Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 417
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,670

    Tragedy and Mountain Biking.

    Horrible days like this make me especially thankful for the outlet mountain biking provides. I think that if everyone were able to find something to release their negative energy on, so many of these horrible things would not happen. Not trying to debate on any subject. Just saying days like these make me thankful for certain things.

  2. #2
    backwoods and backwards
    Reputation: MOJO K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,573
    I live in CT,
    My daughter is 5 years old.
    I can't describe how heartbroken we are for the victims and the families.

    My wife and I will shut out all media in our house this weekend because I don't know how I could ever explain to her how someone could hurt kids like this.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    497
    Yeah. Who knows what turns some people to get that disturbed in just 24 yrs. Just picked up my 22 yr old daughter at lax coming home from law school at Yale to hear about this. Just about 50 miles from New Haven! Just gave her a big hug and she gets another when she wakes from her nap after the 15 hr train/plane trip across the country. No need to tell you all to hug your kids too and pray for the ones whose young lives were taken too soon and for the ones who'd give anything to hug them again.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: shwinn8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,167
    absolutely sickening
    '11 Jedi
    '01 Rocket 88 Stage3
    '00 Homegrown

  5. #5
    Good, green, Oregon.
    Reputation: Giant Chachi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    789
    Hug your kids. Love them with all your heart. I think that is the only thing I can do right now, is grab them and hold them as tight as I can.

    My heart goes out to the people directly affected by this in any way, and with no less heart, to you all too. Love, and love greatly.
    *2016 Transition Patrol Carbon (aka: Sweet Pea)

  6. #6
    I didn't do it
    Reputation: Mookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    9,278
    I'm with you Gnar, I will need a diversion now more than ever. I can't think of a better way to clear my head than getting out on my bike for a few hours on the trail.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    407
    No words can help or describe today.
    We need more love, more respect and more family.
    May those angels that went today be an example to all, to become better indiviuals to each other and society.
    God bless you all.
    Lynn Woods
    JRA cycles

  8. #8
    ready to ride
    Reputation: mattnmtns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    846
    Just horrible, can't even put it to words. My thoughts and prayers are going out to the families who lost loved ones.

    Whats kind of freaking me out is my wife and I watched Bowling for Columbine with our kids last night. It was odd having to explaining it with a historical perspective.Explained to them that is why they have lock down drills etc now. Then today happens. Just shows you can never be prepared. It still begs the question why do we have so much gun violence in the USA compared to other countries. Also very saddening that little to no progress had been made in the last decade.

    Pissed me off enough to ride about 10 miles with the Husky today.
    Sent via my heady vibes from the heart of Pisgahstan

  9. #9
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    26
    Its absolutely shocking . When i heard i hugged my little ones so tight and shed a tear, i hid it from them as they are so innocent and dont need to know of the badness in the world. Still cant fathom how someone could do this.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,670
    Wish my trails weren't covered in cold air and snow. Maybe a long hike will have to suffice tomorrow.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    892
    My wife is a teacher though my kids are not yet in school. I just makes you pause when something so senseless happens. I mean little kids that did nothing wrong yet, they are not even old enough to have done anything.

  12. #12
    No Stranger to danger....
    Reputation: Tone's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    4,596
    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog View Post
    Yeah. Who knows what turns some people to get that disturbed in just 24 yrs. Just picked up my 22 yr old daughter at lax coming home from law school at Yale to hear about this. Just about 50 miles from New Haven! Just gave her a big hug and she gets another when she wakes from her nap after the 15 hr train/plane trip across the country. No need to tell you all to hug your kids too and pray for the ones whose young lives were taken too soon and for the ones who'd give anything to hug them again.
    Its called mental illness in many different shapes and forms, as Dion said in another thread more work needs to be done in this area, brain chemistry is a very delicate thing, some never have to deal with it and others have to try and deal with it every day hopefully with the with the help of society..
    The second issue is gun laws and the availability of semi and automatic weapons and hand guns, but as this debate of gun control is very sensitive for some i'll leave it at that..
    My heart goes out to those effected by this terrible tragedy, so many young innocent lives ended and so many shattered families..
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,453
    Very disturbing....To leave this world so young leaving grieving parents behind,unimaginable.

  14. #14
    ready to ride
    Reputation: mattnmtns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    846
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Its called mental illness in many different shapes and forms, as Dion said in another thread more work needs to be done in this area, brain chemistry is a very delicate thing, some never have to deal with it and others have to try and deal with it every day hopefully with the with the help of society..
    The second issue is gun laws and the availability of semi and automatic weapons and hand guns, but as this debate of gun control is very sensitive for some i'll leave it at that..
    My heart goes out to those effected by this terrible tragedy, so many young innocent lives ended and so many shattered families..
    So the USA is the only country that has people who are mentally ill? The only country that has folks with a lot of guns? Albeit not as many assault rifles and handguns. I don't know what the answer is but at this point I am all for stronger gun control. For what it is worth I own an assault rifle, pistol, and a shotgun. I haven't fire any of them in years. I just don't see the need for average citizens to have access to semi automatic rifles and pistols. Guns for hunting ok, no argument there. Guns for protection? Remind me again who these guns are protecting?

    Like I said I don't know the answer but I think it is time the USA have a serious dialouge about a solution. One that doesn't turn into a political talking point, but I am sure that is where it will end up. Its just sad and frustrating things haven't really changed in the past decade.
    Sent via my heady vibes from the heart of Pisgahstan

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: SlowPokePete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,575
    I am a kindergarten teacher with 22 five year olds in my class. I used to live in CT, not too far from there. I still live within 45 minutes of Newtown. My own three kids are all in HS now. It is hard to believe how or why something like this could happen, or, realistically, how it could have been prevented. And as is so often the case, the only one with the answers is dead as well. I will say that Mental Illness is vast and prevalent, and it is an area where many people need more and better and "covered by insurance" care.

    SPP
    Rigid.

  16. #16
    No Stranger to danger....
    Reputation: Tone's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    4,596
    Quote Originally Posted by mattnmtns View Post
    So the USA is the only country that has people who are mentally ill? The only country that has folks with a lot of guns? Albeit not as many assault rifles and handguns. I don't know what the answer is but at this point I am all for stronger gun control. For what it is worth I own an assault rifle, pistol, and a shotgun. I haven't fire any of them in years. I just don't see the need for average citizens to have access to semi automatic rifles and pistols. Guns for hunting ok, no argument there. Guns for protection? Remind me again who these guns are protecting?

    Like I said I don't know the answer but I think it is time the USA have a serious dialouge about a solution. One that doesn't turn into a political talking point, but I am sure that is where it will end up. Its just sad and frustrating things haven't really changed in the past decade.
    Matt, you must be takin the piss mate, where did i say or imply that the USA is the only country that has mentally ill people and the only country that has a lot of guns??
    Just ridiculous stuff Matt.....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bmf032's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    218
    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    Wish my trails weren't covered in cold air and snow. Maybe a long hike will have to suffice tomorrow.
    Come down to Ft. Collins. No snow here.
    I was fortunate enough to spend some time in an elementary school yesterday. Being surrounded by beautiful children was a true gift.
    Words fail me. I will just continue to pray for all of those effected by this tragedy.

  18. #18
    2006 Yeti AS-X
    Reputation: Lawson Raider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,043
    What happened in CT was absolutely horrible and so unfathomable that someone would be so evil as to do such a deed. The situation is sad and I pray for all the family and friends affected by this.

    Situations like these are very easy for folks to get too emotional and think from emotion instead of reason. I know an earlier poster didn't want to discuss gun control in the same statement he made a statement about it - if you didn't want the conversation, don't bring it up and then bow out saying you weren't trying to bring it up - be honest - yes you were.

    The shooter had a .223 bushmaster and two handguns - 3 in all with some reports he had more in the car. It is easily stated he was heavily armed. How many guns did the principal and her staff have? Zero. Because schools are gun-free zones, you have in effect a total gun ban and no second amendment on those properties so that should pretty much tell you all you need to know about gun control - the simple fact is that it doesn't work but rather has the opposite effect - it attracts those bent on massacring innocent people to those places.

    The shooter didn't go to city hall, the capitol building, a police station and attempt to shoot as many folks did he? Do you wonder why? It's pretty explanatory that he couldn't get the numbers because he would have been taken down by those in those facilities who are armed.

    The President named a few mass shootings that have happened in the past several years - do you want to know the common denominator? They all happened where no one is armed and all in gun free zones. These shooters are cowards so they go where they know they can rack up massive casualties without anyone being able to fight back.

    There are over 2000 gun control laws all around this nation - yet did it stop this massacre last Friday? No. Will banning guns regardless of how "bogeyman" they look be effective at preventing these types of tragedies? No. On the same day this tragedy occurred, a guy in China went and killed 8 kids with a knife and in China there is no gun rights at all.

    The media and our politicians would have us believe that it is our access to firearms that create these tragedies but then look at that logic - 1 in 3 Americans own firearms which is about 100 million gun owners...Americans should be extinct with all the firearms in this nation if that logic was correct. Most Americans who own guns don't go around shooting other folks and are just as trustworthy as the policeman who patrols your neighborhood who also has a gun.

    I don't think mentally ill folks should have guns nor criminals but the simple fact is they have guns and if someone wants a gun they are going to get one by any means necessary. I know this because I have a cousin in prison for the rest of his life because he shot a guy several years ago - he was a felon who by law is forbidden to possess guns but stole them and went to do his deed.

    So it wasn't the accessibility of guns that caused this massacre but rather the inaccessibilty of guns to those who were at the school (principal and staff) who could have if there were firearms available have defended themselves from this monster who went there because he knew there was no ability for the intended target to fight back.

    In our society, we are told to call the police for our security and forget the 2nd amendment to our Bill of Rights of our Constitution is there not just so we can go deer hunting and pop cans off of fenceposts - it is there to protect Americans rights to defend themselves from those that intend to do us harm whether it be a criminal gunman or our government if they decide to harm us physically.

    We the people have lost the responsibility that our security is mainly our responsibilty - the Supreme Court has ruled that the police do not have a legal obligation to your personal well-being (they do this but you cannot sue them if as a result of a crime you suffer loss).

    We allow our politicians to tell us we need tighter gun control - yet these same politicians are surrounded by firearms (secret service, bodyguards, etc) and will you see them tell them to disarm themselves? No. Some of our loudest gun control hounds are armed themselves and/or constantly surrounded by armed individuals charged with their personal security. Why are we regular joe Americans not as important to be able to provide for our own security? Is not my family important enough to protect from some criminal who wants to do me and them harm? Is my life not as important as Barbara Boxer's?

    In summary, I think we should do away with gun free zones altogether and either let teachers and staff have firearms (they would have to have the same background checks as a normal person would have to have) or a designated staff member who is trained have firearms and the individual who is holding that role is not advertised as having that role. Someone should be in the position to be able to defend the students and staff from these monsters who wish to prey on them.
    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    What happened in CT was absolutely horrible and so unfathomable that someone would be so evil as to do such a deed. The situation is sad and I pray for all the family and friends affected by this.

    Situations like these are very easy for folks to get too emotional and think from emotion instead of reason. I know an earlier poster didn't want to discuss gun control in the same statement he made a statement about it - if you didn't want the conversation, don't bring it up and then bow out saying you weren't trying to bring it up - be honest - yes you were.

    The shooter had a .223 bushmaster and two handguns - 3 in all with some reports he had more in the car. It is easily stated he was heavily armed. How many guns did the principal and her staff have? Zero. Because schools are gun-free zones, you have in effect a total gun ban and no second amendment on those properties so that should pretty much tell you all you need to know about gun control - the simple fact is that it doesn't work but rather has the opposite effect - it attracts those bent on massacring innocent people to those places.

    The shooter didn't go to city hall, the capitol building, a police station and attempt to shoot as many folks did he? Do you wonder why? It's pretty explanatory that he couldn't get the numbers because he would have been taken down by those in those facilities who are armed.

    The President named a few mass shootings that have happened in the past several years - do you want to know the common denominator? They all happened where no one is armed and all in gun free zones. These shooters are cowards so they go where they know they can rack up massive casualties without anyone being able to fight back.

    There are over 2000 gun control laws all around this nation - yet did it stop this massacre last Friday? No. Will banning guns regardless of how "bogeyman" they look be effective at preventing these types of tragedies? No. On the same day this tragedy occurred, a guy in China went and killed 8 kids with a knife and in China there is no gun rights at all.

    The media and our politicians would have us believe that it is our access to firearms that create these tragedies but then look at that logic - 1 in 3 Americans own firearms which is about 100 million gun owners...Americans should be extinct with all the firearms in this nation if that logic was correct. Most Americans who own guns don't go around shooting other folks and are just as trustworthy as the policeman who patrols your neighborhood who also has a gun.

    I don't think mentally ill folks should have guns nor criminals but the simple fact is they have guns and if someone wants a gun they are going to get one by any means necessary. I know this because I have a cousin in prison for the rest of his life because he shot a guy several years ago - he was a felon who by law is forbidden to possess guns but stole them and went to do his deed.

    So it wasn't the accessibility of guns that caused this massacre but rather the inaccessibilty of guns to those who were at the school (principal and staff) who could have if there were firearms available have defended themselves from this monster who went there because he knew there was no ability for the intended target to fight back.

    In our society, we are told to call the police for our security and forget the 2nd amendment to our Bill of Rights of our Constitution is there not just so we can go deer hunting and pop cans off of fenceposts - it is there to protect Americans rights to defend themselves from those that intend to do us harm whether it be a criminal gunman or our government if they decide to harm us physically.

    We the people have lost the responsibility that our security is mainly our responsibilty - the Supreme Court has ruled that the police do not have a legal obligation to your personal well-being (they do this but you cannot sue them if as a result of a crime you suffer loss).

    We allow our politicians to tell us we need tighter gun control - yet these same politicians are surrounded by firearms (secret service, bodyguards, etc) and will you see them tell them to disarm themselves? No. Some of our loudest gun control hounds are armed themselves and/or constantly surrounded by armed individuals charged with their personal security. Why are we regular joe Americans not as important to be able to provide for our own security? Is not my family important enough to protect from some criminal who wants to do me and them harm? Is my life not as important as Barbara Boxer's?

    In summary, I think we should do away with gun free zones altogether and either let teachers and staff have firearms (they would have to have the same background checks as a normal person would have to have) or a designated staff member who is trained have firearms and the individual who is holding that role is not advertised as having that role. Someone should be in the position to be able to defend the students and staff from these monsters who wish to prey on them.
    this is one of the most retarded pro gun posts i've ever read. yeah, let's all arm ourselves 24/7. great idea.

  20. #20
    jalepenio jimenez
    Reputation: mudflap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    633

    good perspective on gun ownership

    came across this comment on a website I visit and thought it relayed a good message...

    I have been a gun owner for more than 30 years...
    byOldJackPine

    I hunt. Much of the meat that my family eats during the year comes from local wild game and I derive great satisfaction from the experience of hunting and the ability to feed my family locally sourced, organic, environmentally friendly game that I procure, butcher, and prepare myself. In addition, my son and I enjoy shooting clay pigeons at our local shooting range. My friends and co-workers are mostly hunters as well and in my community, wild game is little more remarkable than food from the grocery or the local farmer's market. I have had extensive formal training in gun safety and rifle marksmanship. My guns are locked in a safe when not in use. I should be the archetype of an NRA supporter. But...

    I am a dad. I am the husband of an elementary school teacher who works too hard and commits too fully to her students (it's a trait that good teachers share). And I am saddened to my core by the shootings in Connecticut. I cannot even imagine the pain that those poor families are feeling and I will pray for peace for them tonight.

    I have never joined the NRA. I have been invited many times but I was initially turned off by their absolutist position on gun regulation and I was later repelled by their politics and by the way that they try to conflate the good that is accomplished for conservation by hunting with their interpretation of the 2nd amendment. I hope today is the beginning of the end for their influence in our country.

    So yes...lets have the national conversation about a more rational gun policy. This country won't ban the private ownership of guns and I don't think it would be wise even if we did. Similarly, it may be impossible to prevent a disturbed individual from procuring a gun if they are sufficiently motivated, but for the sake of these victims there have to be ways to make tragedies like the one in Connecticut today less likely. Lets talk about making tactical weapons and high capacity magazines illegal for private ownership. Lets talk about raising the regulatory oversight on those who may purchase and own small weapons like handguns that can easily be concealed. Lets talk about proficiency requirements and regulations on the storage and registration of private firearms. There are European countries with much stricter gun laws that also maintain rich hunting traditions. Lets raise the penalties for crimes committed while using a gun and lets enforce the gun laws on the books. I'm sure there are better ideas out there and I don't claim to be a 2nd amendment scholar but surely we can do better. Lets get serious.

    I have never felt that my sporting arms were threatened by those who were calling for tighter regulations on gun sales and ownership - particularly when directed at cheap handguns and guns whose value as sporting arms was marginal or specious. The fear of a slippery slope leading from common sense gun regulation to the loss of hunting firearms is a fear that the NRA uses to sell its political agenda. It is false. A gun is a tool like a hammer but unlike other tools, guns are designed and optimized to deliver projectiles for the purpose of killing efficiently. In the context of hunting, this efficiency is needed to ensure that an animal dies as quickly and humanely as possible. However, this is also the reason why the "guns don't kill people, people do..." line of reasoning rings hollow. One can kill another person with a hammer or with a car but that is not what hammers and cars are designed to do. Guns are a special case and we should start by acknowledging that.

    As I left the house tonight, I kissed my son on the forehead. Its a little unusual for us. He's 13 now and I can still get away with it but it won't be long before I can't. We ate venison from his deer last night. I was sitting next to him a month ago on a bluebird crisp morning in the woods when he shot it and it was a high point for both of us during a time when I have this melancholy feeling that our relationship is changing. I also had the "there but for the grace of God go I..." thought in remembrance of the grieving families in Connecticut tonight. What can one say?

    There is much anger and sadness tonight. Its justified. But don't direct it at gun owners who could be allies in the fight against the NRA Here is a plea from a responsible gun owner (self-described). I want rational gun laws. If it inconveniences me, so be it. There are other responsible gun owners out there. Let's make a down payment on insuring that we prevent the next gun tragedy from happening.

    ORIGINALLY POSTED TO OLDJACKPINE ON FRI DEC 14, 2012
    White Clouds - Heart of Idaho

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by mudflap View Post
    came across this comment on a website I visit and thought it relayed a good message...

    I have been a gun owner for more than 30 years...
    byOldJackPine

    I hunt. Much of the meat that my family eats during the year comes from local wild game and I derive great satisfaction from the experience of hunting and the ability to feed my family locally sourced, organic, environmentally friendly game that I procure, butcher, and prepare myself. In addition, my son and I enjoy shooting clay pigeons at our local shooting range. My friends and co-workers are mostly hunters as well and in my community, wild game is little more remarkable than food from the grocery or the local farmer's market. I have had extensive formal training in gun safety and rifle marksmanship. My guns are locked in a safe when not in use. I should be the archetype of an NRA supporter. But...

    I am a dad. I am the husband of an elementary school teacher who works too hard and commits too fully to her students (it's a trait that good teachers share). And I am saddened to my core by the shootings in Connecticut. I cannot even imagine the pain that those poor families are feeling and I will pray for peace for them tonight.

    I have never joined the NRA. I have been invited many times but I was initially turned off by their absolutist position on gun regulation and I was later repelled by their politics and by the way that they try to conflate the good that is accomplished for conservation by hunting with their interpretation of the 2nd amendment. I hope today is the beginning of the end for their influence in our country.

    So yes...lets have the national conversation about a more rational gun policy. This country won't ban the private ownership of guns and I don't think it would be wise even if we did. Similarly, it may be impossible to prevent a disturbed individual from procuring a gun if they are sufficiently motivated, but for the sake of these victims there have to be ways to make tragedies like the one in Connecticut today less likely. Lets talk about making tactical weapons and high capacity magazines illegal for private ownership. Lets talk about raising the regulatory oversight on those who may purchase and own small weapons like handguns that can easily be concealed. Lets talk about proficiency requirements and regulations on the storage and registration of private firearms. There are European countries with much stricter gun laws that also maintain rich hunting traditions. Lets raise the penalties for crimes committed while using a gun and lets enforce the gun laws on the books. I'm sure there are better ideas out there and I don't claim to be a 2nd amendment scholar but surely we can do better. Lets get serious.

    I have never felt that my sporting arms were threatened by those who were calling for tighter regulations on gun sales and ownership - particularly when directed at cheap handguns and guns whose value as sporting arms was marginal or specious. The fear of a slippery slope leading from common sense gun regulation to the loss of hunting firearms is a fear that the NRA uses to sell its political agenda. It is false. A gun is a tool like a hammer but unlike other tools, guns are designed and optimized to deliver projectiles for the purpose of killing efficiently. In the context of hunting, this efficiency is needed to ensure that an animal dies as quickly and humanely as possible. However, this is also the reason why the "guns don't kill people, people do..." line of reasoning rings hollow. One can kill another person with a hammer or with a car but that is not what hammers and cars are designed to do. Guns are a special case and we should start by acknowledging that.

    As I left the house tonight, I kissed my son on the forehead. Its a little unusual for us. He's 13 now and I can still get away with it but it won't be long before I can't. We ate venison from his deer last night. I was sitting next to him a month ago on a bluebird crisp morning in the woods when he shot it and it was a high point for both of us during a time when I have this melancholy feeling that our relationship is changing. I also had the "there but for the grace of God go I..." thought in remembrance of the grieving families in Connecticut tonight. What can one say?

    There is much anger and sadness tonight. Its justified. But don't direct it at gun owners who could be allies in the fight against the NRA Here is a plea from a responsible gun owner (self-described). I want rational gun laws. If it inconveniences me, so be it. There are other responsible gun owners out there. Let's make a down payment on insuring that we prevent the next gun tragedy from happening.

    ORIGINALLY POSTED TO OLDJACKPINE ON FRI DEC 14, 2012
    that was well said by the op

  22. #22
    2006 Yeti AS-X
    Reputation: Lawson Raider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,043
    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    this is one of the most retarded pro gun posts i've ever read. yeah, let's all arm ourselves 24/7. great idea.
    What is your suggestion? Instead of bashing like the hordes of others have done on both sides of the issue, why not offer a solution. I have stated my opinion without name calling those who do not agree with me. I stated my opinion respecting everyone on here.

    I have no problem with those whose opinion differs...gun ownership is a personal decision and if you don't believe you should own them, then it is your right to not own them.
    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    27
    The Sandy Hook tragedy has occupied my mind, quite intensly, since it happened. I have been trying to make sense of what happened. I am going for a bike ride to clear my mind, and to think about the victims and survivors of this horrible event. I do my best thinking, reflecting and healing when I am on my bike.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,670
    The gun debate will still be here when all of us are dead. My intention here was just express how grateful I am that I have an outlet that let's me release my negative energy. It's just a shame not everyone call channel away their negative energy in ways not harmful to others. All I can say is apart from keep biking, pay attention to those around you. After losing two people close to me to suicide in the last 3 years, I realize lot's of people are in dire need of help, even though they may not seem like it.

  25. #25
    2006 Yeti AS-X
    Reputation: Lawson Raider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,043
    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    The gun debate will still be here when all of us are dead. My intention here was just express how grateful I am that I have an outlet that let's me release my negative energy. It's just a shame not everyone call channel away their negative energy in ways not harmful to others. All I can say is apart from keep biking, pay attention to those around you. After losing two people close to me to suicide in the last 3 years, I realize lot's of people are in dire need of help, even though they may not seem like it.
    Sorry to hear about the suicides of your close acquaintences. Biking is a huge stress relief for me as well...I wish I could get more riding in.
    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sgtjim57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    626
    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    The gun debate will still be here when all of us are dead. My intention here was just express how grateful I am that I have an outlet that let's me release my negative energy. It's just a shame not everyone call channel away their negative energy in ways not harmful to others. All I can say is apart from keep biking, pay attention to those around you. After losing two people close to me to suicide in the last 3 years, I realize lot's of people are in dire need of help, even though they may not seem like it.
    Totally agree. Biking is what helps me through the week. Retired military and now a school teacher at a local high school. When things like this occur, it "opens our eyes just a little more and at the same time those in charge stick their heads a little deeper in the sand. I bike for stress relief, and I am a gun owner. I don't want to see laws created to start the process of not allowing us as citizens to loose our rights, from gun ownership to speech. It all starts somewhere.

    The answer for many of todays issues start at home. Teach your children right from wrong, be actively involved in their lives and enjoy life while the opportunity is there. It can end so suddenly, and sometimes for no good reason.
    2017 Cannondale Scalpel Si Carbon 3 (27.5)
    2013 Specialized Camber Carbon
    2011 Specialized Stumpjumper Comp

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,670
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    Sorry to hear about the suicides of your close acquaintences. Biking is a huge stress relief for me as well...I wish I could get more riding in.
    Thanks and yes, it is a major stress reliever. You are right. Wyoming continually ranks near or at the top in suicide rates. The harsh winter climate, small population and "cowboy up" mentality make it extremely isolating for many people. It's just good to keep an eye on those around you. Both of those I mentioned who committed suicide gave no clear explanation although now after the fact, I see things I missed.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Rubicon73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    78

    Well stated!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    What happened in CT was absolutely horrible and so unfathomable that someone would be so evil as to do such a deed. The situation is sad and I pray for all the family and friends affected by this.

    Situations like these are very easy for folks to get too emotional and think from emotion instead of reason. I know an earlier poster didn't want to discuss gun control in the same statement he made a statement about it - if you didn't want the conversation, don't bring it up and then bow out saying you weren't trying to bring it up - be honest - yes you were.

    The shooter had a .223 bushmaster and two handguns - 3 in all with some reports he had more in the car. It is easily stated he was heavily armed. How many guns did the principal and her staff have? Zero. Because schools are gun-free zones, you have in effect a total gun ban and no second amendment on those properties so that should pretty much tell you all you need to know about gun control - the simple fact is that it doesn't work but rather has the opposite effect - it attracts those bent on massacring innocent people to those places.

    The shooter didn't go to city hall, the capitol building, a police station and attempt to shoot as many folks did he? Do you wonder why? It's pretty explanatory that he couldn't get the numbers because he would have been taken down by those in those facilities who are armed.

    The President named a few mass shootings that have happened in the past several years - do you want to know the common denominator? They all happened where no one is armed and all in gun free zones. These shooters are cowards so they go where they know they can rack up massive casualties without anyone being able to fight back.

    There are over 2000 gun control laws all around this nation - yet did it stop this massacre last Friday? No. Will banning guns regardless of how "bogeyman" they look be effective at preventing these types of tragedies? No. On the same day this tragedy occurred, a guy in China went and killed 8 kids with a knife and in China there is no gun rights at all.

    The media and our politicians would have us believe that it is our access to firearms that create these tragedies but then look at that logic - 1 in 3 Americans own firearms which is about 100 million gun owners...Americans should be extinct with all the firearms in this nation if that logic was correct. Most Americans who own guns don't go around shooting other folks and are just as trustworthy as the policeman who patrols your neighborhood who also has a gun.

    I don't think mentally ill folks should have guns nor criminals but the simple fact is they have guns and if someone wants a gun they are going to get one by any means necessary. I know this because I have a cousin in prison for the rest of his life because he shot a guy several years ago - he was a felon who by law is forbidden to possess guns but stole them and went to do his deed.

    So it wasn't the accessibility of guns that caused this massacre but rather the inaccessibilty of guns to those who were at the school (principal and staff) who could have if there were firearms available have defended themselves from this monster who went there because he knew there was no ability for the intended target to fight back.

    In our society, we are told to call the police for our security and forget the 2nd amendment to our Bill of Rights of our Constitution is there not just so we can go deer hunting and pop cans off of fenceposts - it is there to protect Americans rights to defend themselves from those that intend to do us harm whether it be a criminal gunman or our government if they decide to harm us physically.

    We the people have lost the responsibility that our security is mainly our responsibilty - the Supreme Court has ruled that the police do not have a legal obligation to your personal well-being (they do this but you cannot sue them if as a result of a crime you suffer loss).

    We allow our politicians to tell us we need tighter gun control - yet these same politicians are surrounded by firearms (secret service, bodyguards, etc) and will you see them tell them to disarm themselves? No. Some of our loudest gun control hounds are armed themselves and/or constantly surrounded by armed individuals charged with their personal security. Why are we regular joe Americans not as important to be able to provide for our own security? Is not my family important enough to protect from some criminal who wants to do me and them harm? Is my life not as important as Barbara Boxer's?

    In summary, I think we should do away with gun free zones altogether and either let teachers and staff have firearms (they would have to have the same background checks as a normal person would have to have) or a designated staff member who is trained have firearms and the individual who is holding that role is not advertised as having that role. Someone should be in the position to be able to defend the students and staff from these monsters who wish to prey on them.
    I feel very similarly... Its a shame guns got into this kids hands and will be interesting to find out how he got ahold of them. If hes mentally derange, he shouldnt have had access through his parents to these firearms.
    I ride faster than I should...

  29. #29
    Bicyclochondriac.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    13,452
    I totally support non-criminals' rights to own guns, but I utterly detest the NRA.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,670
    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    I totally support non-criminals' rights to own guns, but I utterly detest the NRA.
    +1. As a gun owner and a hunter since childhood I agree.

  31. #31
    2006 Yeti AS-X
    Reputation: Lawson Raider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,043
    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon73 View Post
    I feel very similarly... Its a shame guns got into this kids hands and will be interesting to find out how he got ahold of them. If hes mentally derange, he shouldnt have had access through his parents to these firearms.
    I think the guns were registered to his mother which was one of the victims of this guy. Not sure if she gave then to him with the registration in her name or if the kid took them from the house after killing her.

    I take it that this kid had autism or some other issue - not sure how the home life was but if I were to take a gander, I would guess this kid even though he had no criminal record officially, may have been a pain in the butt at home. Hard to think that someone would just go from a good kid to a raging monster killing 20 kids and 6 adults overnight. - not saying that is not possible but usually things work up small and end up larger.

    I have a problem teen myself who I fear is heading the wrong direction so I voluntarily removed all my firearms from my house and stored them securely offsite because of my concern about him. If the mother had concerns about her son if he was exhibiting behavioral issues, she should have done the same...there are situations where firearms should be stored offsite when there are troubled individuals in the house..I can still enjoy my activities such as hunting without having to worry about my troubled teen getting my stuff and doing something stupid with them.

    That is where personal responsibility as a parent and owner comes into play - don't wait for the government to regulate your responsibility, you take it upon yourself to do it. That gives some prevention.
    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  32. #32
    No Stranger to danger....
    Reputation: Tone's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    4,596
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    I think the guns were registered to his mother which was one of the victims of this guy. Not sure if she gave then to him with the registration in her name or if the kid took them from the house after killing her.

    I take it that this kid had autism or some other issue - not sure how the home life was but if I were to take a gander, I would guess this kid even though he had no criminal record officially, may have been a pain in the butt at home. Hard to think that someone would just go from a good kid to a raging monster killing 20 kids and 6 adults overnight. - not saying that is not possible but usually things work up small and end up larger.

    I have a problem teen myself who I fear is heading the wrong direction so I voluntarily removed all my firearms from my house and stored them securely offsite because of my concern about him. If the mother had concerns about her son if he was exhibiting behavioral issues, she should have done the same...there are situations where firearms should be stored offsite when there are troubled individuals in the house..I can still enjoy my activities such as hunting without having to worry about my troubled teen getting my stuff and doing something stupid with them.

    That is where personal responsibility as a parent and owner comes into play - don't wait for the government to regulate your responsibility, you take it upon yourself to do it. That gives some prevention.
    Kudos to you mate, if every parent acted and took responsibility like you do many of these tragedies and tragedies in general would be averted, a great post, reps to you...
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  33. #33
    No Stranger to danger....
    Reputation: Tone's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    4,596
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    What happened in CT was absolutely horrible and so unfathomable that someone would be so evil as to do such a deed. The situation is sad and I pray for all the family and friends affected by this.

    Situations like these are very easy for folks to get too emotional and think from emotion instead of reason. I know an earlier poster didn't want to discuss gun control in the same statement he made a statement about it - if you didn't want the conversation, don't bring it up and then bow out saying you weren't trying to bring it up - be honest - yes you were.

    The shooter had a .223 bushmaster and two handguns - 3 in all with some reports he had more in the car. It is easily stated he was heavily armed. How many guns did the principal and her staff have? Zero. Because schools are gun-free zones, you have in effect a total gun ban and no second amendment on those properties so that should pretty much tell you all you need to know about gun control - the simple fact is that it doesn't work but rather has the opposite effect - it attracts those bent on massacring innocent people to those places.

    The shooter didn't go to city hall, the capitol building, a police station and attempt to shoot as many folks did he? Do you wonder why? It's pretty explanatory that he couldn't get the numbers because he would have been taken down by those in those facilities who are armed.

    The President named a few mass shootings that have happened in the past several years - do you want to know the common denominator? They all happened where no one is armed and all in gun free zones. These shooters are cowards so they go where they know they can rack up massive casualties without anyone being able to fight back.

    There are over 2000 gun control laws all around this nation - yet did it stop this massacre last Friday? No. Will banning guns regardless of how "bogeyman" they look be effective at preventing these types of tragedies? No. On the same day this tragedy occurred, a guy in China went and killed 8 kids with a knife and in China there is no gun rights at all.

    The media and our politicians would have us believe that it is our access to firearms that create these tragedies but then look at that logic - 1 in 3 Americans own firearms which is about 100 million gun owners...Americans should be extinct with all the firearms in this nation if that logic was correct. Most Americans who own guns don't go around shooting other folks and are just as trustworthy as the policeman who patrols your neighborhood who also has a gun.

    I don't think mentally ill folks should have guns nor criminals but the simple fact is they have guns and if someone wants a gun they are going to get one by any means necessary. I know this because I have a cousin in prison for the rest of his life because he shot a guy several years ago - he was a felon who by law is forbidden to possess guns but stole them and went to do his deed.

    So it wasn't the accessibility of guns that caused this massacre but rather the inaccessibilty of guns to those who were at the school (principal and staff) who could have if there were firearms available have defended themselves from this monster who went there because he knew there was no ability for the intended target to fight back.

    In our society, we are told to call the police for our security and forget the 2nd amendment to our Bill of Rights of our Constitution is there not just so we can go deer hunting and pop cans off of fenceposts - it is there to protect Americans rights to defend themselves from those that intend to do us harm whether it be a criminal gunman or our government if they decide to harm us physically.

    We the people have lost the responsibility that our security is mainly our responsibilty - the Supreme Court has ruled that the police do not have a legal obligation to your personal well-being (they do this but you cannot sue them if as a result of a crime you suffer loss).

    We allow our politicians to tell us we need tighter gun control - yet these same politicians are surrounded by firearms (secret service, bodyguards, etc) and will you see them tell them to disarm themselves? No. Some of our loudest gun control hounds are armed themselves and/or constantly surrounded by armed individuals charged with their personal security. Why are we regular joe Americans not as important to be able to provide for our own security? Is not my family important enough to protect from some criminal who wants to do me and them harm? Is my life not as important as Barbara Boxer's?

    In summary, I think we should do away with gun free zones altogether and either let teachers and staff have firearms (they would have to have the same background checks as a normal person would have to have) or a designated staff member who is trained have firearms and the individual who is holding that role is not advertised as having that role. Someone should be in the position to be able to defend the students and staff from these monsters who wish to prey on them.
    The reason i mentioned it in an earlier thread and didnt continue with it was to show i think its an area that has to be addressed but also because i have bought it up in another thread to which serious debate followed and many were upset that the gun debate was detracting from the tragedy.

    For the record im not anti guns, my father was a Taxidermist and shooter and i grew up shooting and had a house full of guns..
    Im for people to take greater responsibility with the security of them, and im all for the banning of automatic and semi automatic weapons and for the banning of handguns.
    All three are banned here and we have had one mass shooting in 25 years and we have our fair share of lunatics here.

    Ive asked in another thread could somebody give me the reasons and uses of semi and automatic weapons BAR law enforcement in society and im yet to get one answer..

    Better work needs to be done with mental illness
    Tougher gun regulations are needed
    The banning of handguns and autos a semis are needed imo
    Tougher home security is needed with weapons in general
    Tougher screening is needed when buying weapons

    Just my opinion...
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: F.N.G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,450
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    What is your suggestion? Instead of bashing like the hordes of others have done on both sides of the issue, why not offer a solution. I have stated my opinion without name calling those who do not agree with me. I stated my opinion respecting everyone on here.

    I have no problem with those whose opinion differs...gun ownership is a personal decision and if you don't believe you should own them, then it is your right to not own them.
    He has none. He is just a guy who sits in front of his computer all the time spewing nonsense.

  35. #35
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    26,223
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post

    The shooter had a .223 bushmaster and two handguns - 3 in all with some reports he had more in the car. It is easily stated he was heavily armed. How many guns did the principal and her staff have? Zero. Because schools are gun-free zones, you have in effect a total gun ban and no second amendment on those properties so that should pretty much tell you all you need to know about gun control - the simple fact is that it doesn't work but rather has the opposite effect - it attracts those bent on massacring innocent people to those places..
    So we'll have to arm all teachers, then arm all employees in malls, then arm everyone at state fairs, then arm everyone walking on the sidewalk.

    It's ridiculous and not the answer.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  36. #36
    No Stranger to danger....
    Reputation: Tone's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    4,596
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    So we'll have to arm all teachers, then arm all employees in malls, then arm everyone at state fairs, then arm everyone walking on the sidewalk.

    It's ridiculous and not the answer.
    Totally agree its not even close to the answer.
    First of all it takes a blink of an eye to commit many of these crimes, how in hell a school with primary school female teachers is going to stop these blokes until after the carnage has happened is beyond me, plus most of these guys will not be detered with the possibility of being shot, most kill themselves anyway.
    IMO its just not realistic to say that the problem lies not with the accessibility of guns but it lies with the fact not everybody in the country is armed lol..
    This situation was all about how accessible the firearms were, and the guy would have achived exactly the same outcome had the female teachers in this school had have been armed..
    IMO it will take decades and decades to introduce new laws and havr the results of them start to show, but every journey starts with one step.
    Last edited by Tone's; 12-16-2012 at 08:52 PM.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  37. #37
    Professional Crastinator
    Reputation: Fleas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    4,472
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    So we'll have to arm all teachers, then arm all employees in malls, then arm everyone at state fairs, then arm everyone walking on the sidewalk.

    It's ridiculous and not the answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Totally agree its not even close to the answer.
    First of all it takes a blink of an eye to commit many of these crimes, how in hell a school with primary school female teachers is going to stop these blokes until after the carnage has happened is beyond me, plus most of these guys will not be detered with the possibility of being shot, most kill themselves anyway.
    IMO its just not realistic to say that the problem lies not with the accessibility of guns but it lies with the fact not everybody in the country is armed lol..
    This situation was all about how accessible the firearms were, and the guy would have achived exactly the same outcome had the female teachers in this school had have been armed..
    IMO it will take decades and decades to introduce new laws and havr the results of them start to show, but every journey starts with one step.
    I think it is not unreasonable that certain people who work in schools, stadiums, malls, etc. could be allowed to volunteer for special training to thwart this type of assault.

    To get a hunting license you have to pass a course.
    To get a concealed carry permit you have to pass a course.
    If there was another course (not necessarily a firearms course) - a very intensive course that addresses the psychology as well as the techniques required in a situation like that, and evaluates the suitability of the applicant - there could be people at the ready as soon as they hear the first indication of an assault.

    Put yourself in the school at the moment when shots were first heard coming through an outside door...

    What is going through your mind?
    "Gee, I hope that crazy person doesn't come this way."
    Then you pretty much lock the door and sit there until bullets start coming through it.
    That feeling is too helpless to imagine.
    Or do you start shoving kids out the window? Maybe there's someone waiting outside.
    Someone has to have an ability to defend themselves, or some mechanism within the building to isolate or incapacitate the assailant. That could be anything.

    We took a nearly 3 hr. hike with our 7 y.o. today. It was nice out, but we all got muddy anyway and she stepped in the river and the water went over her boot.
    My wife and I forgot about the tragedy for awhile, but it's still there when we got back.
    Still stewing. I need some exertion.

    -F
    It's never easier - you just go faster.

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    543
    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    I totally support non-criminals' rights to own guns, but I utterly detest the NRA.
    This kind of attitude is you're (USA's) biggest downfall. Do you realize, no, I mean do you FARKN realize there have been 90 school shootings (1996-2012) in the US? Do you realize because of your faked up rights that 231 children and teachers have lost their lives? Keep that mentality and that number of school shootings is going to rise and rise. A lot of people seem to value the right to bear arms more than their children, time to grow up, and this is coming from someone who works with a gun for a living. It's the non criminals who are the ones farking up, by not securing them. How the fark do children have access to guns?

    I just saw something disturbing on the news, guns sales in the US has gone up considerably since the shooting, lol, so now there are even more guns in circulation, in the hands of unresponsible owners.
    Last edited by SV11; 12-17-2012 at 08:19 AM.

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,670
    In my state you don't need any permit to carry a gun.

  40. #40
    No Stranger to danger....
    Reputation: Tone's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    4,596
    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    In my state you don't need any permit to carry a gun.
    Well this is just beyond comprehension, if this is the case then nobody has a right in Colorado to be upset at anybody else than the people that have the ability to make the laws and change them when another tragedy happens.
    its just beyond comprahension.
    Im not saying through having everybody have back ground checks can stop every tragedy but without rules like this its just a free for all.
    Ive also heard that in many US states you can buy guns even if you have a history of mental illness and there is no background checks at all, what sort of a society lets this occure?
    If these things are true, there not one iota of doubt the USA needs to get responsible and real about the way you do things in this area, maybe its time to listen to outsiders opinions because it seems that some of the law makers there have totally lost the plot and imo have blood on their hands and imo should be locked up themselves for enabling and not taking the responsibility to do their best to try and make their society a safer place.
    And i'll say it again, i am pro-gun, but pro-gun with a hell of alot of rules and regulation, and im pro taking away semi and automatic weapons from society BAR law enforcement that have the ability to cause mass carnage, because the only reason they were built is to do just that...
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    543
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    And i'll say it again, i am pro-gun, but pro-gun with a hell of alot of rules and regulation, and im pro taking away semi and automatic weapons from society BAR law enforcement that have the ability to cause mass carnage, because the only reason they were built is to do just that...
    I'm the same champ when it comes to pro-gun. Check out my vid.
    Barrett 98 Bravo - YouTube

    I'm pro gun only in a miltary/law enforcement capacity.
    Last edited by SV11; 12-17-2012 at 01:01 AM.

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Rubicon73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Well this is just beyond comprehension, if this is the case then nobody has a right in Colorado to be upset at anybody else than the people that have the ability to make the laws and change them when another tragedy happens.
    its just beyond comprahension.
    Im not saying through having everybody have back ground checks can stop every tragedy but without rules like this its just a free for all.
    Ive also heard that in many US states you can buy guns even if you have a history of mental illness and there is no background checks at all, what sort of a society lets this occure?
    If these things are true, there not one iota of doubt the USA needs to get responsible and real about the way you do things in this area, maybe its time to listen to outsiders opinions because it seems that some of the law makers there have totally lost the plot and imo have blood on their hands and imo should be locked up themselves for enabling and not taking the responsibility to do their best to try and make their society a safer place.
    And i'll say it again, i am pro-gun, but pro-gun with a hell of alot of rules and regulation, and im pro taking away semi and automatic weapons from society BAR law enforcement that have the ability to cause mass carnage, because the only reason they were built is to do just that...
    Not sure where he got his info but that is false... Every retail purchase of a firearm must have at least an instant background check over the phone (most states are more thorough). The only exceptions are concealed carry license holders. There are millions of law abiding owners of firearms all across our country that have no issues with the law. Its a slippery slope when you start taking away liberties. Im in the military, and have carried a loaded 'assault' rifle for longer than I care to remember and its never jumped up and shot at anything without my action. Firearms, like hammers, cars, etc. are instruments of their operator. Thousands die each year in drunk driving incidents each year in our country... Do we strip liberties of automobiles from every American? Im not blind... I dont believe everyone has the maturity and capacity to own firearms, but those that enjoy the hobby should be allowed to own what they desire following proper checks.
    I ride faster than I should...

  43. #43
    Rogue Exterminator
    Reputation: kjlued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,956
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    The second issue is gun laws and the availability of semi and automatic weapons and hand guns, but as this debate of gun control is very sensitive for some i'll leave it at that..
    Tone, I like you but that is Pandoras box and you should have never opened it . You certainly can't open it and then slam it shut.

    I have a lot of ideas on this subject as I am sure many people do, but there is no perfect solution.
    Last edited by kjlued; 12-17-2012 at 05:31 AM.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    What is your suggestion? Instead of bashing like the hordes of others have done on both sides of the issue, why not offer a solution. I have stated my opinion without name calling those who do not agree with me. I stated my opinion respecting everyone on here.

    I have no problem with those whose opinion differs...gun ownership is a personal decision and if you don't believe you should own them, then it is your right to not own them.
    my suggestion would be to ban automatic weapons and hand guns. no one "needs" them. nothing wrong with hunting and owning weapons for that. arming everyone to "protect" them is hardly an answer. how do you keep simple matters and disagreements from escalating to murder when people are fully armed? that is your answer? in the heat of the moment during a simple argument, what happens when someone has a gun? why is it necessary to be armed always? who are we protecting ourselves from? the government?

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    So we'll have to arm all teachers, then arm all employees in malls, then arm everyone at state fairs, then arm everyone walking on the sidewalk.

    It's ridiculous and not the answer.
    totally agree with that

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon73 View Post
    Not sure where he got his info but that is false... Every retail purchase of a firearm must have at least an instant background check over the phone (most states are more thorough). The only exceptions are concealed carry license holders. There are millions of law abiding owners of firearms all across our country that have no issues with the law. Its a slippery slope when you start taking away liberties. Im in the military, and have carried a loaded 'assault' rifle for longer than I care to remember and its never jumped up and shot at anything without my action. Firearms, like hammers, cars, etc. are instruments of their operator. Thousands die each year in drunk driving incidents each year in our country... Do we strip liberties of automobiles from every American? Im not blind... I dont believe everyone has the maturity and capacity to own firearms, but those that enjoy the hobby should be allowed to own what they desire following proper checks.
    a gun has one purpose, to kill. a car is a means of transportation. hardly a comparison of liberties is it that you're using?

    there is nothing wrong with hunting and owning guns for doing it. who actually needs a handgun or assault rifle outside of the police or military? joe average hardly needs to be armed that way.

    but sadly, gun ownership and rights is just another form of religion. the believers won't listen to blasphemy denying their god, so ultimately, arguing about it is pointless despite the evidence (multiple school shootings) right in front of people.

  47. #47
    High Desert MTBer
    Reputation: rockerc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    5,016
    Since we are there, I would just like to say that in my view, absolutely no good comes out of the barrel of a gun, EVER. So we should do everything in our power to educate the people who think that we should be allowed to bear arms that this is just stupid. People say that they should be kept for hunting purposes, and I agree that this is a legitimate use, but there have been just too many instances of misuse of even these weapons, and really, hunting is more of a barbaric sport than a necessity these days. We have shown that in general we cannot be trusted. In my mind, the cons FAR outweigh the pros to this. These mass shootings are just the tip of the iceberg, and there are many more tragedies involving less people and guns. People argue that there are too many guns out there already, and it is just not practical to try and ban them, I call BS on this, MAKE A START! One tragedy avoided is a plus! As has been pointed out, after the Dunblane shooting in Scotland, stricter controls were put on handgun ownership in the UK, and there has not been a mass shooting of this kind since, and in Tasmania after the similar shooting in Port Arthur in '96, gun laws were significantly tightened, and there has been nothing similar since.
    Better access to effective mental health care is also much needed, since mental disease is reaching something like epidemic proportions, and has been stigmatised to the degree that most people are unwilling to talk about it without embarrassment. This is a disease of our age, much the same as AIDS, and we should be giving it as much attention as we can without prejudice. There are many better qualified people than I who have more facts about this, but I do not think I am too far off the mark when I say that these kids who perpetrate these acts of senseless violence would have been much less likely to commit these had they been afforded effective health care when really needed.
    The other thing that I want to bring up that I feel is hugely relevant, is the huge growth in violent video games. As a kid I played Cowboys and Indians with cap pistols, much like any other kid, but this was nothing compared to the obsessive indulgence I see in many children who spend hours and hours in front of some shoot em up game which is so very realistic! How can this NOT desensitize you to violence? Killing people becomes a game!?! This is just sick in my view. I feel I was misguided by playing my games when I was young, but I feel that we as adults should absolutely not allow our children to 'play' these things now. The video 'game' companies should not be allowed to create these twisted pieces of 'Entertainment'. We are becoming the audiences in the Hunger Games... I am even more shocked by parents who play these things. How can we encourage this? And, more to the point, how do we discourage this?

    Please excuse my rant, I know many of you disagree with my opinions, and that is OK, I only hope you can read them and try and understand what I am saying. I can only hope that our leaders will now finally do just that, and lead in a drive to do whatever necessary to eradicate this kind of senseless violence. Do we REALLY need guns in our homes, I do not think so. Do we REALLY need violent video games that twist our grasp on 'reality'? No, I do not think so either. Do we REALLY need a comprehensive overhaul of our mental health awareness, education and effective treatment? Absofu**kinglutely!
    It's all Here. Now.

  48. #48
    No Stranger to danger....
    Reputation: Tone's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    4,596
    ^^^ Great post Rockerc, well articulated and thought out, i agree with your sentiments..
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,670
    I grew up hunting. In Wyoming, which is the least-populated state in the coutnry, most kids grow up hunting deer, antelope, elk etc. I don't really hunt anymore. Not because I am against it, in fact hunting is absolutely necessary, but rather because I find more satisfaction from mountain biking. I know I don't need thirty rounds to take down bambi though. I also know an AK47 isn't really necessary. Like I said, you don't need a permit to carry a gun here (cannot carry one in bars, schools etc), in a state as rural as Wyoming the gun laws should be different than a more urban state such as New York. I just don't think I would be offended of assault weapons were banned or high-capacity magazine.

    What I hate about the media is that they think there are only two sides of this. They are usually shown as the stereo-type, the redneck who is militant about his right to carry guns, or the hippy super-liberal who wants all guns gone. The fact is most people are somewhere in the center.

    I also do not understand the obsession about guns. Some people almost worship them. I grew up to respect guns but we never had a gun obsession like so many. We were taught to be understanding about hunting to other who didn't understand it.

  50. #50
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,030
    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    I grew up hunting. In Wyoming, which is the least-populated state in the coutnry, most kids grow up hunting deer, antelope, elk etc. I don't really hunt anymore. Not because I am against it, in fact hunting is absolutely necessary, but rather because I find more satisfaction from mountain biking. I know I don't need thirty rounds to take down bambi though. I also know an AK47 isn't really necessary. Like I said, you don't need a permit to carry a gun here (cannot carry one in bars, schools etc), in a state as rural as Wyoming the gun laws should be different than a more urban state such as New York. I just don't think I would be offended of assault weapons were banned or high-capacity magazine.

    What I hate about the media is that they think there are only two sides of this. They are usually shown as the stereo-type, the redneck who is militant about his right to carry guns, or the hippy super-liberal who wants all guns gone. The fact is most people are somewhere in the center.

    I also do not understand the obsession about guns. Some people almost worship them. I grew up to respect guns but we never had a gun obsession like so many. We were taught to be understanding about hunting to other who didn't understand it.
    Thought you didn't want to debate...

    To your original point, yes, it was great to get out on saturday morning and spend a few hours in the trees. Things like what happened friday make me understand why some people get off the grid.

  51. #51
    2006 Yeti AS-X
    Reputation: Lawson Raider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,043
    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    my suggestion would be to ban automatic weapons and hand guns. no one "needs" them. nothing wrong with hunting and owning weapons for that. arming everyone to "protect" them is hardly an answer. how do you keep simple matters and disagreements from escalating to murder when people are fully armed? that is your answer? in the heat of the moment during a simple argument, what happens when someone has a gun? why is it necessary to be armed always? who are we protecting ourselves from? the government?
    As someone with a very "opinionated" spouse, I am well atuned to heated arguments. Everyone has them - the issue with arguments is that each person wants to be right and/or have the last word and in a heated argument - both people's pride and ego prevent them from letting the other win by having the last word... things keep escalating and with no one having a calm head or self control - the potential for violence is there.

    However, the majority of us won't cross the line into violence and the segment of our population that do are not representative of the majority of us.

    Alot of arguments are avoidable, some are not. You as a participant of an argument cannot control what the other partie(s) actions and attitudes will be but you can control your own. Self control would dictate that you can do your part in preventing the argument from reaching the boiling point by either walking away, calming the situation with your own words and actions, or other means to try to avoid violence.

    I believe we should be allowed to be armed always as protection from criminals..Criminals don't make appointments with their victims so only the criminal knows when a crime is going to occur - they occur on their schedule. The victim usually isn't privy to that knowledge.

    Hence why I believe someone should be always armed -- how many times being unarmed does it take to be a defenseless victim? Just one.

    Also, in my opinion, being armed is a deterrent to those who would wish to do us harm - if we look at these mass shootings - they all happen where no one is armed because these criminals are cowards. They go for easy prey versus prey that can fight back.

    Having been in the military and studied many historical battles, knowing how your enemy thinks is very vital to victory. You put yourself in the mindset of your enemy and you can see things alot more clearer... If you were wanting to rack up dozens of casualties, where would you go? If you wanted to break into a house, which one would you break into? One that you knew 100% the target was unarmed or one you knew 100% was armed? Most criminals do value their own lives so they don't want to check out no more than you do. Obviously, some are exceptions but for the most part, criminals are after gain for themselves.

    As for government, our founders believed it to be a necessary evil...all governments are evil by their nature - filled with power hungry, self serving beaurocrats who all have the potential to misuse their power - just look around the world and anyone can see multiple examples of governments that abuse their power and abuse their citizenry. In layman's term, it's called tyranny.

    It was tyranny that gave birth to this nation in the first place. To say that our government is immune from the same cancer of tyranny that other governments have fallen into is simple blindness - the second amendment was put into our bill of rights because the founding fathers knew even the government that they fought, bled, and died to create could become the same tyranny they just freed themselves from and in their wisdom of checks and balances created the right of the American people to be armed as the ultimate check to the government should they cross the line into tyranny.

    The second amendment can be thanked for the prevention of the mainland United States from not being invaded by Japan in World War II. The Japanese military knew it would be suicidal for them to invade us because "there would be a gun behind every blade of grass".

    Again, look up the history of our nation, the founding fathers... the same Constitution that gives us the vast freedoms and liberties we as the American citizen have is the same Constitution that cages the government with limited powers. The Constitution is a cage to the Government and like a beast in a cage (the founders called it a necessary evil) the beast will always try to find a way out of the cage.
    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  52. #52
    No Stranger to danger....
    Reputation: Tone's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    4,596
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    As someone with a very "opinionated" spouse, I am well atuned to heated arguments. Everyone has them - the issue with arguments is that each person wants to be right and/or have the last word and in a heated argument - both people's pride and ego prevent them from letting the other win by having the last word... things keep escalating and with no one having a calm head or self control - the potential for violence is there.

    However, the majority of us won't cross the line into violence and the segment of our population that do are not representative of the majority of us.

    Alot of arguments are avoidable, some are not. You as a participant of an argument cannot control what the other partie(s) actions and attitudes will be but you can control your own. Self control would dictate that you can do your part in preventing the argument from reaching the boiling point by either walking away, calming the situation with your own words and actions, or other means to try to avoid violence.

    I believe we should be allowed to be armed always as protection from criminals..Criminals don't make appointments with their victims so only the criminal knows when a crime is going to occur - they occur on their schedule. The victim usually isn't privy to that knowledge.

    Hence why I believe someone should be always armed -- how many times being unarmed does it take to be a defenseless victim? Just one.

    Also, in my opinion, being armed is a deterrent to those who would wish to do us harm - if we look at these mass shootings - they all happen where no one is armed because these criminals are cowards. They go for easy prey versus prey that can fight back.

    Having been in the military and studied many historical battles, knowing how your enemy thinks is very vital to victory. You put yourself in the mindset of your enemy and you can see things alot more clearer... If you were wanting to rack up dozens of casualties, where would you go? If you wanted to break into a house, which one would you break into? One that you knew 100% the target was unarmed or one you knew 100% was armed? Most criminals do value their own lives so they don't want to check out no more than you do. Obviously, some are exceptions but for the most part, criminals are after gain for themselves.

    As for government, our founders believed it to be a necessary evil...all governments are evil by their nature - filled with power hungry, self serving beaurocrats who all have the potential to misuse their power - just look around the world and anyone can see multiple examples of governments that abuse their power and abuse their citizenry. In layman's term, it's called tyranny.

    It was tyranny that gave birth to this nation in the first place. To say that our government is immune from the same cancer of tyranny that other governments have fallen into is simple blindness - the second amendment was put into our bill of rights because the founding fathers knew even the government that they fought, bled, and died to create could become the same tyranny they just freed themselves from and in their wisdom of checks and balances created the right of the American people to be armed as the ultimate check to the government should they cross the line into tyranny.

    The second amendment can be thanked for the prevention of the mainland United States from not being invaded by Japan in World War II. The Japanese military knew it would be suicidal for them to invade us because "there would be a gun behind every blade of grass".

    Again, look up the history of our nation, the founding fathers... the same Constitution that gives us the vast freedoms and liberties we as the American citizen have is the same Constitution that cages the government with limited powers. The Constitution is a cage to the Government and like a beast in a cage (the founders called it a necessary evil) the beast will always try to find a way out of the cage.
    Mate i heard a statistic today on TV from an american that only ONCE yes only once has a gunman been shot by an armed observer in any serious shooting spree in the states, that blows the theory above totally out of the water...
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  53. #53
    I Tried Them ALL... SuperModerator
    Reputation: Cayenne_Pepa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    6,235
    Unfortunately, tragedy goes the other way too. In 2004 - we lost a mountain biker, when he went too fast on a overgrown section of local singletrack. He washed-out his front tire, and the crash threw him into a dead, fallen Manzanita tree. One of the protruding branches went right through his neck and severed his jugular...one of the WORST ways to die. RIP...
    "This is a male-dominated forum... there will be lots of Testosterone sword-shaming here" ~ Kenfucius

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,670
    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    Thought you didn't want to debate...

    To your original point, yes, it was great to get out on saturday morning and spend a few hours in the trees. Things like what happened friday make me understand why some people get off the grid.
    Haha yeah, I shouldn't be tempted here! Glad you got to blow off some steam on the saddle. If the wind weren't blowing frigid air right now I might be doing the same.

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CrippledOld Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    The reason i mentioned it in an earlier thread and didnt continue with it was to show i think its an area that has to be addressed but also because i have bought it up in another thread to which serious debate followed and many were upset that the gun debate was detracting from the tragedy.

    For the record im not anti guns, my father was a Taxidermist and shooter and i grew up shooting and had a house full of guns..
    Im for people to take greater responsibility with the security of them, and im all for the banning of automatic and semi automatic weapons and for the banning of handguns.
    All three are banned here and we have had one mass shooting in 25 years and we have our fair share of lunatics here.

    Ive asked in another thread could somebody give me the reasons and uses of semi and automatic weapons BAR law enforcement in society and im yet to get one answer..

    Better work needs to be done with mental illness
    Tougher gun regulations are needed
    The banning of handguns and autos a semis are needed imo
    Tougher home security is needed with weapons in general
    Tougher screening is needed when buying weapons

    Just my opinion...
    The reason for ownership of these type of firearms is simple, its to protect your familiy from the criminals that possess them. A bolt action is no match for a crazed gunman with an AK47... Just sayin
    And yes, I am on my way to an ass kickin contest

  56. #56

  57. #57
    jrm
    jrm is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jrm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    10,710

    ...............

    .................................................. ..
    Last edited by jrm; 12-17-2012 at 09:54 AM. Reason: delete

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,152
    Quote Originally Posted by CrippledOld Guy View Post
    The reason for ownership of these type of firearms is simple, its to protect your familiy from the criminals that possess them. A bolt action is no match for a crazed gunman with an AK47... Just sayin
    How many criminals bust into your house with an AK47 (yes, I saw you live in Salinas)? It doesn't happen to me too often.

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,760
    15 Yeti ASR-c
    14 Yeti ARC
    16 Bianchi Specialissima
    15 Echo Big Deal
    15 Roubaix S-Works

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,152
    I was brought up with guns - lots of many loaded guns (hanging all over the walls) and learned a healthy respect for them as a child. My family is filled with both liberals and conservatives and yep they both own lots of guns (my hippy cousins even have AK47s) - hard for some to believe given prevailing stereotypes, I'd imagine.

    So, I'm very conflicted about gun control. That said, why is it nobody ever commits a crime like this with a bolt action, lever action, hunting shotgun or six shooter? At some point we need to address this issue - what level of weaponry is enough? A poster in Salinas lives in the 'hood and needs to fight criminal with AKs - what happens when that's not enough, does he get a stinger missile?
    Last edited by SS Hack; 12-17-2012 at 10:16 AM.

  61. #61
    mtbr member extraordinair
    Reputation: Stupendous Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,061
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post

    ...

    The shooter had a .223 bushmaster and two handguns - 3 in all with some reports he had more in the car. It is easily stated he was heavily armed. How many guns did the principal and her staff have? Zero. Because schools are gun-free zones, you have in effect a total gun ban and no second amendment on those properties so that should pretty much tell you all you need to know about gun control - the simple fact is that it doesn't work but rather has the opposite effect - it attracts those bent on massacring innocent people to those places.

    The shooter didn't go to city hall, the capitol building, a police station and attempt to shoot as many folks did he? Do you wonder why? It's pretty explanatory that he couldn't get the numbers because he would have been taken down by those in those facilities who are armed.

    ...blah blah blah...
    A killer like this is hell bent on causing as much devastation as he can, in the shortest amount of time. Do you honestly believe this type of reasoning goes through a killers mind during these attacks? If so, you are as delusional as he is.

    Yet another discussion goes straight to the **** bin. Lost already are the legacy of the victims, because our society would rather talk about the perp, and what caused it, and why, and how he was raised, and how he became a victim, and so on and so on....and we'll renew heated debates on gun control and mental illness....and all the while the families of the victims will fade away in silence. There is no news anymore. Its all sensationalism and we gobble it up and keep craving more.
    Grit, spit, and a whole lot of duct tape!

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 53119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    3,285
    a bike ride and Jane's Addiction's - standing in the shower - loud.
    it is just so profoundly wrong to have to bury a child.

  63. #63
    Bicyclochondriac.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    13,452
    Quote Originally Posted by CrippledOld Guy View Post
    The reason for ownership of these type of firearms is simple, its to protect your familiy from the criminals that possess them. A bolt action is no match for a crazed gunman with an AK47... Just sayin
    Ah, yes. The escalating cycle of sales that the gun industry thrives on.

    It is the arms dealer's dream business model: selling arms to both sides of a conflict.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,760
    Quote Originally Posted by Stupendous Man View Post
    A killer like this is hell bent on causing as much devastation as he can, in the shortest amount of time. Do you honestly believe this type of reasoning goes through a killers mind during these attacks? If so, you are as delusional as he is.

    Yet another discussion goes straight to the **** bin. Lost already are the legacy of the victims, because our society would rather talk about the perp, and what caused it, and why, and how he was raised, and how he became a victim, and so on and so on....and we'll renew heated debates on gun control and mental illness....and all the while the families of the victims will fade away in silence. There is no news anymore. Its all sensationalism and we gobble it up and keep craving more.
    Yes, this individual was looking for the weakest victims he could find.
    15 Yeti ASR-c
    14 Yeti ARC
    16 Bianchi Specialissima
    15 Echo Big Deal
    15 Roubaix S-Works

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,670
    So, to tie guns back into mountain biking somehow. Any of you ever carried a gun while riding deep in the back country?

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CrippledOld Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    How many criminals bust into your house with an AK47 (yes, I saw you live in Salinas)? It doesn't happen to me too often.
    Well excuse me for wear I live, we can't all live in "THE CITY" non do we want to. But it is my right to arm myself anyway I see fit. It's also my responsiblity to secure my firearms in a proper manner. As a veteran I've fought to secure these rights for all Americans, regardless of the city they live in.
    And yes, I am on my way to an ass kickin contest

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    12,025
    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    So, to tie guns back into mountain biking somehow. Any of you ever carried a gun while riding deep in the back country?
    of course not....

    I don't want to kill a bear...so I carry spray instead. plus it is way lighter.

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GnarBrahWyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2,670
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott View Post
    of course not....

    I don't want to kill a bear...so I carry spray instead. plus it is way lighter.
    Maybe a carbon fiber gun for weight weenies?

    (before I get a response on how that would never work please know that what I wrote above was a joke =) )

  69. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,760
    Cabela's: Smith & Wesson BODYGUARD® .380 Semiautomatic Pistol

    Only carried while in the back-country alone. Super small and light. 6+1 plus laser. with a ankle hostler is it like it's not even there.

    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    So, to tie guns back into mountain biking somehow. Any of you ever carried a gun while riding deep in the back country?
    15 Yeti ASR-c
    14 Yeti ARC
    16 Bianchi Specialissima
    15 Echo Big Deal
    15 Roubaix S-Works

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    Cabela's: Smith & Wesson BODYGUARD® .380 Semiautomatic Pistol

    Only carried while in the back-country alone. Super small and light. 6+1 plus laser. with a ankle hostler is it like it's not even there.
    why do you carry it when in back country? what are you defending yourself against? serious question

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,760
    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    what are you defending yourself against? serious question
    Whatever I need to. Say I fell and broke a leg. With other stuff in my pack I would have shelter and dinner, at a random squrrils expense. There is no cell service out there. You are on your own.
    15 Yeti ASR-c
    14 Yeti ARC
    16 Bianchi Specialissima
    15 Echo Big Deal
    15 Roubaix S-Works

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CrippledOld Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I was brought up with guns - lots of many loaded guns (hanging all over the walls) and learned a healthy respect for them as a child. My family is filled with both liberals and conservatives and yep they both own lots of guns (my hippy cousins even have AK47s) - hard for some to believe given prevailing stereotypes, I'd imagine.

    So, I'm very conflicted about gun control. That said, why is it nobody ever commits a crime like this with a bolt action, lever action, hunting shotgun or six shooter? At some point we need to address this issue - what level of weaponry is enough? A poster in Salinas lives in the 'hood and needs to fight criminal with AKs - what happens when that's not enough, does he get a stinger missile?
    I'm fine with you having a different opinion on our constitutional right, the defintion of the second ammendment, or tire tread design, but why do you feel compelled to belittle the town I live in? As I said in a previous post "I've paid dearly for this right" From the HOOD, Thx
    And yes, I am on my way to an ass kickin contest

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Kdboxerdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    18
    Anybody stop to consider the media's influence on this? If we all had to read about it in the newspaper tomorrow, or it only got 20 seconds on the newscast at 6 and 11...would we see as many of these types of shootings? Consider that for a minute...Why do we keep giving these shooters power by giving them fame?. I am not minimizing the impact to the families and their community, but I question how it all may motivate people that are wired to act this way.

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    Whatever I need to. Say I fell and broke a leg. With other stuff in my pack I would have shelter and dinner, at a random squrrils expense. There is no cell service out there. You are on your own.
    so killer squirrels????

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    12,025
    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    Whatever I need to. Say I fell and broke a leg. With other stuff in my pack I would have shelter and dinner, at a random squrrils expense. There is no cell service out there. You are on your own.
    Really so you gonna shoot the squirrel, the drag your sorry ass over to the squirrel, then pick it up.

    You will also of course gather the kindiling and fire wood while slithering around on the ground....

    If it is any sort of a real break femur or a tib/fib you will be immobilized.

    Yeah just ride with a friend or two makes a lot better sense.

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CrippledOld Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott View Post
    Really so you gonna shoot the squirrel, the drag your sorry ass over to the squirrel, then pick it up.

    You will also of course gather the kindiling and fire wood while slithering around on the ground....

    If it is any sort of a real break femur or a tib/fib you will be immobilized.

    Yeah just ride with a friend or two makes a lot better sense.
    If your life is in danger you will move, reguardless of the injury. I know this from personal experience. I crawled a quarter of a mile to safety.
    And yes, I am on my way to an ass kickin contest

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,760
    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    so killer squirrels????
    Congratulations on your ability to read.
    15 Yeti ASR-c
    14 Yeti ARC
    16 Bianchi Specialissima
    15 Echo Big Deal
    15 Roubaix S-Works

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    Congratulations on your ability to read.

    congratulations on your ability to take a joke

  79. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,760
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott View Post
    Really so you gonna shoot the squirrel, the drag your sorry ass over to the squirrel, then pick it up.

    You will also of course gather the kindiling and fire wood while slithering around on the ground....

    If it is any sort of a real break femur or a tib/fib you will be immobilized.

    Yeah just ride with a friend or two makes a lot better sense.
    When your faced with surviving or dieing the human can do amazing things. lets remember the guy that cut his own arm off and walked many miles to survive.
    15 Yeti ASR-c
    14 Yeti ARC
    16 Bianchi Specialissima
    15 Echo Big Deal
    15 Roubaix S-Works

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    When your faced with surviving or dieing the human can do amazing things. lets remember the guy that cut his own arm off and walked many miles to survive.
    too bad he didn't have a gun, would have been way quicker shooting his arm off rather than cutting it off with his pocket knife

  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,760
    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    too bad he didn't have a gun, would have been way quicker shooting his arm off rather than cutting it off with his pocket knife
    It would have been. Plus he would have better defense against the zombie killer squirrels.

    Saying zombie killer squirrels expresses more of joke then just killer squirrels.
    15 Yeti ASR-c
    14 Yeti ARC
    16 Bianchi Specialissima
    15 Echo Big Deal
    15 Roubaix S-Works

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,152
    Quote Originally Posted by CrippledOld Guy View Post
    I'm fine with you having a different opinion on our constitutional right, the defintion of the second ammendment, or tire tread design, but why do you feel compelled to belittle the town I live in? As I said in a previous post "I've paid dearly for this right" From the HOOD, Thx
    Sorry, you guys deserve better down there - I've actually lived in worse 'hoods. I do think it's a sad world we live in when people such as yourself feel they need military style weapons for defense.

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    It would have been. Plus he would have better defense against the zombie killer squirrels.

    Saying zombie killer squirrels expresses more of joke then just killer squirrels.
    maybe rapid zombie killer squirrels then. let's take it up a notch

  84. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation: CrippledOld Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    48
    According to the Mayans, this debate will become a mute point in 4 days!
    And yes, I am on my way to an ass kickin contest

  85. #85
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,760
    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    maybe rapid zombie killer squirrels then. let's take it up a notch
    You 1up'ed me. OK, rapid zombie killer squirrels with lasers. Sh1T just got real.
    15 Yeti ASR-c
    14 Yeti ARC
    16 Bianchi Specialissima
    15 Echo Big Deal
    15 Roubaix S-Works

  86. #86
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    You 1up'ed me. OK, rapid zombie killer squirrels with lasers. Sh1T just got real.
    apid zombie killer squirrels with lasers from space!

  87. #87
    Bicyclochondriac.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    13,452
    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    This kind of attitude is you're (USA's) biggest downfall. Do you realize, no, I mean do you FARKN realize there have been 90 school shootings (1996-2012) in the US? Do you realize because of your faked up rights that 231 children and teachers have lost their lives? Keep that mentality and that number of school shootings is going to rise and rise. A lot of people seem to value the right to bear arms more than their children, time to grow up, and this is coming from someone who works with a gun for a living. It's the non criminals who are the ones farking up, by not securing them. How the fark do children have access to guns?

    I just saw something disturbing on the news, guns sales in the US has gone up considerably since the shooting, lol, so now there are even more guns in circulation, in the hands of unresponsible owners.
    Seriously, I think you need to learn more about the nuances of the discussion going on in the US before you start going off on someone who basically agrees with you

    You are confusing "supporting people's right to own guns" with the NRA / gun industry agenda. While these overlap in some areas, there are NOT the same thing.

    You have let the NRA frame the discussion going on here for you, and are reacting to THEIR narrative.

    IMO, gun ownership rights are perfectly compatible with many sensible, reasonable gun regulation measures to reduce gun violence. The NRA always opposes such measures if there is any chance that it will result in fewer gun sales.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  88. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,152
    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Seriously, I think you need to learn more about the nuances of the discussion going on in the US before you start going off on someone who basically agrees with you

    You are confusing "supporting people's right to own guns" with the NRA / gun industry agenda. While these overlap in some areas, there are NOT the same thing.

    You have let the NRA frame the discussion going on here for you, and are reacting to THEIR narrative.

    IMO, gun ownership rights are perfectly compatible with many sensible, reasonable gun regulation measures to reduce gun violence. The NRA always opposes such measures if there is any chance that it will result in fewer gun sales.
    Oddly the NRA used to support gun laws in the old days including the ban on machine guns enacted during the first part of the 20th century.

    They actually remind of labor unions in someways - both are only focused on self preservation and no longer even care about members or the reality of the world around them. This horrible event does seem to have weakened the grip a bit. We have "NRA grade A" politicians now looking at gun control again.

  89. #89
    mtbr member
    Reputation: VERTIGO2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    47
    Every single one of you has missed the mark.

    Ban this, ban that. Utter foolishness.

    This tragedy and every other senseless act of violence is what happens when a nation turns it's back on God.

    Man's arrogance that he can fix all things is the very root of the problem. Only if/when every person finally comes the the understanding that they cannot do it alone, and surrender to God will things ever change. If you follow His rules and His commandments, no one gets hurt.

    Look it up. There is a cool collection of 66 books on the subject, all between one cover. It goes by a simple name- The Bible.

    Go ahead and tear me up. But this is one argument that you will lose- in the end. Just wait and see.

  90. #90
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    810
    It should be called a media festival, not a school yard shooting. The media just loves this sort of atrocity happening.

    By the way, 10 schoolgirls aged between 9-13 who were collecting firewood, were killed by a landmine or a roadside bomb in Afghanistan yesterday. They got a 10 second mention on the news.

    Also, a number of children were killed in Kurdistan yesterday in a bomb blast ... but these kids don't matter?

    How dare these other school kids who were murdered interrupt the real news.

    Warren.

  91. #91
    Bicyclochondriac.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    13,452
    Quote Originally Posted by VERTIGO2 View Post
    Every single one of you has missed the mark.

    Ban this, ban that. Utter foolishness.

    This tragedy and every other senseless act of violence is what happens when a nation turns it's back on God.

    Man's arrogance that he can fix all things is the very root of the problem. Only if/when every person finally comes the the understanding that they cannot do it alone, and surrender to God will things ever change. If you follow His rules and His commandments, no one gets hurt.

    Look it up. There is a cool collection of 66 books on the subject, all between one cover. It goes by a simple name- The Bible.

    Go ahead and tear me up. But this is one argument that you will lose- in the end. Just wait and see.
    How ironic that you identify "arrogance" as the problem in a post that pushes the arrogance meter far beyond anything posted so far
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  92. #92
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,371
    Thank Ronal Reagan and George Bush Jr. Reagan cut the hell out of mental health care and Bush ended the assault weapon's ban.
    agmtb

  93. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mfisher1971's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    444
    Quote Originally Posted by VERTIGO2 View Post
    This tragedy and every other senseless act of violence is what happens when a nation turns it's back on God.
    How, exactly, has our nation turned its back on "God"?

    Your God made the boy responsible for this tragedy, right? Made the mental illness he suffered from? That mental illness obviously made it impossible for him to rationalize right from wrong, good vs. evil, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by VERTIGO2 View Post
    Look it up. There is a cool collection of 66 books on the subject, all between one cover. It goes by a simple name- The Bible.

    Go ahead and tear me up. But this is one argument that you will lose- in the end. Just wait and see.
    ...except there have been several versions of that book throughout the ages. Translations, revisions, exceptions, redactions...

    There's no way to argue anything about religion. You can't win. You can't lose. If you believe it, it's true. Regardless of any evidence, or lack of evidence. There's absolutely no way of proving or disproving any of it. It's like arguing with someone about their favorite color.
    trust the tread

    '06 Cannondale Prophet 1000

  94. #94
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,760
    Quote Originally Posted by abegold View Post
    Thank Ronal Reagan and George Bush Jr. Reagan cut the hell out of mental health care and Bush ended the assault weapon's ban.
    Yes, now it is the Prez fault because the parents didn't get their son the help he needed.
    15 Yeti ASR-c
    14 Yeti ARC
    16 Bianchi Specialissima
    15 Echo Big Deal
    15 Roubaix S-Works

  95. #95
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,152
    Quote Originally Posted by Wild Wassa View Post
    It should be called a media festival, not a school yard shooting. The media just loves this sort of atrocity happening.

    By the way, 10 schoolgirls aged between 9-13 who were collecting firewood, were killed by a landmine or a roadside bomb in Afghanistan yesterday. They got a 10 second mention on the news.

    Also, a number of children were killed in Kurdistan yesterday in a bomb blast ... but these kids don't matter?

    How dare these other school kids who were murdered interrupt the real news.

    Warren.
    This are indeed sad and there are lots of other sad events happening daily around the world. But, there is something about an event that happens in your own backyard that is somehow more immediate.

  96. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,152
    Quote Originally Posted by VERTIGO2 View Post
    Every single one of you has missed the mark.

    Ban this, ban that. Utter foolishness.

    This tragedy and every other senseless act of violence is what happens when a nation turns it's back on God.

    Man's arrogance that he can fix all things is the very root of the problem. Only if/when every person finally comes the the understanding that they cannot do it alone, and surrender to God will things ever change. If you follow His rules and His commandments, no one gets hurt.

    Look it up. There is a cool collection of 66 books on the subject, all between one cover. It goes by a simple name- The Bible.

    Go ahead and tear me up. But this is one argument that you will lose- in the end. Just wait and see.
    Are Iran and Afghanistan pretty safe places? They really do defer to "god" in those places. Lots of other secular counties with lower crime then the U.S.

    Which god should govern us, the Pope's god or the Morman's god (that lives on another planet)? Which version of the bible, the original where Jesus was a punk rock trouble maker and married or the catholic version that turned his wife into a whore to belittle women and made the savor into a milk toast martyr? I bet many of the victims were god fearing, why did god take them?

  97. #97
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by VERTIGO2 View Post
    Every single one of you has missed the mark.

    Ban this, ban that. Utter foolishness.

    This tragedy and every other senseless act of violence is what happens when a nation turns it's back on God.

    Man's arrogance that he can fix all things is the very root of the problem. Only if/when every person finally comes the the understanding that they cannot do it alone, and surrender to God will things ever change. If you follow His rules and His commandments, no one gets hurt.

    Look it up. There is a cool collection of 66 books on the subject, all between one cover. It goes by a simple name- The Bible.

    Go ahead and tear me up. But this is one argument that you will lose- in the end. Just wait and see.
    it's so awesome that you actually ride a cannondale prophet.

    surprised it took this long for god to make an appearance here, i don't agree with your post one iota, but god bless

  98. #98
    mtbr member
    Reputation: F.N.G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,450
    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    but sadly, gun ownership and rights is just another form of religion. the believers won't listen to blasphemy denying their god, so ultimately, arguing about it is pointless despite the evidence (multiple school shootings) right in front of people.

    Merry "Christ"mas to you!!!

  99. #99
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mudhen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    185
    I am a gun owner, but have never really delved deeply into the gun control issue.

    I was taught in law school to apply the facts to the law, and see where that leads you.

    I really have no opinion on the regulation of non-sporting firearms, but the facts just don't support their regulation as an overly statistically meaningful method of protecting human life.

    9000+- total people die from gun shot wounds in an average year in the US.

    40,000 die from alcohol related organic medical problems (no innocent victims).

    Another 40,000 die from alcohol related auto accidents (many innocent victims)

    450,000 die from the use of tobacco products, and 50,000 of them are non-smokers.

    The tobacco industry is a $12 billion a year industry, yet ONE STATE, California, spends $9 billion to treat tobacco related illness....

    So, until stats like this change, I'm just not interested in any discussion about gun control....

    More deaths are caused each year by tobacco use than by all deaths from human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), illegal drug use, alcohol use, motor vehicle injuries, suicides, and murders combined.1,2

    Now, if a measure comes to a ballot vote, and the ballot bans:

    Smoking
    Drinking alcohol
    High School & College Sports - especially football
    Fast cars
    Bathtubs
    Stairs
    Assault Weapons
    Onions, Bell Peppers, and Mushroom (ok, this is not really a requirement)

    Then I might vote for it.......

    mudhen

    1.Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Smoking-Attributable Mortality, Years of Potential Life Lost, and Productivity Losses—United States, 2000–2004. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report 2008;57(45):1226–8 [accessed 2011 Mar 11].
    2.McGinnis J, Foege WH. Actual Causes of Death in the United States. Journal of American Medical Association 1993;270:2207–12 [cited 2011 Mar 11].
    "Lighten up Francis" Sgt. Hulka

  100. #100
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    543
    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Seriously, I think you need to learn more about the nuances of the discussion going on in the US before you start going off on someone who basically agrees with you

    You are confusing "supporting people's right to own guns" with the NRA / gun industry agenda. While these overlap in some areas, there are NOT the same thing.

    You have let the NRA frame the discussion going on here for you, and are reacting to THEIR narrative.

    IMO, gun ownership rights are perfectly compatible with many sensible, reasonable gun regulation measures to reduce gun violence. The NRA always opposes such measures if there is any chance that it will result in fewer gun sales.
    I'm all for gun ownership, BUT, and only but if the applicant has a genuine reason for the firearm. Be it for sport, pest control I'm all for it, just how we have it set out in Australia, it's the only way it can work. 40% of guns sales in the US don't require a background check. Criminals getting their hands on the same firepower as the military/law enforcement is a disaster. This kid that did the shootings knew what he was doing, he was even wearing a bullet proof vest, why the fark would his mother need a bullet proof vest?

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 1

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •