, is welcome to come climb with us(xc riders) up the hill. As heroes would.
    Why all the hate? Did a DHer give you a wedgie or something?
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  43. #43
    MattSavage
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    Quote Originally Posted by freebiker
    Why do I feel stuck in the middle
    I feel stuck in the middle, because as a xc mtb'er, I have to stand back and watch our industry get polluted by the infection of freeriding and downhilling's lame ass image and I watch our public lands/backcountry become threatened and or closed to mtb because of of overuse/conflict. I am sick of being associated with them. They need to come to terms with what their affects are and confine their activities to dedicated areas like post canyon, whistler, black rock, etc.

    Do you see downhill skiers up at the local xc resort? No
    Do you see uphill traffic allowed during business hours at you local dh ski resort. No.
    Downhill oriented sports like freeriding and DH skiing need dedicated areas to conduct their activities.

    With the syncline, all that needs to be done is put a coded gate at the bottom of courtney rd and or close the trails from the top. This will weed out the majority of the problem. One of the main allure's of dh mtb'ing is the fun factor, well, when you take away the free lift uphill, allot of these grande cahones adrenaline freeks with no cardiovascular endurance/purist agendas will stay at home and drink their monsters energy drinks and watch nascar.

    I think if you have to climb for your descents, you'll see a huge decrease in impacts/conflicts. Certainly, anyone who primarily does dh/fr and shuttles, is welcome to come climb with us(xc riders) up the hill. As heroes would.
    Wow... that's about the lamest, most ignorant, off topic rant I've read in awhile...
    "I wrote a hit play! What have you ever done?!"

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  44. #44
    Daniel the Dog
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    Classic 'it ain't me but them' thinking

    Quote Originally Posted by mattsavage
    Wow... that's about the lamest, most ignorant, off topic rant I've read in awhile...
    Those bad bikers do the damage not me. We all annoy the folks on Courtney Road. They bought up there to have peace and quiet and they don't want us in their space. I have worked in that Klickitat County and it isn't some touchy feely recreational place where windsurfers, mountain bikers, and other recreationalist types are not welcomed with open arms. I was meeting with a professional who said, "Those dam* windsurfers and their stupid baggy shorts acting like they are 20 again are down right pathetic." This was a professional not some redneck hick. The county is nicknamed Cowboy County. HR is recreational headquarters not Courtney Road. I think the area need some kind of user fee to put up signs and patrol the area to keep folks acting like humans.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsavage
    Wow... that's about the lamest, most ignorant, off topic rant I've read in awhile...
    That's because he's a tool.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsavage
    Wow... that's about the lamest, most ignorant, off topic rant I've read in awhile...
    I thought it was amusingly written and true, for the most part.
    "Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live."
    -- Mark Twain

  47. #47
    MattSavage
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jam esp
    I thought it was amusingly written and true, for the most part.

    Quote one part that is factual.
    "I wrote a hit play! What have you ever done?!"

    Have Ashtray, Will Travel....

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hack
    That's because he's a tool.
    Careful Hack. You might scare somebody.
    Only two infinite things exist: the universe and stupidity. And, I am unsure of the universe
    - Albert Einstein

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsavage
    Quote one part that is factual.
    Hard to argue with "earnin' your turn".I could not resist responding when I consider the ridiculous amount of brake bumps on Dog River due to the overuse that would not occur if everyone climbed it before they "road" down it on a 40 pound bike.Flame on...good luck enjoying no future at Syncline.Point about Dog River is this...if you are able to ride up it there is a strong chance that your descending skills will not include draggin' your brakes when you find that you may be over your range of control.Enjoy! And don't forget to speed up.
    Master of Laundry...Lord of Cleaning!

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppa#1
    Hard to argue with "earnin' your turn".I could not resist responding when I consider the ridiculous amount of brake bumps on Dog River due to the overuse that would not occur if everyone climbed it before they "road" down it on a 40 pound bike.Flame on...good luck enjoying no future at Syncline.Point about Dog River is this...if you are able to ride up it there is a strong chance that your descending skills will not include draggin' your brakes when you find that you may be over your range of control.Enjoy! And don't forget to speed up.
    Braking bumps are most oftenly caused by XC or beginner/novice riders who aren't comfortable riding at speed going down and frantically rely on their brakes too much to keep their speed at bay. DH or other DH speed seeking riders, typically just allow their suspension to float or carry themselves over the bumps not to disrupt their speed and flow on the descent.
    Last edited by jgusta; 03-11-2010 at 02:26 PM.
    Ride On!

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