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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by applehead110 View Post
    As a teacher in a school there are too many other variables to contend with for me to carry a weapon. There are days here where there are student riots, all I need on my head is being bumrushed and my weapon stolen used in the fighting and riot. My sole pupose as an educator is to do that educate in a safe environment and keep my students safe. What happened this past week was indeed tragic, but sometimes even with all the safety precautions in place the inevitable can still happen. The answer is not to give teachers guns or have armed security guards. Events such as this are a rarity. We as a people need to be more proactive and not reactive. Statements that I am hearing in general are of the reactive type and not the answer, but a "band aid" solution.

    Concealed weapons are concealed, I didn't say openly carry for all to know where a gun is not did I say make sure all staff has one. Obviously you wouldn't be comfortable with the responsibility of a weapon so you would not be issued one.

  2. #302
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    Again it is reactive. There are more proactive ways to handle issues that arise. Even if the weapon is concealed students will be aware you a re carrying one and who's to say that that one particular student has nothing to lose and goes for it and succeeds now more lives are in danger still, and again there will be a reaction (reactive not proactive) and another "band aid solution" people need to start thinking outside the bubble and looking for more proactive ways to address situations.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    He didn't say to ban handguns as that would also be reactive.
    Another one of the many things I do not understand is this talk of being 'proactive' and 'reactive'?!? The sh*t has already repeatedly hit the fan, so all we can do to try and prevent this happening again is to react and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
    Answers on a postcard please, but mine, as I have said before, would look like banning all guns without an extremely good reason and extensive and effective checks, allied with a radical overhaul of mental health diagnosis, treatment, and education. There are a few other things that I could add to the list, but that's a start. If that is reactive, at least it might help limit the likelihood of more similar tragedies like this one happening, turning teachers into armed militia is most assuredly NOT the answer!
    It's all Here. Now.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    The NRA isn't like a drug cartel. Our government is the one who, literally, puts illegal guns in the hands of people south of the border, who use them to kill Americans. The NRA only promotes the safe and legal use of guns. And quit frankly, with things going they way they are, I'm going to buy a couple more and load up on ammo.
    They also support the fact that 40 percent of all gun purchasers don't get a background check and they fight anyone that tries to change the law. Your statement was correct about the NRA 40 years ago - it was taken over by extremist.

    Even Ronald Reagan supported the assault weapons ban!

  5. #305
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    There is, of course, another reason that it might not be such a good idea to arm teachers...

    You may not have heard of Mark Kram or Ernest Hammett but, once the NRA get their rebuttal machine into gear, you could normally have been expected to. These two shot and ran over spree killer Carl Brown after Brown had gone on the rampage in a Miami machine shop. They didn't stop the carnage, 11 people were shot and 8 died but, arguably, Carl Brown may have well have gone on to murder more. The two should be poster boys for the NRA given the vanishingly small number of times armed citizens have successfully intervened in mass murder.

    Unfortunately for the NRA, Carl Brown was a teacher.

  6. #306
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    So much hate in this thread! We can hate the guns and hate the NRA all we want. We can even ban both to oblivion but it will not bring those kids back, nor will it prevent a similar tragedy from happening again. Take all that hate and turn it into a constructive solution. If I could think of one, I would but I am certainly not going to cry for change, just for the sake of change.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuffink View Post
    There is, of course, another reason that it might not be such a good idea to arm teachers...

    You may not have heard of Mark Kram or Ernest Hammett but, once the NRA get their rebuttal machine into gear, you could normally have been expected to. These two shot and ran over spree killer Carl Brown after Brown had gone on the rampage in a Miami machine shop. They didn't stop the carnage, 11 people were shot and 8 died but, arguably, Carl Brown may have well have gone on to murder more. The two should be poster boys for the NRA given the vanishingly small number of times armed citizens have successfully intervened in mass murder.

    Unfortunately for the NRA, Carl Brown was a teacher.
    Just because the mainstream media doesn't report on armed citizens stopping criminals, does not mean it does not happen. How much did you hear about the concealed carry citizen confronting the Oregon mall shooter on CNN?

  8. #308
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    Like it or not things are and will change as they should. It's just a matter of time, trail and error, and how much we are willing to endure before we realize we must.
    I propose 2 ideas
    - Gun owners should have to pass an IQ test, a judgement, and a reaction time test. As well as have to get some training, or at least pass a test proving they're capable of having, handling and shooting one.
    - Guns should have to be insured.
    Round and round we go

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by shagster View Post
    Just because the mainstream media doesn't report on armed citizens stopping criminals, does not mean it does not happen. How much did you hear about the concealed carry citizen confronting the Oregon mall shooter on CNN?
    The media, mainstream or not, barely reports on gun atrocities at all. Unless a load of kids die they're far too common to be news. Short of about half a dozen dead they'll probably make the local press. Page 7, below the fold.

  10. #310
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    I've got it!

    Let's ban schools and malls.
    rOCktoberfest 2015 pt I here
    rOCktoberfest 2015 pt II here

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuffink View Post
    The media, mainstream or not, barely reports on gun atrocities at all. Unless a load of kids die they're far too common to be news. Short of about half a dozen dead they'll probably make the local press. Page 7, below the fold.
    Fox has reported on many shootings this week. And that doesn't negate the fact that the Oregon mall shooting was being heavily reported on but not completely (excluded the concealed carry citizen).

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by shagster View Post
    Fox has reported on many shootings this week.
    That help?

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by shagster View Post
    So much hate in this thread! We can hate the guns and hate the NRA all we want. We can even ban both to oblivion but it will not bring those kids back, nor will it prevent a similar tragedy from happening again. Take all that hate and turn it into a constructive solution. If I could think of one, I would but I am certainly not going to cry for change, just for the sake of change.
    x2 well said.

  14. #314
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    52 percent now support more gun control: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...ons/?hpt=hp_t2

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Yeah, because a CNN poll accurately captures the American population....

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by shagster View Post
    Yeah, because a CNN poll accurately captures the American population....
    Was the methodology bad? Maybe it was wrong, maybe not. I think Mittens can still win Ohio Mr. Rove, really ...

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Was the methodology bad? Maybe it was wrong, maybe not. I think Mittens can still win Ohio Mr. Rove, really ...
    You're so silly.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by shagster View Post
    Just because the mainstream media doesn't report on armed citizens stopping criminals, does not mean it does not happen. How much did you hear about the concealed carry citizen confronting the Oregon mall shooter on CNN?
    Uh, none. Did it happen? I live in Portland and it has been on the news repeatedly but no one has reported anyone confronting the shooter.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by applehead110 View Post
    Again it is reactive. There are more proactive ways to handle issues that arise. Even if the weapon is concealed students will be aware you a re carrying one and who's to say that that one particular student has nothing to lose and goes for it and succeeds now more lives are in danger still, and again there will be a reaction (reactive not proactive) and another "band aid solution" people need to start thinking outside the bubble and looking for more proactive ways to address situations.
    That's a good point, I didn't realize students have metal detector wands to check each teacher to see which staff members were armed. When your walking down the street you can pin point who is carrying a concealed weapon?

    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Another one of the many things I do not understand is this talk of being 'proactive' and 'reactive'?!? The sh*t has already repeatedly hit the fan, so all we can do to try and prevent this happening again is to react and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
    Answers on a postcard please, but mine, as I have said before, would look like banning all guns without an extremely good reason and extensive and effective checks, allied with a radical overhaul of mental health diagnosis, treatment, and education. There are a few other things that I could add to the list, but that's a start. If that is reactive, at least it might help limit the likelihood of more similar tragedies like this one happening, turning teachers into armed militia is most assuredly NOT the answer!
    Your the first person I've heard mention turning teachers into a malitia, but teachers carrying concealed weapons is already in place in some places.

    Teachers can carry concealed weapons in tiny Texas town | Fox News

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poe4soul View Post
    Uh, none. Did it happen? I live in Portland and it has been on the news repeatedly but no one has reported anyone confronting the shooter.
    Exactly.
    Concealed Carry Holder Confronts Oregon Mall Shooter, Goes Unreported In Anti-Gun Mainstream Media - YouTube
    Man with Concealed Carry Gun May Have Stopped Oregon Shooter

  21. #321
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    Students do not need metal detectors to know if a teacher is carrying a weapon when it is a public fact. Again come join me the water is great in schools. Violence will only bring more violence so teachers carry weapons then students will surely follow as we educators lead by modeling certain behaviors. I teach my students to think responsibly as well as critically, but responsible thinking comes before critical thinkng.

  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by applehead110 View Post
    Students do not need metal detectors to know if a teacher is carrying a weapon when it is a public fact. Again come join me the water is great in schools. Violence will only bring more violence so teachers carry weapons then students will surely follow as we educators lead by modeling certain behaviors. I teach my students to think responsibly as well as critically, but responsible thinking comes before critical thinkng.
    I don't think anyone was saying it would be a public fact. The way I read the comments were in support of allowing teachers or school staff to legally carry a licensed concealed weapon at school. Not that they HAVE to. So that means no one would, or should know which school staff members are carrying a weapon.

  23. #323
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    Good point, but to insure the safety and welfare of the students it would need to be public knowledge.

  24. #324
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    Did you read the link or are you just making things up as you go?

    "Harrold's school board voted unanimously in 2007 to allow employees to carry weapons. After obtaining a state concealed-weapons permit, each employee who wants to carry a weapon must be approved by the board based on his or her personality and reaction to a crisis, Thweatt said.
    Employees also must undergo training in crisis intervention and hostage situations. And they must use bullets that minimize the risk of ricochet, similar to those carried by air marshals on planes.
    CaRae Reinisch, who lives in the nearby community of Elliott, said she took her children out of a larger school and enrolled them in Harrold two years ago, partly because she felt they would be safer in a building with armed teachers.

    "I think it's a great idea for trained teachers to carry weapons," Reinish said. "But I hate that it has come to this."

    The superintendent won't disclose how many of the school's 50 employees carry weapons, saying that revealing that number might jeopardize school security."

    The public knows there are armed teachers at the school, in reality there may only be 1 armed person there at the school, hell there might not be any guns at the school... but someone trying to shoot the place up knows they are going to find out.

  25. #325
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    I"m not trying to pick an argument just merely stating my opinion.

  26. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan The VW Tech View Post
    That's a good point, I didn't realize students have metal detector wands to check each teacher to see which staff members were armed. When your walking down the street you can pin point who is carrying a concealed weapon?



    Your the first person I've heard mention turning teachers into a malitia, but teachers carrying concealed weapons is already in place in some places.

    Teachers can carry concealed weapons in tiny Texas town | Fox News
    On the plus side, the percent of students who go on to join the NRA is much greater than those who go to college - which will further boast NRA membership. We teach guns while India and China just crank out engineers and we wonder why silicon valley needs more worker visas! I think this thread should be merged with the Walmart thread as all red state kids will be working at one soon.

  27. #327
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    So gun owners are uneducated and don't go to college? You say it as if being and the NRA and attending college are somehow related.

    Good job showing your ignorance.

  28. #328
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    And yet another supporting scenario account for the ban of the large capacity clips requiring a shooter to reload every 10 or so rounds. And btw, he's trained, a security guard wanting to be in law enforcement, not just a routine citizen like a teacher.

  29. #329
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    Well it's sad and pretty obvious that aside from Tone's and maybe a few others, that most just want to stand on their soapbox and try and prove one side of this argument. Tone's being the voice of reason should be proof enough of that, LOL Just jokin Tone's, you know I love your input around here and agree with you 100% on this one.
    I say this because in my previous post I put out 2 ideas that weren't even touched on.
    Last edited by theMeat; 12-20-2012 at 02:11 PM.
    Round and round we go

  30. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan The VW Tech View Post
    So gun owners are uneducated and don't go to college? You say it as if being and the NRA and attending college are somehow related.

    Good job showing your ignorance.
    I'm not saying that ... but I'm willing to bet that most gun nuts have a low educational attainment.

    Also, typically schools in small rural towns such as the one in the news article don't exactly pump out college material. The NRA has used fear tactics that pray on uneducated and unsophisticated people to stonewall against any and all gun control (including background checks for 40 percent of all purchases). Poor education combined with a culture of violence and guns will only lead to more gun nuts, which may become NRA zeolites.

    Full disclosure: I have a masters degree and I own about 10 sensible guns. Of course they're all resting comfortably in my attic as I choose a safe neighborhood as my first line of defense. Lastly, if I ever go hunting I'd be as ashamed to need a 30 round clip as a 30 speed drivetrain on my bike.

  31. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I'd be as ashamed to need a 30 round clip as a 30 speed drivetrain on my bike.



    I'd be ashamed to continue refering to a magazine as a "clip". Your noobness in weaponry is self evident. Please educate yourself before reffering to others lack of, Hypocrite.

  32. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I'm not saying that ... but I'm willing to bet that most gun nuts have a low educational attainment.

    Also, typically schools in small rural towns such as the one in the news article don't exactly pump out college material. The NRA has used fear tactics that pray on uneducated and unsophisticated people to stonewall against any and all gun control (including background checks for 40 percent of all purchases). Poor education combined with a culture of violence and guns will only lead to more gun nuts, which may become NRA zeolites.

    Full disclosure: I have a masters degree and I own about 10 sensible guns. Of course they're all resting comfortably in my attic as I choose a safe neighborhood as my first line of defense. Lastly, if I ever go hunting I'd be as ashamed to need a 30 round clip as a 30 speed drivetrain on my bike.
    Good troll but not a good way to win an argument. Besides, it seems to be an opinion without a source. I'm sure you have one since you have masters degree...

    On aside, I can understand how a school in a rural community needs to have a plan for a quick response to a gun threat like this. After all, each of these communities have volunteer fire fighters and emt's. But then I lived in a rural community where they had arson fires and it turned out to be a volunteer fireman with a hero complex.

  33. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I'm not saying that ... but I'm willing to bet that most gun nuts have a low educational attainment.

    Also, typically schools in small rural towns such as the one in the news article don't exactly pump out college material. The NRA has used fear tactics that pray on uneducated and unsophisticated people to stonewall against any and all gun control (including background checks for 40 percent of all purchases). Poor education combined with a culture of violence and guns will only lead to more gun nuts, which may become NRA zeolites.

    Full disclosure: I have a masters degree and I own about 10 sensible guns. Of course they're all resting comfortably in my attic as I choose a safe neighborhood as my first line of defense. Lastly, if I ever go hunting I'd be as ashamed to need a 30 round clip as a 30 speed drivetrain on my bike.
    I'm just curious, is there any aspect of anyone's life that your not superior? You belittle where people live, their euducation level, and even where they shop/work, and all this in one paragraph! Someday I want to be you... No one said, EVER
    And yes, I am on my way to an ass kickin contest

  34. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadie scum View Post
    I'd be ashamed to continue refering to a magazine as a "clip". Your noobness in weaponry is self evident. Please educate yourself before reffering to others lack of, Hypocrite.
    Sorry, I don't have semi auto weapons or gears ... only bolt and lever action. How am I hypocritical?

  35. #335
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    Your trying to make 2 unrelated opinions of your somehow play on each other. I agree that small rural towns put less people college but that has nothing to do with guns or the NRA.

    From the sounds of it you are the type of gun owner who enables these massacres to happen. You rest them comfortably up in the attic and think nothing will ever happen because your in a safe area. People at that school thought it would never happen because they were in a safe area as well. Everyone is criticizing the mother for having guns the son could get to, and you throw them in the attic because it's a good neighborhood.

    I store them in a safe and hope nothing will ever happen.

  36. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan The VW Tech View Post
    That's a good point, I didn't realize students have metal detector wands to check each teacher to see which staff members were armed. When your walking down the street you can pin point who is carrying a concealed weapon?



    Your the first person I've heard mention turning teachers into a malitia, but teachers carrying concealed weapons is already in place in some places.

    Teachers can carry concealed weapons in tiny Texas town | Fox News
    I can't tell by looking at someone walking down the street but when I worked at my last office that allowed concealed weapons it only took me a week or two to figure out who was packing concealed weapons. In these situations you are talking about long exposures to people in a closer setting than someone walking down the street. All it takes is one incident where a student see's the gun then they talk and the whole school knows. This isn't rocket surgery after all. Boot/ankle holsters seem to be the hardest to detect but then they would need to be right next to the shooter to hit them with a snub nose revolver.

  37. #337
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    Ok, I'm sorry I've offended everyone here.

    I guess I just can't comprehend why the solution to gun violence is more guns? It just seems like madness; do you really want your children to go to school and witness a shootout? Would they have PTSD? I have guns for sport only (mostly old inherited stuff), so they're all locked up with trigger locks in the attic.

    I think a big of safety is perception - I lived in one of the most crime ridden areas of San Jose for 10 years and still never loaded a gun once.

  38. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrippledOld Guy View Post
    I'm just curious, is there any aspect of anyone's life that your not superior? You belittle where people live, their euducation level, and even where they shop/work, and all this in one paragraph! Someday I want to be you... No one said, EVER
    I'm especially sorry for insulting your town. I also shouldn't have stereotyped anyone. See, I have a few relatives that are uneducated racist NRA zeolites and I've had to listen to too much of their black helicopter talk ... it can distort one's view.

  39. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Ok, I'm sorry I've offended everyone here.

    I guess I just can't comprehend why the solution to gun violence is more guns? It just seems like madness; do you really want your children to go to school and witness a shootout? Would they have PTSD? I have guns for sport only (mostly old inherited stuff), so they're all locked up with trigger locks in the attic.

    I think a big of safety is perception - I lived in one of the most crime ridden areas of San Jose for 10 years and still never loaded a gun once.
    I don't really think that the most solid solution is more guns either but I certainly don't think that taking them away from the law abiding is. I honestly don't really think it has much to do with guns at all because there is not a solution involving gun control or bans that would cure these mass killings. Our society needs to take a deeper look at mental health, the causes and possible fixes.

    For you to basically call every gun owner a mentally deficient redneck certainly doesn't give any strength to your opinion. And what you consider to be sensible guns is completely your biased opinion. If you spent $2000 bucks on your mountain bike, I could easily say that is not sensible because I could do the same thing on my $700 bike. Just sayin'

  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadie scum View Post
    I'd be ashamed to continue refering to a magazine as a "clip". Your noobness in weaponry is self evident. Please educate yourself before reffering to others lack of, Hypocrite.
    Give it a break, clip is often used in referring to a magazine. Just google it and see. Yes technically there is a difference. So what?

    Example
    Ammunition Sales Soar Amid Massacres As Big Clip Bans Languish

  41. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I guess I just can't comprehend why the solution to gun violence is more guns? It just seems like madness; do you really want your children to go to school and witness a shootout? Would they have PTSD?
    I would rather have children witness a shoot out than witness a defenseless massacre of there schoolmates.

    All of these mass shootings tend to happen in gun free zones because it literally makes victims fish in a barrel.

    The counter argument is always have you been in a shoot out? How do you know what you'd do in that situation under those conditions? How do you know your going to put down the other shooter? ect. ect. ect. All of which are valid points but nobody seems to want to consider those points are still valid for the killer as well. If you start firing on him how do you know he wont freeze, how do you know he's gonna kill the defenders, how do you know how he's going to react to a shootout? They are all risks and variables but I will take those odds over laying on the ground defenseless while the shooter picks off person after person uncontested for what must seem like a lifetime until law enforcement finally shows up. Being armed wont stop the violence, it may help deter it (again people go to where guns aren't aloud because there's no opposition) but it's not a solution, it's just a way to give victims a fighting chance as opposed to telling them to be sitting ducks and hope for the best.

  42. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poe4soul View Post
    Give it a break, clip is often used in referring to a magazine. Just google it and see. Yes technically there is a difference. So what?

    Example
    Ammunition Sales Soar Amid Massacres As Big Clip Bans Languish
    He is right, it is a magazine but ... semantics. Media often uses gun lingo inaccurately, compounding the problem.

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    My personal belief for a "solution" is a licensing system similar to the Concealed Carry requirements in that it's a mandatory class that covers safe loading and unloading, laws, an FBI background check, state police background check, supplying finger print cards to the FBI and State Police, ect. I think they should make it mandatory to take a handgun and/or riffle course before buying that respective item. Teach people safe storage so they don't throw them upstairs and act like a trigger lock that someone can cut off after they steal an armful of guns is "safe". Mandatory parent/child safety class for households with firearms. You can't get in a car without a licence and proving skills/knowledge, make owning weapons the same way. The more educated the person is on firearms the less likely the weapons are to fall into the wrong hands or end up being misused.

    Obviously mental health services need to be improved, I'd maybe even go as far as yearly mental health screenings for gun owners until age 30 (16-30 is when schizophrenia usually shows up) if they can come up with a way to fund it.

    There are a lot of things that can be done to help but I do not feel like an assault weapons ban based on how a gun looks or limiting to small capacity mags that you can quickly and easily swap out is not going to do a damn thing for reducing the violence.

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    That's not bad Ryan and I think most responsible and sensible gun owners wouldn't mind going through a one time program like that. But.... the criminals and thugs aren't going to do it and they will still get their guns. The primary benefit I see in it is that legal gun owners are more responsible gun owners.

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    I took a handgun training class and bought a safe before buying my first gun because I felt it was good idea.

    It would limit is people with mental disorders, criminal backgrounds, (both of which happen now) and idiots who have no idea how to safely use and store a gun from getting guns. A lot of guns in the hands of criminals are stolen, you educate people more and they will get stolen less. Put you wont have situations like school shooting where someone with mental problems will have access to a family members firearms.

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    Speaking of mental health being a big part of the problem....

    This makes me sick, this kid has made threats to bring a gun to school and shoot people twice in the past couple weeks, but when someone reported it they said "after talking with the principal he did not think the principal took the matter seriously, telling him that students were taking finals this week."

    Gun Threat at Lowpoint-Washburn High School | WEEK News 25 - News, Sports, Weather - Peoria, Illinois | home


    When that kid follows through with his threat and shoots the place up it's going to be semi automatic weapons and high capacity magazines to blame right?

  47. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan The VW Tech View Post
    Speaking of mental health being a big part of the problem....

    This makes me sick, this kid has made threats to bring a gun to school and shoot people twice in the past couple weeks, but when someone reported it they said "after talking with the principal he did not think the principal took the matter seriously, telling him that students were taking finals this week."

    Gun Threat at Lowpoint-Washburn High School | WEEK News 25 - News, Sports, Weather - Peoria, Illinois | home


    When that kid follows through with his threat and shoots the place up it's going to be semi automatic weapons and high capacity magazines to blame right?

    You still fail to answer the easy question. If you had to oppose a shooter, would you want him to have to reload every 10 shots. Obviously the answer is yes. I understand there are many of these clips, yes I know they are technically magazines, out in the world. They will break over time and there won't be an abundance to buy them on the black markets to the average joe.

    Banning a gun based on appearance and not performance criteria is obtuse.

  48. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Boguss View Post
    I just heard on the radio reporting that there is some discussion about arming teachers, so this scenario has gone viral now...

    But personally speaking, I know some teachers that definitely should not be allowed to own a firearm...

    But then again, this concept could have a peripheral benefits and solve another serious problem in inner city classrooms, because an armed society is a polite society.

    I'll bet a lot of these geniuses would be much better behaved if they knew their teachers were packin' heat...just sayin...
    It is a sad testament to our society when we have to arm the teachers. In a perfect world, there would be no violence and no need to worry about some monster barging in and shooting up the class.

    And yes, I know when I was in school - I could attest that I did have some teachers I probably wouldn't trust with a firearm....LOL.

    But we live in an evil world and there are evil people - we have been studying the human mind for quite some time and still haven't even started to figure out the complexity of it - probably never will.
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  49. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poe4soul View Post
    You still fail to answer the easy question. If you had to oppose a shooter, would you want him to have to reload every 10 shots. Obviously the answer is yes. I understand there are many of these clips, yes I know they are technically magazines, out in the world. They will break over time and there won't be an abundance to buy them on the black markets to the average joe.

    Banning a gun based on appearance and not performance criteria is obtuse.
    Yes, I would want any advantage I could get. I would actually prefer that he used a musket loader. That doesn't mean that I want to limit everyone in the U.S. to only being able to use a musket loader.

  50. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by shagster View Post
    He is right, it is a magazine but ... semantics. Media often uses gun lingo inaccurately, compounding the problem.
    Then you better tell Cabela's because they, like most every other person, uses the terms interchangeably.

    Here's an example.

    Target shooters and varmint hunters can never have too many clips for their 10/22. Now is your chance to stock up on factory replacement clips. These 10-round magazines are the same as those that come with your rifle. Per pair.

  51. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Was the methodology bad? Maybe it was wrong, maybe not. I think Mittens can still win Ohio Mr. Rove, really ...
    Statistics 101 - Statistics don't prove anything. That is pretty much in front of the book you have in college stats.

    I can get any stat I wish to get to back up any argument I wish to make - just have to sample where I know I will get the stats in my favor.

    If I go and interview 100 people in rural Alabama - I will probably get a better stat in support of the 2nd amendment than if I went to downtown Boston on a college campus and interviewed 100 people.

    All the media throws stats around - but you really don't know how they gathered them and we know they all have an agenda so you cannot trust them.
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  52. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by shagster View Post
    Yes, I would want any advantage I could get. I would actually prefer that he used a musket loader. That doesn't mean that I want to limit everyone in the U.S. to only being able to use a musket loader.
    X2

    But if I was in a small room with 30 large targets it would not make any bit of difference to me if I used 1 or 3 magazines to hit all the stationary targets (they tell people to lay downs dn hide / duck and cover).

    Smaller mags wont save lives. I have higher capacity mags because of the shooting/target range charges by time. I'd rather spend the time I'm paying for shooting than reloading mags. If I have 3 30 rounds mags I can shoot for a while and then reload them when my arms get tired, if I have 3 10 round mags I take a few shots then reload, take a few shots then reload or spend a bunch of money to buy a bunch of mags to load up and go through. And let me be clear when I say reload I don't need mean the half a second it takes to drop a mag and pop in a new one, I mean physically reloading the individual magazines. (Hopefully I explained that right, I'm typing this post from a cell phone)

  53. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poe4soul View Post
    Then you better tell Cabela's because they, like most every other person, uses the terms interchangeably.

    Here's an example.

    Target shooters and varmint hunters can never have too many clips for their 10/22. Now is your chance to stock up on factory replacement clips. These 10-round magazines are the same as those that come with your rifle. Per pair.
    I was right about at least one thing! I have the 10/22, maybe I saw that on the package. My "clips" are 10 shot.

  54. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Sorry, I don't have semi auto weapons or gears ... only bolt and lever action. How am I hypocritical?

    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I was right about at least one thing! I have the 10/22, maybe I saw that on the package. My "clips" are 10 shot.

  55. #355
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    I am pro arming teachers, especially in the times we currently live. Have we forgotten how vulnerable we really are? Do we need this to happen in America before we wise up? God forbid it ever happen.

    Beslan school hostage crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  56. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawson Raider View Post
    Statistics 101 - Statistics don't prove anything. That is pretty much in front of the book you have in college stats.

    I can get any stat I wish to get to back up any argument I wish to make - just have to sample where I know I will get the stats in my favor.

    If I go and interview 100 people in rural Alabama - I will probably get a better stat in support of the 2nd amendment than if I went to downtown Boston on a college campus and interviewed 100 people.

    All the media throws stats around - but you really don't know how they gathered them and we know they all have an agenda so you cannot trust them.
    It's of course just one poll and perhaps the methodology is bad, but sooner or later the tide will turn and we'll get more gun control - too much I'd fear, as the pendulum usually goes too far when it swings. Many city people don't have experience with guns and often hate them for no real good reason. As the population continues to move to cities, more control is baked in the cake.

  57. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Boguss View Post
    On the other side of that...

    If you only have one shot...just make it count...

    If you've put in enough practice the objective is to hit what you're aiming at.

    If we really get down to it though, strategy is more important than weapon choice.

    It's the archer...not the arrow...
    Just like my great grandpa did for hunting deer - he never missed either. If you do work for the NRA, you'll be fired as you just made the best argument around against 30 round magazines.

  58. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Boguss View Post
    Our world is far from being a Utopia, so that's why being armed is a prudent choice.

    I actually had the privilege of going to school before the federal government usurped the educational system, so 99% of my teachers were dedicated professionals whose decisions I would trust.

    When I look back, I am still impressed by their capabilities, and how much I learned just by being in their presence. I am truly grateful for the education they gave me.

    Sadly, things are different today, but it only takes one determined and capable individual, who is prepared, to stand face-to-face with imminent evil to stop it dead in it's tracks...literally!

    One should never bet against the quiet resolve of that silent majority of US citizens...they are still out there, quietly armed and protecting everyone's rights as they shoulder the responsibility to create a decent society against the media propaganda barrage that screams at everyone to surrender their rights and destiny to governmental authority.

    I think that takes a lot of personal courage and initiative.

    So...no thanks, Obuma.
    +100% on that!

  59. #359
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    Not man enough? Buy a gun.

    And if you're anxious about your masculinity, if you aren't quite sure whether those around you find you sufficiently strong and potent, the Bushmaster corporation has an answer for you.

    That "responsible gun owner" politicians talk about, the one who reverentially passes down to his son the bolt-action rifle his father gave him? That guy isn't good for business. The manufacturers need the other guy, the one who fears he may not be all the man he could be.

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/20/opinio...ood/index.html
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Tragedy and Mountain Biking.-imageuploadedbytapatalk1356037039.336495.jpg  

    Tragedy and Mountain Biking.-imageuploadedbytapatalk1356037053.974772.jpg  


  60. #360
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    Criminals will always have guns and commit crimes, no matter what laws are enacted!!

    People die in cars and use cars to kill people. Are we going to ban cars? Or put a restriction on what type of car you can buy?

  61. #361
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    Too many of you have inhaled too much lead. Wake up, the days of guns in the streets are done. The number of stupid posts in this thread is staggering. Scandinavian countries safe despite liberal gun laws - who's got the short memory? Military grade weapons and magazines making the world safer? Closing all schools to home school if guns are banned - genius - removing social interaction should assure well-adjusted adults. No problem, because they will have guns to express themselves!!

    God save America? Might be your best chance before you flush yourselves down the dunny.

  62. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post

    People die in cars and use cars to kill people. Are we going to ban cars? Or put a restriction on what type of car you can buy?
    We have tons of regulations on cars, many of which deal with safety. The government and other groups conduct crash tests and certain unsafe cars and trucks are banned.

    When was last time someone drove a car into a school and killed 26 people?

  63. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise View Post
    Too many of you have inhaled too much lead. Wake up, the days of guns in the streets are done. The number of stupid posts in this thread is staggering. Scandinavian countries safe despite liberal gun laws - who's got the short memory? Military grade weapons and magazines making the world safer? Closing all schools to home school if guns are banned - genius - removing social interaction should assure well-adjusted adults. No problem, because they will have guns to express themselves!!

    God save America? Might be your best chance before you flush yourselves down the dunny.
    It is quite staggering isn't it? The Bushmaster thing says it all, and the notion of a quiet, responsible and heavily-armed population lurking in the shadows just waiting to make the world a safer place just beggars belief!
    Sadly, the days of guns in the streets are quite possibly not done.
    It's all Here. Now.

  64. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Boguss View Post
    There are plenty of guns in the streets...even the Dems agree with that...far too many, they say...the point they are missing is who has them in their pocket.




    But I do agree with that...
    This was, inevitably, going to be a political thread. And, against all the rules, the mods have allowed it to go ahead because it's of such pressing and painful current interest. For this they should be commended.

    What it wasn't, before you joined as a shill for the NRA, was party political. You've done nothing but cut and paste pro-gun, anti-Democrat talking points. What's the plan? Get it binned so you can piss off to some other forum and stop pretending you're a mountain biker?

  65. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by shagster View Post
    Yes, I would want any advantage I could get. I would actually prefer that he used a musket loader. That doesn't mean that I want to limit everyone in the U.S. to only being able to use a musket loader.
    Then we are back to the grenade/rocket launcher argument. There are already limitations on what you can buy. How is limiting the size of a clip going to affect the enjoyment/protection aspect of owning a gun? Seriously, you guys are so dug in on gun ownership and rights thereof that a logical discussion of simple things that could make a difference, like limiting the size of the magazine, is so difficult, it's obtuse. I sure hope the NRA makes a compelling argument for you guys.

  66. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Boguss View Post
    Not sure what the last time was, but the video I posted was about the Luby's shooting years back where the guy drove a car into a restaurant and then got out and started shooting people...

    That's pretty crazy...like something right out of a Terminator movie..can you imagine being in a situation like that...?

    That gal was...her parents were killed...

    More recently a guy in LA took out a farmers market...

    So yes, there is a lot of intentional mayhem committed by cars, it's just so common it's not newsworthy, and after all, the government, (ie., oil companies) don't want to dis-courage driving cars.
    It was Santa Monica where a senior citizen accidentally drove through their very nice farmer's market - it was not a planned attack however. Cars do cause a lot of problems, therefore the heavy regulations. Remember you need to pass a test and get licensed to buy a car ... much more work than buying a gun I might.

    You guys that don't want any regulations on guns, would be well served by never mentioning cars - they might just be the most regulated product made!

  67. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Boguss View Post
    And the media characterizes gun owners as paranoid and delusional...

    If you think I am cutting and pasting, I will take that as a compliment that you think so highly of my writing skills...

    I am just a MTBer that happens to be a gun owner.

    It just happens to be my passion for personal freedoms that attracts me to both, and they are related; consider that the next time you want to ride in a Wildneress area.

    I don't see what's so hard for you to comprehend that I might actually believe what I am saying, but don't think it is so easy to dismiss my "talking points" by calling me names...try backing up your arguments with some well thought out facts.

    If you don't agree with me that's fine, but your name calling has nothing to do with politics...that's all on you pal...
    You really needed a post history about noisy brakes or the like to not appear as a NRA employee. I've spent weeks on end every summer rambling around the wilderness and never even once considered bringing a gun, by the way.

  68. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    It was Santa Monica where a senior citizen accidentally drove through their very nice farmer's market - it was not a planned attack however. Cars do cause a lot of problems, therefore the heavy regulations. Remember you need to pass a test and get licensed to buy a car ... much more work than buying a gun I might.

    You guys that don't want any regulations on guns, would be well served by never mentioning cars - they might just be the most regulated product made!
    The "why not cars?" approach is just a means to dodge the actual conversation. I'm an avid gun owner/enthusiast; instead of clinging to our rights and dodging the problem I would like to see the pro-gun crowd give some of these topics legitimate thought and consideration.
    Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. ~Mark Twain

  69. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridnparadise View Post
    Wake up, the days of guns in the streets are done.
    Just the opposite. People are buying guns in record numbers!

    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    We have tons of regulations on cars, many of which deal with safety. The government and other groups conduct crash tests and certain unsafe cars and trucks are banned.

    When was last time someone drove a car into a school and killed 26 people?
    Way more people are killed because of cars, compared to the number of people murdered by someone using a gun.

  70. #370
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    In case anyone's wondering why the NRA would dedicate a shill to this forum, it ranks as number 141 in the list of largest English language boards on the internet. The vast majority of sites above it would have no interest in a thread about gun control, we have lots. This makes us a prime candidate for their propaganda.

    What do you think they spend all that blood money they get from the internal arms trade on? Perverting elected officials and journalists?

  71. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judd97 View Post
    The "why not cars?" approach is just a means to dodge the actual conversation. I'm an avid gun owner/enthusiast; instead of clinging to our rights and dodging the problem I would like to see the pro-gun crowd give some of these topics legitimate thought and consideration.
    You're very wise. If the NRA is smart, they'll join you and help write the laws and be part of the solution. I want my two sons to be able to own guns when they grow up; but, if anti gun folks write all the laws that may not be the case.

  72. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    You really needed a post history about noisy brakes or the like to not appear as a NRA employee. I've spent weeks on end every summer rambling around the wilderness and never even once considered bringing a gun, by the way.
    I bring one all the time. Most of the time while I'm riding my mountain bike. I'd have a couple dead dogs if it wasn't for my gun. There also would be more dead people if they didn't have a gun in the wilderness to protect themselves. Iv'e only been in one situation where I had to protect myself against an animal, and once against a person. I'm glad I had my gun both times!

  73. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    I bring one all the time. Most of the time while I'm riding my mountain bike. I'd have a couple dead dogs if it wasn't for my gun. There also would be more dead people if they didn't have a gun in the wilderness to protect themselves.
    Where do you go?

  74. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Just the opposite. People are buying guns in record numbers!



    Way more people are killed because of cars, compared to the number of people murdered by someone using a gun.
    Way more people are in and using cars on a regular basis. Duh. Even a 16 year old can get a licence and drive a car.

  75. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Way more people are killed because of cars, compared to the number of people murdered by someone using a gun.

    Gun deaths to exceed car accident fatalities in 2015

  76. #376
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    IIrc, both food from Mcdonalds and physicians are responsible for more deaths per annum in America every year. What shall be done about it?

  77. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    You're very wise. If the NRA is smart, they'll join you and help write the laws and be part of the solution. I want my two sons to be able to own guns when they grow up; but, if anti gun folks write all the laws that may not be the case.
    Exactly - I'd rather compromise than capitulate.

    It's a shame though. I've grown up with guns and was taught how to enjoy them safely. Bottom line is shooting is fun. A lot of fun. It's a shame that because of the nutjobs of this world, we law-abiding gun enthusiasts may have to sacrifice something we enjoy. But that being said, I'd rather sacrifice the ability to own, for example, a hi-cap magazine if it will potentially prevent large amounts of people from having to sacrifice their health or their lives.

    Whether or not it actually will prevent it, though, I have no idea
    Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. ~Mark Twain

  78. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Boguss View Post
    Sure...like someone said..."just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean that someone ain't trying to shill ya...?"
    If you're not shilling for them you should get in touch, you could be on a nice little earner. If they're not shilling us they're not doing their job.

  79. #379
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    You bet me to it!

    Only 32 percent of American's own guns now. How many people own cars? Do we care to guess which one gets banned first?

  80. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judd97 View Post
    Exactly - I'd rather compromise than capitulate.

    It's a shame though. I've grown up with guns and was taught how to enjoy them safely. Bottom line is shooting is fun. A lot of fun. It's a shame that because of the nutjobs of this world, we law-abiding gun enthusiasts may have to sacrifice something we enjoy. But that being said, I'd rather sacrifice the ability to own, for example, a hi-cap magazine if it will potentially prevent large amounts of people from having to sacrifice their health or their lives.

    Whether or not it actually will prevent it, though, I have no idea
    I agree 100 percent. In a perfect world we would never need any regulations.

  81. #381
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    Cars vs. Guns? What kind of argument is that? Cars do actually serve a useful purpose in everyday life. As in fact do motorcycles, mountain bikes, road bikes (gasp!), and many people! Guns, however... hmmm... I still don't get it, even after all the 'reasoned debate' in here
    As many have pointed out, this is an imperfect world filled with imperfect people, all of us included. Some, however, are somewhat more imperfect than others. These people need help. If we learned to treat our fellow beings with love, compassion and understanding, preferably not from the user end of a gun, we would most probably not be having these 'discussions' at all. Education is key in all of this, teaching and learning an ethical set of values, not based in fear and paranoia. I would hazard a guess that educators packing heat may find some difficulty living and disseminating this dream.
    A Utopian dream on my part? Possibly, but infinitely preferable in my view to any alternative dream proposed here so far, at least in my opinion. The human race never got anywhere good without reaching for what might seem unattainable at first.
    It's all Here. Now.

  82. #382
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    That's wrong. Do some searches. Over three times the amount of people are killed in car accidents, compared to the number of people killed by some one using a gun. I don't see that changing that much in a couple years. That also doesn't take into account the number of people that are murdered by someone using a car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poe4soul View Post
    Then we are back to the grenade/rocket launcher argument. There are already limitations on what you can buy. How is limiting the size of a clip going to affect the enjoyment/protection aspect of owning a gun? Seriously, you guys are so dug in on gun ownership and rights thereof that a logical discussion of simple things that could make a difference, like limiting the size of the magazine, is so difficult, it's obtuse. I sure hope the NRA makes a compelling argument for you guys.
    My guns (if I had some) don't kill people, so I should be able to get higher capacity magazines, right? Higher capacity magazines = less time spent loading, which translates to more time shooting, in turn meaning more time spent on the fun part. I love the car comparison. If you liked fast cars but some guy drove through a crowd of local bikes at 150 MPH, thus leading to regulations limiting the speed of your car to 55, would you eat it and smile?

    I am all for logical discussion but a couple of folks seem to like slinging insults... Apparently, if you own a gun, you are not a real man, a redneck, less intelligent, etc..

  84. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Where do you go?
    I have a few thousand acres of private land to ride on, in So Cal. And, I also ride a lot on public land. I started carrying a gun after being chased by a couple of bros in a truck, down a public canyon road.

  85. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    I have a few thousand acres of private land to ride on, in So Cal. And, I also ride a lot on public land. I started carrying a gun after being chased by a couple of bros in a truck, down a public canyon road.
    I'd carry in that case too. Stay safe.

  86. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Boguss View Post
    Actually, it's funny that, due to your accusations, I was just thinking the same thing...

    Your sort of back handed compliment of the quality of my rhetoric in making these arguments, and in thinking that I must be a paid political lobbyist makes me think that I should do just that.

    I can understand your concern, however, when a new guy with a low post count suddenly pops up and expresses an opinion, and I can see where this could happen a lot here from paid salesman from the various bike product brands...it's easy to spot that isn't it?

    Airborne, for example, makes no bones about the "Airborne Flight Crew" or whatever they call them...bloggers that they have given free bikes to..but hey...that's marketing.

    I just wanted to point out to you that I have taken the time to tell you personally that I am not a political operative, or shill, but that my ideas are my own and I just present them here that they might stand on their own merit. I agree with you that it's kind of an off-topic for a bike forum, but it seems that a lot of folks want to weigh in here

    I know that lots of liberal minded folks ride bikes...it's probably a mostly liberal crowd, and there's nothing wrong with that in my mind, and nothing really wrong about your comments toward me reflecting your suspicions, I just feel like expressing my ideas as well.

    I don't expect agreement with my views, because I mostly don't get much...

    I think I am regarded as having extreme viewpoints about personal freedoms that are not in vogue these days...but at least you guys know where I stand on all this.
    I said you were a shill, not a good shill, just a shill. I look forward to your considered views on how 29ers are a communist plot foisted upon a proud nation by Obama and his evil Democrats. Should be fun.

  87. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poe4soul View Post
    Then we are back to the grenade/rocket launcher argument. There are already limitations on what you can buy. How is limiting the size of a clip going to affect the enjoyment/protection aspect of owning a gun? Seriously, you guys are so dug in on gun ownership and rights thereof that a logical discussion of simple things that could make a difference, like limiting the size of the magazine, is so difficult, it's obtuse. I sure hope the NRA makes a compelling argument for you guys.
    The problem is that THE MAN keeps taking more and more of our rights away. Where is it going to stop. Wait until THE MAN screws up the new health care thing. They'll have us driving in cars with helmets on because the health care is going broke. A little exaggeration on my part, but I hope you get the point.

    There are already enough gun laws, we don't need any more. This guys mother is as much to blame as he is. Her guns should have been locked away and the ammo locked away in a separate place.

  88. #388
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    Why Not Renew the “Assault Weapons” Ban? Well, I’ll Tell You… « Kontradictions

    That article lays out some of the key arguments of the Pro-Gun side in a very easy to read manner. Maybe it'll help clear some of the air (or maybe not, who knows).
    Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. ~Mark Twain

  89. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    There are already enough gun laws, we don't need any more. This guys mother is as much to blame as he is. Her guns should have been locked away and the ammo locked away in a separate place.
    Which just proves the point that even a respectable member of a community as she was, just shouldn't be allowed to have these type weapons for the greater good of everyone plain and simple.
    Round and round we go

  90. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Which just proves the point that even a respectable member of a community as she was, just shouldn't be allowed to have these type weapons for the greater good of everyone plain and simple.
    The problem was, she wasn't acting respectable or responsible. Especially with the condition her son had.

    So, when some one kills while drunk driving, are we going to outlaw cars? Or make everyone take a breath-a-lizer test before driving. I don't think so.

    I say, if someone is convicted of murder, they should be executed the next day. Murders would drop like falling off a cliff.
    Last edited by Mountain Cycle Shawn; 12-20-2012 at 07:25 PM.

  91. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    The problem was, she wasn't acting respectable or responsible. Especially with the condition her son had.

    So, when some one kills while drunk driving, are we going to outlaw cars? Or make everyone take a breath-a-lizer test before driving. I don't think so.

    I saw, if someone is convicted of murder, they should be executed the next day. Murders would drop like falling off a cliff.
    It's clear on all these threads that no one is changing their position no matter how clever an argument is presented. It's also clear that no arrangement will make both sides happy.
    I would think that a gun advocate would embrace any way possible to make ownership possible, especially given the current route of where that possibility is going.
    I don't think gun control is the only cure or remedy to help stop instances like this, but ?
    I agree with you about the car analogy/comparison, and I also think guns serve a purpose and have a use that shouldn't be ignored. That's why I think guns, like cars, should require a test to use them, and insurance.
    Round and round we go

  92. #392
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    So, if anyone has a small part of their brains left, take a look at how you might be able to start to make a small change. Get your voice heard at least:

    https://www.change.org/campaigns/con...kdK_gdqBRZVDqJ

    I just heard a pastor claim that it was OK by his church for someone to use deadly force to protect oneself or one's neighbor. Does that not rather contradict what Jesus is supposed to have said when a disciple tried to help him by brandishing his sword as he was taken by the Romans, and exhorted him to put down his sword?!? "for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword"
    Just putting that out there to those gun totin' religious nutjobs! Pretty sure there's none here tho...
    It's all Here. Now.

  93. #393
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    Fcuk change.org Flame away.

  94. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Boguss View Post
    Your buddy Obunka is a GREAT shill...he can cry fake tears while making subdued promises to further the globalist agenda of his international corporate bosses over the still warm bodies of murdered children...all according to the plan.

    Now giving credit where credit is due...that's a great shillin job, and you're right...compared to him...I don't even rise to the level of good.

    But I don't recall where you have contributed anything of substance to this discussion outside of your unfounded accusations, but in the spirit of your mindset, if you're saying they're not a Commie plot...where do you think 29ers are made genius...yep Red China.
    That was seriously funny, but sadly, so true!
    Last edited by Mountain Cycle Shawn; 12-20-2012 at 07:27 PM.

  95. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    So, if anyone has a small part of their brains left, take a look at how you might be able to start to make a small change. Get your voice heard at least:

    https://www.change.org/campaigns/con...kdK_gdqBRZVDqJ

    I just heard a pastor claim that it was OK by his church for someone to use deadly force to protect oneself or one's neighbor. Does that not rather contradict what Jesus is supposed to have said when a disciple tried to help him by brandishing his sword as he was taken by the Romans, and exhorted him to put down his sword?!? "for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword"
    Just putting that out there to those gun totin' religious nutjobs! Pretty sure there's none here tho...



    Yeah, thats what you'd have to have to sign up there, a small brain. Keep chugging the koolaid.

  96. #396
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    change.org Don't they get their marching orders from Emperor Osama?

  97. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance Strongarm View Post
    change.org Don't they get their marching orders from Emperor Osama?


    Him and the UN. Nothing they would like more than to disarm this country so they could exercise a complete takeover. Thats the objective, disarm everyone so that they can enslave them.

  98. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Fcuk change.org Flame away.
    Hey, you said you where humbly bowing out of this discussion, what are you doing back
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  99. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Hey, you said you where humbly bowing out of this discussion, what are you doing back



    Fcuk this thread, it should have never been brought o the OC.

  100. #400
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    Unfuuckingbelievable.........

    Many family's will not be having a happy holiday, and will never recover from this event.
    Christmas is 6 days away, and many of you have gone there ---> totally O.O.B.
    To rant about politics, gun control, ccw, and worse.
    Many of you should be ashamed of your posts, and myopic viewpoints.
    Please give some respect, tis the season.

    Peace on earth goodwill towards man.

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