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  1. #1
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    Bend needs a bike park

    Am I the only one who thinks we need a centrally located bike park in town?:

    Mountains out of molehills | Features | The Source Weekly - Bend, Oregon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks we need a centrally located bike park in town?:

    Mountains out of molehills | Features | The Source Weekly - Bend, Oregon
    Yes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks we need a centrally located bike park in town?:

    Mountains out of molehills | Features | The Source Weekly - Bend, Oregon
    Great idea. Where? Best on the East Side of town.
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    What does a bike park bring that we don't already have?

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    Actually surprised there isn't one. Most towns with that much going on typically do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Actually surprised there isn't one. Most towns with that much going on typically do.
    the Lair? or is that too far?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmar123 View Post
    the Lair? or is that too far?
    Valmont Bike Park | Boulder Mountainbike Alliance

    This place rocks. Good example. Build it on the east side to lengthen the season.
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    Big Sky would be an obvious option. It already has the BMX track, and there are two large areas undeveloped. Not sure what they have in mind, long term, for the undeveloped areas, but I did a little work on-line with some GIS appliations and the aerial plats, and it looks like there is about 15 acres adjacent to the BMX track, between the athletic fields and Hamby Road, south of Buckingham Elementary, and another 37 acres in the northeast corner of the park. Even if they have long-term plans for more athletic fields, bike park development would represent a relatively low impact/investment interim use. Here are some aerial photos I worked up for the Big Sky Park area (all within the existing ownership of Bend Parks & Rec District).

    Bend needs a bike park-big-sky-park-whole.jpgBend needs a bike park-big-sky-park-west.jpgBend needs a bike park-big-sky-park-northeast.jpg

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    The Valmont Bike Park involves 132 acres, for sake of reference. Sure it would be nice to have that kind of space, but I don't know that we would need that, given the pretty damned good set of winter trails we do have around here.

    Not sure if BP&R has more room over at the Pine Nursery site.

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    Bend needs a bike park-valmontbikepark-trailmapno.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    Valmont Bike Park | Boulder Mountainbike Alliance

    This place rocks. Good example. Build it on the east side to lengthen the season.
    So people don't have to click the link to see what Valmont looks like:

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    Why do we need more? There is so much already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    Why do we need more? There is so much already.
    Come out to our little bike park at 7th Mtn on a Tuesday morning and your question will be answered for you. It is not for you, obviously you don't think we need one. This would be a great place for kids or folks who currently don't ride, they may find a bike park fun and non intimidating (can't get lost, don't need to be able to read a map, no lions tigers and bears etc.
    Attached Images Attached Images           

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    Yes. I don't see kids able to ride there and then ride. Not a lot of beginner stuff there, no pump track, not really any wood features (which kids love). Ever seen a kid on a kicker bike there? I don't think so.

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    I sold my Company Trail Dynamics earlier this year. TD helped build Valmont and you are correct it is awesome. On a nice weather weekend, there will be 500-1000 riders who visit. Best guess is 40% of them only ride at Valmont.

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    Nice research. Thanks for supplying the maps, a bike park there would seem a good fit. I will venture over that way at some point to look at potential.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    Come out to our little bike park at 7th Mtn on a Tuesday morning and your question will be answered for you.
    Is this a summer camp type of thing where the parents drop the kids off for the day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    Yes. I don't see kids able to ride there and then ride. Not a lot of beginner stuff there, no pump track, not really any wood features (which kids love). Ever seen a kid on a kicker bike there? I don't think so.
    Isn't there a pump track right over at Phil's TH? And I see kids on kicker bikes in lower Phil's often.

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    A bike park in town would be awesome! Why does Bend need one? To help push the progression of the sport.
    Last edited by granitematt; 07-28-2013 at 01:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by granitematt View Post
    A bike park in town would be awesome! Why does Bend need one? To help push the progression of the sport. We are very fortunate to have miles of s
    one word: irrigation!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmar123 View Post
    one word: irrigation!

    Yup. Our bike park here at 7th mtn gets watered every night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmar123 View Post
    one word: irrigation!
    Bentonite, wooden berms and a plate compactor would defiantly help out.

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    What does "push the progression of the sport" mean?

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    What does "push the progression of the sport" mean?
    Mountain biking is ever evolving, changes continue to be made in what we ride, where we ride and how we ride. To me progression is taking a passion and opening the imagination to what may be possible.

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    Are the features in a park different from the features out on the trails?

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    What does "push the progression of the sport" mean?
    Could mean different things to different people. One thing it may mean to many bendites is sharping your skills/working on your weak points which translates to more trail shredding. A couple of hours in a bike park riding at or above your skill level can really elevate trail riding skills.

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    This might help you understand

    I Only Ride Park - YouTube

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    My wife and I attended the IMBA world summit this last season and actually signed up for an all day class on building bike parks. Good info there. Lots of Valmont examples and people from Valmont.

    Problem with Valmont is the overall cost. Millions. I think that's unattainable.

    One of the reasons we were looking into this is that we also think Bend needs some type of bike park or skills area. Especially for kids. Phil's, lair, 7th mountain, wanoga are all too far for a young kid to ride really.

    I was originally thinking the empty area next to the volleyball courts in the old mill which is used each year for CX, but that's gonna be a hotel soon and its obviously spendy real estate.

    The park doesn't need to be huge. Just something small.

    You can even buy pre-engineered obstacles, ramps and features and just set them up. popup bike park style.

    Valmont btw is only about 40 acres. They have more land, but the park itself is about 40.

    CX events are huge and any bike park could serve as a race course if planned properly. Some parks offer this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    A couple of hours in a bike park riding at or above your skill level can really elevate trail riding skills.
    Why would that be better than doing the same over near Phils with the pump track, jump area, the Lair, and the many features available on the trails?

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    Why would that be better than doing the same over near Phils with the pump track, jump area, the Lair, and the many features available on the trails?
    Again, young kids can't get to any of these areas.

    Other than being a devil's advocate, what is your problem with a bike park in town?

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    Why would that be better than doing the same over near Phils with the pump track, jump area, the Lair, and the many features available on the trails?
    Depending on the features of the bike park maybe it wouldn't. Having all the features of the trails you just listed in one 2-3 minute run + a super steep roll in , a skinny, a really tech boulder section etc that you could session over over without taxing your energy for the climb would. Either you get that or you don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sketchbook View Post
    Again, young kids can't get to any of these areas.
    What age of kids can't get to these areas?

    Parents drop their kids off at many different areas throughout Bend on a daily basis. Why is Phils any different? Should young children be hitting a bike park without their parents being present?

    Regardless of the location of a park some children will be too far to ride on their own. Even if the park was dead center in Bend, the majority of young children would probably be too far to ride there without parents being involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by sketchbook View Post
    Other than being a devil's advocate, what is your problem with a bike park in town?
    You need answers to these and many other questions if you want to sell this idea to the community.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pedalitup View Post
    This might help you understand

    I Only Ride Park - YouTube
    Hilarious. Thanks.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is youíll crash.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sketchbook View Post
    Again, young kids can't get to any of these areas.

    Other than being a devil's advocate, what is your problem with a bike park in town?
    Thank you for this very valid question. I have never heard any mountain biker say we don't need more mountain biking opportunities. It is like saying: I like beer but don't want any more brewpubs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    I have never heard any mountain biker say we don't need more mountain biking opportunities.
    Did you read the first reply to your original question?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks we need a centrally located bike park in town?
    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    Yes

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    What age of kids can't get to these areas?

    Parents drop their kids off at many different areas throughout Bend on a daily basis. Why is Phils any different? Should young children be hitting a bike park without their parents being present?

    Regardless of the location of a park some children will be too far to ride on their own. Even if the park was dead center in Bend, the majority of young children would probably be too far to ride there without parents being involved.

    You need answers to these and many other questions if you want to sell this idea to the community.
    4-16. Pre-drivers. Granted 4 year olds can't ride alone many place, but I live in the SW area and ride downtown with my 4 year old all the time. This is a small town. But you bring up a good point. Why stop at 1 park? Maybe several small parks. Just need a bit of dirt...

    Also Phil's is great but it's a little 1 dimensional. Rollers, a pump track, and some massive jumps that are not approachable to most people. I think for teens if you want to drive your kid to this that's great. I have teens, and I would rather them ride their bike somewhere.

    Look at how fast the park at 7th mountain was constructed. 1 week. How much did it cost? Free labor and some equipment rental probably? Doesn't sound hard to sell a community. I think the idea is finding some spaces that would allow this.

    In the old mill there many empty lots and fields. Around the theater, all over the place.

    Someone also mentioned the ability to irrigate. Very important.

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    This park is a bit 1 dimensional as well: but a good case of effective use of space.

    This Might Be the Most Impressive Pop-Up Park We've Ever Seen - Sarah Goodyear - The Atlantic Cities

    My thoughts personally for adult skills are:

    1. Drop progressions. A course with several drop heights to choose from. 6", 12", 18" etc.

    2 Jump progressions. Same as above but with tabletop jumps. Small to large. Lots of variation.

    3. Skinny progression. Same as above. Different heights. From 4" or so and up.

    4. Some type of cornering practice area. See how tight you can take a corner without braking. Could be progressive as well.

    5. Some rock gardens to help people learn how to pick lines. Help people learn to trust their bike to go over rough sections. Start with small short sections of techy stuff. Then gradually make the sections longer and get people used to pedaling through them. Would be nice to be able to show people that a Full susp MTB actually is made to go through rough sections at speed.

    Note I have no experience with any of this. But these are some thoughts off the top of my head which would be helpful for learning.

    These are not really bike "park" things, but more skills building for mountain biking in general.

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    If a minor isn't old enough to ride to Phils then shouldn't they be accompanied by an adult when riding in a bike park?

    Phils and an empty parking lot provide much on the list above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    If a minor isn't old enough to ride to Phils then shouldn't they be accompanied by an adult when riding in a bike park?

    Phils and an empty parking lot provide much on the list above.
    I think you are getting the point. You can create this out of an empty parking lot. Problem is where is the empty available parking lot?

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    Did you read the first reply to your original question?
    Yes, I read that "first reply" and your many replies. We had a steady flow of families at the bike park here all day today, I will listen more to that
    as a vote of what we need and what the community wants way more than a few nay-sayers here on MTBR. I was just out there at 9PM and there were 4 adults watching and 2 kids riding. That is one of the things a bike park offers, a comfortable place for family members who don't ride to hang out and watch.

    I have been summering here in Bend for 8 years now, and ride a ton when here. I have seen more kids on bikes in the last month since we built our little bike park than I have seen in those previous years.

    Bike parks are in indeed great for the progression of our sport, someone pointed that out. But there are also great for folks who currently don't really ride to have a safe and fun place to get involved in this great sport. Many kids and others who ride at bike parks don't ride trails no matter how many miles of them there are. Valmont in Boulder gets between 500-1000 users on a nice weekend, 40% or so of them don't go ride USFS trails. Perhaps you don't care about folks like that, but I do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    I have seen more kids on bikes in the last month since we built our little bike park than I have seen in those previous years.
    Aren't they running a summer camp for kids at the resort? Were the adults and kids you saw at 9pm staying at the resort?

    I see kids on bikes out at Phils all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    But there are also great for folks who currently don't really ride to have a safe and fun place to get involved in this great sport.
    How is a bike park safer and more fun than the Phils complex?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    Many kids and others who ride at bike parks don't ride trails no matter how many miles of them there are. Valmont in Boulder gets between 500-1000 users on a nice weekend, 40% or so of them don't go ride USFS trails. Perhaps you don't care about folks like that, but I do.
    How are the 40% that don't ride trails helping to grow or progress the sport of mountain biking?

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    "Problem with Valmont is the overall cost. Millions. I think that's unattainable."

    Valmont price tag includes: purchase of land and infrastructure development (Parking, bathrooms etc). Parks and Rec dept. spend 2-5 million for a 4-plex baseball field all the time, and how many folks get to use that (not very many).

    Bike parks can be small and inexpensive, or large and expensive. My last project before selling TD was a small bike park in SC, this was about a 50K project (planning/design, labor to build and materials):

    Gateway Park - Greenville Rec

    Maountain bike skills park scheduled to open on Sunday in Travelers Rest

  41. #41
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    Woody,

    I showed the pics of the 7th Mtn. Resort bike park to my 9 year-old daughter and her reaction was, "COOOOOOL!!!" She gets to ride it herself this week. Even though she's ridden all over Phil's and the MRT she thought the resort park looked exciting. I think younger people prefer a more focal and social environment while we old men enjoy dispersing into the woods where we're in relative solitude.

    I know some folks who own mountain bikes (Costco-style) but they're not "mtb type" people (think Sportsman's Warehouse rather than REI). I think if there were an urban bike park nearby they might give it a whirl. I think their reluctance to head into the woods on their bikes is that 1.) It's a different crowd of people from what they're used to, and 2.) Biking in the woods, even Phil's, is unfamiliar and maybe a bit intimidating.

    Having a more park-like environment would probably help those who feel uncomfortable about going into the woods and having to deal with navigation, trail repairs, etiquette, and all of the other unknowns. Have you guys ever wanted to try a new activity but weren't sure how to get started? Sometimes having a controlled environment is the easiest way to get people to take that first step. I picture Bend Parks and Rec having an intro class at an urban park.

    They live on the east side of town so I think it would be most helpful to build near there to attract people who aren't likely to make the effort to head across town to any of the trailheads.

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    Check this out: Video: Tour De Pump - Full Video - Pinkbike some pretty sweet pump tracks in urban settings. One of these in Bend would surely be a huge hit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I picture Bend Parks and Rec having an intro class at an urban park.
    Does Parks and Rec offer an intro skills class now? Plenty of locations around town for teaching intro skills including basic repair. This would be a great class for them to offer and could help get new riders started.

    I took a mtn bike skills clinic and at least half of the time was spent working on skills in parking lots. My skills (especially cornering, braking, manualing, and bunny hopping) jumped by a significant percentage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sketchbook View Post
    Again, young kids can't get to any of these areas.

    Other than being a devil's advocate, what is your problem with a bike park in town?
    StreamRider clearly does not like the idea of bike parks. In my opinion, I think they are great. As a kid, I learned to do really cool things on my BMX in my backyard in a makeshift bike park.

    I would take my girls to a bike park before taking them to Phil's any day. Also, building one on the East Side would be nice for the residents out there as well as having a much longer riding season. It would be available from February till at least late November/early December. That would rock! I would use it as well. Your mountain biking greatly improves from spending time on a pump track.

    I think folks with kids would love it. It also makes for a safe place to learn skills without having to worry about oncoming traffic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    StreamRider clearly does not like the idea of bike parks.
    Incorrect. I am asking questions that need answers before there is much hope of generating real support from the broader community. To sell the idea of a bike park we need something that directly addresses the benefits, like this:

    http://www.nemba.org/documents/Shima...tsDocument.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    I would take my girls to a bike park before taking them to Phil's any day.
    Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    Also, building one on the East Side would be nice for the residents out there as well as having a much longer riding season. It would be available from February till at least late November/early December. That would rock! I would use it as well.
    An east side location would probably require more water. Where will the water come from? Where are the funds to install, maintain, and operate the irrigation?

    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    Your mountain biking greatly improves from spending time on a pump track.


    You would bring your kids to an east side pump track but not the pump track that is right at the bottom of Phils? What is the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    It also makes for a safe place to learn skills without having to worry about oncoming traffic.
    Do bike parks result in less injuries than the trails?

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    I love the bike park idea. My 6 year old daughter is in the Bend Endurance MTB class now, and while they go over to the Phils are Tues, Wed, Thursday, it's a larger group class, and what you can learn is limited. It's dusty as hell, you ahve to worry about other riders, etc. If I do find a cool rock to drop off or section to practice, she's pushing her bike back up the hill, getting tired of it.

    She spent this morning on my back patio for an hour plus, setting up chairs as obstacle course, with a ramp getting her back up on the patio, after dropping down the 2 steps. Kids DIG this stuff, and I know I would have too being younger.

    If there was a bike park, with a cool kick-back area for parents, there would be A LOT of time spent there by many families I'm sure of it.
    Bend, Oregon

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    Why does a bike park decrease the worry of other riders? Aren't there far more riders in close quarters in a bike bike?

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    Quote Originally Posted by willem3 View Post
    StreamRider clearly does not like the idea of bike parks. In my opinion, I think they are great. As a kid, I learned to do really cool things on my BMX in my backyard in a makeshift bike park.

    I would take my girls to a bike park before taking them to Phil's any day. Also, building one on the East Side would be nice for the residents out there as well as having a much longer riding season. It would be available from February till at least late November/early December. That would rock! I would use it as well. Your mountain biking greatly improves from spending time on a pump track.

    I think folks with kids would love it. It also makes for a safe place to learn skills without having to worry about oncoming traffic.
    Big Sky Park is an obvious choice. First of all, it has all the infrastructure in place already. Parking lots, restrooms, etc. Secondly, it already has a BMX track. Third, it has two large areas of land. Fourth, it even has 1st responders immediately adjacent to the park, with the fire station right there on the west side of the park. It is located just east of some of the densest residential development in town.

    Seems like it would be an easy sell to do a bike park on the 17 acres adjacent to the BMX track, as it would not be a great expense, and it would not have to be a permanent thing if they have other long term plans for that land.

    As for irrigation, you can buy water rights right now, be they permanent or temporary, and given that you would not have to irrigate the whole area, but rather parts of it, you should be able to secure the water without a monumental expense. The actual irrigation equipment, not sure on how much that would cost, but would bet you could get a heck of a lot of volunteer work and donated stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    Why?
    First, I have to ask if you have kids. Many people would rather have their kids at a place that is closer in to town, whether that means easier/quicker to pick up and drop off, or the perception that they are in a more "civlilized" location, where the unknowns lurking in the forest are not as scary. It does not even have to be logical, just the "feeling". But most importantly, for most of the population in Bend, an urban east-side location would be way closer, for convenience, they would feel it would be more monitored, and would be closer to emergency services.

    An east side location would probably require more water. Where will the water come from? Where are the funds to install, maintain, and operate the irrigation?
    Why would an east side location need more water? Both sides are plenty dusty. Have you been on Phil's lately? Not any less dusty than the ground over on the east side of town. As for the costs of irrigation, it would only have to be as elaborate and expensive as people want to make it. You would not have to irrigated every inch a ton if designed correctly. And I believe COID and/or Arnold Irrigation District water runs right through that east side, through Big Sky Park. Very likely you could buy some water without it being super expensive. The folks are already right there at the existing park operating the irrigation, and after establishment of the systems, I can't imagine it being a massive increase in demands for their management.

    You would bring your kids to an east side pump track but not the pump track that is right at the bottom of Phils? What is the difference?
    Again, I have to ask, do you have kids. I'm sure many parents would prefer a more typical park like setting for young kids than sending them out to Phil's, and many kids could easily ride from the dense east side neighborhoods to a bike park on that side of town, or mom could drop them off on a quick run to the store and pick them up on the way home.

    Do bike parks result in less injuries than the trails?
    For mile traveled, I would bet, yes. They would typically be designed for one-way riding. Hazards would be much more limited, while skill development features enhanced in a lowered-risk manner.

    No one is saying bike park rather than trail riding, particularly for adults. Rather, bike park to increase the opportunities for kids to get into biking and hone their skills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    Many people would rather have their kids at a place that is closer in to town...
    Big Sky is not close-in by any measurement. Nor is it centrally located. But it is a great location if access by bike is removed as a goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    Why would an east side location need more water?
    Depending on the location it may have more exposure to sun and wind because there are fewer large trees east.

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    Have you been on Phil's lately? Not any less dusty than the ground over on the east side of town.
    Yes. But this is irrelevant because Phil's isn't irrigated.

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    The folks are already right there at the existing park operating the irrigation, and after establishment of the systems, I can't imagine it being a massive increase in demands for their management.
    I would guess a large increase in water usage when attempting to increase the water content of acres of dirt that is exposed to the sun and wind all day.

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    Again, I have to ask, do you have kids.
    I managed to raise kids that learned to ride without a bike park. Many people in town will say the same. Hence the need to identify the benefits of a bike park and more importantly how they are better than what we already have (a world class trail system with a skill development area at Phils TH).

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    I'm sure many parents would prefer a more typical park like setting for young kids than sending them out to Phil's, and many kids could easily ride from the dense east side neighborhoods to a bike park on that side of town, or mom could drop them off on a quick run to the store and pick them up on the way home.
    The young kids I see at Phils are accompanied by adults. I would expect a bike park to be the same. Leaving young kids unsupervised at parks isn't a common practice that I have observed.

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    Hazards would be much more limited
    How so? Looking at example park videos hazards appear to be more frequent than most of lower Phils.

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    No one is saying bike park rather than trail riding, particularly for adults. Rather, bike park to increase the opportunities for kids to get into biking and hone their skills.
    Woodman stated that 40% of bike parkers do not trail ride.

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    I think it's clear a lot of people are on board with a bike park in town.

    Steamrider can keep bringing his kids to phil's.

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    If this thread is any indication, I don't think it would that hard to sell to the community. I count 9 yeas and 3 nays.

    Big Sky would be a good location. In addition to having running water and acreage, that 37 acre parcel currently has a dog park so the city could run the trail right up the middle of it to give people the real feel of riding out on Phil's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    Big Sky is not close-in by any measurement. Nor is it centrally located. But it is a great location if access by bike is removed as a goal.
    Big Sky is adjacent to Buckingham, and VERY close to high-density residential-zoned land all around both sides of Neff, just a mile to the west. Seems very close in to me, that is unless you live on the west side. The west side is already close to the trails, and the east side benefits that much more from the mountain rain shadow, so has less snow on the ground for more of the year, and therefore a longer season, as others have said. It is way closer to a lot of major employers in the area, as well as a lot of retail, schools, and service offerings. That makes it very convenient for those that might want to drop their kid of and/or stop in and stay with their kid. In the past, it has taken me more than 45 minutes to get to Phil's from my kids' school on the northeast side, trying to get a ride in after school. No doubt, if a bike park was over there, we would use that time to ride when we don't have hours to do a full ride. Yes, there is a difference for many of us between a location like Big Sky Park and the Phil's trailhead.

    I managed to raise kids that learned to ride without a bike park. Many people in town will say the same. Hence the need to identify the benefits of a bike park and more importantly how they are better than what we already have (a world class trail system with a skill development area at Phils TH).
    You have ignored the reasons given. Proximity to a hell of a lot of people. Longer season. I will give you some others, you can create strata that can handle less than optimum weather, so you are not deteriorating the trail system during poor conditions. Ability to get a quick ride in during the time of year when daylight hours are in short supply. Quick place to test a bike out.

    The young kids I see at Phils are accompanied by adults. I would expect a bike park to be the same. Leaving young kids unsupervised at parks isn't a common practice that I have observed.
    Depends on the age, and a quick drop in can also mean mom stays there and plays with another kid doing something else. A place like Big Sky would be perfect for that, as one kid could be riding BMX, one riding mt. bike park, another could be playing soccer/lacrosse/little league, and another could be a rug rat playing on the play structure.

    Woodman stated that 40% of bike parkers do not trail ride.
    And those 40% may NEVER ride trails, never did. I have a hard time believing many riders that ride trails would stop riding them and just park ride. But I would bet a ton of kids that start at the park progress to trails.

    I certainly do not see how a park would be a detriment to our trail riding. For all the things our park district spends money on, there are some things that have the potential for getting the most use with the least investment (dog parks spring to mind), and I think a bike park like this could be just such a use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    Depends on the age, and a quick drop in can also mean mom stays there and plays with another kid doing something else. A place like Big Sky would be perfect for that, as one kid could be riding BMX, one riding mt. bike park, another could be playing soccer/lacrosse/little league, and another could be a rug rat playing on the play structure.
    This is a big factor. Many families have multiple kids of different ages, and they're at Big Sky all the time for soccer, lacrosse, etc. While one sibling plays in her soccer tournament the other sibling is looking for some way to kill time and it would be real easy to bring a bike along.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    Seems very close in to me, that is unless you live on the west side.
    Its only close if you live in the NE. Close-in to town it is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    In the past, it has taken me more than 45 minutes to get to Phil's from my kids' school on the northeast side, trying to get a ride in after school.
    45 mins? Seriously?

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    You have ignored the reasons given. Proximity to a hell of a lot of people.
    Most still have to get in a car if it is at Big Sky.

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    Longer season.
    The season at lower Phils is pretty long. I'm doubtful that a dirt track at Big Sky would last much longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    I will give you some others, you can create strata that can handle less than optimum weather, so you are not deteriorating the trail system during poor conditions.
    Great idea but won't that require even more money?

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    Depends on the age, and a quick drop in can also mean mom stays there and plays with another kid doing something else.
    If Mom stays its clearly not a drop off.

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    I certainly do not see how a park would be a detriment to our trail riding. For all the things our park district spends money on, there are some things that have the potential for getting the most use with the least investment (dog parks spring to mind), and I think a bike park like this could be just such a use.
    I wish dog parks got more use. Too much dog crap all over the trails and sidewalks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    If this thread is any indication, I don't think it would that hard to sell to the community. I count 9 yeas and 3 nays.
    If your numbers are correct then 25% of fairly passionate mtn bikers are saying nay. Hard to see how that supports your conclusion that it is an easy sell to the community.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    This is a big factor. Many families have multiple kids of different ages, and they're at Big Sky all the time for soccer, lacrosse, etc. While one sibling plays in her soccer tournament the other sibling is looking for some way to kill time and it would be real easy to bring a bike along.
    At what age range would you be comfortable allowing one of your unsupervised kids ride in a bike park (full of teens) while you are watching the other kid play soccer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    At what age range would you be comfortable allowing one of your unsupervised kids ride in a bike park (full of teens) while you are watching the other kid play soccer?
    Four.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Four.
    You would leave a 4 year old alone where you can't see or hear them? Really?

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    You would leave a 4 year old alone where you can't see or hear them? Really?
    I already have, and guess what? My kids are awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    Its only close if you live in the NE. Close-in to town it is not.
    Yes. Most employment, schools, residential development, etc. in Bend is east of the river. And it is largely flat ground. EASY ride from pretty much all the neighborhoods and employers everywhere around Boyd Acres, Butler Market, 27th Street, Highway 20 and down 15th Street, etc. over to Big Sky.

    45 mins? Seriously?
    Yes, it pissed me off. Later fall, dwindling daylight hours, and leaving my son's school at 3:30, 45 minutes to go across town at that time, took forever at a time we just did not have that much time to ride. Crazy for a town our size, but real.

    Most still have to get in a car if it is at Big Sky.
    Sure, but not much of a drive.

    The season at lower Phils is pretty long. I'm doubtful that a dirt track at Big Sky would last much longer.

    Great idea but won't that require even more money?
    Some of these things are relatively low investment options. Mixing some crushed rock with natural strata would be a relatively low cost development considering how much use it could generate.


    If Mom stays its clearly not a drop off.
    I specified a drop in

    I wish dog parks got more use. Too much dog crap all over the trails and sidewalks.
    Dog parks probably get used more than all other parks. They are fantastic.

    You know, it seems you are determined to find fault with the idea of mt. bike parks. Seems to me a good idea. At first I was even thinking that it might be a waste of money given how much great trail riding we have. But the more I think of it, the more it makes sense, and certainly does nothing but good for our trails, while providing a very different utility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    But the more I think of it, the more it makes sense, and certainly does nothing but good for our trails, while providing a very different utility.
    Same here. Development of recreational spaces is a big part of quality of life and Bend seems to be all over that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Same here. Development of recreational spaces is a big part of quality of life and Bend seems to be all over that.
    Yep.

    Hey, perfect world, there would be a big huge site right centrally located that was available for development of a bike park. I know Bill Smith, and he has already basically donated the land for the dog park, Les Schwab Amphitheater, and the volleyball courts, although all are in their current use on an indefinite basis. There is more land around there, but this is land that has a much higher and best use, much sooner . . . not likely an option for a bike park. Same will be the case for just about any larger site, although there are many that might be usable on an interim basis. Since Phil's is on the far west side of town, seems the far east end of town is a good option. There is also a ton of land up around Gopher Gulch, but there is currently nothing in the way of facilities there, which may be a significant hurdle which would not be present at Big Sky.

    Anyway, I'm going to have to see how others take this one as I've got a few too many irons in the fire to get active on this at this point. But I can offer opinions and support when needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    If your numbers are correct then 25% of fairly passionate mtn bikers are saying nay. Hard to see how that supports your conclusion that it is an easy sell to the community.
    Dirt Farmer said nay because he's Dirt Farmer and is core enough to be out on the trails 300+ days per year rain or shine, you said nay because I don't know what your problem is, and the third guy I have no idea because he bailed from the thread.

    I think that it would actually be the non-passionate or non-mountain bikers who would like it most -- easy access to something where they don't have to make a special trip to the mountains. Ride your bike while the kids play ball and have a picnic after while waiting for game #2 to start.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    Yep.

    Hey, perfect world, there would be a big huge site right centrally located that was available for development of a bike park. I know Bill Smith, and he has already basically donated the land for the dog park, Les Schwab Amphitheater, and the volleyball courts, although all are in their current use on an indefinite basis. There is more land around there, but this is land that has a much higher and best use, much sooner . . . not likely an option for a bike park. Same will be the case for just about any larger site, although there are many that might be usable on an interim basis. Since Phil's is on the far west side of town, seems the far east end of town is a good option. There is also a ton of land up around Gopher Gulch, but there is currently nothing in the way of facilities there, which may be a significant hurdle which would not be present at Big Sky.

    Anyway, I'm going to have to see how others take this one as I've got a few too many irons in the fire to get active on this at this point. But I can offer opinions and support when needed.
    I wonder how the Radlands is doing? Redmond kind of needed some place for people to go ride other than Dry Canyon and Bend or Sisters. Does it get much use?

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    Hard to believe a parent would drop their 4 year old off with a bunch of strangers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    Hard to believe a parent would drop their 4 year old off with a bunch of strangers.
    Have you been to a park lately?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    you said nay because I don't know what your problem is
    I haven't said nay. I'm asking the questions that will be asked if/when a proposal is put forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I think that it would actually be the non-passionate or non-mountain bikers who would like it most -- easy access to something where they don't have to make a special trip to the mountains.
    Did you really mean to say that access to our trail system is hard and requires a special trip to the mountains?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Have you been to a park lately?
    Yup. And I haven't seen any 4 year olds running around without supervision. Not one. And I certainly wouldn't expect to see a 4 yo dropped off alone in a bike park that was built to appeal to teens and adults.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    I haven't said nay. I'm asking the questions that will be asked if/when a proposal is put forward.
    If you say so. Are you sure you're not just arguing for the sake of arguing?

    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    Did you really mean to say that access to our trail system is hard and requires a special trip to the mountains?
    ...says the guy who thinks Steve Larsen trail is remote! Too funny.

    It's easy for those of us who want to go biking and know how to go biking but maybe not for those who never have. It's not a matter of physical proximity but of mental comfort with taking on something new and unfamiliar. It might be similar in concept to learning to rock climb in a gym before heading out to Smith Rock, or learning to swim in a pool before heading into Elk Lake.

    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    Yup. And I haven't seen any 4 year olds running around without supervision. Not one. And I certainly wouldn't expect to see a 4 yo dropped off alone in a bike park that was built to appeal to teens and adults.
    Okay would you feel more comfortable if I said six? How about seven? Eight? What's your minimum age to loosen the leash? How old are your kids?

    Why would the bike park appeal only to teens and adults? Look at the pics of the 7th Mountain Resort park.

    I'm heading out to run some errands now, lest you think I couldn't come up with any replies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    I took a mtn bike skills clinic and at least half of the time was spent working on skills in parking lots. My skills (especially cornering, braking, manualing, and bunny hopping) jumped by a significant percentage.
    Now imagine an area where you could further hone those parking lot skills without the need to ride up a trail but do it in a trail-like setting. Lets go further. Imagine learning those skills on the dirt before you rode a real trail.

    I'm not saying a bike park is substitute for experience, but it is nice to know how to tackle certain types of obstacles before hitting the trails, especially with young ones.

    Reading this thread, I'm starting to wonder if your disdain for a bike park is because you got schooled by a 8 year old hitting jumps and drops that you'd normally bypass...
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is youíll crash.
    - Julie Furtado

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    Once upon a time nay saying proposals was part of my job. I would try to think of every possible objection before hand and then address them all in the first proposal (many times we only got one shot). The other side was always looking for a reason to say no. The questions I'm asking here will get asked along with some that are much more difficult to answer.

    And yes, I could easily be schooled by a talented 8 year old, however it doesn't bother me in the least.

    Asking questions is much different than expressing an opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    ...says the guy who thinks Steve Larsen trail is remote! Too funny.
    I first characterized the location as being "off the beaten path" which was supported by the fact that no one here rode by the location for weeks. He'd still be there if I hadn't taken a large detour out of my 35 mile loop to grab him and place him back in the Phils complex.

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    It's clear StreamRider is nothing more than a Phil's-centric troll.

    I'd have to be pretty damned bored to bike Phil's in the summer time.

    "Off the beaten path" is what defines mountain biking, no?

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    "Asking questions is much different than expressing an opinion."

    Might I then ask you a question (without asserting my opinion). If a bike park is such a bad idea, then why are there 20+ folks on our SMR bike park right now at 6PM on a Monday?
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    "Asking questions is much different than expressing an opinion."

    "Might I then ask you a question (without asserting my opinion). If a bike park is such a bad idea, then why are there 20+ folks on our SMR bike park right now at 6PM on a Monday?"

    As a follow up question: If Bend does not want or need a bike park, then why was the kids bike skills course the most popular event at last years Day of Play (a Bend Parks and Recreation production)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    "Might I then ask you a question (without asserting my opinion). If a bike park is such a bad idea, then why are there 20+ folks on our SMR bike park right now at 6PM on a Monday?"
    Who said it was such a bad idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    As a follow up question: If Bend does not want or need a bike park, then why was the kids bike skills course the most popular event at last years Day of Play (a Bend Parks and Recreation production)?
    Not sure why you believe that one Parks and Rec event for young children implies that Bend "needs' or "wants" a bike park.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    Who said it was such a bad idea?

    Not me, I think it is a great idea. You continued questions are certainlly a negative tone, perhaps that is not your intent but many are reading it that way.



    Not sure why you believe that one Parks and Rec event for young children implies that Bend "needs' or "wants" a bike park.
    It certainly helps to form backbone of an argument. I have provided many other photos that also help form an argument that a bike park would be well used and loved.

    Should we send COTA a memo and tell them to stop building so much new trail because "we have so much"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    "Off the beaten path" is what defines mountain biking, no?
    Not when it comes to the YM game. Just look at the difference in the number of YM hiding places last summer (when he stayed mainly in Phils) and this summer. Maybe we could put another color in play for the upper areas. But don't use green since he'll be in one place long enough for moss to start growing.

    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    It's clear StreamRider is nothing more than a Phil's-centric troll.
    I'm a believer in earning the downhill segment of my rides so I start at Phils or Shevlin and climb up and out. There are enough options getting out that I don't get bored riding to higher ground. I have driven up to ride Edison but its not a favorite of mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    It certainly helps to form backbone of an argument. I have provided many other photos that also help form an argument that a bike park would be well used and loved.
    Your photos make the argument that a mini bike park for younger children would be popular for families. Nothing wrong with that but don't think that teens are looking at those photos and getting excited about riding with a bunch of preschoolers on push bikes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    Should we send COTA a memo and tell them to stop building so much new trail because "we have so much"?
    Apples and oranges. COTA is volunteer driven. Your centrally located and irrigated bike park idea is not so it needs the support of the community to fund it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    Your photos make the argument that a mini bike park for younger children would be popular for families. Nothing wrong with that but don't think that teens are looking at those photos and getting excited about riding with a bunch of preschoolers on push bikes.

    I am guessing I have spent more time in bike parks than you, and you do indeed see quite a mix of folks using them. This evening here we had several families, but also adult solo men in the mix. That is what makes them so cool. Last night we had a Hispanic family having a great time, and they have no idea where Phil's trailhead is. But at the same time we had young adult couple including a gal who works in a local bike shop. She noted: "I worked a full day today and don't have the energy for a bid trail ride, but catching a quick workout in a bike park is perfect"



    Apples and oranges. COTA is volunteer driven. Your centrally located and irrigated bike park idea is not so it needs the support of the community to fund it.
    Yes, there will need to be funding. But communities can fund raise and also help build. The best bike parks in my opinion have a contractor in charge, but volunteers can jump in and work directly to build a better park. I have built many that way. Parks and Rec are in the business of looking for trends and providing for good facilities. They see tennis slowing dying but pickleball increasing. It is their job to plan/design/build new recreational facilities, why not a bike park? Bike parks are in fact the fasting growing recreational facility in parks and rec right now, and cycling is one of the top two (the other is fishing) gateway sports for youth. baseball fields and the like cost oddles to build and maintain, but parks and rec depts across the US keep building them and maintaining them. Bike parks are a much better value: Cheaper to build and maintain, more people can use them, provide unstructured play which is what youth today need, and they burn calories unlike baseball fields.

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    Bend needs a bike park

    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    Not when it comes to the YM game. Just look at the difference in the number of YM hiding places last summer (when he stayed mainly in Phils) and this summer. Maybe we could put another color in play for the upper areas. But don't use green since he'll be in one place long enough for moss to start growing.



    I'm a believer in earning the downhill segment of my rides so I start at Phils or Shevlin and climb up and out. There are enough options getting out that I don't get bored riding to higher ground. I have driven up to ride Edison but its not a favorite of mine.
    This quote says quite a bit to me. I have always preferred to "earn my downhill, but there are a ton of times I would only have about an hour to work with in an afternoon, which would not give me enough time to drive out to Phil's and get a decent ride, but would have enough time to do a quick road ride from my house to a mt bike park, have some fun, & ride back, getting some exercise and fun. Hard to go to Phil's, ride up to a point where you can have a fun downhill, then go home in under about 2-1/2 hours, at least for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    I have always preferred to "earn my downhill, but there are a ton of times I would only have about an hour to work with in an afternoon, which would not give me enough time to drive out to Phil's and get a decent ride, but would have enough time to do a quick road ride from my house to a mt bike park, have some fun, & ride back, getting some exercise and fun.
    Your argument is great but only holds if the bike park is near your home. Look at the population density maps to see that the majority of Bends population will not be within a quick ride to Big Sky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    Not when it comes to the YM game. Just look at the difference in the number of YM hiding places last summer (when he stayed mainly in Phils) and this summer. Maybe we could put another color in play for the upper areas. But don't use green since he'll be in one place long enough for moss to start growing.
    Just think of every game you've ever played as a child.... don't most get progressively "more advanced" and more challenging as you get further into it? What's the point of playing a game of the same old difficulty rating all the time? Boooring!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
    Bike parks are in fact the fasting growing recreational facility in parks and rec right now, and cycling is one of the top two (the other is fishing) gateway sports for youth.
    Gateway to what?

    Participation numbers for biking on non paved surfaces:

    2006: 6,751,000
    2007: 6,892,000
    2008: 7,592,000
    2009: 7,142,000
    2010: 7,161,000
    2011: 6,816,000
    2012: 7,714,000

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    Bend needs a bike park

    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    Your argument is great but only holds if the bike park is near your home. Look at the population density maps to see that the majority of Bends population will not be within a quick ride to Big Sky.
    Seriously?

    Have seen how much multi-family and high-density single-family development is between Parrell & Eagle roads?

    As you are do quick to point out, you already have Phil's on the West Side. Seems it would make sense to Jane a bike park on the other side of town.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    Just think of every game you've ever played as a child.... don't most get progressively "more advanced" and more challenging as you get further into it? What's the point of playing a game of the same old difficulty rating all the time? Boooring!!
    What's booooring is having YM sit for weeks on end in a location that almost no one playing visits. But I like the idea of hiding another color out farther.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    Seriously?
    Check out the population density maps here:

    http://www.bendoregon.gov/modules/sh...cumentid=10847

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    Quote Originally Posted by sketchbook View Post
    Again, young kids can't get to any of these areas.

    Other than being a devil's advocate, what is your problem with a bike park in town?
    Dear World:

    The number of things not specifically geared towards me is too damn high!

    Thanks,

    Streamrider
    Only two infinite things exist: the universe and stupidity. And, I am unsure of the universe
    - Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Giggity View Post
    Dear World:

    The number of things not specifically geared towards me is too damn high!

    Thanks,

    Streamrider
    /thread!

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    1. Anything that gets kids outdoors from behind computers and video games is a great idea.

    2. The answer to "How many bike parks do you need?" is the same as "How many pair of skis do you need?". That answer is "Just one more!".

    Seriously, while not a big city, Bend isn't tiny, either. Nothing wrong with having several bike park-like places spread around. They don't all have to be of the same scope or caliber to see lots of use.
    Whining is not a strategy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dj giggity View Post
    dear world:

    The number of things not specifically geared towards me is too damn high!

    Thanks,

    streamrider
    ^this^
    BUILD,RIDE,REPEAT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    Check out the population density maps here:

    http://www.bendoregon.gov/modules/sh...cumentid=10847
    You are, again, ignoring points being made. There is a very dense population within a very easy ride of Big Sky. Also, very near employment and shopping (Forum, Cost-Co, Safeway) and the hospital. Also, giving a closer option to those on the east side, while those on the West Side already have both the trail system, and the new park up at 7th Mountain.

    Obviously, you just like to contest things. Whether it be where you think YM should be, whether there is any other way to introduce kids to biking (DRT being a good option for novice kids, even during the summer, while it may not be great for you or I as experienced riders who don't want to have to stop for hikers), etc. Now, that a bike park is not a good idea because it does not fit what you want. The pattern is very obvious.

  92. #92
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    A bike park wouldn't even have to be within riding distance for people to want to use it. People drive to Big Sky and Pine Nursery every day for other things and it would be easy for them to bring their bikes along too. Most people have no qualms about driving to ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    You are, again, ignoring points being made. There is a very dense population within a very easy ride of Big Sky.
    The density population maps show that the majority are not within an easy ride to Big Sky. Carefully review the age range maps to identify a location that would be centrally located.

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    DRT being a good option for novice kids, even during the summer, while it may not be great for you or I as experienced riders who don't want to have to stop for hikers
    I identified the busy summer weekends as the time to avoid. Can you think of a trail with more traffic then DRT during a summer weekend? BTW, in this thread someone mentioned that its difficult for novice riders to learn when they have to worry about others all around them and that was one of the reasons a bike park would be a benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    Now, that a bike park is not a good idea because it does not fit what you want.
    There is not a single post from me that says a bike park is not a good idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    A bike park wouldn't even have to be within riding distance for people to want to use it.
    Of course not. But it is a primary goal expressed starting with the first post of this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    1. Anything that gets kids outdoors from behind computers and video games is a great idea.

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    So StreamRider -- are you for or against building a bike park? It's a direct question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    So StreamRider -- are you for or against building a bike park?
    I think a centrally located bike park is a very interesting idea. If a good site and funds can be identified, and if it can be designed for all ages, I'd be for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    The density population maps show that the majority are not withing an easy ride to Big Sky. Carefully review the age range maps to identify a location that would be centrally located.
    Frankly, I don't think you have looked at your own density maps. I'm in the real estate industry, work around planning issues all the time, and am very well aware of where people live, but frankly all you have to do is drive around town and also note the type of development between Eagle Road and Parrell Road (or even west to Boyd Acres), north of Reed Market Road, and south of Empire (or Cooley, for that matter), to know that area is loaded with apartments and high-density residential development, which is quite obvious on the population density map. Further, all of that area is flat and within an easy ride of Big Sky or the Pine Nursery, and in an area that lacks proximity to other riding opportunities (other than the BMX track already at Big Sky) as well as a convenient drop-in/drop-off for a huge population near their homes, schools (Buckingham, Ponderosa, Lava Ridge, Bear Creek, etc.), and work.

    I identified the busy summer weekends as the time to avoid. Can you think of a trail with more traffic then DRT during a summer weekend? BTW, in this thread someone mentioned that its difficult for novice riders to learn when they have to worry about others all around them and that was one of the reasons a bike park would be a benefit.
    You did not just say to avoid weekends at peak times, you were more general in telling people to avoid the DRT. And you ignored my ACTUAL experience with my REAL-LIFE kids that had a blast, even with a bunch of people there. You and I have different interests when it comes to what makes a good ride, and most kids can use the little breaks when getting started. Further, if you treat the hikers well, they give all kinds of great complements to little kids riding. But more importantly, the DRT lacks dust, lacks big hills, lacks technical stuff, while offering neat things to look at and dip your feet in the water. The point is not to beat you with your past transgressions on specifics, but to point out that you tend to pass judgement on things by only what works for you, rather than considering what works for others. In the case of beginning kids, you have to think about what THEY would like. When talking about a bike park, you have to think of who is in the most need for such a public amenity (demographics and lack of similar offerings), as well as what would be most feasible.


    There is not a single post from me that says a bike park is not a good idea.
    And yet you are hell-bent to poo-poo the idea of a park on the east side, likely because it would not work as well for you. In the case of the bike park, an east-side location makes a hell of a lot of sense, for a longer season, for a population base that would see it as much more convenient than ANOTHER riding resource on the west side, for a site with all the essentials already present (eliminating a lot of costs and permitting), and considering that there really aren't any viable options in a truly central location.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    I think a centrally located bike park is a very interesting idea. If a good site and funds can be identified, and if it can be designed for all ages, I'd be for it.
    Centrally located would be great if the land was available and affordable. It's not. And there is a reason for that, the centrally located land is in highest demand, and is typically already developed. So, I guess that means you are against it.

    By the way, if something is not designed for all ages, it should not be pursued? So, I guess we should not have playgrounds or senior centers, either.

    Sheesh.

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    "By the way, if something is not designed for all ages, it should not be pursued? So, I guess we should not have playgrounds or senior centers, either."

    LOL, or dog parks. I am not a senior (getting closer), don't have kids, and don't have a dog but I see the good in and support the development of senior centers, kids playgrounds and dog parks.

    Every bike park I have seen has a wide range of users from wee kids on kicker bikes to teenagers to adults and everybody in between. Bike parks generally have a wider range of use socioeconomically speaking than trails in the woods (like Phil's network).

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    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    Frankly, I don't think you have looked at your own density maps.
    Take a look at both the 10-17 map and the 65+ map. If the goal is to be within easy riding distance for the majority of kids could there be a better location? Even if the goal of "centrally located" is tossed and replaced with "a central location on the east side of town", is Big Sky the best location?

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    You did not just say to avoid weekends at peak times, you were more general in telling people to avoid the DRT.
    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    I was hiking the DRT about 2 weeks ago on a Saturday. Why anyone would bother riding that area during a summer weekend is beyond me. Way too crowded.
    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    And you ignored my ACTUAL experience with my REAL-LIFE kids that had a blast, even with a bunch of people there.
    I have first hand experience with DRT that supports my opinion. Both riding and hiking.

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    And yet you are hell-bent to poo-poo the idea of a park on the east side, likely because it would not work as well for you.
    I have pointed out that Big Sky does not fulfill one of the primary goals expressed in this thread. BTW, my family is unlikely to use a bike park regardless of location.

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    Centrally located would be great if the land was available and affordable. It's not. And there is a reason for that, the centrally located land is in highest demand, and is typically already developed. So, I guess that means you are against it.
    Are you 100% certain that there aren't locations that would be closer to center than Big Sky?

    Quote Originally Posted by GauchoGreg View Post
    By the way, if something is not designed for all ages, it should not be pursued? So, I guess we should not have playgrounds or senior centers, either.
    All ages of children. Which could be a challenge. I bet that Woodman has some ideas on how to design a park that would keep a 17 yo interested while still having areas for younger riders.

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