View Poll Results: Which statement is best for a trail head sign?

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  • Downhill Riders stop for others

    6 5.08%
  • Downhill Riders yield for others

    52 44.07%
  • Uphill Riders have the Right Of Way

    60 50.85%
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  1. #1
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    Trail Etiquette Poll

    COTA is working on the best way to state "right of way". All three options say uphill has the right of way, but which would be best on a trail head sign?

    We have devised a few other messages, so this poll is really seeking only info on your opinion about which one of these three options BEST states the guideline.

    Thanks for your participation.
    "“May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Edward Abbey

  2. #2
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    I started to click option #3 -- "Uphill Riders have the Right Of Way" but then I thought about it. Shouldn't it be "Uphill Traffic has the Right Of Way"?

    I mean, what about hikers? Equestrians?

    So I didn't vote.

    In fact, it got me to thinking. If we're talking about a mountain-bike-exclusive trail network, I'd seriously consider changing the rule for that... to downhill has right of way. Let me make it clear that for downhill right of way I'm ONLY talking about a trail network that is open EXCLUSIVELY to mountain bikes -- ZERO other users.

    My comments here might open a can of worms. Just for the record I'm a staunch supporter of uphill right of way on multi-user trail systems. That's why the word "rider" in option #3 hit me oddly.

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  3. #3
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    Sparty. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

    I also think there is a bit of irony in the title "trail etiquette poll" and the rule that one party has the right of way. If everyone exercised a bit of etiquette, there would be absolutely no need for a right of way rule. When I am out on the trail, I try to let the situation dictate my response. I try to be prepared to pull over for others in every situation, whether its uphill, downhill, or flat. If I'm grinding up a sweet downhill section, I almost always try to pull out of the trail to let downhill riders keep the fun up. When I'm going down and run into folks going up, I slow down and pull off to where I can stop to let them by. If they volunteer to move out of the way and tell me to keep going, I thank them and keep on. If they keep going, I let them through.

    Moral of the story, be nice to people and use some etiquette and everyone usually stays happy. Unfortunately, it really seems to be the folks that either completely ignore the rule (downhill riders not stopping and forcing uphill riders out of the way) or rigidly adhere to it with no exceptions. Classic example of this is the guy that gives you a dirty look like you didn't get far enough out of the way while he climbed by only to see him stop for a break 10 feet up the trail.

    Sooo, back to the poll, if I had a choice, I'd do an option 4: Common courtesy is the best way to ride. Otherwise, uphill has the right of way. Since that's not available as an option, I voted for 2 because provides a standard of conduct that downhill riders must observe rather than giving "rights" to uphill riders.

  4. #4
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    Thorkild, I know that you have ridden Falls Creek in SW WA. I cannot imagine getting off the bike on that early climb for some dude that most likely shuttled it. Even if said rider did climb up that should only make him more aware of the situation. Overall this topic is a slippery slope. Each situation is different and I most certainly agree in regards to common courtesy be the starting place for most decisions. BTW, this is kinda funny considering that there is no climbing in Bend. Sparty, I don't care for horsey types. I don't cause any trouble with them, but I don't consider them since they should be riding in the Wilderness anyway. I must mention again that it should depend on the situation. If I had to choose what is available it would be number three. For the shuttle types that I have repeatedly offended... sorry.
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  5. #5
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    I try to climb the road on Falls Creek to avoid conflicts and because I prefer loops. I also rarely ride it because I usually run into hikers through the best parts and there other less crowded places to ride. Same goes for coming down Ape Canyon--sweet trail, but not worth the stop and start. If I ran into you on Falls Creek, I'd be ready to stop regardless of which direction you were headed and I'd say hello and have a nice ride. I'm only snarky when someone rudely insists on their uphill right of way and then stops for a break after they get by me.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by thorkild View Post
    I try to climb the road on Falls Creek to avoid conflicts and because I prefer loops. I also rarely ride it because I usually run into hikers through the best parts and there other less crowded places to ride. Same goes for coming down Ape Canyon--sweet trail, but not worth the stop and start. If I ran into you on Falls Creek, I'd be ready to stop regardless of which direction you were headed and I'd say hello and have a nice ride. I'm only snarky when someone rudely insists on their uphill right of way and then stops for a break after they get by me.
    I would chat with you anytime. As far as Ape I am confused due to my desire to always complete it with Smith Creek... thus, a loop. You miss the best descent at Falls Creek by only doing the uphill on McClellan Meadows too. We agree about the courtesy issue period, no arguement at all. See you out there sometime. BTW, I tend to start Falls Creek in the late afternoon to avoid conflicts. If you start around 3 or so it's a lonely place...
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppa#1 View Post
    I would chat with you anytime. As far as Ape I am confused due to my desire to always complete it with Smith Creek... thus, a loop. You miss the best descent at Falls Creek by only doing the uphill on McClellan Meadows too. We agree about the courtesy issue period, no arguement at all. See you out there sometime. BTW, I tend to start Falls Creek in the late afternoon to avoid conflicts. If you start around 3 or so it's a lonely place...
    Good to know about the late start for Falls Creek. On Ape, the Smith Creek loop is by far my favorite way to do the ride. One of the best in the region. But, coming back down Ape is an absolutely amazing trail that rivals Oakridge in my opinion if you can avoid the people, which is nearly impossible.

  8. #8
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    Getting back to COTA and the Phil's trail area, I'd vote for big "TRAIL CLOSED" signs during muddy spring conditions.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by thorkild View Post
    Sparty. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

    ...
    Thanks, Brutha.

    Quote Originally Posted by thorkild View Post
    ... Common courtesy is the best way to ride. ...
    And I agree with you here. Only problem is I've discovered that common courtesy isn't so common. It's the yokels that rules are written for, so the rules have to be spelled out pretty clearly. Even then, there's a good chance the yokels will do whatever they want anyway.

    Kinda like locks don't do much besides keep honest people honest. Thieves don't give a chit, they just up their game.

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  10. #10
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    By putting a rule in-place you are effectively granting someone superiority over another.
    I loath the biker->hiker->equestrian signs, it creates 3 classes of users. Signs should simply say "pay attention and be considerate of others."

  11. #11
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    I voted for option 2. I don't like option 1 since it states that downhill riders need to stop, which in most cases really isn't necessary.

    Can't say that I agree with the idea of giving downhill riders the right-of-way even on MTB only trail systems. If all riders were considerate, skilled, and responsible sure, but downhill right-of-way seems like a bit of a license for inconsiderate riders to behave badly. Not only that, but going against a fairly universally applied standard will likely lead to issues, especially on a trail system that gets tons of use from people from out of town/state.

    I generally move over to let a downhill rider pass when I'm climbing unless it's really steep and technical and getting started again is an issue. If it's too narrow for both to pass, and I'm in a spot that is easier for me to stop than the downhill rider, then I'll stop and move off the trail. Same goes for a situation when I'm riding solo and I come across a large group coming the other way. Easier for me to yeild than for 5 other riders to do so.

    Pretty simple really when all invovled are being courteous and using common sense.

  12. #12
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    I'll go with #2 but only if you change it to, "Downhill riders yield to others."

    On a multi-use trail network "uphill riders have right of way" gives uphill bike riders ROW over people on foot and horseback, which can lead to confusion.
    Last edited by Nat; 01-18-2013 at 05:06 PM.

  13. #13
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    Oregonians at a 4-way stop courtesy of Portlandia:
    Portlandia "No You Go" clip - YouTube

    Odd that doesn't translate often enough to the trail.

  14. #14
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    I still think the uphill rider has the right of way if we are talking about a cross-country trail. To be clear, I believe most trails around here are cross-country trails. But if a trail is designated as a down-hill or otherwise one-way trail (e.g. Sandy Ridge), then it's clear who has the right of way there!
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by thorkild View Post
    Sparty. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

    I also think there is a bit of irony in the title "trail etiquette poll" and the rule that one party has the right of way. If everyone exercised a bit of etiquette, there would be absolutely no need for a right of way rule. When I am out on the trail, I try to let the situation dictate my response. I try to be prepared to pull over for others in every situation, whether its uphill, downhill, or flat. If I'm grinding up a sweet downhill section, I almost always try to pull out of the trail to let downhill riders keep the fun up. When I'm going down and run into folks going up, I slow down and pull off to where I can stop to let them by. If they volunteer to move out of the way and tell me to keep going, I thank them and keep on. If they keep going, I let them through.

    Moral of the story, be nice to people and use some etiquette and everyone usually stays happy. Unfortunately, it really seems to be the folks that either completely ignore the rule (downhill riders not stopping and forcing uphill riders out of the way) or rigidly adhere to it with no exceptions. Classic example of this is the guy that gives you a dirty look like you didn't get far enough out of the way while he climbed by only to see him stop for a break 10 feet up the trail.

    Sooo, back to the poll, if I had a choice, I'd do an option 4: Common courtesy is the best way to ride. Otherwise, uphill has the right of way. Since that's not available as an option, I voted for 2 because provides a standard of conduct that downhill riders must observe rather than giving "rights" to uphill riders.
    Completely agree with most of what you have to say here.

    It always made sense to me to have the right of way coming down hill. I usually stop, get out of the way, and make sure to yell "keep it goin bra" or something to communicate to the downhiller to keep going. But again I simply let the circumstances dictate cross traffic...... if I am on a really techy climb I'm trying to nail I'll have at it. I always ALWAYS completely stop for hikers, smile, say hello, and let them decide what's next, same for horses, and vehemently insist anybody riding with me do the same.

    I feel a little to much emphasis is put on signage and etiquette. After 30 some years out on the trails I've come to the conclusion either your a toolbox or your not. No sign is going to change that.

    And oh yeah, I almost always ride Falls Creek as loop and use the road, and you haven't ridden ST. Helens untill you've started down at Smith Creek and ridden the Ape Canyon loop counterclockwise
    Last edited by WHALENARD; 01-20-2013 at 01:24 PM.

  16. #16
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    I believe the right away should always be to the person moving the fastest, like the DH rider as the climber can usually move aside much easier than the descender in most circustances. All riders should yield to all other users going either direction unless the other user (hiker) steps aside and let you pass by of course. So, I vote for none of the above.

    Oh, I guess if I had to pick between the three, #2 would get my vote as the DH should yield and pass with precaution or as indicated by the uphill person to do so.
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  17. #17
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    I hate to see a DH rider lock it up to slow down enough to get off the trail when I can so easily move over at climbing speed. I would retain the ROW for the uphill rider, but I frequently wave the DH rider through.

  18. #18
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    Voted for #2.

    I usually will get over when climbing if I see someone heading downhill as that is what I would like someone to do for me - keep the flow going. That said, there are a few spots around where if I stop on my SS while climbing it most likely means I get to walk to the top. Been called a few classy names which usually gets me to stop anyway for a discussion.

    Like the four-way stop video, ROW is important so that everyone knows what is expected. The person with the ROW can always defer.

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    the 3 choices are all goofy to me
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockin View Post
    That said, there are a few spots around where if I stop on my SS while climbing it most likely means I get to walk to the top.
    Too me, this is the obvious, most self-evident reason. Hard to believe there really is a discussion on this at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by newfydog View Post
    I hate to see a DH rider lock it up to slow down enough to get off the trail when I can so easily move over at climbing speed. I would retain the ROW for the uphill rider, but I frequently wave the DH rider through.
    If a rider has to lock it up they are riding out of control & are in need of a little instruction, which often takes place as I ride past them & say, "No skidding, please."


  22. #22
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    skidders know no rules...
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    Quote Originally Posted by gorgedon View Post
    If a rider has to lock it up they are riding out of control & are in need of a little instruction, which often takes place as I ride past them & say, "No skidding, please."

    Great point. See this all the time...
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  24. #24
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    We need to stick with one rule IMO or it will get all muddled up. I voted uphill riders have the right of way, but I voted too quickly, because option 2 might be the better choice.

    "Bend with the trail, don't brake it"

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    I agree with TheSchwagman about larger signs being posted to keep trail users off during muddy conditions.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    Too me, this is the obvious, most self-evident reason. Hard to believe there really is a discussion on this at all.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sans soucie View Post
    COTA is working on the best way to state "right of way". All three options say uphill has the right of way, but which would be best on a trail head sign?
    "Ascending rider has the right of way." That way there's none of that "but I'm uphill of you, therefore I'm the uphill rider" discussion.

    I also agree that the descending rider should have ROW at places like Blackrock and Sandy Ridge, but that it should be clearly stated that that's an aberration from The Rules [tm].

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  28. #28
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    Like Sparty and others, I initially thought #3 made the most sense. But I ultimately voted for #2 as more appropriate to a multi-use trail. And I agree with Nat that it should be "yield to others" not "yield for others."
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabrielle View Post
    "Ascending rider has the right of way." That way there's none of that "but I'm uphill of you, therefore I'm the uphill rider" discussion.
    Great point. We understand "uphill" and "downhill" as terms referring to the motion of the bike rider but someone new to the trails could misinterpret the terms as referring to the relative position of the bike rider.

    Therefore, I think "Descending riders yield to others" would be most accurate.

  30. #30
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    That's it

    Quote Originally Posted by GlowBoy View Post
    Like Sparty and others, I initially thought #3 made the most sense. But I ultimately voted for #2 as more appropriate to a multi-use trail. And I agree with Nat that it should be "yield to others" not "yield for others."
    I'd vote for option 2.1 -- "Descending riders yield to others."

    Er... if option 2.1 were there, anyway. Meanwhile should I vote for option 2 just to be counted?

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    Quote Originally Posted by imadumas View Post
    skidders know no rules...
    I believe the proper term is "skidiot".

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    I voted because I know you are just trying to put the right words on a sign (#2). Since this is a discussion, however, I would like to suggest that we consider the implementation of more one-way trails. I love that Whoops is a one-way trail. While I have ridden in Bend since about 1993, I currently reside in Rotorua New Zealand. The trails here are almost exclusively one-way. I am blown away at how effective this system is. Firstly, rider conflict is almost eliminated with one-way traffic as you only need to ever pass or be passed riders of different paces. You can really let it rip here! Secondly, even though the trails in Rotorua areas sees huge amounts of users, the lack of oncoming traffic makes the place seem almost empty. Couldn't this relieve congestion in the Phil's Triangle? Thirdly, trails can be designed for the designated direction of traffic. The trails here have crazy flow. The riders here, in general, have very little conflict and are much happier for it. While I am excited return to Bend riding, I do not look foward to the "looks" I get from uphill riders. The entire discussion of "right of way" implies that an uphill rider is more "righteous" than the downhill one--a feeling I get often from the indignant glares of my fellow riders. I am respectful of other riders but sometimes I can't help but feel that my downhill direction is sinful in the eyes of my uphill counterparts. Instead of a discussion of "right of way" lets just ride the right way--one way!

  33. #33
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    I've heard that about New Zealand ... even some of the long-distance hiking tracks are one-way, right?

    I experienced what you're talking about a couple of years ago on the Lebanon Hills trail system in Minnesota: a hugely popular network, but you run into very few other people because everyone's going the same direction. What I didn't like about Lebanon Hills was that almost everyone seemed to be in hammer mode, with most people treating it more like a technical racetrack than a ramble through the woods, and to me that's a whole lot less fun. So if you're a "just ride" type like me, you still end up seeing a fair number of people - as they pass you. It seemed that the one-way system encourages that behavior (at least if usage is high) because who wants to be getting passed all the time? But overall, even with the hypercompetitiveness of riding there, it still beat having the same number of people on the trail and running into oncoming riders every 30 seconds (which IS what you would have at LH if it weren't one-way).

    But while this can work great for MTB-specific trails, I don't realistically think you can get multi-use trails designated one-way. If you have other users, like hikers, you're always going to have people who want to do an out-and-back as far as they feel like hiking that day, without being committed to a huge loop. You're only going to pull off one-way trails if they're MTB-only, and we have damn few of those.
    Last edited by GlowBoy; 01-23-2013 at 09:21 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschmid View Post
    I voted because I know you are just trying to put the right words on a sign (#2). Since this is a discussion, however, I would like to suggest that we consider the implementation of more one-way trails. I love that Whoops is a one-way trail. While I have ridden in Bend since about 1993, I currently reside in Rotorua New Zealand. The trails here are almost exclusively one-way. I am blown away at how effective this system is. Firstly, rider conflict is almost eliminated with one-way traffic as you only need to ever pass or be passed riders of different paces. You can really let it rip here! Secondly, even though the trails in Rotorua areas sees huge amounts of users, the lack of oncoming traffic makes the place seem almost empty. Couldn't this relieve congestion in the Phil's Triangle? Thirdly, trails can be designed for the designated direction of traffic. The trails here have crazy flow. The riders here, in general, have very little conflict and are much happier for it. While I am excited return to Bend riding, I do not look foward to the "looks" I get from uphill riders. The entire discussion of "right of way" implies that an uphill rider is more "righteous" than the downhill one--a feeling I get often from the indignant glares of my fellow riders. I am respectful of other riders but sometimes I can't help but feel that my downhill direction is sinful in the eyes of my uphill counterparts. Instead of a discussion of "right of way" lets just ride the right way--one way!
    Great points. This is especially true with the increased use of tracking tools like Strava. Folks are out there to ride fast and furious! To be candid, I am a Strava user and my enjoyment of riding has increased by using it. That being said, I am very conscious of other riders and work hard to be polite and treat people with respect. The Phil's Triangle is very busy and one way trails might make sense. Of course the question will be, which ones? Kent's uphill and Phil's downhill, etc.... Tough to resolve. I think the signs will be a big help.

    I look forward to the opportunity to ride in New Zealand soon. The company I work for is based in Wellington. Sounds like an awesome place! Cheers!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    Great points. This is especially true with the increased use of tracking tools like Strava. Folks are out there to ride fast and furious! To be candid, I am a Strava user and my enjoyment of riding has increased by using it. . . .
    Maybe Strava needs a tool so you can put an asterisk on those runs where you weren't quite King of the Mountain, but had to slow down for some other users.

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    I've never had much conflict of deciding who has the ROW, In my experience the major problem is the person giving up the ROW ( which ever direction) does so by riding off the trail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Muesl View Post
    Maybe Strava needs a tool so you can put an asterisk on those runs where you weren't quite King of the Mountain, but had to slow down for some other users.
    LMAO!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff in Bend View Post
    I've never had much conflict of deciding who has the ROW, In my experience the major problem is the person giving up the ROW ( which ever direction) does so by riding off the trail.
    Agreed 1,000%!!!
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by thorkild View Post
    Sparty. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

    I also think there is a bit of irony in the title "trail etiquette poll" and the rule that one party has the right of way. If everyone exercised a bit of etiquette, there would be absolutely no need for a right of way rule. When I am out on the trail, I try to let the situation dictate my response. I try to be prepared to pull over for others in every situation, whether its uphill, downhill, or flat. If I'm grinding up a sweet downhill section, I almost always try to pull out of the trail to let downhill riders keep the fun up. When I'm going down and run into folks going up, I slow down and pull off to where I can stop to let them by. If they volunteer to move out of the way and tell me to keep going, I thank them and keep on. If they keep going, I let them through.

    Moral of the story, be nice to people and use some etiquette and everyone usually stays happy. Unfortunately, it really seems to be the folks that either completely ignore the rule (downhill riders not stopping and forcing uphill riders out of the way) or rigidly adhere to it with no exceptions. Classic example of this is the guy that gives you a dirty look like you didn't get far enough out of the way while he climbed by only to see him stop for a break 10 feet up the trail.

    Sooo, back to the poll, if I had a choice, I'd do an option 4: Common courtesy is the best way to ride. Otherwise, uphill has the right of way. Since that's not available as an option, I voted for 2 because provides a standard of conduct that downhill riders must observe rather than giving "rights" to uphill riders.
    I agree, if all of us would show some common courtesy then there would be no discussion about this subject. Being a rider who lives for the down, if I am climbing up I always pull over for the down so they can enjoy it but just like thorkid said, common courtesy is the best way, so if I am blasting down I always stop for the uphill.

  40. #40
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    Didn't vote all 3 options I don't like.

    Its easier for the person going uphill to move over so thats my vote. But I usually move over going either direction..so whatever...its not that big of a deal.
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by KTMDirtFace View Post
    Didn't vote all 3 options I don't like.

    Its easier for the person going uphill to move over so thats my vote. But I usually move over going either direction..so whatever...its not that big of a deal.
    Without intending to be disagreeable, you're wrong, KTMDirtFace. It is a big deal and those that don't see that it's a big deal are part of the problem. We're talking about a strategy to reduce trail conflict here; that's why it's important.

    Here's an extreme illustration, unrelated to trails: let's eliminate all traffic signals on roads and just tell drivers to "be nice and do the right thing" whenever they approach an intersection. Nope, that ain't gonna work. There's a good reason to have red and green lights.

    Sometimes rules confine us, other times rules provide us with freedom. This trail etiquette thing falls into the latter. It allows people to establish expectations, just like someone has when they're driving their car and they approach a green light -- people need to understand who has the right of way so something bad doesn't happen (at worst, like a collision) and avoid conflict (at the least).

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    I meant its not that big of a deal to me I yield both directions. So whatever some sign says is not going to matter to me.

    So if I had to pick one I would pick #2

    Where is the option that uphill yield to downhill
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by KTMDirtFace View Post
    I meant its not that big of a deal to me I yield both directions. So whatever some sign says is not going to matter to me.

    So if I had to pick one I would pick #2

    Where is the option that uphill yield to downhill
    Thanks for clarifying and I'm sorry I didn't understand the intent of your previous statement. I wouldn't have gone on such a tear.

    Part of the problem I see with trying to change established etiquette / user priority / whatever people want to call it is historic use. Throughout history, uphill trail traffic has enjoyed the right of way, so this is the current situation whether we like it or not. Then, in a relatively short time span (~20 years) along comes a "new" user group (mountain bikers) who, during that short span of time has become the predominant user group on many if not most trails. What to do? Change a longstanding and respected rule of etiquette just for the new (current) predominant user? Maybe. Maybe not. Who's to say who'll be the predominant trail user group in another 20 years? If mountain bikes had been around since the very beginning, maybe downhill right of way is the way things would have gone from the get go. Wouldn't that have been nice? I personally think so.

    But changing things now... whoa... what an uphill battle, if you'll forgive the pun. Everybody would have to be on board... the hikers, the equestrians, everybody. I just don't see this happening anytime soon, except on mountain-bike-only trail networks, where it's easy to do with trailhead signs &/or uphill-only and downhill-only trails.

    Meanwhile I'm frustrated by those folks who seem to feel we can change the uphill/downhill priority just be agreeing to on our own. I'm not saying you're one of those folks.

    I'm even more frustrated by those who simply ignore the rules. They seem to think they're effecting change when all they're really doing is making haters out of other trail users, including some people within their own ranks. Too bad.

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    Holly smokes Sparticus....overreact much? Last time I checked a mountain bike is not 2000+ pounds and deadly and your analogy is pointless. I've been mountain biking for over 25 years and guess what....the whole right of way thing (directional trails aside) is NOT a big deal.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by big JC View Post
    Holly smokes Sparticus....overreact much? Last time I checked a mountain bike is not 2000+ pounds and deadly and your analogy is pointless. I've been mountain biking for over 25 years and guess what....the whole right of way thing (directional trails aside) is NOT a big deal.
    So we've been riding about the same amount of time you & I... well, I've been at it couple years longer than you but who's counting?

    I agree it's not a big deal at the moment. I'm convinced that's because currently people respect the "rule" for the most part. But it'll become a big deal if mountain bikers, one by one, begin to simply disregard it. My concern stems from the fact that I know people who ride mountain bikes who do disregard it. They think the uphill right of way rule is inconvenient so they ignore it. In most cases they're relatively new to the sport (maybe to trails in general?) so I guess they either don't know / don't care or they simply think it's time things changed so they'll change them in whatever way they want by doing whatever they want. Maybe these are the same folks who get into the left lane on the freeway and just park there while traffic stacks up behind them? You know, the ones who disregard those inconvenient "Keep right except to pass" signs.

    Same attitude.

    Anyway, these folks are out there, within the sport I love but they don't represent me. I fear they're gaining ground. In fact, I'm afraid just a few of them can ruin things for the majority. For me. For all of us. What are they teaching the friends they bring into the sport of mountain biking? So call me an overreacter or whatever you want, but I'll continue use this forum to point out the self-absorbed, self-serving attitudes of such mountain bikers so long as I'm convinced it threatens access to even one trail.

    But yeah, for the record, I'm in a mood today. Sorry if I've come across a little overly fervent. Cheers!

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    Well I said over 25 years, been on a bike in the woods since I was 6 which was a looong time ago. I see your point but from my experience a percentage of mountain bikers are just tools as is a certain percentage of society at large. Over those many years on a bike I don't really see that percentage of mountain bikers that are tools growing or shrinking, it remains a constant..... signs or no signs. As many people pointed out on this thread trail etiquette is really unique to specific circumstances. I personally don't think signs have much of an impact safeguarding our mutually beloved sport. I feel being a good trail steward, advocating, etc. is energy better spent (which I know you do plenty of, and commend you for sir).

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by big JC View Post
    Well I said over 25 years, been on a bike in the woods since I was 6 which was a looong time ago. I see your point but from my experience a percentage of mountain bikers are just tools as is a certain percentage of society at large. Over those many years on a bike I don't really see that percentage of mountain bikers that are tools growing or shrinking, it remains a constant..... signs or no signs. As many people pointed out on this thread trail etiquette is really unique to specific circumstances. I personally don't think signs have much of an impact safeguarding our mutually beloved sport. I feel being a good trail steward, advocating, etc. is energy better spent (which I know you do plenty of, and commend you for sir).
    You know we agree there and I thank you for all you do to advance the sport and support mountain bike riding areas and the people use them. Hope to see you on the trail soon, my friend.

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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    I'm even more frustrated by those who simply ignore the rules. They seem to think they're effecting change when all they're really doing is making haters out of other trail users, including some people within their own ranks. Too bad.

    --sParty
    This.

    The signs should read "Uphill riders have the right of way - even if you are a Strava dork, or there is a Super D next weekend or you are on a group ride with 17 other a-holes." Seems like that would clear up a few problems.
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  49. #49
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    None of the above - Uphill riders yield to downhill. When are we going to get it Mr and Mrs MTB? Downhill yield to uphill is based on driving on ice covered roads. It is plain stupid in MTB.

    Uphill can see farther ahead. Uphill can hear more. Uphill can stop faster and more safely. Uphill can clear the trail faster. You work too hard to get to enjoy the downhill for too little time to have your line and rhythm messed-up by self-justified climbing riders, or walkers, or anything else.

    Interruption of short-term and harmless MTB enjoyment is the realm of narcissists, bureaucrats and s#itheads. Someone should post a meaningful poll. This one is like choosing which of your relatives gets to rape you.
    Last edited by Ridnparadise; 02-12-2013 at 02:17 AM.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by gorgedon View Post
    If a rider has to lock it up they are riding out of control & are in need of a little instruction, which often takes place as I ride past them & say, "No skidding, please."

    I bet they really respect that with you on your kiddie tricycle, or maybe your winged horse. Locking up on dirt - that must be easily as bad as a plane crash? I'd never have started riding MTB if I ever thought I might skid - arrrgggghhh!

    What do you guess might happen if you force someone to take evasive action to avoid splattering your self-opinionated, egocentric, cycling instructor arse? I say guess, as "think" is clearly a limited commodity in your attitude.

    Get out of the way and help someone else enjoy their day! Ever tried that? You may get a friendly response.

    Just one more thing - do you ever lift a tool to build trail, or do you just lecture people on how to ride to your (limited) level?

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