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Thread: Vaccinations

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    Vaccinations

    I keep seeing articles online about people saying they'll sue other people if their kid (A) gets sick because another kid (B) had parents that chose not to vaccinate them. If A is vaccinated, how does it get whatever B has?

    I have an infant at home and he's been vaccinated, so I don't understand how he can get measles or whatnot if he's been vaccinated against it. I don't buy into the whole autism is caused by vaccines thing as the guy that wrote the first article admitted, and has been sued several times, that he made stuff up or doctored his results.

    Why do people choose not to vaccinate at this point? How does my kid get sick if he has been vaccinated? Do they not work? Are the vaccines not up to date with the disease? Are the vaccines on v1.0 and the disease at v4.2?

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    People say a lot of things, most have little basis in realty.. The jury may be out on the whole Autism/vaccine connection but there are health risks in giving vaccinations.. Personally I don't like having to vaccinate my kids because of an epidemic that is fueled by Iv drug use. (hepatitis b)
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    You just opened up a Can- O -Worms.
    I know. I needed to stir the **** pot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RossJamis View Post
    People say a lot of things, most have little basis in realty.. The jury may be out on the whole Autism/vaccine connection but there are health risks in giving vaccinations.. Personally I don't like having to vaccinate my kids because of an epidemic that is fueled by Iv drug use. (hepatitis b)
    What about measles?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RossJamis View Post
    People say a lot of things, most have little basis in realty.. The jury may be out on the whole Autism/vaccine connection but there are health risks in giving vaccinations.. Personally I don't like having to vaccinate my kids because of an epidemic that is fueled by Iv drug use. (hepatitis b)
    I've worked with a few guys that had Hep B. One got it from a dirty heroin needle, another from a trip to Tijuana, the third, he never could figure it out. If it keeps my kid from getting it, and I've gotten mine, I'm ok with it.

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    Get the feeling most of the real negative press has more to do with the way the the big pharma works... or doesn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nwbikur View Post
    What about measles?

    Or stupidity? There is one that needs to be developed, STAT!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RossJamis View Post
    People say a lot of things, most have little basis in realty.. The jury may be out on the whole Autism/vaccine connection but there are health risks in giving vaccinations.. Personally I don't like having to vaccinate my kids because of an epidemic that is fueled by Iv drug use. (hepatitis b)
    jury is not out on the whole autism linked thing - the studies have been absolutely proven without a doubt to be absolutely fake to the point of complete redaction of studies and punishment for the original author....who has/may face criminal charges for accepting $$ from special interest group to publish false data.

    Concerning the health risks involved - they are so minor compared to what an outbreak has on society as to be laughable....yet there are people who want DEET banned because of potential seizures...which rate is only about one per 100 million users (mosquitoes spread disease rampantly).

    People are dumb....and people who listen to Jenny McCarthy about medical issues are dumber.

    This all coming from a guy whose 2 year old son was exposed to Pertussis in preschool by a parents kid who thought vaccinations were 'dangerous' for their precious ****ing snowflake. I had a then 6 week old daughter at home....who would be a prime candidate for whooping cough as she was not old enough for vaccinations.

    Oh, and the Hep B vaccine - roughly 25% of all cases are of children getting it....it's not just an IV bug - Hep B is insanely infectious and easily spread.


    BUT - I am 100% all for parents to choose....just don't allow non-vaccinated kids in public schools or sports programs....

    Here's a Northern California uber wealthy/educated county who is all ass backward...and I believe has the countries highest outbreak rates for some easily preventable diseases:
    Number of Marin children without vaccinations continues to grow; health officials worried - San Jose Mercury News

    Edit: California recently has had the highest Whooping Cough outbreak since 1947....all because of this dimwit comedienne wanting to blame her kidlets problems on someone else...
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    Oh, and the Hep B vaccine - roughly 25% of all cases are of children getting it....it's not just an IV bug - Hep B is insanely infectious and easily spread.

    Sorry but nooooo Hep B can only be spread through Iv drug use (or other blood to blood transmission), sexual contact or Mother to infant transmission. It is not easily spread whatsoever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossJamis View Post
    Sorry but nooooo Hep B can only be spread through Iv drug, use sexual contact or Mother to infant transmission. It is not easily spread whatsoever.
    wrong - the hepatitis B virus can be spread by infectious blood and body fluids, and not solely through sexual contact or IV drug use (sharing dirty needles).

    How often do you tend to little kids scrapes, dings, cuts?

    Hep B infects 1.25 million people in the U.S...and roughly 25%+ of those are children.

    EIT: just read this from WHO:
    WHO | Hepatitis B

    or go to the CDC, or any other reputable scientific group...not some parenting forums...
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    wrong - the hepatitis B virus can be spread by infectious blood and body fluids, and not solely through sexual contact or IV drug use (sharing dirty needles).

    How often do you tend to little kids scrapes, dings, cuts?

    Hep B infect 1.25 million people...and roughly 25%+ of those are children.

    EIT: just read this from WHO:
    WHO | Hepatitis B

    or go to the CDC, or any other reputable scientific group...not some parenting forums...
    Bodily fluids meaning sexual, it is not contracted through saliva, or mucous or tears. .. Your going way out on a limb.. The kids that are infected are from parents who are infected.. It is not highly contagious.. It is not spread through casual contact period. Attending to cuts and scrapes is no way a risk because how many kids are attending to other kids scrapes? Lets dig a little deeper to try and rationalize the whole highly contagious statement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossJamis View Post
    Bodily fluids meaning sexual, it is not contracted through saliva, or mucous or tears. .. Your going way out on a limb.. The kids that are infected are from parents who are infected.. It is not highly contagious.. It is not spread through casual contact period. Attending to cuts and scrapes is no way a risk because how many kids are attending to other kids scrapes? Lets did a little deeper to try and rationalize the whole highly contagious statement.



    Wrong. Not just wrong but foolishly wrong. Denial is not a river in Egypt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RossJamis View Post
    Bodily fluids meaning sexual, it is not contracted through saliva, or mucous or tears. .. Your going way out on a limb.. The kids that are infected are from parents who are infected.. It is not highly contagious.. It is not spread through casual contact period. Attending to cuts and scrapes is no way a risk because how many kids are attending to other kids scrapes? Lets did a little deeper to try and rationalize the whole highly contagious statement.
    clearly you don't have kids....or they live in bubblewrap.

    But hey, you don't want to vaccinate your future precious snowflake from an easily preventable chronic condition - your call.

    what's that saying?? you can't fix [??]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    Wrong. Not just wrong but foolishly wrong. Denial is not a river in Egypt.
    Yep of course.. Heres a clip from the CDC How is Hepatitis B spread?
    Hepatitis B is usually spread when blood, semen,
    or other body fluids from a person infected with the
    Hepatitis B virus enter the body of someone who
    is not infected. This can happen through sexual
    contact with an infected person or sharing needles,
    syringes, or other injection drug equipment.
    Hepatitis B can also be passed from an infected
    mother to her baby at birth.
    Hepatitis B is
    not
    spread through breastfeeding,
    sharing eating utensils, hugging, kissing, holding
    hands, coughing, or sneezing. Unlike some forms of hepatitis,
    Hepatitis B is also not spread by contaminated food or wate
    r.

    http://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/HBV/PDF...lFactSheet.pdf
    I'm sorry believe what you want.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossJamis View Post
    Yep of course.. Heres a clip from the CDC How is Hepatitis B spread?
    Hepatitis B is usually spread when blood, semen,
    or other body fluids from a person infected with the
    Hepatitis B virus enter the body of someone who
    is not infected. This can happen through sexual
    contact with an infected person or sharing needles,
    syringes, or other injection drug equipment.
    Hepatitis B can also be passed from an infected
    mother to her baby at birth.
    Hepatitis B is
    not
    spread through breastfeeding,
    sharing eating utensils, hugging, kissing, holding
    hands, coughing, or sneezing. Unlike some forms of hepatitis,
    Hepatitis B is also not spread by contaminated food or wate
    r.

    http://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/HBV/PDF...lFactSheet.pdf

    I'm sorry believe what you want.
    And also from the CDC:
    CDC - Hepatitis B Fact Sheet for Parents - Vaccines
    Hepatitis B spreads through blood or other body fluids that contain small amounts of blood of an infected person. People can spread the virus even when they have no symptoms.

    Babies and children can get hepatitis B in the following ways:

    At birth from their infected mother.
    From bites from an infected person.
    By touching open cuts or sores of an infected person.
    Through sharing toothbrushes or other personal items used by an infected person.
    From food that was chewed (for a baby) by an infected person.
    From ear piercing needles that were not cleaned well.
    The virus can live on objects for 7 days or more. Even if you don’t see any blood, there could be virus on an object.
    why do you think people are so damn wary of finding a discarded needle in public? The **** lives on stuff for a long freaking time...and it only takes 1..tiny...poke.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    clearly you don't have kids....or they live in bubblewrap.

    But hey, you don't want to vaccinate your future precious snowflake from an easily preventable chronic condition - your call.

    what's that saying?? you can't fix [??]
    Yea and arrogance and ignorance are poor bedfellows.. You cant back up your claim that it is highly contagious so you drag out ridiculous examples of treating some child's boo boos.. I do have children and I also have worked with Iv drug users for decades many whom were infected with Hep B or Hiv Even if I have Hiv and I spread it to my child while treating said boo boo that in no way puts other children at risk following the illogic of your ridiculous scenario. Just to be clear I have worked with drug addicts since 1984 and somehow I have managed to never contract this highly contagious illness. Nor have I felt the need to get vaccinated. But somehow my kids are so likely to contract it while they are at school that we have to be forced to immunize against it. Believe what you want, if it makes you more comfortable then do it.
    When you've seen someone rupture their scrotum on a bike you won't take the standards for top tube clearance lightly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shytie View Post
    I keep seeing articles online about people saying they'll sue other people if their kid (A) gets sick because another kid (B) had parents that chose not to vaccinate them. If A is vaccinated, how does it get whatever B has?

    I have an infant at home and he's been vaccinated, so I don't understand how he can get measles or whatnot if he's been vaccinated against it. I don't buy into the whole autism is caused by vaccines thing as the guy that wrote the first article admitted, and has been sued several times, that he made stuff up or doctored his results.

    Why do people choose not to vaccinate at this point? How does my kid get sick if he has been vaccinated? Do they not work? Are the vaccines not up to date with the disease? Are the vaccines on v1.0 and the disease at v4.2?
    Ridiculous! Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I am pro-vaccination, myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RossJamis View Post
    Yea and arrogance and ignorance are poor bedfellows.. You cant back up your claim that it is highly contagious so you drag out ridiculous examples of treating some child's boo boos.. I do have children and I also have worked with Iv drug users for decades many whom were infected with Hep B or Hiv Even if I have Hiv and I spread it to my child while treating said boo boo that in no way puts other children at risk following the illogic of your ridiculous scenario. Just to be clear I have worked with drug addicts since 1984 and somehow I have managed to never contract this highly contagious illness. Nor have I felt the need to get vaccinated. But somehow my kids are so likely to contract it while they are at school that we have to be forced to immunize against it. Believe what you want, if it makes you more comfortable then do it.
    It all adds up to this. Would you eat off the same utensils, drink off the same glass, bite off the same sandwich as someone who was positively diagnosed with Hep B who clearly had open soars on their lips if they offered their food or drink to you?

    Yes or no, please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    It all adds up to this. Would you eat off the same utensils, drink off the same glass, bite off the same sandwich as someone who was positively diagnosed with Hep B who clearly had open soars on their lips if they offered their food or drink to you?

    Yes or no, please.
    Actually what it adds up to is trying to move away from the hypothetical scenarios and stick to the facts.. Which are that the disease is not highly contagious and your child is not at a high risk of contracting Hep B while at school.
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    Whoa... real serious in here.. I have refused any sort of shot/preventitive treatment for about 20 years (outside of tetanus). I have no real reason outside of the fact that the shots usually hurt and make me sick afterwards. So, if I am going to get sick with the flu,from the flu shot, I may as well forgo the punishment of getting sick. However, I have not gotten the flu nor a bad cold since I stopped getting the shots. I even took disciplinary paperwork while in the military for refusing the shots. But, I have no children and I can see the concern for illness as a parent. So basicially disregard everything I said.
    "We can always find excuses if we want to find them, but if we really want to do something, we have to just go."

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    Vaccinations

    Quote Originally Posted by RossJamis View Post
    Yea and arrogance and ignorance are poor bedfellows.. You cant back up your claim that it is highly contagious so you drag out ridiculous examples of treating some child's boo boos.. I do have children and I also have worked with Iv drug users for decades many whom were infected with Hep B or Hiv Even if I have Hiv and I spread it to my child while treating said boo boo that in no way puts other children at risk following the illogic of your ridiculous scenario. Just to be clear I have worked with drug addicts since 1984 and somehow I have managed to never contract this highly contagious illness. Nor have I felt the need to get vaccinated. But somehow my kids are so likely to contract it while they are at school that we have to be forced to immunize against it. Believe what you want, if it makes you more comfortable then do it.
    Oh...so you are not vaccinated for hep b and you have never been tested right???

    I mean, since hep b is SO hard to get right? And since you have decades of direct contact right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RossJamis View Post
    Actually what it adds up to is trying to move away from the hypothetical scenarios and stick to the facts.. Which are that the disease is not highly contagious and your child is not at a high risk of contracting Hep B while at school.
    Understood, but I asked you a simple question. Please answer it with a simple reply of yes or no.

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    Hawg if there was no such disease as Hepatitis A,B or C I would not take a drink from anyone with open sores on their mouth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossJamis View Post
    Hawg if there was no such disease as Hepatitis A,B or C I would not take a drink from anyone with open sores on their mouth.
    I already knew that would be your answer before you ever said. Self preservation tops everything else.

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    I work in healthcare so it was highly recommended to get vaccinated for HepB because I used to administer a lot of injections, started IVs and take blood. I didn't have any adverse effects from the vaccine

    I didn't get chicken pox as a kid, I got it as an adult. It was horrible. I think a vaccine was introduced around the time I got infected in 1998.... too late for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sodak View Post
    Whoa... real serious in here.. I have refused any sort of shot/preventitive treatment for about 20 years (outside of tetanus). I have no real reason outside of the fact that the shots usually hurt and make me sick afterwards. So, if I am going to get sick with the flu,from the flu shot, I may as well forgo the punishment of getting sick.
    I used to follow that same practice until one year I got the honest-to-god flu not a bad cold and it about killed me Definitely worse than any reaction you're going to get from the shot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shytie View Post
    I keep seeing articles online about people saying they'll sue other people if their kid (A) gets sick because another kid (B) had parents that chose not to vaccinate them. If A is vaccinated, how does it get whatever B has?

    I have an infant at home and he's been vaccinated, so I don't understand how he can get measles or whatnot if he's been vaccinated against it. I don't buy into the whole autism is caused by vaccines thing as the guy that wrote the first article admitted, and has been sued several times, that he made stuff up or doctored his results.

    Why do people choose not to vaccinate at this point? How does my kid get sick if he has been vaccinated? Do they not work? Are the vaccines not up to date with the disease? Are the vaccines on v1.0 and the disease at v4.2?


    Vaccines are not 100% effective.

    So here's a hypothetical: Say a vaccine is 99% effective and 100 people who have received it are in a room together. It's possible one of them can still get the illness. Now let's have someone with the illness and also contagious enter the room, walk around a bit talking to people and then leave. They may come into contact with 50 of the people in the room and if those 50 are protected, no one will get sick, including the one person was vaccinated but not protected. But if one of those 50 is the one who wasn't protected, he/she is going to get sick. Now, at this point the odds are pretty good that the one person who's not protected won't be exposed at all because so many other people are protected. But if multiple people that have not had the vaccine are in that room instead, and they all get sick, the odds of being exposed jump up pretty quickly. And you never know whether you're one of the one's that's fully protected or not until you end up sick. Of course usually you'll still get partial immunity and won't get as sick as you otherwise would have, but not always; and of course the goal is to not get sick at all.

    So that's why some people are concerned that their vaccinated kid could get sick because of someone else's unvaccinated kid.

    That's also why I get my flu shot every year and then vigorously encourage all of my family and coworkers to get theirs as well. Even in a good year flu shots are only about 80% effective and I like to manipulate those odds in my favor. I didn't used to get the vaccine and I've had full-on flu, it sucks. I'm not particularly interested in doing that again if I can help it.
    I'm enjoying my childhood way too much to ever give it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    I already knew that would be your answer before you ever said. Self preservation tops everything else.
    Hawg there is self preservation and then there is stupidity. Any person who would expose themselves to a person with open sores on their mouth is idiotic.. Your scenario proved nothing because I would not share a drink or eating utensil with anybody not in my immediate family, period. I have on the other hand eaten meals prepared by someone who was Hep B positive and I never gave it a 2nd thought.
    Last edited by RossJamis; 09-17-2013 at 10:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossJamis View Post
    Any person who would expose themselves to a person with open sores on there mouth is idiotic.. Your scenario proved nothing because I would not share a drink or eating utensil with anybody not in my immediate family, period.
    I didnt even start the logic trap and i can see you fell into it. Guess what, children do not have that filter yet. They share sandwiches, wipe snot on hands before high fives, spit on baseballs, scratch itchy scabs and then borrow pencils, etc. If you want to make an "informed decision" to forgo a vaccination for your self thats one thing, to pass on having your child vaccinated is a health risk for not just your family but the families of all your child is exposed to.

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    I would refrain from calling the CDC a "reputable scientific group." They are the ones selling them, so of course we "need" them.

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    The CDC sells stuff? That's news to me. I though Pfizer and their like were the ones selling stuff.

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    Here's a better question....if the Hep B vaccine is safe (and it has proven to be) why on earth would someone not opt for it?

    And a much better question...if all time tested vaccines are proven safe why on earth would someone opt out of it?

    I can pretty guarantee that every parent who opted out giving a vaccine to their child, only to have their kidlet come down with whooping cough (or measles), feels complete and utter gut wrenching regret for being a total self absorbed moron.

    CDC reports on U.S. vaccination rates, recent measles outbreaks
    "The increase in measles cases in the United States in 2013 serves as a reminder that imported measles can result in larger outbreaks, particularly if introduced into areas with pockets of unvaccinated persons," they wrote, making mention of the ongoing outbreak in Texas
    article is 4 days old

    Measles has been eliminated in the US...but of course people stop vaccinating (because they forget how terrible this **** is) and then it's brought in from another country...
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    A close friend of mine has HIV. He's had it for years and doesn't tell anyone about it really. He got it in college, not from having too much fun, but at a swim meet. He walked into a locker room to drop a load and stepped on a broken tile. It cut his foot, and apparently someone had cut themselves while shaving in there, leading to him getting it in an open wound. If you go to any meet in the country now, they will DQ you from the event if they catch you shaving while there. His whole life was turned upside down by something out of his control.

    I'll take a vaccine if it means I don't have to deal with what he does. The last swim meet I attended, they actually had someone posted in there just to watch to make sure no one was trimming up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    but of course people stop vaccinating (because they forget how terrible this **** is) and then it's brought in from another country...
    Maybe we need a new plague...a zombie apocalypse perhaps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaXCarp View Post
    I would refrain from calling the CDC a "reputable scientific group." They are the ones selling them, so of course we "need" them.
    Pharma company's make around a total of 1.5% of their profits from vaccines...that's why many simply don't produce them anymore - no $$ in it.

    I think it's like 5 companies that make 80+% of the worlds vaccines.
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    I'm glad I was able to provide you with some news. They issue "contracts" on their latest formulas and lease them to companies.The private sector pricing includes a tax per dose administration ranging from $0.75 to $3.75

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaXCarp View Post
    I'm glad I was able to provide you with some news. They issue "contracts" on their latest formulas and lease them to companies.The private sector pricing includes a tax per dose administration ranging from $0.75 to $3.75
    I was unaware that the CDC developed vaccines...then rented the research to private companies for profit.

    Where on earth did you get that info from?
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  40. #40
    AZ
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    They don't. The C.D.C. awards grants for research and for the development of vaccines much like other government involvement in developing tech.

  41. #41
    see me rollin, they hatin
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    i dont get vaccines because i'm lazy and dont like needles.


    i also do what i can to stretch my dog's vaccines because pets are severely overvaccinated.
    fap

  42. #42
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    I'm not sure if your computer has a search engine or not...They identify a disease and then develop a specific anti body for that disease. Is this actually news to people?!

    Here is a summarization of vaccine programs from the CDC website where it clearly identifies how much they charge to issue a does. Tax information is on the bottom.

    CDC - VFC Current Vaccine Price List - Vaccines for Children Program

  43. #43
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shytie View Post
    Maybe we need a new plague...a zombie apocalypse perhaps.
    meh...no need for zombies - just a big ol' nasty flu outbreak.

    Spanish Flu less than 100 years ago killed roughly 4% of the worlds population....whoa.

    that would be a mess...could you imagine 280,000,000+ million dead within a year? (using today's population numbers)
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaXCarp View Post
    I'm not sure if your computer has a search engine or not...They identify a disease and then develop a specific anti body for that disease. Is this actually news to people?!

    Here is a summarization of vaccine programs from the CDC website where it clearly identifies how much they charge to issue a does. Tax information is on the bottom.

    CDC - VFC Current Vaccine Price List - Vaccines for Children Program



    How does that demonstrate that the CDC developed anything?

  45. #45
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaXCarp View Post
    I'm not sure if your computer has a search engine or not...They identify a disease and then develop a specific anti body for that disease. Is this actually news to people?!

    Here is a summarization of vaccine programs from the CDC website where it clearly identifies how much they charge to issue a does. Tax information is on the bottom.

    CDC - VFC Current Vaccine Price List - Vaccines for Children Program
    that link just shows prices (not much $$ either).

    where does it say that the CDC develops the antibodies for vaccines and sells them to private companies?
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  46. #46
    I'm just messing with you
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    I never cease to be amazed at people who will single out a part of the government that actually does some good as if there is always some underlying evil intent.

    To which I'll add
    "Fear that makes us run from a mad dog is useful and necessary, whereas fear rooted in mistrust is unhelpful and needs to be overcome." - HHDL
    Chasing bears through the woods drunk with a dull hatchet is strongly not advised

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    Have no children, get vaccinated for travel, yet forego regular flu shots.
    Found the link interesting that while the CDC (gov't) keystones (100%) bulk rates before distribution.

    They appear to both provide a necessary service, and deny drug companies their huge profits. Win / Win.

  48. #48
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    Vaccines are not antibodies. Vaccines trigger your body to produce antibodies. There's a difference. If you receive antibodies, the immunity that they provide is temporary. Once they're out of your system, the immunity is gone too. A vaccine educates your immune system so that it can produce the antibodies any time it's exposed to that same (whatever that vaccine was for) again, however often it needs to.
    I'm enjoying my childhood way too much to ever give it up.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by skullcap View Post
    Vaccines are not antibodies. Vaccines trigger your body to produce antibodies. There's a difference. If you receive antibodies, the immunity that they provide is temporary. Once they're out of your system, the immunity is gone too. A vaccine educates your immune system so that it can produce the antibodies any time it's exposed to that same (whatever that vaccine was for) again, however often it needs to.
    damn...jump in all smart and ****....

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  50. #50
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    Sorry! (ducking, running) I'll head back to my nerd corner now.
    I'm enjoying my childhood way too much to ever give it up.

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