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  1. #1
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    What tires for the 12 Mile super D?

    I'm trying to get my game plan together for this race and don't know what tire setup is best for this course. My Downiville setup is a 2.5 Michellin DH 16 up front, and a 2.2 DH 24 out back but I'm not sure if this is overkill for this course and that maybe something a bit lighter with a lower rolling resistance would be better. The last time I raced a gravity event in Oregon was ten years ago at Mt Hood Ski Bowl, and I was using IRC Missles.
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  2. #2
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    Better grab that crystal ball! Who knows what conditions will be up there in a month...

    All kidding aside, the conditions will vary a great deal top to bottom... There may even be some snow to contend with. I love the tires you're on right now, but there's a few pedally sections and a climb where the Michelin tread compound will feel really sluggish. Your combination will save you near the bottom if it's dry... The soil is basicly decomposed granite.

    I'm still trying to figure out my set-up...
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  3. #3
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    You people with your options. Mud, snow, silt, dust, dirt, rocks, doesn't matter to me since I only got the one set of tires
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by sullie
    You people with your options. Mud, snow, silt, dust, dirt, rocks, doesn't matter to me since I only got the one set of tires
    Your not alone

    Vader... bird dog ??? I have Pointers check signature....

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by sullie
    You people with your options. Mud, snow, silt, dust, dirt, rocks, doesn't matter to me since I only got the one set of tires
    Ya gotta have options in life...
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Cliffy
    Ya gotta have options in life...
    UC,

    I'm planning on using a WTB 2.5 MX Prowler front (my fav fast, big tire) on the Super D and can't decide whether a WTB 2.35 SS Prowler (fast, but fairly smaller), 2.4 Big Betty (much bigger and slower) or 2.5 Conti Diesel (kind of in between, but hard rubber and weakish sidewalls) on my AM/FR bike. Any suggestions? I will be rolling tubeless and all the above have been good for that so far. I am currently on a 2.4 BB rear, but is a little slower than anticipated and taller than my front tire, not my ideal, but I didn't like the BB up front as much as the MX, especially for speed and cornering. This will be my first Super D and not planning on going too aggro or trying to place, just doing it for fun and to ride some good trails since I haven't ridden anything in Ashland in almost 10yrs.

    Also, you got anymore Ti springs on hand in a 7.5 x 2.0, 650# for a DHX?

    Thanks.

    JG
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  7. #7
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    You want to run fast rolling, semi light tires, as there is a LOT of pedaling & sprinting on this course, especially if you want to do good. The last two years I ran Maxxis High Roller 2.35 LUST tubeless front & Maxxis Crossmark 2.1 LUST tubeless in the rear, which are the same tires / set-up I always run for trail riding. I would NOT recommend DH tires & especially not DH tubes for this race, as it is no way near the terrain Downieville has, mostly fast, rolling singletrack, a couple super fast fireroads & of course, you run the DH course as pasrt of the super-d......then there is the climb

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta
    UC,

    I'm planning on using a WTB 2.5 MX Prowler front (my fav fast, big tire) on the Super D and can't decide whether a WTB 2.35 SS Prowler (fast, but fairly smaller), 2.4 Big Betty (much bigger and slower) or 2.5 Conti Diesel (kind of in between, but hard rubber and weakish sidewalls) on my AM/FR bike. Any suggestions? I will be rolling tubeless and all the above have been good for that so far. I am currently on a 2.4 BB rear, but is a little slower than anticipated and taller than my front tire, not my ideal, but I didn't like the BB up front as much as the MX, especially for speed and cornering. This will be my first Super D and not planning on going too aggro or trying to place, just doing it for fun and to ride some good trails since I haven't ridden anything in Ashland in almost 10yrs.

    Also, you got anymore Ti springs on hand in a 7.5 x 2.0, 650# for a DHX?

    Thanks.

    JG
    I don't have time on any of those tires, but my friend Wes (Cascade Mtb. Adventures) spent a lot of time on the 2.3 Prowlers last year and constantly raved about them... Most of the tires I ride are of the DH variety, (2.5 UST Minion/Highroller) but I have a set of 2.35 UST Nevegals I'm probably gonna run... Nice to hear you like the Big Bettys as they have a UST version of this tire I've been thinking about trying...

    I don't have any ti springs... Where did you see I had some?
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by inkpad
    You want to run fast rolling, semi light tires, as there is a LOT of pedaling & sprinting on this course, especially if you want to do good. The last two years I ran Maxxis High Roller 2.35 LUST tubeless front & Maxxis Crossmark 2.1 LUST tubeless in the rear, which are the same tires / set-up I always run for trail riding. I would NOT recommend DH tires & especially not DH tubes for this race, as it is no way near the terrain Downieville has, mostly fast, rolling singletrack, a couple super fast fireroads & of course, you run the DH course as pasrt of the super-d......then there is the climb
    Thanks for the suggestions. So where on the 12mile course are the climbs? I was hoping they were only on the FR's and some rollers on the trail. How long is the longest climb would you say?

    I am still nursing this "nappy" flu/cold thing I got going on in Sunriver, hoping to finally get out tomorrow and Tues before I leave back to PDX for some trail riding, thinking some Whoops/Storm King/COD/Lair action maybe tommorow?

    Have fun ripping Larison Rock if you go, no skidding of course

    JG
    Ride On!

  10. #10
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    Oh, I lost a bid on a Ti spring I believe you had for sale on "flea-bay" last time I was visiting Sunriver/Bend for some riding and vacationing last late summer/early fall. I've been trying to find a spring in that size you sold for sometime now without dumping a few hundred bones on a new one and just thought I would take a stab at asking if you had any others or know someone who does?

    Thanks

    JG
    Ride On!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta
    Thanks for the suggestions. So where on the 12mile course are the climbs? I was hoping they were only on the FR's and some rollers on the trail. How long is the longest climb would you say?


    JG
    The only real climb starts about 2 miles down the trail at the Bull Gap trailhead. It's a 600ft climb on singletrack and it's a real bastard, I always ended up walking about 2/3 of it and that's when I was in shape.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sullie
    The only real climb starts about 2 miles down the trail at the Bull Gap trailhead. It's a 600ft climb on singletrack and it's a real bastard, I always ended up walking about 2/3 of it and that's when I was in shape.
    Yup. You forgot to mention the flat sections after that climb. Those aren't tough, but you're so winded by the climb that they seem slowwww...

    Jgusta: I did sell a 650 X 2.25... That was a while ago though. I moved my CCDB from a Rocky Mtn Switch to a Bottlerocket and had to ditch the spring since it was way too stiff. I picked up a 450 on "flea-bay" soon after... The 450 may be up for grabs soon, but ya never know. I change bikes like underwear.
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Cliffy
    Yup. You forgot to mention the flat sections after that climb. Those aren't tough, but you're so winded by the climb that they seem slowwww...

    Jgusta: I did sell a 650 X 2.25... That was a while ago though. I moved my CCDB from a Rocky Mtn Switch to a Bottlerocket and had to ditch the spring since it was way too stiff. I picked up a 450 on "flea-bay" soon after... The 450 may be up for grabs soon, but ya never know. I change bikes like underwear.
    I ordered a 2.3 High Roller UST and a 2.1 Crossmark UST. They should be here tomorrow so we'll see how they do. I'm near Big Bear in California and most of the conditions here are a combination of snowmelt, rocks, DG, moondust and loam.

    If you're going to drop down in spring weight on the CCDB, make sure you use a Cane Creek Ti spring for anything below 450. I know from experience that a Progressive Ti spring will rub the shock body.
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    Ask yourself

    What would Weir do? (Maybe I should make a bracelet!) I think he ran a 2.5 Weirwolf Race in the front. That's the one with the light casing. He paired it with a 2.4 Mutano in the rear. Of course I could be wrong on what he runs because he tends to test and retest setups, but that's what I remember.
    I like to start out slow and then back it off a notch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vader
    I ordered a 2.3 High Roller UST and a 2.1 Crossmark UST. They should be here tomorrow so we'll see how they do. I'm near Big Bear in California and most of the conditions here are a combination of snowmelt, rocks, DG, moondust and loam.

    If you're going to drop down in spring weight on the CCDB, make sure you use a Cane Creek Ti spring for anything below 450. I know from experience that a Progressive Ti spring will rub the shock body.
    Can't beat the Highrollers...

    Funny you say that... I am currently running a 450 Progressive with no rubbing. I will have to go up in spring rate for the bike I'm thinking of getting anyway. I am going to attempt to bolt the CCDB in a Reign X. I'm cautiously optimistic, but I don't think it's going to work. I may be selling the shock anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by unoveloce
    What would Weir do? (Maybe I should make a bracelet!) I think he ran a 2.5 Weirwolf Race in the front. That's the one with the light casing. He paired it with a 2.4 Mutano in the rear. Of course I could be wrong on what he runs because he tends to test and retest setups, but that's what I remember.
    I believe Weir rolls on the heavy dual-ply 2.5 Weirwolf FR up front and the 2.55 Weirwolf LT Race (low tread and much lighter tire) out back, on the D-ville DH course. He states that he likes the heavier duty tire up front for when he bashes into the rock on the tech'ed out sections on D-ville at speed. For Ashland Super D, I bet he uses a whole different set-up from what is sounds like, probably the 2.55 Weirwolf LT front and rear or 2.3 Weirwolf Race out back?

    So, does anyone know roughly how long that 600' climb is on Bull Gap that I will be pushing my 36 lb ride and 210 lb body up?

    Thanks,

    JG
    Ride On!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta

    So, does anyone know roughly how long that 600' climb is on Bull Gap that I will be pushing my 36 lb ride and 210 lb body up?

    Thanks,

    JG
    Not sure about the distance but I timed it last year at about 10-15 minutes with a mix of riding and brisk walking. That climb is why I won't be wearing my full face helmet or leg guards and only be taking as much water as I need to get to the top. Basically if you're not getting ready to puke by the time you get to the top, you didn't go fast enough
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  18. #18
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    when and were is this race
    Save a tree & wipe your butt with an owl.
    Thank your local Sierra Club.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JUNGLEKID5
    when and were is this race
    http://www.breakaway-events.net/
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sullie
    Not sure about the distance but I timed it last year at about 10-15 minutes with a mix of riding and brisk walking. That climb is why I won't be wearing my full face helmet or leg guards and only be taking as much water as I need to get to the top. Basically if you're not getting ready to puke by the time you get to the top, you didn't go fast enough
    Thanks Sullie, this gives me a much better idea of when I will have to experience the "grunt" on the course. This is only my second mtb race ever, the first one being a mtb duathlon in Montana several years ago that I didn't enjoy as much as I would hope, primarily due to not knowing where the climbs were and fighting the "bonk" throughout. The Super D sounds a like a great event and looking to having fun with it.

    JG
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta
    Thanks Sullie, this gives me a much better idea of when I will have to experience the "grunt" on the course. This is only my second mtb race ever, the first one being a mtb duathlon in Montana several years ago that I didn't enjoy as much as I would hope, primarily due to not knowing where the climbs were and fighting the "bonk" throughout. The Super D sounds a like a great event and looking to having fun with it.

    JG
    Here's a trail map with a scale. The climb looks like two miles, give or take a tenth.


    http://www.ashland.or.us/Files/Ashla...hed_Trails.pdf
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  22. #22
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    I wish I had input on tire choice, but I'm only bringing more questions.

    1. Is this a good race for a first SuperD race? I don't care about finish times or being truly competitive for my first race, but I just want to make sure I can finish the damn thing without having to use a catheter for the rest of my life. In other words, how tech is it?

    2. How much is registration? I couldn't find it on the site and didn't want to fill out the reg form just to see how much it costs to register.

    Now back to your regularly scheduled tire discussion. (By the way, would 2.5" and 2.3 Neves work ok? )
    Bend, Oregon. Proof you don't have to die to get to heaven.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta
    Thanks Sullie, this gives me a much better idea of when I will have to experience the "grunt" on the course. This is only my second mtb race ever, the first one being a mtb duathlon in Montana several years ago that I didn't enjoy as much as I would hope, primarily due to not knowing where the climbs were and fighting the "bonk" throughout. The Super D sounds a like a great event and looking to having fun with it.

    JG
    If you are a fairly strong climber you can do the climb in the middle ring. I ran a single 36 tooth last year & did it, but it was wicked painful & I was beat at the top of the climb, but probably made up a couple minutes by riding it out. I would say it is about a 3/4 mile or so climb. Once you are at the top it is somewhat of a rolling terrain at first, then the speed comes ; )

    BTW, the Caterpillar section will really kick your a$$, as it is mostly a rolling climb for about 200 yards towards the end of the race & really works ya!

    I love this race

  24. #24
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    Question, is a Haro X-7 to big for this as far as just participating. I'm not looking to compete really just have some fun. i forgot I took off the front drailer maybe I should just set a 1 hr goal since I'm down to 9 sp.
    Or ride a Haro Escape built for DJ

    Check out the times...
    the kids beat the older guys.....

    RACE # Place NAME TEAM CATEGORY FINISH TIME
    53 1 Nathan Byrom EXPERT JUNIOR MEN 13-18 00:39:19.50

    Expert Men 19-29
    RACE # Place NAME TEAM CATEGORY FINISH TIME
    1 1 Erich Weidenkeller Chain Gang Bike Shop EXPERT MEN 19-29 00:40:24.47
    64

  25. #25
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    It's a great race and is only as difficult/technical as you make it. It's the longest super d in Oregon and the second longest in the country. Registration is a little up there at $50, goes up to $55 if you register after June 6 I think. And you have to register online, there is no registration at the event itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmallAirAndy
    I wish I had input on tire choice, but I'm only bringing more questions.

    1. Is this a good race for a first SuperD race? I don't care about finish times or being truly competitive for my first race, but I just want to make sure I can finish the damn thing without having to use a catheter for the rest of my life. In other words, how tech is it?

    2. How much is registration? I couldn't find it on the site and didn't want to fill out the reg form just to see how much it costs to register.

    Now back to your regularly scheduled tire discussion. (By the way, would 2.5" and 2.3 Neves work ok? )
    www.kdrv.com to find coverage on local races and events

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascaderider9
    Question, is a Haro X-7 to big for this as far as just participating. I'm not looking to compete really just have some fun. i forgot I took off the front drailer maybe I should just set a 1 hr goal since I'm down to 9 sp.
    Or ride a Haro Escape built for DJ

    Check out the times...
    the kids beat the older guys.....

    RACE # Place NAME TEAM CATEGORY FINISH TIME
    53 1 Nathan Byrom EXPERT JUNIOR MEN 13-18 00:39:19.50

    Expert Men 19-29
    RACE # Place NAME TEAM CATEGORY FINISH TIME
    1 1 Erich Weidenkeller Chain Gang Bike Shop EXPERT MEN 19-29 00:40:24.47
    64
    I'd say an X7 would do just fine as it will let you open it up more than some of the lighter bikes on the fireroad and other speed sections. I mean my teammate won his sport class last year on a Specialized Big Hit 2 and he's racing the same bike this year in expert. Another friend will be running a Santa Cruz Bullit so bigger bikes can succeed mainly because there is so much downhill involved.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmallAirAndy
    I wish I had input on tire choice, but I'm only bringing more questions.

    1. Is this a good race for a first SuperD race? I don't care about finish times or being truly competitive for my first race, but I just want to make sure I can finish the damn thing without having to use a catheter for the rest of my life. In other words, how tech is it?

    2. How much is registration? I couldn't find it on the site and didn't want to fill out the reg form just to see how much it costs to register.

    Now back to your regularly scheduled tire discussion. (By the way, would 2.5" and 2.3 Neves work ok? )
    SMA,

    You can find the registration and race details here; www.breakaway-events.net.

    If I go, I am planning on running 2.5 tires front/rear or 2.5 front and 2.3 rear at the very least on the RFX, probably 2.5 WTB MX Prowler and 2.3 SS Prowler for speed and reliablity. Sounds like guys like running the Neve's down there, probably for their versatility and I would say if you haven't had any problems with Kenda tires and like the Neve's then go for it. I on the other hand, stay clear of Kenda rubber due to poor longevitiy and failure in certain applications and conditions from what I have experienced in the past.

    JG
    Ride On!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta
    Sounds like guys like running the Neve's down there, probably for their versatility and I would say if you haven't had any problems with Kenda tires and like the Neve's then go for it. I on the other hand, stay clear of Kenda rubber due to poor longevitiy and failure in certain applications and conditions from what I have experienced in the past.

    JG
    I'm only running Nevegals because I have UST 2.35 models. I've run the standard ones before; welcolm to pinch-flat-city.. Population: me.

    Also, these are the best Kenda tire I've owned, but 10 minutes after mounting them, I jumped a short set of stairs and tore a hole in one. (Anybody ever see Stans spraying out of a tire at 40psi?) I'm going to see how long these last, but whatever Kenda uses for the thread in their casing is junk... Make sure your pressure is 40+ psi.
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta
    SMA,

    You can find the registration and race details here; www.breakaway-events.net.

    If I go, I am planning on running 2.5 tires front/rear or 2.5 front and 2.3 rear at the very least on the RFX, probably 2.5 WTB MX Prowler and 2.3 SS Prowler for speed and reliablity. Sounds like guys like running the Neve's down there, probably for their versatility and I would say if you haven't had any problems with Kenda tires and like the Neve's then go for it. I on the other hand, stay clear of Kenda rubber due to poor longevitiy and failure in certain applications and conditions from what I have experienced in the past.

    JG
    Really? Reviews in the press (take 'em for what they're worth, I guess) are always great--the Neves always seem to get rave reviews. I'm in the market for new tires anyhow. Currently I have 2.5" and 2.35" UST Hi Rollers (though the rear tire has a tube now; the casing slipped off the rim in a banked turn...good times), but they're nearing the rubber reaper. All the well, I suppose, since the High Rollers don't seem to be the best tires for PNW riding. Do you run the Prowler combo all the time? Or are they usually reserved for racing? Looking to upgrade and maybe even lighten the 6pack a bit.
    Bend, Oregon. Proof you don't have to die to get to heaven.

  30. #30
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    This is true, Catepillar was a little annoying after the climb from the park a couple of weekends ago for the XC race.

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    SMA,

    Over the past year, I have been mostly running a 2.5 MX Prowler front (about 960g's) and 2.35 XT Prowler (860g's and wore out in 1.5mths) then back to 2.5 Cont Diesel (more like a 2.4) which is a great high-volumed, light for what it is tire at 760g's, but not the best in the mud due to hard rubber and now currently on a Schwalbe 2.4 Big Betty (more like a 2.5) with huge casing at about 930g's which is great in the rough and loose, but a little slow on the hard pack and on the climbs. Thought the ideal compromise would be running the 2.35 Prowler SS rear with MX 2.5 front. I am planning on picking up the SS tomorrow from Universal to see how it does before the race, it may feel a little small though, especially when going from a bigger rear tire to smaller, I usually end up not liking it as much. But should be faster with just as or much more grip.

    JG
    Ride On!

  32. #32
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    I'm driving down from portland, this will be my first super D. Going to ride it on my 5 spot.
    I just got a fat albert ust for the front, that tire is sweet! i have a stock of new to lightly used wtb weirwolfs 2.1 ust I picked up at a 2nd hand store for next to nothing, so i am running one of those in the back. think those roll fast enough, i know the fat albert is not the fastest, but i like its grip.

    does anyone have a elevation/distance profile of this nasty ashland climb, i usually never use my granny gear, will i have to on this one?

  33. #33
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by inkpad
    If you are a fairly strong climber you can do the climb in the middle ring. I ran a single 36 tooth last year & did it, but it was wicked painful & I was beat at the top of the climb, but probably made up a couple minutes by riding it out. I would say it is about a 3/4 mile or so climb. Once you are at the top it is somewhat of a rolling terrain at first, then the speed comes ; )

    BTW, the Caterpillar section will really kick your a$$, as it is mostly a rolling climb for about 200 yards towards the end of the race & really works ya!

    I love this race
    Hey Inkpad, a couple of us (still trying to convice Tani) are comming up from O.C. How's the climb compare to some of the stuff down here?

    Oaks - Three B's?
    Aliso - Medows?
    Or freak'n Holy Jim or San Juan?

    I'm planning on bringing both bikes, my Kona Dawg and my Stinky. We'll be riding the course a couple of times on Saturday, so I may ride it on each bike and see what works.
    Pain Is Weakness Leaving The Body

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by crash maxwell
    Hey Inkpad, a couple of us (still trying to convice Tani) are comming up from O.C. How's the climb compare to some of the stuff down here?

    Oaks - Three B's?
    Aliso - Medows?
    Or freak'n Holy Jim or San Juan?

    I'm planning on bringing both bikes, my Kona Dawg and my Stinky. We'll be riding the course a couple of times on Saturday, so I may ride it on each bike and see what works.
    Hey there!

    The climb is a middle ring for you OC guys, I did it in a 36 ring-32 rear last year on my Nomad, wasn't easy, but it is a race after all ; ) It is about 8-10 minutes if I had to guess, all one grade it seems, I would probably rate it closest to climbing Willow (the fireroad up LW) without the really steep beginning, probably the same length & distance it would seem, but a bit steeper grade? The climb is not tech at all, just smooth singletrack.

    PM me & i'll give you my info in case you come down. I believe we are going as well, bringing the little guy with us. Not sure if the gal is gonna race, but she will do a run or two, oh yes

    Cheers,
    Stu

  35. #35
    Living Ghetto Fabulous!
    Reputation: Uncle Cliffy's Avatar
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    Hey guys, I was up there today. I went on a clearing/trailwork trip with Bill from A.M.V. and a few other people so the course is mostly clear.

    We hiked upper Bull Gap though, and as Sullie found out recently, there's A LOT of snow. Tita was with us (she puts on the race) and she is going to try and get a Bobcat up there the end of this week as there's some pretty serious snow drifts at the begining of the race. We actually hiked from the bottom and stopped a couple miles from the start...

    I brought my bike and after working, I rode the course from the bottom of upper Bull Gap... I had shoveled snow for about 2-3 hours so I was warmed up, but that climb killed me right out of the gate. I pushed half of it at least and that was on my hardtail. I am extremely out of shape, so the race should be a hoot for me.

    All the singletrack I was on is clear and quick... The UST Nevegals felt a bit washy in the front, so I'm thinking I may sipe the knobs a bit. (It was wet conditions, but the soil is sandy and gets really grippy wet. )
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  36. #36
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    Yeah it sure isn't like last year, I think by this time last year we'd been riding from the top for about a month without any snow. I think I'll be in Ashland next weekend so I'll be able to lend a hand for anything needing attention.

    -evan
    www.kdrv.com to find coverage on local races and events

  37. #37
    I AM PEDALING!
    Reputation: crash maxwell's Avatar
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    Good job!

    Thanks for the update Cliffy!

    As for tires, I've been running Shwalbe 2.35 Fat Alberts front and rear for my last couple of rides. I'm finding that they don't roll very well, or hook up too well down here on hardpack and sandstone.
    So I picked up a pair of 2.30 Specailized Chunders. They look like they'll roll a bit faster, and hopefully the bigger knobs will bite in better.

    I got to check out a short video from the Spring Thaw DH. This look's like it's gonna be a GREAT time!
    Pain Is Weakness Leaving The Body

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