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  1. #1
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    New COTA signage at Phils... hmmmm

    Does it make anybody else feel like they are driving on the freeway with the big neon signs for road crossing and car crossing points??? I love the new vertical signs, they are great looking. But, call me negative... those neon signs are too much. Almost something Bend Park and Rec would do.

    I think COTA does an awesome job and this is not me bashing them in anyway... just asking what others think about the neon signs.

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    They feel out of place but those are intersections riders blow through all the time.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    They feel out of place but those are intersections riders blow through all the time.
    Signs won't change that.

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    Anyone have a picture?

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    New COTA signage at Phils... hmmmm-cotasigns.jpg

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by shugarbear View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	cotasigns.jpg 
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    Good looking signs!! Finishing Phil's tomorrow. Just completed Marvin's today. We have multiple folks working on the signs.
    Phil's Trail Steward for COTA
    http://www.cotamtb.com
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  7. #7
    Nat
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    Those signs do not offend me. They seem subtle yet noticeable albeit not readable unless you almost stop.

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    From what I understand, the pictures do not show the sign that is potentially offensive. Apparently that sign is located at forest service road crossings. I also think the signs from the pictures look great. Those new sign-posts are awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpryIP View Post
    Apparently that sign is located at forest service road crossings.
    They are similar to the Y sign above but they are bright yellow which draws attention to the upcoming intersection.

  10. #10
    Nat
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    If the FS road intersection signs are very bright and obvious, that's probably a good thing.

  11. #11
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    I agree. If they prevent even one collision they are worth having.

  12. #12
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    Are the road xing signs the same as the ones on the Kiwa Butte and Dinah Moe Humm trails? If so, they are not offensive at all, IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    Are the road xing signs the same as the ones on the Kiwa Butte and Dinah Moe Humm trails? If so, they are not offensive at all, IMO.
    Same yes.

    The question is whether EVERY forest road needs a sign. roads on Kiwa and DMH/Tiddly are hard to see. You go around a tree and suddenly there is a road. Sign good!

    But in Phil's if you see a road from 30 feet away and have good sight lines, is a sign really needed?

    I think that's the question.

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    The answer to that question is probably "yes". I say that because of the large number of people visiting the trails each year that are not aware of the motorized traffic on those fire roads. Its easy to feel like you are in the middle of the forest and forget that trucks are out there.

  15. #15
    scn
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    I have a question. At the intersections of roads, is there an additional sign to warn vehicle traffic of potential bicycle cross traffic? I think the signs for bikers are beneficial especially for someone not as familiar with the trails, like myself and a 4-year old rider who understands stopping at street intersections. A sign may provide him a little more understanding of different trail/road uses in the woods. I also think that people driving the roads might like a heads up to watch for trail users.

    On a different note (sorry to hi-jack) any suggestions for an out-and-back, or shortish loop starting from Phil's trail head for a competent 4 year old trail rider who will need a little help on the uphills? I have ridden most of the trails but it's been a while since I was on Phil's, Ben's, Kent's, etc. I can tow him for a while but if there is one that is more consistently a descending grade for the way back, I know he would like it more. Thanks in advance!

  16. #16
    Nat
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    If nothing else it could be a CYA move. That way if a rider gets into an accident with a vehicle then they (and their lawyer) can't claim that it should have been marked.

    Back in Arizona there was this one trail network that was mostly built and maintained by one man. Well, a teenage boy was riding out there, crashed and broke his collarbone, and his mom wanted to sue the man who built and maintained the trail. This anecdote really has nothing to do with our trail network other than the fact that a lot of people are quick to blame others for their mishaps.

  17. #17
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by scn View Post
    It the intersections of roads, is there an additional sign to warn vehicle traffic of potential bicycle cross traffic?
    It wouldn't matter if there were because those people don't know how to read.

    Calm down, I'm just kidding.


    Quote Originally Posted by scn View Post
    On a different note (sorry to hi-jack) any suggestions for an out-and-back, or shortish loop starting from Phil's trail head for a competent 4 year old trail rider who will need a little help on the uphills? I have ridden most of the trails but it's been a while since I was on Phil's, Ben's, Kent's, etc. I can tow him for a while but if there is one that is more consistently a descending grade for the way back, I know he would like it more. Thanks in advance!
    For a 4-year-old I think Phil's trail to the orange chicken (could be any color right now though last week it was black skull and cross bones) and back is good. Kids like to play on the chicken mound, and there's also a shortcut down the fire road in case you want to shorten the ride back. Otherwise, Kent' s trail is good.

  18. #18
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    ORS 105.682 - Liabilities of owner of land used by public for recreational purposes, gardening, woodcutting or harvest of special forest products - 2011 Oregon Revised Statutes

    (1) Except as provided by subsection (2) of this section, and subject to the provisions of ORS 105.688 (Applicability of immunities from liability for owner of land), an owner of land is not liable in contract or tort for any personal injury, death or property damage that arises out of the use of the land for recreational purposes, gardening, woodcutting or the harvest of special forest products when the owner of land either directly or indirectly permits any person to use the land for recreational purposes, gardening, woodcutting or the harvest of special forest products. The limitation on liability provided by this section applies if the principal purpose for entry upon the land is for recreational purposes, gardening, woodcutting or the harvest of special forest products, and is not affected if the injury, death or damage occurs while the person entering land is engaging in activities other than the use of the land for recreational purposes, gardening, woodcutting or the harvest of special forest products.

    (2) This section does not limit the liability of an owner of land for intentional injury or damage to a person coming onto land for recreational purposes, gardening, woodcutting or the harvest of special forest products. [1995 c.456 3; 2009 c.532 4]

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    If nothing else it could be a CYA move. That way if a rider gets into an accident with a vehicle then they (and their lawyer) can't claim that it should have been marked.

    Back in Arizona there was this one trail network that was mostly built and maintained by one man. Well, a teenage boy was riding out there, crashed and broke his collarbone, and his mom wanted to sue the man who built and maintained the trail. This anecdote really has nothing to do with our trail network other than the fact that a lot of people are quick to blame others for their mishaps.
    Excellent point Nat. The signs are necessary at the road crossings. There is no way we are going to make everyone 100% happy. The more frequent riders on our trails will hardly even notice the new signs. Most blend in nicely. We are working to be as minimally invasive as possible. I will be out there today to finish Phil's from the first road crossing to the Helipad. A couple of folks stopped me yesterday to thank us for the signage. Overall, I think it is highly positive. There may be some fine tuning down the road with the road crossing signs as well as our "tree hugger" signs. It is all about being effective and making the experience of mountain biking in Bend a great one for "all" riders.

    Cheers!
    Phil's Trail Steward for COTA
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    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
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  20. #20
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    Signs are awesome was out there yesterday.

    Only problem I have, is jealousy for new riders, learning the trails. Took me 3 years to figure out where the hell I was going with the wrong direction pointing stupid numbered posts!!!
    Bend, Oregon

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    Overall, I think it is highly positive.
    Agreed, although I do think we missed an excellent opportunity to educate riders on 'right of way' which is not mentioned in the new signs.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    Agreed, although I do think we missed an excellent opportunity to educate riders on 'right of way' which is not mentioned in the new signs.
    A small % of the vertical tree huggers have the ROW listed. Granted nobody will ever see it unless they stop and read all 6 stickers...

  23. #23
    scn
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    For a 4-year-old I think Phil's trail to the orange chicken (could be any color right now though last week it was black skull and cross bones) and back is good. Kids like to play on the chicken mound, and there's also a shortcut down the fire road in case you want to shorten the ride back. Otherwise, Kent' s trail is good.[/QUOTE]

    Thanks very much. I think one of those options should be great. It will be Friday mid morning also, so hopefully that will mean less of me having to instruct him to give people some room.

  24. #24
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    New COTA signage at Phils... hmmmm-trail-love.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by sketchbook View Post
    A small % of the vertical tree huggers have the ROW listed. Granted nobody will ever see it unless they stop and read all 6 stickers...
    Phil's Trail Steward for COTA
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  25. #25
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    I have not noticed any stickers with the ROW on it. Why isn't it on this sticker at GS?

    New COTA signage at Phils... hmmmm-gs.jpg

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