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  1. #1
    newfydog
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    $600,000 paved parking lot at Phil's

    Anyone else think that is one stupid waste of our money? We need a paved parking to go mountain biking???? I'm going to ask the Forest Service and our congressmen to let dirt riders park on dirt. We can handle it, really.

    USDA Forest Service - Bend/Fort Rock Ranger District NEPA Projects - Phil's Trailhead Project

    If you wish to submit a comment, please send it to:

    Scott McBride
    1230 NE 3rd Street, A-262 , Bend, OR, 97701
    semcbride@fs.fed.us

  2. #2
    GEAUX TIGERS!!!
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    I agree. Maybe toilet facilities need to be revamped, but hey, Im good with doing it like the cougars do it.

  3. #3
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    WTF? Wouldn't want people to get mud splatters on their fancy SUVs, I guess.
    "People like GloyBoy are deaf. They are partisan, intellectually lazy & usually very angry." -Jaybo

  4. #4
    it means 'no problem'
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    There's a couple additional things to consider:
    1. This money is partially a grant and partially Fed Hwy's money - it came out of a competitive process...

    2. As such it can only be used for this project - if the Phil's project doesn't happen, that money will get used for some other trail head or pavement somewhere else...


    There is a healthy diversity of opinion on this one. For me, personally I go back to the question, "Who benefits from this?" The answer is easy - visitors and alter-abled folks who want a close-to-town area to visit.

    Easily 75% of the rides I do out of there, I am not driving my car.

    COTA also remains ADAMANT that under NO CIRCUMSTANCES will we tolerate any user fees at Phil's TH. The FS knows this. For those who see this trail head as one step closer to user fees, please be assured that COTA will strongly oppose user fees.

    Ask yourself - (as a local) - does this really affect your experience?
    "“May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Edward Abbey

  5. #5
    it means 'no problem'
    Reputation: sans soucie's Avatar
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    ... and if you think $600,000 is a waste, you should check here before you get your chamois in a bunch:


    50 Examples of Government Waste


    edit: I just love #7: Washington will spend $2.6 million training Chinese prostitutes to drink more responsibly on the job.[7]
    "“May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Edward Abbey

  6. #6
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    Yes I think the lot there is one of the best anywhere as is. I mean it's not like it's muddy out there in Bend! Dusty... sure. I'd much rather see 600K spent on fully irrigating some of the killer trails there. Just think... a tacky Phil's trail all summer from Whoops to the lot. That's 600K well spent. I'd pay admission to ride that.

  7. #7
    Afric Pepperbird
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    When I read this in the Bulletin yesterday, and they interviewed the woman who suggested a (very) nearby campground, I said "Yeah! A campground would be neat!"

    But on second thought, I hope not. There are tons of litter problems as it stands now at the TH. The last thing we need are drunken Yahoos getting destructive and rowdy while camping here. I'm glad the FS is against it.

    (This is not an indictment on most mountain bikers. Just the bad apples you know would mess the place up)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    When I read this in the Bulletin yesterday, and they interviewed the woman who suggested a (very) nearby campground, I said "Yeah! A campground would be neat!"

    But on second thought, I hope not. There are tons of litter problems as it stands now at the TH. The last thing we need are drunken Yahoos getting destructive and rowdy while camping here. I'm glad the FS is against it.

    (This is not an indictment on most mountain bikers. Just the bad apples you know would mess the place up)
    I really like the idea of using the money to put a campground in somewhere near, but not at the trail head. I used to be a local, but now I have to camp or stay in a hotel for weekend stays in Bend. Unfortunately, there is only dispersed camping near the trail network. I feel this causes more issues with garbage and land misuse than a campground with toilet and water facilities.

    Bend is an MTB destination, a campground near the trails would be a great addition to the area. Pavement at Phil's is not necessary, at least a campground would bring in fee's for the F.S.
    Portland Off Road Navagators

  9. #9
    it means 'no problem'
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    OK, let me reiterate:
    This money is either for the proposed project or the money doesn't come here.

    All the arguments saying, "why don't they spend it on ____" are moot.
    "“May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Edward Abbey

  10. #10
    Nat
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    I'm okay with it.

    Dutchman - paved/clean bathrooms
    Meissner - paved/clean bathrooms
    Swampy - paved/clean bathrooms
    Shevlin Park - paved/clean bathrooms
    Skyliner - paved/clean bathrooms
    Phil's - dirt/filthy outhouse

  11. #11
    it means 'no problem'
    Reputation: sans soucie's Avatar
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    ^ + Wanoga...
    "“May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Edward Abbey

  12. #12
    Nat
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    Yes, also Wanoga - paved/clean bathrooms. Thanks.

    I've ridden in a lot of other cities and states with developed parking at busy trailheads and it did not detract from the riding experience at all. It made for a nice gathering spot before and after the ride where people could eat, drink, and socialize. They were actually pretty nice to have.

  13. #13
    Keep Singletrack Single
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    Quote Originally Posted by sans soucie View Post
    ... and if you think $600,000 is a waste, you should check here before you get your chamois in a bunch:


    50 Examples of Government Waste


    edit: I just love #7: Washington will spend $2.6 million training Chinese prostitutes to drink more responsibly on the job.[7]
    Major +1 !!!
    Phil's Trail Steward for COTA
    http://www.cotamtb.com
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I'm okay with it.

    Dutchman - paved/clean bathrooms
    Meissner - paved/clean bathrooms
    Swampy - paved/clean bathrooms
    Shevlin Park - paved/clean bathrooms
    Skyliner - paved/clean bathrooms
    Phil's - dirt/filthy outhouse
    So true. I think it will work well. Plus....we could use anything to increase tourism in Bend. We need the $$$$ in our local economy. Phil's and our trails in general are a major draw.
    Phil's Trail Steward for COTA
    http://www.cotamtb.com
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  15. #15
    newfydog
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    Quote Originally Posted by sans soucie View Post
    OK, let me reiterate:
    This money is either for the proposed project or the money doesn't come here.

    All the arguments saying, "why don't they spend it on ____" are moot.
    The money originates in the Federal budget. About a 1,300 billion of that is deficit. I really don't want to borrow from the Chinese to pave Phil's. We need to stop worrying about what Bend gets, and point this out to our elected officials as another stupid expenditure, the type of waste we should reject as Americans, not condone as Bendites.

    And I'm a liberal democrat.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by newfydog View Post
    The money originates in the Federal budget. About a 1,300 billion of that is deficit. I really don't want to borrow from the Chinese to pave Phil's. We need to stop worrying about what Bend gets, and point this out to our elected officials as another stupid expenditure, the type of waste we should reject as Americans, not condone as Bendites.

    And I'm a liberal democrat.
    Good points. Cannot disagree and I am very Conservative. Maybe you and I go solve this thing!!
    Last edited by willem3; 02-24-2012 at 07:21 PM.
    Phil's Trail Steward for COTA
    http://www.cotamtb.com
    Phil's Trail Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PhilsTrail

  17. #17
    Afric Pepperbird
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I'm okay with it.

    Dutchman - paved/clean bathrooms
    Meissner - paved/clean bathrooms
    Swampy - paved/clean bathrooms
    Shevlin Park - paved/clean bathrooms
    Skyliner - paved/clean bathrooms
    Phil's - dirt/filthy outhouse
    Hmmm, I don't know. Skyliners pit toilet is pretty nasty, too. I'd never drop a deuce there, as I'd be afraid of flies laying eggs up my you-know-what. I'd be pooping maggots for days.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
    I really like the idea of using the money to put a campground in somewhere near, but not at the trail head. I used to be a local, but now I have to camp or stay in a hotel for weekend stays in Bend. Unfortunately, there is only dispersed camping near the trail network. I feel this causes more issues with garbage and land misuse than a campground with toilet and water facilities.

    Bend is an MTB destination, a campground near the trails would be a great addition to the area. Pavement at Phil's is not necessary, at least a campground would bring in fee's for the F.S.
    we camp at specific spots in central oregon where you can hit the trails from camp, so i agree that more camping close to trails is a good thing

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by newfydog View Post
    The money originates in the Federal budget. About a 1,300 billion of that is deficit. I really don't want to borrow from the Chinese to pave Phil's. We need to stop worrying about what Bend gets, and point this out to our elected officials as another stupid expenditure, the type of waste we should reject as Americans, not condone as Bendites.

    And I'm a liberal democrat.
    That's what i was thinking. The attitude that we have to spend it or lose it is a huge problem i think. Or maybe the problem is more the fact that that sort of situation exists in the first place. Either way, spending it even if we don't really need it, because we'll lose it otherwise, seems like a bad idea. It will perpetuate spending where it isn't needed.

    There is nothing wrong with a dusty phils TH. I have no problem with a fundraiser or voluntary donations at the trailhead to raise money for improvements, but i don't think this is worthy of more general public funds.

    A camp ground may or may not be a good idea, but as Sans Soucie (is that Woody?) said, it's irrelevant to this particular batch of money.

    I posted my thought here several days ago and also emailed the gov. rep. Do Nothing a Possibility for Phils Trailhead ? Bike Around Bend

  20. #20
    I should be out riding
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    Quote Originally Posted by newfydog View Post
    The money originates in the Federal budget. About a 1,300 billion of that is deficit. I really don't want to borrow from the Chinese to pave Phil's. We need to stop worrying about what Bend gets, and point this out to our elected officials as another stupid expenditure, the type of waste we should reject as Americans, not condone as Bendites.

    And I'm a liberal democrat.
    This. Not to mention the solutions have less capacity then the current situation? That makes no sense.

  21. #21
    it means 'no problem'
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    Quote Originally Posted by newfydog View Post
    The money originates in the Federal budget. About a 1,300 billion of that is deficit. I really don't want to borrow from the Chinese to pave Phil's. We need to stop worrying about what Bend gets, and point this out to our elected officials as another stupid expenditure, the type of waste we should reject as Americans, not condone as Bendites.

    And I'm a liberal democrat.
    I agree. The level of waste "our" government commits is beyond absurd. The money is just getting printed for all kinds of crap adding to the defecit. I'm not arguing that point. I'm simply saying "the money is already spent" for THIS proposed project. The system is broken and whether we want Phil's paved or not will have zero effect on the system. It is a symptom of a much bigger problem, a very small symptom at that.

    Something that isn't broken is the local "public comment" system. If enough people argue against (or for a different configuration) this project it won't happen. Personally I think it would provide some benefit to those who use the trail head. Big picture aside, this seems good for the local economy. That's my 2¢ not yours.
    "“May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Edward Abbey

  22. #22
    newfydog
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    OK, wrote my letter to the powers that be.

    Thanks to Troys600 for the link. In it is the link for the 104 page study:

    http://a123.g.akamai.net/7/123/11558...LT2_117200.pdf

    As well as the official comment link whichis now open:
    Send your email to:

    comments-pacificnorthwest-deschutes-...rock@fs.fed.us

    The study was great to whip me into a frenzy. It is worse than I thought. Here's my comment, direct from the right wing nut job I'm turning into:

    "The proposed work on the trailhead of the Phil’s Trail complex is an absurd waste of money. In a time when we have record deficits, proposing expenditures as high as $761,500 to pave a parking area for mountain bike riders is ridiculous. The people are there to ride bikes on dirt. They can handle a dirt parking area.
    The 104 page study is a waste as well. It cites concerns that dirt might be compacted by the roadside, while suggesting cutting 64 trees and paving the ground over. It makes no mention that the entire area is next to a massive abandoned pumice pit, gravel practically devoid of any life.
    The forest service paid someone to go out there and count cars 87 days. They found, on average, 26 of them. For just $29,000 per car we can have a gold plated parking area. Just borrow the money from China.
    Any funds available for this project should be returned to the federal government. Anyone who wasted time on the evaluation needs to be reassigned to work the public actually needs."

  23. #23
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    Agree that deficit spending is not good (currently 0.43c for every $1 spent), but the majority of the money borrowed is owed to the US. Less than 8% is owed to China.

    Agree that spending 3/4 of a million $ on the Phil's TH parking lot is a big waste.

  24. #24
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    and in few years they will call....

    depave.org

    We have similar problems in France,in fact i think we call it "Corruption"
    It's a deal between the county and the company who makes roads and parking lot.

    they have no idea of what they are doing, the only thing important is to get deeper in a abyssal debt...

  25. #25
    newfydog
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Side View Post
    Agree that deficit spending is not good (currently 0.43c for every $1 spent), but the majority of the money borrowed is owed to the US. Less than 8% is owed to China.
    .
    Hey, don't confuse me with facts, I'm trying to be a right wing nut job. Worse than borrowing from China would be raising taxes on any of the job creators in those McMansions in Broken Top Highlands

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