Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 201 to 250 of 417
  1. #201
    dru
    dru is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    2,443
    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    I read them all too

    BTW, the stretch is not as bad as it seems when you consider the population of the United states is almost 10x as much. Which means are rate per is not 64x higher.
    Doing the 10:1 math it meams your gun murder rate is roughly 6.4 times higher than ours, while our rape rate is 'only' double yours.

    Sad as rape is, the victims can heal hopefully.

    However, when you are shot dead, you are dead.

    No coming back, no chance for a life at all.

    Using a gun to resolve disputes only causes a vicious spiral that is very hard to trun around.

    For the most part people kill people because they have a beef with them. A gun makes that job a bit easier.
    occasional cyclist

  2. #202
    Rogue Exterminator
    Reputation: kjlued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,956
    I won't disagree that guns are often misused however, I also do not believe in banning them. Stricter laws and actually enforcing them, fine. But banning, hell no.

    And a rape victim never really heals.

  3. #203
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    54
    People are just pissed because they can't think of a fix. Banning guns is certainly not going to stop this or similar tragedies. Making more restrictive laws on purchasing guns will not either. They really only hurt the law abiding gun owners.

    Evil people are going to be evil. Weak people prey on the defenseless. And knee jerk reactions that take away our freedoms do not represent what America is about, Freedom.

  4. #204
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,148
    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    I won't disagree that guns are often misused however, I also do not believe in banning them. Stricter laws and actually enforcing them, fine. But banning, hell no.

    And a rape victim never really heals.
    Rapist should be the first shot!

  5. #205
    Rogue Exterminator
    Reputation: kjlued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,956
    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Rapist should be the first shot!
    I agree

  6. #206
    dru
    dru is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    2,443
    If you read back you'll see that I've a fair bit of experience with guns. They are not hard to get up here.

    In Canada:
    Handguns cannot be taken anywere excpet from the home to a range and you must have a permit. Almost no one owns them.
    Rifles and shotguns are easy to get, but you would be stopped by the cops if you were walking down the street with one. No crime, but the cops would ask you what exactly you were doing.
    Hunting is a differnt matter; completely accepted and normal behavior.

    In the States, the issue is two fold: hand guns, and a gun culture.

    Easy to get, carry and unfortunately, use.
    occasional cyclist

  7. #207
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    419
    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    What happens when a kid grabs a Bushmaster from some now fat and out of shape math teacher that hasn't considered working out since the army was forcing him to back in the 1970s? Why do we want to live like they do in the middle east, again?
    my thoughts exactly. My wife is a high school teacher. She's had boy students over the years that were well over 6 feet tall and 200 pounds. She is 5'2". If she had a gun on her and one of these boys wanted to westle it away from her- there is probably a very good chance that he'd be able to.

  8. #208
    Rogue Exterminator
    Reputation: kjlued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,956
    Hand guns are not legally as easy to get as one would think.
    However, unfortunately, and yes I do me unfortunately there are still too many out on the streets.

    I will also agree some law abiding citizens are too gun crazy.
    I have some friends that fit this category.
    Nobody really needs more than one or two guns in the house.
    However, I will defend every Americans right to own 1 or 100 if that is what they see fit.

    Again as I stated in an earlier post, I do not own a hand gun and have no intention of getting one. However, I believe in everyone's right to own one if that is what they feel they need to protect themselves. The day you can assign a personal security detail to every man woman and child out there is the day I will change my opinion on that.

  9. #209
    No Stranger to danger....
    Reputation: Tone's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    4,596
    Quote Originally Posted by mudhen View Post
    50,000 died from second hand smoke.

    Your reply 'mate'?

    I'd like to see every smoker prosecuted for murder at a 1/50,000 rate of penalty.

    Same for persons that consume alcohol, drive, and kill an innocent bystander.

    Execution would be my choice. By firearm would make me smile, but any method of taking their life would be a fine exchange for taking someone else's life.

    Any reply 'mate'?

    mudhen
    Yeah mate, i'll give you a reply when you re write this and get rid of the condescending garbage that makes you look like a tool...
    Cheers
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  10. #210
    RTM
    RTM is offline
    #1 Latex Salesman
    Reputation: RTM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,819
    Quote Originally Posted by dragbike View Post
    What OldJackpine said is the most sensible thing I've heard yet from a gun owner. I've talked to a few other hunters that seem to share these ideas. I am not a gun owner or a hunter, but I totally understand and respect the sport of hunting.

    I think there are hunters and then there are "gun-lovers". The gun-lovers may not even be hunters. I worked with a guy that had MANY firearms. He was not a hunter, but was convinced that there were all sorts of gov't conspiracies and that one day he would NEED those weapons. Is this a common mentality of gun-lovers? Why would anyone other than military and swat teams need automatic weapons? I just don't get it. They are desigend for the sole purpose of killing as many people as possible in a short amount of time. Just what the CT SOB did!! Do they honestly think that they WILL NEED them at some point? I also wonder if people that buy automatic weapons have some sort of obsession with death or like to feel powerful by owning such a weapon. I don't mean to offend anyone, I am just rying to figure out why a civilian would want or feel the need for an automatic weapon. I would never want an instrument of death like that in my home. Although I do totally support, say a handgun in the home for protection.

    And those that spout the 2nd amendment. Wasn't that wrtitten when muskets were being used where it took a minute or more to reload and had no sort of accuracy? Also, I believe it was written atleast partially so civilians could protect themselves from British forces . Did our forefathers envisionfuture school shootings by madmen? I doubt it.

    It is true that all the regulation in the world won't stop a madman from killing, but it might make it harder for them to succeed. It's easier to stop someone with a knife than it is to stop someone with an AK47.

    This whole tragedy has made me feel sick, like 9/11. I can tell you that I am looking at little kids differently now and really seeing the beauty that most of us are born with. my kids are only 8 & 10, and they still have that innocense of youth. I just don't understand why someone would want to destroy that.
    I think this was well said. And it is heartening to read the reasonable thoughts from some gun advocates.

    Seems to me, the "sport" of hunting would be far less sporting if you are firing an assault rifle.

    And to the guys who think gun bans only take away access from innocent civilians...well unfortunately it's the "innocent civilians" we need to be protected from the most.

    For anyone interested, I found a brilliant essay expressing the beauty and innocence of a young child called "what 6 looks like". I've got a 5 year old daughter and spend a lot of time with her school. This is as much pain as I can imagine. I don't know the answer but it can't be MORE anger, guns and violence.

  11. #211
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    I think this was well said. And it is heartening to read the reasonable thoughts from some gun advocates.

    Seems to me, the "sport" of hunting would be far less sporting if you are firing an assault rifle.

    And to the guys who think gun bans only take away access from innocent civilians...well unfortunately it's the "innocent civilians" we need to be protected from the most.

    For anyone interested, I found a brilliant essay expressing the beauty and innocence of a young child called "what 6 looks like". I've got a 5 year old daughter and spend a lot of time with her school. This is as much pain as I can imagine. I don't know the answer but it can't be MORE anger, guns and violence.

    The "sport" is not taken out of hunting by using an "assault riffle." Many don't even know what causes a riffle to be classified as an assault riffle, for all intents and purposes, it's having it equipt with cosmetics that make it look dangerous.



    both of those are semiautomatic riffles of the same caliber, but one is an "assault weapon" because of how it looks and one is not.

    And your right, innocent citizens are the ones that need to be defended the most... how is taking away their ability to defend themselves helping to defend them?

    Let's say you ban all guns... the criminals will still get them. (Did illegal drugs go away because they aren't allowed?) But lets say the guns are gone, then they will just find another way to carry out their psychotic plans, like this guy who went into a school and with a knife and cut up 22 kids http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/wo...ina.html?_r=2&

    The news loves to report the bad but never the good, here's a good example. The kid still had rounds in the magazine but stopped shooting people when a CCW permit holder put a gun on him.



    There were 2 instances THIS WEEK where CCW holders stopped shootings.

    There's even a school district in Texas that has teachers carrying conceled weapons.
    Stop school shootings by letting teachers fire back, say Texas officials | Fox News

  12. #212
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    154
    BTW, for those who haven't seen this.

    The history of gun control
    ****WARNING - GRAPHIC MATERIAL INSIDE****
    gun control The History of Gun Control - FULL LENGTH - YouTube
    ****WARNING - GRAPHIC MATERIAL INSIDE****

  13. #213
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    96
    The post that had the comparison of Canada to Chicago. Chicago has some of the most strict gun laws in the Nation as far as I know, with a full out handgun/ assault weapon ban that didnt get overturned til not too long ago. Still had/has some of the highest gun crime rates than anywhere. I would like to see the numbers on gun homicides to see how many were criminal on criminal, I bet it would be a pretty good percentage of them. The criminals already have the guns, and they aren't going to line up to get their stolen/ straw purchased weapons registered or turn them in if they did get banned. That is the main reason I wouldn't want to participate in a buy back program or voluntarily turn it in for a ban.

    I am a gun owner that is open to hearing about making it a little more complicated to get a gun, like making a training course be mandatory to be able to buy. I also think keeping your guns locked up would take care of a lot of the influx of new guns to the criminals, since i think quite a few of the guns come from robberies where they just find them laying around a house.

    Sorry if i am rambling in the post kind of tired while typing it up.

  14. #214
    mtbr member
    Reputation: veloborealis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,013

    My heart aches for the families in Newtown...

    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    this is one of the most retarded pro gun posts i've ever read. yeah, let's all arm ourselves 24/7. great idea.
    Agree with your sentiment, Gnar, but I'm checking out of this thread HERE. Can't abide another rant.
    The older I get the better I was...

  15. #215
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mountain Cycle Shawn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    11,899
    If guns were illegal, they would be just like drugs. The criminals will always be able to buy them, sell them and use them. You're stupid if you think that will ever change.

  16. #216
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Rubicon73's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by dragbike View Post
    What OldJackpine said is the most sensible thing I've heard yet from a gun owner. I've talked to a few other hunters that seem to share these ideas. I am not a gun owner or a hunter, but I totally understand and respect the sport of hunting.

    I think there are hunters and then there are "gun-lovers". The gun-lovers may not even be hunters. I worked with a guy that had MANY firearms. He was not a hunter, but was convinced that there were all sorts of gov't conspiracies and that one day he would NEED those weapons. Is this a common mentality of gun-lovers? Why would anyone other than military and swat teams need automatic weapons? I just don't get it. They are desigend for the sole purpose of killing as many people as possible in a short amount of time. Just what the CT SOB did!! Do they honestly think that they WILL NEED them at some point? I also wonder if people that buy automatic weapons have some sort of obsession with death or like to feel powerful by owning such a weapon. I don't mean to offend anyone, I am just rying to figure out why a civilian would want or feel the need for an automatic weapon. I would never want an instrument of death like that in my home. Although I do totally support, say a handgun in the home for protection.
    That is certainly not the mentality of the majority of gun owners. As far as the automatic weapons, people watch too mch MSNBC. The news shows pics of M-4 "Assault" rifle that have selectable fire (semi or 3 round burst.) These weapons would require a Class III ATF license, large tax and approval for the county sheriff for ownership.

    I truly believe the fault lies with the mother. She knowingly kept firearms in her house with a mentally disturbed child. Thats a no-go!

    I dont believe we need more restriction on what we can buy as I believe we need training (similar to CCW/ hunting licenses) and go from there. Education fixes ignorance...
    I ride faster than I should...

  17. #217
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    543
    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    It isn't a stretch at all, if somebody wants to kill, they will kill.
    We didn't blame the planes in the attacks on Sept 11th nor did we blame the fertilizer in the OK city bombing. So why do we blame the guns if somebody gets shot?
    The gun can not get up, aim itself, and fire a bullet. It takes a person to operate it.
    That same person if they could not get a gun would kill by some other means if they wanted to..
    Dude, you cannot be serious, you are comparing a gun to a plane?
    A gun, engineered and built from the ground up with one purpose in mind, it's a tool to kill/incapacitate people, nothing more nothing less.
    A Plane, a mode of transportation, used to taxi people around the world, designed and engineered from the ground up for transportation, it's not a defensive weapon.
    Comparing a gun to alcohol, tobacco, planes is the most ridiculous statement to come out of mtbr, unbelievable.

    The so called 2nd Amendment has been responsible for the loss of hundreds of school childrens lives, and to hear a lot of you guys supporting it is unfathomnable.
    Last edited by SV11; 12-19-2012 at 12:36 AM.

  18. #218
    mtbr member
    Reputation: shwinn8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,094
    I was asked today about my thoughts on firearms. Although I personally don't own one, I fully support the 2nd Amendment and the right to " protect an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home". ... My response was along the lines of: Guns don't kill people.. stupid, sick & sadistic [ enter swear word here] cowards kill people. The tool in which they make a conscious decision to use unfortunately happens to be a firearm. pretty sad... you don't punish the ratchet for turning the incorrect way, you blame the operator for not selecting the correct direction... take away one tool and the stupid, sick & sadistic cowards will make a conscious decision to find another tool
    '11 Jedi
    '01 Rocket 88 Stage3
    '00 Homegrown

  19. #219
    High Desert MTBer
    Reputation: rockerc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    4,850
    Coming back to this thread, and reading some of the idiotic posts here just indicates that there is little hope for sense to prevail in any debate involving guns in the US. I fail to understand the attraction of a gun; I fail to understand the depth of feeling engendered by the perceived 'threat' of being separated from ones' guns; I fail to understand how anyone can honestly see any worth in having so many guns in circulation in any country; I fail to understand anyone who thinks the US has any greater 'right' to freedom than any other country, many populations have fought for so-called 'freedom', usually at the behest of an acquisitive government; I fail to understand how blind acceptance of a set of religious 'values' can solve the problems of society, that has been proven to be a false assumption repeatedly throughout history; I fail to understand how anyone can spout statistics on crime rates to attempt to justify these most heinous of crimes, and what is patently a problem that seems confined to the US right now; I fail to understand how anyone with half a brain could fail to understand how misguided the notion of such free access to a plethora of devices whose sole purpose is to kill, maim, or in some way harm other living creatures really is...

    I guess there is a lot I do not get, and this surprises me since I consider myself a fairly intelligent and open-minded person.
    It's all Here. Now.

  20. #220
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    3,739
    What an awesome thread.

    Fits in this section as well as the "what headset should I use ?" threads in the 29er section. No, this one is much more ridiculous.

  21. #221
    Bicyclochondriac.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    13,378
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    If guns were illegal, they would be just like drugs. The criminals will always be able to buy them, .
    You are right. The gun industry / NRA has made sure of that.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  22. #222
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,148
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan The VW Tech View Post
    The "sport" is not taken out of hunting by using an "assault riffle." Many don't even know what causes a riffle to be classified as an assault riffle, for all intents and purposes, it's having it equipt with cosmetics that make it look dangerous.

    Only poor marksmen hunt with assault riffles. The .223 isn't really a humane round for bigger animals like deer. All the hunters I know use 30-06 now - formerly they used 30-30.


    Why is it nobody ever uses the M1 (or other nicer looking guns) to shoot up a school? What is it about these ugly plastic weapons that make people want to mass murder? Is it the small rounds? Too much kick in the 30-06 for the average social misfit or fat militia member?

    I feel like the conservative record is broken and they need a new song book. All we ever hear is that the solution to a problem is more of the problem ... their solution to gun problems is always arming more people and more guns, tax cuts not working then we need more tax cuts, dependent on oil then drill for more. I could go on.

    Sooner or later, we'll get a lot more gun control - mark my words, not enough rural people left. Maybe not this time, but eventually they'll be something bad enough to cause action. You can either stonewall and pullout the same tired arguments or help craft the solution that still allows you have many guns ... you might need to switch to prettier looking weapons however.

  23. #223
    mtbr member
    Reputation: applehead110's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    261
    Maybe we should invest in more in our mental health services, there is a possible solution since most people who are violent are usually products of their environment.

  24. #224
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    11,790
    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Rapist should be the first shot!
    So clearly you failed the gun ownership test....right.

    Everyone is entiltled to due process.
    Last edited by jeffscott; 12-19-2012 at 09:34 AM.

  25. #225
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,148
    Quote Originally Posted by applehead110 View Post
    Maybe we should invest in more in our mental health services, there is a possible solution since most people who are violent are usually products of their environment.
    The same people against any and all gun control would never fund such a leftist idea.

  26. #226
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nuffink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    768
    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Why is it nobody ever uses the M1 (or other nicer looking guns) to shoot up a school? What is it about these ugly plastic weapons that make people want to mass murder? Is it the small rounds? Too much kick in the 30-06 for the average social misfit or fat militia member?

    I feel like the conservative record is broken and they need a new song book. All we ever hear is that the solution to a problem is more of the problem ... their solution to gun problems is always arming more people and more guns, tax cuts not working then we need more tax cuts, dependent on oil then drill for more. I could go on.

    Sooner or later, we'll get a lot more gun control - mark my words, not enough rural people left. Maybe not this time, but eventually they'll be something bad enough to cause action. You can either stonewall and pullout the same tired arguments or help craft the solution that still allows you have many guns ... you might need to switch to prettier looking weapons however.
    We're all shielded from the reality of gun murder. The cowboys on this forum know how it works, they've seen it in films. You pull the trigger, the bad guys die. A nice, clean quick death. They wish they'd been there with their own guns. They'd have stopped the bad guy, they're John Wayne. In their heads they wouldn't be a victim, they'd be a hero. Hell, even if by some accident the bad guy shot them, they'd probably respawn and get another go. In this fantasy world more guns is the answer.

    Meanwhile, back in reality, they don't even have to look at the scene of crime photographs. In fact they're not allowed to. Nobody outside the law enforcement agencies are ever going to see them. It would be too distressing.

    Those children's little bodies were ripped apart. Those that didn't die instantly died screaming.

    Still, we live in the age of the internet. It won't be long before some monster streams his atrocity live. Then something might be done. Possibly. Until then nothing. Business as usual.

    Guns don't kill people, looking away does. Denial does. Public decency does.

  27. #227
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    154
    So by your logic it's better to be a sitting duck waiting for a the police to arrive than be given a chance to try to and defend yourself? It's always funny to hear that argument from the anti-gun side, that everyone is walking around with a gun looking for trouble.

    I have firearms and a couple concealed carry permits. I have no interest in being a "hero" or getting into any type of shoot out. People who have CCW's typically tend to be more aware of their surroundings and end up in less altercations than a typical person walking down the street text messaging away on their cell phone. When I was took the concealed carry class the teacher (Swat Team leader and Sheriff for Cook County/Chicago) made it very clear that it doesn't matter if it's completely justified, if you pull your weapon and fire it at the very least it's going to cost you a crap load of money in court fees. The more common perspective for CCW permit holders is that you don't shoot unless your positive you can convince a jury it was justified of your going to jail, it's not let's go find bad guys and start putting them down. Me personally, if I'm walking down the street and you on the other side of the road getting jumped and robbed, I'm gonna turn around and just walk the other way while calling the police for you. Your not my problem, the only thing I would be willing to defend with deadly force are the things I'd be willing to die trying to protect... myself and my wife.

  28. #228
    RTM
    RTM is offline
    #1 Latex Salesman
    Reputation: RTM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,819
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan The VW Tech View Post
    And your right, innocent citizens are the ones that need to be defended the most... how is taking away their ability to defend themselves helping to defend them?

    Let's say you ban all guns... the criminals will still get them
    My point was it is not as easy as Innocents vs. Criminals. The killer's mother owned these weapons. The killer had no record. In this case she was a complete idiot, beyond comprehension, but by all accounts an otherwise normal every-day person. Somewhere an innocent civilian, perhaps a parent, is buying weapons that will some day be used for evil they never could have imagined. We are making it too easy for an innocent civilian to enable or turn into tomorrow's monster. We can not afford or tolerate this kind of retrospect any longer. I know a gun ban will not eliminate all crime, criminals or violence. It wouldn't save every innocent child. All I'm hoping is to make it extremely difficult for the next monster to stumble across a weapon designed to do this much damage.

    It is interesting you raise the comparison to drugs. As a whole, our society accepts that certain drugs are extremely detrimental and dangerous and have no place in a successful and peaceful society. Others are less damaging and lighter restrictions and penalties are appropriate. I think most of us, especially parents, would be happy if they did not exist and at the same time accept a lesser punishment and restrictions for recreational drugs than the harder ones. We can not eliminate drugs, but tolerating ALL of them as if they are equal is ridiculous. Is there no room for a similar sliding scale when talking about fire arms?

  29. #229
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    11,790
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan The VW Tech View Post
    Your not my problem, the only thing I would be willing to defend with deadly force are the things I'd be willing to die trying to protect... myself and my wife.
    So you would not be willing to protect your kids and their friends with deadly force????

    Kinda the point of this thread.

  30. #230
    2006 Yeti AS-X
    Reputation: Lawson Raider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,910
    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Dude, you cannot be serious, you are comparing a gun to a plane?
    A gun, engineered and built from the ground up with one purpose in mind, it's a tool to kill/incapacitate people, nothing more nothing less.
    A Plane, a mode of transportation, used to taxi people around the world, designed and engineered from the ground up for transportation, it's not a defensive weapon.
    Comparing a gun to alcohol, tobacco, planes is the most ridiculous statement to come out of mtbr, unbelievable.

    The so called 2nd Amendment has been responsible for the loss of hundreds of school childrens lives, and to hear a lot of you guys supporting it is unfathomnable.
    The 2nd amendment is the reason you are not speaking Japanese today.
    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  31. #231
    RTM
    RTM is offline
    #1 Latex Salesman
    Reputation: RTM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,819
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan The VW Tech
    the only thing I would be willing to defend with deadly force are the things I'd be willing to die trying to protect... myself and my wife.
    says a lot about your love for Country, family, friends and your capacity to love or sacrifice for anything outside your own small world. can you imagine if our teachers, police, firefighters, soldiers, hell, any normal person with a conscience, felt this way? That is a seriously pathetic, lonely, hollow and pointless life there Ryan. I pity you.

    lets all pray Ryan the selfish coward is never the one in the school with an opportunity to save our children or loved ones. guess we'd have to just hope he has his cell phone with him so he can call in a real human being to try to do something honorable.

  32. #232
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    11,790
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    The 2nd amendment is the reason you are not speaking Japanese today.
    On what possible basis can you believe that?

    Far as I know they pass out rifles to the Marines before the go ashore and for free from the governement.

  33. #233
    2006 Yeti AS-X
    Reputation: Lawson Raider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,910
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    says a lot about your love for Country, family, friends and your capacity to love or sacrifice for anything outside your own small world. can you imagine if our teachers, police, firefighters, soldiers, hell, any normal person with a conscience, felt this way? That is a seriously pathetic, lonely, hollow and pointless life there Ryan. I pity you.

    lets all pray Ryan the selfish coward is never the one in the school with an opportunity to save our children or loved ones. guess we'd have to just hope he has his cell phone with him so he can call in a real human being to try to do something honorable.
    I would do my best as a CCW holder to defend all innocent lives. If I saw a stranger being held up at gunpoint across the street, you darn right I would point my gun at the robber and tell him to hit the floor and put him under citizens arrest until the police showed up. If the robber attempted to point the gun at me, he would be raising daisies.

    Would I go to jail? Possibly, depending on where I was at but you know what, sometimes the right thing isn't the easiest thing to do. Our founding fathers literally risked their necks to create this nation - had they lost they would have been hanged as traitors...they took a very deadly risk in the Revolution.
    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  34. #234
    2006 Yeti AS-X
    Reputation: Lawson Raider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,910
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott View Post
    On what possible basis can you believe that?

    Far as I know they pass out rifles to the Marines before the go ashore and for free from the governement.
    "Japan would never invade the United States. We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto
    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  35. #235
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    11,790
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    If the robber attempted to point the gun at me, he would be raising daisies.
    Yeah you just hope so, you more than likely would miss and so would the robber. Hopefully neither one of you killed some innocent bystanders in the meantime.

  36. #236
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nuffink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    768
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    The 2nd amendment is the reason you are not speaking Japanese today.
    Yeah SV11, it was crackers running around Alabama with handguns that stopped the Japanese from invading Australia.

  37. #237
    RTM
    RTM is offline
    #1 Latex Salesman
    Reputation: RTM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,819
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    I would do my best as a CCW holder to defend all innocent lives. If I saw a stranger being held up at gunpoint across the street, you darn right I would point my gun at the robber and tell him to hit the floor and put him under citizens arrest until the police showed up. If the robber attempted to point the gun at me, he would be raising daisies.

    Would I go to jail? Possibly, depending on where I was at but you know what, sometimes the right thing isn't the easiest thing to do. Our founding fathers literally risked their necks to create this nation - had they lost they would have been hanged as traitors...they took a very deadly risk in the Revolution.
    we are very clearly on complete opposite sides of the gun argument, and I respect that. Part of the reason is, I do believe most people are longing for a way to protect the innocent and make the world safer. Removing guns or adding them, whatever you believe at least we agree on that. I'm hoping both camps can also agree that people like Ryan have no place in this discussion.

  38. #238
    Bicyclochondriac.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    13,378
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    The 2nd amendment is the reason you are not speaking Japanese today.
    That one never ceases to crack me up.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  39. #239
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    My point was it is not as easy as Innocents vs. Criminals. The killer's mother owned these weapons. The killer had no record. In this case she was a complete idiot, beyond comprehension, but by all accounts an otherwise normal every-day person. Somewhere an innocent civilian, perhaps a parent, is buying weapons that will some day be used for evil they never could have imagined. We are making it too easy for an innocent civilian to enable or turn into tomorrow's monster. We can not afford or tolerate this kind of retrospect any longer. I know a gun ban will not eliminate all crime, criminals or violence. It wouldn't save every innocent child. All I'm hoping is to make it extremely difficult for the next monster to stumble across a weapon designed to do this much damage.

    It is interesting you raise the comparison to drugs. As a whole, our society accepts that certain drugs are extremely detrimental and dangerous and have no place in a successful and peaceful society. Others are less damaging and lighter restrictions and penalties are appropriate. I think most of us, especially parents, would be happy if they did not exist and at the same time accept a lesser punishment and restrictions for recreational drugs than the harder ones. We can not eliminate drugs, but tolerating ALL of them as if they are equal is ridiculous. Is there no room for a similar sliding scale when talking about fire arms?
    On the first part I agree with you. When I lived in Illinois you had to have a FOID card, you had to pass a background check, and your records were gone through for any mental illness diagnosis. In theory it wasn't a bad idea, but in reality it was a horrible system. Looking into the FOID Audit, things like courts not reporting mental illness like they should was a pretty big problem. Another problem with the FOID system was anti gun activists were always lobbying to get the names and addresses made public of everyone who had them.... you know, so criminals could get a shopping list of houses to hit where they know they can find guns not linked to them.

    I'm in favor of a licensing system similar to the Concealed Carry requirements. Mandatory class that covers safe loading and unloading, laws, an FBI background check, supplying finger print cards to the FBI and State Police, ect. I think they should make a mandatory to take a handgun and riffle course before buying (I took those of my own free will because I felt like it was a good idea).



    With the second part I'm not sure what your trying to get at? There is a sliding scale, fully automatic and 3 round burst weapons for example are something you will not get a hands on as a citizen



    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott View Post
    So you would not be willing to protect your kids and their friends with deadly force????

    Kinda the point of this thread.
    When I have kids, yes I would, but I don't. And my point is my love ones are the ones I'm willing to protect, strangers are not. If I was present at a mass shooting I would get my family out as quickly and safely as possible, that would be my number 1 priority. I would not try to find who was shooting, I wouldn't get involved unless I was in the room with the shooter and there was an immediate direct threat to me or my family. My point is it's ridiculous to think everyone carrying a gun feels like their a bad ass John Wayne who is going to save the world.

  40. #240
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    11,790
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    "Japan would never invade the United States. We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto
    That's a good one....

  41. #241
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    says a lot about your love for Country, family, friends and your capacity to love or sacrifice for anything outside your own small world. can you imagine if our teachers, police, firefighters, soldiers, hell, any normal person with a conscience, felt this way? That is a seriously pathetic, lonely, hollow and pointless life there Ryan. I pity you.

    lets all pray Ryan the selfish coward is never the one in the school with an opportunity to save our children or loved ones. guess we'd have to just hope he has his cell phone with him so he can call in a real human being to try to do something honorable.
    I'm not a teacher, cop, firefighter, or solider so that problem is solved. You have every right to carry your own concealed weapon and defend yourself if you see fit. I'm not going to take it upon myself to defend you because you choose not to do it for yourself.

  42. #242
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nuffink's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    768
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott View Post
    That's a good one....
    C'mon Jeff, If you can't believe the word of a Japanese war criminal as the gospel truth, what can you believe.

  43. #243
    Bicyclochondriac.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    13,378
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    "Japan would never invade the United States. We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto
    Lawson, the reason we don't speak Japanese is because we defeated them militarily in the Pacific.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  44. #244
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    lets all pray Ryan the selfish coward is never the one in the school with an opportunity to save our children or loved ones. guess we'd have to just hope he has his cell phone with him so he can call in a real human being to try to do something honorable.
    You mean it would be like exactly what happens at a school now? No one has a gun because schools are gun free zones... except for you know, the guy shooting up the place.

    What I would want to happen is teachers who are willing to put their lives on the line get trained and armed and have the ability to defend. Whats a bigger deterrent, a sign that says warning gun free school zone, or a sign that says warning, staff is armed and highly trained?

  45. #245
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Ze_Zaskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    854
    I guess most of the intervenients here are from within the USA.
    So here is an opinion from outside, actually from Portugal, Europe.

    Here we have very restrict gun/weapon laws. Self defense handgun licenses are practically non existent/impossible to get and even regular hunting rifles and shotguns require a license thats very expensive, takes a very long time to get and its quite hard to have. Even a small, non locking folder knife can get you into trouble. So basically, the general population has almost no access to weapons.

    Guess what? Robberies are still made at gunpoint, as well as carjacking, or even a traffic argument gone wrong with the wrong guy. People who want to do bad things gat wepons anyway, with the difference that they use untraceable, unregistered iligal weapons.

    I am currently in the process of getting a big game hunting rifle/shotgun license. It will take me almost an year, €300 (+-$390), exams and mandatory classes at the local police to get the license, Then I have to buy another license to actually buy the gun. And then I can't even carry it unless going to an hunting activity or a shooting range, both situations hard to prove.

    If I wanted to go the iligal way (most probably to do iligal stuff) I'd just need to go to some bad neighbourhood and get a €100 gun in the very same day.

    It's quite unpleasant to have a government that simply doesn't trust you.

    From my view, the problem is not with guns, but with people. Living in a anti-gun region, they are still here, only in the wrong hands.
    Switzerland or some scandinavian countries have more open gun laws, and yet you don't see any relevant violence problems.

    Getting a gun shouldn't be a trip to the grocery store, but shouldn't be impossible either if you are a rightfull citizen. Background control, who gets what, education and trainning are essential. And more important, a well structured society in terms of education and values.

  46. #246
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    54
    The quote was his response as to why he did not invade the continental U.S. While the point was exaggerated, the principle holds true that the armed populace was obviously a deterrent.

  47. #247
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,148
    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Lawson, the reason we don't speak Japanese is because we defeated them militarily in the Pacific.
    Those new fangled A-Bombs didn't hurt either.

  48. #248
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    543
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    "Japan would never invade the United States. We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto
    I expect that kind of stuff from a 10 yr old.
    What you're talking would of made sense 50 yrs ago and beyond, where wars were won on manpower. In todays society it's automated electronic warfare, lets not forget nuclear weapons, chemical/biological weapons. Time to let go of the 1900s.

  49. #249
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,148
    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    I expect that kind of stuff from a 10 yr old.
    What you're talking would of made sense 50 yrs ago and beyond, where wars were won on manpower. In todays society it's automated electronic warfare, lets not forget nuclear weapons, chemical/biological weapons. Time to let go of the 1900s.
    Remember, the US has a very poor education system.

  50. #250
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by shagster View Post
    The quote was his response as to why he did not invade the continental U.S. While the point was exaggerated, the principle holds true that the armed populace was obviously a deterrent.
    along with the miles of open water between countries

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •