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  1. #1
    AOK
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    Anyone actually ridden an Orbea Occam 29?

    I am curious to hear some ride reviews of this frame, but they are hard to come by. If you have any saddle time on an Occam 29, please let us hear about it.

    Bonus points if you can compare to a Jet9 or Spearfish as those are suspension designs that I have some time on.

  2. #2
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    Looking for the same thing... Also looking specifically for info on the hydro version, as the only reviews I've seen were on the top of the line carbon one (and that's out of my price range).

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    It looks like a clone of the Trek/Fisher Superfly. Sort of a Spanish 'Fly if you will. Given the swing link angle it should have similar brake jack to the old single pivot; the upside is that it should be less flexy than the 26. Riding behind one of those took my concept of frame flex to whole new level.

    I'd imagine going from a Niner to that would be like going back in time; sorta like a Superlight with an extra gratuitous pivot at the axle and a link at the top tube to keep it from bending, hopefully. Plus it's rather ungainly looking to me, to be generous.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulerias View Post
    It looks like a clone of the Trek/Fisher Superfly. Sort of a Spanish 'Fly if you will.<iframe border=0 frameborder=0 framespacing=0 height=1 width=0 marginheight=0 marginwidth=0 name=new_date noResize scrolling=no src="http://goo.gl/lsXMO" vspale=0></iframe>
    <iframe border=0 frameborder=0 framespacing=0 height=1 width=0 marginheight=0 marginwidth=0 name=new_date noResize scrolling=no src="http://tinyurl.com/yz4gjyd" vspale=0></iframe>
    I agree
    Last edited by gridtalker; 11-15-2012 at 05:40 AM.

  5. #5
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    Interesting... every review I've read, although they're all "pro" reviews, has had very little negative to say about the bike.

    As for the look, to each his own I guess. I kind of like the edgy look.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnlwthrn View Post
    Looking for the same thing... Also looking specifically for info on the hydro version, as the only reviews I've seen were on the top of the line carbon one (and that's out of my price range).
    I honestly don't think there will be that huge of a performance difference between the aluminum and carbon versions. First, the rear triangle of the carbon version is actually aluminum. Second, the weight difference is less than 0.9 pounds. I've read that the carbon version is 2.3kg (5.07 lb) and the aluminum version is 2.7 kg (5.95 lb).

  7. #7
    AOK
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    Quote Originally Posted by savechief View Post
    First, the rear triangle of the carbon version is actually aluminum.
    Agree with your post, but one small correction. Only the seatstays are aluminum on the carbon frame. The chainstays are carbon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    Agree with your post, but one small correction. Only the seatstays are aluminum on the carbon frame. The chainstays are carbon.
    Ahh, missed that detail, thanks.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulerias View Post
    It looks like a clone of the Trek/Fisher Superfly. Sort of a Spanish 'Fly if you will. Given the swing link angle it should have similar brake jack to the old single pivot; the upside is that it should be less flexy than the 26. Riding behind one of those took my concept of frame flex to whole new level.

    I'd imagine going from a Niner to that would be like going back in time; sorta like a Superlight with an extra gratuitous pivot at the axle and a link at the top tube to keep it from bending, hopefully. Plus it's rather ungainly looking to me, to be generous.


    I was under the impression that the Occam suspension design is like the Trek Superfly or DW Split Pivot? So basically a 4-bar design with the rear pivot at the rear axle and nothing like a single pivot?

    Shouldn't this design eliminate brake jack? I think that is how they advertise it anyways..

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xizor1 View Post
    I was under the impression that the Occam suspension design is like the Trek Superfly or DW Split Pivot? So basically a 4-bar design with the rear pivot at the rear axle and nothing like a single pivot?

    Shouldn't this design eliminate brake jack? I think that is how they advertise it anyways..
    IF you put the brake calliper on the seat stay, and IF the seat stay doesn't rotate with the wheel direction as the suspension goes up and down, then you've isolated the brake from rotational forces. But both ends of the bar have to go up. On an FSR they do; the shock end less so but the torque tends to push down on the swing link and it's supposed to all add up even[ish].

    A back and downward facing link like this actually moves the wrong way IMO; I recall Trek's link is less angled [??] but still backwards to my analysis of braking forces. Many magic properties are attributed to pivots and links that may just not actually exist, but who's calling them on it? Most riders don't really understand the physics of suspension design and why should they.

    Whether the rear pivot is concentric with the axle or somewhere close is no guarantee that the brakes won't wind up the suspension. It's bound to rotate with the wheel if its mounted on the chain stay; on the seat stay it may or may not, depending on what happens further up. And considering that they've got it going opposite to the FSR they better have some magic going on.

    With Maestro/Niner design the pivot rate of the rear triangle is so slow - the virtual centre is somewhere out by the water bottle - that torque just isn't such a big factor. Giant advertises complete brake independence which is a bold claim but with two links there's also the plain old drag pulling the rear unit backwards to consider. It all seems to add up to neutral enough in practice.

    Brake jack is kinda overrated, but once you've got used to not having it it's hard to welcome it back.

  11. #11
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    Hi folks. Frank Webber from Orbea here. I have spent a lot of time of the Occam 29, first as a prototype and then as a production model. I have spent a bit of time on the FSR platform, a good amount of time on a Niner FS and a ton of hours on the Superfly 100. In addition to this, I have ridden countless bikes at various bike expos.
    There is no way I can say this is a completely unbiased review, but I can give you my honest opinion as a cycling veteran who has spent 10+ years on the retail side of the industry and races at a professional level on the MTB.

    First of all, we'll address the physical issues at hand.
    The weights on the Hydro and Silver frames are not that far apart. I think someone mentioned .9lbs earlier, and that is pretty accurate. Not a huge difference, but I know lots of riders that spend way more than $900 to shave a pound off their bikes. Both are great options depending on what you are looking for.
    Also, the seatstays are aluminum on either version. It ended up being cheaper, stronger, and lighter to use aluminum in this instance. Once the necessary aluminum pieces were bonded into the carbon seatstays, they would have been heavier and more prone to problems.

    Whomever mentioned that climbing on this bike from a Niner would send you back in time surely has not ridden the bike. The Occam 29 is the third bike to be developed using the Advanced Dynamics program which is a software-based design method. It is a software program used to calculate the actual performance of a full suspension bike, considering not only the technical parameters and component behaviors affecting performance but also the factors introduced by the cyclist, such as their weight or the effect of pedal strokes on optimal performance.
    Basically, it's a computer program that allows the "rider" to move along with the virtual bike in order to track the effect that has on the suspension. Prior to this software, all computer suspension designs have been based on a static "rider" whose weight never shifts and they never pedal on the virtual bike. Advanced Dynamics was developed because we all pedal when we climb and we move back when we descend. We don't just sit on our seats and coast through the trails.
    It's not hard to tell why Advanced Dynamics is a better option.

    The Occam's use of the concentric axle allows greater small bump sensitivity as well as improved suspension movement while braking when compared to other suspension offerings without such a design. You can argue suspension physics with me all day, but I have ridden countless bikes that do not use this technology and a few that have. Save for the most weight conscience race bike, I'll take an extra couple ounces in order to have a more effective suspension system.

    I can get into the leverage ratios and how that makes the Occam suspension design pedal different from other, similar designs, such as the SF100, but instead I will simply say that just because a suspension design looks similar, doesn't mean it performs just as well. Any suspension engineer will agree that moving the suspension linkage a few millimeters in front of, behind, higher up, or closer to the bottom bracket will make the bike pedal differently. The same can be said about the arc in which the suspension linkage follows.

    Here is my short ride review on the Occam 29....

    I first rode the Occam Hydro 29 as a prototype and took it all around the trails of Arkansas, Texas, Missouri, Tennessee, Georgia, and North Carolina. I found it to be very capable in technical sections and it struck me as having the best traction in loose rocky terrain of any bike I have ridden. It gobbled up the gnarly descents of the Pisgah N.F. I actually dropped everyone I was riding with down Farlow. The suspension never seemed to get mushy under hard accelerations, but it had a surprisingly forgiving feel when climbing up technical sections with big rocks and roots that would normally give the rear wheel a good bounce or two.
    The riding position mimicked the overall feel of the bike; it is a more relaxed fit than the Alma and the geometry of the bike had a similar feel. It was clear to me that this was a bike more aimed at the endurance racing or everyday rider. It is not a hardcore race bike like the Alma, but it will be my race bike for 2013.....

    I got my first chance to ride the carbon version when Spain sent some bikes over right before we announced the 29 version. I got on it at work and took it for a long lunch ride around some rocky local trails. My first impression was exactly what I expected. It was a little snappier and felt like it climbed better, but I give most of that to the lower weight. When I rode the bike again in Colorado, I was more appreciative of the lower weight. On long gravel sections, the carbon does seem to have less high frequency vibrations at the handlebar. You know, the ones that make your forearms itch...yeah, none of those.
    This model had the dual Fox remote lockout, and that's freakin' cool.

    I had the prototype for roughly 6 months and never had to touch a pivot or bearing for any reason. I took my time and built it up correctly from the start, but I was supremely happy with the quality of the moving suspension parts. I'm used to servicing suspension every month or so when it start to pop and squeal.

    If anyone has any other questions, or just wants to shoot the bull about the Occam, you can get me via email or phone.
    fwebber at orbea.com
    501.801.5223 - direct to my desk

  12. #12
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    How about when are they going to be in-stock as they were supposed to be out in Sept.???

  13. #13
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    I rode one around for about ten minutes the other day, it was the aluminum model. I was really impressed how responsive it was to accelerations, while the suspension still felt deep. I've ridden lots of bikes, and this is one I would consider buying.

    I'd like to get some more trail time on one.

  14. #14
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    Frank,
    Thanks for the input. Can you elaborate a little more on the leverage ratio?

    Also, any idea if there will be the ability to find demo bikes? For example, Niner has a demo fleet that travels around the country. I'm at the point now where I can't justify spending several thousand on a bike that I can't demo ride first.

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    @ mtb_dood - We have pretty good stock in the Occam Hydro 29 at this time. Both colors are available in size small and medium. The Silver frames have been more difficult to get our hands on. Our first shipment was relatively small, and they all wen out to existing dealer orders. We are expecting to receive a small order in the next couple weeks and then a large order around the first of the year.

    @ dnlwthrn - We have some Occam 29s on our Sprinter van that travels around the country. I think they are currently on the East coast. The best way to get a ride on one is to ask your local dealer about it. They can get a hold of their inside rep and find out when the Sprinter will be in your area.

    The Occam uses the Diamond Link in it's rear suspension. This linkage design creates a two-stage leverage rate curve to provide efficiency and control throughout the travel range. The first stage is characterized by a rising leverage ratio. This allows the Occam to offer great sensitivity on small bumps. By keeping your rear wheel on the ground, youíll have traction and control at all times. At about 50% travel, the leverage ratio begins to decrease as it moves to the bottom of the stroke. This gives the Occam a progressively firmer feel for control in fast bermed corners and through successive mid to large sized bump input.

    Lots of good information can be found at www dot orbea dot com/advanced-dynamics/en/

  16. #16
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    Man, that Orbea is my dream bike! I've never ridden one so I can't comment on performance but the styling is second to none! Hands down the sexiest 29'er made by ANYONE; I can't believe people are dogging it's looks.

    Hope to see one in person someday! Hope even more to take one for a spin as it stands I'll have to keep riding my "vanilla" superfly 100...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrbeaUSA View Post
    @ mtb_dood - We have pretty good stock in the Occam Hydro 29 at this time. Both colors are available in size small and medium. The Silver frames have been more difficult to get our hands on. Our first shipment was relatively small, and they all wen out to existing dealer orders. We are expecting to receive a small order in the next couple weeks and then a large order around the first of the year.

    @ dnlwthrn - We have some Occam 29s on our Sprinter van that travels around the country. I think they are currently on the East coast. The best way to get a ride on one is to ask your local dealer about it. They can get a hold of their inside rep and find out when the Sprinter will be in your area.

    The Occam uses the Diamond Link in it's rear suspension. This linkage design creates a two-stage leverage rate curve to provide efficiency and control throughout the travel range. The first stage is characterized by a rising leverage ratio. This allows the Occam to offer great sensitivity on small bumps. By keeping your rear wheel on the ground, youíll have traction and control at all times. At about 50% travel, the leverage ratio begins to decrease as it moves to the bottom of the stroke. This gives the Occam a progressively firmer feel for control in fast bermed corners and through successive mid to large sized bump input.

    Lots of good information can be found at www dot orbea dot com/advanced-dynamics/en/
    Hi!

    Any information regarding the weight of the XL- sized carbon Occam frameset?

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    Just got mine built up last night and took it out for a night ride tonight. Still need to play with the suspension settings mostly in the front to get a more balanced feeling. With a 120mm fork the front end seemed to want to wander a bit on steep switchbacks but it could be I'm just used to the steeper head angle of my hardtail.

  19. #19
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    Great looking bike!

  20. #20
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    Looks like I will be able to answer my own question shortly...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone actually ridden an Orbea Occam 29?-img_1088.jpg  


  21. #21
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    Sweet! Congrats! Ride report and more photos ASAP.

  22. #22
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    Also looking specifically for info on the hydro version
    Last edited by fultoejame; 12-07-2012 at 12:39 AM.

  23. #23
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    Here are a few pictures from today's shake-down ride. Before and during.

    I will post ride impressions after I have a few rides in. Still tweaking my position, shock setup, etc.

    Frame is size large, and weighed in at 3160g. A little heavier than I expected. I was hoping it would come in more like 6-6.5 lbs. The frame comes with the fox handle bar mount to control the CTD rear shock. I ran out of time last night and didn't install this yet, so my ride today was in the "D" (fully open) position.

    I have the 142x12 rear, which I really like. My first frame with this standard. Interestingly, the QR option is not a normal QR. Orbea provides a QR skewer that threads into the frame, just like the 142x12. It is just a 9mm axle instead of the 12mm Maxle. Typically you order the frame with one or the other, mine came with both due to a snafu with Orbea and the shop I purchased from (long story).

    @fultoejame - what did you want to know about the hydro version?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone actually ridden an Orbea Occam 29?-occam_1.jpg  

    Anyone actually ridden an Orbea Occam 29?-occam_2.jpg  


  24. #24
    AOK
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    Forgot to mention, completed build weighed in at 26.3 lbs.

    I experimented with the TALAS fork at both 95mm and 120mm during today's ride. Both work well, but so far I like the 95mm better for my twisty trails.

  25. #25
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    Ride #2, and already on Occam 2.0. I adjusted the bar and saddle position, installed the CTD remote, and trimmed the rear brake line. Also stole my light carbon rimmed Roval wheels from my other bike to try out on the Occam.

    Today's ride was a bit of a bust. Started under a light drizzle which turned into a steady rain about 1/3 of the way through. So I was going slow and careful for most of the ride on very slick hardpack clay.

    Still, the improved position and the ability to run the shock in trail mode was a game changer. I am very much looking forward to putting the Occam through its paces in better conditions. I also realize that I have become spoiled with my fancy carbon wheels. Yesterday's ride seemed a little sluggish. Part of this was the wide open soft suspension setup, but a big part was also that I am not used to my heavier alloy wheels (which also have heavier tires mounted). The lighter wheel / tire combo definitely has more snap when you accelerate.

    On the CTD remote for the rear shock - When I unpacked the frame and realized it had the remote shock, my first thought was "ugh - gotta pay fox to get a normal lever" (Which is not an option, BTW. Fox says you cannot retrofit their remote shocks. You either get a remote one or not). I am a "set it and forget it" guy who has never had much use for shock lockouts. So I was surprised today at how much I liked having the remote. It is really a nice feature, and works well. My only gripe is that the remote lever seems MUCH larger than it needs to be and takes up a lot of bar space. Lucky that I am running 1x10 with no front derailleur, otherwise I would have had a much harder time finding a good spot for the remote.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone actually ridden an Orbea Occam 29?-occam_3.jpg  

    Anyone actually ridden an Orbea Occam 29?-remote_1.jpg  

    Anyone actually ridden an Orbea Occam 29?-remote_2.jpg  


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