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Thread: 650b 456?

  1. #1
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    650b 456?

    So with the 650b getting so much coverage, any thoughts Brant on a 650b 456 frame?
    I would think you are close already with the existing 456 frame, just need some minor tweaks.

    It appears a 650b rear tire is close to fitting already, just need an adjustment on the brace that extends at the seat stay junction. Maybe some adjustment for bottom bracket height?

    Have you given it any thought at all? Just curious.
    2009 Intense Tracer VP / On-One 456 / '99 Homegrown Factory

  2. #2
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    2.5in tyres fit, 650B ones will too.

    I see no point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    2.5in tyres fit, 650B ones will too.

    I see no point.
    Really? A 650b wheel will fit on the rear of the current steel 456? Wow I thought it looked like too small of an opening. If so I agree, no point in a new frame.

    Anyone try this? How's the clearance? Photo?
    2009 Intense Tracer VP / On-One 456 / '99 Homegrown Factory

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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Ryder View Post
    Really? A 650b wheel will fit on the rear of the current steel 456? Wow I thought it looked like too small of an opening. If so I agree, no point in a new frame.

    Anyone try this? How's the clearance? Photo?
    Why would anyone want to run a skinnier tyre, with less tyre choice?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    Why would anyone want to run a skinnier tyre, with less tyre choice?
    Is this comment a joke? If its not then Titus/One One/ Planet X is a lot more backwards than I thought.
    2012 On One Whippet 650b
    2012 Santa Cruz TRc 650b
    2014 On One Dirty Disco
    2010 Soma Groove
    1987 Haro RS1

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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    Is this comment a joke? If its not then Titus/One One/ Planet X is a lot more backwards than I thought.
    Seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    Why would anyone want to run a skinnier tyre, with less tyre choice?
    Not sure what you mean. I don't want to run a skinnier tire, I would like to run a 2.3 tire on a larger diameter rim, a 27.5" rim. I have a 26" rim on my 456 now, not sure I want to make the jump to a 29er right now. Thinking 27.5" (650b) might be a good choice.

    I just want to know if I build a 650b (27.5") wheel if it will fit on my steel 456. By looking at it, it appears to be too small of an opening. I read on another post that it does not fit. The brace that connects the seat stay appears to extend too far to fit a 650b wheel.

    I'm aware I can run a 2.5" tire on there now. Not sure why I would want to have that much rolling resistance out back. So I know the space is wide enough but will the larger diameter fit?
    2009 Intense Tracer VP / On-One 456 / '99 Homegrown Factory

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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Ryder View Post
    Really? A 650b wheel will fit on the rear of the current steel 456? Wow I thought it looked like too small of an opening. If so I agree, no point in a new frame.

    Anyone try this? How's the clearance? Photo?
    There is only 2-3mm of vertical clearance at the wishbone with a NeoMoto 650Bx2.3. Not much room for debris. Plenty of room otherwise.
    mtbtires.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    Is this comment a joke? If its not then Titus/One One/ Planet X is a lot more backwards than I thought.
    This tweet explains it IMHO: https://twitter.com/shedfire/status/205627825833771008

    brant ‏@shedfire There's huge future for 650b. Allowing one inner tube to fit either 26in or 29in wheels. Other than that, pointless/stupid.

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    Thanks Shiggy. That might be a bit tight. Then again, maybe not.
    2009 Intense Tracer VP / On-One 456 / '99 Homegrown Factory

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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Well thats pretty lame. I bought an On One Whippet because I thought that they were pretty supportive of 650b, at least Shiggy seemed to be. I even recommend them to people looking for a carbon 650b hardtail. Being a big fan of 650b I like to support companies that support 650b. I would have bought something else had I known they were so closed minded.
    2012 On One Whippet 650b
    2012 Santa Cruz TRc 650b
    2014 On One Dirty Disco
    2010 Soma Groove
    1987 Haro RS1

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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    Well thats pretty lame. I bought an On One Whippet because I thought that they were pretty supportive of 650b, at least Shiggy seemed to be. I even recommend them to people looking for a carbon 650b hardtail. Being a big fan of 650b I like to support companies that support 650b. I would have bought something else had I known they were so closed minded.
    I may be being reactionary. I am happy that 650B wheels fit. We have no intentions to support 650B as a standard wheel size going forward as I think it's a distraction, a red herring, a dead end.

    We're delighted with the performance of 29in wheels though, and have had tremendous results with riders of 5'7" and smaller on even 140mm travel bikes.

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    Well was hoping for a 650B specific carbon or Ti 456 sometime, seems it's going to be a long wait. Probably will go for the 26'' carbon model once it gets in stock again, ride it and if I can borrow a 650B wheelset I can see how that goes as well (although the revelation fork might complicate that).

    The lowered BB of the Evo does help a little for 650B. Only thing you need to do is get a slackset steepening headangle to reduce the trail again. Perhaps for someone used to taking ideas a bit further than the average, 650B seems a bit half-baked. Anyway, I think he'll turn around eventually (probably due to market demand).
    Last edited by CS645; 05-30-2012 at 12:35 PM.

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  15. #15
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    On-one joins my list of bikes (along with Santa Cruz) to avoid due to the recent 650b comments of the designers. Having options of wheel size vs. rider "size" is a step in the right direction. Both companies make great bikes. I still like some models of each. Just putting my bike money where it makes the most sense (for me).
    Different horses for different courses, I guess.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1spd1way View Post
    On-one joins my list of bikes (along with Santa Cruz) to avoid due to the recent 650b comments of the designers. Having options of wheel size vs. rider "size" is a step in the right direction. Both companies make great bikes. I still like some models of each. Just putting my bike money where it makes the most sense (for me).
    Different horses for different courses, I guess.
    Could you post a link and name for the designer from Santa Cruz please. I'd like to have a read of that. Cheers.

  17. #17
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    Will do. I will have to do the research. it was an interview about a month ago. When asked, he replied that requests for 650b was a pain in the a$$. More when i find the interview.

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    Well, I know I don't have to chime in on this, but I'm gonna... What the heck, I had a great ride today, hot as hades, and a few beers to cool off, so I am ripe for sharing my opinion

    I am with Brant on this for sure. I have been riding MTB since 1990. Every evolution of development carries this same feel. Don't buy into the media hype. If you want to be faster, ride better etc.... ride more.

    The evolution follows this cycle... every time...
    1) A few small companies do it and are dismissed by the MTB media and "leaders"
    2) One or two bigger companies catch it, in this case KHS and Jamis.
    3) Somewhere in MTB media land the decision is made to support it and BAM!

    The new whatever is the end all and be all. (Clearly us who still ride 26ers are cavemen!) I hate this cycle, clearly driven by marketing a need to sell bikes. Hey I got it and support it, just am amused that each new trend becomes "THE" way/bike/wheel size/suspension to ride.

    We saw it with 24, 27 and 30 gears, front suspension, full sus, All Mtn, 29er, tubeless, now 650b. Think about it.

    I admit to having done it all... right up to the 29er. I balked at that and then when I had to replace my last Summer Season, was lucky enough to have a local bike shop lend me a Niner MCR. I rode it, liked it, but "OMG, such a great improvement in the ride"?

    No.

    Back onto a new Summer Season frame. Front fork yes. Gears - 1. Love it.

    Besides, I have t support Brant, as i was looking into On One, he helped me select the frame even though he was with the Pig at that moment. FWIW, the real question is will On one continue to make steel Summer Season frames, or should I buy enough to last a lifetime now?

    Don't buy into the MTB media hype... If you want to ride faster better etc... Ride more

    Rant over, thanks for your patience and understanding, hope to see you passing me on the trail

    John
    On One Summer Season Single Speed

  19. #19
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    once again, different horses for different courses.
    I also support the 29er movement, the 96er movement, the fatbike movement..etc.
    When 29ers came out, the 26er world cried foul. Now, the tire size is a viable wheel size. Works well for some, not for others.
    When 5-6 inch travel bikes came out, the hardtail crowd cried foul. Now it's an accepted platform. Works for some, not for others.
    Same with 3.7 in fat tires and a host of other changes.
    There is room for design changes in all sizes. One size doesn't "take away" from another.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    I may be being reactionary. I am happy that 650B wheels fit. We have no intentions to support 650B as a standard wheel size going forward as I think it's a distraction, a red herring, a dead end.

    We're delighted with the performance of 29in wheels though, and have had tremendous results with riders of 5'7" and smaller on even 140mm travel bikes.
    Brant - have you had those same riders of 5'7" and smaller try a 650b 140mm travel bike as a comparison to the 29er?

    Just wondering how they might react to that type of comparison.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    Brant - have you had those same riders of 5'7" and smaller try a 650b 140mm travel bike as a comparison to the 29er?

    Just wondering how they might react to that type of comparison.
    They would be hogtied to the terribly poor selection of tyres available and suffer as a result.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    They would be hogtied to the terribly poor selection of tyres available and suffer as a result.
    In due time that will change.

    And in my humble opinion there are some pretty fine 650b tires out there right now.

    BTW - I'm riding a Blue Pig with dual 650b and a Pike up front and it rips!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG View Post
    In due time that will change.

    And in my humble opinion there are some pretty fine 650b tires out there right now.

    BTW - I'm riding a Blue Pig with dual 650b and a Pike up front and it rips!
    I'm sure they said the same about Betamax.

    650B is very poorly supported tyres wise. Far better to get people onto 29ers when they fit, or stick with 26in. Much better parts availability to tune the ride and get performance.

    A Pig with a 650B? BB's going to be a bit up there isn't it?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by brant View Post
    650B is very poorly supported tyres wise. Far better to get people onto 29ers when they fit, or stick with 26in. Much better parts availability to tune the ride and get performance.

    A Pig with a 650B? BB's going to be a bit up there isn't it?

    Feels fine to me, but then again us East Coast folks kinda like higher bottom brackets I guess.



    BTW - that design on the Blue Pig clears a Velocity P35 rim and a Pacenti Neomoto 2.3 with room for mud. Nice work on that design feature.

    My thinking is there is room for all sorts of wheel sizes - 26, 650b, 29er - and even fat tires.

    Now those big behemoth 36er bikes - I'm not sure about those monstrosities.

    Oh and while I've got you online - think there would be clearance for 650b wheels and 42cm tires (Grand Bois Hetres let's say) on your Kaffenback swapout frames?? I'm seriously pondering such a build and even wondering if 650b and a Pacenti Quasi-moto 2.0 might fit.

    Cheers,

    Mark

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jscusmcvet View Post

    I am with Brant on this for sure. I have been riding MTB since 1990. Every evolution of development carries this same feel. Don't buy into the media hype. If you want to be faster, ride better etc.... ride more.

    The evolution follows this cycle... every time...
    1) A few small companies do it and are dismissed by the MTB media and "leaders"
    2) One or two bigger companies catch it, in this case KHS and Jamis.
    3) Somewhere in MTB media land the decision is made to support it and BAM!



    John
    So I take it you are still rocking a fully rigid bike, narrow flat bar, friction shifters with cantis? Doubt it. Chances are you have already bought into all this so called "media hype" over some of the components on your bike. I have been biking since the 80s. I remember when suspension forks came out, people called it "hype". Then full suspension, people said the same thing. 29ers came out, people said the same thing. All those people look pretty foolish now. Those that have ridden a 650b know it is more than hype. It always surprises me that there are people who think that fewer choices is better. Do you ever go to a restaurant and think to yourself it would be better if they only had two things on the menu? Do you go to the car lot and wish they only had two models of car. For an informed consumer more choices is always better. Its the uninformed consumer who gets confused by more choices. I don't care if the bike industry wants to support 10 different wheel sizes. I will pick the one(s) I like, you pick the one(s) you like and we can all be happy.
    2012 On One Whippet 650b
    2012 Santa Cruz TRc 650b
    2014 On One Dirty Disco
    2010 Soma Groove
    1987 Haro RS1

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