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  1. #1
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    Woah there!

    This is the first time I've ever felt the compulsory need to post in Off Camber, simply out of shock.

    So I'm up late, browsing the Ebays for late night deals, who doesn't love that. But then I come across an auction for a "Heavy Duty Downhill Wheelset." Part of the spec is quoted as "Custom 8' Rotors Front and Rear." Noting his/her error in quoting measurements, I realized that I had to see what these rotors looked like, so cue scrolling through the auction pictures! Lo and behold, what do I find . . .

    Woah there!-%24t2ec16vhjhwe9n8iiht3bred1ne8iw%7E%7E60_57.jpg

    Now, maybe, just maybe, this rider follows the teachings of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, or Odinism, and this symbol has spiritual meaning to them. But if that is not the case . . .

    WHAT KIND OF PERSON CUSTOM CUTS ROTORS WITH A SWASTIKA MOTIF AND RIDES WITH A SYMBOL OF HATE AND OPPRESSION FOR ALL TO SEE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    This is simply the worst violation I have ever seen of mountain biking's positive ethos, and therefore I had to share it to help remind myself that what we do is meant to be fun, not meant as a quasi-political statement of hatred.

    //END RANT

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    The swastica has been around a lot longer than Hitler. Aviators used the symbol as luck. Native Americans have been using the swastika for a lot longer than that. It dates back to ancient India and Vinca culture in Europe. I do think all the facts need to be known before we jump to conclusions.

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    Or perhaps they were used in the "E" movie 'Mountain Bike Nazis Must Die'.
    The ridiculousness of cycling clothes increase exponentially in relation to the distance from your bicycle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chef7734 View Post
    The swastica has been around a lot longer than Hitler. Aviators used the symbol as luck. Native Americans have been using the swastika for a lot longer than that. It dates back to ancient India and Vinca culture in Europe. I do think all the facts need to be known before we jump to conclusions.
    Though that's undoubtely right EVERYONE associates the swastika with the Nazi regime so there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to use or display it anywhere at all!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexD. View Post
    Though that's undoubtely right EVERYONE associates the swastika with the Nazi regime so there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to use or display it anywhere at all!
    So you need to tell all the people in India that currently use it as well as some areas in the world that use it on their flag and military vehicles.

    So you are saying this should not be displayed?
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    and this
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    Or this?


    Woah there!-750px-flag_of_kuna_yala.svg.png
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    You are so closed minded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chef7734 View Post
    So you need to tell all the people in India...

    You are so closed minded.
    Each of your references - those are structure-use of this Symbol. No way around that - it is. Some derp on eBay selling what it is there - it places a burden on any potential buyer.
    BlackGriffen1 is just as 'closed minded' as you - he infers the symbol as still carrying the weight of oppression dating to WWII - and you infer your excessively Liberal attitude applies regardless of true intent.
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    I am far from close minded and not a liberal by any means.I was saying give the benefit of the doubt until the whole story is known. I have lived and served all over the world and seen so much discrimination and jumping to conclusions that I feel we need to give the the person the benefit of doubt and if they prove to be wrong then we address that.

    I agree if it was being used as a hatred symbol then he should be approached or has the right to be criticized. But what if he is from India or some other country or culture that uses and has used the symbol for peaceful purposes.

    When we see someone with a cross around thier neck we dont assume they are Romans persecuting people and Christians, we think of them as Christians. The cross was used a whole lot longer as a means of hate and punishment than the swastika.

    I say find out true intent first instead of jumping to conclusion. Then feel free to chastise, condemn, and punish.

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    BTW my issue is not with the OP but the statement of AlexD. The op said there was a chance that that was not the meaning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haint View Post
    Each of your references - those are structure-use of this Symbol. No way around that - it is. Some derp on eBay selling what it is there - it places a burden on any potential buyer.
    BlackGriffen1 is just as 'closed minded' as you - he infers the symbol as still carrying the weight of oppression dating to WWII - and you infer your excessively Liberal attitude applies regardless of true intent.
    Thanks buddy!

    It seems to have gone unnoticed that I made note of the cultural significance of the swastika before inferring what I believe to be the original statement made by this person. In context, absolutely the swastika deserves to be displayed. Anyone who sees worthwhile spiritual significance in the symbol has every inalienable right to display it how they see fit. However, it seems far more likely to me that someone chose to do this as a negative statement, as any halfway mature adult in the United States would hopefully realize that such a statement brings more negative attention because of exactly the connotation that survives from the era of National Socialism.

    I have close friends that actively put faith in the belief systems that value the swastika as a cultural symbol, but I know exactly zero people in this age that would choose to use a bicycle as a rolling billboard for their faith, let alone an ancient symbol.

    "Liberal attitude" comment was unnecessary, there's nothing conservative or liberal about what this topic encompasses. There is tact, and the lack thereof.

    Lastly, thanks for the "close-minded" bit, that made my morning!

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    I have a tattoo on my shoulder with Mjolnir (Thor's hammer) in it. It has been a symbol of heritage, strength, and protection for a long long time. I also keep my hair rather short, if not buzzed.

    Several years after i got the tattoo, the local skin heads started using Mjolnir as one of their symbols. Its rather obscure, so its not like im rocking a swasticka tat.... but EVERY bloody white supremacist that sees it assumes i am one of them.

    My meaning and their meaning are not the same. Different or not, i would not have gotten the tattoo if i had known those meat heads were going to adopt the symbol. Claim you are Buddhist all you want with that wheel set, every one who sees the bike will make other assumptions.

  11. #11
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    Perception.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgriffen_1 View Post
    Thanks buddy!

    It seems to have gone unnoticed that I made note of the cultural significance of the swastika before inferring what I believe to be the original statement made by this person. In context, absolutely the swastika deserves to be displayed. Anyone who sees worthwhile spiritual significance in the symbol has every inalienable right to display it how they see fit. However, it seems far more likely to me that someone chose to do this as a negative statement, as any halfway mature adult in the United States would hopefully realize that such a statement brings more negative attention because of exactly the connotation that survives from the era of National Socialism.

    I have close friends that actively put faith in the belief systems that value the swastika as a cultural symbol, but I know exactly zero people in this age that would choose to use a bicycle as a rolling billboard for their faith, let alone an ancient symbol.

    "Liberal attitude" comment was unnecessary, there's nothing conservative or liberal about what this topic encompasses. There is tact, and the lack thereof.

    Lastly, thanks for the "close-minded" bit, that made my morning!
    Was not calling you close minded and did state you mentioned the other uses first and I agree with you that if the other was the meaning then WTF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chef7734 View Post
    Was not calling you close minded and did state you mentioned the other uses first and I agree with you that if the other was the meaning then WTF.
    Oh Jeez, I missed the post wherein you clarified the philosophical beef because I was typing a counterpoint, that's my bad!

    The original point was to highlight both sides and shine a spotlight on the "WTF" aspect, I think we're there now. What BigRingGrinder noted about his tattoo was essentially what came to mind for me when I saw those rotors.

    Not sure if that wheelset sold or not . . .

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    Does this compare to the swinging mudflap with a shiny image of a naked girl spread eagle hanging from the back of my bike's saddle?

    Or the swinging "ball sack" that is hanging from the bottom bracket of my bike?

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    Snatch them up, start the "Skinheads for cultural sensitivity" cycling team.
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

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    Nothing overtly offensive about the mudflap or ball sack, but I wouldn't consider either to enhance my personal cycling experience; maybe your bike needs something more than mine when it goes out and gets dirty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    Does this compare to the swinging mudflap with a shiny image of a naked girl spread eagle hanging from the back of my bike's saddle?

    Or the swinging "ball sack" that is hanging from the bottom bracket of my bike?

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    Woah there!

    He said he'd include his white hood/robe, torch and lynch'n rope if you used buy it now.

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    People are entitled to display what they like, if somebody decides the world of white supremacy is the path they want to follow they are well within their right to do so, in fact theres no difference between that and many religions in our countries atm, some religions think that anybody that doesnt follow their faith is an infidel and should be put to the sword, yet these religions are allowed to flurish in our societies..
    So whats the difference ?
    Nazi symbols and white supremacy is not for me, but i see no difference to that and many religions, all as bad as each other..
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    Perception.
    Plus the critical thinking skills to make reasonable distinctions.

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    Wait a second ... what is this "positive ethos" we mountain bikers supposedly have? I hope I haven't been violating it all along.

    I didn't sign up to comply with any ethos requirements or anything when I bought a mountain bike ... I'm just here because I want to ride my bike!
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    Hey, OP. Whatever happens to this thread, I think it's a pretty good first OC post. Please start more new threads in the OC if you stumble across something similarly interesting, even if this thread goes train wreck.

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    The rotors are mounted backwards.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chef7734 View Post
    So you need to tell all the people in India that currently use it as well as some areas in the world that use it on their flag and military vehicles.

    So you are saying this should not be displayed?
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    and this
    Name:  RedSwastikaSchool.jpg
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    Or this?


    Click image for larger version. 

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    You are so closed minded.
    Yes you are right that the swastica is used in many cultures but you still can tell the difference by the nazis swastica is turned 45 degrees.
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    Re: Woah there!

    Yes the Nazi swastika was turned 45 degrees but the wheels rotate so no way to tell unless you know the person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deke505 View Post
    Yes you are right that the swastica is used in many cultures but you still can tell the difference by the nazis swastica is turned 45 degrees.
    I was going to make a note about this, but as Chef pointed out, it's definitely impossible to tell. Inference only gets us so far.

  26. #26
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    Well here's a thought, as Dirty $anchez says it's about perception. How about from now on we all make things different. Instead of immediately assuming a swastika means a Hitler / Nazi Germany reference lets all assume it is a reference to one of its many original cultural uses and start to claim back the swastika as a symbol of the literal meaning of it "to be good" or "being with higher self"

    Let the OC be the drops in the ocean that start this tidal wave that will claim back the moral high ground.

    Stand in front of me my people and salute.

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    Oops. wrong sentiment. Stand with me my brothers and sisters as we march for the good of humanity

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    Woah there!

    I asked:


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    You shouldn't poke the Ebay trolls
    The ridiculousness of cycling clothes increase exponentially in relation to the distance from your bicycle.

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    Woah there!

    He seemed to be willing to take a jab in good fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilikemtb999 View Post
    He seemed to be willing to take a jab in good fun.
    Guess we can rule out India as the seller's homeland. Is it safe to jump to conclusions now? Or do we need more benefit of the doubt?

  31. #31
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    Well whatever that symbol means for the eBay seller, he's missing a few bolts for that hub/rotor interface.
    Sometimes, I question the value of my content.

  32. #32
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    you know what? it was PROBABLY a nazi jackass, simply because most youngins associate that with nazis. We cant be positive, but probably.

    That being said, its a cool-ass looking symbol. too bad it's been ruined.
    fap

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    Claim it back Nicole, claim it back

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    keep in mind, if you get that bike, make sure you come to a stop with the rotors turned the right way. if you find they are rotated, just scooch forward a bit, and you're golden! i mean how else can you easily morph from Indian to Nazi in just a short pedal stroke?
    fap

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    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB View Post
    keep in mind, if you get that bike, make sure you come to a stop with the rotors turned the right way. if you find they are rotated, just scooch forward a bit, and you're golden! i mean how else can you easily morph from Indian to Nazi in just a short pedal stroke?
    would that be going to hindu to nazi and back again in 0.5 secs
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by deke505 View Post
    would that be going to hindu to nazi and back again in 0.5 secs
    They both like cremations.

    What, too soon?

  37. #37
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    wayyyy too soon bro



    fap

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    . . . .

    All way too soon, but at least all the swastikas in question are properly done. I'd hate to be the person that did this, stood back, and thought "Yes."

    Woah there!-swastika-millen-d.jpg

    Somebody on page one questioned my "ethos" comment, so to end the digression:

    We mountain bike to have fun (while secretly being masochists), so when I get out on the trails, I ride what I want, clear what jumps I can, and generally don't try to be a douche to people. Yes, there's light-hearted $h!t-talking between my riding buddies and I, but even when we get injured or somebody's bike is breaking down, we're all having a good time. I don't yell obscenities at strangers for riding the trails I build. I complement others' rides when I feel a bit chipper. Generally speaking, I'm a much nicer person than normal when I'm on a bike.
    --> Feel free to weigh in with your opinion, but is this not the ethos that guides mountain biking and continues to sustain our growth and enjoyment in the sport?


  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackgriffen_1 View Post
    ...
    This is simply the worst violation I have ever seen of mountain biking's positive ethos...
    Really?
    the worst??

    As mentioned above, that shape/symbol has other uses/meanings historically

    on a REAL note - I think those discs are compromised in strength with a structure like that
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    Well here's a thought, as Dirty $anchez says it's about perception. How about from now on we all make things different. Instead of immediately assuming a swastika means a Hitler / Nazi Germany reference lets all assume it is a reference to one of its many original cultural uses and start to claim back the swastika as a symbol of the literal meaning of it "to be good" or "being with higher self"

    Let the OC be the drops in the ocean that start this tidal wave that will claim back the moral high ground.

    Stand in front of me my people and salute.

    Name:  hitler-youth2.jpg
Views: 23883
Size:  21.6 KB

    Oops. wrong sentiment. Stand with me my brothers and sisters as we march for the good of humanity

    Name:  spiritual-show.jpg
Views: 617
Size:  141.9 KB
    I'd rep ya if I could
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  41. #41
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    I tried finding a good "Hitler reacts angrily to..." video involving mountain biking; but, alas, they were all immature and childish. Too bad.

  42. #42
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    I say just "Take The Skinheads Bowling Take Them Bowling" Camper Van Beethoven - Take the Skinheads Bowling - YouTube
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I say just "Take The Skinheads Bowling Take Them Bowling" Camper Van Beethoven - Take the Skinheads Bowling - YouTube
    We go to a high desert weekend long concert every Fall that is featured by CVB and Cracker. Both bands are incredible live!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    We go to a high desert weekend long concert every Fall that is featured by CVB and Cracker. Both bands are incredible live!!!!
    Cool! I bet they would be great Live. What high desert event and where.
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  45. #45
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    Sweet, now that this has morphed into a skinhead thread I hope you have all seen Romper Stomper, another one of my favs up there with Southern Comfort and Deliverance. If you haven't seen it then do yourself a favour and go and get a copy from the $2 bin at your local JB HiFi or equivalent.

    Crank up the volume and settle back for some "Oi" tunes. Obviously NSFW

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iFruWxzcYpo?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Cool! I bet they would be great Live. What high desert event and where.
    It's called the Camper/Cracker Campout (West) and it's located in Pioneertown, CA. The place is called Pappy & Harriet's which is an old biker bar. Pioneertown is an old Western movie set that is still used to this day. The bar is a blast to hang out at any day of the year. Excellent food there. The concert does offer camping in the back lot of the property for those who like to do that. We've camped there a few times but our house is less than 15 miles away so if we aren't hammered drunk, we generally drive back to the house after the show. The show is an all day (for 3 days) event with multiple bands playing. There is an indoor stage and an outdoor stage, usually with both playing at the same time. There is a "East" version of it also and I think it's held somewhere in AZ. I think at least some of the guys in Cracker are from the Inland Empire in So cal so the West show is kinda like a coming home party for them. The guys in CVB and Cracker are a lot of fun and are happy to hang out, drink, & B/S with you on their free time. Once after a show ended, a few of the guys did a private acoustic/singing show from their motel room on site for about 10 or 15 of us who were lucky enough to be at the right place at the right time. It was AMAZING!!! Can't wait til the next show this Fall. An up and coming local high desert band called Gram Rabbit is usually invited to perform. They are really good but very off the wall in there type of music which there really isn't a type label for.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    It's called the Camper/Cracker Campout (West) and it's located in Pioneertown, CA. The place is called Pappy & Harriet's which is an old biker bar. Pioneertown is an old Western movie set that is still used to this day. The bar is a blast to hang out at any day of the year. Excellent food there. The concert does offer
    camping in the back lot of the property for those
    who like to do that. We've camped there a few
    times but our house is less than 15 miles away so
    if we aren't hammered drunk, we generally drive
    back to the house after the show. The show is an
    all day (for 3 days) event with multiple bands
    playing. There is an indoor stage and an outdoor
    stage, usually with both playing at the same time.
    There is a "East" version of it also and I think it's
    held somewhere in AZ. I think at least some of the


    guys in Cracker are from the Inland Empire in So
    cal so the West show is kinda like a coming home
    party for them. The guys in CVB and Cracker are a
    lot of fun and are happy to hang out, drink, & B/S
    with you on their free time. Once after a show
    ended, a few of the guys did a private acoustic/
    singing show from their motel room on site for



    about 10 or 15 of us who were lucky enough to be
    at the right place at the right time. It was
    AMAZING!!! Can't wait til the next show this Fall.
    An up and coming local high desert band called
    Gram Rabbit is usually invited to perform. They are
    really good but very off the wall in there type of
    music which there really isn't a type label for.


    Wow sounds like a killer time. Having lived in So Cali all those years I'm surprised I have never heard of it. Sounds like an event only diehard desert rats would know about. My desert rat years stopped in the ninties so I lost touch with the whole lifestyle. If I ever move back I will add it to the bucket list.
    ---------- __o
    --------- _`\<,_
    BRAAP(>)/ (*)
    ************^^^^¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqpcBpSsj1A

  48. #48
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Wow sounds like a killer time. Having lived in So Cali all those years I'm surprised I have never heard of it. Sounds like an event only diehard desert rats would know about. My desert rat years stopped in the ninties so I lost touch with the whole lifestyle. If I ever move back I will add it to the bucket list.
    The first Campout was in 2005 or 2006 so it's kinda new. I've been to all but one show since it's inception. Usually happens in the first half of September.

  49. #49
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    nazi puppy
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    rOCktoberfest 2015 pt I here
    rOCktoberfest 2015 pt II here

  50. #50
    No Stranger to danger....
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    Do you hear the lambs Clarice?
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

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