Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 90
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    8

    COTA board, secret meetings, one way trails. No member input allowed

    Hi everyone,
    it is a sad day when you find out that the board of your favorite trail advocacy club is becoming insular and myopic. The Central Oregon Trail Alliance Board believes that they can make major changes to the flow of the trail network via "One Way Trails" without a vote by members.

    One way trails might be understandable if there had already been a long education process, signage at the trailheads, or uphill climbing routes installed. But none of this has happened. Instead they have held meetings with USFS to plan a demonstration project of two to three trails that will become one way.

    Bens Trail would become uphill only.
    Phil's Trail and Canyon would be downhill only.
    Kent's Trail would become either uphill or downhill only.

    There is a reason this has been kept on the down low. Nobody is going to like it.

    This decision is in direct violation of the COTA mission statement of "no net loss of trails". For every trail you make one way you lose that same distance the other way.

    Don't get me wrong I love COTA! I think many great things have been done to grow our trail network and for that I am forever grateful.

    However, the board needs to take a good long look at the backlash that will come from making trails one way in the Phil's Trial area. Consider your options gentlemen you really don't want this much bad press.
    Last edited by Respectthetrails; 03-16-2014 at 05:08 PM. Reason: Typo

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    55
    Woa. Bad idea. Really bad idea.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jjMarS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    124
    Perhaps [us locals & trail advocates] need to start a petition against the implementation of [one-way] trails within Phil's Complex? I'd sign it in a heart beat....JeffSP said it all.....REALLY BAD IDEA!!
    jjMarS

  4. #4
    Keep Singletrack Single
    Reputation: willem3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,147
    Quote Originally Posted by Respectthetrails View Post
    Hi everyone,
    it is a sad day when you find out that the board of your favorite trail advocacy club is becoming insular and myopic. The Central Oregon Trail Alliance Board believes that they can make major changes to the flow of the trail network via "One Way Trails" without a vote by members.

    One way trails might be understandable if there had already been a long education process, signage at the trailheads, or uphill climbing routes installed. But none of this has happened. Instead they have held meetings with USFS to plan a demonstration project of two to three trails that will become one way.

    Bens Trail would become uphill only.
    Phil's Trail and Canyon would be downhill only.
    Kent's Trail would become either uphill or downhill only.

    There is a reason this has been kept on the down low. Nobody is going to like it.

    This decision is in direct violation of the COTA mission statement of "no net loss of trails". For every trail you make one way you lose that same distance the other way.

    Don't get me wrong I love COTA! I think many great things have been done to grow our trail network and for that I am forever grateful.

    However, the board needs to take a good long look at the backlash that will come from making trails one way in the Phil's Trial area. Consider your options gentlemen you really don't want this much bad press.
    Not just Gentlemen...ladies too. I am proudly part of this committee. The vast majority of people will "love it", once they try it. First, another premier MTB destination, Fruita, Colorado just went to directional trails, second Whoops is already one-way, third, we have designated climbing routes in Wanoga, & fourth, we would rather take this approach than having the Forest Service take the option out of our hands due to a serious accident.

    No doubt there will be vigorous debate here and in other forums. So far, the feedback I have personally received has been super positive. You may recall a "Right of Way Rant" thread on this forum last year. That thread provided tons of feedback and information for us.

    For the rest, I will let a COTA board member address your other points.

    Cheers!!
    Support Bend Trails
    http://bendtrails.org
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  5. #5
    Keep Singletrack Single
    Reputation: willem3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,147
    Quote Originally Posted by jjMarS View Post
    Perhaps [us locals & trail advocates] need to start a petition against the implementation of [one-way] trails within Phil's Complex? I'd sign it in a heart beat....JeffSP said it all.....REALLY BAD IDEA!!
    Why? Provide more detail to your argument.
    Support Bend Trails
    http://bendtrails.org
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jjMarS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    124
    I understand the need for some trails to flow one-way due to high-speed DH (e.g. ODP, South Fork, etc) and perhaps the idea to foster trail integrity by uphill only (e.g. North Fork), but why take away our agency/freedom within Phil's complex. MTB is an inherently dangerous sport, and I support safe riding, but there's nothing remotely dangerous w/i Phil's complex that should require DH ~or~ UH travel only; IMO. With that being said, I could see the Canyon as DH only...and I'd support that....but Ben's and Kent's.....come on!!
    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    Why? Provide more detail to your argument.
    jjMarS

  7. #7
    Keep Singletrack Single
    Reputation: willem3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,147
    Quote Originally Posted by jjMarS View Post
    I understand the need for some trails to flow one-way due to high-speed DH (e.g. ODP, South Fork, etc) and perhaps the idea to foster trail integrity by uphill only (e.g. North Fork), but why take away our agency/freedom within Phil's complex. MTB is an inherently dangerous sport, and I support safe riding, but there's nothing remotely dangerous w/i Phil's complex that should require DH ~or~ UH travel only; IMO. With that being said, I could see the Canyon as DH only...and I'd support that....but Ben's and Kent's.....come on!!
    Kent's will be two way. If you view Ben's as downhill, we need to discuss.... Ben's will be the climbing route. The plan is to have Phil's downhill from the Kent's intersection. That is the Canyon btw. All clearly signed. Can you imagine the pure joy of bombing down Phil's Canyon... Works for me.
    Support Bend Trails
    http://bendtrails.org
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    248
    Uphill or downhill only for Kents. Ridiculous IMHO.

  9. #9
    Keep Singletrack Single
    Reputation: willem3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,147
    Quote Originally Posted by SpryIP View Post
    Uphill or downhill only for Kents. Ridiculous IMHO.
    Kent's will be as it is today. Uphill & Downhill.
    Support Bend Trails
    http://bendtrails.org
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    248
    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    Kent's will be as it is today. Uphill & Downhill.
    Great! Rest makes sense to me.

  11. #11
    Keep Singletrack Single
    Reputation: willem3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,147

    COTA board, secret meetings, one way trails. No member input allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by SpryIP View Post
    Great! Rest makes sense to me.
    Cool. More announcements on this coming soon. This will include a launch day at the trails. Thanks!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Support Bend Trails
    http://bendtrails.org
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jjMarS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    124
    Thanks for clarifying, willem3. I've been for the Canyon as DH Only for a long time and have often discussed this topic with many local fiends. In relation to Ben's as the climbing route, I will admit that I less than frequently use Ben's as my descending route, but it's still very fun to ride downhill and I can't understand why it needs to be uphill traffic only....help me to understand? Although I can see the overall vision, I can't think if a single section where visibility ~or~ UH/DH conflict is an issue. I've lived in Bend for 10 yrs and have NEVER came up on uphill traffic while descending Ben's (i.e. in an intrusive manner to either recreationalist); like we've ALL done on the canyon. I wouldn't say that I'm TOTALLY opposed to Ben's as UH only....but I do like the idea of 'line freedom" should I choose to DH that section of the complex. I'd welcome more of your thoughts....
    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    Kent's will be two way. If you view Ben's as downhill, we need to discuss.... Ben's will be the climbing route. The plan is to have Phil's downhill from the Kent's intersection. That is the Canyon btw. All clearly signed. Can you imagine the pure joy of bombing down Phil's Canyon... Works for me.
    jjMarS

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    169
    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    Not just Gentlemen...ladies too. I am proudly part of this committee. The vast majority of people will "love it", once they try it. First, another premier MTB destination, Fruita, Colorado just went to directional trails, second Whoops is already one-way, third, we have designated climbing routes in Wanoga, & fourth, we would rather take this approach than having the Forest Service take the option out of our hands due to a serious accident.

    No doubt there will be vigorous debate here and in other forums. So far, the feedback I have personally received has been super positive. You may recall a "Right of Way Rant" thread on this forum last year. That thread provided tons of feedback and information for us.

    For the rest, I will let a COTA board member address your other points.

    Cheers!!
    Comparing Bend to Fruita is laughable to say the least. You could ride most of the trails in the Phil's complex on a roadbike!

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: eschmid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    40
    Just got back from riding Sandy Ridge this Saturday. Besides the phenomenal riding, I was amazed at how many cars were in the parking lot (and overflow parking lot) but how few people I met while riding trails--I didn't have to pull over for anyone (and I do follow trail etiquette). The Sandy Ridge system is a ONE WAY system.
    Living in New Zealand for 2 years, I found the same phenomena in New Zealand in Rotorua. A majority of the trails there are ONE WAY. On a busy weekend with hundreds of cars in the parking lots, one would see few people while riding on trails. It was a superior riding experience in this respect.
    When I returned from New Zealand to Bend, I found that the number of people riding on the trails had dramatically increased. On a Sunday, in November, I was able to take my first ride Down Phil's in a couple of years. I was forced to pull over at least 10 times for over 18 uphill riders in two or so miles.
    People, upon first hearing about the ONE WAY trail system, may initially take the view that something has been taken away from them. However, with the increase in trail users in the "Golden Triangle", the freedom to actually ride, has already been taken.
    I view the change to the ONE WAY system as a proactive solution to a problem of increased trail use. What we lose, we have already lost, and what we stand to gain is the freedom to ride with miminal interuption to the experience we all seek.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: SeenYour Crash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    330
    One-way trails in the Phil’s Complex have been discussed for years, both in the community and within COTA. COTA has developed a pro-active, user-based initiative to preserve and enhance the user experience in the ever more popular Phil’s Trail Complex.

    This year, the COTA Board organized a diverse sub-committee to look into the feasibility of directional trails for the Phil’s and Wanoga networks. I headed up the sub-committee with a mix of 4 current COTA Board members, and 7 members from the community including bike shop employees, trail adopters, and your fellow riders.

    The committee reviewed the current status of the trails and the trend in usage of the trails. Add in the reality that the USFS will be “improving” the Phil’s Trailhead parking area in the 2015 season and adding a Welcome Center, which will include approximately and additional 30 space parking lot on the south side of the Phil’s Trail Complex. Little Bend, Oregon and the quaint user-built trails of town are now a worldwide destination trail system. The reality is, our busy trails system is going to get busier.

    The “Trail Love” etiquette campaign is a great start to addressing the increased usage, as was the addition of better signage for the Complex. The etiquette campaign and signage will continue.

    The COTA Board has approved the Directional Trails plan. The plan was also presented to CORK, the runners club, as well as DogPAC and both groups are in support of the plan. The Deschutes National Forest is in support of this plan and COTA will be launching this with their full cooperation.

    The benefits of directional trails include:
    • More riding. Less stopping. How many rides have you been on in the last year or two that were interrupted by more and more users going the opposite direction you were going?
    • Less conflict. Ride your own ride. Have you had a bad experience with some jerk running you off the trail? Have you schedule your life around ride times that may help you avoid the crowds?
    • Enjoy the forest. See fewer people. By riding with the flow of other users you’ll see fewer people.
    • Safety. In recent years COTA receives more and more first hand accounts of serious injuries caused by head-on collisions with other users.
    • Keep single track single. With fewer riders passing one another the trails will return to a more pure single track for more enjoyable riding. COTA will not be altering the character of these trails for their new designation.
    • Try it. You’ll like it. Trail networks around the country have adopted one-way systems with great success. Fruita is a great example of going on a ride from an overflowing parking lot only to find that you are by yourself and on your own ride the whole time.


    Give it a try and you might like it.

    The negative:
    #1 you can’t go the other way. That’s it there’s one negative.

    Trails affected:
    Ben’s uphill
    Phil’s downhill from Jct 18 (aka Kent’s)

    Tyler’s Traverse: majority will be downhill only with the exception of the relatively flat middle section in the vicinity of Larsen Trail for better navigation within the network.

    Coming to two trails in the Phil’s Complex soon.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 100#fury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    7
    Finally! This is a much needed improvement. I've been riding these trails for 17 years now and it has become a mess of people. I've ridden one way trails in other areas and loved it. I think over time, it will make the experience so much more enjoyable.

    I also find it humorous that everyone supports one-way DH trails but no UH trails. Seriously? Go ride those shitty trails on Mt.B and stay off the cross country tread. Have fun.

  17. #17
    Afric Pepperbird
    Reputation: dirt farmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    4,713
    I'll not mind Phil's DH only and Ben's uphill only at all!

    By the way, does anyone know about plans for building an uphill single-track parallel to Whoops? Riding up Rd. 310 gets kind of stale.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sketchbook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    587
    deleted
    Last edited by sketchbook; 04-30-2014 at 12:17 AM.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    8
    What is different between Bend, Fruita, Oakridge etc is that we have a flat trail network. We have a lot of riders at Phil's because it is so damn easy to ride.

    I yield all the time for less experienced riders, or if I can allow a rider to keep their flow. That's trail love to me.

    It has long been a motto in COTA to have no net loss of trail, period. If you try to take it away you have to give me something else that is just as good. So if you do decide to remove the Phil's Climb you should replace it with another trail that parallels it.

    Here is an idea...

    This needs to be a voted on topic by the members. Don't sit I your ivory towers and expect us to be happy when our dictator speaks. Give me a break.

    Please consider building uphill routes for each downhill you remove and a downhill route for each uphill you remove.

    As a COTA Board Member you serve me. So why not vote on it. The trail network was not built by CORK, or DOGPAC. So respect that fact.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jjMarS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    124
    Thanks for placing a little more color into the landscape; the vision is becoming more clear as I see the flow of this initiative within my minds eye. However, if this project finds the efficacy it desires within this seemingly low-volume approach, it seems that this may echo into other areas of Bend's MTB trails...which may be warranted...but how do us common folk get a say in how things unfold?
    Quote Originally Posted by SeenYour Crash View Post
    One-way trails in the Phil’s Complex have been discussed for years, both in the community and within COTA. COTA has developed a pro-active, user-based initiative to preserve and enhance the user experience in the ever more popular Phil’s Trail Complex.

    This year, the COTA Board organized a diverse sub-committee to look into the feasibility of directional trails for the Phil’s and Wanoga networks. I headed up the sub-committee with a mix of 4 current COTA Board members, and 7 members from the community including bike shop employees, trail adopters, and your fellow riders.

    The committee reviewed the current status of the trails and the trend in usage of the trails. Add in the reality that the USFS will be “improving” the Phil’s Trailhead parking area in the 2015 season and adding a Welcome Center, which will include approximately and additional 30 space parking lot on the south side of the Phil’s Trail Complex. Little Bend, Oregon and the quaint user-built trails of town are now a worldwide destination trail system. The reality is, our busy trails system is going to get busier.

    The “Trail Love” etiquette campaign is a great start to addressing the increased usage, as was the addition of better signage for the Complex. The etiquette campaign and signage will continue.

    The COTA Board has approved the Directional Trails plan. The plan was also presented to CORK, the runners club, as well as DogPAC and both groups are in support of the plan. The Deschutes National Forest is in support of this plan and COTA will be launching this with their full cooperation.

    The benefits of directional trails include:
    • More riding. Less stopping. How many rides have you been on in the last year or two that were interrupted by more and more users going the opposite direction you were going?
    • Less conflict. Ride your own ride. Have you had a bad experience with some jerk running you off the trail? Have you schedule your life around ride times that may help you avoid the crowds?
    • Enjoy the forest. See fewer people. By riding with the flow of other users you’ll see fewer people.
    • Safety. In recent years COTA receives more and more first hand accounts of serious injuries caused by head-on collisions with other users.
    • Keep single track single. With fewer riders passing one another the trails will return to a more pure single track for more enjoyable riding. COTA will not be altering the character of these trails for their new designation.
    • Try it. You’ll like it. Trail networks around the country have adopted one-way systems with great success. Fruita is a great example of going on a ride from an overflowing parking lot only to find that you are by yourself and on your own ride the whole time.


    Give it a try and you might like it.

    The negative:
    #1 you can’t go the other way. That’s it there’s one negative.

    Trails affected:
    Ben’s uphill
    Phil’s downhill from Jct 18 (aka Kent’s)

    Tyler’s Traverse: majority will be downhill only with the exception of the relatively flat middle section in the vicinity of Larsen Trail for better navigation within the network.

    Coming to two trails in the Phil’s Complex soon.
    Last edited by jjMarS; 03-17-2014 at 01:05 AM.
    jjMarS

  21. #21
    Keep Singletrack Single
    Reputation: willem3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,147
    Quote Originally Posted by Respectthetrails View Post
    What is different between Bend, Fruita, Oakridge etc is that we have a flat trail network. We have a lot of riders at Phil's because it is so damn easy to ride.

    We also have massive volume because the trails are close to town. Certainly not the case for me, but for many they are not flat.

    I yield all the time for less experienced riders, or if I can allow a rider to keep their flow. That's trail love to me.

    Fantastic. You are already doing your part.

    It has long been a motto in COTA to have no net loss of trail, period. If you try to take it away you have to give me something else that is just as good. So if you do decide to remove the Phil's Climb you should replace it with another trail that parallels it.

    There are already trails in the area that are under utilized. Grand Slam is a good example of this.

    Here is an idea...

    This needs to be a voted on topic by the members. Don't sit I your ivory towers and expect us to be happy when our dictator speaks. Give me a break.

    Please consider building uphill routes for each downhill you remove and a downhill route for each uphill you remove.

    As a COTA Board Member you serve me. So why not vote on it. The trail network was not built by CORK, or DOGPAC. So respect that fact.
    The best way for you to address these issues is to not be anonymous, get involved, join our monthly meetings, and help with trail work. Funny how you just signed up for MTBR to rant about this. Or do you have another ID on here? Post #2 for you?
    Support Bend Trails
    http://bendtrails.org
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  22. #22
    Keep Singletrack Single
    Reputation: willem3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,147
    Quote Originally Posted by Respectthetrails View Post
    What is different between Bend, Fruita, Oakridge etc is that we have a flat trail network. We have a lot of riders at Phil's because it is so damn easy to ride.

    I yield all the time for less experienced riders, or if I can allow a rider to keep their flow. That's trail love to me.

    It has long been a motto in COTA to have no net loss of trail, period. If you try to take it away you have to give me something else that is just as good. So if you do decide to remove the Phil's Climb you should replace it with another trail that parallels it.

    Here is an idea...

    This needs to be a voted on topic by the members. Don't sit I your ivory towers and expect us to be happy when our dictator speaks. Give me a break.

    Please consider building uphill routes for each downhill you remove and a downhill route for each uphill you remove.

    As a COTA Board Member you serve me. So why not vote on it. The trail network was not built by CORK, or DOGPAC. So respect that fact.
    One additional point... In the beginning of your post, you mention that the trail network is "flat". Yet in your continued post you mention Phil's as "climb" and "uphill".

    Which is it? Can't have it both ways...
    Support Bend Trails
    http://bendtrails.org
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    248
    Quote Originally Posted by sketchbook View Post
    There is a parallel singletrack heading up to whoops. Just go south on road 300 a couple hundred feet.

    It's not used very heavily, but it's there.
    Is this an official trail? Just to confirm, there is a trail between Phils and Whoops?

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    225
    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    Kent's will be two way. If you view Ben's as downhill, we need to discuss.... Ben's will be the climbing route. The plan is to have Phil's downhill from the Kent's intersection. That is the Canyon btw. All clearly signed. Can you imagine the pure joy of bombing down Phil's Canyon... Works for me.
    I have a question on this. I have introduced my oldest kid to Mt. biking on Ben's. I think it is by far the best trail to for a beginner in this regard. We have gone up there, rode up as long as my kids wanted to, then turned around before he got exhausted, and rode back down. I have been planning to do this with my daughter this year. Am I going to get "in trouble"? Will people be glaring at me as some evil prick? I'm not saying it is entirely a bad idea, but it does put pressure on folks to ride more than they may want to, or be restricted from riding the trail because they may not be able to make the connectors. Not thrilled with Kents being left as the only alternative.

    Just something to think about.

  25. #25
    Keep Singletrack Single
    Reputation: willem3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,147

    COTA board, secret meetings, one way trails. No member input allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    I have a question on this. I have introduced my oldest kid to Mt. biking on Ben's. I think it is by far the best trail to for a beginner in this regard. We have gone up there, rode up as long as my kids wanted to, then turned around before he got exhausted, and rode back down. I have been planning to do this with my daughter this year. Am I going to get "in trouble"? Will people be glaring at me as some evil prick? I'm not saying it is entirely a bad idea, but it does put pressure on folks to ride more than they may want to, or be restricted from riding the trail because they may not be able to make the connectors. Not thrilled with Kents being left as the only alternative.

    Just something to think about.
    Good question. The great thing about Ben's trail is that it has multiple options to cross over to Kent's & Phil's. These include MTB Trail at about 1.5 miles in, KGB, & Voodoo. Therefore, it will be easy to create a loop.

    You also have Marvin's as a superb alternative. Additionally, COTA will be building additional family friendly trails by the new visitor center at Century & Conklin.

    Cheers!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Support Bend Trails
    http://bendtrails.org
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  26. #26
    Keep Singletrack Single
    Reputation: willem3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,147

    COTA board, secret meetings, one way trails. No member input allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by SpryIP View Post
    Is this an official trail? Just to confirm, there is a trail between Phils and Whoops?
    Not official. Easy to find off Rd. 300. Just head South on 300 and keep your eyes focused on the right side. You will find it. Not sure how it came about.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Support Bend Trails
    http://bendtrails.org
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    225
    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    Good question. The great thing about Ben's trail is that it has multiple options to cross over to Kent's & Phil's. These include MTB Trail at about 1.5 miles in, KGB, & Voodoo. Therefore, it will be easy to create a loop.

    You also have Marvin's as a superb alternative. Additionally, COTA will be building additional family friendly trails by the new visitor center at Century & Conklin.

    Cheers!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

    Like I said, I'm not totally opposed to the idea, particularly as my son has gotten to the point we do the route as it is going to be laid out anyway, as a matter of normal practice. I just liked how Ben's gave a much better degree of challenge compared to Marvins, was fun both directions, was pretty well shaded during the summer, etc. It has been the case many times when I have had us turn around as my way of introducing my kids to a sport I love is to make it as fun, and stress free as possible until they are hooked. Thus, the turn around rather than pressuring him up to the next connector. That was how I was planning to introduce my daughter to it this year.

    I like the Canyon as downhill, I'm just not as thrilled with Bens being only uphill. By the way, I have also had to go downhill due to gear failure and running out of time on Ben's while planning to go up to the top and coming down Phil's, but the lack of time forced us to come back down Ben's. I hope people will not have hollier than thou attitudes if there is the occasional person that goes the "wrong way", even for short stints of the trail. Knowing how so many people are on the trails, I can see the "purist" becoming a very unforgiving a-hole, and I hope people will be a bit forgiving instead if the intent of people is to abide by the rules.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    The best way for you to address these issues is to not be anonymous, get involved, join our monthly meetings, and help with trail work. Funny how you just signed up for MTBR to rant about this. Or do you have another ID on here? Post #2 for you?
    You are falsely accusing me of not being involved, not attending meetings, and not doing trail work. This stays anonymous because of the dictatorship that currently exists at COTA.

    This is also not a rant. This is to shed light on a bad decision making process, a lack of transparency, and the Board members of COTA being controlled by Paul and Woody into doing their bidding.

    To address your second point about flat trails. Phil's area is flat by comparison to the other areas discussed. I want to ride both ways on any trail I want to. The last thing I need to hear is that "This trail is one way dude".

    Case in point... I had a mechanical on the way up North Fork trail. I was near happy valley but I could not go on. So on a busy Saturday I rode my bike respectfully back down North Fork trail. Along the way I came across numerous hikers and mountain bikers that scolded me for going downhill on an uphill only trail. I took it in stride but it sucked big time. (For the record North Fork trail is signed as uphill only but administratively it is not.) Either way I had to get out of the trail network and unless I wanted to walk up North Fork all the way to happy valley, do the rest of the climb pushing my bike to Farewell trail I had to go downhill. This could happen on Bens trail as well. Can you see this as a recipe for conflict? I did and I do.

    If COTA continues to ignore the amount of work that needs to be done in the Phil's Triangle to make it a better riding experience and decides only to apply rules to the area we all lose. Wanoga has consumed massive amounts of money and labor and is a really great new area, well done COTA. But in the Phil's area all we have had are some Trail Love stickers, and a mostly disgusted eye turned away by COTA.

    What we need are more trails to reduce the load on the network. We need beginner loops close to the trailhead so the Moms and Dads are not trying to teach their kids how to ride in the main flow of the trails. Make those one way if you like.

    More than anything if you do decide to make trails one way give us all an option of a second trail that gains the same distance to the same junction. At least that way you satisfy all the members and public that are going to come out of the woodwork against your seemingly well thought out plan.

    Post #3

  29. #29
    Keep Singletrack Single
    Reputation: willem3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,147

    COTA board, secret meetings, one way trails. No member input allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    Like I said, I'm not totally opposed to the idea, particularly as my son has gotten to the point we do the route as it is going to be laid out anyway, as a matter of normal practice. I just liked how Ben's gave a much better degree of challenge compared to Marvins, was fun both directions, was pretty well shaded during the summer, etc. It has been the case many times when I have had us turn around as my way of introducing my kids to a sport I love is to make it as fun, and stress free as possible until they are hooked. Thus, the turn around rather than pressuring him up to the next connector. That was how I was planning to introduce my daughter to it this year.

    I like the Canyon as downhill, I'm just not as thrilled with Bens being only uphill. By the way, I have also had to go downhill due to gear failure and running out of time on Ben's while planning to go up to the top and coming down Phil's, but the lack of time forced us to come back down Ben's. I hope people will not have hollier than thou attitudes if there is the occasional person that goes the "wrong way", even for short stints of the trail. Knowing how so many people are on the trails, I can see the "purist" becoming a very unforgiving a-hole, and I hope people will be a bit forgiving instead if the intent of people is to abide by the rules.
    Good points. The other great thing about Ben's is its proximity to Skyliner Road. If you have a failure, massive accident (personal experience....long story), or other issue, you can bail out at multiple points. If you have to go down, just be respectful to uphill riders. Stuff happens!!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Support Bend Trails
    http://bendtrails.org
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    8
    Seen your crash...

    We all know that you have pride for your success at COTA. Thanks for all your hard work.

    But if I recall we have discussed that setting a precedence of one way trails was a horrible idea. It spreads throughout the network until you have lost half of the mileage you once had.

    How about we make COD downhill only. Your thoughts?
    Last edited by Respectthetrails; 03-17-2014 at 09:50 AM. Reason: Typo

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    8
    Maybe someone should ask Phil what he thinks of his trail being a one way downhill. Did that happen?

    Did COTA include past presidents like Eric Meglasson, Kent Howes, or Paul Hammerquist into the discussion of one way trails or did you discount their knowledge and legacy for your own gain?

  32. #32
    newfydog
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    276
    Are the downhill trails going to be open to hikers and runners? Will they be one way for them? Will anyone point out to the gonzo dh they still need to be alert?

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    225
    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    Good points. The other great thing about Ben's is its proximity to Skyliner Road. If you have a failure, massive accident (personal experience....long story), or other issue, you can bail out at multiple points. If you have to go down, just be respectful to uphill riders. Stuff happens!!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

    I'm fine with this tact. I hope that part of this agreement is that those who "patrol" the trails, meaning many of the regulars that may find themselves thinking of themselves as the purist defacto "cops" of the trails, will be instructed to at least try to be polite about reminding those going downhill the trail is supposed to be uphill only. That, I believe, should be a very important bit of instructions for the COTA people. Since we have gone this long with Ben's as a two-way trail, if someone occasionally goes the "wrong way", it should not ruin anyone's day, and people should not act like it is ruining everything by treating the "offenders" as scum.

    By the way, for a newby kid just getting his first taste significant uphill, even the Skyliners exits are beyond where we have turned around. It took us a few rides to even make the first cutoff to Kents. While we are blessed with TONS of miles of trails, there are only a couple of good routes up in the lower trail area, namely Phil's, Ben's & Kents. That's why it is kinda a bummer to be restricted to Kent's if we want to have the flexibility to do a turnaround when needed.

    I get it. It is rarely the case that a choice does not come with some form of a negative outcome. In this case, I believe it is a bummer that Ben's loses some flexibility. And I am really not trying to change anyone's mind, as I believe down the road I will be glad the policy has been made.

    Thanks for all the work you do. I am a grateful Mtn Biker who barely has enough time to get out on the trails, let alone do any work on them. So, my comments should be taken as an interested party who will be happy to have the opportunity, and will look at this for its positives, rather than focus on the negatives. But I do think it is important for people to be told to not be too vigilant in their scolding of those who might have a decent reason to be going the wrong way . . . . they may have intended to complete the loop . . . but as you say, "Stuff Happens!!" While the overwhelming majority of those I have come across on the trails have been really cool people, incredibly positive to my boy getting into the sport, but I have also found this sport to be populated by quite a few that are "overly serious" about their sport, and too quick to rip into someone for violating a rule of the trail before considering circumstances.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by newfydog View Post
    Are the downhill trails going to be open to hikers and runners? Will they be one way for them? Will anyone point out to the gonzo dh they still need to be alert?
    Great points newfydog! How many runners enjoy the beauty of running up Phil's Canyon. I know I love riding that section "up". The rock formations and biodiversity of the canyon are simply amazing. Unless you stop a lot you will miss all of it blasting downhill.

  35. #35
    Keep Singletrack Single
    Reputation: willem3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,147

    COTA board, secret meetings, one way trails. No member input allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    I'm fine with this tact. I hope that part of this agreement is that those who "patrol" the trails, meaning many of the regulars that may find themselves thinking of themselves as the purist defacto "cops" of the trails, will be instructed to at least try to be polite about reminding those going downhill the trail is supposed to be uphill only. That, I believe, should be a very important bit of instructions for the COTA people. Since we have gone this long with Ben's as a two-way trail, if someone occasionally goes the "wrong way", it should not ruin anyone's day, and people should not act like it is ruining everything by treating the "offenders" as scum.

    By the way, for a newby kid just getting his first taste significant uphill, even the Skyliners exits are beyond where we have turned around. It took us a few rides to even make the first cutoff to Kents. While we are blessed with TONS of miles of trails, there are only a couple of good routes up in the lower trail area, namely Phil's, Ben's & Kents. That's why it is kinda a bummer to be restricted to Kent's if we want to have the flexibility to do a turnaround when needed.

    I get it. It is rarely the case that a choice does not come with some form of a negative outcome. In this case, I believe it is a bummer that Ben's loses some flexibility. And I am really not trying to change anyone's mind, as I believe down the road I will be glad the policy has been made.

    Thanks for all the work you do. I am a grateful Mtn Biker who barely has enough time to get out on the trails, let alone do any work on them. So, my comments should be taken as an interested party who will be happy to have the opportunity, and will look at this for its positives, rather than focus on the negatives. But I do think it is important for people to be told to not be too vigilant in their scolding of those who might have a decent reason to be going the wrong way . . . . they may have intended to complete the loop . . . but as you say, "Stuff Happens!!" While the overwhelming majority of those I have come across on the trails have been really cook people, incredibly positive to my boy getting into the sport, but I have also found this sport to be populated by quite a few that are "overly serious" about their sport, and too quick to rip into someone for violating a rule of the trail before considering circumstances.
    Your point regarding communication style is super important. It will take time and education to get this right. Being calm and respectful will go a long way. Also, expect our signage to be clear and intuitive.

    Thanks for your comments and questions.
    Support Bend Trails
    http://bendtrails.org
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    225
    Too funny, I just read where I said "I have come across on the trails have been really cook people" I meant "cool".

    Anyway, thanks again. Can't wait for the trails to be in condition to ride. By the way, you guys have any idea, given the snow pack and ground moisture you are seeing now, when we should expect the trails up to Whoops to be ride-able this year? I know it would be a totally WAG, and totally contingent on our typically crazy spring weather, but, ...

  37. #37
    Keep Singletrack Single
    Reputation: willem3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,147

    COTA board, secret meetings, one way trails. No member input allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    Too funny, I just read where I said "I have come across on the trails have been really cook people" I meant "cool".

    Anyway, thanks again. Can't wait for the trails to be in condition to ride. By the way, you guys have any idea, given the snow pack and ground moisture you are seeing now, when we should expect the trails up to Whoops to be ride-able this year? I know it would be a totally WAG, and totally contingent on our typically crazy spring weather, but, ...
    I was out there yesterday. Riding nicely to the Chicken. Also perfect to about 2.5 miles up Kent's. Some small muddy patches up to 300. Drying out fast. Although, our moisture last night will affect things. Actually super sandy in some spots due to the heavy rains and trails being turned into drainage.
    Support Bend Trails
    http://bendtrails.org
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    72
    For complete disclosure I will start off by saying that I am a current COTA board member, and also served on the one way trail committee, and that the following text is my opinion.

    @ Respectthetrails most of us know who you are and we all appreciate all the work you have done over the years, and will continue to do in the future. For that I will respect your anonymity as everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

    However, bashing the current COTA board and specifically calling out Paul and Woody was probably a little unnecessary. As a current board member I would like to point out to the rest of the mtbr community that in fact we are not a dictatorship, just a group of individuals who share a common passion for building trails we can enjoy on our bikes. I would also like to point out that the Board is composed entirely of volunteers.

    I'm sure this thread will continue for some time as we all know this is a pretty big deal for our beloved trail system. The fact of the matter is things change, and we either do nothing or adapt. One way trails is an adaptation for a trail system that is seeing more users every year as Bend becomes an ever more popular destination for the outdoor enthusiast. This is a big picture solution to a growing problem in the lower Phils triangle that can be implemented this year to evaluate its effectiveness on managing the crowds, and creating a better user experience for all.

    If it turns out the plan the committee came up with was in fact ill conceived and poorly executed we will all know in a couple months! If that ends up being the case I will personally bring the matter to the board and demand that we either ditch the plan entirely or adapt the plan as needed. So before we all jump to conclusions, lets just give it a try, I promise the sky is not going to fall down if we do!

    Sincerely,

    Joe T.
    COTA Free Ride Coordinator

  39. #39
    What day are we riding?
    Reputation: Rockin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,088
    I can follow some of the logic, especially Phils Canyon (just rebuild the old climbing trail that got taken out???). But, the Ben's decision has me scratching my head - plus I love riding down it. So if I understand, all of the downhill traffic from Whoops is going to have to cut over and go down Phil's/Kent's or out to Skyliner? Over time what that really means is that if another trail is not built is that Kent's will turn in to a defacto downhill trail.

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by jtrein View Post
    For complete disclosure I will start off by saying that I am a current COTA board member, and also served on the one way trail committee, and that the following text is my opinion.

    @ Respectthetrails most of us know who you are and we all appreciate all the work you have done over the years, and will continue to do in the future. For that I will respect your anonymity as everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

    However, bashing the current COTA board and specifically calling out Paul and Woody was probably a little unnecessary. As a current board member I would like to point out to the rest of the mtbr community that in fact we are not a dictatorship, just a group of individuals who share a common passion for building trails we can enjoy on our bikes. I would also like to point out that the Board is composed entirely of volunteers.

    I'm sure this thread will continue for some time as we all know this is a pretty big deal for our beloved trail system. The fact of the matter is things change, and we either do nothing or adapt. One way trails is an adaptation for a trail system that is seeing more users every year as Bend becomes an ever more popular destination for the outdoor enthusiast. This is a big picture solution to a growing problem in the lower Phils triangle that can be implemented this year to evaluate its effectiveness on managing the crowds, and creating a better user experience for all.

    If it turns out the plan the committee came up with was in fact ill conceived and poorly executed we will all know in a couple months! If that ends up being the case I will personally bring the matter to the board and demand that we either ditch the plan entirely or adapt the plan as needed. So before we all jump to conclusions, lets just give it a try, I promise the sky is not going to fall down if we do!

    Sincerely,

    Joe T.
    COTA Free Ride Coordinator
    Joe,
    I appreciate the fact that you are willing to revisit the issue if it is opposed by the masses. I have given several great options to unclog the pipe that is Phils Network in my posts. Have any of these been considered?

    I am not trying to call anyone out. By using Paul and Woody as the top dogs at COTA I am stating a fact. The board bends to their will. Who opposes Paul or Woody... ever.

    That's the boards problem. Sort it out and pick who is going to be the next COTA Chairman before its time to have one. You have about a year and a half.

    This Post is however about "One Way" trails. I'll stop posting insider information if COTA becomes transparent. When there is transparency nothing is news. So please stop keeping COTA members in the dark. You need our input, badly. This news should be on the front page of the COTA site with a request for comments. Instead we have MTBR. Bummer...

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockin View Post
    I can follow some of the logic, especially Phils Canyon (just rebuild the old climbing trail that got taken out???). But, the Ben's decision has me scratching my head - plus I love riding down it. So if I understand, all of the downhill traffic from Whoops is going to have to cut over and go down Phil's/Kent's or out to Skyliner? Over time what that really means is that if another trail is not built is that Kent's will turn in to a defacto downhill trail.
    You could not be more correct. But they are planning on cutting the one way off before it hits Rd.300. If that's incorrect then man its going to be a mess.

  42. #42
    Keep Singletrack Single
    Reputation: willem3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,147

    COTA board, secret meetings, one way trails. No member input allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by Respectthetrails View Post
    You could not be more correct. But they are planning on cutting the one way off before it hits Rd.300. If that's incorrect then man its going to be a mess.
    We do plan a route to the right to direct downhill traffic further South on Rd. 300 toward Phil's. I will let Seen Your Crash add some detail to my comment.
    Support Bend Trails
    http://bendtrails.org
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,600
    I'm an outsider, never ridden in this specific area but have been to Fruita several times as will as the other Phil's, as in Phil's World in Cortez, CO which is pretty much 100% "directional" and it just may be the best trail system I've ever ridden. It's nice to know I don't have to worry about getting plowed from somebody coming directly at me.

    Overall, I like the directional idea. In all the places I've experienced it, it seems to work as designed.

  44. #44
    I should be out riding
    Reputation: ACree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,497
    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    Why? Provide more detail to your argument.
    That should be more incumbent on those proposing changes to the existing rules than those questioning the need. Sounds like an F'd up process by COTA for sure.

  45. #45
    Keep Singletrack Single
    Reputation: willem3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,147

    COTA board, secret meetings, one way trails. No member input allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by ACree View Post
    That should be more incumbent on those proposing changes to the existing rules than those questioning the need. Sounds like an F'd up process by COTA for sure.
    No. Incorrect. I was responding to his statement with no argument to back it up.

    You post an inflammatory comment with no detail for your own position other than to dislike the process. Seen Your Crash has posted our plan. What is your take on the plan?
    Support Bend Trails
    http://bendtrails.org
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  46. #46
    Keep Singletrack Single
    Reputation: willem3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,147

    COTA board, secret meetings, one way trails. No member input allowed

    Quote Originally Posted by ACree View Post
    That should be more incumbent on those proposing changes to the existing rules than those questioning the need. Sounds like an F'd up process by COTA for sure.
    If you read the entire thread, Mr Mars and I came to an agreement about the plan. So, we are providing the details on the changes, ACree. Cheers!
    Support Bend Trails
    http://bendtrails.org
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  47. #47
    I should be out riding
    Reputation: ACree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,497
    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    No. Incorrect. I was responding to his statement with no argument to back it up.

    You post an inflammatory comment with no detail for your own position other than to dislike the process. Seen Your Crash has posted our plan. What is your take on the plan?
    You're mistaking me for the OP. I didn't post anything inflammatory. I questioned your demand for more detail. Even if COTA were taking the proper course here, secret proceeding and minimal public input start the communications off on the wrong foot.

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: OldHouseMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,491
    ...
    Last edited by OldHouseMan; 03-18-2014 at 11:05 PM.
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    72
    Quote Originally Posted by Respectthetrails View Post
    Joe,
    I appreciate the fact that you are willing to revisit the issue if it is opposed by the masses. I have given several great options to unclog the pipe that is Phils Network in my posts. Have any of these been considered?

    I am not trying to call anyone out. By using Paul and Woody as the top dogs at COTA I am stating a fact. The board bends to their will. Who opposes Paul or Woody... ever.

    That's the boards problem. Sort it out and pick who is going to be the next COTA Chairman before its time to have one. You have about a year and a half.

    This Post is however about "One Way" trails. I'll stop posting insider information if COTA becomes transparent. When there is transparency nothing is news. So please stop keeping COTA members in the dark. You need our input, badly. This news should be on the front page of the COTA site with a request for comments. Instead we have MTBR. Bummer...
    From what I have gathered you have offered only one solution to unclog the Phils network.

    1. "What we need are more trails to reduce the load on the network. We need beginner loops close to the trailhead so the Moms and Dads are not trying to teach their kids how to ride in the main flow of the trails. Make those one way if you like" - Quoted from one of respectthetrails posts.

    Unfortunately that isn't a feasible solution for solving the problem now! The trails would have to be laid out, approved by the Forest Service and then built. This could take years in planning alone. The problem isn't the moms and dads taking their kids out teaching them how to ride, its the large volume of riders we have on the trails. This volume is only going to increase! The easiest most effective means of eliminating the congestion, and conflict is to get them all going the same direction. You see this as a net loss in trails, others like myself see this as a gain as I now get to actually ride the trail without interrupting my ride constantly stopping to yield to others.

    The only other solution I saw was "Please consider building uphill routes for each downhill you remove and a downhill route for each uphill you remove." - Quoted from respectthetrails previous post in this thread.

    This is basically saying the same thing you said in number one above but worded in a different matter and all the issues I stated above for number 1 apply to this as well.

    If I missed the other solutions you proposed my bad and please enlighten me.

    You are calling people out, Woody, Paul and the rest of the COTA board! Since you think the entire Board is too dumb to think for themselves, and that Woody and Paul are brainwashing us with their agendas and stating this as a fact please enlighten me. When have they made myself or anyone else on the board for that matter bend our wills to meet their agendas. Not sure what your issues with Paul or Woody are, but from where I am sitting as a board member they have never forced anything on myself nor the rest of the board.

    To the contrary I believe they are doing a great job leading the organization and the proof is on the ground being enjoyed by many as I type this. Not only on the ground but our membership is also on the rise, clearly something is being done right! Furthermore the only reason I am on the Board is due to the fact that it is a diverse group of people whom actually get along and like each other. Young, older , slow, fast, xc, dh, freeride, old school single track, new school flow trails, all volunteering to spend their free time to better the riding experience in Central Oregon. Central Oregon is lucky to have an organization such as COTA, and I pinch myself every morning knowing that I get to live where people dream of spending their vacation time!

    On a side note, does everyone obey the speed limit signs all the time? Generally speaking I think most people do or stay pretty close to the posted speed during rush hour as the traffic makes it tough, not to mention it draws the attention of the authorities when a car is bobbing and weaving through traffic to get their speed fix as it endangers all those around them. Early morning or late afternoon may be a different story, less cars to deal with a person can open it up a little and not draw too much attention, the authorities are more concerned with eating their donuts than the occasional speeder going 10mph over the posted limit.

    Cheers,
    Joe T.
    COTA Free Ride Coordinator

    P.S. I'm done engaging with respectthetrails on this thread, he is entitled to his own opinion on this matter, but I will let the community decide how they feel in a few months and if it turns out bad I'm sure COTA will make things right.
    Last edited by jtrein; 03-17-2014 at 06:32 PM. Reason: Typo forgot to mention that last edit!

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,089
    Like eschmid wrote in regards to Sandy Ridge... the parking lot, overflow area, and any available spot on the street may be full of cars, but the trails are seemingly empty. It is always like that at Sandy. What do you do about those pesky, two footed trail users though? Just curious... I don't make it to Bend enough to complain, but was pleased that this thread contained mention of the flat nature of the trails. I wish that "us" big city folk had this problem though. This could be something to embrace.
    Last edited by poppa#1; 03-17-2014 at 06:31 PM. Reason: comma
    Master of Laundry...Lord of Cleaning!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. MROSD Upcoming Vision Plan Meetings.
    By ssulljm in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 03-28-2013, 11:20 AM
  2. Regional Blue Ridge Bike Plan meetings
    By Woodman in forum North & South Carolina
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-26-2012, 08:10 AM
  3. Prescott Nat. Forest Plan Meetings
    By gila monster in forum Arizona
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-17-2012, 05:07 PM
  4. The 5th of 6 Master Plan Review meetings in Dublin Wednesday, 7:30 PM
    By Berkeley Mike in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-04-2012, 10:22 AM
  5. State Parks Needs Your Input on Mountain Bike Trails Plan
    By EvergreenStacy in forum Washington
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-27-2012, 12:05 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •