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  1. #1
    Metalheadbikerider
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    Tragic day in PDX.

    for those not already aware, a mtb/cross/road rider was struck and killed by a garbage truck in Portland this week. A sad, sad day.

    http://bikeportland.org/2007/10/22/v...ee-avid-racer/
    Support mtb'ing in the Portland area, join NWTA with your dollars, hands, and/or voice. nw-trail.org

  2. #2
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by free-agent
    for those not already aware, a mtb/cross/road rider was struck and killed by a garbage truck in Portland this week. A sad, sad day.

    http://bikeportland.org/2007/10/22/v...ee-avid-racer/
    Isn't this the second bike/garbage truck fatality in PDX in the last two weeks?

    Same circumstances. I remember reading it on the front page of the Oregonian on the 13th.
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  3. #3
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Isn't this the second bike/garbage truck fatality in PDX in the last two weeks?

    Same circumstances. I remember reading it on the front page of the Oregonian on the 13th.
    Cement truck: http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/...770.xml&coll=7
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  4. #4
    Metalheadbikerider
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    Yep....

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    a couple of weeks ago a 19 year old art student was struck and killed.
    Support mtb'ing in the Portland area, join NWTA with your dollars, hands, and/or voice. nw-trail.org

  5. #5
    meatier showers
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    Sorry to hear about this. Truly sad.

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    Jaybo... quit *****ing and move to Texas

  6. #6
    I got nothin'
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    Bad News

    We have already had four deaths this year in PDX Metro. Another guy was hit by a car on Marine Drive a couple of days ago. Sounds like his condition is improving.

    Is it time to start a public outreach and education campaign for drivers and cyclists?

  7. #7
    Daniel the Dog
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    Reason my road bike spooks me

    I would never ride my bike in the Portland area. No way! But, here in the Hood it is much safer. People get killed in PDX all the time.

    Jaybo

  8. #8
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    Dude we know you dont like Portland. Show some f*cking respect. I ride my bike in Portland every day and I LOVE it. Keep your *****ing about Portland to yourself.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by free-agent
    for those not already aware, a mtb/cross/road rider was struck and killed by a garbage truck in Portland this week. A sad, sad day.

    http://bikeportland.org/2007/10/22/v...ee-avid-racer/

    What a sad loss . . .

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I would never ride my bike in the Portland area. No way! But, here in the Hood it is much safer. People get killed in PDX all the time.

    Jaybo
    Actually, I don't think anybody died in a auto/cyclist accident last year.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
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    my respects.

    I second the cyclist awarness education for automobile drivers.

  12. #12
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    Maybe this isn't the thread to say this in but it's kind of annoying when people start in on the car vs biker thing. I've been commuting by bike in the Portland metro area for the last 11 years now. Not only do the motorist need to be educated the cyclist also need to be educated. I've had some really close calls with other cyclist while riding my bike. The same people that are riding thier bikes on the road are driving cars and are walking and nobody is looking out for each other.

    Several years ago I hit a runner on my bike at night and I'm using a Nightrider HID head lamp. He was dressed in all black and just ran out in front of me, I didn't see him untill it was to late. The first thing he said to me was "I wasn't looking for a cyclist". So I'd say just be careful on the roads whether you're driving, riding or walking.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
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    Well put.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan
    Maybe this isn't the thread to say this in but it's kind of annoying when people start in on the car vs biker thing. I've been commuting by bike in the Portland metro area for the last 11 years now. Not only do the motorist need to be educated the cyclist also need to be educated. I've had some really close calls with other cyclist while riding my bike. The same people that are riding thier bikes on the road are driving cars and are walking and nobody is looking out for each other.

    Several years ago I hit a runner on my bike at night and I'm using a Nightrider HID head lamp. He was dressed in all black and just ran out in front of me, I didn't see him untill it was to late. The first thing he said to me was "I wasn't looking for a cyclist". So I'd say just be careful on the roads whether you're driving, riding or walking.

  14. #14
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    Sad to hear this. Keep your eyes open folks.

  15. #15
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    I'm with OldHouseMan -- many cyclists are as much in need of education as the drivers. As cycling gets ever more popular and mainstream, a lot more inexperienced cyclists are hitting the roads. That's a good thing, but a lot of them are in serious need of education about how to interact with others on the road. (And then again, there are plenty of veteran cyclists who could use a safety lesson or two).

    Both of these last two truck-bike deaths were right hooks -- the biggest threat to cyclists' safety, contrary to many newbies' fear of getting hit from behind (which only causes 3% of cyclist deaths). In both cases the truck driver was technically at fault (the cement truck driver was cited, don't know about the garbage truck yet), but even so both would have been prevented by better defensive riding.

    Just the same, there but for the grace of God go I: I've stopped in the bike lane at 14th and Burnside (where the cement truck incident happened) countless times, and I can't say with total certainty that I would have avoided that situation myself.

    Thanks for taking the opportunity to take another swipe at PDX, Jaybo. Just remember there are 1.9 million people in the Portland area. It's still by FAR one of the safest places in this country to ride a bike. Deaths may be unheard-of where you are, but that's a small community. I'd bet the overall death rate where you are is higher.
    "People like GloyBoy are deaf. They are partisan, intellectually lazy & usually very angry." -Jaybo

  16. #16
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    Well said GlowBoy.

    I can imagine myself careening down that stretch of Interstate, getting passed by a large truck, slipping behind to draft a bit in the driver's blind spot, then whipping around on the right to blow by when he slows down. Gives me the chills.

    But know one really knows what happened. Not the cops, not the media, not me or you and probably not even that driver or the cyclist.

    God speed Brett Jarolimek.

  17. #17
    mudnthebloodnthebeer
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    Quote Originally Posted by amtbr
    Dude we know you dont like Portland. Show some f*cking respect. I ride my bike in Portland every day and I LOVE it. Keep your *****ing about Portland to yourself.
    "Bike-friendly Portland" is a myth perpetuated by dilettantes. And yes, I live here and ride here.
    Also, the streets are full of horizontal dropouts...

    BSNYC

  18. #18
    mudnthebloodnthebeer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Muesl
    Well said GlowBoy.

    I can imagine myself careening down that stretch of Interstate, getting passed by a large truck, slipping behind to draft a bit in the driver's blind spot, then whipping around on the right to blow by when he slows down. Gives me the chills.

    But know one really knows what happened. Not the cops, not the media, not me or you and probably not even that driver or the cyclist.

    God speed Brett Jarolimek.
    Somehow not having the knowledge of how it happened as a lesson that could save someone else makes it even more tragic, if that's possible. There's just something about a highly competent cyclist trying to pass a vehicle that had allegedly signaled a right turn that doesn't compute for me, and I definitely question why this guy was behind the wheel of a commercial vehicle in the first place.
    Also, the streets are full of horizontal dropouts...

    BSNYC

  19. #19
    Shamisen Appreciator
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    Props to OldHouseMan and Glowboy. IMO, they both have it right. EVERYONE needs to do a better job at looking out for everyone else. I've had pedestrians step in front of me WHILE making eye contact, I've had cyclists yell at me for *gasp* stopping at a stop sign while they were drafting me and I even managed to avoid a right hook in my second week of living here.

    I didn't know Brett, but he worked with a few friends of mine. To say that his loss is devastating to them would be a terrible understatement. I wish his family and everyone he touched the best in dealing with his loss.

    Jaybo - WTF? If you're afraid to ride here, don't. Do you feel better for having added that bit of information to this thread?

    Quaffimodo - I wouldn't necessarily say that bike friendliness is a myth, unless you're saying it to keep more people from moving here. I'm not very worldly, but of the major cities in which I've lived, Portland is absolutely the most bike friendly of them. Go spend some time riding around Baltimore, DC, Providence or Boston and it might reset your opinion. I haven't been yelled at or had anything thrown at me in my 2.5 years here...I can't say the same for those other cities...and I only lived in Providence for 6 months.

    Be safe out there everyone.
    Sean Chaney :: Owner/Builder :: Vertigo Cycles LLC
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  20. #20
    mudnthebloodnthebeer
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    Quote Originally Posted by smudge

    ...I'm not very worldly, but of the major cities in which I've lived, Portland is absolutely the most bike friendly of them. Go spend some time riding around Baltimore, DC, Providence or Boston and it might reset your opinion.

    Relatively, I'm certain that you're right. You only need to cross the Columbia River into Vantucky to see that. PDX still seems far too comfortable with the notion of violence done to cyclists for my taste.
    Also, the streets are full of horizontal dropouts...

    BSNYC

  21. #21
    Shamisen Appreciator
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    Quote Originally Posted by quaffimodo
    Relatively, I'm certain that you're right. You only need to cross the Columbia River into Vantucky to see that. PDX still seems far too comfortable with the notion of violence done to cyclists for my taste.
    The problem seems to be that the laws aren't written to punish the negligent appropriately. It's unsettling.
    Sean Chaney :: Owner/Builder :: Vertigo Cycles LLC
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  22. #22
    mtbr member
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    Long Post

    Quote Originally Posted by smudge
    The problem seems to be that the laws aren't written to punish the negligent appropriately. It's unsettling.
    What really pisses me off is that the "professional" cement truck driver should have noticed that a cyclist (or a ped in the crosswalk for that matter) was in his blind spot if the mirrors were adjusted correctly and he used them before turning right into the cyclist's path.
    Read this from a professional driver: Post 180 Portland.Bike
    I'm not a bicyclist, but I was employed as a truck driver for more than 30 years. The last 12of those 30 years were spent in a concrete transit-mixer that was, for all practical purposes, identical to the one involved in this accident.
    Television news reports showed that the truck had a convex mirror mounted just below the passenger side flat mirror, and a convex mirror mounted on the front of the right fender.
    If those mirrors are clean and properly adjusted, there is no "blind spot" on the right side of the truck. The images in a convex mirror are small and distorted, but a bicyclist stopped AT ANY POINT alongside on the right would have been plainly visible to the driver.
    If eyewitness accounts that the cyclist and truck were both stopped at the intersection before the accident are correct, then my opinion as a professional driver is that the operator of the mixer is 100% at fault in this case.
    Sam Knox


    The other thing that I'm pissed about is the Police's biases towards cyclist, read this: Why were the truck drivers not given a citation for failure to yield to a bicycle in a bike lane?

    The law (ORS 811.050) seems clear:
    “A person commits the offense of failure of a motor vehicle operator to yield to a rider on a bicycle lane if the person is operating a motor vehicle and the person does not yield the right of way to a person operating a bicycle, electric assisted bicycle, moped, motor assisted scooter or motorized wheelchair upon a bicycle lane.”
    The cyclists in both recent fatalities were legally in the bike lane at the time of the collisions.
    “The cops are misconstruing the law in a biased way…We’ve got a system that is designed to exonerate the car driver.”
    –Lawyer Mark Ginsberg
    After the Sparling incident I asked Traffic Division Lt. Mark Kruger why no citation was given to the cement truck driver. His response was something to the effect of, “We’ve determined that there was just no way he could have seen her.”
    Then, at the scene of the Jarolimek collision, Kruger once again painted a picture of circumstances that led his investigators to believe that the garbage truck driver did everything he could to avoid the collision, and therefore would not be cited. Kruger told me that not only had the truck signaled, slowed, and checked it’s mirror, but that his team believed Jarolimek’s high speed down the hill “could have been a factor.”
    Over the past two weeks, I have been wrestling with this in my head. What I still don’t understand is,
    If a person willingly moves their vehicle into the travel lane of another vehicle and a collision occurs, should that person be absolved of all responsibility (even if an attempt was made to make sure no one was there)?
    KGW reporter Aaron Weiss was also perplexed by this. Yesterday, on KGW’s “Talk of the town” blog, he wrote that the law, “seemed cut and dry to me, but Portland Police see a more nuanced situation.”
    When Weiss asked Portland police spokesman Sgt. Brian Schmautz for clarification, here’s what Schmautz said,
    “..yielding the right of way, and determining whether a traffic violation has occurred, comes down to a matter of perception. Basically, the driver has to perceive he has to yield the right of way.”
    So now, according to an official PPB spokesperson, “perception” plays a role in determining whether or not someone has violated the failure to yield statute.

    This was an interesting revelation to me, so I called Portland lawyer Mark Ginsberg this morning to get his input. He did not mince words.
    “The cops are miscontruing the law in a biased way. There’s no mental state requirement [also known by its latin name of “mens rea”] for traffic violations. You can accidentally run a red light, or purposely run a red light, either way you are guilty.

    What they are saying is that ‘I didn’t see him’ is a good enough defense. It is not.

    They [the police] are coming in to these investigations with a confirmation bias and they’re finding facts that back up that bias. We’ve got a system that is designed to exonerate the car driver.”

    Ginsberg plans to bring his concerns about enforcement to the emergency meeting being held by Commissioner Adams. He has also requested the presence of someone from the City Attorney’s office, who play a role in interpreting laws for the police.

    Be safe out there.


  23. #23
    Metalheadbikerider
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    Exactly...

    We aren't talking about some dumb@ss cyclist here, and we all know some cyclists need training (I saw a young lady riding down Burnside yesterday at 5pm!). We are talking about someone riding legally being killed, plain and simple. And the dude had 25 prior traffic citations!

    I agree with Quaffimodo, this is BS and we as a city, despite being called "bike friendly" by Bicycling Magazine, are WAY too comfortable with the lack of action for these horrific occurrences. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what punishment is effective in preventing this from happening again. Is there an effective punishment-one that will actually reduce future accidents?
    Or do we need city leaders to think outside the box and get us separated as much as possible from the cars and trucks that hold our lives in their hands? Maybe we need to refocus our collective energy and put pressure on our leaders to funnel more $ and thinking towards this issue. Maybe we need to get more militant in our approach?
    Support mtb'ing in the Portland area, join NWTA with your dollars, hands, and/or voice. nw-trail.org

  24. #24
    mudnthebloodnthebeer
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    Quote Originally Posted by smudge
    The problem seems to be that the laws aren't written to punish the negligent appropriately. It's unsettling.
    It's pretty tough to judge the adequacy of the laws until they're actually enforced IMO.
    Also, the streets are full of horizontal dropouts...

    BSNYC

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