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  1. #1
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    Portland trails?

    Does anyone know of quality singletrack within the city, or in the immediate outskirts? Either xc stuff or downhill, I love it all

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    You can locate a thread on this,but the short answer is nothing.I wish that I could offer "something".Sandy Ridge is 40 miles from the east side of Portland.Worth it,but 40 miles to get there.Not to mention the "pleasure" of driving through Gesham and Sandy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by poppa#1 View Post
    You can locate a thread on this,but the short answer is nothing.I wish that I could offer "something".Sandy Ridge is 40 miles from the east side of Portland.Worth it,but 40 miles to get there.Not to mention the "pleasure" of driving through Gesham and Sandy.

    -Cheers!
    I use an ultra secret route around these towns that is actually somewhat pleasant to drive.
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    I use an ultra secret route around these towns that is actually somewhat pleasant to drive.
    I believe that it was Prince who wrote "take me with you".Heal up and guide...I always want to go in the afternoon ,but I can't stomach the thought of that drive from the Hawthorne area.
    Master of Laundry...Lord of Cleaning!

  5. #5
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    Troutdale exit....

    off of 84 now that the construction is finished on it isn't that bad. It pops you out on 26 beyond Gresham. It's definitely faster than going through Gresham.
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    So not much in Mt. Tabor, Forest Park, or other surrounding areas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by applecakes View Post
    So not much in Mt. Tabor, Forest Park, or other surrounding areas?
    this is portland they don't believe in being able to ride your bike off the pavement.
    Voice your support for Timberline Bike Park
    http://www.timberlinelodge.com/mountainbike/

  8. #8
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    I happened across a little park in Beaverton that is like a dirt version of a skate park. Seemed pretty busy with local BMX'rs. Just in case you want to just sharpen skills.

    plug this into google maps: Eichler Park, Beaverton, OR

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by applecakes View Post
    So not much in Mt. Tabor, Forest Park, or other surrounding areas?
    There are some trails at Mt. Tabor. It will probably take you longer to get to Mt. Tabor then it will to ride the single track unless you live within 1 block of Mt. Tabor.

    Forest Park has a scant bit of legal single track (I think it's 1/8 of a mile). There are plenty of fire roads to ride on to keep you in shape, but it's not very interesting.

    Powell Butte has some single track. Which trails are open to bicycles depends on which map or sign you look at. You can measure the single track in miles, but it still isn't anything to get excited about. It is on the spring water trail, so you can ride your bike there and back.

    All in all, a cyclocross bike would be the bike of choice within city limits. It'll get you to and from all these places and would be good enough to ride the dirt as well.

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    If you just moved here and have an out of state ID, I would ride everything you can in forest park and just play dumb when you get yelled at. Should be good for at least a few decent miles=0

  11. #11
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    Forest Park has Trail W which opens up at night with lights Good riding until the rain turns it to a mucky mess...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    Forest Park has Trail W which opens up at night with lights Good riding until the rain turns it to a mucky mess...
    A lit night trail sounds awesome!

  13. #13
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    There should be a sticky in this forum about how bad Portland is towards fellow MTB'ers.

    A 45-60min drive out side of town in any direction and some of the best trails will available for you to shred on! The drive is definitely worth it.

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    is the search this forum button broken?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hack View Post
    is the search this forum button broken?
    Search on this site is a bit funny, I always seem to screw it up the first time. The button is for all the forums, not just this one. I have to remember to go into the advanced search and choose the forum specifically. To add insult to injury, I have to wait 30 seconds between searches.

    Since there really isn't any single track in Portland, a search for it should return nothing

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    Quote Originally Posted by dangdang View Post
    There should be a sticky in this forum about how bad Portland is towards fellow MTB'ers.

    A 45-60min drive out side of town in any direction and some of the best trails will available for you to shred on! The drive is definitely worth it.


    I think a "There is no single track in Portland" sticky would be a deserved black mark on Portland. If that is a bit too much, a Portland Single track sticky with the scant bits listed would work as well.

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    45 MIN. WEST // TILLAMOOK STATE FOREST HWY 6: browns camp, gales creek, story burn, wilson river, sikter lars trails (also Stubb Stewart state park trails, but haven't been yet)
    30 MIN. EAST // COLUMBIA GORGE: Gorge trail 400, Larch mtn. trails
    20 MIN. NW // town of SCAPPOOSE: Scapoose trail network... which are mostly snoresville.

    Also, Powell Butte is worth the drive for singletrack mtb'ing. Forest Park is not worth the drive for MTB'ing, even if you live at 28th and Flanders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdombrow View Post


    I think a "There is no single track in Portland" sticky would be a deserved black mark on Portland. If that is a bit too much, a Portland Single track sticky with the scant bits listed would work as well.
    We use to single track cow trails on Sauvie Island. Not sure if this is still allowed.

  19. #19
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    My search for "Portland Singletrack" on this forum returned 176 results. Of which, I'm guessing, probably about 170 bash on this city's lack of singletrack and cultural hatred towards mountain biking.

    Bdombrow listed everything I know of. I should add that the trails at Powell Butte are illegal when the tread is wet (i.e., right now).

    Unicorns are more common in Portland than real mountain biking. I mean legal mountain biking, Jaybo!

    Quote Originally Posted by applecakes View Post
    A lit night trail sounds awesome!
    Yes ... yes, it does. But now you're talking about finding a purple-and-yellow striped unicorn. Good luck with that.

    What Jaybo is talking about is using your OWN lights to ride the Wildwood trail. Which is not only illegal, but really makes the rest of us look bad if it's rained in the past few weeks, since you WILL leave tire tracks in the puddles. Please don't.
    Last edited by GlowBoy; 09-19-2011 at 02:01 PM.
    "People like GloyBoy are deaf. They are partisan, intellectually lazy & usually very angry." -Jaybo

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    Thanks for clarifying this for me... Sounds awfully dreary.. Maybe it's time to sell the bike :'(

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    Avoiding Wildwood will not make "us" look any better.Go ahead,play fair and enjoy your miles of nothing.What makes people look bad is not riding and getting fat.Those Skinny jeans and little phones don't make anyone look better either.Portland deserves a big black mark when it comes to cycling.Enjoy the green boxes!
    Master of Laundry...Lord of Cleaning!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by applecakes View Post
    Thanks for clarifying this for me... Sounds awfully dreary.. Maybe it's time to sell the bike :'(
    Don't do that. There is still world class mountain biking trails within one-two and three hours of driving. If we give up and sell our mountain bikes, we might as well write off those great trails too since the urban-dwelling part-time hiking enthusiasts that want to turn all into wilderness will have won.

  23. #23
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by applecakes View Post
    Thanks for clarifying this for me... Sounds awfully dreary.. Maybe it's time to sell the bike :'(
    It's really not that bad. (unless you don't have a vehicle, but lots of people carpool!)

    I grew up riding in so-cal and getting to a decent mtb trail was always a good 30-60 minute drive.

    I spent a handfull years in a the midwest... no mountains... just hills. To me, that riding style was rather sub-par no matter how far you drove.

    When I moved back out to the west, the PNW looked like a great idea...The thought of single track right out my back yard... well that didn't happen. However, the trails out here definitely blow any of the so-cal stuff away that I used to ride on.

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    What Snake Muesl said. Yes you will have to drive to the trails, but they are worth it.
    "People like GloyBoy are deaf. They are partisan, intellectually lazy & usually very angry." -Jaybo

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    Quote Originally Posted by dangdang View Post
    However, the trails out here definitely blow any of the so-cal stuff away that I used to ride on.
    Good reminder to me. I also started mountain bike riding in So. Cal. Lots of 30-60 minute drives for the privilege of riding fire roads (single track back in those days was more or less non-existent -- you maybe could find a mile of it in a 20 mile ride). And the fire roads all went pretty much straight up or straight down. So, compared to where I started, Portland isn't so bad. Well, I don't live in Portland anymore and am a 10 minute spin from miles and miles of awesome singletrack and a 30 minute care ride from tons of great riding. But still some good perspective.

  26. #26
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    It's all relative

    Living in Wisconsin I used to drive 20+ minutes to get to something that resembled Powell Butte with slightly longer loop options. We had nothing to ride in town. Powell Butte in the city would have been a godsend. Forest Park may not have much singletrack, but it is still a beautiful place within the city to ride. I actually like riding there in the fog, rain, snow, etc-not for the excitement of the ST of course, but because I can be outside riding all year round without having to use a car. I consider Scappoose local trails, and they are pretty damn good. Overall the riding within town is obviously less than desirable compared to many other places, and the only way that is going to change is to get involved.
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    Yeah, I guess I just need to get used to the idea of driving to a trail... I live in Ashland now, where we have hundreds of miles of singletrack, all spitting out right in town. I'm beginning to realize just how spoiled I have been.

  28. #28
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by bdombrow View Post
    I think a "There is no single track in Portland" sticky would be a deserved black mark on Portland. If that is a bit too much, a Portland Single track sticky with the scant bits listed would work as well.


    gabrielle
    Quote Originally Posted by Impy
    just plain unfriendly and maladjusted.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppa#1 View Post
    ...Portland deserves a big black mark when it comes to cycling...
    Sorry to say I agree with this.

    Let those Portlanders responsible for making Portland a lousy city for mountain biking stand up and be recognized. What, do you want to hide the people who keep mountain biking down? Do you Portland mountain bikers want Portland to change? Don't hide the problem -- shout about it! Shine a light on it! For God sakes call for reinforcements and let the chips fall where they may.

    It's bad. Tell the world. The world is on your side. Let the world help you apply some pressure.

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  30. #30
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    Laughing

    [QUOTE=GlowBoy;8461560]My search for "Portland Singletrack" on this forum returned 176 results. Of which, I'm guessing, probably about 170 bash on this city's lack of singletrack and cultural hatred towards mountain biking.

    Bdombrow listed everything I know of. I should add that the trails at Powell Butte are illegal when the tread is wet (i.e., right now).

    Unicorns are more common in Portland than real mountain biking. I mean legal mountain biking, Jaybo!

    Yes ... yes, it does. But now you're talking about finding a purple-and-yellow striped unicorn. Good luck with that.

    What Jaybo is talking about is using your OWN lights to ride the Wildwood trail. Which is not only illegal, but really makes the rest of us look bad if it's rained in the past few weeks, since you WILL leave tire tracks in the puddles. Please don't.[/QUOT

    Hey, Einstein it was tongue in cheek,. Sorry, in the future I will break down my communication so you can understand it.

  31. #31
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    Okay

    Quote Originally Posted by free-agent View Post
    Living in Wisconsin I used to drive 20+ minutes to get to something that resembled Powell Butte with slightly longer loop options. We had nothing to ride in town. Powell Butte in the city would have been a godsend. Forest Park may not have much singletrack, but it is still a beautiful place within the city to ride. I actually like riding there in the fog, rain, snow, etc-not for the excitement of the ST of course, but because I can be outside riding all year round without having to use a car. I consider Scappoose local trails, and they are pretty damn good. Overall the riding within town is obviously less than desirable compared to many other places, and the only way that is going to change is to get involved.

    It reminds me of the abused wife who says, "This second husband is better. He only beats me on Sunday's and not every day." The riding here sucks tails unless you want to drive at least 45 minutes. End of story.

    Forest Park sucks tail 80% of the time even if all the trails were open to mountain biking because it is a clay mud pit.

    The good news is the riding 45 minutes away is very good.

  32. #32
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    "End of story"

    If you say so.

    It's all subjective and relative, which was the point of my post. You think something sucks, I'm ok with it and am happy to have SOMETHING to ride. We all wish riding everywhere was better-which is why we build new trails, maintain current trails, build pumptracks and dirt jumps with any little piece of land we can find.

    We all wish it were better.

    What are you doing to make it better?
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  33. #33
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    I understand this area is better than Minnesota, Ohio, etc. But, the climate suck 75% of the year, riding places are a long way away, and my favorite hobby is hard to do. We travel a lot and I see places that hammer the crap out of PDX for riding. But I make the best of it.

    What am I doing to make it better? Dreaming of living in place close to riding. I appreciate the efforts put into Sandy Ridge and all that but it is still 50 minutes from my house.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    I understand this area is better than Minnesota, Ohio, etc. But, the climate suck 75% of the year, riding places are a long way away, and my favorite hobby is hard to do. We travel a lot and I see places that hammer the crap out of PDX for riding. But I make the best of it.
    The trails within a couple hours' drive of here might be better than those in Minnesota, but the local-riding situation in Minneapolis is WAYYY better than Portland. There are about a dozen places within the MSP metro area where you can get a decent ride in. In the PDX metro area there are zero.

    If you want to talk about the climate sucking 75% out of the year, that would be Minnesota, not Portland. Compared to what I grew up with in MN, this place's climate is absolute paradise.
    "People like GloyBoy are deaf. They are partisan, intellectually lazy & usually very angry." -Jaybo

  35. #35
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    Yep

    Quote Originally Posted by GlowBoy View Post
    The trails within a couple hours' drive of here might be better than those in Minnesota, but the local-riding situation in Minneapolis is WAYYY better than Portland. There are about a dozen places within the MSP metro area where you can get a decent ride in. In the PDX metro area there are zero.

    If you want to talk about the climate sucking 75% out of the year, that would be Minnesota, not Portland. Compared to what I grew up with in MN, this place's climate is absolute paradise.
    But is sucks tail compared to say St George, Santa Cruz, Sedona, etc. It is all relative...

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by free-agent View Post
    If you say so.

    It's all subjective and relative, which was the point of my post. You think something sucks, I'm ok with it and am happy to have SOMETHING to ride. We all wish riding everywhere was better-which is why we build new trails, maintain current trails, build pumptracks and dirt jumps with any little piece of land we can find.

    We all wish it were better.

    What are you doing to make it better?
    It is just a bit ironic that Portland considers itself such a "cycling" town when Phoenix has great mountain biking and Portland has zero.The work put into Forest Park was an obvious waste of effort.So...other than supporting Sandy Ridge what should "be done".The Parks Dept. waters Front Avenue every morning ,but they can't hear the truth when it comes to the affects of MTB on a trail.Let alone the idea of "enviromental impact" coming from Audubon types that would never make it to the park without driving.This issue has been flogged to death and nothing has changed in 20 plus years.Yeah....I own a second car just so I can go MTB(@5.00$ A GALLON).Here is to the long summer that I think we deserve!Black mark recognition for Portland!
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    But is sucks tail compared to say St George, Santa Cruz, Sedona, etc. It is all relative...
    Move. Please.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdombrow View Post
    There are some trails at Mt. Tabor. It will probably take you longer to get to Mt. Tabor then it will to ride the single track unless you live within 1 block of Mt. Tabor.
    I just went over to Tabor (first time in about 4 months) and noticed that some of the trails now have "No bikes please" signs on them. Anybody know when/why this happened? Was there any discussion/warning with the local bike community?



    Where's my glue...let's make that sticky.

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    just plain unfriendly and maladjusted.
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  39. #39
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    Agree and disagree

    Portland definitely deserves the black mark you mentioned, and I am curious to see how their lack of effort will influence the League of American Bicyclists.
    All of the work put into FP hasn't been a wasted effort at all. It just isn't as simple as "we want it and it isn't harmful for the park so lets build!" The management plan is a huge hurdle that will take time to work with/modify/etc.
    Due to the efforts of everyone involved with FP we will have the first pump track in the metro area. The FP issue forced Parks to come to the table to listen and work with us. While a pump track may seem like a small concession, in this city it is a pretty big step forward. It took MANY people MANY hours to make this happen. Success with it will mean more cred for the mtb community, and more opportunities in the future.
    There is movement in FP as well. It is a bit longwinded for an email, and I would be happy to talk with you about it over a beer at our meeting in Tuesday (or another time/place).
    What can you (and by "you" I mean any mtb'er) do? Start by becoming a member and getting everyone you know to do the same. Our numbers are slowly climbing, but I can't tell you how frustrating it is that we cannot get more people to spend just $30 a year. When we sit down with decision-makers they always ask, how many people do you represent? Numbers really do matter.
    Attend our meetings and find out ways to get involved. The next one is Tuesday at HUB. Do what Frank Selker did. Find a way to get the ear of our politicians. Think outside the box. Start a thread on here to use the collective brainpower of everyone to come up with a great idea rather than ruminate on how bad it is. No one has a silver bullet, and you never know what might work. Representative democracy only works in your favor when you do the work.
    Email political candidates and ask them how they feel about mtb's. Get behind those who do and help get them elected. Email newspapers or magazines and ask them to do a story on the mtb scene in "bike friendly" Portland.
    Of course, all of this takes time and patience. Government moves slowly for a reason. We are a very small user group in the grand scheme of things, so the burden is on us to prove out worth.
    Support mtb'ing in the Portland area, join NWTA with your dollars, hands, and/or voice. nw-trail.org

  40. #40
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    One more thing....

    If anyone really wants to be involved and have a more serious say in the scene, we have Board elections this Dec/Jan. Let me know and I can provide more details. It takes some commitment, but I have learned a tremendous amount being on the Board for the past two years.
    Brian
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    Aren't there an awful lot of 'No Bikes' signs in this "bike-friendly" city. Forest Park can't do anything right, but they sure did waste no time adding these signs next to their trailheads.

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    Agreed, now what....

    are you willing to do to try and affect change? We all agree that FP is lacking in trails for us, but if we just keep banging our heads in a messageboard nothing will change. If we continue to rely on others to make it happen, there is less chance that it will happen (and it will take longer). Advocacy is not a sideline sport.
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    Quote Originally Posted by free-agent View Post
    Portland definitely deserves the black mark you mentioned, and I am curious to see how their lack of effort will influence the League of American Bicyclists.
    I sure would love to see them revoke our Platinum status. No way we deserve that as long as recreational cycling is so strongly discouraged.

    Bicycling magazine sure noticed, though. That's a big chunk of why they let Minneapolis bump us to #2 as most cycling friendly city. And deservedly so. Portland's still a better place to commute overall, but MSP kicks our butt when it comes to mountain biking and long-distance multi-use paths.

    There's still progress being made in bike-friendliness here, but we are in danger of becoming "we're-so-great" smug, which brings complacency. (Believe me, before I moved to Portland I watched this happen in Seattle, a place that IMO is now so full of itself that it's no longer able to seriously face its own problems). Fortunately it seems to me that Portlandia is giving us a much needed tough-love dope slap to remind us we're far from perfect. Maybe someday they'll do a skit on mountain biking. Sorry if the smugness/complacency issue seems a little OT, but I'm really concerned that if we get stuck in that rut, it's going to be really hard to make much progress on mountain biking.
    "People like GloyBoy are deaf. They are partisan, intellectually lazy & usually very angry." -Jaybo

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    Get a Grant or donations or whatever. Buy 100 acres of land somewhere near PDX. Build a ride center. Or find out where all of the Audobon people live and claim eminent domain.

    Tell you guys what. If I win the Powerball tomorrow night I will donate 2 million dollars to procuring land for said ride center. So, lets all keep our fingers crossed.

  45. #45
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    Go there in a week

    Quote Originally Posted by free-agent View Post
    are you willing to do to try and affect change? We all agree that FP is lacking in trails for us, but if we just keep banging our heads in a messageboard nothing will change. If we continue to rely on others to make it happen, there is less chance that it will happen (and it will take longer). Advocacy is not a sideline sport.
    It isn't worth the fight. The area is a mud bath for almost 10 months a year. I mean a sticky, mucky mess! The area has some areas with mud all freaking summer. No way the Friends of Forest Park group is going to lets us riding in their park. The see that toxic dump as a holly ground of 'at risk ecosystem.' Do you remember the trail that was built and how the news freaking out saying it was going to cost 80K to fix. It was laughable an sad. A story like that never gets any legs in most other cities. Portland prides itself in being weird and lives up to that mantra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    It isn't worth the fight. The area is a mud bath for almost 10 months a year. I mean a sticky, mucky mess! The area has some areas with mud all freaking summer. No way the Friends of Forest Park group is going to lets us riding in their park. The see that toxic dump as a holly ground of 'at risk ecosystem.' Do you remember the trail that was built and how the news freaking out saying it was going to cost 80K to fix. It was laughable an sad. A story like that never gets any legs in most other cities. Portland prides itself in being weird and lives up to that mantra.
    So true Jaybo.

    Until the MTB advocates are larger in voice and number than the ones are are keeping us out of the city parks, there is no way that any significant trails will be open there. Right now there simply is not enough MTBing folks in Portland in all to make changes with this city. We need a MTBing mayor, then we can move forward.

  47. #47
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    Sorry to agree with all of the depressing views ,but Zander,etc...and the "friends" will never relent.I will drive at least 3-4 hrs. total tomorrow so I can ride my bike.Yea!!!Been commuting for 15 years,but I have to clean the tree droppings off the windshield and drive to ride.One green box is = how much singletrack?Pump track is nice,but I have at least one friend that has that in his b-yard.Plus,I think of Tabor as one large pumptrack already.
    Master of Laundry...Lord of Cleaning!

  48. #48
    Metalheadbikerider
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    Exactly.

    They have more money, more political power, arguments that appeal to emotion, and bigger numbers. What do we have? Age, logic, and manual labor. We have to work harder than them, or else nothing will happen. We cannot continue to be apathetic and claim a "right" to ride anywhere. I don't see the point in continuing to voice the belief that "Portland sucks for mtb'ers." It's defeatist. We all know the mtb scene sucks within PDX. It is getting better. There is momentum. Lets see some creative thinking and action. Get involved.
    Support mtb'ing in the Portland area, join NWTA with your dollars, hands, and/or voice. nw-trail.org

  49. #49
    Daniel the Dog
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    Free Agent: Life really doesn't start and stop with mountain biking in Portland. It isn't a religious movement. I am concerned about the long-term viability of mountain biking as trails are closed but if we went this progressive, weird place we are going to get wacko's imposing their will on our recreation.

    I almost shed a tear when a motorcycle rode up next to me on the Slickrock Trail in Moab. Now, there is some tolerance and freedom! Portland is the further city in the world when it comes to tolerance and allowing folks to live lives as they see fit. You had better believe what they believe or they will insult you and call you intolerant. You are fighting a toxic culture to try and get mountain biking trails in Forest Park. This intolerance is woven right into the culture of this awful city.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by free-agent View Post
    Portland definitely deserves the black mark you mentioned, and I am curious to see how their lack of effort will influence the League of American Bicyclists.
    All of the work put into FP hasn't been a wasted effort at all. It just isn't as simple as "we want it and it isn't harmful for the park so lets build!" The management plan is a huge hurdle that will take time to work with/modify/etc.
    Due to the efforts of everyone involved with FP we will have the first pump track in the metro area. The FP issue forced Parks to come to the table to listen and work with us. While a pump track may seem like a small concession, in this city it is a pretty big step forward. It took MANY people MANY hours to make this happen. Success with it will mean more cred for the mtb community, and more opportunities in the future.
    There is movement in FP as well. It is a bit longwinded for an email, and I would be happy to talk with you about it over a beer at our meeting in Tuesday (or another time/place).
    What can you (and by "you" I mean any mtb'er) do? Start by becoming a member and getting everyone you know to do the same. Our numbers are slowly climbing, but I can't tell you how frustrating it is that we cannot get more people to spend just $30 a year. When we sit down with decision-makers they always ask, how many people do you represent? Numbers really do matter.
    Attend our meetings and find out ways to get involved. The next one is Tuesday at HUB. Do what Frank Selker did. Find a way to get the ear of our politicians. Think outside the box. Start a thread on here to use the collective brainpower of everyone to come up with a great idea rather than ruminate on how bad it is. No one has a silver bullet, and you never know what might work. Representative democracy only works in your favor when you do the work.
    Email political candidates and ask them how they feel about mtb's. Get behind those who do and help get them elected. Email newspapers or magazines and ask them to do a story on the mtb scene in "bike friendly" Portland.
    Of course, all of this takes time and patience. Government moves slowly for a reason. We are a very small user group in the grand scheme of things, so the burden is on us to prove out worth.
    Word. The numbers help if nothing else to help "us" be better recognized as a community as a whole or to be a larger voice that would all like to see more opportunities for mtb'ing within the city limits like other thriving cities have and have been succesfull with implenting amongst other user groups as well.

    Forest Park is a tough one, but continuing to lay on the pressure can very well open up more opportunities instead of just giving up and letting the city and other large groups run things how they want to. Large groups with the same voice/message can make a difference eventually if continuing to show persistence and effort. "They" (Audobaun Society, FOFP, Sierra Club, etc) want us to give up and continue to be discouraged by this. I have lived here for over 35yrs and have noticed in the last few years especially, that things are gradually and slowly opening up a bit more for riding. Obviously not to where we are content with at this time, but I think strides in the right direction has been made in large part by NWTA's stance and presence and such individuals devoting their time to this just because it is very important to them ("walking the talk") that I am very grateful and appreciative of. There has been progress made, even though it may not be where we all want to be at this present time, but the cogs are still turning and will continue to slowly and gradually get better if more people are able to recognize this and support NWTA as the cities/regions large voice. I think NWTA and it's devoted members rule! Thanks.
    Ride On!

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