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  1. #1
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    Tragedy and Mountain Biking.

    Horrible days like this make me especially thankful for the outlet mountain biking provides. I think that if everyone were able to find something to release their negative energy on, so many of these horrible things would not happen. Not trying to debate on any subject. Just saying days like these make me thankful for certain things.

  2. #2
    backwoods and backwards
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    I live in CT,
    My daughter is 5 years old.
    I can't describe how heartbroken we are for the victims and the families.

    My wife and I will shut out all media in our house this weekend because I don't know how I could ever explain to her how someone could hurt kids like this.
    MERCY! MERCY! MERCY!

  3. #3
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    Yeah. Who knows what turns some people to get that disturbed in just 24 yrs. Just picked up my 22 yr old daughter at lax coming home from law school at Yale to hear about this. Just about 50 miles from New Haven! Just gave her a big hug and she gets another when she wakes from her nap after the 15 hr train/plane trip across the country. No need to tell you all to hug your kids too and pray for the ones whose young lives were taken too soon and for the ones who'd give anything to hug them again.

  4. #4
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    absolutely sickening
    '11 Jedi
    '01 Straight8
    '01Rocket88< ran over it.. always do a full walk around!
    '00 Homegrown

  5. #5
    Tactical Nightmare
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    Hug your kids. Love them with all your heart. I think that is the only thing I can do right now, is grab them and hold them as tight as I can.

    My heart goes out to the people directly affected by this in any way, and with no less heart, to you all too. Love, and love greatly.
    - "The true object of all human life is play" - GK Chesterton
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  6. #6
    I didn't do it
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    I'm with you Gnar, I will need a diversion now more than ever. I can't think of a better way to clear my head than getting out on my bike for a few hours on the trail.

  7. #7
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    No words can help or describe today.
    We need more love, more respect and more family.
    May those angels that went today be an example to all, to become better indiviuals to each other and society.
    God bless you all.
    Lynn Woods
    JRA cycles
    YETI cycles.com

  8. #8
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    Just horrible, can't even put it to words. My thoughts and prayers are going out to the families who lost loved ones.

    Whats kind of freaking me out is my wife and I watched Bowling for Columbine with our kids last night. It was odd having to explaining it with a historical perspective.Explained to them that is why they have lock down drills etc now. Then today happens. Just shows you can never be prepared. It still begs the question why do we have so much gun violence in the USA compared to other countries. Also very saddening that little to no progress had been made in the last decade.

    Pissed me off enough to ride about 10 miles with the Husky today.
    Sent via my heady vibes from the heart of Pisgahstan

  9. #9
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    Its absolutely shocking . When i heard i hugged my little ones so tight and shed a tear, i hid it from them as they are so innocent and dont need to know of the badness in the world. Still cant fathom how someone could do this.

  10. #10
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    Wish my trails weren't covered in cold air and snow. Maybe a long hike will have to suffice tomorrow.

  11. #11
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    My wife is a teacher though my kids are not yet in school. I just makes you pause when something so senseless happens. I mean little kids that did nothing wrong yet, they are not even old enough to have done anything.

  12. #12
    No Stranger to danger....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog View Post
    Yeah. Who knows what turns some people to get that disturbed in just 24 yrs. Just picked up my 22 yr old daughter at lax coming home from law school at Yale to hear about this. Just about 50 miles from New Haven! Just gave her a big hug and she gets another when she wakes from her nap after the 15 hr train/plane trip across the country. No need to tell you all to hug your kids too and pray for the ones whose young lives were taken too soon and for the ones who'd give anything to hug them again.
    Its called mental illness in many different shapes and forms, as Dion said in another thread more work needs to be done in this area, brain chemistry is a very delicate thing, some never have to deal with it and others have to try and deal with it every day hopefully with the with the help of society..
    The second issue is gun laws and the availability of semi and automatic weapons and hand guns, but as this debate of gun control is very sensitive for some i'll leave it at that..
    My heart goes out to those effected by this terrible tragedy, so many young innocent lives ended and so many shattered families..
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  13. #13
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    Very disturbing....To leave this world so young leaving grieving parents behind,unimaginable.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Its called mental illness in many different shapes and forms, as Dion said in another thread more work needs to be done in this area, brain chemistry is a very delicate thing, some never have to deal with it and others have to try and deal with it every day hopefully with the with the help of society..
    The second issue is gun laws and the availability of semi and automatic weapons and hand guns, but as this debate of gun control is very sensitive for some i'll leave it at that..
    My heart goes out to those effected by this terrible tragedy, so many young innocent lives ended and so many shattered families..
    So the USA is the only country that has people who are mentally ill? The only country that has folks with a lot of guns? Albeit not as many assault rifles and handguns. I don't know what the answer is but at this point I am all for stronger gun control. For what it is worth I own an assault rifle, pistol, and a shotgun. I haven't fire any of them in years. I just don't see the need for average citizens to have access to semi automatic rifles and pistols. Guns for hunting ok, no argument there. Guns for protection? Remind me again who these guns are protecting?

    Like I said I don't know the answer but I think it is time the USA have a serious dialouge about a solution. One that doesn't turn into a political talking point, but I am sure that is where it will end up. Its just sad and frustrating things haven't really changed in the past decade.
    Sent via my heady vibes from the heart of Pisgahstan

  15. #15
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    I am a kindergarten teacher with 22 five year olds in my class. I used to live in CT, not too far from there. I still live within 45 minutes of Newtown. My own three kids are all in HS now. It is hard to believe how or why something like this could happen, or, realistically, how it could have been prevented. And as is so often the case, the only one with the answers is dead as well. I will say that Mental Illness is vast and prevalent, and it is an area where many people need more and better and "covered by insurance" care.

    SPP
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  16. #16
    No Stranger to danger....
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattnmtns View Post
    So the USA is the only country that has people who are mentally ill? The only country that has folks with a lot of guns? Albeit not as many assault rifles and handguns. I don't know what the answer is but at this point I am all for stronger gun control. For what it is worth I own an assault rifle, pistol, and a shotgun. I haven't fire any of them in years. I just don't see the need for average citizens to have access to semi automatic rifles and pistols. Guns for hunting ok, no argument there. Guns for protection? Remind me again who these guns are protecting?

    Like I said I don't know the answer but I think it is time the USA have a serious dialouge about a solution. One that doesn't turn into a political talking point, but I am sure that is where it will end up. Its just sad and frustrating things haven't really changed in the past decade.
    Matt, you must be takin the piss mate, where did i say or imply that the USA is the only country that has mentally ill people and the only country that has a lot of guns??
    Just ridiculous stuff Matt.....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    Wish my trails weren't covered in cold air and snow. Maybe a long hike will have to suffice tomorrow.
    Come down to Ft. Collins. No snow here.
    I was fortunate enough to spend some time in an elementary school yesterday. Being surrounded by beautiful children was a true gift.
    Words fail me. I will just continue to pray for all of those effected by this tragedy.

  18. #18
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    What happened in CT was absolutely horrible and so unfathomable that someone would be so evil as to do such a deed. The situation is sad and I pray for all the family and friends affected by this.

    Situations like these are very easy for folks to get too emotional and think from emotion instead of reason. I know an earlier poster didn't want to discuss gun control in the same statement he made a statement about it - if you didn't want the conversation, don't bring it up and then bow out saying you weren't trying to bring it up - be honest - yes you were.

    The shooter had a .223 bushmaster and two handguns - 3 in all with some reports he had more in the car. It is easily stated he was heavily armed. How many guns did the principal and her staff have? Zero. Because schools are gun-free zones, you have in effect a total gun ban and no second amendment on those properties so that should pretty much tell you all you need to know about gun control - the simple fact is that it doesn't work but rather has the opposite effect - it attracts those bent on massacring innocent people to those places.

    The shooter didn't go to city hall, the capitol building, a police station and attempt to shoot as many folks did he? Do you wonder why? It's pretty explanatory that he couldn't get the numbers because he would have been taken down by those in those facilities who are armed.

    The President named a few mass shootings that have happened in the past several years - do you want to know the common denominator? They all happened where no one is armed and all in gun free zones. These shooters are cowards so they go where they know they can rack up massive casualties without anyone being able to fight back.

    There are over 2000 gun control laws all around this nation - yet did it stop this massacre last Friday? No. Will banning guns regardless of how "bogeyman" they look be effective at preventing these types of tragedies? No. On the same day this tragedy occurred, a guy in China went and killed 8 kids with a knife and in China there is no gun rights at all.

    The media and our politicians would have us believe that it is our access to firearms that create these tragedies but then look at that logic - 1 in 3 Americans own firearms which is about 100 million gun owners...Americans should be extinct with all the firearms in this nation if that logic was correct. Most Americans who own guns don't go around shooting other folks and are just as trustworthy as the policeman who patrols your neighborhood who also has a gun.

    I don't think mentally ill folks should have guns nor criminals but the simple fact is they have guns and if someone wants a gun they are going to get one by any means necessary. I know this because I have a cousin in prison for the rest of his life because he shot a guy several years ago - he was a felon who by law is forbidden to possess guns but stole them and went to do his deed.

    So it wasn't the accessibility of guns that caused this massacre but rather the inaccessibilty of guns to those who were at the school (principal and staff) who could have if there were firearms available have defended themselves from this monster who went there because he knew there was no ability for the intended target to fight back.

    In our society, we are told to call the police for our security and forget the 2nd amendment to our Bill of Rights of our Constitution is there not just so we can go deer hunting and pop cans off of fenceposts - it is there to protect Americans rights to defend themselves from those that intend to do us harm whether it be a criminal gunman or our government if they decide to harm us physically.

    We the people have lost the responsibility that our security is mainly our responsibilty - the Supreme Court has ruled that the police do not have a legal obligation to your personal well-being (they do this but you cannot sue them if as a result of a crime you suffer loss).

    We allow our politicians to tell us we need tighter gun control - yet these same politicians are surrounded by firearms (secret service, bodyguards, etc) and will you see them tell them to disarm themselves? No. Some of our loudest gun control hounds are armed themselves and/or constantly surrounded by armed individuals charged with their personal security. Why are we regular joe Americans not as important to be able to provide for our own security? Is not my family important enough to protect from some criminal who wants to do me and them harm? Is my life not as important as Barbara Boxer's?

    In summary, I think we should do away with gun free zones altogether and either let teachers and staff have firearms (they would have to have the same background checks as a normal person would have to have) or a designated staff member who is trained have firearms and the individual who is holding that role is not advertised as having that role. Someone should be in the position to be able to defend the students and staff from these monsters who wish to prey on them.
    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    What happened in CT was absolutely horrible and so unfathomable that someone would be so evil as to do such a deed. The situation is sad and I pray for all the family and friends affected by this.

    Situations like these are very easy for folks to get too emotional and think from emotion instead of reason. I know an earlier poster didn't want to discuss gun control in the same statement he made a statement about it - if you didn't want the conversation, don't bring it up and then bow out saying you weren't trying to bring it up - be honest - yes you were.

    The shooter had a .223 bushmaster and two handguns - 3 in all with some reports he had more in the car. It is easily stated he was heavily armed. How many guns did the principal and her staff have? Zero. Because schools are gun-free zones, you have in effect a total gun ban and no second amendment on those properties so that should pretty much tell you all you need to know about gun control - the simple fact is that it doesn't work but rather has the opposite effect - it attracts those bent on massacring innocent people to those places.

    The shooter didn't go to city hall, the capitol building, a police station and attempt to shoot as many folks did he? Do you wonder why? It's pretty explanatory that he couldn't get the numbers because he would have been taken down by those in those facilities who are armed.

    The President named a few mass shootings that have happened in the past several years - do you want to know the common denominator? They all happened where no one is armed and all in gun free zones. These shooters are cowards so they go where they know they can rack up massive casualties without anyone being able to fight back.

    There are over 2000 gun control laws all around this nation - yet did it stop this massacre last Friday? No. Will banning guns regardless of how "bogeyman" they look be effective at preventing these types of tragedies? No. On the same day this tragedy occurred, a guy in China went and killed 8 kids with a knife and in China there is no gun rights at all.

    The media and our politicians would have us believe that it is our access to firearms that create these tragedies but then look at that logic - 1 in 3 Americans own firearms which is about 100 million gun owners...Americans should be extinct with all the firearms in this nation if that logic was correct. Most Americans who own guns don't go around shooting other folks and are just as trustworthy as the policeman who patrols your neighborhood who also has a gun.

    I don't think mentally ill folks should have guns nor criminals but the simple fact is they have guns and if someone wants a gun they are going to get one by any means necessary. I know this because I have a cousin in prison for the rest of his life because he shot a guy several years ago - he was a felon who by law is forbidden to possess guns but stole them and went to do his deed.

    So it wasn't the accessibility of guns that caused this massacre but rather the inaccessibilty of guns to those who were at the school (principal and staff) who could have if there were firearms available have defended themselves from this monster who went there because he knew there was no ability for the intended target to fight back.

    In our society, we are told to call the police for our security and forget the 2nd amendment to our Bill of Rights of our Constitution is there not just so we can go deer hunting and pop cans off of fenceposts - it is there to protect Americans rights to defend themselves from those that intend to do us harm whether it be a criminal gunman or our government if they decide to harm us physically.

    We the people have lost the responsibility that our security is mainly our responsibilty - the Supreme Court has ruled that the police do not have a legal obligation to your personal well-being (they do this but you cannot sue them if as a result of a crime you suffer loss).

    We allow our politicians to tell us we need tighter gun control - yet these same politicians are surrounded by firearms (secret service, bodyguards, etc) and will you see them tell them to disarm themselves? No. Some of our loudest gun control hounds are armed themselves and/or constantly surrounded by armed individuals charged with their personal security. Why are we regular joe Americans not as important to be able to provide for our own security? Is not my family important enough to protect from some criminal who wants to do me and them harm? Is my life not as important as Barbara Boxer's?

    In summary, I think we should do away with gun free zones altogether and either let teachers and staff have firearms (they would have to have the same background checks as a normal person would have to have) or a designated staff member who is trained have firearms and the individual who is holding that role is not advertised as having that role. Someone should be in the position to be able to defend the students and staff from these monsters who wish to prey on them.
    this is one of the most retarded pro gun posts i've ever read. yeah, let's all arm ourselves 24/7. great idea.

  20. #20
    jalepenio jimenez
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    good perspective on gun ownership

    came across this comment on a website I visit and thought it relayed a good message...

    I have been a gun owner for more than 30 years...
    byOldJackPine

    I hunt. Much of the meat that my family eats during the year comes from local wild game and I derive great satisfaction from the experience of hunting and the ability to feed my family locally sourced, organic, environmentally friendly game that I procure, butcher, and prepare myself. In addition, my son and I enjoy shooting clay pigeons at our local shooting range. My friends and co-workers are mostly hunters as well and in my community, wild game is little more remarkable than food from the grocery or the local farmer's market. I have had extensive formal training in gun safety and rifle marksmanship. My guns are locked in a safe when not in use. I should be the archetype of an NRA supporter. But...

    I am a dad. I am the husband of an elementary school teacher who works too hard and commits too fully to her students (it's a trait that good teachers share). And I am saddened to my core by the shootings in Connecticut. I cannot even imagine the pain that those poor families are feeling and I will pray for peace for them tonight.

    I have never joined the NRA. I have been invited many times but I was initially turned off by their absolutist position on gun regulation and I was later repelled by their politics and by the way that they try to conflate the good that is accomplished for conservation by hunting with their interpretation of the 2nd amendment. I hope today is the beginning of the end for their influence in our country.

    So yes...lets have the national conversation about a more rational gun policy. This country won't ban the private ownership of guns and I don't think it would be wise even if we did. Similarly, it may be impossible to prevent a disturbed individual from procuring a gun if they are sufficiently motivated, but for the sake of these victims there have to be ways to make tragedies like the one in Connecticut today less likely. Lets talk about making tactical weapons and high capacity magazines illegal for private ownership. Lets talk about raising the regulatory oversight on those who may purchase and own small weapons like handguns that can easily be concealed. Lets talk about proficiency requirements and regulations on the storage and registration of private firearms. There are European countries with much stricter gun laws that also maintain rich hunting traditions. Lets raise the penalties for crimes committed while using a gun and lets enforce the gun laws on the books. I'm sure there are better ideas out there and I don't claim to be a 2nd amendment scholar but surely we can do better. Lets get serious.

    I have never felt that my sporting arms were threatened by those who were calling for tighter regulations on gun sales and ownership - particularly when directed at cheap handguns and guns whose value as sporting arms was marginal or specious. The fear of a slippery slope leading from common sense gun regulation to the loss of hunting firearms is a fear that the NRA uses to sell its political agenda. It is false. A gun is a tool like a hammer but unlike other tools, guns are designed and optimized to deliver projectiles for the purpose of killing efficiently. In the context of hunting, this efficiency is needed to ensure that an animal dies as quickly and humanely as possible. However, this is also the reason why the "guns don't kill people, people do..." line of reasoning rings hollow. One can kill another person with a hammer or with a car but that is not what hammers and cars are designed to do. Guns are a special case and we should start by acknowledging that.

    As I left the house tonight, I kissed my son on the forehead. Its a little unusual for us. He's 13 now and I can still get away with it but it won't be long before I can't. We ate venison from his deer last night. I was sitting next to him a month ago on a bluebird crisp morning in the woods when he shot it and it was a high point for both of us during a time when I have this melancholy feeling that our relationship is changing. I also had the "there but for the grace of God go I..." thought in remembrance of the grieving families in Connecticut tonight. What can one say?

    There is much anger and sadness tonight. Its justified. But don't direct it at gun owners who could be allies in the fight against the NRA Here is a plea from a responsible gun owner (self-described). I want rational gun laws. If it inconveniences me, so be it. There are other responsible gun owners out there. Let's make a down payment on insuring that we prevent the next gun tragedy from happening.

    ORIGINALLY POSTED TO OLDJACKPINE ON FRI DEC 14, 2012
    I dig, chop, strangle, yank, stomp, annihilate, mutilate, eradicate, and FU goatheads

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudflap View Post
    came across this comment on a website I visit and thought it relayed a good message...

    I have been a gun owner for more than 30 years...
    byOldJackPine

    I hunt. Much of the meat that my family eats during the year comes from local wild game and I derive great satisfaction from the experience of hunting and the ability to feed my family locally sourced, organic, environmentally friendly game that I procure, butcher, and prepare myself. In addition, my son and I enjoy shooting clay pigeons at our local shooting range. My friends and co-workers are mostly hunters as well and in my community, wild game is little more remarkable than food from the grocery or the local farmer's market. I have had extensive formal training in gun safety and rifle marksmanship. My guns are locked in a safe when not in use. I should be the archetype of an NRA supporter. But...

    I am a dad. I am the husband of an elementary school teacher who works too hard and commits too fully to her students (it's a trait that good teachers share). And I am saddened to my core by the shootings in Connecticut. I cannot even imagine the pain that those poor families are feeling and I will pray for peace for them tonight.

    I have never joined the NRA. I have been invited many times but I was initially turned off by their absolutist position on gun regulation and I was later repelled by their politics and by the way that they try to conflate the good that is accomplished for conservation by hunting with their interpretation of the 2nd amendment. I hope today is the beginning of the end for their influence in our country.

    So yes...lets have the national conversation about a more rational gun policy. This country won't ban the private ownership of guns and I don't think it would be wise even if we did. Similarly, it may be impossible to prevent a disturbed individual from procuring a gun if they are sufficiently motivated, but for the sake of these victims there have to be ways to make tragedies like the one in Connecticut today less likely. Lets talk about making tactical weapons and high capacity magazines illegal for private ownership. Lets talk about raising the regulatory oversight on those who may purchase and own small weapons like handguns that can easily be concealed. Lets talk about proficiency requirements and regulations on the storage and registration of private firearms. There are European countries with much stricter gun laws that also maintain rich hunting traditions. Lets raise the penalties for crimes committed while using a gun and lets enforce the gun laws on the books. I'm sure there are better ideas out there and I don't claim to be a 2nd amendment scholar but surely we can do better. Lets get serious.

    I have never felt that my sporting arms were threatened by those who were calling for tighter regulations on gun sales and ownership - particularly when directed at cheap handguns and guns whose value as sporting arms was marginal or specious. The fear of a slippery slope leading from common sense gun regulation to the loss of hunting firearms is a fear that the NRA uses to sell its political agenda. It is false. A gun is a tool like a hammer but unlike other tools, guns are designed and optimized to deliver projectiles for the purpose of killing efficiently. In the context of hunting, this efficiency is needed to ensure that an animal dies as quickly and humanely as possible. However, this is also the reason why the "guns don't kill people, people do..." line of reasoning rings hollow. One can kill another person with a hammer or with a car but that is not what hammers and cars are designed to do. Guns are a special case and we should start by acknowledging that.

    As I left the house tonight, I kissed my son on the forehead. Its a little unusual for us. He's 13 now and I can still get away with it but it won't be long before I can't. We ate venison from his deer last night. I was sitting next to him a month ago on a bluebird crisp morning in the woods when he shot it and it was a high point for both of us during a time when I have this melancholy feeling that our relationship is changing. I also had the "there but for the grace of God go I..." thought in remembrance of the grieving families in Connecticut tonight. What can one say?

    There is much anger and sadness tonight. Its justified. But don't direct it at gun owners who could be allies in the fight against the NRA Here is a plea from a responsible gun owner (self-described). I want rational gun laws. If it inconveniences me, so be it. There are other responsible gun owners out there. Let's make a down payment on insuring that we prevent the next gun tragedy from happening.

    ORIGINALLY POSTED TO OLDJACKPINE ON FRI DEC 14, 2012
    that was well said by the op

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    this is one of the most retarded pro gun posts i've ever read. yeah, let's all arm ourselves 24/7. great idea.
    What is your suggestion? Instead of bashing like the hordes of others have done on both sides of the issue, why not offer a solution. I have stated my opinion without name calling those who do not agree with me. I stated my opinion respecting everyone on here.

    I have no problem with those whose opinion differs...gun ownership is a personal decision and if you don't believe you should own them, then it is your right to not own them.
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  23. #23
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    The Sandy Hook tragedy has occupied my mind, quite intensly, since it happened. I have been trying to make sense of what happened. I am going for a bike ride to clear my mind, and to think about the victims and survivors of this horrible event. I do my best thinking, reflecting and healing when I am on my bike.

  24. #24
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    The gun debate will still be here when all of us are dead. My intention here was just express how grateful I am that I have an outlet that let's me release my negative energy. It's just a shame not everyone call channel away their negative energy in ways not harmful to others. All I can say is apart from keep biking, pay attention to those around you. After losing two people close to me to suicide in the last 3 years, I realize lot's of people are in dire need of help, even though they may not seem like it.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    The gun debate will still be here when all of us are dead. My intention here was just express how grateful I am that I have an outlet that let's me release my negative energy. It's just a shame not everyone call channel away their negative energy in ways not harmful to others. All I can say is apart from keep biking, pay attention to those around you. After losing two people close to me to suicide in the last 3 years, I realize lot's of people are in dire need of help, even though they may not seem like it.
    Sorry to hear about the suicides of your close acquaintences. Biking is a huge stress relief for me as well...I wish I could get more riding in.
    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

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