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  1. #1
    Afric Pepperbird
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    Do cougars attack large, moving objects like us?

    So I was reading this article about a cougar being seen near C.O.D. trail last week, when I thought to myself, "would a cougar really attack someone who looks big, on a big bike, moving at a high rate of speed?"

    Now, I've never encountered a big cat, but I have a hard time believing I'd be attacked while cruising along. Maybe if I stopped to 'shake the dew off of my lily' I'd be worried, but not while riding.

    Do bikers pedaling at a nice rate really seem like moving prey? I have a tendency to think not. Please confirm my sense of well being.

  2. #2
    Nat
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    The Anne Hjelle case back in 2004 had her riding at 15mph, so you're hosed!
    http://www.railriders.com/blog/2010/...n-lion-attack/

  3. #3
    Afric Pepperbird
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    I don't wanna be disemboweled

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer
    I don't wanna be disemboweled
    Better stick to the bars.

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  5. #5
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    it was my understanding that the quick and silent movement triggers their auto-chase instinct which is not a judgment/risk thing, just a reaction. i thought that was the rational behind the guidline to not "not run" if having an encounter. like a shark tasting a surfer, its a behavior move that we, in their environment, get the short end of the stick on...

  6. #6
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    Yes, they do attack large moving objects like us. No, it won't happen to you.

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    . . . I still like my chances against the cougars and bears rather than the cars I encounter on my daily commute.

  8. #8
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    They eat deer, elk, etc. Why not a cyclist?

    I think about this mostly when I'm on a ride by myself, during the climb. ...When my breathing is labored and my movement slow, I wonder how the local wildlife interpret. Some rides, I tend to avoid riding by myself just in case. I saw a black bear on 3corner rock a couple years back, so that's a trail I'd like to have a riding partner on, among others. ;-)

  9. #9
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    From the link above, this is key:
    Coss “found that people who stood still avoided injury only 26 percent of the time. Cougars may view your lack of fight as a sign of vulnerability. Of people who backed away, 39 percent survived unscathed. And of those who booked it, 50 percent escaped without a scratch. In cases where two or more individuals happened upon a mountain lion and booked it, the fastest runner among the two or more escaped without injury 100 percent of the time.”

    Always ride with someone slower than you.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by strader
    From the link above, this is key:
    Coss “found that people who stood still avoided injury only 26 percent of the time. Cougars may view your lack of fight as a sign of vulnerability. Of people who backed away, 39 percent survived unscathed. And of those who booked it, 50 percent escaped without a scratch. In cases where two or more individuals happened upon a mountain lion and booked it, the fastest runner among the two or more escaped without injury 100 percent of the time.”

    Always ride with someone slower than you.
    This....

  11. #11
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    Here is an article for ya.
    08 February, 2001. Seattle resident, Jon Nostdal, 52, was attacked at about 9:30 p.m. by a cougar as he rode his bicycle from where he had dinner in Port Alice, British Columbia, on northern Vancouver Island, back to where his tugboat was moored near the town's pulp mill. Nostdal was less than 2 miles (about 3 kilometers) from town when he heard clicking sounds. He thought something was loose in his backpack, but when the clicking sound gradually became louder, Nostdal sensed that something was approaching from behind. Before he could turn around, the cougar jumped him and bit the bunched-up hood of his captain's coat, knocking him to the ground. He realized the noise had been the cat's paws on the pavement. Nostdal fought the cat for what seemed like a few minutes before passerby Elliot Cole, 39, saw the struggle on his way home from the mill. The cougar was behind Nostdal, chewing on his neck, with its claws gripping his head and chest. Cole stopped his truck, yelled at the cat, attacked it with a heavy bag, and then began punching the cougar in the head. But the cougar would not release Nostdal, so he used Nostdal's bicycle and was able to pin the cat with it and free him. He told Nostdal to flee to his truck and "smoked the cougar one more time" with his fist, bouncing the cat's head on the pavement. Then he also ran to his truck and climbed inside. The cougar refused to leave. Only when Cole pulled out to take Nostdal to the hospital, did the cat run out from under the truck and disappear.

    Nostdal was hospitalized at Port Alice Hospital, where he was treated for bites on his head and several lacerations to his face. RCMP Constable Randy Freeborn said wildlife officials believe the cougar was one injured several days previously by a car. It may have been the same one that had confronted a local resident recently and killed several pets. On February 23, a Port Alice resident shot a cougar suspected of being the cat, which attacked Nostdal. Sources: (The Globe and Mail; Canadian Press; 02/09/2001) (Vancouver Sun; Doug Ward; 02/10/2001) (Canada NewsWire; Campbell River Couple Survives Cougar Attack)
    Road bikers are at risk too!
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  12. #12
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    I think it's usually the sick ones that look at us as easy prey, which we pretty much are I would say.

    My 6'5" brother was riding his un-corked loud 300lb XR650R motorcycle, and saw something out of the corner of his eye. Looked back, and there was a cougar taking a swipe at him and missed. He's guessing he was cruising at about 30mph. The day before someone on a moto had there jacket ripped while riding. Rangers went out hunting for it asap.
    Bend, Oregon

  13. #13
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    Well it looks like its time to break out the hockey goalies mask, and chainmail turtleneck!
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    I've thought about taking my .45 with me when I am out in the middle of nowhere, but really if it's a cougar after you, teeth in your throat will be the first thing you know I'm guessing. Chainmail on the neck and a full face helmet is sounding good!
    Bend, Oregon

  15. #15
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    As already mentioned, bikers have been preyed upon by cougars quite a few times, with a lot of the incidents happening in SoCal.

    Chances are, most of us have already been watched and passed over by kitties quite a few times already. And like thuren said, your chance of seeing or hearing the attack coming is pretty close to zero. I might be a lot more concerned about cougars than bears, but I also know that I'm many times more likely to die in a car accident driving to a trailhead than in a cougar attack on the trail. The risk is real but very small, and not worth staying home over IMO.
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  16. #16
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    I believe they will...

    I regularly ride with a cougar. She is in her mid 50's and I have occasionally seen her stock the young studs that roll up on the trail. She definitely prefers the young strong types over the older guys with the beer guts.

    And I'm pretty sure you wont out run her, she's pretty fast on the trail.
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan
    I regularly ride with a cougar. She is in her mid 50's and I have occasionally seen her stock the young studs that roll up on the trail. She definitely prefers the young strong types over the older guys with the beer guts.

    And I'm pretty sure you wont out run her, she's pretty fast on the trail.

    I was waiting for things to go this way.....

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mophile
    I was waiting for things to go this way.....
    What makes it really funny...What I said isn't to far from the truth.
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

  19. #19
    Daniel the Dog
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    Golden Retriever

    I see a Golden Retriever on the trail every time I go riding. She is red and has been known to chase a squirrel. You get killed by a cougar just know it is your time to go....fight like a mother and kiss your butt goodbye. They go for the neck and bite like a pit bull on steroids. I'm more worried about Meth addicts cruising the woods looking for a mark.

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  21. #21
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    First of all a wounded or sick cat is completely unpredictable. Just hope you don't run into one. Secondly, cougars preffer to kill by puncturing the cranium not strangulation. The majority of cat wounds are bite marks on the top and back of the head. Also related claw marks on face, neck and upper body. Due to the structure of the human scull a cougar can't kill by puncturing the brain. That is why most cat attackson humans end up as maulings vs kills.

    Wear a helmet and chain mail and you will be fine.
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  22. #22
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  23. #23
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    I once read a statistic that said, for every time you've seen a cougar; a cougar has seen you 8 times...
    And yes, you will most likely never hear it coming. They allmost allways attack from behind.
    As far as cougars not being able to puncture the skull and kill a human; I'd beg to differ.

    Looks to me like this little guy would also disagree!
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  24. #24
    Afric Pepperbird
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    Was anyone else a tad disappointed when they learned that this photo, which went viral last year, was photoshopped? I thought it was great.



    By the way, I'd love to see one on the trail, from a safe distance. Nat's post about a biker being disemboweled notwithstanding.

  25. #25
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by NastyNick View Post
    I once read a statistic that said, for every time you've seen a cougar; a cougar has seen you 8 times...
    And yes, you will most likely never hear it coming. They allmost allways attack from behind.
    As far as cougars not being able to puncture the skull and kill a human; I'd beg to differ.

    Looks to me like this little guy would also disagree!
    That pic can't be real. That thing is the size of the sabertooth tiger!

  26. #26
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    I agree, that cat is the size of a tiger, not a cougar.
    "People like GloyBoy are deaf. They are partisan, intellectually lazy & usually very angry." -Jaybo

  27. #27
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    That pic can't be real. That thing is the size of the sabertooth tiger!
    Yes, that does look a little unrealistic.

    By the way, I'd love to see one on the trail, from a safe distance.
    I've only seen one; a medium sized(35-45lbs.) cat that jumped out of the woods on the trail and ran in front of me for about twenty yards. It was getting dark and the animals tend to start moving around at dusk or a little before. I'm sure there are plenty of them around, bears as well. You can see bears fairly regularly, seeing a cougar is uncommon.

  28. #28
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    Cats and dogs on the trail, what's the difference? Just say no in a firm but non aggressive voice and carry some treats with you. They respond well to food. Or maybe give it a blast of water from your water bottle. Cats totally hate getting wet! If you get bit it's probably because you are not a cat person and don't know how to act around unleashed cats.
     
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ride_nw View Post
    Cats and dogs on the trail, what's the difference? Just say no in a firm but non aggressive voice and carry some treats with you. They respond well to food. Or maybe give it a blast of water from your water bottle. Cats totally hate getting wet! If you get bit it's probably because you are not a cat person and don't know how to act around unleashed cats.
    I LOL'd.

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  30. #30
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    That picture's not fake, per se. The hunter is just kneeling several feet back from the cat, and the picture was made with a wide angle lens, which makes near objects seem bigger, relative to distant objects. The photo also plays with our expectations: we'd expect that guy to be kneeling right next to and holding the cat's head up. Instead, he's sitting several feet back, which makes the cat look ginormous.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by NastyNick View Post
    snip
    As far as cougars not being able to puncture the skull and kill a human; I'd beg to differ.
    I got it strait from a research biologist on large predators. We were tracking a radio collared deer that was killed by a cougar. Most fatalities due to cat wounds are from secondary wounds not cranial punctures.

    When I was 8 I had an adault lynx approach me. I was cleaning trout on the side of a creek in a wilderness area in MT. It ate all four of my trout then decided it wanted some attention from me. it climbed into my lap and started to very painfully knead my leg. I tried to stop it and it just dug in until I started petting it. Nothing like multiple hypodermic needles in your leg to wake you up. After a while it got board and wandered off. I told my uncle about it and he was very impressed. He said I was very lucky to see it and even luckier it didn't seriously hurt me.

    Wild cats are cool, just don't piss one off.
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  32. #32
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fly Rod View Post
    I got it strait from a research biologist on large predators. We were tracking a radio collared deer that was killed by a cougar. Most fatalities due to cat wounds are from secondary wounds not cranial punctures.

    When I was 8 I had an adault lynx approach me. I was cleaning trout on the side of a creek in a wilderness area in MT. It ate all four of my trout then decided it wanted some attention from me. it climbed into my lap and started to very painfully knead my leg. I tried to stop it and it just dug in until I started petting it. Nothing like multiple hypodermic needles in your leg to wake you up. After a while it got board and wandered off. I told my uncle about it and he was very impressed. He said I was very lucky to see it and even luckier it didn't seriously hurt me.

    Wild cats are cool, just don't piss one off.
    Whoa! Sick!!!

  33. #33
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    Wow. That is an epic story.

  34. #34
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    That picture is probably real. I ran over one last summer near Moab. It was sitting by the side of the road like a deer and then charged the car. It went under the bronco and we felt a couple blips. It was huge. We kept on saying that it was as big as an African Lion. It was unreal
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  35. #35
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilovemtnbiking View Post
    That picture is probably real. I ran over one last summer near Moab. It was sitting by the side of the road like a deer and then charged the car. It went under the bronco and we felt a couple blips. It was huge. We kept on saying that it was as big as an African Lion. It was unreal
    You took pics, right?

  36. #36
    Daniel the Dog
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    That is nothing

    A while back I had a cougar come at me. I grabbed it by the scruff and shook it threw times and said, "Bad cat!" It ran up a tree.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    A while back I had a cougar come at me. I grabbed it by the scruff and shook it threw times and said, "Bad cat!" It ran up a tree.
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  38. #38
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    One time I was riding a cougar through a blizzard but it died of exposure so I used my lightsaber to cut it open and sleep inside.

  39. #39
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    I can't top the lightsaber story, but my dad sees them regularly in his back yard. He says they eat the cat food that he leaves outside on the porch (he also has a semi stray cat that he feeds but that's another story). Last time I was visiting I made sure to hang out near the back window during the evenings in hopes that I would catch a glimpse. Let me tell you those cats are no joke, I wouldn't say it was the size of an african lion but pretty close. I got some footage on my iphone, it's a little shaky, quite frankly I was a bit scared with nothing but a screen door between us. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
     
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  40. #40
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by ride_nw View Post
    Ha ha, very funny.

  41. #41
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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Do cougars attack large, moving objects like us?-cougar-bar-pickup.jpg  


  42. #42
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    <iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/O5gldxTmLsQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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    Fighting a bear

    <iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/z2XUgE6g7XU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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  44. #44
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  45. #45
    Afric Pepperbird
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    The near awesome-ness of this story, is that I was riding on Mrazek, yesterday afternoon!!!! I bet this bugger saw me ride by:

    http://www.ktvz.com/news/28265129/detail.html

    I have this odd sense that I'm seen by a big cat on at least 50% of my rides.

  46. #46
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    The near awesome-ness of this story, is that I was riding on Mrazek, yesterday afternoon!!!! I bet this bugger saw me ride by:

    http://www.ktvz.com/news/28265129/detail.html

    I have this odd sense that I'm seen by a big cat on at least 50% of my rides.
    Wahhhhhhhhh! Hot pee in the chamois!

    How many reported sightings does that make so far this year? Half a dozen? I wonder if there have been more sightings down low because there's so much snow up high and the deer (and other prey animals) have been staying down low?
    Last edited by Nat; 06-17-2011 at 01:17 AM.

  47. #47
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    Interesting! As we headed up to toward Storm King I said to my buddy, I wonder how many coyotes, bear and cougar had seen us ride by. The trails were great by the way! Thanks COTA
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  48. #48
    Daniel the Dog
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    How do you get a video of a cougar attacking skier? Think about it.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    That pic can't be real. That thing is the size of the sabertooth tiger!
    Photo could be real. Just have to line it up well, with the man 5-10 feet behind the cat.
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  50. #50
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    http://www.bclocalnews.com/kootenay_...116144334.html

    I believe they can get that big. Spent the winter in Rossland BC and this story generated a lot of interest with back country skiers.
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    Bear sighting on Jedi

    It was last Tuesday at the end of the Jedi, on the dirt road just before you drop into the Onion Mtn trail. It was about 30 yards up from the yellow gate, and I was the same distance in front of the gate. It was ambling away from me, so I did the rational thing and tried to get closer. It heard me, stopped, watched me as I tried to get my phone out for a photo op, and then ducked off the road into the underbrush. I got a great photo of the underbrush.

  52. #52
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    Consider that you're not always spinning fast and proud with your chest feathers puffed... if you're sweating, grunting, and slowly working your way up a grueling climb you could very well seem like an incredibly weakened, tasty treat.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by dontomas View Post
    It was last Tuesday at the end of the Jedi, on the dirt road just before you drop into the Onion Mtn trail. It was about 30 yards up from the yellow gate, and I was the same distance in front of the gate. It was ambling away from me, so I did the rational thing and tried to get closer. It heard me, stopped, watched me as I tried to get my phone out for a photo op, and then ducked off the road into the underbrush. I got a great photo of the underbrush.
    Bears are a dime a dozen, especially near the Gorge. They are afraid of their own shadows.

    I might, however, have just a tad bit of anal leakage (anyone remember Olestra??) if I saw a big cat. Scary!

  54. #54
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    I for one think it would be an absolute privilege to see a big cat in the wild. I have seen just about very animal known to man in N America except for sasquatch and a Mountain Lion. I have come upon fresh kills, fresh scat, and even some dens but have never had the privilege of seeing one. I also think it would be far less pucker factor than crossing paths with a grizzly in the middle of nowhere.

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    Its always good to pack heat when your in the bush. I am a avid fisherman, spending lots of time on remote rivers with a high cat population. They say the average full grown cat can kill 50 elk a year. They are extremely smart predators.

    You will never see a cougar stalking you from behind..

    I got a stainless SW 9mm with Hollow jackets just for this reason.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by DShore View Post
    Its always good to pack heat when your in the bush. I am a avid fisherman, spending lots of time on remote rivers with a high cat population. They say the average full grown cat can kill 50 elk a year. They are extremely smart predators.

    You will never see a cougar stalking you from behind..

    I got a stainless SW 9mm with Hollow jackets just for this reason.
    Wouldn't you be safer just cowering in your closet or basement? Seems cheaper than buying "heat", no? And the cat wouldn't have to pay the ultimate price.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by DShore View Post
    Its always good to pack heat when your in the bush. I am a avid fisherman, spending lots of time on remote rivers with a high cat population. They say the average full grown cat can kill 50 elk a year. They are extremely smart predators.

    You will never see a cougar stalking you from behind..

    I got a stainless SW 9mm with Hollow jackets just for this reason.
    How ya gonna shoot what you never see? Just say'n.
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  58. #58
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    Say you run into a wild ferocious dog, cougar, and you turn the other way and continue to get followed, all out chase ensues.. Heat can save your life. Ive been chased by wild dogs in VA off the Appalachian trail, and on a quad in treacherous terrain in baja, mexico.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DShore View Post
    Say you run into a wild ferocious dog, cougar, and you turn the other way and continue to get followed, all out chase ensues.. Heat can save your life. Ive been chased by wild dogs in VA off the Appalachian trail, and on a quad in treacherous terrain in baja, mexico.
    I'm sorry, you're in the wrong state.

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    The wife had a face to face with a very large cat last weekend. She was @ 1mile into her run in the watershed. She rounded a corner and came to a sudden stop 20' from a 6' cat. She said they both stood there looking at each other for quite a while. She was just thinking how beautiful it was when it crouched down like it was going to attack. She started waving her arms, yelling and walking backwards. The cat started creeping towards her so she started spraying pepper spray. She didn't hit the cat and it still kept coming at her as she was backing up. It finally got a hit of the pepper spray and took off.

    I don't care if you want to see a cat and feel like it shouldn't be harmed. Any 6' cat that shows that kind of aggression is going to be a problem for someone. My wife got lucky she had the pepper spray. Another woman running that trail may not be so lucky.

    I carry a firearm or bow and a cougar tag when I am in that area. If I see that cat I will kill it if I can get a clean shot. FWIW, the ODFW biologist I spoke with recommended that action for an aggressive cat.
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    Wow.. What a story...

    Prime example of why its smart to carry heat in the Bush.. I fish on 2 large private ranches on the Oregon coast and was warned by landowners that I was a fool for fishing solo without heat.. In this case there is a 160-180lb Cat roaming both ranches..

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    fish, hunt, carry heat, or ride your bike!
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    I have a bit of a question, if you're carrying pepper spray, horn or even a gun, where do you keep it? I can't help but feel I would need very quick access to that if a situation arose. If I have it in my pack with my other stuff, I have to get my pack off and unzipped, etc to get it out to use.

    Is it more of just, better to have with you than not, regardless?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fly Rod View Post
    The wife had a face to face with a very large cat last weekend. She was @ 1mile into her run in the watershed. She rounded a corner and came to a sudden stop 20' from a 6' cat.
    You mean the Bend Watershed, like in the Flagline area? The way I climb, I am sure I look like a wounded animal of some sort. Hmmm ... never really had an interest in being on the evening news, especially postmortem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gnome de plume View Post
    You mean the Bend Watershed, like in the Flagline area? The way I climb, I am sure I look like a wounded animal of some sort. Hmmm ... never really had an interest in being on the evening news, especially postmortem.
    No, sorry I should have been more specific. She was on FS 2060 in the Ashland watershed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcanride View Post
    fish, hunt, carry heat, or ride your bike!
    Actually I do all of the above often at the same time. Just because I ride a bike does not mean I can't enjoy other activities as well. One of the benefits of getting older is knowing that joy can be found in many forms as well as single forms.
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    Think you guys are getting a little carried away here? You have a better chance of getting struck by lightning twice in a row then winning the lottery then getting struck twice more on the way to collect your money than you do even seeing a cougar much less being bitten by one. The irrational fear ever more present in our society is pathetic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big JC View Post
    Think you guys are getting a little carried away here? You have a better chance of getting struck by lightning twice in a row then winning the lottery then getting struck twice more on the way to collect your money than you do even seeing a cougar much less being bitten by one. The irrational fear ever more present in our society is pathetic.
    What difference do odds make if you're the woman who came face to face with an aggressive 6' cat? Odds meant (and mean) nothing to her, nor would they have meant anything to you or me if we'd been in her place. Situation is not pathetic. If you don't want to pack heat, then don't. Responsible people packing heat don't threaten you. In fact you don't ever know who they are or how often you're amongst them. It's not like they're brandishing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big JC View Post
    Think you guys are getting a little carried away here? You have a better chance of getting struck by lightning twice in a row then winning the lottery then getting struck twice more on the way to collect your money than you do even seeing a cougar much less being bitten by one. The irrational fear ever more present in our society is pathetic.
    Carried away? That is a laugh! Irrational fear? Ask my wife if her fear was irrational. No, that cat would have been on her if she had not had her pepper spray. I have also had face to face encounters with bear at very early morning hours. Because I was prepared, armed, I could focus on getting out of the situation no matter how the animal acted. If you are in the woods as much as our family is, it is a matter of when it will happen, not if.

    FWIW,

    I for one carry an air compressor, spare belts, hoses and parts in my truck. Am I paranoid? No, I am prepared. I have saved more peoples tails by being prepared than my own. When a fellow off roader is broken down 60 miles from no where because his front brake caliper bolts loosened and were lost did he call me pathetic when I handed him replacement bolts? Nope, he and his wife thanked me profusely.

    Just remind me that I am paranoid when you need help on the trail. I'll leave you to your own devices...

    Ps: I have also had a wild albino Canadian Lynx steal my trout then climb in my lap for some loving. I have also been touched by lightning. So what are my odds now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    What difference do odds make if you're the woman who came face to face with an aggressive 6' cat? Odds meant (and mean) nothing to her, nor would they have meant anything to you or me if we'd been in her place. Situation is not pathetic. If you don't want to pack heat, then don't. Responsible people packing heat don't threaten you. In fact you don't ever know who they are or how often you're amongst them. It's not like they're brandishing.

    --sParty
    While we don't truly know the circumstances of the woman/pepper spray encounter, I would say odds do have a very real impact on the world we live in and the decisions we make. And I suspect your no exception to this. I grew up hunting and fishing and have zero issues with guns. I have infact even ridden with people "packing heat" due to packs of ferrell dogs in Jim Thorpe Pennsylvania. I have also spent lots of time in close proximity to bears and wolves backpacking in Alaska armed with only my wits and knowledge of the animals. I think it is a bad idea to scare people and sent them outdoors with a fire arm in place of common sense and knowledge of their environment. What scares me is the guy who thinks he saw a cougar and empties his gun in it's direction after reading this forum. Pathetic was a strong word...maybe unfortunate would have been more appropriate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fly Rod View Post

    FWIW,

    I for one carry an air compressor, spare belts, hoses and parts in my truck. Am I paranoid?
    No but your analogy is! I think there is a pill for that

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    I rode in the woods on the east side and the west side for years, never had any issues. Question for me is - how in the heck are you gonna get your heat out when a cat has its jaws fixed on your skull? Ridic. A knife would be more handy, and you prob wouldn't shoot yourself in the process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmountain View Post
    I have a bit of a question, if you're carrying pepper spray, horn or even a gun, where do you keep it? I can't help but feel I would need very quick access to that if a situation arose. If I have it in my pack with my other stuff, I have to get my pack off and unzipped, etc to get it out to use.

    Is it more of just, better to have with you than not, regardless?
    When dealing with bears, and I suspect cougars are similar, those items are useless unless they can be accessed instantaneously. Most true bear attacks, as opposed to posturing and bluff charges, happen within less than a couple of seconds of coming into contact with a bear and often before you are even aware the bear is there. If you are going to carry, pick up a shoulder harness, which will keep the gun or pepper spray close but out of the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big JC View Post
    ... I would say odds do have a very real impact on the world we live in and the decisions we make. And I suspect your no exception to this. ...
    I may be an exception to the odds... hope not... the future will tell. Fly Rod's wife was an exception to the odds. Odds only matter in a 'general population' sort of way, not to the specific individuals who are on the wrong side of percentages.

    Quote Originally Posted by big JC View Post
    ... I think it is a bad idea to scare people and sent them outdoors with a fire arm in place of common sense and knowledge of their environment. What scares me is the guy who thinks he saw a cougar and empties his gun in it's direction after reading this forum. ...
    Don't think I implied this was a good idea in my post above. I'm certainly not advocating it. I hope you're not drawing the conclusion that I'm as stupid as the person you describe.

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    The "ODDS" thing is funny. Take the entire population and tally that up with cougar sightings? Does the entire population comb the woods every other day?

    Like aircraft crashes... I fly on an airliner once every couple years. If someone is on one every other day, their odds are higher than mine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by big JC View Post
    Think you guys are getting a little carried away here? You have a better chance of getting struck by lightning twice in a row then winning the lottery then getting struck twice more on the way to collect your money than you do even seeing a cougar much less being bitten by one. The irrational fear ever more present in our society is pathetic.
    Depends on circumstances and training. I do not carry when riding in Oregon, but I understand there are those that do. On the other hand, I was raised in rural Alaska and have spent thousands of hours working in dense bear country. I do carry a gun (12ga or ti .44, depending on circumstances) in bear country. I've never used it, but I did narrowly avoid a serious mauling attack about ten years ago and would have shot the bear if I had the gun instead of my partner who flubbed it and came within about 1 foot of the attack(long story). Still, I wouldnt recommend one to someone who doesn't know what they are doing. I also have little tolerance for the trigger happy types and appreciate it when they get cited. Bottom line--it's a perfectly reasonable precaution for the right people in the right circumstances.

  77. #77
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    Is it totally annoying to carry a gun on you while biking? I can barely stand having my keys in my pocket or a camelbak on my back, so having a heavy firearm would certainly irritate me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Is it totally annoying to carry a gun on you while biking? I can barely stand having my keys in my pocket or a camelbak on my back, so having a heavy firearm would certainly irritate me.
    Taurus and S&W make shockingly light weight titanium revolvers in a variety of calibers. They can be easily carried in a shoulder harness that puts them on your chest or on the side of your ribs. It's about as annoying as a camelback. Personally I've never felt the need for one in Oregon, but that's how I carry in AK bear country.

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    All I read was something about "heat in the bush".mmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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    Quote Originally Posted by big JC View Post
    What scares me is the guy who thinks he saw a cougar and empties his gun in it's direction after reading this forum. Pathetic was a strong word...maybe unfortunate would have been more appropriate.
    You and I both agree on the subject of that fool/idiot. That is one of the many reasons I converted to bow hunting. But then any fool who shoots a gun without knowing his target and backstop should not be carrying a gun. Let that fool/idiot carry pepper spray.

    There is no stopping fools and idiots from harming others regardless of what is posted up here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Is it totally annoying to carry a gun on you while biking? I can barely stand having my keys in my pocket or a camelbak on my back, so having a heavy firearm would certainly irritate me.
    It depends on what and how you choose to carry. My 13 oz 357 is so light it does not impact my activities in any way. But it is not a gun for those with soft hands! You must practice with any defensive weapon to be effective!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Don't think I implied this was a good idea in my post above. I'm certainly not advocating it. I hope you're not drawing the conclusion that I'm as stupid as the person you describe.
    Not implying either. I've read many of your posts and don't conclude that your stupid. Your posts also inform me that there are plenty of stupid people on these forums and even more in society at large. For every scary cougar attack or "almost attacked" there are ten scary stories of stupid people doing stupid ***** with guns that they carry for "protection" against "wild animals". Two that come easily to mind in Oregon are the guy who unloaded 5 rifle rounds into the bushes because he thought he heard a cougar. Turns out it was the guy one camp site over taking a piss, unfortunately he took two bullets to the neck and one to the head yet lived. The other is of the 14 year old kid who shot and killed some poor lady on a hike because he thought she was a bear. The latter happened just last year. While I agree 100% that there are appropriate times to pack heat for protection do we really need to encourage mountain bikers to carry in the fear they might be attacked by a cougar in Oregon? An event that has never ever happened to my knowledge. On the subject of "odds" if more mountain bikers head out on the trail with guns the odds that something stupid will happen go significantly up.

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sparticus
    Don't think I implied this was a good idea in my post above. I'm certainly not advocating it. I hope you're not drawing the conclusion that I'm as stupid as the person you describe.



    Not implying either. I've read many of your posts and don't conclude that your stupid. Your posts also inform me that there are plenty of stupid people on these forums and even more in society at large. For every scary cougar attack or "almost attacked" there are ten scary stories of stupid people doing stupid ***** with guns that they carry for "protection" against "wild animals". Two that come easily to mind in Oregon are the guy who unloaded 5 rifle rounds into the bushes because he thought he heard a cougar. Turns out it was the guy one camp site over taking a piss, unfortunately he took two bullets to the neck and one to the head yet lived. The other is of the 14 year old kid who shot and killed some poor lady on a hike because he thought she was a bear. The latter happened just last year. While I agree 100% that there are appropriate times to pack heat for protection do we really need to encourage mountain bikers to carry in the fear they might be attacked by a cougar in Oregon? An event that has never ever happened to my knowledge. On the subject of "odds" if more mountain bikers head out on the trail with guns the odds that something stupid will happen go significantly up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big JC View Post
    Not implying either. I've read many of your posts and don't conclude that your stupid. Your posts also inform me that there are plenty of stupid people on these forums and even more in society at large. For every scary cougar attack or "almost attacked" there are ten scary stories of stupid people doing stupid ***** with guns that they carry for "protection" against "wild animals". Two that come easily to mind in Oregon are the guy who unloaded 5 rifle rounds into the bushes because he thought he heard a cougar. Turns out it was the guy one camp site over taking a piss, unfortunately he took two bullets to the neck and one to the head yet lived. The other is of the 14 year old kid who shot and killed some poor lady on a hike because he thought she was a bear. The latter happened just last year. While I agree 100% that there are appropriate times to pack heat for protection do we really need to encourage mountain bikers to carry in the fear they might be attacked by a cougar in Oregon? An event that has never ever happened to my knowledge. On the subject of "odds" if more mountain bikers head out on the trail with guns the odds that something stupid will happen go significantly up.
    IIRC, both of those cases were hunters, not people carrying for protection. You can read the reports in the State Police bulletins on line. (neither one of the parties involved mentioned reading about xyz on a forum either.)

    Just so we are clear, I agree that there are some people who should not carry firearms. My wife is one of those people. That is why she carries pepper spray.

    Those of us who take on the responsibility to carry a firearm full time are usually the ones who take firearms very seriously. I personally practice with every firearm I carry on a regular basis. There is far more to responsible firearms handling than most people really know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fly Rod View Post
    IIRC, both of those cases were hunters, not people carrying for protection. You can read the reports in the State Police bulletins on line. (neither one of the parties involved mentioned reading about xyz on a forum either.)

    Just so we are clear, I agree that there are some people who should not carry firearms. My wife is one of those people. That is why she carries pepper spray.

    Those of us who take on the responsibility to carry a firearm full time are usually the ones who take firearms very seriously. I personally practice with every firearm I carry on a regular basis. There is far more to responsible firearms handling than most people really know.

    I agree 100% with everything you said here, but I'll play devils advocate for the sake of dialogue. First we don't know who read what where or what influenced their decision making. The guy who thought he was shooting at a cougar was not hunting he was camping and drunk. The boy who thought he shot the bear lady was hunting yes, but for deer. Don't know about you, but deer look very different than bears and bears look very different than people. Doesn't it stand to reason that a hunter would have more gun training than the person who thinks he needs a gun for protection against cougars while mountain biking in Oregon.

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    Moving to Bend next week and Wild animals do scare me a little , but people with firearms scare me to death!! I have a hand gun but would never consider packing it with me while riding. Now doing some backwoods camping/hiking thats a different story. I'm usually alone with my dog.I totally agree being familiar with your weapons is key also guns don't kill, people do!! Also its not that easy to get a concealed weapons permit in the state of Oregon. Many hoops have to be jumped through(which isn't a bad thing) Now Idaho thats a different story!! WildWest right there!! lol Cheers !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlive465 View Post
    Moving to Bend next week and Wild animals do scare me a little , but people with firearms scare me to death!!
    Bend must be about the safest place on earth for both concerns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Bend must be about the safest place on earth for both concerns.
    Agreed, especially the wild animal part. In all my years riding in Bend, all I've ever seen are about 10 total coyotes; several mule deer; and a blue grouse.

    I wonder why there are no black bears here? If you look at a map of their range, the central Cascades are pretty much the only part of the state without them. Odd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    Agreed, especially the wild animal part. In all my years riding in Bend, all I've ever seen are about 10 total coyotes; several mule deer; and a blue grouse.

    I wonder why there are no black bears here? If you look at a map of their range, the central Cascades are pretty much the only part of the state without them. Odd.
    I wouldn't mind the bears. Guns are fun when used in the right place and safely, not near trails. Sometimes you can hear shooting arpund Phil's. Not good....
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    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    I wouldn't mind the bears. Guns are fun when used in the right place and safely, not near trails. Sometimes you can hear shooting arpund Phil's. Not good....
    The two shooting ranges I've seen in Phil's are pretty well bunkered, so the chances of a bullet escaping seem pretty slim. Even if a bullet did escape it'd have to get through a lot of trees before it got to any bike routes. I wouldn't worry about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    The two shooting ranges I've seen in Phil's are pretty well bunkered, so the chances of a bullet escaping seem pretty slim. Even if a bullet did escape it'd have to get through a lot of trees before it got to any bike routes. I wouldn't worry about it.
    Nothing wrong with the ranges, but the Budweisered-up hunters doing their best Elmer Fudd impersonations is another matter entirely!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    The two shooting ranges I've seen in Phil's are pretty well bunkered, so the chances of a bullet escaping seem pretty slim. Even if a bullet did escape it'd have to get through a lot of trees before it got to any bike routes. I wouldn't worry about it.
    Agreed Nat. I personally have shot at the range by Conklin Road. It is really well bunkered!!! Agree with DF about the drunk hunters!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    Nothing wrong with the ranges, but the Budweisered-up hunters doing their best Elmer Fudd impersonations is another matter entirely!
    Hopefully the "drunk hunter" is mostly stereotype. The hunters I've known were pretty responsible people and knew enough to not drink and shoot (or shoot near a major biking/hiking trail).

    "Person who just got a gun recently and didn't bother to learn about gun safety" is a bigger concern.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Hopefully the "drunk hunter" is mostly stereotype. The hunters I've known were pretty responsible people and knew enough to not drink and shoot (or shoot near a major biking/hiking trail).

    "Person who just got a gun recently and didn't bother to learn about gun safety" is a bigger concern.
    I agree that it is a convenient stereotype for non hunters to cling to. I stopped at the park where my kids were having a play date with 4 other families on my way home from elk camp. I was flat out exhausted from putting in 16 hour days in the mountains. I said hello to the moms and told my wife I was exhausted and just wanted to see them. Another mom says "Too much drinking in elk camp, typical." I just smiled at her and said "it is hard to drink too much after spending 16 hours covering 5,000 vertical feet in the mountains. The only thing we saw after hunting was dinner and a sleeping bag."

    I may be on the opposite extreme but I don't think I have ever run into a hunter in the field, not driving a road, with a beer in his hand. But then in the last 6 years of hunting where I hunt I have only run into 2 other hunters.
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    Somehow I don't think any real hunter would go hunting in Phil's triangle.

    A person shooting a gun in the woods isn't necessarily a hunter any more than a person who rides a mountain bike across a parking lot is a mountain biker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Somehow I don't think any real hunter would go hunting in Phil's triangle.

    A person shooting a gun in the woods isn't necessarily a hunter any more than a person who rides a mountain bike across a parking lot is a mountain biker.
    I hear Willem is running a secret meth lab "in the canyon". Could be his guns a blazin' you hear.

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    speaking of hunting, etc., 3 elk ran across my path as I was heading up Flagline Tie today. Made me wonder what got them so excited. Thought maybe some other riders, but I saw no one. Then, of course, I thought of this thread and cougars. Little hard to focus on the trail for a while, but that was the last wildlife I saw.
    BTW, when does hunting season start up there? Do I need to get myself a blaze orange jersey soon?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gnome de plume View Post
    speaking of hunting, etc., 3 elk ran across my path as I was heading up Flagline Tie today. Made me wonder what got them so excited
    Maybe the sound of you biking?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    I hear Willem is running a secret meth lab "in the canyon". Could be his guns a blazin' you hear.
    Great source of CASH!!!
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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnome de plume View Post
    BTW, when does hunting season start up there? Do I need to get myself a blaze orange jersey soon?
    Bow season is currently underway

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    Maybe the sound of you biking?
    I don't think so. They were in full flight as I was approaching and were running right to left not away. Could have been anything that spooked them, but blood thirsty cougar makes a much better story -- 'course then I probably would have seen the cat too. Rabid squirrel?

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