Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 26 to 50 of 50

Thread: Powell Butte

  1. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    317
    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
    The root removal/covering is driven by Portland Parks. Exposed roots affect tree health and Powell Butte is a "Nature Park". Hands are tied on many aspects of this project, but we are doing what we can to add some flavor to the trails and improve the experience for all of the users. (Better trail layout with more direction and elevation changes, improved drainage, better sight lines, etc...)
    They just cut out about a dozen trees that were no more than 7" in diameter. All of the cut is laying at the top of the NW side switchback. That can/could/should be used for making some technicals or jumps. To bad they are pulverizing all the bigger rocks they dig up at the res project, could be really useful for the trail.

  2. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    182
    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
    The root removal/covering is driven by Portland Parks. Exposed roots affect tree health and Powell Butte is a "Nature Park".
    I find this INCREDIBLY contradictory as they just ripped up most of the top of the park to put in millions of gallons of covered reservoirs. Nature Park indeed!

    (not attacking you at all, just the many who fight mountain biking access based on "nature" arguments)
    Last edited by trimess; 07-09-2014 at 10:46 AM.

  3. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bubba13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    689
    Quote Originally Posted by trimess View Post
    I find this INCREDIBLY contradictory as they just ripped up most of the top of the park to put in millions of gallons of covered reservoirs. Nature Park indeed!

    (not attacking you at all, just the many who are fight mountain biking access based on "nature" arguments)
    I agree with you so no harm there. The trails are hike/bike/equestrian, so it is not a matter of access. The basic problem with the whole project up there is that it was planned from top down. Park users were put low on the totem pole when the trail system was laid out. "Nature" had a front seat for the design process. A couple of nice trails were removed to leave certain areas on the Butte minus people. If that really improves conditions for the wildlife at Powell Butte, I guess time will tell.

    As trail builders that ride, we got many alterations approved that make existing and new trails work better. Unfortunately it will never be a Sandy Ridge and was never meant to be.
    Portland Off Road Navagators

  4. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jgusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    2,649
    Quote Originally Posted by pdxmark View Post
    They just cut out about a dozen trees that were no more than 7" in diameter. All of the cut is laying at the top of the NW side switchback. That can/could/should be used for making some technicals or jumps. To bad they are pulverizing all the bigger rocks they dig up at the res project, could be really useful for the trail.
    What root and trees? I have been riding there off/on for 20yrs now and don't recall any root sections besides this old root drop thing on far west side that has been closed for years now and little root kicker on Wild Hawthorne trail. If you want a tech challenge, the new wooden stairs on steep trail section on the north side are pretty challenging to clean. I cleaned that tonight for the first time, but wasn't without some trepidation. My main concern with the new trails is the smattering of routes and directions people ride them in now with no designated climb/descend route. Tonight afterwork, there must of been about 20-30 bikers out (plus quite of few walkers w/dogs) that were all riding and walking all the trails in various directions, including myself. I almost totally nailed a fellow biker (within a couple of inches) while climbing at around the Pioneer Orchard trail that other biker was coming down and passed by quite of few other bikers/users going opposite direction of me as well. I really think these new trails should have a preferred climb/descent route or people are going to get nailed unfortunately and think this potential is going to be even worse than was before as more people use it.
    Ride On!

  5. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    317
    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta View Post
    What root and trees? I have been riding there off/on for 20yrs now and don't recall any root sections besides this old root drop thing on far west side that has been closed for years now and little root kicker on Wild Hawthorne trail. If you want a tech challenge, the new wooden stairs on steep trail section on the north side are pretty challenging to clean. I cleaned that tonight for the first time, but wasn't without some trepidation. My main concern with the new trails is the smattering of routes and directions people ride them in now with no designated climb/descend route. Tonight afterwork, there must of been about 20-30 bikers out (plus quite of few walkers w/dogs) that were all riding and walking all the trails in various directions, including myself. I almost totally nailed a fellow biker (within a couple of inches) while climbing at around the Pioneer Orchard trail that other biker was coming down and passed by quite of few other bikers/users going opposite direction of me as well. I really think these new trails should have a preferred climb/descent route or people are going to get nailed unfortunately and think this potential is going to be even worse than was before as more people use it.
    I think there is a misunderstanding, I'm stating that the trees they cut in the NW side switchbacks with berms, the trunks of them are laying at the top of the switchback, and just 30m south up the hill from there as well. It's just cut laying around, not roots, just cut trees. They should be used in the trail building, but I'd have to talk to the builders up there about it, which I think I want to talk to them anyways about the traffic flow issue you mentioned. It's only a matter of time before a couple people get seriously hurt because of a design flaw.

    There is this really nice chute into a blind right around a ridge side that shoots upward and takes a hard left around a tree that takes up half the path, if you are going North bound. The corner is blind and is fun to take in both directions, though North bound is fastest. The bermed corner has about a four or five foot drop off the north side, if two people were to have an accident right there, it could be a nasty! Unfortunately, that is also the only cool spot on that path.
    Observe, report.

  6. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    182
    I think that might have been me you almost hit (sleeveless jersey (it was laundry day...)). I too have never seen as many cyclists there as there were yesterday evening. Usually I see a few people (with no helmets, slowly bumbling down the trail) but last night had a lot of people with clipless pedals, I was shocked. I guess the word on the new trails is getting out.

    As much as I dislike directional trails (as they tend to usually discourage any technical uphill trail design), they might be the way to go at Powell Butte (as in most of Western OR), with so many blind corners. I had a couple of very near misses last night.
    One problem is that there aren't that many trails as Powell, so directional trails will limit your choices a good bit.

    I am really surprised they closed a few of those steeper trails in the middle. I thought they would leave those hiker trails in. I am definitely waiting for them to close what's left of the top loop service road.

    Today's rain might be enough to really firm up those new trails (after they dry out of course)

  7. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Gman086's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    3,620
    The only new trails I found were just a bunch of switchbacks full of a foot of dust. I hope that's not the new design for modern builds! I think I'll spend my time trying to save what is left of Riverview (keeps getting more and more dumbed down) and help build over at Gateway if that's the case.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Last edited by Gman086; 08-30-2013 at 09:53 AM.
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  8. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jgusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    2,649
    Quote Originally Posted by trimess View Post
    I think that might have been me you almost hit (sleeveless jersey (it was laundry day...)). I too have never seen as many cyclists there as there were yesterday evening. Usually I see a few people (with no helmets, slowly bumbling down the trail) but last night had a lot of people with clipless pedals, I was shocked. I guess the word on the new trails is getting out.

    As much as I dislike directional trails (as they tend to usually discourage any technical uphill trail design), they might be the way to go at Powell Butte (as in most of Western OR), with so many blind corners. I had a couple of very near misses last night.
    One problem is that there aren't that many trails as Powell, so directional trails will limit your choices a good bit.

    I am really surprised they closed a few of those steeper trails in the middle. I thought they would leave those hiker trails in. I am definitely waiting for them to close what's left of the top loop service road.

    Today's rain might be enough to really firm up those new trails (after they dry out of course)
    I was wearing black 3/4 jersey top w/white helmet on +6" silver squish if that was me. I was referring to coming inches from nailing this rider gal in a small group while jamming around a corner I think not long after I went by you, on backside of Pioneer Orchard, if that was you? I thought for sure I was going to hit her and would of felt really bad about it. I usually don't fret people passing by me when going up or down, just don't want to nail someone (so far clean record of that riding muli-use trails fairly regularly over the years). I am also surprised they closed all the hiker only sections and thought that was the whole point of the new trails, to allow more for bikers so they stay off the hiking ones. Night riding there is going to have to be the ticket for me. Even though a lot of the new trails were duffy and a bit choppy, they were a bit better than they were just a week ago and will continue to get better and better over time. Just wish I could rip them for what they are without sweating running into someone around every corner. The trails do look nicely designed and appreciate the little features here and there that were added. Kudos to Treadworks and Lee ("bubba 13") for all their work. Definitely a big upgrade for PB.
    Ride On!

  9. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    66

    Powell Butte

    Yes - I also would like to recognize the quality of new trail design. Great upgrade - more fun to ride - especially uphill.

    So far I have not run into many other bikers - but I am always prepared for this and ride carefully. Especially hikers with dogs are a challenge.

  10. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    3
    Hi All, although I've been reading the posts here on MTBR for years, this is my first post. Full Disclosure, I am the owner of Treadwerks. We are the subcontractor for trail construction on Powell Butte. Treadwerks has a long history of building purpose built bike trails throughout Oregon, and had to provide Portland Park and Rec. with a lengthy resume in order to qualify for even bidding on the Powell Butte project.
    Working closely with City of Portland, Portland Water Bureau and the Portland Park and Rec. Dept. Treadwerks has been a partner in building/repairing some very sweet trails on the Butte.
    As has been mentioned on other posts, the trail specifications for this project included numerous provisions for protection and armoring of tree roots, and also for trail width and drainage that makes the trails sustainable for the long term, improves sight lines and allows for safe interaction for all the varied user groups.
    All that being said, as a trail contractor, we feel that we have built a wide variety of fun, flowy trails that work well for all users, and if you as a mt. biker pay careful attention, you might find some flavor within the trail experience that was missing from the Butte in the past!
    As to the dusty conditions. Due to the size and timeline of the Powell Butte project, the trail construction had to continue through less than ideal moisture content in the soil. With the recent rains, the aforementioned trails have bedded down and are riding quite nicely.
    Treadwerks would like encourage riders to come out and experience the new and refurbished trails first hand. Our crew regularly rides the trails in the afternoons on Tuesday and Wednesday. Stop by the big blue storage box on the corner of Meadowland and Goldfinch trails and we would love to ride some laps with any interested parties.

  11. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    182
    guru, Thanks for the reply. That was the kind of info I was looking for.
    Question: Are all the trails going to remain open for biking, or will some go back to hiker only?

    I'm shocked they have permanently closed so many of the old trails, but I like the new stuff better as it's not as straight and steep.

    Keep up the good work.

  12. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    3
    I can't say for sure what the future holds at Powell Butte in terms of trail designation, but it has been my experience while working on the project that the p&r has softened it's stance on enforcement.
    That doesn't mean that some negative interaction between user groups couldn't change that stance.

  13. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jgusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    2,649
    Quote Originally Posted by trimess View Post
    Keep up the good work.
    +1 to Trail Guru as well. Trails are much better and fun to ride while working on cornering and flow on the all the many turns. I can actually ride there for >1hr now and not get bored by hitting all the different sections that are now open to bikes.

    Cheers,
    Jon
    Ride On!

  14. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    317
    PB Rider Alert:

    Over the last month while riding PB I've noticed that there are broken bottles being buried in a way that will flatten tires(half in ground, broken areas facing upward out of soil). The traps seem to be more located at the tops of trails located between Meadowland and Cedar Grove. I've not been able to get up with a shovel and remove them and the ground is packed well enough that a stick will not dig, just break. To mark the traps I grabbed handfuls of broken twigs and laid them over the buried glass in order to pad the trap if anyone felt like flying over it, and because I don't have anything like bright ribbon or the ability to make a sign, padding them was all I could come up with.

    ...

    Since finding three broken and half buried glass traps I've been trying to locate my folding shovel, with no luck. Can I get one from the construction sight on the weekdays if I ask and tell them what it's for?

    Before I can get back up there though I have to replace my left crank arm, and that may not be until after the 4th.
    Observe, report.

  15. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    983
    Thanks pdxmark!
    Master of Laundry...Lord of Cleaning!

  16. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    317
    I have lots of links to Portland area mtb friendly trails, I just found a site that has the most detailed mapping I've seen of PB yet, it even has a better topographical representation of firelane1, but not all the trails being shown are bike legal; it's showing other bike friendly FP trails that are not on the Parks website as being in existence, but I've rode them.

    Explore Parks & Trails | The Intertwine[]=5791#node_5791
    Observe, report.

  17. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    11

    Trail Access Update

    Hopefully this works, I don't think I've ever posted to here before. I ride PB a lot during the week and occasional weekends and while it may not be perfect to a lot of people, I think it's a great way to get over 1,000 ft of climbing and 15-20 miles in after work.

    The signage up there right now is terrible with construction and the new maps put out on the water bureau website doesn't distinguish which trails are open to what types of users like they used to. I see people up there all the time riding the hiking only trails or ripping down the hill past families and hikers. I realize not everyone feels the same way I do about not riding on trails that you shouldn't be, so all I want to do is share the information I have and hope people can appreciate PB for what it is rather than take actions that could eventually lead to even less riding up there.

    Copied below is the exact wording from my email conversation with a rep from the city and water bureau:
    --------
    I have confirmed with Portland Parks & Recreation that the following trails within the Powell Butte Nature Park are closed to bike access:
    -Dogwood
    -Wild Hawthorne (Hawthorn)
    -Fernwood (short connector from Hawthorn to Douglas Fir Trail)
    -Wildhorse
    At this time, all other trails allow bike access. As we work on permanent signage, we will be clarifying and graphically illustrating bike access.
    --------- End of city rep's email.

    On the trail map below I've marked in red the trails that are not open to bikers. Though she did not say it explicitly, I would also assume to stay off the Dogwood-Holgate Connector since it leads to the Dogwood Trail which is off limits.

    One thing to note is the additional access to the Douglas Fir Trail. From all the maps I have saved going back to '08 (I think) this trail has been hiking only and is now open to bikes. Also, if you haven't ridden The South Trail in a while, the reroute is a huge improvement! As is the banked turn section just down hill from the intersection of Elderberry Trail and the Pipeline Lane (a access road).

    Powell Butte-pb-trails-june2014.jpg

  18. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    182
    People are riding the hiking only trails, because as you described, there is no designation or signage there right now. I'm really confused as to why there needs to be any specifically designated trails at all (especially considering the trails have all been built just about the same way/style). I ride there quite a bit, and while I realize I am only anecdotal, I have had no conflict with other users (horses, bikes, hikers, runners, or dog owners). If cyclists are going to be prevented from certain trails, perhaps we should have some of our own designated trails (that we could build up a little more).

    And closing "Wildhorse" to bikes is really silly. With that trail closed to bikes the only access to the trails from the parking lot is a paved path?!?!?!?!

    It would be bummer if Fernwood is really closed to bikes as that is the only real single track in the park, and a fun little ride.

    Since apparently I'm in rant mode, I'm also a bit annoyed with new gravel and another 2-3 inches of loss dirt thrown on the trails on top of the Butte.

  19. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    11
    Without signage really the only way to know where you're supposed to be up there is from memory if someone has been riding for a long time in the area. I'll admit I almost gave up on trying to find out what the trail access situation was like after the project finishes, but ended up getting a hold of a very responsive person in city government.

    I hadn't thought about the ride from the parking lot as I never use it. I get on the spring water at various points and use that as a warm up. I think once construction is done the connector on the north side from the lot to The Old Holgate Trail should reopen. And though it's not a parking lot, there's a fair amount of room at the trail head at the end of the Holgate trail too.

    I would agree that if there is going to be restricted trails then all users should get something in return. Hikers get to go on trails knowing (or hoping) they won't have any bikes flying past them. I'd like to ride down or up the trails that have so obviously been re-routed with biking in mind knowing that I'm not going to come across hikers. Which even though I say hi to 99% of people I cross up there unless I'm outa breath, I still get dirty looks when I catch up to hikers and they act so annoyed to let me by. Now meeting head on, I'll slow and let them go if they want, though many just wave me by while they stop. My favorite are dog owners with their dogs off leash who are obviously not under the strict verbal control that their owners thing they have...and no, I don't hate dogs. I have/had many of them. But I still don't believe they should be off leash in areas that have leash laws and are open to multiple user groups. Two or three summers ago I watched a lady get tossed into the hill side off her horse when a dog off leash ran up to it. These are certainly the exceptions though, the off leash dog thing is constant, but as far as issues with hikers or others it's maybe once a season.

    And with regards to getting our own trails up there, it may be time to get in touch with NWTA and see if they have any plans or anyone taking ownership of the future use of trails on PB. I know there were meetings way back before the construction, but I haven't heard of much recently.

    Oh...and all the gravel and loose crap sucks. There was a ton of fresh gravel just west of the new mountain finder...and now it is blacktop. Makes me wonder if the whole top loop is going to become paved to make it more accessible. But right now I avoid much of the top as 3+ inches of gravel doesn't make for nice riding.

  20. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    148
    So I guess I'm not seeing the "new" trails I've heard were built, looks like same old deal. What am I missing here?

  21. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    182
    Some of these aren't the old trails. They are just in somewhat similar locations to the old trails. There was one completely new built trail (Douglas Fir) which definitely feels like it it was built with bikes in mind, and two or three others where about 1/2 is completely new. Bummer they couldn't put a little more berm in some of the corners on a few of these trails. They have some pretty hard tight/turns onto flats of off cambers. If they went to the trouble of hiring a trail builder (as discussed above), why not get a little more flow and berms into parts of the trails.

    I've had very few negative interactions with other trail users there. Sorry to hear you're getting dirty looks.

    Nothing says "nature park" like a paved path!

  22. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    80
    I've been riding at PB for years. Before the construction, there was a brief public comment period on the trail realignment plan. During that process, it seemed like they'd be decommissioning the best trail (I can't remember it's original name, but it was oriented where the "South Trail" is on the above new map). I wrote to one of the project committee members, and they told me that the committee was leaning toward multiple use on *all* trails. I think that's an excellent idea. Currently, the Wildhorse, Fernwood and Hawthorne trails are among the best in the park. Since the current map signage indicates no trails are closed to bikes (check out all the online maps and all the maps posted at the park), I've been riding everything. Since these trails are discontinuous and in different areas of the park, they do not offer non-cycling trail users the opportunity of a bike-free experience. So they are more or less pointless in my mind. All the trails should be multi-use.

  23. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    80
    I sent the following to the Friends of Powell Butte, and will send a copy to PP&R and NWTA. Free Powell Butte!

    Dear Friends of Powell Butte Nature Park,

    I'm writing today to encourage the Friends to take a pro-bicycle stance in regards to trail access at Powell Butte.

    I've been riding my bike at Powell Butte since 2008. Before the current construction, there was a brief public comment period on the trail realignment plan. During that process, it seemed like they'd be restricting access to what was then the best trail in the park (I can't remember its original name, but it was oriented where the "South Trail" is on the new map). I wrote to one of the project committee members, and they told me that the committee was actually leaning toward multiple use on *all* trails. I think that's an excellent idea.

    Since then, I've never heard otherwise, though, to be honest, Parks and Recreation hasn't exactly been forthcoming with the details of bicycle access. Given the fraught nature of bicycle access issues in Forest Park, and the very specific rules in place in that park, it's struck me as odd that they've been so quiet about what is happening at Powell Butte.

    So, during this time, I've been following the directions of the new map signage placed all around the park, and the maps indicate no trails closed to bikes. Yay! It's been so much fun to explore the park. The new trails are all excellent.

    However, I've recently heard online that some of the trails may in fact be closed to bikes. See post #42 in this thread: Powell Butte

    The trails that are slated to be closed to bikes (Dogwood, Wildhorse, Fernwood and Hawthorn) are among the best in the park. Since these trails are discontinuous and in different areas of the park, they do not offer non-cycling trail users the opportunity of a bike-free experience. So they are more or less pointless in my mind.

    I know this partly because I visit the park as a hiker as often as I do as a rider. When my girlfriend and I go hiking there, we are not about to limit ourselves to looping around the Dogwood Trail infinitely. And, there'd be no point anyway: to date, we've only had positive experiences with riders on the trails.

    Powell Butte is currently in a state of rebirth, from an okay, neighborhood-oriented place to ride to a real mountain bike destination, especially for beginner riders who aren't ready to tackle difficult trails systems like Sandy Ridge. If trails that are currently signed as open to bikes are placed off-limits, that would reduce the park much to its earlier state.

    Thanks for reading,
    Charley Reneau

  24. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    148
    I went out there yesterday evening for the first time in at least a couple of years. Prior to that I rode regularly at PB since 1995 but grew weary of hiker / horse interaction (95% horse issues) and really with Sandy not too much farther away just stopped going there. Very pleasantly surprised with what I found, great job on the trails and easily the most fun I've ever had at PB. Are the trails sanitized as alleged ? yeah some of it may be dumbed down but they're as fast and smooth as any trail you'll find round here. The new sections are really fun, definitely worth the quick drive over to park and ride a few miles. I'll be back for sure.

  25. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    3
    Howdy Folks,

    This just came through my email box and we at the NWTA are following up to clarify some of these issues. Please feel free to get in touch at the email below and I will post an update when we hear where things are.

    Tyler
    Advocacy Chair, NWTA

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Similar Threads

  1. Lake Powell, Biking and Kayaking..
    By Fishbucket in forum Arizona
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 02-12-2013, 06:56 AM
  2. BC Bike Race 2012 Powell River
    By norona in forum Endurance XC Racing
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-04-2012, 08:58 AM
  3. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 04-14-2012, 08:13 AM
  4. Powell River trip
    By gord962 in forum Western Canada
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-04-2011, 10:20 PM
  5. Powell Butte this weekend?
    By nodaknat in forum Oregon
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-20-2011, 08:48 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •