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  1. #1
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    Lawsuit filed against USFS for Timberline decision...

    Environmental groups sue to stop mountain bike 'skills park' at Mount Hood's Timberline ski area | OregonLive.com

    Next time one of those folks on the street asks me to donate to Sierra Club...

  2. #2
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    Sad. The South side of mount hood looks like Ass in the summer. Wildflowers? ugh

  3. #3
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    ...and those are some of the groups we as mountain bikers are being forced to deal with. I heard someone down here say the suit is about looking at the truth...but when they talk about wildflowers & the roads projects it's clear the truth can't be seen anywhere near that lawsuit.

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    We don't fund education and health care, but we will stop the mountain bike at any cost. Hate people, they are wrong! Truth? The older I get, the weirder "it" becomes.
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    Just a step in the process. NEPA suits happen all the time in these situations and they can be won.

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    Just build the bike park and it will create so much revenue that the lawsuits will just be a drop in the bucket. Once the groups see that the bike park does wonders for the mt. hood economy maybe they wont have any power for such lawsuits.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by finch6013 View Post
    Just build the bike park and it will create so much revenue that the lawsuits will just be a drop in the bucket. Once the groups see that the bike park does wonders for the mt. hood economy maybe they wont have any power for such lawsuits.
    The idea that a mountain bike park will enhance the limited local economy near Timberline is 100% speculation.
    Any group that has the words "Friends of" in the title are immediately recognizable as Portland residents who feel they are better qualified to determine what is best for communities in which they do not live in order to preserve their weekend activities.
    Portland area mountain bikers should check out the long up and down history of Snow Summit Bike Park, a similar situation to this one.
    Even if the bike park is built, I believe the lawsuits and fighting between the two sides will continue.

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    This probably won't be the last hurdle. These anti-MTB, self righteous yuppies will probably file a couple more lawsuits. They probably are well aware that they are just stalling and wasting timberlines resources, but the timberline people knew what they were getting into and seem pretty determined. Before all is said and done I'm pretty confident there will be lift assisted downhill at timberline.

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    Lawsuit filed against USFS for Timberline decision...

    Quote Originally Posted by ronbo613 View Post
    The idea that a mountain bike park will enhance the limited local economy near Timberline is 100% speculation.
    I assume that you are kidding with us.

    I live in the local area and know of a large number if local jobs it will create for the two year build cycle, and at least one new bicycle shop that could be opened because of the projected influx of bikers, plus the people to run the lift for the bikes, bike rental store at TLine, the restaurants (need more people), staff to work in the trails, and "bike patrol" (maybe that's a volunteer position).

    The vast majority of people that work those jobs live in government camp, welches, and sandy. Aka, the local economy.
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    Even if timberline were a fraction of what whistler is it would bring jobs, business opportunities, and money to the local and surrounding area. All those riders need to eat, maintain bikes, and have somewhere to sleep if they are traveling. I see it becoming a destination that will bring more users to many other trails in Oregon as well.

  11. #11
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    I assume that you are kidding with us.

    I live in the local area and know of a large number if local jobs it will create for the two year build cycle, and at least one new bicycle shop that could be opened because of the projected influx of bikers, plus the people to run the lift for the bikes, bike rental store at TLine, the restaurants (need more people), staff to work in the trails, and "bike patrol" (maybe that's a volunteer position).
    Well, no, I'm not kidding.
    What "projected influx of bikers" are you speaking of? Do you have some specific numbers, and from what source? Employees at the rental shop and lift operators? How many minimum wage jobs is that? What will a bike park do for the summer economy that the ski and snowboard camps haven't done?
    I respect your views, but stating that something is going to happen without facts or figures is what's called speculation. I'm not saying that everything you say won't happen, but at this point it's more like your opinion of what will happen.

    I see it becoming a destination that will bring more users to many other trails in Oregon as well.
    Of course you do. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion, even without facts to back it up.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by thrasher_s View Post
    This probably won't be the last hurdle. These anti-MTB, self righteous yuppies will probably file a couple more lawsuits. They probably are well aware that they are just stalling and wasting timberlines resources, but the timberline people knew what they were getting into and seem pretty determined. Before all is said and done I'm pretty confident there will be lift assisted downhill at timberline.
    Just to be a bit nit picky - yuppies = young urban professional (I.e. 20's to early 30's). :^) The folks behind these suits are far older and have much deeper, more ingrained views. They see The mountain as a special place that is being over used, over logged, over skied, over snow mobiled, etc. Not saying that I agree with them re the bike park, but we need to get past dismissing them as just being self righteous. We need to fully understand their perspective and address it. Too many times projects on public lands have been fast tracked to all of our detriments. They feel this is just another example. Personally, I don't think it has been fast tracked and think Timberline and Forestry have done a great job on impact assessment.

    We all want the park, but it is everyone's land, so they do have the right to a voice. Simply dismissing them as enemy's isn't going to help the process, but will prolong it. Also, remember, without strong willed environmentalists, we wouldn't have the protections we have today. Again, I don't agree with them on this issue and think they will ultimately lose, but I'd rather have folks that care than abundant passivity.

  13. #13
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    Kind of unfortunate that this lawsuit = lawyers making money off people who like playing in the woods who have different opinions about who gets to play in the woods.

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    Quote Originally Posted by juanmon View Post
    Kind of unfortunate that this lawsuit = lawyers making money off people who like playing in the woods who have different opinions about who gets to play in the woods.
    Typical Shakesperean attorney jab. This is not about attorneys making money. The attorneys did not get the ball rolling on this. The waste of time and money is on the Sierra Club and others like "BARKLESS". I am fortunate in that I get to grill the "BARK" canvassers that take up space in the Pearl on a regular basis. Pathetic is what it comes down too. BIKEPORTLAND CERTAINLY DOES NOT HELP!!! DO YOU HEAR ME JONATHAN?
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronbo613 View Post
    The idea that a mountain bike park will enhance the limited local economy near Timberline is 100% speculation.
    Really? Mountain bikers eat and drink. They need replacement parts. They need gasoline to get home. The park will require employees. Will they be be high paying jobs? Not all of them. They will be Summer jobs for young adults who need money for college, as well as jobs for those who may be unemployed.

    BikePortland.org Blog Archive Research: Mountain biking boosts rural Oregon economies
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  16. #16
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    It might be speculation but it's logical speculation. Bike park numbers are on the increase in the U.S., which means there is demand. With demand comes $$. You can find the facts you are looking for with some research. Here is a website to peruse for a list of parks to get started: MTBparks | Your Mountain Bike Park Guide
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  17. #17
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    "Uppies" then.

    I absolutely agree that Mt Hood is a wonderful place that needs to be protected, but whenever I try to have a discussion with one of these people they have an "anti everything except what I want to do attitude" and scoff at the very possibility of a sustainably built MTB trail.

    The last guy I spoke with suggested that paved roads/sidewalks/paths were "MORE than sufficient for cyclists" (imagine a self righteous tone). I asked him if he would still hike the pacific crest trail if it was paved. Judging from his response he clearly couldn't see my point of view.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronbo613 View Post
    Well, no, I'm not kidding.
    What "projected influx of bikers" are you speaking of? Do you have some specific numbers, and from what source? Employees at the rental shop and lift operators? How many minimum wage jobs is that? What will a bike park do for the summer economy that the ski and snowboard camps haven't done?
    Have you ever been to a bike park? Whistler? Mammoth? Northstar? Do you think Timberline would do this if it would not draw riders? Do you think they have not done feasibility studies? Call them if you want to see studies.

    Sheesh, the panties in a bunch XC crowd is nearly as big a bunch of haters as the enviro nuts.
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  19. #19
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    Lawsuit filed against USFS for Timberline decision...

    Oregon is an amazing place to live and ride with many options for mountain bikers. A thoughtfully built bike park on Mt Hood will only make it better. The opposing parties act like it's not also in Timberlines best interest to preserve the mountain.

    I love Mt Hood and want my future children and their children to be able to enjoy it year round as much as I do. I wouldn't have written my letter in favor of the bike park if I thought the park would result in damage that would ruin the mountain for future generations.

    My friends and I will be taking our good times and money to Whistler this year. I would've rather spent that time in my lovely home state of Oregon but I'm not going to complain about getting to ride Whistler!
    I smile because I have no idea what's going on.

  20. #20
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  21. #21
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    Here is what Roosevlet had to say in dedicating Timberline Lodge...

    Roosevelt address at Timberline Lodge

    This screams recreation to me.
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Giggity View Post
    Sheesh, the panties in a bunch XC crowd is nearly as big a bunch of haters as the enviro nuts.
    Totally unnecessary sentence to end your post with and from reading your posts over the years, a bit out of character.

    Ronbo has an opinion just as each of us on this forum do. Really all I see in his posts is a question as to what are the economic benefits expected to be for the Mt. Hood area from a Timberline bike park. If anyone has a link to Timberline's studies it would be great to see what they estimate. I suspect that there are many, myself included, on this forum that have never been to one of the premier gravity riding oriented destinations. Without that experience I have no basis to expect what the boost to the Mt Hood area economy.

    While I hope that Timberline is allowed to build, I have concerns that other trails may be petitioned to be made off-limits to riding. The anti riding groups will use the "mt bikers have their exclusive area to use, they don't need this trail anymore" argument.

  23. #23
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    I think Teddy would have handled the Sierra Club without too many struggles. I bet he would have been a "sturdy" mountain biker as well. Nothing quite like a big stick!
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  24. #24
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    You're way off base!!

    DJ Giggity has always been a grumpy jackass!
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppa#1 View Post
    I think Teddy would have handled the Sierra Club without too many struggles. I bet he would have been a "sturdy" mountain biker as well. Nothing quite like a big stick!
    You've got your Roosevelts mixed up!

    Teddy was the sturdy, physical exercise promotoing rough rider, "speak softly and carry a big stick". Franklin was the wheelchair bound, new deal, "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself" and all that.

    You could say that both Roosevelts probably did a lot to benefit mountain biking though. Teddy with setting aside millions of acres as national forests, and FDR through all the Civilian Conservation Corps and WPA infrastructure projects on federal lands (including trails, roads, campgrounds and Timberline Lodge).

    Not sure about Teddy handling the Sierra club, being that he was supposedly friends with Sierra club founder John Muir and all. But, I bet he would have been pro mountain biker if not a rider himself. Or at least a lot more reasonable about it than today's Sierra Club which seems to be infested by a bunch of self-righteous urban, wanna be environmentalist D-bags.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    Here is what Roosevlet had to say in dedicating Timberline Lodge...

    Roosevelt address at Timberline Lodge

    This screams recreation to me.
    Good find! Some great quotes from FDR in there that should be used in arguments against this lawsuit.

    Like:

    "The people of the United States are singularly fortunate in having such great areas of the outdoors in the permanent possession of the people themselves - permanently available for many different forms of use."

    "Last but not least, our National Forests will provide constantly increasing opportunity for recreational use."

    "Those who will follow us to Timberline Lodge on their holidays and vacations will represent the enjoyment of new opportunities for play in every season of the year."

    "So, I take very great pleasure in dedicating this Lodge, not only as a new adjunct of our National Forests, but also as a place to play for generations of Americans in the days to come."

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by twd953 View Post
    You've got your Roosevelts mixed up!

    Teddy was the sturdy, physical exercise promotoing rough rider, "speak softly and carry a big stick". Franklin was the wheelchair bound, new deal, "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself" and all that.

    You could say that both Roosevelts probably did a lot to benefit mountain biking though. Teddy with setting aside millions of acres as national forests, and FDR through all the Civilian Conservation Corps and WPA infrastructure projects on federal lands (including trails, roads, campgrounds and Timberline Lodge).

    Not sure about Teddy handling the Sierra club, being that he was supposedly friends with Sierra club founder John Muir and all. But, I bet he would have been pro mountain biker if not a rider himself. Or at least a lot more reasonable about it than today's Sierra Club which seems to be infested by a bunch of self-righteous urban, wanna be environmentalist D-bags.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by twd953 View Post
    You've got your Roosevelts mixed up!


    Not sure about Teddy handling the Sierra club, being that he was supposedly friends with Sierra club founder John Muir and all. But, I bet he would have been pro mountain biker if not a rider himself. Or at least a lot more reasonable about it than today's Sierra Club which seems to be infested by a bunch of self-righteous urban, wanna be environmentalist D-bags.
    C'mon now boys....lets not drag Muir's name through the mud here. Make no mistake about it Muir would have been an absolute animal on a bike. I can all but guarantee he has been turning over in his grave since at least the late 60's as to what the Sierra Club morphed into.

    Seems absurd to me that the MHNF can be logged but a MTN bike park is what brings big money lawsuits.

    In my opinion the "locals" should be extremely careful what they wish for regarding more "business". I know of no mountain town on earth that wasn't absolutely ruined when money showed up.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by B42 View Post
    I assume that you are kidding with us.

    I live in the local area and know of a large number if local jobs it will create for the two year build cycle, and at least one new bicycle shop that could be opened because of the projected influx of bikers, plus the people to run the lift for the bikes, bike rental store at TLine, the restaurants (need more people), staff to work in the trails, and "bike patrol" (maybe that's a volunteer position).

    The vast majority of people that work those jobs live in government camp, welches, and sandy. Aka, the local economy.
    You're making too much sense, stop it.

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    Sierra club? Oh ya, one of those college professor lookin guys in an REI costume that knocks on your door at dinner time asking for a handout.

    He always gets the same kind brush off I use on those white shirt pairs of fake cyclists with the lost look in their eyes.

    As long as wilderness areas are off limits to bikes, and hopefully horses someday, there also need to be dedicated areas for bike riding located near highways and facilities this type of rider depends upon for their chosen activity. Timberline seems to fit this perfectly. Some people exist to create obstacles, drama, tension and challenges for others though and this seems to be a good example of that sickness in action.

  31. #31
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    Has the construction area melted yet? Will the build be held up during the lawsuit?
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  32. #32
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    Partially and no there will not be.
    Voice your support for Timberline Bike Park
    http://www.timberlinelodge.com/mountainbike/

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronbo613 View Post
    Well, no, I'm not kidding.
    What "projected influx of bikers" are you speaking of? Do you have some specific numbers, and from what source? Employees at the rental shop and lift operators? How many minimum wage jobs is that? What will a bike park do for the summer economy that the ski and snowboard camps haven't done?
    I respect your views, but stating that something is going to happen without facts or figures is what's called speculation. I'm not saying that everything you say won't happen, but at this point it's more like your opinion of what will happen.


    Of course you do. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion, even without facts to back it up.
    Again, this is more speculation; but in Crosby Minnesota where they opened up the Cuyuna Country IMBA bronze level ride center a few years ago, it has surpassed all expectations and brought in far more business than even the most optimistic supporters thought it would....and Cuyuna has no chair lifts. The communities surrounding Cuyuna have completely bought in to being a mountain bike destination and it seems everybody is happy.

  34. #34
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    Necropost....Was curious if there were any updates on this and ran across the link below. Don't know the validity of it, but it sounds promising. Any legal type people with more experience reading these types of documents want to chime in?

    https://scholar.google.com/scholar_c...=6,38&as_vis=1

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    Cliff notes, for the people that don't want to read the above link. If I read that document correctly it looks like the Timberline Bike Park is a go!

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    I thought it was pretty cool that the report itself states that contrary to the plaintiffs belief that the trails would critically increase sedimentation in the run off area - the project would actually help to stabilize the sediment, and that that the trail build efforts would actually be an improvement.

  37. #37
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    I was at Lumberyard the other day and noticed a poster up for a Timberline Bike Park. No dates listed, though.

  38. #38
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    Any news on the park?


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    Bump! The family and I are moving up to the PDX area from SoCal in a few months (don't worry, wife is from the area so we are not the typical SoCal emigrants!). I'm really hoping this thing happens within my lifetime!


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    Nothing personal, but the Portland's "popularity" has turned a nice place into a congested $hit hole. Boise...people should move there. It's nothing but skinny, rolled up jeans and beards that do not fit the owners. Too many people here.
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    Oh, my bad...our family will change our plans completely...thanks


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    (Make Portland great again!)


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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppa#1 View Post
    ......Portland's "popularity" has turned a nice place into a congested $hit hole.
    +1 on this^

    PDX area is rapidly catching up to the septic tank that is the Seattle/Puget Sound area.
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppa#1 View Post
    Nothing personal, but the Portland's "popularity" has turned a nice place into a congested $hit hole. Boise...people should move there. It's nothing but skinny, rolled up jeans and beards that do not fit the owners. Too many people here.
    I blame Fred Armisen.
    Need to get out of this place before I follow the next d-bag home that tailgaits, passes on the right, then cuts me off & slams on their brakes home to break their fuggin legs.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirsam84 View Post
    Oh, my bad...our family will change our plans completely...thanks


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    You're going to fit right in.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  46. #46
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    Reminds me of a popular bumper sticker from when I was growing up in San Diego in the 70's.

    Welcome to San Diego! Now Go Home.

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    I saw a banner ad for timberline the other day with bike park type photos. Clicked on it to see what was up and it had zero info about biking. I guess the ad worked...


    I'm guessing they are going to keep it as low key as possible to avoid backlash.


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  48. #48
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    Welcome to Portland. We definitely need as many mountain bikers as possible. Portland is still a kick ass place, it just desperately needs a paradigm shift when it comes to mountain bikers. I am confident that it is happening, albeit slow as hell. Let us know when you get here and don't hesitate to reach out with questions.
    Support mtb'ing in the Portland area, join NWTA with your dollars, hands, and/or voice. nw-trail.org

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by free-agent View Post
    Welcome to Portland. We definitely need as many mountain bikers as possible. Portland is still a kick ass place, it just desperately needs a paradigm shift when it comes to mountain bikers. I am confident that it is happening, albeit slow as hell. Let us know when you get here and don't hesitate to reach out with questions.
    Thank you...mighty neighborly of you I will be working in Vancouver so likely will be living on that side of the river, mostly for the lack of state income tax!

    Hoping that Gateway Green and maybe that project north of Forest Park will help tip momentum in our direction a little, but it does seem like inertia is against us!


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  50. #50
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    If you are on that side you have quicker access to a couple of the better trails in the area, Thrillium and Cold Creek. Thrillium is a trail with some bigger features that most people shuttle with DH bikes, though trail bikes will work too. Cold Creek is a great trail, as well.
    Cheers!
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    Last Post: 01-14-2012, 04:42 PM

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