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  1. #1
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    Carbon 456: which headset

    Building a carbon 456, gonna pair it up with a 2012 fox 150 rlc tapered. Which headset besides the smoothie to get? I asked on-one and they told me to get a integral top cup with a traditional 1.5" bottom. I think only hope offers pick n mix combos. Any recommendations?

  2. #2
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    I believe a lot of other companies are offering options, a tapered head tube is pretty common. I'll be needing to order one myself, I believe Crane Creek, Chris King, and Hope are the brands that I'll be looking at.

  3. #3
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    I've been looking ard at Crc, saw the hope pick n mix. On-one told me to get the integral top cup 1 1/8 with a tradition external cup 1 1/2 if I want to run the tapered. The headtube being so short on the c456 was wondering should I run an external traditional cup too for the top. I don't have to cut my steerer too short with this setup I guess. I don like to use too much spacers myself

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by joezuri View Post
    I've been looking ard at Crc, saw the hope pick n mix. On-one told me to get the integral top cup 1 1/8 with a tradition external cup 1 1/2 if I want to run the tapered. The headtube being so short on the c456 was wondering should I run an external traditional cup too for the top. I don't have to cut my steerer too short with this setup I guess. I don like to use too much spacers myself
    I don't know if you can get a traditional external bearing top cup in the 44mm size required for this frame. Not that someone out there doesn't make one, just never seen it. I also have a 456C and I'm running an inexpensive tapered Cane Creek with an inset/zerostack/integral 44mm top cup and external bearing 1.5" lower cup. Good headset, no problems but I do have to run about 1.5" of spacers to get a proper bar height but not a big deal and doesn't look bad at all.

    Hope makes great headsets so I'm sure you'll be happy with it but whatever headset you get, make sure you like it and that's it's of good quality since it is not easy to remove the bottom cup.

    There is a protruding lip on the lower head tube insert that prevents you from removing the lower cup using a traditional headset remover. I was planning to upgrade to a Chris King Inset 3 headset and asked On-One about this. They recommended putting the lower cup in a bench vise and turning the frame to loosen it. I decided to just keep the Cane Creek.


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by joezuri View Post
    Building a carbon 456, gonna pair it up with a 2012 fox 150 rlc tapered. Which headset besides the smoothie to get? I asked on-one and they told me to get a integral top cup with a traditional 1.5" bottom. I think only hope offers pick n mix combos. Any recommendations?

    For those of you looking for a bit more fun, we will have a 2deg "Slackset" available in a couple of weeks to angle adjust your 456 back to something a little more stable and "fun". Steepens the seat angle and drops the BB a bit too. All good. My idea as I love the handling of the Summer Season frames, which is why Ragley frames ended up all kicked out at the front.

    Also good if you want to run a shorter fork, but still have a slack head angle.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by joezuri View Post
    Building a carbon 456, gonna pair it up with a 2012 fox 150 rlc tapered. Which headset besides the smoothie to get? I asked on-one and they told me to get a integral top cup with a traditional 1.5" bottom. I think only hope offers pick n mix combos. Any recommendations?
    Our Smoothie Mixer is a good unit with easily replaceable cartridge bearings. I have been riding two different bikes -- including a 456 Carbon -- with the Mixer since February without any issues.
    UK site
    USA site
    For a tapered fork you need to order the 1.5" crown race separately.

    The S.H.I.S. spec is ZS44 top (Zero Stack, 44mm), EC49 bottom (External Cup, 49mm).
    In addition to On-One, at least Cane Creek, Chris King and FSA offer this size.
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  7. #7
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    Thanks for the replies. My bad I thot the traditional hope top cup will fit.. Saw the dimensions and realised it's too small for the c456 top head. I ll try looking for the cane creeks instead.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    For those of you looking for a bit more fun, we will have a 2deg "Slackset" available in a couple of weeks to angle adjust your 456 back to something a little more stable and "fun". Steepens the seat angle and drops the BB a bit too. All good. My idea as I love the handling of the Summer Season frames, which is why Ragley frames ended up all kicked out at the front.

    Also good if you want to run a shorter fork, but still have a slack head angle.
    And this will work with a tapered steer tube?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by weaver84 View Post
    And this will work with a tapered steer tube?
    no.
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  10. #10
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    I use a Cane Creek 110 on my 456 Ti. It took months to arrive (maybe they have stock now) but it is a top piece of kit! Their webstore lets you buy individual top/bottom. They also have an upper that is high rise.

    I also tried a cheap FSA headset (while waiting for the 110) and it was terrible.

  11. #11
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    If you have a straight steer tube 1 1/8, will the (cane creek) external cup 49 conversion bottom work? It looks like the internal race has about a 9mm difference as listed online.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by weaver84 View Post
    If you have a straight steer tube 1 1/8, will the (cane creek) external cup 49 conversion bottom work? It looks like the internal race has about a 9mm difference as listed online.
    I'm using the Hope pick-n-choose setup and it's been awesome. It's light, uses decent sealed bearings, and it comes with races for tapered and 1 1/8" forks.
    Support your local advocacy group: FVMBA!

  13. #13
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    Just built up a 456 Carbon and have used the mixer. Nice piece of kit.

  14. #14
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    Frosticles and Robot, did you find a hope lower which is external? i have an on-one Smoothie in my c456 and the lower is quite deep, perhaps 9mm extending out of the headtube. It works really well but Im fed up with the smoothie non-split crown race so considering a change.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by foureyes View Post
    Frosticles and Robot, did you find a hope lower which is external? i have an on-one Smoothie in my c456 and the lower is quite deep, perhaps 9mm extending out of the headtube. It works really well but Im fed up with the smoothie non-split crown race so considering a change.
    I'm running a Hope 1.5" - 1 1/8" Stepdown (traditional) for the lower cup and a Hope 1 1/8" Integral for the top cup. I ordered mine with the frame and it came with both 1 1/8" and 1.5" crown races. I've had no issues with the headset since I installed it in the frame.

    Pick'n'Mix - Hope PicknMix headset product details

    Options D and 2, respectively. The picture on the Hope site shows the low stack option but the traditional one should be available.

    Edit: If all you want is a split crown race and the Smoothie uses sealed bearings, you should just be able to cut the race with a hacksaw. I've done that for years with many different brands of headsets and never had any problems.
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  16. #16
    Axe
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    The question was not answered - any compatibility issues with ZS49 bottom? Enough clearance for fork knobs?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    The question was not answered - any compatibility issues with ZS49 bottom? Enough clearance for fork knobs?
    The guys in the UK are using the Slackset (ZS bottom). Have not heard of clearance issues.
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  18. #18
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    The guys in the UK are using the Slackset (ZS bottom). Have not heard of clearance issues.
    But slackset angles the fork out a bit. Oh, well, will just take a look before ordering bits.

  19. #19
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    sorry to necro a thread, but I just wanted to let anyone know for future searching purposes that the Chris King part number you are looking for for the c456 frame is 'inset 3', part# FB0046, where the 'B' designates color code (this one is black, for instance).

  20. #20
    All That is Man
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    Also in case anyone searches this topic, here is what I used:

    Cane Creek 40 Series
    Top: ZS44 - 1-1/8" (Zero Stack)
    Bottom: EC49/40 - 1.5" (Traditional)

    Weight is roughly 130g
    John

  21. #21
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    Has anyone replaced the lower bearing in their Smoothy mixer headset? Mine is all gritty but cant find any details of bearing spec/ size on the on-one site?
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  22. #22
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    Hey all
    I'm changing my forks on my 456c to tapered. I have the Hope integral Top cup but need to change the bottom cup.
    Is the last item here: Hope Pick n Mix Headsets - Bottom Cup | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com
    the one that I want?
    Also, will a normal cup removal tool : X-Tools Headset Cup Remover | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com
    like this do the job? I've heard that the cups are a pain to remove..
    Thanks
    Steve

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by deesta View Post
    Hey all
    I'm changing my forks on my 456c to tapered. I have the Hope integral Top cup but need to change the bottom cup.
    Is the last item here: Hope Pick n Mix Headsets - Bottom Cup | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com
    the one that I want?
    Also, will a normal cup removal tool : X-Tools Headset Cup Remover | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com
    like this do the job? I've heard that the cups are a pain to remove..
    Thanks
    Steve
    I have the Park Tools version of the headset cup remover you are looking at and I could not get the splines to contact the lower headset cup on my Cane Creek. There is a lip on the lower head tube insert that gets in the way. Not sure if this will also be an issue with your lower cup.

    I was advised by On-One to put the lower cup in a bench vise and turn the frame to loosen it. I haven't actually tried this method yet but I am planning to install the Works Slackset on my 456 frame when I find the time so I'm happy to post back my results but do let us know what ends up working for you too.

  24. #24
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    anyone try using a ZS bottom cup instead of the trad external cup?

  25. #25
    some know me as mongo
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    I'm sure someone has on this bike. the only thing is that you need to have a 1.125" (1 1/8") steerer to do this. it will also lower the front end of your bike by about 10-15mm and steepen the headtube angle by about .5* as well.

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